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The Harvester Podcast is brought to you by the Florida School of Preaching. Listen weekly to take a dive into biblical topics and thoughtful studies on things that matter to our eternal souls.
We'd like to welcome you to our Harvester podcast and this is what we're calling a bumper-sowed.
episode number three on leadership and we will talk about leadership in the church in just
a moment but I am Brian Kenyon and with me are
Steven Ford.
Joshua Epperson.
Alright, and Joshua Epperson is our guest today, and he has been serving 20 plus years
coaching men and women's college level basketball.
And one year he was a finalist for Coach of the Year not too long ago with Freed-Hardeman
women's basketball team.
And he has some great insight into leadership at the South Florida Avenue Church of
Christ.
We had asked him to speak on leadership one time, and on our fifth Sunday morning,
leadership class.
and he did a great job and so we asked him to come and to share some of that information
with us on this podcast and so we're gonna let Josh kind of lead the discussion and Steven
and I will comment and things.
Forrest, who's usually with us, was not able to be here today but we miss him but we will
continue with this discussion.
so Josh, what kind of things do you have for us today about leadership?
Well, let it rain is what we talk a lot about on our team.
And as a basketball coach, you might be thinking we're just talking about shooting threes
and hopefully making them as well.
And that is part of our philosophy is to, we hope we do make a lot of threes, but really
it goes into what we want our principles to be based on for our team.
You know, I think anything that's worthwhile and that works in this life is based on
biblical concepts.
And so Jesus gave us concepts that we can use for making great teams, making great
congregations, great families as well.
And I think that it's there for all of us that those same principles apply.
And so that's what we talk about as a team.
So let it rain for us, that principle we put into place as leaders is knowing what matters
most and really putting it in place and preparing before things happen.
I think that's a big thing for leadership is preparing for when bad things happen and good
things happen.
and i like that comment you made you know what are we all about preparing who who who do
we want to be what what what matters most as it what matters most and that has great
application in a number of ways but we know ultimately what matters most is chrysalis care
That's right, exactly.
And if we build that character, we'll stand the test of time.
Characters which you gotta look first for.
This is not an episode about recruiting, but obviously that's important in the recruiting
process as a coach too.
But we say rain can be good or bad, and so we have to prepare for either one of those, and
the same way preparation-wise.
And so that gets into them.
So our first principle we really get into with that for our congregation and anything else
is being a great teammate.
That's the first thing that we talk about.
It all starts with that.
And we use a lot of the example of Noah.
And we can use a lot of different examples in the Bible, but just speaking of Noah and his
preparation for the ark, you think about he did that and his family did that.
And we don't know, it doesn't go into all the specifics about how much different people in
the family were doing as far as work on the ark, but we do know he probably did a lot of
it.
But he was doing that not just for himself, he was doing that for his family.
and not just ultimately for his family, but eventually for all civilization, right?
If he doesn't build that arc and be a great teammate, look out for other people and not
just for himself, then who, I mean, the story in the Bible uh ends a lot earlier than it's
supposed to.
And so that's the start there.
But I think, you know, Jesus really talks about that a lot in his ministry, and some of
his last points he makes are about that.
You think about Jesus washing the Apostles' feet.
And what would you guys say, what were the key points he was trying to put out there when
he was washing his apostles' feet?
Yeah, he was doing that in reacting to the, want to be boss mentality, you know, to the,
you know, power in the kingdom type of thing.
Cause the apostles were talking about that and the parallel gospels, know, of course, John
doesn't give us a, Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper, but in the parallels that that's
when all that was happening.
earlier in that chapter, you know, who's the greatest in the kingdom.
And that seems to be, and who's the greatest takes out of the teamwork thing.
It's like,
Who's the greatest singular?
Right.
Which is not the team situation.
There's also an example of humility.
So he's bringing them down to understand what we are.
While we are a teammate, we are servants.
We're serving each other.
So it's not just, I'm showing you how much I can do and I'm just bringing you along with
me.
My, know, flunky or something like that.
But no, we are equals and we're all under a particular headship.
And so Jesus,
is under his father's authority and they were under his authority and so for teammates
it's kind of a humbling experience to say hey we're all in this thing together under a
single authority.
Exactly.
And that's the concept we want our athletes to understand.
The greatest type of leadership is servant leadership, which is based on being humble.
It's not about trying to esteem yourself more than others.
You know, it's funny in the basketball circles, the biggest debate they talk about all the
time is who's the goat, right?
