W3GMS Monday Night Workbench Net

Harvey KC3NZT leads a lively night on the 146.985 Workbench, where operators share their weekly radio adventures before diving into a round of great technical questions. The group trades ideas on low-profile HF antennas, reviews real-world experiences with the Hustler 5BTV, and then goes deep into classic gear by discussing Clipperton L amplifier tuning, keying, and protection. The conversation keeps rolling with tips on pairing modern speakers to vintage rigs and even a quick detour into finding comfortable earpieces for FRS radios. As always, it’s a mix of practical problem-solving, shared experience, and plenty of good 985 camaraderie.

What is W3GMS Monday Night Workbench Net?

Every Monday Evening at 8pm Eastern Time, the W3GMS/R Crew get together on the repeater at 146.985Mhz and discuss technical questions and sometimes do lessons related to Ham Radio for newer Operators to learn from experienced Elmers. The Workbench was set up to be a safe place for any technical questions to get asked and good answers to be given.

Good evening and welcome to the 146.985 Monday Night Workbench. My name is Harvey KC3NZT. I reside in Malvern, Pennsylvania and I will be your net control operator for this installment of the workbench.

The workbench is a directed technical net that operates every Monday night at 8 p.m. on the W3GMS repeater in Parksburg, Pennsylvania. The goal of this net is to answer questions and to discuss topics of a technical nature to further the aim of amateur radio.

Information regarding the repeater, its owner, repeater operating practices, and our regular get-togethers both on the air and off can be found at the website www.w3gmsrepeater.com.

The repeater uses a negative 600 kHz offset and is accessed with a PL tone of 100 Hz. There is a 3 minute timeout timer on the repeater. Please let off your push-to-talk for a moment if your transmission will exceed the 3 minute timer so it can reset. Like this.

Please wait about a second between hitting the push-to-talk and speaking. Otherwise we will miss the first part of your transmission.

Occasionally the repeater has Intermod present. I believe I hear it in there right now.

Please run high power or be prepared to check in digitally.

If Intermod is present, please call out and ask the host if you are making it so we don't miss your transmission.

Tonight we will begin with digital check-ins, followed by RF check-ins.

When you check in, please indicate if you have a question for the net.

Once check-ins have been completed, I will begin by asking stations to make a brief comment on what you did this week in amateur radio, in a round table style format.

Please note the station that follows you in the rotation so you know whom to address following your comments.

After general comments, I will begin the directed question portion of the net.

Newcomers are very welcome and we encourage all stations to check in even if they don't have a question.

Let's begin. This is Harvey KC3NZT asking for digital check-ins. Please call now.

Good evening, Harvey, and to the workbench. This is Mr. Mike from Marblehead, Massachusetts. Go ahead.

W-8-C-R-W-C-R. No question.

Good evening, Harvey. This is Manny AC3NW from Bel Air, Maryland.

Good evening, Harvey. This is Manny AC3NW from Bel Air, Maryland. We have some D-X on the digital check-ins. Are there any other digital check-ins that wish to check in? Please call now. This is KC3NZT.

Okay, nothing heard. RF check-ins. Please call now. This is KC3NZT.

Yes, F. WA3 King Fox Tango. WA3 KFT.

WA3, Sierra Charlie, Yankee.

Alpha 3, Victor Echo Echo, WA3 VEE.

VD3EE, Kilo Delta 3 Echo Echo.

Okay, I've got five of you there. Can I please ask for the prefix on 3FF? 3FOXTROT. I didn't get your prefix.

get your prefix. 3 Foxtrot, Foxtrot, the name is Renee and I have a question. Thank you very much, Renee. I've got you marked down here for a question. So far on the RFs, I feel like there's more in there. I've got Renee K3FF. Oh, I messed that up already on my book here. And I have John WA3KFT, KC3SCYLuke, and WA3VE

Ron and KD3EE. I know the voice, but I have not learned that call sign yet. Are there any other RF check-ins? Please call now. Alpha Foxtrot, 3 Zulu. Kilo, Charlie, 3 Oscar, Oscar, Kilo.

Okay, very good. I have, let's see, 1234567 RF check-ins.

3 FF, Renee. I have WA3KFT, John. I have KC3SCY, Luke. We can bump you to the top, Luke, if you'd like. Just let me know.

WA3VE Ron, KD3EE AF3Z, KC300K. Any other RF check-ins?

Nothing heard. Luke, let me know. Do you want me to bump you up to the top of the list there for comments, or are you able to stay in for the whole time?

I'm able to stay here the whole time. Back to you. This is KC3SCY.

Awesome. Glad to hear it. Okay, from the top, I have W1RC, WA3CRW, KC3NW, KC3FF, WA3KFT, KC3SCY, WA3VE, KD3EE, AF3Z, KC300K, and then back to me.

Are there any other check-ins, digital or RF or otherwise, before we begin? Please call now.

Okay.

Nothing heard. Over to you, Mr. Mike. Let us know what you did this week in ham radio, and then pass it over to CR. This is KC3NZT.

Very good. Very good, Harvey. Good evening to everybody on the workbench tonight. This is W1RC, transmitting from beautiful Marblehead in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Let's see. I went to a Fester. I went to a first-time flea market down in Rhode Island. Rhode Island is not too far away. It's an hour and a half.

This was the Providence Radio Association, the PRA. And I know a lot of guys in the PRA. A lot of them come up to Nearfest.

And our sergeant and I, Paul E. W1 PRA, is a member of the PRA. Anyways, they had their first flea market ever this year on Sunday, and they had it the same day as the last MIT flea market of the season.

So I had to make a choice. But I did. I decided to go to the radio flea market. Boy, I'm sure glad I did.

Maybe they had 15 tables there, but there was wonderful stuff. Oh, my good Lord. I just don't even know where to start. What I bought there, very short money. And let me just reset this.

Got to see some friends, and we had a good time. Went out and had a nice lunch afterwards. Nice, leisurely drive home. Nice day. Beautiful day for a Fester, especially the first one.

So one of the things I got was a Tentech 555 Scout, which is one of my favorite radios to play with and to work on. It's a nice little radio. It uses plug-in modules for the different bands.

And it's a great CW radio. It's really nice. It's got a variable bandwidth in it. You can adjust the bandwidth continuously so you're not stuck on presets for the bandwidth.

But I just got it out here with its belly up with the cover off, taking a look around inside to see what it looks like. Very clean radio. I got two of them.

One of them didn't have any modules, so I got that one real cheap. And then another one had a couple of modules. I bought that one, too.

Oh, my good Lord. Now I think I've got five of them in the house. So what do you think of that? Anyway, I'll turn it over to my good friend, C.R., and let him tell you what he did this week. Go ahead, C.R. This is W1RC.

Thank you, Mr. Mike. Good evening, all. This is C.R. and Harvey, thank you for taking the chair tonight. Let's see. This week in ham radio is pretty reasonable.

normal 985 activities, including a good breakfast this past Friday up at the Brass Eagle. Some nets on other networks, and that's about it. Let's see. I believe it goes to Maddie. Unfortunately, I didn't catch your call sign, but I believe you're in Bel Air, Maryland. So pick it up.

