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The fun & fascinating stories of Supply Chain & Logistics.
Bryndis 0:03
Hello. My name is Bryndis Whitson, and you're listening to the Zebras to Apples podcast, the fun and fascinating stories of supply chain logistics. Today's episode is all about sustainability. How do we make sure that our supply chains are sustainable? How do we make sure that we manage the environment and also the economy? Today we talked with my friend Leor Rothchild, sustainability expert in this field, and it's a great conversation, and you learn a lot of different things along the way. Thank you so much, and have a wonderful day. So we're here today with Lior Rothchild. And Lior and I have been friends almost 20 years now, now that I think of it.
Leor 0:48
That sounds about right, yes, Bryndis.
Bryndis 0:50
Because it was at the Cost AGM.
Leor 0:54
That sounds right. Yeah. I remember that. I guess we had an intern at COst that, like you and her, became besties. She introduced us, and immediately we were, talking politics and our first ever conversation.
Bryndis 1:10
And, yeah, well, I still remember, I think for me, I remember, like, our first meeting of, like, being at the cost AGM, and you were like, Oh, you remember, can you please second this motion? Yeah, nice to meet you. That was totally a cost moment, so.
Leor 1:34
Just on the subject of Cost is so wonderful. Calgary based international development organization that helps people around the world have clean drinking water, and their founder and CEO, Camille, just officially retired from there from their board. So yeah, had a nice going away lunch for her that I attended recently. That was wonderful.
Bryndis 1:56
Exactly, yeah, it was really I didn't get a chance to go, but I heard it was really good. So, yeah, and so, but you've been in so many different areas in your career, and I know you've kind of spanned everything from international development to oil and gas to sustainability. You know, when you look at your kind of career history so far, are there things that really kind of stand out like moments that you've really loved, positions that you've kind of really had passion for, probably all of them in different ways.
Leor 2:29
So yeah, I've been really fortunate in the sense that I just sort of made this decision, and I feel really privileged to be able to say this. But early on, I said I want to have a career that is 100% in line with my passion, and if I can make money doing it great, but I just want to follow my passion and see where the career takes me. And so I'm thankful I've been able to carve a whatever 20 year plus career that is filled with a number of things that I'm very proud of, and actually talking about Cost, which is the Center for affordable water and sanitation technology, is a great place to start. That was certainly a great milestone in the sense of creating a wonderful organization that has a massive global impact right from here in Calgary. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know what there's very much so there's this incredible, influential organization that's doing wonderful work in developing countries around the world, and is based in Calgary. The answer is absolutely yes. When I joined, it was really just a startup organization at the time, and I feel like a lot of the significant impact that I've had in my career has been in this sort of startup phase of different organizations launching different things. Another one that I'm really proud to have been associated with, and you mentioned my oil and gas career. So I did get to work for two of Canada's largest oil and gas companies. That's really where I cut my teeth, in sustainability and learning all about disclosure issues and stakeholder engagement issues, renewable energy, energy efficiency and a few other really topical subjects that we're all sort of wrestling with today, including climate and water issues. But following that period, I was involved with something called the energy futures lab.
Bryndis 4:31
Oh, right.
Leor 4:32
And so really there at the ground level, launching that initiative, which is celebrating 10 years this year, so.
Bryndis 4:40
Already, wow.
Leor 4:41
But also another one of these influential organizations that came around at a time when very few people were talking about energy transition and got together a number of stakeholders together, from academia, from oil and gas companies, innovation, clean tech, NGO, NGO sector and indigenous leaders to really chart a path forward for what energy transition and transformation could look like in Alberta and in Canada. So it was a wonderful initiative to have been part of, and I did run my own sustainable events company for a number of years. So also from international development, oil and gas and energy transition to events. Of course, that's the natural next step, isn't it?
Bryndis 5:35
I understand it completely, but.
