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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
My wife told me, like she sat me down and she was like, look at yourself. It's 97 out of a 100.
Tyler:Know? You
Nick:know? Be be happy. Let it go and and go, you know, finish that project that will make you some money instead of, you know, being stuck there and annoying for everyone around you.
Tyler:What is the like, I'm the same way, so I I have nothing to say here. But, like, in reality, what is the difference between 97 and a 100? Like, what is the the the ROI or the tangible difference between that ninety seven and one hundred? And
Nick:we're officially live. We're officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment. So,
Tyler:Nick, so the last we have some really good conversations the last, two episodes now. And we were able to kinda share each other's stories, talk about where we are now, and then, like, the story that led up to. There was a bunch of, like, overlap and some interesting kind of interesting nuggets that we kinda pulled out there. I would I would love to kind of digest have a third session if we can kind of digest a bit and seeing, like, if we can kinda talk about, like, what we learned over last those last two sessions.
Nick:Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great idea. The thing that's that's stood by me the most is that we had, you know, for the first half of our career so far, quite a bit of overlap even though that's no no longer really the case today. You know? So somewhere down the middle, there was a, like, a fork in the road and you went left, I went right.
Nick:You know? So I thought that was interesting.
Tyler:Yeah. You mentioned a lot about, like, luck, like, in your story. Do you think, like, luck was part of I think luck is part of most people's stories, or or how does someone kind of progress in their careers? Is it all about luck?
Nick:Well, for me at least, but, you know, it's luck in a sense of being in the right place at the right time. But still, you know, for you to be there, you need to to do a lot of shots. You know? You need to because I mentioned, you know, I got lucky because one person said yes while the other said no, and then the yes person had more power. So I got my first job.
Nick:But just to get to that interview before that was eight months of getting no all the time, getting ghosted and and generic rejection letters. So, yes, it's luck, but I think you also have a big say in in how much luck you get. It's almost like forced luck. I'm sure there's a saying for it. I'm yeah.
Nick:I I I think that's it. You know, you can create your own luck more or less.
Tyler:Yeah. I think, like, what's the saying? It's luck is just being prepared for the situation. Yeah. So like Yeah.
Tyler:I I
Nick:I yeah. I think that's true because, you know, I was there during the meeting, but then they still had to see something in me to even invite me. So I must have done something right to to trigger their interest. Yeah. Or maybe it's just that it felt like being lucky after eight months to finally get a job.
Nick:And maybe it was not luxe. But that I mean, maybe that's a bit too floaty. You know, that makes us maybe, you know, question everything. I'm not sure that's what we should do. But, yeah, I I think you can create your own luck.
Tyler:Yeah. I was thinking about, like, I was going over both of our stories, and I was like, I think there's something in it. There's you'd mentioned, like, the hero's journey. Like, the I think there's something in, I guess, a bright eyed bushy tailed junior where it's like, there is supposed to be this, like you mentioned as well, like, this hockey stick journey where it's like, everything is heavy path. Everything is I do this, I go to the next level next level, and then I I keep going up.
Tyler:But I think what, like, iron sharpens iron, like, the best, I think, experience is is sometimes stepping back or falling back to get back up again.
Nick:Yeah. That makes you think about your first step where you say after your first year of education that you weren't able to find something, that you made a tough decision to stop looking for work and, you know, taking what might have felt like a step back to do another year of education to better prepare yourself. I mean, I imagine that that must have sucked in the moment where you felt like I'm giving up or something. But then it's you taking a step back to be able to take, like, 15 steps forward.
Tyler:Yeah. I I think it's just, like, wrecking like, in that situation, it was, like, well, I've exhausted all all opportunities. So it's, I'm looking I'm applying. I'm going in person, handing. That was interesting because, like, for for that position, it was a three it was a three d animation position.
Tyler:So part of that was having a demo reel, which is basically just like a giant theatrical trailer for all your work Yeah. Burned on a CD that you would hand over to the to the front off front desk. So, like, handing those out and then getting the old rejection letters by mail.
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:Yeah. I just and then, like, tried internships. There's nothing was landing. And then realizing, well, I can't keep sitting at home waiting for something to happen. I have to Yeah.
Tyler:The German in me or, like, parents is like, we gotta regardless if you're you're home, you gotta it'll work. So let me work for something else.
Nick:Yeah. I mean, that I mean, that I think we can really relate that to some of those posts you see online of someone in desperation. Like, I've submitted, you know, 300 job applications, and I've gone nowhere. I feel like that those people are in the moment where you were after, you know, what you just said, trying everything, feeling like there's nothing left to do at that moment. You know, you can try another 500, but you'll probably get the same results.