Thank you, sir. I didn't know. I'm not very good at catching names. I'm a C.R., I think is what I heard. But thank you for that. Manny is the name. And again, from Bel Air, Maryland. Didn't do a whole lot of operations this week. I spent a lot of time budgeting what I can afford here to set up an HF and T.R.

I can afford here to set up an HF and 2-meter workstation here. And that led me to the questions that I have, which we can talk about later, or at least one question. So, yeah, I think I got the budget down. It kind of depends on what type of transceivers I can afford. I think it's probably the main consideration. Looking at different antenna options,

different pricings for that, how much space I have in the yard, what will be acceptable to the neighborhood, per se. So a bunch of those types of activities. So I think I've looked forward to hearing some input on definitely antennas and possibly transceivers. So that was my week.

And so I will turn it over to, I believe the name is John, WA3KFT, I believe it is. So please take it.

John Can you hear real quick, Matty? Next was K3FF, Renee. I believe, oh, I'm so sorry. I made a mistake. I'm looking at my list wrong. You are correct. It's John WA3KFT. Apologies. KC3NZT. Over to you, John.

WA3KFT. I thought I heard you call. Ah, let's see here.

This weekend, Ham Radio did a bunch of nets, that's what. And we put the garden to bed. We dug up the carrots, the beets, the potatoes, and tilled it. So now we're good until next spring. So, and the rhubarb is on its last legs at this point.

Over to Luke, KC3SCY WA3KFT.

KC3SCY WA3KFT. This is KC3SCY. Good to hear everybody on the net tonight. And Harvey, thanks for hosting. So this week in Ham Radio, I've just been working on my CW. I heard some stations on the 40 around 6 o'clock, but I got on around 2 and I didn't hear anybody. Well, at least on CW. And I've just been working on this transmitter.

I got all the parts I have mounted. So, I need to mount the last couple parts, get those and mount them and then I can wire that up. And then do the power supply. So, not too much else going on here. Had off from school today. So, I got school tomorrow. Over to you, Ron. W-8-3-V-E-E. This is KC3SCY.

Good Luke, great to hear you, great to hear everybody tonight. This is WA3VEE again, welcome to Manny and welcome to Renee. Renee, it was good to see you yesterday at the RF Hill Ham Fest up in Perkesey, which is one of the things I did in this last week. And before that, the 985 breakfast, I missed the one in September, so it was good to see everybody again.

And also, I'll keep it brief here because you've got a nice list. Harvey, thanks for doing the net tonight. Great to hear you as always. For everyone, including technician class licensees, and I'll get to that part in a second here, this is your opportunity this coming weekend to get some DX in.

on 10 meters. So use them. Get out there and actually use them. And this weekend is the CQ.

I used to be a magazine. Used to be. A very good magazine. Used to compete with QST.

And did a very handy job at it, especially in later years. The CQ Worldwide Single Sideband

DX Contest. I'm not a contester. I do like a few selected ones here and there, like the PAQ Soap Party

and 13 Colonies and so on. But this one is one you can rack up a number of countries in a very short

amount of time. So if 10 meters is open, you techs can get out there and do this stuff. And so it might

be a good opportunity to get your feet wet in HF if you can possibly do it. I know I'll be operating

here from the VEEQTH again. I'll see if I can break 100 this year for sure. 100 different countries.

So in addition, and Luke, you'd be very interested in this and you'll see a couple emails from me.

Joe hooked me up with a fella and his wife by name of Jim and Felicia Cruiser, N2GHD, from Buffalo.

They live on the island that separates, that is just due west of Buffalo. Yes, there is Canada due west of

Buffalo. It's not only north. He is on Grand Island and he is an expert in Spark era radio receivers.

And I came across a Marconi wireless telegraph company catwhisker receiver that I had saved from the trash bin

right here, right south of me in the borough. A guy from right in the vicinity of Marshall Square Park was getting rid of it.

And I said, you know, I kind of looked at it and tried to keep my eyes in my head looking at this thing. I should probably find a home for this. I got in the

car and I said to Deb, my XYL, I said, do you realize what this is? He was going to throw this out. This is a valuable piece. And so I'm working with Jim to try to get it understood and restored. And Luke, you'll be on the

sidelines with this for sure.

So I'll be sending you and Joe a couple

pictures of that. And let's

see, we got some

very successful winter field

day work behind the scenes

that you'll probably all hear more about

in the future.

So let's see.

Heavens to Betsy. This is one of

the few times I don't remember who comes next.

So Harvey will have to help me out.

I was late getting down here from the kitchen upstairs.

KC3NZT

to help me out.

WA3VEE.

No worries, Ron.

Thank you for that. Next is

KD3EE. KD3 Echo Echo.

Go ahead.

This is Ron and Harvey. This is

Kilo Delta 3 Echo Echo. This is

John in Landisville.

It's a new call sign as of a couple

months ago. So that's why it sounds

familiar, but not quite.

So yes, I enjoyed

the breakfast this past week.

It's been nice to be unemployed

through the summer here,

but I might have to try to go get a job soon.

I'll try to plan around the breakfast.

So I haven't seen 10 meter open a lot for FT8.

I got to the Azores today with four watts.

So that bodes well for the contest coming up.

Hopefully it stays open and no storms or anything.

I'll be headed to the Hamfest in Harrisburg on Saturday.

Hoping to find some interesting gear there and see some good talks.

And I bought a great collection of probes for my multimeters.

I blew the tips off of one of them when I kind of slipped.

And killed a breaker.

Well, tripped a breaker and killed the probes.

But I got to buy new ones.

And they're very nice.

I've got the little tweezer things and the little clamps and all that cool stuff.

Let's see who's next.

Jim is next.

This is KD3EE.

Okay, thank you, John.

And thanks, Harvey, for hosting tonight.

Good to hear you.

And good to hear everybody here.

My ham radio week was just about nothing.

I was down to Ocean City, New Jersey for a number of days.

My ham radio activity was I carried my QRP stuff with me.

And one day I was sort of looking for a spot to set up and use it and didn't find anything.

Plus it was cold and windy and I didn't have the gumption to do it.

So I carried it back home again.

But that's it for me this week.

So I believe it's overdue, Bill.

And yes, Bill, that was a beautiful picture I saw of your Heathkit station.

KC3OOK AF3Z.

KC3OOK.

Thanks, Jim.

And Harvey, thanks for taking the chair tonight.

And, well, for me, the 985 breakfast, which was great.

And the usual nets.

And as Jim referred to, I managed to finish the table and riser for the Heathkit station and get the gear all moved to it.

So it's one table and it's just one row of equipment.

And I was able to find the Heathkit speaker this week.

So I ordered that on eBay.

My first purchase on eBay, I have my fingers crossed.

We'll see how it goes.

But the whole unit lined up is seven feet long.

And, you know, I'm looking at a 7,300 that is less than a foot long that does everything that does.

Kind of interesting.

And, Harvey, I know you have a couple questions.

Depending on how the time goes, I have a question.

But it's not an important one.

We could save it for another day.

And with that, I believe, on the tail gunner.

So I'll turn it back to you, Harvey.

KC3OOK.

Thanks, Bill.

It looks like only one question so far.

So I'll put you on the list for sure.

My week at AM radio was lame and boring.

