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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Hey everybody. Welcome the Red Ledger. Today we have Lisa Frazier and Rebecca Holbrook joining us. Today we are gonna be talking about a controversial topic. It is the word of knowledge. It is a gift from God, as some people believe, and some people believe that it is not a gift from God. It is a tool for manipulation and abuse.
Mm-hmm. So we are gonna discuss our thoughts and feelings on that and in alignment with the scripture. So, um, Rebecca, can you share your testimony of how you came to understand the word of knowledge? Yes. You started off saying that it's controversial and it shouldn't be because it is in the word of God.
You know, first Corinthians chapter 12 and 13, they talk about the gifts and it talks about the gifts throughout the whole New Testament. Um, but yes, it is something that you have to. Uh, learn about, you know, 'cause faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God and all. When I was raised in church and, and none of that was ever discussed, ever.
Mm-hmm. There was never any talk of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, of the gifts of the Spirit. The only thing that was ever really discussed was the fruit of the spirit, which is a super important topic, but it's a completely different topic than, I guess I think part of my misunderstanding before understanding this was, um, people use the, the phrase word of knowledge, which really isn't in the Bible, it says utterance.
Right. Utterance of God. But that's what they're referring to, correct? Yes. So, uh, it is in, in some translations. Translations. Mm-hmm. I believe in the new King James. Let's look that up. There's nine gifts. Um, word of knowledge is something from the past or the present, and then a word of wisdom would be something for the future.
Okay. Yeah. So, um, how I came about this was I had gone to my first year of bible college and I didn't know anything about it, but I happened to be, to find myself in the mission field in Uganda. It was my first mission trip. And, um, we were at this small little village church and there was tons and tons of people.
There are so many people in fact, that we had to move the service outside. But when we were inside, I started to get this sharp pain in my ear, like somebody was stabbing me in the ear. And, um, previous to that, I had learned how I could lay hands on myself and belie and believe for healing. And so I did, I laid my hands on my ear and I said, I command this pain to go away in Jesus name.
And it did leave. But in the meantime. We then kind of broke and took all of the chairs outside because it was just way too hot. It's just a little tiny building. There's a ton of people, you know, they might have had a few fans going, I don't remember. But we moved outside and the sharp pain came back and it just must have been the grace of God, the Holy Spirit on the inside of me, because I finally said, is there somebody around me that has an ear ache?
And I don't even honestly know why I said that. It just totally was the Holy Spirit teaching me and the head pastor there, um, pastor Joseph, he, he said, oh, she's getting a sign and gets the microphone, like thrust this microphone in my hand. And I'm like, is anybody here having a really bad earache? And I'm kidding you.
Just like, huge line of people. And, um, this one man, he testified and he said my ear pain was so bad that I used to, you know, shove sticks Oh, in my ear. Because, you know, if you've ever had an earache before, you put your pre pressure on, it seems to relieve the pain some, but these people are probably like four days away from, um, a doctor walking.
And that's if you have the money to be able to, you know, go and see a doctor in the first place. So they're not, they don't really have access to healthcare freely. We're so blessed in the United States mm-hmm. To have access to the healthcare. However you feel about that, the healthcare that we do, you can go and see somebody.
Um, but anyway, so I have this huge line of, of people, so many healings and stuff like that took place. Um, but I learned a very valuable lesson that day. I was praying for this woman, um, had an infant in her hands and I laid my hands on her. I closed, I closed my eyes, I laid hands. I commanded the healing power of Jesus Christ to go in her, to heal her ear ache.
And while I am praying, I smell the smell of death like something had died. And the, in the meantime, so I opened my eyes and the little girl had turned her head and her whole ear and everything was just like decaying and, and rotting. And there was flies all over, flying in and out and stuff like that.
And, and I got in my flesh like that and I thought. Oh my goodness. Not at the time, but, but afterwards, but at the time I was just like, oh my goodness. I really hope that the anointing of God went inside her before I got in, in my flesh. That is my prayer for sure. Yeah. Um, because it was exactly what I believe the disciples experienced when they couldn't cast a demon out of that boy that kept on rolling around.
I think that that is what happened was that he was foaming at the mouth and stuff like that, and, and they got in their flesh. They, um, the demon was manifesting in on the inside of the boy, and speaking of demons, that's their last mode. That's when you see a demon manifesting is like their last, what they're trying to do is get you in your flesh mm-hmm.