Who's the greatest of all time?
Is it Michael Jordan?
Is it LeBron James?
I mean, whoever else you want to throw in there in that conversation.
just to go on a record, know, I mean, it's Michael Jordan, but anyway, but really the
principle is, and they were talking about this on the radio as I was coming over today is
really it's about the team, right?
Like it's who's making that the team the best.
Cause they were talking about the Oklahoma city is playing right now in the NBA finals.
And they were talking about, you know, their best player.
Will he be the greatest?
Will he be better than Kevin Durant if he wins it?
Cause Kevin Durant didn't win it.
And so they're like,
it goes back to that debate, but I think the debate is there for us as far as knowing it's
about the team, it's about putting, in the sense for the church, it's about putting the
congregation's needs before just your own.
And for us as leaders, our congregation has to see that we are about them, not about
what's just always best for us as a leader.
And so,
Yeah, and I see when you first mentioned teamwork, it made me think of Paul and Apollos.
Yeah.
1 Corinthians 3, 6, Paul says, I plant Apollos water, but God gave the increased.
But notice, so then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who
gives the increase.
Now, he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward
according to his own labor.
For we are God's fellow workers, we are God's
or your your god's field your god's building but notice the planner in the water i mean
one's not a more important than the other but together there on the team there one as a
team and that's what makes it work and of course their goal is to to spread the gospel
into you know spread the news good news of jesus
Exactly.
I don't wanna jump ahead, this may be part of the bigger picture that you get into, but
there's always a bigger picture.
And so if you're an individual, there's a bigger picture, there's a team.
But then if you think about it, there's a bigger picture, there's the university, or the
college, whatever you're playing for.
And then I think there's a bigger picture, there's my family, or the community.
So even within the church, there's me, then there's my fellow brothers, but then there's
the congregation, well then there's the kingdom.
And so I gotta be thinking, there's always something bigger.
minimize it to just myself.
We are cutting off so much of the blessing that there is being part of the body, part of
the family of God.
Yeah.
And so we talk about, okay, so everybody says, well, be a great teammate.
What does that mean?
Like what's the actual definition?
So we tell them definition of that is, are you making others around you better?
Are they better because you're there?
So as we talk about that in our walk and our faith and as a congregation, are you making
others better when you walk into church on Sunday?
And not just Sunday, obviously, or Wednesday, but are you making others better during the
week too?
Are, you know, you're talking about that congregation or the kingdom, are you making them
better?
Because one thing to be, we'll just throw this out there, and I hear a lot of people
praise people maybe as great song leaders, right?
Man, they are on pitch, they are doing a great job of that, not taking anything away from
that.
But I think it's also one of those like, well, did you make the people actually think
about the words, the music, or were they just thinking about your voice?
You know, is there a reflection on what really matters here, or making others better and
closer to Christ?
Because we lose the main point.
then we've lost the main point there.
So I think it's important for us to know are we actually making them better for the bigger
cause, not just whether or not something looks good or sounds good, but whether or not it
actually deep down is rooted in a better growth and actually growing closer to Christ.
If it changes people's lives from the inward, they're inward outward, then we know we've
succeeded.
Exactly.
And I'm not saying we don't need great song leaders.
But the term great can be relative.
Great in what respect.
And so, know, great singer and a singer and a song leader are very different.
There are some people who are amazing singers, but they may not know how to lead a
congregation with singing.
So, you know, great is a relative term.
Very, very true.
And so, and I think as you know, every congregation has different struggles with that, you
know, this is topic, off topic, but you you talk about singing, for example, some
congregations don't really struggle with that.
What I mean by that is they're just thankful that they have a song leader that week, you
know, because there's such a small congregation.
So they're not challenged with chasing how great can it just sound, you know, because I
think as you get bigger, sometimes you can lose track of that.
But I think that's true in a team or anything else.
Sometimes as you get bigger,
You have new challenges that arise and you talked about humility I think that's part of it
too is is keeping that humility as you get bigger and in different ways, So the other
things too that we asked us do you add or subtract from the team or the church?
You know, that's one things we asked them is like are you adding to it?
Are you subtracting or you know, are you just there and obviously you're not being a great
teammate If you're just if you're not adding to it Are you on board?
I know everybody says I'm on board
But are you really, like we're big on, you know, we're winners, not whiners.
And so making sure that, you know, if you're always complaining about things, are you
really being a great teammate?
And then there are times for constructive criticism.
Obviously there's times for that and it's needed.