I didn't do much at all.

But I still had fun.

So I guess that counts for something.

With that, I right now only have one question from Renee and one question from Bill.

Are there any other stations that have questions that maybe forgot to announce it on the first go around?

If so, please call now.

This is KC3NZT.

Harvey, this is Manny AC3NW.

I do have a question.

Okay, excellent.

I got you down there.

I may have your name written down right.

Is it with two T's or two N's?

No problem.

Two N's.

All righty.

Got it.

Sorry about that.

Sometimes the phonics on radio, they get kind of wonky.

Thank goodness for phonetics.

I appreciate that.

So very good.

We will start.

Manny, you were first in the rotation there.

So we're going to start with your question.

And we'll do our best.

And then we've got Renee and we have Bill.

So Manny, over to you.

Now for the question portion of the net, everybody's experience is important.

So even if you don't necessarily consider yourself an expert in a topic, if you have experience in a topic, we encourage you to check in.

That's very helpful for everybody.

So with that, over to you, KC3NW, with your question.

Please go ahead.

Very good.

Thank you, Harvey.

My question has to do with an antenna.

I'm going to be setting up an HF shack here.

And one of the challenges, of course, is antennas.

And I do have enough space in my yard to accommodate an 80-meter dipole, which I think would be ideal.

But what is not ideal is that that would be extremely visible.

And I'm not sure that my neighbors would appreciate that, having a 135 or so foot length of wire emanating from my, say, my chimney or something.

So I did look into verticals for HF.

And I came across the Hustler 5 Bravo Tango Victor antenna.

It claims to be a five-band HF vertical.

And I was just curious if anyone has any experience, either first-hand or second-hand or third-hand.

It does claim to be very good, good SWR across the different bands.

But I was wanting to know if anyone had any direct experience with that and if they could convey what they thought of that particular antenna system.

And back to you, Harvey.

An excellent question.

Excellent question.

I'm going to open that up to the group of vertical, horizontal, trying to be low-profile.

Let's hear what everybody has to offer.

Please call now.

This is KC3NZT.

Ron, go ahead.

Thank you very much.

Manny, great question.

Absolutely.

I have personal experience with that antenna.

And so does Joe.

You want to talk with him.

In fact, if he can't get a hold of him on the radio, shoot him an email.

And listen to his testimonial, for sure.

I used that antenna back in the original VEE station in Wilmington when I was still living at home with my folks.

And I worked, before I got married, I used that antenna probably for about four years or so.

And I worked over 190 countries on it.

And it worked really well.

I had the 75-meter, what's called 75-meter resonator on top.

And I worked all states on 75-meter phone.

I also used it for CW.

And in that time, I think it was cycle 21 or 22 or something like that.

So the bands were really, really good.

I worked everywhere from Russia to China to Australia to South Africa.

It was a great antenna.

One thing I will add also is that I had to have raised verticals.

So it was the top of a flagpole that I had in my parents' backyard.

And I had to have raised verticals.

And it worked superbly.

And I also powered it.

I put some power into it also.

And it handled that very nicely.

Back to you, Harvey.

KC3NZT WA3VE.

Ron, are there any other stations with comments?

Please call now.

One more time, please.

This is KC3NZT.

Delta 3, Echo Echo.

John, there's a little noise on your signal there, I don't know if something changed, but please go ahead.

Either people would use the name of that antenna just for my note, thank you.

Strong Intermod in there, I believe that was the Hustler 5 Bravo Tango Victor, is that correct?

Harvey, that's correct, 5 Bravo Tango Victor.

Yeah, that's the Hustler 5 BTV, those are their multiband trapped vertical antennas, 5 Bravo Tango Victor.

Any other stations with comments for Manny here, please call now.

Manny, you might, I don't know, you said you had room for a long antenna, an 80 meter antenna.

I'm not sure your layout, but I had a, I've used very successfully an NFED antenna.

It, it comes right to the house on one side, so, I have a very short feed line, and it's relatively,

it's relatively, invisible from a distance.

So if you're worried about the neighbors, as I was initially, you may want to also look at that.

And also, if you have a vertical, and I'm not sure, I've never had that particular radio,

but I do have a vertical, and I use a lot of radials, so you may want to check if you have room for radials.

Over.

Points to consider, Rene.

Any other stations with comments, please call now for Manny.

W1RC.

Good.

Manny, if you come to our winter field day, you'll see that very antenna in use.

We've used it now, I think, and Harvey, and the others here, you guys have been up there field day with us.

I think we've used it, this will be our, either third or fourth time we've used that antenna,

with very, very, very good results up at field day.

And of course, we have some straggly radial wires that we put out, and as I just said, it worked very well.

I just saw it all for that as well.

Back to you, Harvey, KC3NZT, and the net, WA3VE.

Thank you, Ron.

I actually don't remember that antenna.

I've been up to the winter field day a couple of times.

I don't remember that one, but I believe you.

A couple of notes that I would make, Manny, for you.

Dealing with neighbors, yeah, I understand that issue.

I live in an HOA, so I have to deal with that as well.

One thing I will say is that the Hustler trap verticals, they have multiple different versions of them.

They are not the slimmest verticals.

So if you're really trying to make it hide, I think that one, I think you might find, is a little bit on the conspicuous side.

But if it's well hidden from the street, sometimes that's all it takes, is just hiding it from the street.

The other thing I'll tell you is, you mentioned you have the room for an 80-meter dipole, and those are excellent.

But if it's fed with coax, it is monobands.

So what that means is you're only going to be able to get on 80, maybe 30 meters.

But if you were to feed it with ladder line, and you use a tuner, you could use that on all bands.

Now that sounds like a lot more capability might be worth looking into,

but ladder line itself also has some other considerations.

It's a little more difficult to get into the home.

It's a little bit more visible, things like that.

I personally chose to go the route that Renee was talking about with an NFED.

Me personally, the backdrop to my house, which I view that as a person walking on the street looking at my house.

What do they see behind my house?

And there's a lot of big, big trees back there.

So I chose an NFED because there is a box that's basically invisible that's up at your house,

and then there's a very thin wire that goes out.

And for me personally, I was able to work out the heights correctly so that the wire dips into the tree line.

And somebody walking by, it's not possible to see it.

It's absolutely not possible.

You'd have to be underneath it looking up.

So that system worked very well for me because it's multiband, it's resonant, and it's very hard to see.

The thing I wanted to bring up is that in my experience, the resonant antennas tend to be a lot better than non-resonant ones that you tune.

So with that being the case, I just want to give you all those options all in one shot because it gives you something to think about.

There's lots of antennas that are not resonant that can be tuned.

But the five-band trapped vertical you're talking about is a resonant antenna.

And so if it's installed correctly, I believe it's going to work very well for you.

Some of the wire antennas that are multiband could also work well for you.

But if I were to have it my way, I would try to nudge you towards resonant and just keep in mind the visibility from the street.

Because at the end of the day, that's not all anyone's going to see.

They're just going to see it from the street.

Anybody that's on your property is not really going to be an issue.

So that's all I have for you.

Are there any other comments for Manny?

Please call now.

This is KC3NZT.

SW1RC.

Go ahead, Mr. Mike.