So that you can't, um. Deliver the person or whatever. So that was two major lessons that I learned that day, was that I operate in the gifts of, of word of knowledge and, um, a keep your eyes open. And b well, along the lines of that story when Jesus said, you know, um, these kind only come out with prayer and fasting.
Mm-hmm. The fasting and the prayer is, prayer is a sacrifice of your time, and it's a commitment, you know, to, um, to spending time with the Lord. But b, fasting puts your spirit in dominance. And that mm-hmm. I believe is what Jesus was saying, like, you have to be in spirit controlled, and fasting is the, the really, the only way to be completely a spirit dominated.
That's why it should be a part of our lives. Something you said stood out to me that, um, of, of course the, the miracle and we'll get to that too, but. That we are blessed to have this healthcare system here, but I wonder if we are, because my guess facts is that they believe that there, it's easier for them to believe and have faith for something because they don't have a fallback.
They don't have, well, I can just go to the doctor and get some meds. That's absolutely correct. There is no plan B there. No. It's either God is true and or I'm gonna die. Mm-hmm. In a lot of instances. And that is absolutely why we see a lot of, of miracles and healings and, um, the supernatural, uh, operate there more.
'cause there's no plan B. Absolutely. When referring to the, the little girl that was, that had the rotting, did you lay hands on her? Mm-hmm. Or did you stop at that point? When, when you kind, when you said you got into your flesh, were you able to continue to move forward or did you hesitate. I move forward.
You did? I did. Yeah. But it was shocking. Mm-hmm. I'm sure it was because the side of the face that, that I, the side of the head that I saw initially was perfectly normal. And then she had turned her head, like I said, and yeah, it was, it was shocking. Were you able to see her healing or do you know what happened with her?
I don't, but I fully believe that she was healed. I mean, I mean, you know mm-hmm. Yeah. Because it, those are hard things to see, you know, especially children. I mean, you want everyone to be healed, but mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, the word does give us provision for our beliefs, but then we have proof on top of it having lived through it.
Mm-hmm. So I'm sure both of you, I think we've all seen people healed. Oh, right. Yes. We've seen hands laid on people. We've seen people healed. Yes. And, um, which is a gift. Yes. A gift of healing. Mm-hmm. Yes. And so this word of knowledge, um, so sometimes I like just see a word over people and I didn't know that was.
I mean, I knew it was from God, but I didn't know there was scripture for it before I went to Bible college. I just thought it was something that everybody had. Yeah. Or that's just how God talked to people, that you can see this word over them, but it, it gets to be where I'm like, I feel so compelled I have to say it, and then I can't.
I can't relax until I say it. Yeah. How does that happen for you? How does that process. I mean, it doesn't happen all the time, but you know. Yeah. It's only as the Holy Spirit reveals. Mm-hmm. It's not like this is an operation at all points in time. Um, the gifts are, uh, it's for a purpose. And that is one thing that I really like about the gifts, is that you can be assured that if the Holy Spirit is, um, showing you that about somebody, they're getting healed.
Mm-hmm. Or that word is correct, and, uh, and so the more that you walk in that, the more confident mm-hmm. You become. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. How does, how, um, it, does it manifest in you when you see it differently? Or is it always the same? Is it kind of a body? 'cause you're saying you felt something in your body, or it just kind of comes out of your mouth?
Um, both. Yeah. Definitely. If I'm praying for somebody, um, it, it comes from my spirit and mm-hmm. Up, up through my mind, however that works. Mm-hmm. But yeah, uh, uh, most of the time starting off, it will, it will be in to manifest itself in my body as pain somewhere. Okay. Yeah. So it starts for you as a pain to come out for a healing.
It's not necessarily for direction. Correct. Can it be both? So I'll get, I'll get pain somewhere, and then I start asking the Holy Spirit questions like, who is this for? Yeah. Yeah. So I see a purpose in these words for me, when I get 'em there, I, I can highlight the whole purpose. What do you think the purpose is?
When you have a word for somebody to point to Jesus mm-hmm. That Jesus is real. Yeah. Absolutely. Glorify God. Uh, our pastor says yes to glorify God. Our pastor says that healing is the dinner bell for salvation. Yeah. You know, and I have seen that so many times. You get somebody healed, especially as something that they've had for a long period of time, and it's just like, oh, whoa.