Nick:So they need to do maybe the Tyler White approach. Maybe they need to take a look at their self and see where there is a gap, if they can spot it, and then work on on that gap, which also also makes me think, and I'm not sure if we talked about it, like, you went back to school. How did you figure out, like, what to do and what type of education to choose? Like, did you review yourself or did someone recommend something to you? Like, how did that go?
Tyler:I mean, for me, was like, need to find something that's art related or something design y related because that's like, that's what I excelled at. I I wasn't really good at math history, like, the other courses, but, like, what really gripped me was, like, anything, like, art related, painting, drawing, etcetera, etcetera. So I tried the three d animation route because I really liked, like, movies, special effects, but then so, like, what's the other opportunities? And graphic design was something that I've always wanted to do. That being rejected from university and college, like, programs because my my portfolio wasn't good enough.
Tyler:I was like, well, there seems and then I just happened to look on, like, this I think it was a newspaper ad for, like, trade schools. And I was like, oh, this trade they have this graphic design merged with a with a web designer position, ten month program with an internship at the end. I was like, this is this is interesting. Right. Plus, there's also this, like, negative connotation towards, like, trades for some reason.
Tyler:I remember, like, back in the day, it was really push like, you need to go to university. You need to follow this path. And then in school, sometimes you'd have people kind of, like, present, oh, here's trades, but you'd always kind of look down on it. And I was like, well, might as well just check it out. This is like it seems like there's an opportunity here.
Tyler:Might as well just check it out. And it seems like I had a really good session from like, this this seems like the way to go. And again, I wasn't looking for the web web design portion. Was like, at least I get to use learn graphic design.
Nick:Yeah. So that that maybe have been your moment of luck than, you know, just you seeing the ad in a newspaper. Like, Oh, that sounds interesting. Like, you weren't looking for it, but you just ran into it.
Tyler:Yeah. It's like they, I mean, old school marketing, they did their job. They they just happened to stumble upon it in a newspaper of all things. Yeah. I don't know how relevant that is anymore.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. That one. I don't I I don't get a newspaper at home, But that's I don't have a landline. We only have our mobile phones.
Nick:But anyway yeah. So, you know, that I have something harsh that I'm thinking about is if you look at, you know, people stuck on their job hunt, they approach you or me or another coach or mentor. And then the question always is, you know, how can I present myself better? So that makes it sound like they expect that they are good enough, but they don't know how to present themselves in order to bring that message of look at my cool stuff across. Maybe, you know, where I'm going with this.
Nick:But could it also be that they aren't ready yet for a job? Maybe, you know, skill wise, do they would would it make sense for them to then maybe take a step back like you did and learn some more, intern some more?
Tyler:Yeah. I mean, there's there's there's like, yes, maybe, but there's a there's a danger in that. Like, what is what does learn more mean? Like, some people, it's like, okay. I'm not getting a job because there's some like, I mean, the first the first barrier point is, like, my portfolio website.
Tyler:Like, I have all this work. Please look. I'm sending my resume. Take a look at my work. Is it good enough?
Tyler:And then, like, if you're getting rejection letters back, it's like, well, then I guess my work isn't good enough. So I'm gonna keep pushing and pushing and updating my website until eternity. At some point, you get some diminishing returns. So I think I think that that path is not the way to go. I think it's getting better, the craft, or, like, just, again, just, like, seeing what's comparing your portfolio versus maybe a senior or, like, whatever the the the rung up is and seeing what are the gaps is.
Tyler:So, like, first step is probably just like, see if you can pick your top favorite designer, start replicating their work so that you can learn how to replicate things until you until you do enough repetitions that you kind of define your own style.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the I mean, because that sounds so annoying. Like, I'm I I mean, I think you're right. You know, it's something you should do to refine and find your style, but then people also feel like, well, I need a job to do all of that.
Nick:You know? It's it's very tough to keep the motivation to do just do that on your own.
Tyler:But it's like you it's like watching page rides. Like, you can't you can't see it in the in the immediacy. Like, I was playing for example, my son, we just started in soccer maybe like a couple months ago. Nice. Started not good, obviously, but like first time playing soccer.
Tyler:So signed him up for some lessons lately.
Nick:In his whole life, the first time, you know, I mean,
Tyler:it's First time ever. Yeah. That's cool. He likes kicking. Not the same.