Leor 5:38
That was kind of the book that I wrote last year, which is called 'How We Gather Matters: Sustainable Event Planning for Purpose and Impact' is really all about everything I've learned working with large event organizers like the Calgary Stampede and many others, and really informs my perspective around how events are this underutilized medium to create lasting legacy in the communities where they're hosted, and are really an opportunity to showcase innovation in the sense that people are hearing about it, they're interacting with what a sustainable future could look like, and it's just a really wonderful platform to showcase innovation. Yeah, and then I guess I'll just sort of cap it all off by talking about I did also have a wonderful career highlight in leading a national organization called Canadian Business for Social Responsibility, or CBSR. And what was unique about that was, I think we were able to really, it was a bit of a Zeitgeist moment, because when the pandemic hit, a number of sustainability professionals across the country were, you know, working in the finance sector and the energy sector and agriculture manufacturing. And they weren't meeting each other through conferences like they normally would be, but they were given a pathway to set a net zero target for their companies, and so we were able to establish CBSR as the ground zero for them to be able to learn from each other virtually at the beginning and then eventually in person, but learn from each other, compare notes and then really get support to develop a net zero pathway for their company and industry, and we helped them essentially launch those Net Zero targets. So it was a really interesting opportunity to really be in the room when a number of leading organizations across the country were preparing to launch their net zero targets. And it felt like an interesting moment in time, and we're now at this stage, several years later, where the whole question around net zero and sustainability is being questioned. And yes, and I, I think some people would see that as like, kind of a chapter closing. I don't see it that way. So the work that I'm doing currently is through my consulting company. I'm supporting companies who are wrestling with a number of issues, and it, I think the moment that we're actually in is saying, yeah, these ambitious targets that are 30 years away or 15 years away. Some companies are working towards 2030 goals. So that's five years away, and they just want to be real. They don't want to expose themselves, especially because there's greenwash legislation out there and a whole bunch of things that would penalize a company for being too ahead of where they actually are. I think the era that we're actually in, rather than saying we're turning the corner on all these things, why? Because I don't know, the president of the United States says we should. No, I think what we're actually in is a moment where people are saying, let's make this real. And if we don't have performance to talk about. Let's build it before we talk about it. And that's what I see happening there, is that companies are saying that we're going after this. We don't want to just brag and boast about it. We actually want to do it. And I think it's really wonderful that I'm able to speak to you today, Bryndis, because I know your focus has been around supply chains and procurement and I think that that is really where the magic happens. When you're talking about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, when you're talking about moving towards circular models, where what was once a waste product is now a valuable commodity that is an input product into manufacturing processes. It really is about, how do you source these things? How do you make that economic,and how do you gauge the entire value chain in that process. And so I think it's a recalibration of how these supply chains operate and the kind of relationship that suppliers, that B to B relationship, and for a company to actually achieve their net zero targets, it does require them to go to their supply chain and say, we need your help. Yes, we cannot achieve this unless you're achieving this. So let's support you to do that, and let's write into our base contracts and RFPs and the documents that really enable suppliers to do their work, to integrate this stuff. And when you look at what's actually happening out there, and the research leads us to conclude that, oh my gosh, we're at the very early stages of this, and there's a lot of work to be done.
Bryndis 11:21
Fully. And when you look at the entire supply chain, or whatever you know, is being sourced, there's so many different, like, different areas where things are being made, or, you know, all of those different kinds of areas that people are focusing on, too.
Leor 11:39
Yeah, you got it. And one challenge that I often hear people saying is, you know, we're, we're a small cog and a big machine. You know, how does one influence, like what Amazon Web Services does, how does one influence a large, you know, especially on the technology side of technology service provider to actually even submit their data to us, like, how can we possibly get that information and then report about our performance through our supply chain when we're such a small buyer in a large global market? And there's no easy answer to that, but one answer to that is it's time to start through collaborative networks and coalitions. It's time to start through the documents that you put out there for bidding, and it's time to start actually looking at what smaller suppliers can I be diverting a small percentage of my contract work to as they build their capacity to one day be able to provide this in a really large, significant way, that is part of where the economy is going. So how do we invest in where the economy is going?
Bryndis 13:00
Well even if you're going for an RFP or a contract or anything like that, adding in your kind of, you know, sustainability portion to that contract, even if it's on asked, could be one of those areas too.