Jesus is real. Yeah. Yeah. Because I can't heal anyone. No. You know what I mean? Right. Like, it's God in me, God through me. Um, that makes these gifts come. To, to pass. I think so too. I find it interesting too, like when I've prayed over people, it seems like the new believers get crazy fun stuff. Yeah. Like, you know, because of what he said to the dinner belt.
I love that. I don't know if I've heard him say that we all went to the same Bible college. Yeah. So, um, so we've learned some similar things, but at different times. At different times. And you know, that's something that is, uh, challenging because like I started off saying, the gifts of the spirit aren't taught on, and I don't even know how to, I don't even know when this all would've taken place if I wouldn't have been obedient to go to the mission field in Uganda because I was given a platform.
Um, it was definitely a divine appointment because after that, I mean, the. The door broke, and then I just had the confidence that, oh my goodness, I hear God's voice, right? And he wants to use me in this way. And, and it's so humbling and empowering. I mean, especially if you're somebody like me that's, um, that has been raised in church, but in a church that didn't believe in, um, these parts of the Bible.
Mm-hmm. Which I really don't understand because on this side of operating in the gifts and then being filled with the Holy Spirit, I don't understand how you can just jump around and justify that it isn't for now. Because even, even in the, the later part of, um, I think it's in like second Timothy or first Timothy, when Paul says, don't forget the laying on of hands that, you know, your mom had this gift and your grandma had this gift.
And don't forget what happened when we laid hands on you and they talk about prophecy. And, you know, all of those things are gifts to the spirit. I, I was wondering if either of you knew why the cessationists don't believe in the gifts? Because they don't believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate baptism.
Oh. And that's where it all begins. Mm-hmm. You know, what is that? Acts chapter eight, where, where it's so explicit where he says, oh, you have been saved. You've believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you've been baptized in water. Well, now let me baptize you in the Holy Spirit. And he lays hands on them and they get baptized and they start speaking in tongues.
That's the door. That's the door. You have to have that. And if you just totally set that aside, that's, that's the door that you have to walk through. You have to believe in that. But when one thing also is, um, for instance, John the Baptist, one of the, um, denominations, which is the one that I was raised in Southern Baptist, well, he baptizes in water, which, you know, okay, fine.
Uh, I, that I can see is totally something that needs to be done. But then he says, but then one is coming greater than me. Mm-hmm. That will baptize you in fire. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that's just completely skipped over. And so much as like, you get baptized in water and they say, I baptize you and the father and the son and the Holy Ghost.
But, and some people do get it at the same time, but I think it's pretty rare. Mm-hmm. I, I did not. Yeah. I did not either. Mine are separate. Mine was separate. I think it's kind of what you believe for, right. Yeah. Hundred. If you're not asking and believing for that, how would you even know? Right. And I, I was never, I never learned that either.
I don't know how, after reading the Bible, I did not see it. And I'm saying those aren't saved. Right, right. I'm not saying that they're not saved, but I am. But they're missing the boat on the power. Oh, the power. The power. The power is everything. The power is everything. And on this side of it, like I said, I just can't even imagine not having the gift of tongues.
I can't imagine it. Yeah. It is so special to me and such an empowering thing. And I get, I get so many answers, I just can't even imagine. Well, that's what, when I was, um, off into my new age, that's what I was seeking was the power. But I didn't understand, you know, I was going to psychics. I was going to, you know, different things to try to fulfill.
'cause I knew God was powerful. I knew he was powerful, and so I wanted to see that power. Um, I, I wanted to experience that, not just like, take a prayer, throw it up in the air, and hopefully it gets answered. I wanted to experience God's power. God's miracles, God's. Mm-hmm. I wanted to see what, what, what is it?
I mean, if you're so big and mighty, what is it? And I think what I didn't understand about prayer is that we need to pray in his will and according to his word, his word. Mm-hmm. And that has power and out loud, but, but throwing spaghetti at a wall to pray for crazy things or manipulate people is witchcraft.
Yeah. Right. Like we talked about before. Yeah. But, um, I think the enemy really doesn't want us to understand. The power that is in this book? Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. That, that is the absolute truth. In fact, like in the second Timothy three, five, it says, um, they'll have a form of godliness but denying its power.
Mm. And that is, that's church explains it. And why that is so important is because that is the enemy, that is the enemy's, uh, design. So that people don't know the power that they walk in. Yeah. And it's all the time quoted. Oh, you have, um, Jesus, the son of the living God living on the inside of you. You have raising from the dead power, living on the inside of you.