Tyler:And he does sessions, and then, like, you see the progress isn't immediately. Mhmm. And then yesterday, I noticed that, like, his kicks got better better. And it's it's not that he practiced in between the last weekend and yesterday. It's just that like, sometimes you just need to step away.
Tyler:And then as you come back to it, You get to see the progression. I was like, it's slow. It's tiresome. You're not going to see an immediate improvement in the moment, but I think it's good to just whether it's like keeping track of like old designs, just to follow your progression to see, like, what's the delta between my old work and my new work.
Nick:Yeah. What does it look like in practice for someone who's maybe getting demotivated after yet another rejection letter? What does their day to day look like?
Tyler:I mean, I'm looking back to, like, when I was looking in a job. It's it's really just, like, apply, apply, apply, and then improve, improve, improve. I think one strategy I deploy is that there's I think there's a bunch of, like, mentorship sites that are that are that are free. Like, ADP list is one, where you can find, like, a mentor or, like, book a session with someone. Like, a good strategy might just be book a session with those free mentors and then just have a portfolio review and then do that a bunch of times.
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:And then, and then if you have a ser do that, like maybe 10 or 20 times with different people. And then it's all it's almost like it's research. You get to see what the what the gaps are. It's like a button. All these mentors say that I'm weak in these in these areas.
Tyler:I need to prove this thing. I'm collecting that data so I can improve, accordingly.
Nick:Yeah. I mean, I I think that's that's very important. If you go the the coaching way, you know, talk to many people because smart people are wrong sometimes as well or experienced people. You know, we make mistakes too. And if you talk to many people, you will see the pattern, hopefully.
Nick:And the reason I'm asking all these these silly questions is because if I look back at the people I've been coaching this year, currently, I have two active, what you would you call them, coachees, students. So one of them is, in my mind, closer to getting a job than the other. And we are working on his social media game, basically, like how do you present yourself? How do you make sure that everything you post online reflects what you have on your portfolio website so that you look like one person regardless of where you look? It's a whole different discussion compared to the other person where we spend like six months building a portfolio together, you know, weekly sessions to just, you know, I was more of a teacher, like, how does Webflow work?
Nick:You know, we went the Webflow way. What's the layout? What's the component? What's the spacing? Now how do you make all of that look good?
Nick:Flex versus grit, that kind of stuff. So, you know, there's that that's something I've been noticing recently that there's a when someone comes to you, I'm stuck getting a job. I only get rejection letters. It's easy for me to just look at that thing, you know. Okay.
Nick:Well, let's let's fix your cover letter. Let's fix your CV. But then taking a step back and and say, wait a minute, we need to work a bit on your skills first before we start applying. Like, I think that's a that's a tough call to make, but something that I think, even though it is a tough call, something that I think will help people because, you know, your mental health will suffer from yet another 100 rejection letters. You know, you need to change something instead of just repeating your thing.
Nick:And I think you did a very cool job there, you know, by making a tough call to do another year of education instead of sending in more reels by mail.
Tyler:Yeah. I think it just like sometimes it takes longer for some people than that. Like, it doesn't have to be I think we were taught in school that, like, we have this grade system that you have to once you finish the year, you need to be good at this level. And then you kind of get this sense. Like, for me, like, I was terrible at math through my entire like, through high school.
Tyler:And then, like, that's the the thought that carries with me is like, alright. I'm bad at math. And, like, the to reframe that question that that statement is more like, I'm not good at math yet. Yeah. So it's like, maybe it just takes you a bit longer to get to that certain threshold.
Tyler:Like in your example, it's really just like, it just might be, it might just not take you six months to be good enough to get a job. Maybe it just takes a year or a year and a half, like do like, take the steps to, get better at the crafts, and then you'll get there regardless. Like, everyone's journey is different.
Nick:Yeah. And I I think that's fine. It's easy to compare yourself to the 20,000 follower, you know, influencer. Like, look at all the cool dashboards and dashboards I'm making. It's easy to compare yourself.
Nick:I think you mentioned comparing yourself to yourself, but then from, you know, a period of time ago. And I think that's that's the healthy approach. You know, as long as you can see yourself moving forward, I think then you're on the right track.
Tyler:Yeah. I think as the other the alternative is to compare yourself to this idea or this person. And then the gap is always there. I had that unhealthy obsession. Like, I wanna be as good as this person.
Tyler:And you never you the, like, the consequences that you're you never feel like you're good enough for. It's always like, I you don't see progress that way. But like, if you compare yourself, if you take a second to like, look at back, here's the work that I did last week or like a month ago or a year ago, Oh, look how much better I got. Like it's, it's confidence boosting because like you're, you're you're getting better incrementally. And if you're able to kinda measure and kind of see it, like, you get a bit of confidence.