Leor 13:15
Yeah, absolutely. One example that I can point to is so. So last year I was contracted. I was subcontracted under a company called Upswing solutions, and the team there built, I think, a really world class program that we were able to roll out to Aviva insurance company. And so Aviva Canada is a subsidiary of a larger entity based in the UK, and globally, they've set this very aggressive 2040, Net Zero target. And so the Canadian team is very much aligned with that goal, and what they are doing, which I think is a best practice, and frankly, I would love to work with more companies to replicate or capture the lessons from this, to be able to roll this out in a more significant way. But they had this supplier accelerator program where they were providing training, and the training was like taking companies who were their suppliers, a lot of them are restoration companies, okay, for an insurance company, right? The restoration company has a significant impact, right? A lot of what they're doing, which is kind of like pulling out, you know, like the floors of homes that have been hit by floods, things like that, sending it to landfill. There's definitely a significant impact there, and they're taking these companies through this training program from the point where they have little to zero knowledge about sustainability to the point where they have a system in place where they're gathering and measuring their greenhouse gas emissions, and then to the point where they're even submitting that data, along with a number of ambitious targets, to something called this science based targets initiative. So SBTI, it's a kind of a global framework. So often people ask me, you know, when it comes to sustainability, are there governance models? Are there sort of assurances and certification bodies? SBTI is one example of that. It's an international organization that does provide a certification or an assurance that yes this methodology is aligned with what we know about science and the science based targets that make up the sort of global agreements around you know the you would have heard about the Paris Agreement and sort of the UN endorsed processes for aligning with science based climate targets. So the SBTI is a mechanism that enables even small businesses to have, you know, like a credible science aligned target and so what I think was also unique about this program that Aviva ran was because they're taking these small companies through this educational program, some of these companies at the end of this program would still say, Yeah, okay, now we have some tools that we got through this program to measure our impacts and our performance and our greenhouse gas emissions, but we still need a bit of hand holding to actually like do that on an annual basis and really help the system for it internally and then submit it to SBTI and go through their process. And so Aviva actually paid us to support those companies, essentially being on retainer to give them a consulting level of support through that process. And I just feel like, yeah, why don't more companies do that? I just think it's a really great model. I mean, so great that it was definitely recognized. It won a major national award, I guess, earlier this year.
Bryndis 17:29
Congratulations.
Leor 17:30
Yeah, well, congratulations to the entire team. Yeah, team at Aviva for having that foresight. But yeah, it was recognized as a best practice. And so I think that I'm proud to be able to share that story, because I think that it's one that could and should be replicated, and one that I hope to work with many more companies to be able to to develop similar kinds of programs.
Bryndis 17:54
I love that idea, and I really like the empowerment of other organizations, and then also assisted, like the larger organization, also helping the other organization all the way through it too.
Leor 18:07
And in my consulting work, I see that there are smaller companies, so small and medium based, medium level companies who are saying, Yeah, I need a system like that, because we're trying to land clients who need to report on this stuff to the federal government. So a lot of federally regulated companies, so anybody in insurance, anybody in finance, but also like organizations like Canada Post, Air Canada, so these are all federally regulated organizations. Anybody that's trying to land business with them would need to have a science aligned climate target, because that's what these organizations are going to make their procurement decisions based on so it's interesting, because one could say that, what are the mechanisms to actually get companies to embrace sustainability? Some might say, well, we need to regulate them, you know, get the government to put all these rules on them. I think we're in this kind of like era right now, and you're seeing this in the sort of the pushback on sustainability, where people are feeling like they're over regulated. They need to have cleaner, clearer, simpler rules to actually build infrastructure. So that's a very clear message that I think was a big part of the recent federal election campaign, right people? So we're heard, I think and so regulation is this one mechanism, the other is the investor market. So investors are saying, hey, like we've seen that when we track this stuff over time, companies that have a sophisticated approach around sustainability and have a detailed climate mitigation plan and disclosure on what their actual emissions footprint looks like, typically are better managed companies, and especially in downturn cycles, they tend to outperform other companies in their sector who don't have those sophisticated levels of disclosure and sustainability programming. So that's what the investors are looking at and so one might say, oh, okay, so in addition to regulation as one option, investor pressure, investor questions, motivation from investors is another way to get sustainability to take hold in the market. But then there's this whole other side of the economy, which is that the majority of companies that make up our economy are not publicly traded companies. Many of them are small businesses. And so what is their motivator? Well, I think it really comes down to who their customers are and what their customers are asking them for. So if it's a B to B Company, and they're trying to do business with a company that is publicly traded, does have an investor pressure, or is federally regulated, does have that regulatory pressure, then obviously they need to be there. And the other factor is, if their customers are B to C kind of businesses and we as consumers are saying we want to see a more sophisticated approach. We want companies to be aligned with globally accepted practices around what it means to be a company in line with where the future of the economy is going, and having a clear sense of what your greenhouse gas footprint is, is kind of like one metric in that, in that sort of broad area of of work, then we can influence the economy as consumers. I think that a lot of people just don't know they have that power.
Bryndis 22:23
True, I don't think they really do, because they don't think they see or have the time sometimes to see that far.