I've always had a lot of luck with a 130-foot NFED wire antenna and a tuner.

No, it's not resonant, but you have much more frequency agility there.

You can really play around a lot with it.

130-foot NFED, about as hard as you can get it.

Quick and dirty.

But ideally, if you can put up an antenna fed with open wire line and a tuner, that's another good way to go.

Lots of different ways to go.

But have fun.

That's the name of the game here.

This is W1RC.

Back to net.

Thank you, Mr. Mike.

Are there any other comments for Manny?

Please call now.

This is KC3NZT.

Thank you, Harvey.

I want to thank all the input there.

That's excellent.

Ron and Renee and Harvey and Mike, I believe it was.

I might have missed someone there, but all excellent suggestions.

Appreciate that.

As far as the 80-meter dipole, I was thinking about that.

And that interfaced with a one-to-one ballon from DX Engineering and then feed that with coax.

But, again, I'm not sure if that would be too much visibility coming out of my – because one of the ends of the dipole would have to come from the chimney to the front of the house anyway.

So I was concerned about that.

But the NFED solution sounds great as well.

So I think I've got some things to think about.

It does sound like the – let me go ahead and let it drop – the good endorsement there of the 5B TV and perhaps an NFED for 160 meters.

I don't know if anybody's tried that.

So a lot of things to think about.

So that does help tremendously.

Thank you very much, everyone, for your input on that.

Alpha Charlie 3, November Whiskey.

Back to you, Harvey.

Oh, very good.

I actually had your call wrong.

I had it as a kilo, not an alpha.

So thank you for that phonetic at the end.

I don't know exactly where you're located, but – okay, Bel Air, Maryland.

There you are.

Yes.

So one thing I want to throw out before we move on to the next question is just keep in mind,

do some Googling around, do your own research for sure.

But with the resonant half-wave antennas, they are resonant on all of the harmonic bands below it.

So an 80-meter NFED that is resonant will be resonant on all the bands that are higher in frequency from 80 meters.

But there are NFEDs that are non-resonant that do require a tuner.

So a tuner has got another appliance in your shack.

But for the right antenna, it may not be necessary. The tuner in your rig or just no tuner at all could work as well.

So definitely give that a Google up. You'll find some interesting information out there.

So with that, over to Rene with a question. K3FF. Please go ahead for the group. This is KC3NZT.

Thank you, Harvey. Good evening to the group. My question is this, and it may take a bit to explain.

I have an older, you might say vintage amplifier I've acquired. It's a Clipperton L. It runs four 572s.

And it was made in the, I guess the early 70s, maybe late. I got it in the early 80s.

And it has, most amplifiers now will have a tuned front end. This one did not have a tuned front end because most people at the time were running a rig, like a hybrid rig, which had tubes.

And they used the Pi network to match the impedance to the amplifier.

When the solid state rigs, which I had used at the time, came out, the people made the amplifier, the Dentron, made a little input tuning module that you put in line between the transceiver and the amplifier to give it essentially a tuned front end so that you have a 50 ohm impedance from your solid state transceiver to the amplifier.

Let me drop it for a second. Okay, so now, that's called an MC1 and it's probably unavailable. So I'd like to use this, this, repairing this vintage amplifier and I'd like to use it. I was wondering if, and this is my question because I honestly haven't figured this part out yet.

I would say, with the new solid state rigs, with the new solid state rigs, they have automatic tuners like a Kenwood 440 would have. And the question is, can I use the automatic tune feature capability in the solid state transceiver to act as the front end for the amplifier that does not have a tuned input?

To match the impedance of the amplifier. So that's my question. I'm curious about it. I could try it out, but I don't want to make any smoke. And I wonder if anybody's got any input on that. Thank you very much. K3FF.

I present his remarks. I have a 7300, which is a solid state rig. And I have that Clippertron L amplifier. And I presently use it most of the time on 10 meters.

What I have done is I have an MFJ antenna tuner that goes between the radio and the amplifier. And I make a chart. If I'm going to put it on one band, I look up my chart and I can preset my controls and so forth.

But primarily, I use the amplifier on 10 meters. So I'm not messing with the tuner and so forth. And yes, the 7300 does have a built-in tuner. But most of those built-in tuners are limited. But I have no trouble at all with my 7300 into an MFJ.

to the Clippertron L

to a 10 meter vertical antenna.

I used to set up primarily on 10 meters.

So, not hard to do.

It is in the beginning because you're kind of guessing

where you're going to set things and so on and so forth.

But once you find the magic spot,

write it down, make a chart,

and spend some time doing that for the different vans

that you operate and so forth.

But I know exactly what you're talking about

because I have it.

This is WA3KFT.

Perfect. Excellent answer there, John.

Any other comments? Please call now.

This is KC3NZT.

WA3VEE.

Hi, Ron.

KC3NZT in the net.

WA3VEE.

What John said, I have a very similar situation here.

There's another comment, too, I wanted to make in addition,

a cautionary comment.

I'm feeding my Clipperton L.

System here is my IC7610,

feeding, going through a BIRD-43,

going into the Clipperton L,

then to a tuner,

and then to the antenna.

Because I do have

the open wire line here.

Well, it's not open wire.

It's actually a ladder line.

And it's feeding an 80-meter dipole.

And I can select either that or a fan dipole.

So I want to make sure that everything is nice and tuned properly

before I get the amplifier in the picture.

But I have no trouble, like John said,

I also have no trouble driving the Clipperton L,

which I also restored,

recapped and put the Herbach and Rademan

Herbach Electronics recap kit in here

and got this thing really, really up to snuff.

I have no trouble driving the amplifier with the 7610.

One word of caution.

Joe and I came up with a circuit,

kind of independently and simultaneously,

using a PNP transistor

to actually do the relay closure for the TR switch.

So obviously, we all know,

we who fool around with both solid state and tube rigs

and these old amplifiers,

be careful of the keying.

You don't want to blow your expensive solid state rig off,

that's for sure.

So what I do is I just have a loop

that pulls current through a PNP transistor.

that key is the TR relay in the Dentron.

That's the only word of caution,

but you shouldn't,

Rene, you shouldn't have any trouble driving that amplifier

with your solid state rig.

Back to you, Harvey.

KC3NZT WA3VE.

Excellent, Ron.

Thank you so much.

All right, any other comments?

Please call now.

This is KC3NZT.

Thank you again.

Thank you, John.

Ron, I also have an external keying,

so that my 7300 sees a transistor,

and that transistor operates a relay to key my Clippertron.

So that way I keep the two worlds separated,

but I build up an interface circuit,

a transistor driving a small relay to key the amplifier.

I'm trying to think.

It's a DIP relay, dual inline package relay.

It looks like an IC chip,

and I don't remember what the transistor was,

but I just used a transistor to drive that relay,

and the 7300 drives the transistor to drive the relay

to turn the amplifier on.

Yes, you get a lot of wiring when you interface a new radio

with the old stuff.

This is WA3KFT.

All are very persistent, and I love it.

Are there any other comments?

Please call now, KC3NZT.

WA3VE.

We're going to put Rene to sleep here,

or else give him so much that he's never going to join us again.

One more comment.

Yeah, prove it, Ron.

Let's go.