Yeah. Well, that should be showing up in your life. What do you think about churches who are not teaching this on purpose or teaching the other, lack, lack, turn away understanding from those churches. Lack understanding. Is that what we take from that verse? That's what you should turn away from that church.
I would never go to a, a church that doesn't operate in signs, miracles, and wonders. Yes. Because Jesus said. Um, a signs, miracles and wonders will follow those who believe, but also that the word is supposed to be, um, confirmed with power, right? Mm-hmm. Is supposed to be confirmed with signs, miracles, and wonders.
And this, um, I'm gonna do a plug here. Yeah. Um, those are gorgeous, aren't they? Great? Yes. Look at this one. I want one bread ledger gifts. Thank you. This one, this is the, uh, Florence. Florence. I was like the Italian one. One. How pretty. Yes. Um, this one can, this is the one you can't have, can't have this one, but in this one here, it says, um, in two Timothy three, five, it says they will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly.
Stay away from people like that. Hallelujah. I think here's the problem. When we don't read all of the word and all of the Bible, yeah. We get the bits and pieces and it does seem wrong in our world. Right. Right. In my mind, it seemed a little crazy the first time I went and laid hands with a friend of mine and this person was healed.
I'm like, well, then I thought, okay, I just didn't know this is God. I didn't know how it worked and we just ran. Yeah. You know the interesting part about that though, and I agree with you, it does seem foreign, but people are so willing to put a crystal around their neck. Yeah. That is so funny. Burn some sage.
I just saw this girl on my social media, um, and she's, she's a Christian and she was talking about how much support she had when she was basically doing witchcraft. Yeah. And calling on spirits and doing that. But the minute she talked about Jesus, people have just revolted against her. Yeah, they sure do.
Online, he's the family everywhere. He's the rock of offense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and there is power there. You don't hear anybody using Buddha as a cuss word. No, no, no. You sure don't. No. You know, you're not, you know, there's a spirit behind that. Yeah. And there's a spirit behind people trying to, um, walk in the gifts.
I mean, I was just leading my group the other night and we got somebody filled with the Holy Spirit, and, and I told them, because I've done that hundreds of times, get people filled with the Holy Spirit, it's called baptism of the Holy Spirit and with sign of speaking in tongues. So I said, the first thing that is going to happen to you is the enemy is going to make you feel like you're just talking rubbish.
Gibberish. Yes. Gibberish. Mm-hmm. That, and, and the whole point of that is because it's power. Yes. You are literally sending angels on assignment. And, and so how I went about saying is God is so merciful and generous with us that he. Uh, sent Jesus as a man because he gave the planet for us to, to have dominion over.
Right. And when it comes to speaking in tongues, he has to use our mouth. Right. But he gave us this language that we can speak in to pray the perfect prayers that circumvent our mind. Because it says in one Corinthians chapter 12, you won't be able to understand everything that you're saying. You can ask for an interpretation, but how generous is that of him, that he wants to touch the earth so badly, but he doesn't wanna have to tell us, you know, the circumference of, you know, this, the planets or whatever it is.
Mm-hmm. That maybe that we're gonna have to know Yeah. For that prayer to be Yeah. You know, because everybody is moved by their mind. Yeah. Yes. And that is why it is so important to be able to. Set your mind aside because God is so, um, he's so big that you, if you had to understand everything, yeah. You would never get anything done.
And so and so our intellect is what holds us back so much from operating in the gifts of the spirit. Because you think that you have to understand, you are not gonna understand God. No. And, and it, it clearly states that, I mean, there's multiple times where stated in, in scripture that we're not going to have a full understanding.
So when you walk it out as though you are supposed to have a full understanding of, of something. You're, you're wrong there. You're wrong. God's ways. God's will, God's God's wisdom is not ours. It's above. It's above us. Yeah. It's above us. And he goes so far as to say that our wisdom is foolishness. Yeah. He does.
So I love how the word of knowledge glorifies him, but it also brings new believers to Christ, right? Mm-hmm. Because sometimes I've noticed when I've had this, it, it's about somebody I don't even really know. Mm-hmm. And it's speaking a word into their life Yeah. That I couldn't possibly have known. Mm-hmm.