Leor 22:31
And hey, you know, as somebody with young kids, we're all busy, you know, like at the grocery shop decision point, you know, when you're looking at, you know, what's more expensive, this or that a company's sustainability footprint may or may not make it into that decision.
Bryndis 22:51
But everyone can understand that, but at times it does, and that's where we kind of start to shift our mindsets, just as consumers or as businesses in that kind of shift, and sometimes the shift is slow, but sometimes it's more you get enough people starting to switch. That's when this entire school of thought switches too.
Leor 23:15
Absolutely and just in that same, you know, going back to something I said earlier in that same line of thinking, if a company was to say, if I even divert just a small percentage of my total spend to nurture these suppliers who are maybe not yet sort of global players or able to meet my entire need, but I can divert some business to them, and as they grow, we have a relationship that grows, similarly I think consumers can also say, You know what? For some of the stuff I spend money on, I'm really price sensitive, but for a couple of items, you know, whether, maybe it's your toilet paper. Maybe it's, you know, like, good quality food that you put in your fridge. I'm gonna divert a percentage of that towards the companies that are certified B Corp. So B Corp is a certification that says these are companies that are very actively giving back to the community, and they have a basic way of measuring their sustainability footprint as well. And so that's kind of one metric look for that B Corp label, or, yeah, you know, I've done sort of a very basic kind of scan, and I know that this company is, you know, part of this global conglomerate that, you know, doesn't seem to care about this stuff, versus this other company that has a reputation. You know what? I'm going to spend a little bit more on this particular item. Maybe not everything that I buy that's in my shopping cart. But this item, I'm gonna, like, support the growth of this organization that's really trying to do the right thing. So I think if more people think of it that way, this is like, we're not, we're not going full, you know, full steam into, like, basing every single decision, you know, on climate change or every single decision on sustainability performance, but that every year we're kind of doing something new. Yeah, you know, this year I'm going to support these particular brands who I know are trying to move the needle and shift the economy and change their industry. That's where to park your money.
Bryndis 23:16
And where, if you're deciding to do that and saying, Okay, I want to make a conscious effort to really be aware. And are there different places that you look? Are there different websites? Are there different kinds of- where does, where does someone learn to do that?
Leor 23:16
Yeah, that's a good question, because I think you know, you're talking to somebody who's, like, pretty deep in the nerd cave on this stuff. So for me, I feel like, doesn't everybody know? No, I know it's not normally accessible to, like, folks who aren't paying close attention to this. But I mentioned already that B Corp label, and I think very well of the whole B Corp organization, and it's kind of a, I would go so far as to say the B Corp movement, because it's really a movement of companies that have made a very clear decision that they want to build a better future, and a better economy and so I think, yeah, shopping for companies that are certified B Corps is definitely one way to do that. And I would just say that for any organization that has on their website a measurement of their greenhouse gas emissions is on the right path, because I just think we're still in this age where that stuff is voluntary for many companies, but it won't always be. I think it'll be just sort of a minimum expectation going forward, especially as we cross some of these thresholds, like a lot of companies are working towards their 2030, and 2040, and 2050, climate targets. And I think as some of those dates get a little closer, coupled with some of the extreme weather events that we are seeing more and more, because as we get closer to those dates that I just talked about, all the very credible science Nobel laureates who are telling us this is the new normal, that like this stuff is only going to get worse, and if we don't do anything to mitigate the emissions impact of the modern industrial economy, that it will be unlivable. And so it's, you know, I also want to just sort of inject a little bit of hope into this, because you know, some folks, at least in my sort of circle are reading right now, you know that like ESG, and ESG is environment social governance, business practices and sustainability is like on its way out. And you know, Donald Trump is like, killing the renewable energy industry and blah, blah, blah, like all this is, you know, very negative news that some people would be exposed to. And then, you know, sort of compiled with, like, a recent interview with David Suzuki, who's, you know, like, for many would know, is, like, been a long time advocate activist on the subject of climate change, and he, and you know, his late 80s is now saying we've lost this battle, you know, like it's all about adaptation. Now we just need to adapt to, like, an increasingly warm climate and extreme weather events. I don't share that perspective. Personally. I think that everything that we do from here, projecting out into the future in the spirit of lowering our footprint on this planet, is going to save lives and is going to help us build a new, more future centric economy. And there's none of that that is not worth working on, because the economic payoff of getting it right is huge. It's competitive too. There are many countries around the world, in Asia, the Middle East, Europe, that are very actively positioning themselves for this future economy, and in North America, we are in danger of being left behind, and we can easily do that because we have taken for granted for a long time that the US, which has been our main trading partner for us, has been leading the way, and as long as our economies are linked will be fine. That's no longer a guarantee for so many reasons.
