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VIP schemes are essential to an operator's long term success. When it comes to building long lasting relationships with high lifetime value players, having effective and meaningful VIP schemes can be crucial. Gifting is a huge part of VIP schemes in iGaming, but being able to ensure that operators get a proper return on that investment is not always straightforward. Today on iGaming Daily, we are speaking to Mark Ohaino, founder and CEO of Framme. A platform that offers automated VIP gifting schemes for the iGaming industry that helps operators quote, send gifts your customers and partners actually want. We are also joined by Robin Becker, head of marketing at Hub88 and Sonja Ittenen, an iGaming professional and partners of Frammer. Before we get into it, iGaming Daily is sponsored by OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. And as a special offer, OptiMove is offering new clients a free first month. when they buy OptiMove. For more information and to claim the free month, go to optiMove.com forward slash SBC. Links will also be left in the podcast episode description. And so guys, thanks for joining us today. Let's begin with yourself, Marco. Just to begin, can you give us a brief introduction to VIP gifting in the iGame and industry and talk a little bit about Framme and what it is that you offer the industry? Yeah, sure. Can I actually throw a curveball here and start by asking Sonja and Robin, what is the ballpark estimate of how much revenue is expected from the VIP players, percentage-wise? That depends a lot on any given segmentation in companies internally. But of course, it's a very high percentage with... and there is more group of people of the customer base that contribute to this massive percentage. So I mean, but it can vary from anything. I mean, it depends on the approach, of course, what the customer or the company has decided to go with, but it can be anything from 60% to 90% even. I mean, it's a huge, huge chunk. Yeah, that was pretty much what I would have answered as well, because it's a... pretty huge percentage and what I've seen is that gifting has kind of become the major way of driving that revenue. And to answer to your question, if the ultimate goal is revenue and bigger CLV, so customer lifetime value, I'd break that goal into three when it comes to VIP gifting. So first goal is obviously the retention part, retention and long-term loyalty. Second one is increased engagement. And then the third one is building your brand, like standing out from the crowd. And these are the parts where we as Fromme come in. So as you mentioned in the introduction, we specialize in making physical gifting experience seamless and the gifting itself more impactful. So with us, the operators can automate the whole gifting process. So starting from the digital experience of choosing the gift, then to the gift itself, and then all the logistics around sending and receiving the gift. And finally, we try to optimize everything and also get the data to improve the gifting of the VIPs, make it more impactful. Fantastic, and I'm just going to open this up to everyone on the podcast. What impact does having an effective gifting scheme have on an iGaming company's operations? What is the difference between having a standard gifting scheme that is same for all VIP players and then having that sort of customized and more automated system? I think it just makes it easier on the operator as well as on the player. The player gets to choose. One of the things that Framé also offer within their scheme is that you could put in a code and then the player can choose which gift they want based on the amount that you want to spend on that player. So they could go in and say, choose that they want a flat screen TV over an iPhone or a laptop over a watch. So therefore it makes it more personal. they feel like they're more in control, they get to, you know, and they feel more appreciated that way because the company is actually looking at their needs as opposed to just giving them any kind of standard gift. It's like, it's their choice. And Sonja, anything to add on that one? Yeah, and I think it's important. So what I want to kind of piggyback on what Marco said is also the analysis part of things and... collecting data and knowing kind of what works for your customers instead of kind of shooting in the dark, sending out electronics to people. We know how, especially the tech industry is so evolving. People have their own preferences. So sending an Apple phone to someone that only uses Android is not very thoughtful. And that's a very grassroots level explanation of it. The really important thing is that what, for example, some layers trying to deliver is the seamless procedure and a process of things. It should be something that the customer can claim when they want, what they want, and kind of be in charge of the process. And we are here to make the customer's lives better and more smooth and the user experience more seamless. So yeah, it's several layers to that. Absolutely, it sounds like the gifting process can, if not done properly, can be quite an expensive mistake. So to have a proper system in place is crucial. How can operators implement a VIP gifting scheme in a more systematic way then, rather than just offering gifts on an ad hoc basis? How can they sort of set it up? to be systematic. I can start actually by adding a layer, starting with the evolution of gifting in iGaming. What I've seen is that rewarding and gifting used to be mostly digital and bit less brand driven previously. So gifts were things like free spins or digital gift cards because they were also, like we talked about, easy to deliver. But then at the same time as competition has become more fierce, marketing noise online has increased. So that is the reason why more and more operators are moving towards also physical gifts because they want to create these more personal connections and build the brand even more. So when you talk about... making this systematic so these free spins and all of