Over to you, WA3VE.

This is KC3NZT.

This is great.

Wonderful to have you here, Rene.

Absolutely wonderful from up in the Pottstown group up there.

Okay, one other thing that what John said again,

absolutely.

Now, with all that latency, he described exactly the system I have here,

as I mentioned.

The other thing you need to look at is delays, your transmit delay.

Sometimes there is latency.

Obviously, there's latency.

Certainly not with the trans.

Well, there is, but nothing to worry about.

I mean, it's nanoseconds with the transistor.

But generally, relays have between a 10 and 50 millisecond latency.

So you want to look and make sure that your relay is keyed before your RF gets produced from your solid-state rig.

And, of course, I know I'm probably stating the obvious, but I wanted to make sure it did get stated, even if it's redundant.

That way, you won't have any arcs and sparks and all that kind of good stuff.

So, anyway, Harvey, back to you.

I know that took us far afield from tuned circuits and tuned inputs, but still, I think you have the full gamut now, Renee, about interfacing these things.

But kind of a fun circuit to come up with, with the keying circuit there.

And I'll be happy to share that if you like.

There's no question about it.

It's Joe's circuit anyway, so I'll be happy to share Joe's circuit.

Back to you, Harvey.

KC3NZT and the group WA3VEE.

Care about copyright law, Renee?

That's excellent.

Are there any other comments before I turn it back over to Renee?

This is KC3NZT.

Okay.

Go ahead, Bill.

Thanks, Harvey.

First, I want to thank Renee for asking the question.

You never know what questions you're going to get here, and this is a great one.

I also have a Clifferton L, so I've learned a lot tonight.

I know that it was being used on a 7610 as well, so I got it from Barry, KC-EUI, so I'll ask him how he was tuning it.

And Ron, thank you for reminding me.

I know you did that modification for the Keen.

I will have to get a parts list from you and maybe ask you for some pointers, because I will have to do that.

I actually got the Dentron Clipperton L out today.

So, that's all I wanted to say.

Thanks, and back to you, Harvey.

KC3NZT, KC3OOK.

Excellent.

Well, at least everybody here apparently is very familiar with Clifferton L.

So, that's wonderful.

Any other comments for Renee?

Please call now.

...to do this, Harvey, but one more comment.

Another slight word of caution.

WA3VEE.

...prese it all.

Please go ahead.

Renee, take a look at the voltage on that TR switch.

John, you also, and Harvey.

I found that when I was doing this project, and I'll be glad to share with you guys my...

...I have a...

...of course, you guys all know me with the camera.

I'm always photojournaling things.

So, I photojournaled the mods that I did on this amplifier, including finding out that that relay was destined for a short life.

It had like 18 volts on it.

It's driven right off the secondary of a...

There's a secondary on the transformer that is meant for that relay and a couple other things, I think.

It might be solitary, I'm not sure, but that runs hot.

Uh, and I'm only running this amplifier.

Believe it or not, I'm still running it on 120.

It should be on 240, of course, but I just haven't gotten around to switching it and plugging it in.

It's just pure laziness.

But anyway, back on point.

Take a look at the voltage.

What I did here was I got a cheap $7 LM317T regulator, and actually, uh...

Uh, uh, jury rigged that into the amplifier.

Uh, that's documented also on my photos.

Uh, that actually is the voltage for that relay.

So, I got it from 17 volts, or 17, almost 18 volts, down to about 13.

So, hopefully, on that mid-text relay, that's the, uh, that's the brand.

On that mid-text relay, hopefully, that will definitely extend the life, because those are pretty much on Obtainium.

Back to you, uh, Harvey.

KC3, I promise that's the last one.

Uh, KC3 NZT, but good work, Ben.

Great, great questions.

W-A-3-V-E-E.

We'll see if we can hold Ron to that last one there.

Any other comments, uh, for Rene, please call now.

Let's call Ron. Are you sure?

Alright, over to Rene. Uh, does that help answer your question, or do you have follow-ups?

Please call now. This is KC3 NZT.

Uh, this is K3FF.

Well, uh, first of all, thank you for everyone, uh, for the, uh, for the comments.

I had no idea that there were that many clippers still around, and to find three-on-one net is pretty, uh, pretty cool.

Um, I appreciate everything, uh, that was told, uh, suggested to me.

I, I think they're all great, uh, things I'm going to take into account.

Uh, uh, the, uh, uh, I have a couple of MFJ little, uh, tuners laying around.

I guess, I, uh, kind of had that, uh, suggested to me, but I, I really wanted to make it, uh, to see if I could do the automatic tuning, uh, for it.

Uh, I wouldn't know what the, uh, what the impedance of those tubes, the input impedance is, but

I didn't realize that it might be out of the range of the, uh, of the tuner, the automatic tuner.

So, uh, thank you for that, uh, uh, John. Uh, and, uh, I'll probably do something along those lines.

and the relay, I agree with you John, a relay is the best way to go. You got absolute nothing but air between that and that's the best way to go.

And I would probably use something like a dip because you don't want the big clanking going on, those little relays.

The one thing I had in mind also was that to, in this case, run the keying, key off the switching relay so that when I did turn it on,

it actually would go back to the push to talk on the transceiver and use the relay on the TR switch to run the, to actually make the switch so that the amplifier would be on before it would key.

But that might be yielding a lily there a little bit. I operate side bands so there's always a little pause in between before RF comes out.

And the rig I used was a, at that time was a, not really seen around much. It's a, let me drop it for a second here.

It was a cubic 102 BXE, which is an early, a late Swan. It was a Swan company they had sold out out of Oceanside, California. It was a very, very great rig at the time and, but a, kind of unusual.

And that had a solid state output for a simple one, no tuner. And that worked with that interface, the MC1 interface very well to the clipper tube. So, I, that's, that's all great ideas.

I like the idea of the, bringing down that voltage. I haven't fired up that relay, so I'm, I'm, I'm hoping it, it, uh, uh, works. And, uh, as you know, anybody who works on rigs these days is that, uh, if you're fixing something, uh, it's, uh, 20% of the work is, is finding out what the problem is. And 80% of the work is trying to find a component to replace what you need. So, thank you everyone. Uh, and, uh, I've, uh, very grateful. So, uh, this is K3FF. Back to you, Hardy.

Thank you, Renee. I expect a five-star Yelp review for the workbench, of course. And then, uh, let's see if we can get Bill's question answered. KC3OOK, over to you.

KC3NZT, KC3OOK. Well, I can keep mine short. And it's just a very, kind of a general question, uh, regarding speakers. And, um, and specifically, uh, adapting new speakers.

speakers to older rigs. And this is just a hypothetical question. It's not something I have a need for. But the E-Kit RX1, the speaker that came with that was an 8-inch, 8-ohm, 8-watt maximum power speaker. And the unit puts out 2 watts at the audio output.

So I'm doing a little looking and realized that it doesn't appear that anything like that is manufactured anymore. And I couldn't find anything close. Although I did find there's a number of old Jensen guitar amplifier speakers that are 25 watts that are out there.

So I guess my question is, if one wanted to adapt a new speaker to one of the old radios, can I just take any lope? Like I've seen some of the 65 watts.