Bryndis 25:15
Many, many, many reasons.
Leor 25:15
Some of that, right, but the US itself is in danger of being left behind, of where the economy globally is going, and getting a handle on greenhouse gas emissions is table stakes. It is a minimum activity that businesses are being expected to do, and any effort in that direction is going to one, position companies to be part of that economic future, and two position humans as being more able to adapt to a changing climate and a changing planet.
Leor 25:15
So if we go out on a higher level view, and then drill it down to one individual, so if you look at kind of the idea of sustainability, and kind of everyone has different definitions of what is sustainability. And so kind of looking at your definition of that, but then going down into where we as individuals have our own sustainable impact? Or where can you know companies have those impacts, whether in their supply chains, whether in their businesses, etc, too. I know big question.
Leor 31:43
Well, I think we spoke to some of it already, you know this idea of looking at what part of the economy are you currently participating in, whether it's your daily shopping decisions, or if you, you know, work in a company where you're making decisions based on, like, your company's priorities. There are definitely companies that you can be supporting, suppliers and vendors that you can be supporting to increase their impact, to be able to grow as companies that provide services, features, benefits in line with the sustainability outcomes, whether it be positive community legacy, whether it's employing disenfranchised people who are who have traditionally been locked out of the economy, or whether it's reinvesting in nature, Whether it's ensuring that their processes are much more in balance with nature and and sustainability concepts, and definitely that they're measuring their greenhouse gas emissions, again, as like a basic requirement, I think the more that we do as consumers and as buying companies to support the growth of that is positive. One other area that we haven't touched on that I think is an interesting one is public sector companies, public sector organizations and governments. I do think it's a bit rich to sort of pass regulations that require the private sector to move in this direction. And yet governments, typically, who are huge spenders of capital, like billions of dollars, are being spent on, you know, a lot of, like, really important stuff, infrastructure, and you know, different levels of government are spending money on different things, right? Like, federally, there's like, military spending that's huge. Provincially, there's, you know, health, education, that's the there's a lot of money that goes there. Municipally, it's like, roads, transportation,
Bryndis 33:58
Lighting streets, yeah,
Leor 33:59
Yeah. And the built environment generally, and they're contracting, you know, the same old suppliers that have always kind of delivered this stuff. And I think there is a whole new, very innovative, like, series of sectors and companies that are providing all those same services, including infrastructure, that are doing things like taking CO2, carbon dioxide, taking it out of industrial processes, turning it into materials, like building materials, using it as part of concrete, cement and concrete to actually build buildings like, why isn't government mandating that in the infrastructure that they're using to build our roads and our bridges? Especially because this material is being shown to be stronger and better and lower cost at times, not always lower cost, but definitely has a lot more longevity. When I talk to people in government about this, especially my role with CBSR, Canadian business for social responsibility, we did a lot of engagement with government on this topic of sustainable public procurement, and we had a lot of research that basically said there's very little of it actually being done right? The cities are leading the way. So where it is,
Bryndis 35:29
A lot of different pilot projects.
Leor 35:31
There's a lot of municipalities that understand this and are moving in this direction. And there's some great examples. Federally, I think there's some pilot projects in this direction, but it's limited, and provincially, there's a massive gap. It's a massive gap. So there's a lot of work to be done, to I think, revise public procurement processes, to do, just as I said, to divert a percentage of their spend towards suppliers who are very sophisticated in their sustainability approach and are very innovative and are very much in line with where the future of the economy is going, should be going, and How it can help Canada to position itself economically and do more business with countries that we want to be doing more business with. But it just seems like change is slow. And again, based on my conversations with people in government, they have said, well, we're still, you know, trying to move towards an electronic system from our Excel based programs. So give us some time where they're saying, well, there's a lot of complex stuff here. We're also trying to figure out how to integrate indigenous business spend into this, and I don't know. We just need some clear policy direction before we move on any of it. Or they're saying, Yes, we are developing some pilot projects, and we're about to launch something, and they've since, actually, launched a program where, if the spend is more than two $50 million it does have these climate related requirements, it's good it's a good start. $250 million basically means, you know, a couple of companies who already have a sophisticated sustainability approach should keep doing what they're doing. It does not trickle out and impact the rest of the economy, and it does not affect the kind of change we need. So we need to see those kinds of requirements for big government contracts to be in all government contracts, or at least a percentage of all government contract decisions.
