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A weekly show from the folks at East Lansing Info breaking down all the news and happenings in East Lansing, Michigan.
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of East Lansing Insider. I'm East Lansing Info's deputy editor, Anna Liz Nichols, and today's episode is going to kind of continue the conversation we had last week concerning the incident in East Lansing where a video circulating social media shows an East Lansing police department officer punching a 20 year old black woman who has her arms restrained behind her back. The video, like we said last week, has caused a stir in the city as this is the latest incident in a string of occurrences in the last year where police use of force in East Lansing has been called into question. This past week on Tuesday, East Lansing City Council met for their regularly scheduled meeting. And though they had a fairly dense agenda in front of them, a good portion of the meeting, about two hours worth, was dedicated to members of the public sharing their thoughts, concerns, and fears about the recent police incident with the city council.
Anna Liz Nichols:Before Tuesday, the city had not said much about the incident. Soon after the video gained some momentum online, the city put out a statement saying that it was an incomplete video, and there was more to the story. And the East Lansing Police Department would be interested in talking to anyone who has additional information about the incident and that an officer involved in the incident had been put on paid leave. But on Tuesday, all members of city council except for mayor Erik Altmann gave fairly lengthy responses to the deluge of criticisms the city received during that public comment portion of the meeting. There are a couple aims of East Lansing Insider for us here at East Lansing Info, and one of those aims is to spotlight conversations already happening in the city.
Anna Liz Nichols:And this video has been an overwhelming conversation topic in East Lansing. Out of all the strifes between the public and the city over policing and law enforcement and what public safety looks like, this has probably been the most open and lengthy public discussion I've seen in the last year. And so I thought for this week, we could just take a look at what citizens are saying in terms of the betrayals they feel they have suffered at the hands of city government and law enforcement and what city leaders are saying about where we go from here and what their hopes are for public safety. A lot was said at Tuesday night's city council meeting, and so I have some excerpts from both members of the public and elected officials that I thought would be good to share with listeners who maybe didn't have the opportunity to come to the city council meeting this week. One of the first speakers was NAACP Lansing branch president James McCurtis junior, who discussed what he sees as failures of the East Lansing police department, both now with the treatment of the 20 year old black woman who was punched, Myana Collins, but also the treatment of two black men almost a year ago who were pepper sprayed and arrested for fighting.
Anna Liz Nichols:Only for it to be later revealed from security footage from a business where the incident took place that one of the men had actually interceded in that dispute. Another incident McCurtis brings up, is the fatal police shooting of a 21 year old black man where some community members believe less lethal course of action was possible. Here's what McCurtis had to say to city council.
James McCurtis:Good evening, everyone. My name is James McCurtis, president of the NAACP Lansing branch. Thank god for the video. Young lady was on the ground, young black woman on the ground face down, legs bent, screaming in pain. She was detained.
James McCurtis:She was punched several times, taken to jail, hit her head, taken to the hospital, and then released. She, to my knowledge, wasn't even charged. Basically, she was beaten and then sent home. Now would this have happened to a blonde haired young white woman? In two weeks, it'll be a year since welcome week, a year since the pepper spraying, a year since police chief Jennifer Brown said minorities come to East Lansing to commit crimes.
James McCurtis:A few months ago, the Human Rights Commission report about excessive force came out about how there's a disproportionate number of excessive force used against black people. A few months ago, since the city council a few months ago, the city council has stripped power from the Human Rights Commission. A few months ago, Isaiah Kirby was shot and killed after he was detained. And I was sat in a meeting with the Kirby family, with the city attorney who's to my left, who used language toward the mother and the family that was appalling. And to speak to a mother whose son was just killed by the police and you representing the city as the attorney using that kind of language.
James McCurtis:To me, it sort of makes sense how East Lansing treat black people. It's all clear. It is a clear message that has been sent to the citizens of East Lansing, the Greater Lansing Greater Lansing area, black people around, black and brown people here, all allies. East Lansing wants it this way. East Lansing hasn't done anything, not one thing to stop what has been going on with black and brown people, the excessive force that has been used.
James McCurtis:It's been on video. And not only was this young lady put on the ground face down, knees bent, and beaten, she was exposed, and the police didn't do anything about it. They didn't do anything to try to cover her up. They just let her be exposed. I will say this.