If I was 8-watt maximum, 2-watt in, that's about 25%. So if I took a 25-watt speaker and connected to that, would it work? Or what would be the options? An amplifier between the audio output and the speaker?

And if so, what size amplifier would you want to drive? They say 25-watt speaker. So, and it just doesn't have to go long-harming. So, KC3-NZT, KC3-O-OK.

Good question, Bill. I actually have a ton of thoughts on the matter, but I want to open up to the group first. Any comments for Bill, please call now.

3 VEE.

Ron?

Very good. Generally speakers are very, speakers and outputs are generally pretty tolerant.

You'll be able to drive almost any speaker with the output of your transceiver there, or your receiver pretty much.

Just a matter about how loud it is, which is exactly what I think you're considering.

A couple watts in a small shack should be adequate coming out of the rig, almost regardless of what kind of speaker,

unless it's something really big, and we're not considering that here.

So the only thing is, with the larger speakers, you generally need more current to move the cone to get the lower frequencies,

but that would be the only trade-off that I could see.

But other than that, you should certainly...I think the volume, I would try it without any amplification at all to begin with,

and you may find that the volume might be pretty satisfactory.

I almost don't even worry about it here. It's a quiet shack. We have a drop ceiling in here, and it's carpeted, and it...usually I could turn...

These rigs almost never see more than a third on the volume, and they're feeding all kinds of different impedances,

all kinds of different power capabilities, speakers, and so on. So it should be adequate.

It's one place where a loose tolerance is somewhat acceptable. That's just my experience over many years of this stuff.

KC3NZTWA3VEE back to net control.

Good, Ron. Any other comments for Bill? Please call now.

KC3NZTWA3VEE back to net control.

This is kind of a follow-up question to Ron, I guess.

But my assumption often has been that like a 25-watt speaker doesn't say you need 25 watts to drive it.

That's more the maximum you want to put into it, I believe.

I think maybe that's what you were kind of saying, Ron.

But I'm curious what your comments are.

How much you need to drive and get the volume out is one thing, but the wattage rating, I assume, is a maximum.

AF3 is it?

One quick question or one quick comment.

Ron.

Yeah, Jim. Thanks. Again, you do me a favor.

You're actually succinctly verbalizing what I was trying to. Yes.

That's a maximum rating. In other words, it do not exceed.

Back to you, Harvey. WA3VEE.

Thank you very much, Ron.

Any other comments for Bill, please call now.

KC3O-- I'm giving Bill's call sign.

Call KC3NZT.

Hey, nothing hurt, Bill. I'll give you some comments to get you started here and see where you want to go with this project.

Everything that's been said so far is perfectly fine.

The wattage rating is the maximum. The more concerning component is the amplifier driving it. Amplifiers going into clipping is what destroys speakers typically, if they're not super old.

So you have two watts of output. So what you should be figuring out, which you can do with your other radios probably pretty easily, is you just need to figure out what kind of volume you need.

Some of the things that relate to volume, they cross over to radio, so they'll make sense to you. So whatever a speaker's rated sensitivity is, it's going to be rated in dBs. That's going to be at one watt, usually at one meter. So that's 2.83 volts at one meter. If you want to go 3 dB louder, that's going to require double the wattage. So you can see how this crosses to radio a little bit with dBs and such.

So that's 2.83 volts at one meter. If you want to go 3 dB louder, that's going to require double the wattage. So you can see how this crosses to radio a little bit with dBs and such. In audio world, a perceived doubling of loudness is, depending on the frequency, between 3 and 6 dB.

So you're going to be looking for a speaker to replace in that Heathkit that is a sensitivity that you deem as usable. The dB that the sensitivity is rated at should sound like a reasonable volume to you.

And then if you can go louder, great. If you don't have to go that loud, great as well. But that will give you an idea of how much range you're going to have based on the amplifier's output.

In the 8-inch range, you do have lots of options. There's, in fact, if you want it to sound great, if this is a statement piece, there's tons of full range drivers that are in that size that are absolutely fantastic that are brand new.

One of them in the 8-inch drive that pops to mind is Lysong. That's two I's on Lye. They make fantastic full range drivers. There's an argument to be made in the hi-fi world that they're not the greatest, but in what we do with radio, they're absolutely fantastic.

And they are sensitive, and they are very, very high quality, and they're inexpensive. I think a pair of 8-inch speakers is like 160 is MSRP. You can find them for cheaper if you're looking for just one, which you would be. They'll be even cheaper than that.

So you could have what some people consider world-class speaker driver for something around the $50 range on eBay. A lot of guys use those with 2-watt single-ended triode tube amps. So there's lots of options for you. You should be able to find a drop-in replacement.

I wouldn't worry about the output of the amplifier, but I would tell you that whatever you put in, pay attention to the way it sounds because the speaker will sound like garbage when you're about to drive into clipping, and when it does hit clipping, it can destroy the speaker.

So I don't think you're in a scenario where you need to add an amplifier. I just think you need to focus a little bit on sensitivity when you put the speaker in. I would say anything close to 90 dB would be the benchmark.

90 dB is quite loud, so you wouldn't have to drive that amplifier very hard at all to get what you want out of it. And I think for radio, I believe on sideband, we're operating typically between 200 and 5,000 kHz would be reasonable.

And that's absolutely attainable with off-the-shelf drivers. So I would give that a look. And the more sensitivity, the better. But I'll focus on the impedance matching.

If it's an 8-ohm driver, give it an 8-ohm speaker. And the good speakers will tell you how low they dip. They'll give you an impedance minimum.

So there are some 8-ohm speakers that dip down to 2 ohms. Your amplifier is not going to like that. So find something that's pretty consistently 8-ohms or higher,

and then find a sensitivity as high as you can get that fits in the box you're going to put it in. And you should be alright.

This is KC3NZT. Any other comments for Bill, please call now.

Nothing heard. Back over to you, Bill. This is KC3NZT.

KC3NZT. KC3-0-O-K. Thanks, Harvey. It helps if I pick up the right microphone. And thanks, Ron. And thanks, Jim, as well. It's all real good information. And this is just all theoretical. I have no need for it.

I just realized that I really don't know much about speakers. And I was just reading about the spec on the AK5 speaker. And, yeah, I have no plans to build one. But I just want to learn and read a little about it and see what our options were. And I have to say that this is not a good subject to ask Google AI because each time I ask the same question, I get a different answer. So I appreciate it.

options were. And I have to say that this is not a good subject to ask Google AI because each time I ask the same question I get a different answer. So I appreciate it. I did purchase online an 8K5 speaker cabinet with a speaker so I really don't need one. Right now it just got me thinking about it and what else you would do for other old rigs. So it's all good information and I appreciate it.

And I know that if I were building one you'd probably find those speakers still up at the, Ron would know, up at the Kutztown Antique Radio Meet or of course Midnight Electronic Supply. You can break in the Joe Shed. So appreciate it Harvey and thanks everyone. Back to that KC30OK.

Thank you for your endeavor. And thank you for everybody on the workbench that checked in and that asked questions. That's what fuels this workbench. Are there any other stations that maybe came up with a question while we had our discussions or any other late check-ins that would like to make it on the list? If so please call now. This is KC3 NZT.