But I think a lot of times people can use that as an excuse to constantly be complaining
about things.
Right.
Even in the church, are those that just, all they want to do is nitpicks.
You you did this wrong, you did that wrong.
And I think of preaching, you know, like there's a brother, I was at a congregation one
time where, man, I might make a grammatical mistake every five sermons or something.
I don't know if I'm that good or not, but anyway, but that one grammatical mistake, boy,
he'll point that out and meet you at the foyer and just, you know, like, you know, what
kind of team member is that?
But anyway.
makes it tough, and it makes it tough for you as a leader if you think also that you're
being critiqued that closely.
But people do pay attention to you, I mean, and that's one thing we have to understand as
leaders, too.
But everybody in their own way is leading in different ways within the church, too.
It looks a little different, but they all are looking at you.
Whether you're a teenager, you're in some ways leading the preteens.
know, the preteens are leading the toddlers.
You know, it just keeps going down the path there as far as somebody's looking at you.
Yeah.
And I heard a definition one time on leadership is, whenever you have influence over
somebody for Christ, then to that extent, you are a leader.
And that's across the board.
The other thing we talk about being great teammates, we always talk about is quality time.
I think it's really important for a congregation to understand quality time.
And it's not always having the best programs or the most organized programs.
Programs are great, that's fine.
But sometimes, again, you can be such a program-centered church that you lose track of the
fact that you just want genuine, real, authentic fellowship, where people are just doing
things naturally together.
And I think that when you look at the first, the early church right after Peter preaches
that great sermon, everybody's repented, they're there in Jerusalem, what do they do?
They're spending every moment together.
And it doesn't talk about, man, they put in some great programs that just got them revved
up.
I mean, it's just natural that way too.
You know, I think about when I was dating Kelly, I mean, we didn't have some step program
of, okay,
twice a month we're gonna do this and we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, and
nothing against it.
Sometimes we have to have that marriage where you have to say this, especially if you have
kids, you have to start going back to that.
But it naturally flew because it just, it came together because we loved each other.
Guess what we wanna do?
We wanna be around each other.
So it just happened, and that want to is a big part of this, is that if we truly are
brothers in Christ and sisters in Christ with you, then we're gonna want to be around, and
that's gonna make that being a great teammate so much better.
Because you we talk about in basketball like you want to know how does that that shooter
want that ball passed him exactly?
Well, you know that if you've been rebounding and hanging out with them and doing other
things with them not just maybe even practice so
Yeah, you know which side he does the layup better.
Yeah.
And where your position you can get him the ball that way.
Yeah.
One of the things that you mentioned was I think is very valuable, just the quality time.
I love the phrasing that Mark uses in Mark chapter three where Jesus, you know, he gets
his disciples, but it says in Mark 3 14, and he ordained 12 that they should be with him
and that he might send them forth to preach.
So it wasn't just the sending them out.
It was
we need time together.
And the time wasn't only in the classroom.
It was eating together, it was traveling together, it was perhaps laughing together, it
was going through ups and downs together, it was at weddings, was at funerals, literally,
both of those.
And so that time, the true mentorship was taking place.
It wasn't just like you mentioned a program, but if you're gonna be a leader and you're
hoping, which we would hope, all leaders would hope to do, to reciprocate, or not, to
duplicate.
and make more leaders, you need time together.
You need to spend time so you know the person.
What are their strengths?
What are their weaknesses?
How do I help you to be more effective?
And you see that with some of the great leaders in the scriptures.
You find that with David, you find it with Paul, you find it with Elijah, you find it with
Moses, you definitely find it with Jesus, and these others who spent time with the
individuals who were gonna come after them, and so that they were able to function as a
leader, but it took, as you said, that quality time.
You make a great point too for leaders to understand you're not going to be able to spend
equal time with everyone too.
You have to prioritize spend, know, Jesus spent more time with his apostles and he wanted
to spend, needed that.
So he had a really deep relationship with them.
And then he was able to spread them out to others.
You know, if you that in a coaching realm, I spend more time, I have to coach up and slash
spend time with my assistants.
And then they're able to contribute more to our players, you know, and I spend more time
with our captains than I do with some others.
It doesn't mean the others are less valuable.
It just means leadership wise, you have to invest in other leaders to develop and multiply
leaders through that way too.
And even among the 12, there was three of them.
He spent even more time than those.
And I was reading something not too long ago talking about mentoring that, you know, we
can only mentor just a small group of people.
can't spread it out and mentor everybody.