James McCurtis:If dogs were treated the same way, Jennifer Brown would have been fired. And that's a shame that I have to say that, but it's the truth, and it's appalling. It's appalling that chief Jennifer Brown still has her position. It's appalling that this culture of excessive force and and pattern of racism is still going on within the East Lansing Police Department. It's appalling that the attorneys telling council members not to speak out, not to say anything.
James McCurtis:Council members work for us. They don't work for the city attorney. They work for us. They work for the people of East Lansing. And you're told to be quiet.
James McCurtis:Don't say anything. There is going to be litigation. There's gonna be litigation anyway. There's gonna be lawsuits anyway because of the way that you treat black and brown people. Two weeks from now, it's welcome week.
James McCurtis:How are you gonna treat the students that come in?
Anna Liz Nichols:My Anna Collins' mother, Shannon, also directly addressed council. She was joined at the podium by the mother of one of the young men from the pepper spray incident we mentioned before. Her name is Nadia Sellers, she and has been attending city council meetings calling for the removal of ELPD police chief Jen Brown for about a year now. But in terms of how this incident has impacted her family, here's what Shannon had to say to council.
Shannon:Hello. My name is Shannon, and I am the mother of Mayana Collins. I'm not a we all watched the video. We all seen my daughter, tased, handcuffed, restrained by multiple officers and then told to shut up while she was screaming, terrified for her life, and then punched repeatedly by an officer who is supposed to protect and serve while lying helpless on the ground, face down again, hands restrained by a zip tie, it appears, me and her back. Panicked.
Shannon:This has been very traumatic for both my daughter and my family, my friends, many of those who are here tonight to support me and my daughter. This is an issue that continues to be swept under the rug, specifically in East Lansing and all across The United States, obviously. But we've seen it with our own eyes, and we want answers. We want everybody camera recording from every officer involved. We want to know why this level of force was used against a restrained young black woman who needed help and not extreme excessive force that anyone else would be charged with assault and battery for.
Shannon:And I know for a fact, if this was a young woman that looked like me or blonde, whatever, white, this wouldn't have happened. She would have been met with compassion. So it's, you know, it's just not about my daughter. It's about accountability. We're asking this council to demand transparency, independent oversight, and accountability, not just in my daughter's case, but in every case where excessive force is used, particularly against black and brown people, is there is clearly a repetitive pattern of racism that is clearly not being addressed by your police chief or so called chief.
Shannon:Policies must be enforced. Officers who violate them must be held accountable. Our family deserves answers. This community deserves honesty, and every resident regardless of the color of their skin deserves to know that those sworn to protect will be held accountable when they abuse that power and that they are safe in this community. Thank you.
Anna Liz Nichols:There were a host of other people who spoke at Tuesday's meeting, mothers of black children who say they fear for what could happen to their kids if they have an interaction with police. Several individuals in education related fields asserted that East Lansing, which homes Michigan State University, ought to be the safest place for young people to be as individuals from all backgrounds gather at the institution as this centralized symposium or maker space of new ideas. One of Tuesday's speakers, Lee June, a Greater Lansing resident of fifty two years, who spent five decades at MSU performing multiple roles, including director of the university's counseling center, addressed city council, asking what is it gonna take for them to act. Mister June is a pretty well known and respected member of the university community, which is the East Lansing community, even after retiring last year. He marched with Martin Luther King junior during the civil rights movement, also participating in the marches from Selma to Montgomery, which were prompted by law enforcement's murder of an unarmed black man during a peaceful protest.
Anna Liz Nichols:And the marches led to the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. This is what mister June had to say to city council.
Lee June:I'm here tonight because I'm just actually puzzled. Just deeply puzzled. On the one hand, you know, based on my experience and and educational background, I kinda understand what's going on. But on another level, I'm just really puzzled. I I just can't understand
Lee June:what it's gonna take for justice to be delivered.
Lee June:I'm for nonviolence direct action. Some of my colleagues are for different things. So there was Malcolm, there was Martin, there was Harriet Tubman. But, actually, it took all of them to bring about change.
Lee June:So I'm just puzzled and wondering what it's gonna take for justice to be done. Over the years, there have been many people who use this concept, but there's a legal term maximum. It's called justice delayed is justice denied. Justice delayed is justice denied. And we could go deeper than AI, but just a surface definition.
Lee June:It says a legal maximum, meaning that if a legal remedy or relief is provided too late, it loses meaning and value, effectively acting as no justice at all. Let me repeat that. If a remedy or relief is provided too late, it loses its meaning and value, effectively acting as if no justice occurred at all.