Bryndis 37:55
Definitely well, and even when you were just talking there about, you know, different moments to impact change and different opportunities. So you were talking about a whole bunch of different areas, but one of the things that I wanted to kind of highlight, too, is something that you mentioned, you know, you've written a book kind of all about, you know, how we gather matters, but also about sustainability and events. But the part that I always kind of emphasize just whenever I'm regularly talking to people, is events are all logistics, and so the interconnection between sustainability events and stuff like that is fully a supply chain, logistics full thing too.
Leor 38:42
Yeah, thank you for bringing it back to my book. I writing that book was a fun experience, because I essentially got to take everything that I've learned throughout my career around sustainability and write a business book about it and use events as this almost like pop culture landscape to talk about it, because the examples I give are from the Calgary Stampede, the Calgary folk music festival, as well as the FIFA World Cup, Burning Man, the big climate conferences that happen around the world. So these are the examples, and they're all story stories. You know, what's going on behind the scenes, what were the decisions and events? You're right? Is this incredible Canvas to talk about this stuff, because you're talking about huge impacts as it relates to people traveling. So transportation is a big thing, the food and beverage decisions, so that's a big part of it, the venues and the built environment. There's a lot of examples where sustainability shows up and yet, just like I was talking about how we're still at the early stages of integrating sustainability into procurement and supply chain decisions, events, is also at the early stages of integrating sustainability into every aspect of place, making and gathering and the experiences that are provided to people who are traveling, in some cases, from around the world to experience something. So there's a lot of work to do there, and I'm very fortunate to be able to work with a few organizations that are doing some really meaningful work in this area, yeah, just, you know, sort of also a shout out to Destination Canada, who I think were very, I think very, maybe, maybe some people do know about some of the the work that they're doing around sustainability and really, yeah, and contributions towards indigenous tourism in Canada. But I think it's an untold story still, and so I think that that's a really interesting organization that we can be really proud of as Canadians to know that they represent us, globally, and are attracting all these international events to come to Canada and saying, Hey, if you are focused on sustainability, you should, you should be doing your event in Canada, because we can help support you to make sure that it's in line with your climate ambitions, and we can help to ensure that it's also benefiting people in the community, including indigenous communities who would really love to have these tourism dollars come our way.
Bryndis 41:26
Yeah. Well, if you think of it through your company or an event that you did, or something like that, is there one that kind of stands out as a fun event where you learned a lot, but also had fun no matter what along the way?
Leor 41:42
Thanks for the question. This is the thing about events, they're always fun. I love events, so it's been a big part of my career. I would say, ran that sustainable events company for a number of years. And I would if I Yeah, if I was going to give you one example of something that, and it was interesting the way you asked it, what I learned through that? I'll give you an example of something that I helped to build with the Calgary Stampede. It's a very local example. And what we did was we built, essentially a recycling and compost program with them over many years. And it was interesting when the pandemic hit and the Calgary Stampede closed their doors for the first time in more than 100 years,
Bryndis 42:31
We will ride again. Wait, fully, yeah, everything completely switched.
Leor 42:35
It was, you know, it was a massive, you know, blow to everyone, including the city of Calgary. When they were then rebuilding all of their programs post pandemic, the folks that really wanted these recycling compost programs to come back were actually the food vendors at the Calgary Stampede. They were saying, we really want you to bring that environmental program back. And what I know of working with those food vendors over many years is that we built a program that really helped to meet their needs, because if, if these food vendors on throughout the Calgary Stampede didn't have, like, a recycling compost program, if they didn't have people coming to their sort of back areas and collecting all their food waste and, you know, and then transporting around the park to make sure it got to the right places and and was then, you know, sort of carried off site and in the right way, then they themselves would have to take time away from selling and cooking food for people dragging heavy, heavy bags of waste across the, you know, the Midway field to like, giant bins that they'd have to somehow figure out how to, like, toss this stuff in there. It's not a good use of their time. No, it doesn't make them any money. So having this service was really positive for the food, for the food vendors. And then when you've got, when you've got, like these vendors that are a significant part of the Stampede experience, saying, we love this environmental program, then you've got the stampede saying, Okay, well, great. Well, we'll keep resourcing it then, and so it becomes a sustainable program. It's not just doing good work for the environment. It is providing value. And it's not the first thing you cut when times