But, and I think Jesus is those three, or Peter, James, and John, were the three he
mentored more than the other.
That's right.
And that's one of the biggest things I know when I was a young coach that I did a poor job
of is in X and O wise and he ran a lot of different offenses, a lot of different defenses.
And we were at best on a good year, we were good at a lot of them or maybe okay.
But you had to, as you start looking at practice, you had to practice all these little
things.
So it just, killed you.
So now we're going to be great at one thing.
We're going to get really, really deep on that one thing.
And then we can do little changes out of it and stuff like that.
But Andrew Stutz, who's the men's basketball coach at Freed Hardmore, I'll give him
credit, he's the one that talked to me about that a lot.
If you've got a pie, you start dividing that pie up in different chunks.
You don't have as much anymore of any of them.
And so I think that's important when you talk about leadership and investing in people.
If you spread it so much, then none of the pieces are really that significant.
They're not gonna fill you up at all.
So yeah, so time is important there as well.
then.
that helps us know we're brothers and sisters in Christ.
It's going to help you know the people on your team as well.
So that's the first principle is being a great teammate.
It's the pivotal part.
It has to be that first.
And I think going with that before we move on, you know, he says the identifying quality
of his disciples would be their love and their love from other.
It's got to set them apart.
And I think that's something we can't lose.
We can't lose that and try to start thinking something else first.
That has to be a cornerstone is that because
Christ showed us first how he loved us and we have to replicate that too.
So that's the cornerstone for us as leaders is is embodying on the making as a principle
first is we've got to be great teammates.
We got to be there for each other and we have to love each other.
Second is is being a hard worker as our second one we talk about a lot.
Obviously that's a biblical principle from the very beginning right.
Man shall not eat unless he unless he works.
So
And then whatever our hand finds to do, we should do it.
Exactly.
So I think that's something for us, whatever we're doing.
I talk about that a lot with the team that I, we want this also for our current scene,
anything else that that principle of wherever you're at, be there, be a champion of what
you're doing at that moment.
If you're, if you're watching the movies with your kids, then be in that moment, be
invested in that.
If you are at a Bible study, you need to be totally invested in that.
Whatever you're doing.
you've got to be there.
And I think that's a struggle for all of us.
I know it's a struggle for me.
My phone's a big part of recruiting everything else for me.
And it's a tool, but it's also a tool that really is gets in the way because you can't
focus on being there and being present with people.
And so part of being a hard worker is understanding that you have to be present and
putting everything into it.
And that means a complete 100 % focus into it.
And that's a principle today that
we lose track of because we want to multitask, And it's like, but no, the power of focus
is still the same way today as it was back then.
He wants us to focus on what we're doing at the moment.
Yeah.
And what's key to focusing found is things that we enjoy that we want to do will be
focused on that.
It's lot easier to be focused on that rather than chores or something.
If I think it's a chore, then I'm going to lose my focus, my drive and all that.
But you know, if we like love the Lord and we, we understand our strengths, our
weaknesses, and we find things that we're strong at that we want to do for the Lord, then
those are the things that we're going to focus most on.
But still, as you mentioned earlier, we need to focus on anything that we're putting over.
We need to, you know, focus on it.
But the more we love the Lord, the more we love the work of the Lord, the easier it is to
be focused on the Lord and His work.
I think part of it too is you have to prioritize what things you're going to focus on.
Yeah, some things have to take they they don't They don't get to make your schedule They
don't get to me a priority and so that way the things you are doing you can focus in on
and sometimes that's the problem for some of us too is we have to get rid of some things
you know, I don't know if If the Bible is completely a minimalist in its teaching but in
some ways it is I feel like you know that we don't need a lot of the excess that sometimes
we think we need right and so
But that goes to being a hard worker is getting down to those crucial things we can work
hard on as well.
know, the saying we used to say all the time was hard work beats talent when talent does
not work hard.
And so I think that's one thing for our teams that, you know, we've won the past, rarely
what I'd say, that we were the more talented team, which could be good or bad.
Maybe I'm not doing a good enough job recruiting.
I don't know.
But I really have always recruited people that are higher character that just outwork
other people.
Because I feel like at the end of the four years they're gonna beat that team that just
had talent starting out and never worked to make it even better and so So some of the
things I put here too is what does it mean to work hard part of it?
We talked a lot about is compete, you know competing to win the Bible talks about that
everybody runs the race, right?