Nick:Yeah. True. So I I had that moment, just this morning. Before we continue, if you're feeling stuck in your design career or if you feel like you're doing solid work while no one really notices, we've got a bunch of extra stuff on our website.
Tyler:We're building a community for product designers to actually learn, grow, and get hired, not just scroll and collect more inspiration.
Nick:There's also articles, checklists, and courses.
Tyler:All based on real world experience from both of us. No fluff, just what actually works.
Nick:Check out designtablepodcast.com. The link is in the description where I, you know, worked on on something a few months ago. We launched a v one, and now the company came back and told me, oh, okay. Let's let's do a v 1.1. Let's let's pick it up where we left off and see if we can make something better.
Nick:You know? And I so I opened the file again and I looked at it. I was like, this is not good. You know? And and I don't mean it from a visual standpoint.
Nick:You know? If you look at it, it's it's it's what we've built. It's live. It's launched. So it's it's good.
Nick:You know, I've had a good contribution there. But if you look at the way I structured the file, everything was set up and and and, you know, variable wise, and and the the maintainability was just terrible. You know, I I spent the first hour just cleaning up the mess that I made a while ago. So then I was like, in just a short period of time, I've, you know, improved still even after eleven years on the job. So I think what you are saying that that that's, you know, getting better over time.
Nick:Luckily, that happens to all of us all the time regardless of your experience. Yeah.
Tyler:And also think, like, you're you're gonna hate. A good sign is always, like, if you hate your work, your old work, that means you're progressing also. It's like, oh, this looks terrible. It looks terrible because you've gotten better. There's, like, an insight there.
Nick:Yeah. For sure. Yeah. What what else? So the so that was the thing that stood out to me from the last two stories and two episodes, the the making a tough call to take a step back to be able to leap forward in the future.
Nick:What's what stood out for you?
Tyler:Yeah. I I I like for your story, I conversely to mine, you had, like, been let go a couple times very early on in in your in your story. And what really stood out was, like, the the resilience to keep moving forward regardless of, like, the the happenstance or the situation that occurred, it was like, oh, well, I'm gonna keep going. I gotta keep going. Like, what what is, like, what is that mindset?
Tyler:Like, what is like, where, or what is, like, looking back now, like, what are some learnings from, those kind of situations? It's like you're fresh eyed, but, like, it wasn't going it wasn't the happy path.
Nick:Well, the honest thing is that it was the only thing I enjoyed doing and knew how to do. So I didn't see any options except for, you know, going to work in, you know, in a factory or in a in a store somewhere. You know? So I felt like I had to keep going. There was also a bit of shame.
Nick:Like, I've, you know, I've finally have a job. And then within the year, I've been let go. You know, my first contract is up and it's not getting an extension. So the shame also motivated me to see if I could, you know, prove them wrong, you know? So, yeah, quite a few unhealthy things, I think, they're the reasons I kept going.
Nick:But then maybe the positive one is that I just I just enjoy design work. I enjoy building things. So I'll probably keep going forever. Yeah. I think that's the thing.
Nick:And then the sec for the second time I lost a job, I had rent to pay someone to take care of. So I had to yeah. So I think that's the the boring kinda sad answer there.
Tyler:Yeah. I mean I mean, that's, like, in itself, that's like a a hard it's a muscle that's it's hard to strengthen. Maybe it's just like a consequence of, like, battle wounds, like like, scars building over time, and you get, you get used to it, which I I think in our industry, it's something that you really need. It's like the ability to keep going regardless of, like, how volatile things are, especially, like, in in the startup space. I think we're both inwards.
Tyler:The the exciting part about it is that, like, there's this ownership hat that we get to wear multiple hats working on different things. Mhmm. But, like, the consequence on the other side is that, like, it's very volatile. Things are constantly changing. There's there's alarm bells, fire drills, like, constant, which is which is both scary and thrilling at the same time.
Nick:Yeah. That's true. You know what you know what hit me harder? It was really at the start of my career. Like you, I started in house, and then at some point, I decided to build my own thing.
Nick:But at the start of my career, I already floated this idea of maybe I should just build my own business. And then people close to me told me I wasn't able to. Like, you will not succeed. You will not make it. You know, that was very hurtful.