And it's edifying and encouraging them. And I think this is where it goes wrong sometimes is sometimes it's used as a kind of prophecy or manipulation. Yes. And I think that's where we have to be careful. I think I, the, the way I'm careful with that is if I know it's from God, I don't make any disclaimers, but I don't say, Hey, this is from God.
Um. But I always say, Hey, this might be a word for you. Mm-hmm. You know, that I've been praying about you. Um, have you guys seen it used as manipulation? I have seen the gifts. Not necessarily maybe a word of knowledge, because word of knowledge usually has to, I mean, I, I guess you could throw out like if anyone has Oh, do you know how I think period cramps or something?
What, I mean, I, I think it, it should encourage an edify. Yeah. I think when we're giving a prophetic word about somebody to put them in fear or something that's against God's will. Right. I think that's how we can detect it. Right? Yeah. Always. It's always there to edify and, and to either bring you to him or heal you.
It's, it's never there to or get you on the right path. Yes. It's never there for condemnation. Mm-hmm. To scare you. I mean, I guess. Scaring you maybe into going in the wrong direction, like in a good way. Mm-hmm. Like if you continue down this path, you know? Yeah. Um, it's, that's not wise. It's not wisdom. So those are the kind of words of knowledge I get for people.
It's more like a path. Yeah. And it sounds like yours are a lot in healing. Yeah. So I was gonna say, your, your gift might be prophecy. Oh yeah. And maybe I don't even know. Yeah. So, so there, there aren't nine different gifts. Well, I already have it. Yeah. And, and yes, prophecy should be encouraging and edifying.
Okay. Um, there's another side to that is if, if you sit in the seat of a prophet, which is, which is a totally different scenario, but every Christian should be able to pro, I'm not that. And you do prophesy if you're using the word of God. Because the word of God is, is Jesus. Yes. 'cause it is like, I'm, I'm getting a word on.
It's always on their path on like. You know, this girl, when I met her, I, I, I was actually having lunch with her mom, and she came up and I go, oh, you're supposed to be singing. Like, I knew she had to sing. Mm-hmm. And she was kind of going on this career path of deciding where she was gonna go next, and I had no idea.
Mm-hmm. I mean, I just had met her mom. Yeah. So, um, prophecy, word of wisdom, that's more prophecy. Oh, it could have been word of wisdom. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. See, I think I get confused between all of those. Yeah. And they can go, like, there's, there's a lot of times that if you're doing like a tongue and interpretation, that it'll, it'll turn into prophecy.
Oh, okay. Yeah. But you, if you train your spirit, you can discern that. So what is the difference between a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge? So word of knowledge is present or past, and word of wisdom is future. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. It feels like I should have known that from Bible college. What? Well, I just did.
There's, there's a lot going to Bible college is like a hose, fire hose to the face. Like it's a couple fire hoses. Really? You're like, yeah. He get it. I just know there's a lot of gifts. Yeah. And the reason for them is to church, it's for bring people closer to God. Yeah. And it's, they're not for us. They're for the people.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. They're for us to use for the people. A hundred percent. That's why people can be in rebellion and um, and their gifts still work because it is for Oh, interesting. Because people, I have seen that. Mm-hmm. Me too. Um, even in myself where I'm not, where I need to be with God, where I'm in offense or I am, you know what I mean?
I'm, I know he's not like going, okay, this is the best place for you in unforgiveness or bitter, but I still get to. Be part of his plan. Yeah. 'cause he'll use anyone. He, he's looking for a vessel to, to use. That's not an excuse to abuse his grace. No. That is just sometimes I'm shocked that he would still talk to me when I behave so poorly.
Well that's because you're comparing him to people. Mm. That's what people do. People go, oh, yep, you're mad. I'm mad at you. So I'm, I'm just not gonna even look at you. I'm not gonna talk to you. Um, I'm offended by you or whatever. Even though I say I forgive you, I walk in forgiveness. You know, people do that.
And, and, and, and it's hard when, when leaders do that to people, whether it's parents mm-hmm. Um, the church leaders, teachers, whatever. Um, but that's what pe that's what man does. They do that well. We live in a performance based society where that is encouraged, right? Mm-hmm. It's all on our merit. Yeah. And so it's hard to remove that and go, oh, grace, grace, grace.
Yeah. 'cause that's who God is and that's who we're. Asked to be. Right. And that is also so foundational, going back to what we were talking about before, where why do the other churches not recognize this or, or operate in it. And the reason why is because they all believe they're still sinners. Right. And you are not going to operate in the power of God if you do not believe that he Jesus is your righteousness.