But really only one gets to win it gets the crowd only one gets their crown So you've got
to compete in a way to do that and that's
Whether that's competing to get to be in the kingdom of heaven someday, to get to be in
heaven, or whether that's competing, you know, whatever you're doing, compete to try to
win it.
Yeah, and I think that's a very good point because like Paul, of course, he uses that
athletic imagery in 1 Corinthians 9, 24 through 27.
He uses it elsewhere too.
But in the Christian race, everybody who finishes comes in first place.
They win.
And the competition is not against fellow Christians, but it's against the world, against
the devil.
And we just focus on that, remember, because Paul said, I have fought a good fight.
I have finished the course.
It's an individual race.
But it is done together in a sense, but individually we're accountable, individually we're
rewarded, we're punished, whatever.
But I've run there, I've kept, of course, know, there's laid up for me a crown of rights,
but not to me only, but to all of them that love is apparent.
And it's just finish the race and you win.
That's right.
Everybody who finishes gets the gold.
That's right.
And I think about in the book of Revelation, a couple of times you have, you know, they
sing a new song that only they could sing because only they went through those particular
struggles and overcame.
we have different struggles but we can sing a new song at the end that no one else can
sing cuz they didn't overcome the same struggles we did and so it's kind of individually
based but yet it's a collective we're all together in this but we have to individually run
that race and find out what's good for what what we can do good at and focus on that
Well, and part of it is knowing just like if you're in an athletic endeavor, who is our
competition?
You said it's not, it's not your person across from you.
That's not your competition.
Competition is a devil.
He knows he's your competition.
So hopefully you do, because if not, you're in the hell world.
as a roaring line seeking to be made about
That's right.
So we are competing against him on a daily basis.
Part of that is also giving the best of what we have.
I think that's important for everyone to understand is it's not hard work is working in
what you're best at too.
And I think that's a really biblical thing is that, you know, the hand not trying to be a
foot and the elbow not trying to be a knee.
Sometimes my knee, I think it thinks it's an elbow because it doesn't work too well.
I say we got to try to do and here's the reason I say that too is if you're constantly
let's let's say this, for example, let's say I'm a bad song leader.
If I constantly think I've got to work harder and harder and harder in that area, that's a
such a weakness for me.
But yet maybe I'm the best artist.
or maybe I'm the best communicator.
There's so many other things I could be working hard and better for the congregation than
trying out saying you shouldn't work at your weaknesses.
On a basketball team, you have to do that too.
But you need to find your strengths.
And really, that's working harder, but also working smarter too, for the kingdom is
finding what those are.
And that's really what's working hard too, is finding what you're great at and do as much
of it as you can.
And it may not even be what you are comfortable with.
I talk to my girls a lot about what you're good at versus what you love doing.
And those can be very different.
You may get a job that you love doing, but you're not good at it.
Or you may get a job that you're good at, but you don't love it.
And so we want them to find the thing, I think that you find the thing that you love more
than the thing that you're good at.
You can get better at what you love.
But I think of Jesus sending out the disciples or his apostles.
Excuse me, I'm thinking about Paul in particular, how Paul was reared to know the law
effectively.
I mean, he knew it, it seems you might say the term backward and forward.
He knew the law.
However, he was sent to the Gentiles.
And that was just trouble at every turn.
It didn't matter what he was good at.
It didn't matter what he was more, you know, maybe versed in at the moment.
The assignment was, I need you to go out and do this.
And he was effective at it.
And so could he have been more effective if he had gone and been able to discuss the law
with Jews?
We don't know.
That's not for us to determine.
But what we do know is the assignment was, here's where I need you.
And so within the kingdom is, here's where I need you.
And I love, man, I love 1 Corinthians in chapter 12, God placed the parts of the body in
the body according to his will.
So it's not what I think, what I want.
you know, who I think, well, man, this guy's a better singer, this guy's a better
communicator, this guy's a better cleaner, this guy's, or this gal in that case, you is,
we are here to honor God, period.
It doesn't matter what I think I'm doing, what I may wanna do, I'm here to honor God.
So if I wanna honor God, then I'm gonna be looking at the best way to utilize what I have
and to help encourage others to utilize what they have.
So when you see that, like in your case, you know, as a coach, when you see that person,
you know,
they may be bad at shooting, but man, they can pass.
Or they know how to set screens, whatever it is.
when that last, you got three seconds left in the game, you need to get your shooter the
ball, put that person in to set the screen, because you know that's what they're good at.