are tough. It becomes kind of a permanent part of the way it's done. So that was a significant lesson for me, how do you build something in a way that would really be missed if it didn't happen? Because it adds so much value. And the other thing that I learned is when we were asked to bring that program back after the pandemic was over, the team that I had originally built, who were kind of running that program like clockwork, had all gone their separate ways, so we had to rebuild a team. We had to do it in kind of record time, and I had this chance encounter with somebody from the Center for newcomers. Oh, yeah. And together, we partnered on rebuilding this composting recycling program, which has actually grown since then, to be a whole kind of, like larger waste management program. But we built it with newcomers to Canada and refugees from countries like Afghanistan, Syria and the Ukraine. We're running this program. I've been for a few years now. And the social impact to that, the community impact to that, is so tremendous. Yeah, the impact it's had on these people's lives and their families, and their families back home in the countries that they came to Canada from, the ripple effects of that are amazing. And for somebody to have, like their first Canadian work experience be at the Calgary Stampede. I mean, it's one of the most recognizable brands in North America. So it's significant, and so yeah, again, what I learned is, build a program that not only does good work for the environment, but is something that people realize they can't do without. And the second thing is make sure that it also has a significant impact on people, right? Because people are really inspired by something that makes people's lives better and helps to create jobs and better our community, not everybody connects with this idea of the environment. They kind of like it. Some people are removed from it. Some people are removed from nature. Some people are removed from, you know, and I've spent a career talking about, you know, reducing greenhouse gas emissions by X number of tons and diverting X number of tons of waste away from the landfill. And people hear those numbers and they say, is that? Is that good? Is that, like, a big number? Is that, yeah, because what is that equivalent to? Um, if you were to put that in like volume, like, how many swimming pools is that? How many elephants? Does that equal to how many cars are off the road? Like people want to make sense of,
Bryndis 42:35
Exactly, they need the visual.
Leor 42:35
But when you talk about, like, the positive impact on humans and on jobs, and how it's changing people's lives, and they're learning how to do something that is positioning them to be part of the new economy, an economy that is in more in balance with nature and a solution to the changing environment and the extreme weather events that we're seeing. Then people connect to that.
Leor 43:00
Well, it's really neat, too. And I just even like all of those areas. And then I just realized for myself that a lot of time sustainability projects, or are bigger than you realize, because as a person who's just going to the stampede, all I see are the bins right, and I keep on walking, or hopefully I'll put them in the right, you know, area, but that's where I just think of, I never once thought of the food vendors. I never thought of the bigger impacts, the bigger venues. I've always just seen that area where it's just, you know, do I compost this? Do I recycle this? Is this garbage? But that other bigger impact that's huge.
Speaker 1 47:12
I think I appreciate you sharing that sort of epiphany there, because this is another reason why I like events and why I wrote a book about it, regardless of the business activity you're running. And obviously we're talking a lot about supply chains today. I think it helps to kind of, like, think of all of these activities in the way that events people do. They think of things that are front of house and back of house, and a lot of the logistics and yeah, like everything that you just reflected on when it comes to, like, the bins that people might see that's, you know, like your front of house, and then the like, what's happening with your food vendors and the waste that they're producing and the chopping and the cooking, you know, all that's like back of house, getting both right is important, and even if the audience doesn't necessarily see what's happening back a house, if something is happening back at house that is a reputation or credibility risk, it winds up being front of house in a way that you don't want it to be. Yeah, and so getting both right is important, whether it's like your packaging, yeah, kind of what's on your label, that's kind of your front of house, and like, where you're sourcing your materials, that's your back of house. And you need to get both right.
Bryndis 50:33
And I think there's so many different areas too, that, you know, my brain from a number of years ago is sparking of like, Oh, and there was this, you know, all of the sustainability here, and then the year speed this website that we'd go to, and we'd realize about this one product, or sometimes you don't realize that one company owns a lot of companies. And so it's not just one company. It's actually a big, huge conglomeration, and they're actually all connected in different ways. And so there's these kinds of, you know, areas too, that we take for granted or we don't even think about because we've talked about events, we've talked about big business, we've talked about those areas. But even when you look at clothing, and you think of the sustainability in clothing, where is it being made? Where is it going? Where is it coming from, and what happens to it at the end? All of those aspects in between, between. And there's so many different spots where sustainability really has an impact too.