Nick:Like, remember me just like like a little boy crying in my room because they told me I couldn't do it. So that was really tough. But then losing my job the first time hit me in a very different way. More of an I'll show them type response where the first the first thing I said was me just being sad and and heartbroken. You know?
Nick:How can they not trust me to do it? But, you know, that being said, you lost your job or, you know, landed in the in the wrong place a couple of times. Me as well. For me, the response at some point was, well, I'm not going to do this one more time. I'm sick of it.
Nick:Let's just build my own thing because then I don't have to deal with this shit anymore. You know? Did you have that kind of urge at any point? Like, I'm just going to build my own thing, or were you always set on finding something better but in house?
Tyler:I've always I think I've always set think I I've always, I always have that thought of like, I want to, I want to build my own thing. I think I'm, I I'm constantly having that itch that eventually I'll to need to scratch. But I think for me, I didn't think I had the confidence to do my own, my own thing. It's like the, the security blanket that is like working in house you have, regardless of if you have a sick day or you should, like, there's there's security there. But I I think there's there's always itch to do my own thing.
Tyler:I just haven't scratched it yet.
Nick:Yeah. I mean, that's perhaps why you have a podcast and a few products and you host a workshop every now and then.
Tyler:Yes. Yes. Exactly. There there's I wanna go back. There's something, that I think we both share in common about, like, I'll show them.
Tyler:I think there's something powerful in that. This is something that my wife hates about me or finds it annoying. It's like, any anytime that he wants to tell me something that I can't do, like, that's the that's my trigger. I don't like, oh, really? I can't do something?
Tyler:I feel like I feel like you're you're in the same way. Like Yeah. I think that might be an underrated, whether you call it a superpower, like an underrated thing. It's like, tell me I can't do something or tell or reject me. I'll show I'll show you.
Tyler:There's there's something something in that, like, flame or fire that just, like Yeah. Like, triggers, like, a a second gear in you.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's why women get you know, have a a better life expectancy than men because it I feel like that's really a manly thing to do. Like, I can jump that far, and then you you crash and die. You know?
Nick:Yeah. But no. That's, you know, all silliness aside because that's that's a joke, of course. But but I I I think that's true. I think it will bring us a lot, but there's also a risk for you and I to overdo it and become grumpy people that aren't able to sleep at night because they're still thinking about that thing that they want to do but haven't been able to do yet.
Nick:You know? So, yeah, if if if we can find the balance there, you know, if you can channel that skill of Yeah. Of the I'll show you mentality, I think it will be very it's very strong thing to have.
Tyler:Yeah. That's a fair point. There there is a there is a it's a double edged sword. Like, there's there's if you're seeing red and it's like, I'll I'll I need to prove you regardless of Yeah. No matter what, there's a there's some time, yes, they're gonna walk away, but that that red fire in your eyes will just be pushing when the best strategy is not to.
Nick:Yeah. Exactly. You know, for for example, I've been stuck at, you know, I I did, the lighthouse review of a a website, you know, where you get, like, a score out of a 100 that shows you how, you know, what the performance of your website is like in terms of Mhmm. Time to load and all that kind of stuff. I was frustrated and stuck at 97 out of a 100.
Nick:You know, I just couldn't handle it. And after just after after one afternoon of being super grumpy and stuck and and annoyed, my wife told me, like she sat me down and she was like, look at yourself. It's 97 out of a 100. Yeah.
Tyler:I know.
Nick:You know? Be be happy. Let it go and and go, you know, finish that project that will make you some money instead of, you know, being stuck there and annoying for everyone around you. So Yeah.
Tyler:What is here's a question. What is the like, I'm the same way. So I I I have nothing to say here. But, like, in reality, what is the difference between 97 and a 100? Like, what is the the the ROI or the tangible difference between that ninety seven and one hundred?
Nick:K. Well, there isn't there isn't. It that's it's just it's just ego. You know, I want to get a 100 out of a 100. You know, I'll show them.
Nick:You know, it's it's the the negative version of the thing that we just call the strength, you know. It's when you overdo it. Yes. So after five minutes of of being sad, I turned into a relief of, oh, yeah, well, maybe 97 is is not so bad, you know? And and I moved on because, like you say, like, it's it's ROI is next to nothing.
Nick:You know, if it's a 10 and you go to 90, you know, it's a big ROI. But, you know, going to a 100 from 97, it does. It's not worth it. You know?
Tyler:Yeah. I get it. But I think that that, like, part of that is, like, a designer's OCD. I just need, like, why not if it's I'm so close to a 100, why not just push it there? Yeah.