They may not get the shot, but if they get the screen to make the shot, then it's a
victory.
Exactly.
No, that's key.
And that's key too, is to have a great team.
Everybody has to kind of realize and accept what their roles are.
And sometimes those may even change.
We've had some players that were scout team players, and then next year all of sudden they
became the star player.
But a scout team player never really gets to play much, but they're doing a lot in
practice.
But they're very important.
so, and then...
Last little part within working hard is energy.
Energy is contagious and making sure we have positive energy and not fake, but authentic
because fake energy obviously will go away.
Now, I've always heard the saying, you guys probably have heard too, like fake it until
you make it.
And I think there's a part of that's real, know?
Hopefully you fake it until it's real like that.
I mean, it's one of those things that, you know, it's genuine at some point too, but we
need real energy.
We want people to really to be excited about what they're doing.
And I think that's part of working hard, know, is that you have to have that energy as
part of it.
You know, I was raised in Kansas.
So my grandfather was a great man.
But one of the things that was great is I got to go out and work on the farm every summer
with him.
the energy he had every day, even in his 60s and 70s, we went out in that hot field, was
just unreal.
But it helped me.
as a fellow person out there working with him because I'm like, if my grandpa in his 60s
or 70s can have this type of energy, then how could I not have it at 13 years old?
But that energy is a big part of it as we're working hard.
If I could just throw this in with the energy, this kind of goes into several things that
you've mentioned so far with, you know, the service requires love and here with the
energy.
As a leader, you really have to be able to, I use this term, sell the dream.
If not, why would a person love what you're talking about?
Why would they have energy?
But if you can sell the dream of...
you get to honor God, you get to be a part of the kingdom, and then ultimately you will
have eternal life.
You get to be a part of this body, we've been called out of darkness.
You can paint the picture for the person and create this buy-in.
They will have that love.
They will have the true, sincere, unyielding energy.
They will go to the ends of the earth, but it does require a bit of, I don't wanna say
salesmanship, but ability to paint the picture so that people can see.
exactly what you're trying to communicate and they can understand why they are essential
as a part of that and why they need to be a part of it.
You know, it's one of things one of my daughters once was asking about how she wanted to
talk to one of her teachers about going to church here.
And I said, you know, one of the best things you can do is just tell them about the sermon
or tell them about, you know, your Bible class.
Just share with them what you're going through.
And if they see your excitement and they see it as genuine, then something naturally can
come about that.
I think the flip side of it that we have to be really important about is you could almost
be
anti-evangelizing if you're ever going and complaining about certain things that you're
going to do.
Because all of a sudden, I'm saying that that's one of the best things you can do.
Well, then obviously the worst thing you do is go complain about something going there.
They're like, well, shoot, I'm not going to that generation.
Yeah, that's a good thing.
We have to mind our words.
They do have power.
James talks about the power of the tongue.
So if you go in and you're berating, know, that preacher preaches too long.
It's too hot in that building.
All those people are fake.
Then, you know, who in the world would want to step foot there?
Exactly.
That's a great point.
that's the second one that we talk about is being a hard worker.
And then the last one that we talk a lot about is being mentally tough.
Being mentally tough.
I think this is, it goes to a lot of different principles with this.
This is something that I think all of us have to grasp and really continue to get better
at.
I even myself, I'm 44 years old and I still feel like I'm not mentally tough and maybe
when I'm 70 I finally will be.
I don't know.
But it's important to continue growing that.
You know, let's go back to the example of Noah here, for example, he's building this arc.
As far as we know, we don't really know what rain had looked like at that point, but
basically what we heard, it obviously was not what rain is like now.
They really didn't know what it was.
But yet he was building this big, not just a boat, right?
He's building this huge boat.
Could you imagine what his neighbors had to be saying to him?
I mean, but he every day had to keep working on that and he had to be mentally tough for
a long time.
Do we know how long was it?
120 years.
That's my estimation.
120 years is where it's talking about God was a patient with them or gave them 120 years.
strive.
Genesis said he would not strive with them for 120 years.
But when exactly during that 120 years he's commanded Noah to build the ark, we don't know
for sure.
So as long as 120 years, but even if it's five years, don't know, no matter what it is, he
had to be tough mentally for that.
when I think about toughness, know, mental toughness, spiritual mental toughness goes back
to faith, you know.
By faith Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house when he was warned of things not
seen as yet, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, and condemned the world in
righteousness by doing what God said.
And so, yeah, faith.
yes, and you think about Paul, you know, the things that he endured, you know, faith.