Yeah. You are not gonna walk in the power of God if you are consumed with shame and guilt. Yeah. And condemnation. You are not gonna walk in the power of God if you do not have a revelation of your redemption. And, and, uh, the religion that I was raised in definitely did not have. I mean, it was, you're a worm, you're a sinner, saved by grace.
Heard that you can never be enough. Um, you can never do enough. Yeah. Um, I think there's part of it that's true. I. Like, we could not have ever done enough to get saved like we were. Right. But we are now saved. We are now cease. So we let now live in a new covenant. Yeah. And I don't think people understand that.
Well, that's what the word says. The word says you are the righteousness of God through Christ. Mm-hmm. It's through what he did. Yes. It's not through what I did, adored. I did. Yes. Not through what Rebecca did or what you did. It's through what Christ did. And when you take him as your Lord and Savior, you now are uh, uh, walking in the inheritance.
You now get to receive the same benefits that Christ did because our God is so merciful and gracious. So I recently had somebody ask me, so I'm not a sinner anymore. So what hap what, what does it mean if I sin? It means you sinned. You're not. That's it. I, I said, and I said, you're not separated from God anymore.
Yeah. That doesn't, that sin didn't separate you from God. Right. Again, don't abuse his grace. Right. But that's what that means. Yeah. That's what sin is. You separate us from him. You're, you still have temptation. You still have. Opportunity to sin, which people do. But I am no longer a sinner. I am a daughter.
Well, I'm a son of God, actually, is what the word says. I'm a son of God. Yeah. And when we're led by the spirit, the spirit's leading us out of that, right? Mm-hmm. And I get people get stuck there. Yeah. So I have somebody that I'm kind of working with that is stuck in addiction and they are really having a hard time because they're also a Christian and they can't reconcile this and that.
Right. They don't to, I'm still here. They don't need to reconcile that. I was addicted to cigarettes and alcohol for years. And this is, I, I think in one of my previous, in one of our previous podcasts, I was talking about how I was in the garage smoking and um, I wasn't saved at that point. Um, but I smoked up until I.
10 or so years ago, and I had received salvation and my, my mother-in-law had said when she had found out that I had quit, she was like, Lisa, are you okay? Are you dying? And I was like, what? No. Why? Because she knew how much I enjoyed cigarettes and 'cause I'd go out on my porch. I'd, I'd have sex. You really did enjoy it.
I really did. Yeah. Yes. Um, Rebecca's known me for 20 plus years, so she's been, I, I did, I enjoyed it. I didn't have to, when I quit smoking, I did it through Christ. And I had tried, um, uh, prescription medications, like multiple. I tried. Um, um. Just, I, I tried doing what, uh, Joyce Meyers had had done. And, and I even did that when I, when I finally quit.
And that actually helped. I, every time I lit a cigarette, I was like, I, I am, uh, what did I say? I'm not a smoker anymore. I said, you know, I don't like smoking and I'd light up a cigarette. And I just, anyways, when I quit, it was not hard for me. And I had smoked since I was 12 or 13 years old, and I quit at 39.
I think the part, this is just a theory, um, because I have had food issues my entire life. Yeah. And for some reason just not having them anymore. And I, I believe that's God, right? Yeah. But I will say that when I'm tired or stressed out or in pain, like, you know, if something's happening, 'cause we just had a lot happen recently in our family.
Yeah. It's interesting how quickly I went back to that old pattern. Yeah. Because it's. It's a pattern now. It's a habit. Well, that's why it's so real, so relieve as you renew your mind. Mm-hmm. So I think I've sh shared with you the baseball Yes. Um, when throwing. Mm-hmm. And, um, you go, you'll go back to old patterns.
Mm-hmm. So that's, I believe that's one of the reasons why the Lord says to renew your mind daily. Yes. So that you can get a new pattern so that the pattern when you're tired and exhausted is his pattern, not yours. And as you go into those patterns, you're recognizing at that point you're like, oh, this is, I went into an old pattern.
Yeah. This is old me. Yeah. This isn't, this isn't the new me. Mm-hmm. This isn't the new creature in Christ. Right? Mm-hmm. And it is, what I do love about this journey is it's itchy now. It's like an itchy old sweater. Like I think, oh, I don't have to live like this anymore. Yeah. I don't have to. I'm not even gonna tell you what I do because you'd be grossed out.