those things have already been implemented into the customer journeys more or less but adding that physical layer hasn't been there yet. So when you're dealing with a larger group of VIPs for example the best way to systematize it is to integrate this gifting also this physical gifting directly into your CRM system. because when you do that, you can automate the gifting as part of the customer journey. So you can set these specific milestones, you can set these specific triggers so that these gifting links or gifts go out automatically when these conditions are met. Like if a person hasn't played for a while, if they reach a milestone, if they're having a birthday or something like that. So when you do these things more automatically, you get rid of the mistakes, you get more volume, you get more data. Like what works, what doesn't work. And with the data, you can obviously develop the gifting, like make it even more impactful in the future. ultimately improves those relationships with customers and ultimately leads to stronger player retention rates. Is that something that you've experienced as well, Robin and Sonya? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I like that really works with this type of thing is that a League of Fet player has a bad loss, especially a VIP player. You want to still show them how much you're thinking about them, how much you still appreciate them. You don't want them to come off feeling bad about... having a bad loss, so you could send them something to show your appreciation for them being a loyal player and that keeps the retention, that keeps them there. A physical gift is way more personal than a bunch of free spins or money and a lot of the VIP players, they have the money. It's not that the thing, so when you send something... that they're interested in, that they want, that's unique or special, then it becomes more personal. You build up a better relationship with them. Their VIP manager really develops that relationship further. So these types of schemes work way better with that type of customer. Yeah, and also I think that especially the bespoke part of it and branding and how to make our customers spokespeople for our brand. And I think that thoughtful gifting is more of a tangible way to do it. And I mean, there's time and place for free spins and deposit bonuses. Absolutely. But, but I think like it is a very special thing for our customer. If like, let's say they mentioned that they love certain type of watches or they love a certain football club or they love a certain game niche or something. And then, and then. they get something very thoughtful that clearly is for them, that's like a more personal level, but in general as well, just getting the freedom of choosing what you want to be rewarded with is definitely plus. Absolutely. And I guess that goes to the heart of that data aspect that we were talking about earlier. Let's move on to the sort of the Framé platform and how, really how that works. So Marco, why is the implementation of automation so important in the gifting process and more specifically related to the Fram-A platform? How does that automation work? Yeah, I touched that part a little bit already. So the automation, in my opinion, is the key because it really ensures that the gifts are sent out on time and they are consistent. They are done in personalized way. whenever there's people doing this manually, there can come mistakes. They can also, it takes a lot of time sourcing the gifts, packing the gifts, sending them out. Those kinds of things are probably not the things that the operators want to focus on. They want to increase the results. So that's why automating things is much, much better solution. And And if you want to do the optimization, I think that like what I mentioned, the CRM integration is the key because that way you can trigger those actions that you want to trigger. You want to have those like personalized customer journeys, no matter if it's a top-tier VIP or if it's a little these players reach and then they automatically go higher and higher. That's the whole idea, scaling things without having to do everything by hand one by one. Absolutely. And you mentioned the integration into the CRM. Perhaps you could touch a little bit on how that integration works. Is it sort of a simple process? How can clients integrate that into their platforms? I mean, it's a... Pretty straightforward process. So obviously, everything on the API side from a perspective is in place. Then we just have to speak about the current CRM provider that the operator has. And then it's all about choosing what kind of information and data they want to pull out from our system. What are the triggers that pushes this, for example, gifting links forward. So it's an easy. easy process we just have to, I mean, different companies have different CRMs in place. So we have to just check what is the one that they are using. Of course, of course. And I know we've already sort of touched on some specific examples of the types of gifts that the Framme platform offers, but how do you sort of curate the range of gifts and come up with what gifts that you go into, give away? and maybe opening this up to everyone, you know, what are the most sort of, what are the best gifts that we've seen on the Framme platform? Well, I mean, I use Framme in a bit of a different way because I'm on the B2B side. So obviously my client base are our peers in the gaming industry. And therefore what we try to do with every time we're coming up with the client gift idea is we try to think of something that we haven't seen. somebody give out and if we have, we try to do it in like a bit of a, you know, more higher end. Fromme are great in the way like they come to us with like really unique brands that they work with, that they partner with. Like for example, with Hub 88, we gave out these backpacks, but they're from this company called Rains and everybody was like asking us for one, even after we like, we finished all of them, they're gone. People are still asking if it's possible to get one. So what