Even Jesus endured, you know.
faith, mean doing his Father's will.
And so that's very important and that's what gives us mental toughness from a spiritual
perspective is faith.
And of course the older we are and the more things we've been through and God has bailed
us out, the more faith we can have.
I'm facing this now but that's nothing compared to what God did for me ten years ago when
I was facing other things.
And so that's the toughness, the mental part of it.
That also reminds me of Hebrews 11, where if we're going to, know, faith, where does it
come from?
I'm gonna give faith by hearing from God's word.
And so if I'm going to have the kind of faith that I need to do whatever it takes to be
mentally tough, like Noah in particular, whether it's 120 years or 120 days to preach in
the face of one unspeakable
Unspeakable wickedness right and also Rejection because they were on board right and so
does to preach in the midst of that One hard Sunday can be tough for me.
so for for Noah to do that To me.
I'm thinking of he heard from God.
There was revelation from God.
He trusted in God.
There's the faith.
Yeah
but the picture was painted.
He bought into the picture.
Now he could have balked at it too.
Rain, what's this rain, like the grass is watered from this mist that comes up from the
ground.
I don't know what you're talking, you know, it hadn't rained yet.
You he could have done that, but it was, hey, I heard from Jehovah, I'm buying into the
picture, I'm gonna do what he asks.
Whether or not you think this barge is too big, you think it's too small, whether or not
you think it's not gonna be that bad, hey, God said it.
And I love Genesis chapter seven, because it begins with Noah did, six ends and seven
begins with Noah did.
every single thing that God asked him to do.
It wasn't like, well, you know, I bet you if I make a, you know, this color end or this
shape end, it'll really be cool, you know, but it was, hey, if God said it, I'm gonna do
every single bit of it because God said to do it.
oh
great.
Walk by faith and not
Amen brother, that's it.
I don't know if you gentlemen, do you guys know who Don Meyer is at all?
He used to coach men's basketball at David Lipscomb back in the day.
And then he ended up getting cancer and lost part of his leg.
But he was a great mentor to a lot of coaches, but he had a thing he called NBA, not
national basketball association, but next best action.
And he talked a lot about that with his athletes is what's the next best action you can do
here.
And I think that's really important for us when we're about mental toughness is
being able to really focus very quickly.
When we linger on the past too long, it hurts the future.
You gotta forget that and go on and look to what's ahead.
So give me an example.
So next best action, you're dribbling down and someone steals the ball and does a layup.
That's right.
So next best action.
so like yes, yes exactly so one of the things that's a great one for example Let's say I I
turn the ball over right I pass it to the other team a Lot of people they get mad so they
just go foul the person right away Well Nick's best action is yeah, forget about that.
You got to go back and get on defense play solid be defense You know, we always talk about
that.
That's a whole other drill we do called turnover transition Which is if you turn it over
your job is to go protect the basket
So it really gets to that concept of, man, I got to be the one gets back now because I
made the mistake.
But you have to be thinking about the next best thing because you're still thinking about
the turnover.
Your team's.
Yeah, you see that a lot and you put the team at risk you see that especially know I watch
a lot of basketball and you'll see the guy Turn over the ball or you know, there's a steal
and he turns to the ref he's screaming He's know looking for the call and in meantime that
player sprint down He gets an easy way because he's not thinking about the next best
action
And that's the thing too, is we can make one mistake and make it into two, which can make
three, four.
I mean, it can just keep spreading.
And that's the key thing for us is like, move on to next thing.
You know, you mentioned Paul.
I can't imagine how much he had to do that in his life.
He goes from killing sinners to being part of destroying the early church to all of a
sudden now he has got to completely forget that and turn to his next best action, which,
okay, now I gotta go...
convert people to Christianity.
Now I have to preach this.
How do you flip that around and forgive yourself?
I think that's a big thing we talk to him about is you have to be able to turn and forgive
yourself quickly.
He had to forgive me.
Obviously God had forgiven him once he had done what he was supposed to do.
But he had to forgive himself too.
If he had always kept doing it, and I'm sure it was a battle.
It had to be a battle throughout his life.
fact I was thinking we just mentioned I thought of Philippians 3 where he talks about you
know I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus
you know and this is after he talked about you know he was a Hebrew of Hebrews and all
this kind of stuff but that he counted for dawn right you know next Bex action yeah you
were killing Christians you were sinful in that the Lord opened his eyes went to Ananias
was converted next best action now right
get on with the gospel.