Kilo Delta 3 Echo Mic Sierra, we got you on the list. Did you happen to have any questions for the group or are you just checking in?

Kilo Delta 3 Echo Mic: Yeah, this is Chris. I have a quick question. So we have our church is going to just the FRS, the public -- what's the brand name of those things? I think they're called Ritivists? Or Ritivists? Anyway, my question was, has anybody worked with a comfortable earpiece? I know some radios come with them.

with them. But even if it's a little, I won't say pricey, but you know, something a little

more than a $10 one, preferably the ones that go in the air with a little coil on it, a

little place to coil. Something that will be used probably for about five to six hours.

So I just know if anybody uses any for work or anything or wouldn't know if just a particular,

particular brand of ones that might be a little more comfortable for extended uses, KD3EMS.

Okay, comfortable ear pieces. That's a good one. We use those for our field days. Is it in-ear or over-the-ear and does it need a mic?

These ones are actually in-ear. We've tried the over-the-ear ones. They just don't seem quite as comfortable. So we went with the in-ear ones, almost like you would use like a, like ear protection, almost to go in the ear. So I just know if anybody just knew of any particular brand. Or I know obviously with headphones, you know, you have different types of, you know, better brands and others. So just

I don't know if anybody had any experience with like long-term where you might be wearing them, you know, maybe, you know, five, four or five hours at a time.

Microphone required there? Chris?

I'm sorry, go again with your last.

Do you require a microphone with this earpiece or is it for listening only?

This would be like the lapel style mic. So like it would tuck in your shirt. It would have a little push button behind, you know, behind your button on your shirt there.

In-ear monitors with a microphone. Does anybody have recommendations for Chris? I will give you mine real quick. I personally use the Sal Notes Zero. I find them fantastically comfortable and their measurements are off the chart. It's as close to flat as you can get without spending multiple thousands.

So I really like them and they do come with a mic. I don't know if that's the style you're looking for but you're welcome to Google them up. That's Sierra Alpha Lima and then Notes and then Zero spelled out, not the number. Those are the ones that I personally use. Any other recommendations for Chris please call now. This is KC3NZT.

Okay. Crickets.

Sorry there Chris. I guess that's all you're going to get tonight I suppose. But good luck in your search. Again those are the ones that I use. I like them. They're standard wired ones with a mic attached to it. I don't know if that helps but back over to you. This is KC3NZT.

Yeah I'm actually looking at them right now. Just real quick. Is that the standard Kenwood 2-pin plug?

No, it is not a standard Kenwood 2 plug. You would have to get an adapter for that if it's for an HT. Those are going to be a standard either TRS or TRRS, but they do make adapters that will go to a Kenwood, which is also the same adapter that Baofeng uses.

So either one of those keywords will probably give you different results, but they are in effect the same thing. Baofeng and Kenwood, they cross. Specifically the UV-5R from Baofeng crosses with the Kenwood.

Very good. That's exactly what's on the fourth row. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. It's our pleasure as always. Any other late check-ins for the net, please call now. This is KC3NZT.

Nothing heard. Well, thank you everybody for checking in. And again, I want to remind everyone that on Thursday at 8 p.m. we also have the round table, which is more of a, it's not a technical net. It's more of a rag-chew type session. I encourage everybody to check in on that. It's a lot of fun.

With that, I am going to close down the workbench and return the repeater to normal amateur use. Ron, if you would, if you could hang around for a second. I had a question for you.

With that, good night everybody. N73, thank you again. This is KC3NZT.

Good workbench Harvey.

That was a lot of fun, Ron. I enjoyed that a lot. But I had a question for you, a little bit technical in nature.

Hey, I'm getting a whole bunch of extended squelch tail on the repeater tonight. I haven't heard it before. I'm wondering if it's just me. But I suppose I could record it. But I actually had to turn the squelch up here on the icon. It's a mono band rig. But man, the squelch was carrying on for a good two seconds after I keyed down. Is this just me? Do I have an equipment malfunction? Or has something changed? Back to you. This is KC3NZT.

Tell you what, let me check. I'm going to do some testing here. So this WA3VE, I'm going to play around with my squelch. Because I usually on my 9700, I usually have it pretty tight. And it just goes, and that's it. Just a, that's it. So let me try here and loosen this up a bit and see if I'm hearing an extended squelch tail.

This is WA3VE. I'll be doing testing here for about 10, 15 seconds or so. Please stand by.

WA3VE. I'm hearing normal squelch tails. Now, of course, do you remember if it was during the intermod or like now there's no intermod? Are you still getting that phenomenon?

Yeah, I most certainly am. And I was doing it when you unkeyed. I actually got a recording of you unkeying. I can't seem to figure out how to send this to you. I'm going to, oh, here it is, share. I'm going to text this if that's okay with you over to you. But yeah, man, it's just hanging. It's hanging the squelch open for a long time with what sounds to me like a squelch tail. I'm no expert.

But it was long enough that a couple of times I was wondering if that's why I wasn't hearing people's prefixes. It's because it's just hanging it open for so long. So normally I run my, it's just a knob. It's a normal knob on a radio. But normally I run it at about, probably about like 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. I had this thing all the way up to like 3 o'clock to try to get this to go away. And I didn't, I know that the tower project was recently finished.

I just didn't know if anything had changed with that. You know, I'm not, I'm not up on the 985 news per se. So I was just, I just figured I'd check in and see if it's just me. It absolutely could just be me. But I just texted it over to you and I, you know, I'm not quite sure what I'm hearing here.

I just happened to be listening. I actually was listening on broadcastify because I wanted to make sure it was good. And Harvey, this squelch tail is normal. I'm listening to the repeater and it, you know, it drops and everything is fine. Some suggestions for you. You may have some local noise there.

If you're not using tone squelch on receive and I'm not sure your rig will do 94.8 as a receive decode while it's encoding 100 hertz. I always use the split, split tone.

not sure your rig will do 94.8 as a received decode while it's encoding 100 Hz. I always use the split tone.

And the reason for doing that is if you just have some noise in general, which is keeping your squelch open,

the tone squelch would obviously alleviate that, but I'm guessing you don't have a rig that will do the split PL.

So that's that. Other than that, I would say, you know, because the repeater is dropping very quickly towards the latter part that I was listing.

There's no intermod. And the project, we'll have to talk sometime. Maybe if you're able to make a breakfast or something,

I can give you a dissertation on the modifications, but they'll be transparent.

You will not be able to tell the difference when the site is broken and it receives up on the hill and transmits here.

There's zero change on the user end. So I'm just trying to think what else. I, you know, the only thing I can say,

you have some residual noise that's keeping your squelch open. I mean, as strong as a repeater is there,

you should be able to turn your squelch all the way up. But everything on the repeater side is perfectly normal.

Now, I, I, it's interesting while I'm talking about this, some guys will say, oh, we got a little intermod on tonight, but we really don't.

Keep in mind, keep in mind, before the, before the carrier drops, the PL decode from the encode coming in.

Let me start over again. The encode coming in is decoded and allowing that particular signal to open the repeater.

When the signal goes away, the, the, the, the enable on the PL is still there. And it's there. If you have a choppy mobile signal,

you don't want the encode or the decoder on the repeater side to, to say, oh, got to decode it. Oh, signal's gone. Got to re-decode it again.