Tyler:I remember yesterday I had, I had that. I stayed up to like 01:00 in the morning trying to finish like this proof of concept slash sales tool. Essentially what I do is like, had a couple of fixes to do to the prototype. And then I just had to record like a Loom walkthrough of like how to use this, this sales prototype. Every time I record, I think I recorded that Loom recording 25 times.
Tyler:And the reason was is because whenever I went through, so I basically it's it's like a so something hosted locally that I'll eventually launch that I eventually launched and hosted publicly. But, essentially, I just walk through clicking the prototype, showing how it works. And then every time I caught something, something visual that wasn't correct, And that what that's that stopped me. So I I would record, notice of them, oh, that's not okay. Stopped, had to do some updates, and then rerecord it until I found found the next found the next thing.
Tyler:And it was only me like, no one else I I looking back, no one else would have caught those small minor UI bugs, but it bothered me. So I think there's the thing there's something innate in like designers in general, like, there's like this perfection thing. But it like carks back to your point, like, what's the difference between ninety seven and one hundred? I think most people will notice it.
Nick:No. No. That's true. So were you able to to get it to a a level you approved of at 1AM, or were you just Yes. So tired?
Nick:Okay.
Tyler:No. I got I got it. I I I didn't stop. It was unhealthy. I paid for it the next day, obviously.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. I imagine. I imagine. But, yeah, I mean, that's in a few episodes, we will talk about, you know, mental health in a in a designer because, you know, with the OCD, the perfectionism, feeling like you're on the spot all the time, like I had trouble getting a job, like all of that.
Nick:It's it's mentally it's it's so challenging challenging for people. So that's something that really deserves its own episode.
Tyler:Yeah. You know? There there is a performance tax, especially with, like, how, like, how we need to evolve very quickly with our position. It's not like you learn a thing, you learn plumbing, and then, when you when you're a plumber, like, the things you do don't change the problems that you once you've you've been doing it for quite a while, like, you see patterns and you need to and that's easy to fix because you've seen these models before. Yeah.
Tyler:Like specific to our industry, like things evolve and change, which is the exciting part, but there's also a mental tax. So, like, having to constantly being up to date.
Nick:Oh, yeah.
Tyler:And then defining what up to date means, because that could be I need to know every new tool, every new strategy, every new workshop technique that it it sometimes it can be, like, very it wears at you over time. So there's a balance Oh, yeah.
Nick:For sure.
Tyler:To be very well to be aware of and and to be mindful that your yes. Your sanity is the utmost importance.
Nick:Yes. Yes. Yeah. For sure. I mean, that's that's in today's design world.
Nick:It's it's it's the worst it's ever been, I think, because of, you know, all the, you know, AI powered tools. Like, you feel like you are behind every day when someone posts something about, look, look at all the things I can do automatically now. Designers are done. Designers are cooked. That kind of stuff.
Nick:Yeah. But more on that later. Any any closing thoughts on that, you know, double backstory of the previous two episodes?
Tyler:Yeah. I I think looking back, like, comparing our two stories, I think I think what's important to to keep in mind is that everyone's journey is different, and it doesn't it doesn't have to look like the perfect story arc, like a children's story. That it True. It can look grungy. It can look you can have success early on, fail later on.
Tyler:It doesn't matter. You're gonna succeed no matter what. It just doesn't like, the the chapters may look different from person to Yeah.
Nick:That's it. You know, even the hero's journey, you know, the the concept we started with doesn't isn't a happy story all the time. You know, you have the call to adventure and the refusal of the call. So, you know, I don't want to do this. I cannot do this.
Nick:But also, you know, the supernatural help, you know, the the Yoda that comes and help you or the, you know, the father figure that appears from, you know, out of nothing to help you when you're stuck. You know, in the for designer, that's getting a review, joining a community, getting a coach or a mentor, you know, or just having a group of like minded people where you can bounce ideas off. You know, so that's super important. So, yeah, I agree. It's not a not a happy story always, but get all the help you can, you know, talk to people.
Nick:I think that's perhaps the the key because I think that's something we both did during our our story so far. I agree.
Tyler:Alright. That's another episode in the bag.
Nick:Yeah. Great episode. By the way, if you're stuck second guessing your work or trying to figure out your next move, drop a question in the comments or leave a review. We might actually feature you in one of our future episodes.
Tyler:And if you got any value from this episode, hit subscribe wherever you're listening. It helps more than you think.
Nick:You can can find everything else, resources, articles, and more at designtablepodcast.com.
Tyler:Thanks for being here.
Nick:See you next time.