Anna Liz Nichols:City Council responded to this lengthy segment of public comment offering in total a substantial response to what folks had to say. The lengthiest response and perhaps the one that received the warmest reception, There was a bitter response from audience members throughout city council's comments, but the response to council member Chuck Grigsby was he was the best received. He is the only black man on council when it comes to these incidences of police treatment of people of color. There seems to be a lot of desire and expectation from the public that Grigsby, more than other members, should be this city voice of response, and he voiced on Tuesday his feelings of conflict over his role in the city.
Chuck Grigsby:I wanna thank the audience members for coming in and, spending their time to advocate for what justice is. And I wanna, send my condolences or held felt, emotions for miss Collin and her mother who showed up here tonight as well. I have a a pre prepared statement. I usually don't do that. I usually just speak from, what, compels me, but I think it's important for me to do this structurally, so I don't leave out or miss or misrepresent something here.
Chuck Grigsby:I will tell you that I am very, very frustrated, in regards to where we're at right now, and the lack of progress at where we need to be. I am someone that takes a lot of pride in working on behalf of justice, and this role, in the process and the policies and the things I have to adhere to make it very much more challenging to do them in ways that, I'm accustomed to. I know what I saw in the video, and I know what concerns me about the way the situation was handled. There may be other facts that matter to the prosecutor or to a formal investigation, but I do not believe I need to have every fact to speak about the conduct that is visible to me right now. The hard part has been saying this in a responsible manner, knowing the position that I hold, and being careful not to turn my assessment into charging or disciplinary decisions that are not mine to make.
Chuck Grigsby:The prosecutor has to make a charging decision. I don't know if that's been made or not or not, but however, whether miss Collins is eventually charged is not the question that matters to me. A charging decision addresses whether there is sufficient evidence that she violated the law. It does not necessarily answer to the broader questions raised by the police response shown in that video. Where the charges are filed or whether the response shown in that video raises broader questions about force, training, and policy or separate matters, the prosecutor will address these questions in their own manner.
Chuck Grigsby:Now let me get to it. I spent more than ten years as a professional fighter. So I understand leverage. I understand body positioning, and I know what it means when someone can no longer use their hands, especially when they're handcuffed. Watching miss Collins laying on the ground on her stomach with her hands cuffed behind her back leads me to a basic question.
Chuck Grigsby:What level of public safety threat did she present at that point? From my experience, once someone is restrained in that position, there should be immediate reassessment of the tactics being used and whether continued force is necessary. What concerns me is not simply how control was initially gained, but the decisions made in the length of time those tactics continued after she was handcuffed and physically vulnerable. At that point, the question should no longer be, do we have control? It should also be, what threat remains and is she okay?
Chuck Grigsby:The video raises a serious question for or excuse me. The video raises a serious concern for me about whether the response changed as the level of threat changed because I struggle to see where the reassessment occurred with what is shown and what I have. Police officers receive training and tools so they can protect themselves and the public, but training does not create an automatic requirement or automatic opportunity to use every tactic that may be permitted by policy. The fact that a tactic is authorized is not or does not end the discussions. Officer must still consider the seriousness of the threat, the level of resistance, the objective they are trying to accomplish, the alternatives available, and where the situation has changed.
Chuck Grigsby:Once control has been achieved, the focus should be moved toward maintaining safety, preventing injury, monitoring the person's condition, and bringing the encounter to a stable conclusion. Going forward, I I'm not really interested in another review that ends in the conduct was particularly allowed. I'm not really interested in that the training and the use of force or the type of force was something that is permitted. We need to be aggressively honest about what police permits, and every permitted tactic should remain available under what circumstances those tactics should be used. If our policies do not clearly require officers to reassess the threat, reduce force after control is can is achieved, and monitor a person's physical condition, then those policies needs to be changed.
Anna Liz Nichols:City Councilman Mark Meadows added during city council comments that perhaps it's time for council to take a more active role in what police policy and procedures look like given the conduit that citizens use to give their input is city council, these city council meetings rather than direct dialogue with ELPD. The conversation surrounding the video is far from over. And remember, the city said it was a partial video. So the implication is that more information is supposed to be brought to light about this. So just as local residents are anxiously awaiting more info and communication from the city, so is East Lansing info.