we're trying to always do when we work with Femma is we sit together, we discuss, we come up with different types of ideas. They go out and literally scour everywhere and try to find us the best options, the best brands, the best quality. And then we work on how we're going to brand it. But it is always a challenge. Obviously, the gaming industry, we follow. seen everything already at this point. Everybody's always giving pretty much the same thing. So we're always trying to look for unique ideas and think outside the box. They're great to work with in that sense. They always help us come up with better ideas. Thank you, Robin. And Marco, would you like to chime in on how that process works? Would love to, because our perspective when it comes to these gifts, comes straight from our mission. So build meaningful connections in an increasingly sustainable way. meaning that if we create products that the recipient don't want, they are just waste. So that's why we really try to focus on creating high quality relevant products that will resonate. And that's why we also have the power of choice to the recipient. So they can in the end choose from three different options, for example, what is that they really want to have. And how we then differ from many others in this field is that our selection isn't limited to certain type of production. We can have as gifts everything from experiences like football tickets to high fashion to gift cards to naturally branded merchandise like hoodies and caps and something like that. So that's the way we... we work with the gifts. But then I'd like to add that the gifts, it's not just about the gifts itself that matter, the products, because you have to think of the whole kind of like experience of receiving a gift. And that is why we also like give the option that we can make custom-made packages to those gifts. We can make it speak the brand, we can add. handwritten notes into the packages so that the recipient actually feels that it's been given to them like really precisely to them because this is why we want to give it to them. So it's all about the whole process, not just about the individual kids. Mason. Fantastic. Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective on it. And just as we bring the conversation towards a close. I'd just like to take a look towards the future of VIP gifting and the whole experience around it. What trends should operators be aware of when thinking about planning their VIP strategies going forward? Sonja, maybe we could come to you first on this one. Sure. So, I mean, again, I think that customization, bespoke gifting, and I think the word Marko used was thoughtfulness, thoughtful. and sustainable. And I think that is definitely something I mean, as we all know, iGaming is a saturated market and how to really differentiate yourself from other companies, from other providers is to like, in my opinion, is going to be even more focused on the customer experience as a whole. So the whole process of the life cycle of like when You get your gifts on time, they are automated. There's not ever a moment where you're kind of not taken care of. And also, the details are more important, not an ever. Just as Mariko said about the logistics part of it, even packaging, everything. I think that people are so aware of quality these days and what they put their money on and what the competition is. that if you order something very expensive, like an expensive bag or perfume online or something, you expect it to come packaged in a certain way. You expect it to be an entire experience. And whether it comes and goes in trips like sports or hospitality or just gifting or Christmas gifts, or I also think it's really important to kind of spontaneously reward your customers. without any special surprise them if possible and really make them feel like, oh, okay, this is something that they're actually thinking about me. So I think that we can give all the fancy tech away, but if it's not done in the right way, maybe it's not as efficient. So I think in the future, of course, there's so much innovation and choice out there. So I think that the autonomy and personalization of the products and the smoothness of the whole process is super important. Absolutely. And Marco, in your opinion, what does the future hold for VIP gifting and perhaps what can we expect from Framme going forward? Well, I totally agree with what Sonja said. And we always have to remember that in the end, every player is a human being. when you feel appreciated and noticed, you're much more likely to stick around and increase your activity. So that's why in my opinion the future of VIP gifting, it's going to be driven by these three things. So personalization, what Sonja mentioned, optimization and data insights. So kind of like creating even like, I think hyper... personalization is kind of like a mega trend nowadays. So this is where VIP gifting is also moving towards. So we need data to know about the person who we are sending that gift to. And then we want to surprise them to kind of like get the emotion that we want to create with the gift. And Robin, any final thoughts on the future of VIP gifting? Well, I think right now, a big trend is like, I think the experiences, like these experience packages are extremely popular right now, giving a VIP, you know, the ultimate experience of, I don't know, let's say having them on a yacht for a few days or taking them, you know, to a football match, a personalized box. Those types of things are quite popular. And yeah, no, just keep everything very personalized. If you look at the influencer trend right now, everybody with filming, receiving gifts, and if you make them more personal, with your branding, with their name, with... everything then you'll get even more exposure for your brand as well as like they feel more like taken care of. So I think everything needs to be extremely personalised. Fantastic. Well, thanks ever so much Robin, Sonja and Marco. Thanks for joining us today and thanks to the listeners for tuning in and join us again next time on iGaming Daily.