Because there's a, there's a propagation time delay on the decode. So the way, comspec, which happens to be the decoder that I'm using on, off the, off the, off my receiver up at the site,

it has about a hundred millisecond still enabled after the desired signal goes away on the input. And that's just to keep things from chopping, chewing mobile signal.

Now in practicality, how this results on the air is if there's a band opening or there's some local welding going up near the repeater,

or if there's some other very, very weak signal on 385, you know, you're going to hear it for like a tenth of a second.

That's not Intermod. That's just, that's just stuff on the, on the input frequency, not Intermod. Intermod manifests itself.

And I know you know how Intermod is generated, so I won't go through that dog and pony show. But Intermod, you will hear a, it almost sounds like a modulated signal with a warbly tone on it.

It's, it's not like a perfect tone. I can't simulate it. But it's, it's on the, it would be on the squelch tail. And it's also heard on signals that aren't super strong into the input.

Sometimes our users actually right over the Intermod. But the Intermod, you can tell if it's Intermod if you hear the warbly tone, either on a weaker signal while they're transmitting or during that, that little bit of hang time from the PL tone decoder.

And you can actually hear it. But other times, if the squelch tail drags out, the most it'll drag out is a tenth of a second. And that's just noise. But not Intermod. So that's a lot of info.

And I'm going to turn it over to Ron, but that's the scoop. But everything is fine tonight. I would suggest turning up your squelch control. If that doesn't do it, then you can look for another issue. WA3VEE and the group W3GMS.

WA3VEE and the group WA3VEE. Outstanding, Joe. Thank you so much. Well, of course, I could not comment at all on what Joe mentioned with regard to how the squelch circuit actually works. Obviously, the person who knows that inside and out is, of course, Joe.

But my thought was what he did mention also was that there might be a little bit of an opening or something. And I've seen that on my YASU in the vehicle, on my old FTM 100 in the van, where if there happens to be either the New Jersey repeater or the one down in Calvert County, I think it is near the Potomac, K3-CAL, I think is the call sign of the other 985 machine.

That will, if it's strong enough, that will actually keep the squelch tail open as well. So it will be interesting to see what happens. Now, in the morning, usually the band openings are the worst. But I don't know if it's going to be warming up out there.

That might be indicative of an impending band opening also. So that might also be what's happening. So let me turn it over to you, Harvey.

Is that a YASU or an ICOM that you're using here? If it's a YASU, that's probably, that might be one thing I would consider, is that if there's any way you can attenuate the signal to where you're receiving the repeater, us, very well,

and, you know, you don't have a big antenna on there, that might attenuate the foreign signals. Then you can also still see if your squelch tail is longer. For any of this that I'm saying actually makes sense.

KC3NZT in a group, WA3VE.

So I'm going to try to be as specific as I can because there's certainly a chance that I'm using wrong terminology. Now as far as the Intermod goes, the Intermod on both of my rigs, right now I'm in the garage. This is an ICOM 2300H. It's a mono band 65 watt rig. It's just a cheap bulletproof tank. It's just for two meters, that kind of thing.

But this and on the 9700H, which does do split tones. It will do split tones and I have it set up that way. But like I said, I'm not in the house because the babies are sleeping. I'm in the garage. But when I get Intermod, I literally over the top of someone's voice, I'll get a wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. It's very clear to me when Intermod's in there, I can hear it clear as day as far as I know.

I may be using the wrong term on the squelch tail. I sent Ron two audio clips. One of them was just it doing it. The second one was just normal talking on the repeater. Now what I'm hearing though is it sounds like if you're on HF listening to sideband and you turn the squelch up high enough, it's just going to be dead silent. Dead silent.

But if you go down to no squelch and you're on a vacant frequency, the noise you hear on HF, I'm hearing that for up to two seconds after a transmission. I assumed that was squelch tail. I may be using the wrong word. That may not be squelch tail. It may be local noise. It could be something else. But that's what I'm hearing.

And then on top of that, on top of people's voices that are typically strong signals that I hear, I just hear a faint hiss on top of it. And that was the second clip I sent you, Ron. I actually sent you a clip of me listening to you on the repeater.

And on the repeater, you just had a faint hiss on top. When I switched to direct, it was crystal clear. And so I may be using the wrong terminology. So please excuse that. But that's what I was hearing. But it was just, it was way longer than I've ever heard before.

So a couple of call signs. You know, I know the call signs. So I know who's calling. But I totally missed the prefix because when someone unkeyed and someone else keyed up, there was just, there was about one to two seconds of just loud hiss like you're on HF and there's nobody there.

So that's what I was experiencing. But I could be describing it in a poor manner. So that's all. I was just trying to check. You know, if I hear something weird, I want to make sure it's not me first because it most likely is me first.

So that's what was going on. I have not tried the 7700 inside. That may very well not have this issue at all. It has a better antenna, better coax, and fewer connections. And so this is definitely just the garage rig.

AC3NZT.

Yeah, because I'm on a sign.

Harvey, yeah, Ron is full quieting.

There's absolutely zero, zero noise on his signal.

So you either have some local noise where if you hear a hiss or somebody's signal,

and that's kind of hard to believe, but I'm four miles airline from my repeater,

and he has no noise on his signal, nor do you.

You're both very deep into full quieting, no hiss, no nothing.

So anyway, that's the deal.

Well, I can't address your receive problem, but I can address the repeater.

So I've given you the repeater, and I try to explain how it works, and it's working just fine,

and how to differentiate between intermod and a slight squelch burst at the end,

which will never, ever, ever be greater than 100 milliseconds, because that's when the PL will time out.

But occasionally you'll hear, like, drag a little bit, but no more than a tenth of a second.

A lot of times people hear that, and they think it's intermod.

No, it's just a weak signal on the input from somewhere, just generating a little bit of noise.

The receiver sensitivity is about .15 microvolts for 12 dB quieting.

And, you know, you put an antenna up 110 feet in the air, and, you know, it hears a lot.

It hears a lot.

You can't vary the RF gain control on most 2-meter rigs.

Some you can, but especially some of the more simplistic rigs you can't.

So my suggestion is, the first thing I would try is just turn up your squelch.

What you're describing to me is just band noise.

It's the same as I would hear if I had the receiver, the 2-meter receiver, turned off the PL decode and just turned the squelch down on the audio.

You just hear the, and that's just the noise of the receiver.

So, and the way you get around from hearing that is you turn the squelch higher.

And if you can't copy 985 with the squelch fully turned, fully clockwise, then I would say that's a problem.

Because the squelch sensitivity, typically, even full up, will be about 3 microvolts on the receiver.

And I guarantee you, we have a higher footprint in your area than that.

So, anyway, that's that on that.

I hope I've explained things reasonably well.

And that's about all I have to say on it.

7-3 guys, take care.

WA3VEE.

And the group.

But no more group, because W3GMS has gone that away.

Very good, Joe.

By the way, I have the computers in hand.

They are safely upstairs.

So, more on that in an email.

I was in the process writing that earlier before the workbench.

So, that whole transaction is now complete.

And I think we've formed another good vendor relationship there, for sure.

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