Leor 51:41
Absolutely. And there, I mean, you gave the example of clothing there, yeah, there's a whole kind of sustainable fashion movement that's afoot and famous designers that are looking at replacing materials that we commonly know, including leathers and things with like fruit based and starch based materials, like, yeah, cactus and all kinds of other sort of, like leathers that are finding their way into a mainstream market now and then, yeah, the whole kind of, like backlash against fast Fashion, it's really interesting. And some of that kind of relates to, I've mentioned the idea of circularity before, the idea that a waste product could be an input product. But this idea of creating circular models within an industry like textiles and fashion is also like a game changing kind of idea, and it seems like the industry is adapting, and some of the largest clothing makers in the world are now moving in this direction. And so I would think that anybody who's not looking at these issues might be missing a really big sort of industry movement, and one other at the risk of bringing up something new here, but I think it fits with what you're talking about in terms of the sourcing, the you know, sort of the end of life of these materials. More and more countries, including Canada, are bringing forward regulations around, or at least disclosure requirements around what kind of labor issues are associated with these processes. So the board of directors needs to be signing off. This is Canadian law now, board of directors need to be signing off that they either knowingly or don't know of any slave labor issues associated with their supply chain. So they are literally like signing a document that says, either we we have heard of some violations and we believe that they're being addressed, or we have no idea of any violations, human rights violations in our supply chain, they now have to disclose that, and and if it comes out later that these companies do know something, or they're choosing not to know about something like what a huge legal risk companies are increasingly facing. And so I think this is another aspect of the sustainability of buying decisions that absolutely do need to be calculated when people are making both consumer and procurement decisions to have businesses and governments.
Bryndis 54:32
So when you look back at your career you know, which is still evolving, of course. Do you have any advice for someone who you know might want to start out in this industry or career pivot and from where they are now to joining into this industry. Any advice that you'd give someone.
Leor 54:52
I have basically been in sustainability of some kind throughout my career. Yeah, and I've enjoyed, you know, a long career that's still, that's still progressing, as you say, and so I think that it's like, I'm really excited to welcome other people to get into this space and encourage them to think about the idea that, like you might be interested in, say, like climate change, and want to help an organization, you know, calculate their greenhouse gas emissions, but then you might wind up doing something crazy, like I did, and starting like a sustainable events business, or, you know, working with an organization on energy transition issues, or developing some circular economy models for an industry or company, it's quite a broad area, and then, of course, there's a huge investment side of it, like there's people who Do nothing but evaluate like the sustainability performance of companies to make investment decisions, is this kind of company that's disruptive and having a positive impact and profitable. So there's a really interesting career path that one could carve for themselves in this space. So don't be afraid to jump into something without, and develop a specialty that says, yeah, here's what I'm able to offer to people, whether it's I can crunch greenhouse gas emissions data, you know, that's kind of like or I understand the complexity of the climate disclosure, or disclosure in general, because there's so many changing rules as it relates to companies sustainability disclosure, if you're somebody that wants to follow that closely and understand kind of where it's going and and what's what the current rules are. There's a real need for that, and having something that is kind of like something that people need, or companies need to be able to provide that as kind of like your entry point, you know, then you can build all kinds of specialties, and then go from being highly specialized to being highly generalized, like I am, you know, definitely, like, more of a generalist in the sense that, yeah, I guess that's, I call myself a sustainability generalist because, yeah, because there's strategy, there's impact work, there's, you know, I would say that, like a lot of my world these days is working on events and but then, obviously, I talked about that example that I worked on with Aviva insurance that is very much a supplier engagement program. So there's so many different paths, all of it, I think, can serve a really broad purpose of ensuring that we're positioning our economy to be one that nurtures businesses to be a force for good in the world.
Bryndis 58:16
I wanted to really thank you for sharing your thoughts, your ideas. And you know, I think this really showcases some of the amazing conversations that we've kind of have had over the years and continue to have. And I think the importance of impact that you bring to not only Calgary, nationally, globally, and I think you've made a really great impact there, and you'll continue to do so, and our world is better to have you in it. So thank you so much.
Leor 58:49
Bryndis, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to join you on the program, and I think it's wonderful what you're doing, and encourage you to keep doing it. Thank you. Bryndis.
Bryndis 59:04
Thank you for listening to this Zebras to Apples podcast episode. I hope you enjoyed the showcase of the fun and fascinating stories of supply chain logistics. If you liked this episode, I would love it if you could give it a rating and review. For more information about this topic, you can go to zebrastoapples.com or follow Zebras to Apples on the social media platform of your choosing, whether that's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter X, Blue Sky or LinkedIn. You can support the show on Patreon. Also check out the show notes below. Please join me again for another episode of Zebras to Apples. Have a wonderful day.