Don't look back.
Now he still referred to himself as chief of sinners and things like that, but his action
was always forward looking, forward, going forward.
And so that's a pretty good example.
Spiritually, next best action, just forget about the past as far as mistakes and just move
forward.
God will take care of it.
think that's really important for all of us as leaders and different people in the
congregation, sometimes we get stuck in thinking about it, we need to see big picture.
We also have to see the next best action of what can you do next, you know?
And you talk about the conversion stories and different things like that.
A lot times people get stuck in the fact that when you see a conversion, sometimes you'll
see a couple parts of it.
Well, those are the actions that were needed for that person based where they were at in
that part of story.
And so because we look at the totality of it all, you see all those actions had to be
taken.
was just those were the ones they were at at that point too.
And so as leaders directing the congregation, okay, what is your next best action where
you're based on?
In invitations every week you hear
half that invitation, know, part of it is about those that are not Christians yet.
The other part is for a lot of us that we almost start ignoring over time, is the next
best action for us is, hey, do you need prayers at the church?
Do you need something to help you in your day?
There's a lot of people in our congregation that probably need a next best action other
than us just sitting and listening to the invitation song.
So, but.
Just thinking of the Nexbex action and the mental toughness, forgiving self you just
mentioned, one example, not to keep it as brief as possible, that I'd love to kind of
counter is the example of Peter and Judas.
Both denied Jesus in a way.
And both of them demonstrated a broken heart to some degree afterward.
Peter went to the right source, he went to Jesus, and it clearly continued to bother him
over a period of time.
know, when he's there, he swims to shore, you know, he's eating breakfast with Jesus on
shore, you can see that it still bothers him.
Judas, on the other hand, took a different route.
He was overwhelmed by his mistake.
He could not find, he went to the wrong source.
Obviously also he went to those chief priests and they're like, we don't want that money
back.
And so now he didn't go to Jesus, he didn't find mercy, he didn't find forgiveness, he
didn't find grace, he didn't find love.
And so what he found was harshness and instead of being able to kind of get over it, look
to the big picture, he took his own life.
And so those two really stick out of my mind and jump out as to how am I going to handle
this?
And you used an analogy about this big picture, little picture, I think with sports.
There's a point in time where you zoom out and you see, you know, the...
the play go up this 30, 50 yard pass and you're looking from way up.
But then there's a time that you may say, okay, stop the film.
Let's zoom in.
Look at this lineman.
So what did this lineman do, good or bad?
Or what did this receiver do?
What did that DB do?
To see exactly what's happening.
And so you can look at the big picture, the touchdown.
But the little picture is, perhaps there was a hold now that it gets called back or
whatever.
So you gotta look, as a leader, need to be able to look at.
the big picture, see the overall picture, but you need to zoom in sometimes and see what
are the little things that contributed to where we are and what are the next things we
need to do to contribute to where we want to be in the future.
One of the big things with the team, I'm glad you mentioned film, it's tough on athletes,
is after every game, guess what?
We get to break down their mistakes and they have to watch them in front of their
teammates.
And it doesn't matter if we won or lost the game.
so, and we try to emphasize quite a few positives too, but you have to go over the
negatives so they don't happen as well.
And, but that, takes a lot to be able to be mentally tough to handle that.
But that's how you become great.
And you want that.
They're great athletes and they're great people in their walk.
want to get better and want to see how can I get better.
I think it's tough for all of us today.
We all need someone, a mentor, a leader, someone that we're willing to take that
criticism, that coaching, whatever word you want to use, and we got to keep looking for
it.
Because when we stop having that, we're not going to keep growing.
And I know obviously we can turn to the word and we can see it from there.
And that's the best example.
But I think we also need that personal relationship with somebody that can also call us
and hold us accountable too.
And I think, know, we're all men in this room, like as men, we need that too, to keep
ourselves to face the challenges that we have.
Is that we need somebody to be able to hold us accountable, to be mentally tough and to be
able to move on when we do make mistakes too.
Good stuff.
all right very good we're about out of time right here but we appreciate josh in coming
with us and he's got two more lessons on that in time and so we were called that and as
you notice we call this a bumper sodas the name comes from between seasons like a radio
show have bumper music and so this is between our second and third season that we will
have on the harvester podcast but we appreciate him coming by and so if you have any
questions or comments feel free to email
us fsop at fsop.net and we thank you for tuning in and we will see you next time
proverbial speaking on the podcast thanks for joining us