My husband would at me, he goes, get out of the carb closet. I had a, a whole closet used to be designated for this behavior where this is mine. Don't go in here 'cause this is an emergency. This is an emergency fund, but I don't need it anymore. But it's good. Praise the Lord. Yeah, it is nice. Yeah, it's nice.
I, um, I can't tell you when it was the last time that I, well 'cause I used to, my favorite part was when I'd light up a cigarette and I'd smell and everybody's always grossed out by it. Not me. I was always loving it. Now I am not. I don't enjoy it. Um, when was the last time you smoked? 2014. 20. Oh, that recent?
Yeah. I just can't see it. I know. It's so funny. I know. I just think that we strive mm-hmm. Way too much. Yeah. Instead of rest. Yes. Yeah. You know, if you do really get hold of what Jesus did on the cross. And I think that we spend our whole entire Christian lives, um, at post salvation finding out what happened at the cross.
Right. Uh, but I think that if we really were to lay hold of what our redemption package is, that we would. And I think, honestly, that's why there's tears in heaven. You know how it says that when you get to heaven, he'll wipe away all of your tears? Yeah. I think it's because you have a revelation of the power that you are supposed to walk in on the earth and what was made available to you and that you feel bad.
Mm-hmm. That's what I think, that the tears in heaven, that's my own personal interpretation of what that says because if everything's so amazing in heaven, why would you be crying? Right. Right. Yeah. I have a feeling it's because you come to the realization of who you are in Christ. Yeah. I kind of envision this overwhelming love that we couldn't or wouldn't let take hold of us.
Yes. That too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. For sure. I think that that is totally accurate because there's times where God gives me a dose of love for someone and I can barely speak. Mm-hmm. And I know it. It's him because. I, I am not capable of that. I mean, I want to love people like him. Yeah. I really do. For sure.
And it's something I'm learning and growing in. Um, it's been a long journey, truly. But I, I think that there's even some people who might be difficult to love that I've been able to, to love mm-hmm. Because they've been, you know, particularly hurtful. Yeah. Yeah. Our grace stretchers. I just wanna thank you guys for watching.
We're, we're not done yet, but, um, please, if you're getting any value from this, please remember to like, and subscribe. It really helps us out. Helps us with the algorithms. Thank you. Why do you guys think that the church today, I mean, I think some churches actually believe in the power of God, but they avoid talking about it.
Why do you think they're doing that? Well, I would say because, uh, it's so controversial and so many people, um, are uncomfortable with that. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, I know a lot of times people will, um. Take the power, um, that they're watching or seeing. Like, I, I mean, I see a mock, many, um, ministers who I know are, you know, big ministers, very popular ministers when they do laying on of hands when they do things.
I know they mock people. They do, they, they really do bad. I mean, I see a lot, um, regarding one guy outta Texas, whom, whom I, I don't have an issue with. In fact, I really like him. Um, and I think he's a very anointed man, but because he's wealthy, you know, Christians apparently aren't supposed to be wealthy, um, according to the world, and I disagree with that.
Um. But I think when they see the power, at least I can, speaking from my experience mm-hmm. When I saw power, I had a hard time believing it. 'cause I never experienced it. I believed in the power when I walked up to, um, the front of the stage when I had gone with Rebecca and I didn't feel anything go through my body.
It wasn't like some electricity bolt. It wasn't I, nothing happened to me other than the power of God went in me. Mm-hmm. And I went and to the doctors the following week and a mass that was on my pancreas was completely gone. I experienced the power, but I had made fun of it before. I didn't, 'cause I didn't, I had never experienced, I didn't believe it.
I didn't understand it. Well, it's when we experience God and when we don't, here's, here's the part that I have a hard time with. Even though I have seen healings, I've been part of healings. I, I will say there's not a formula that I have been part of, not God. Every time that I've been part of it, it's been different.
Yeah. It's not like, I mean even I, I would say even with you when I've been in deep prayer for you, there is an instruction Yeah. That're getting that you need to do first Uhhuh, and sometimes it just happens right now. Yeah. This is what I have a hard time with, and I think this is what other people I just saw on Twitter, this guy was on the stage and people are coming up from healing and he's knocking 'em in the head, knocking one after another.
I mean, and they're all falling down. It's. I have it, it might be real, but it doesn't feel real. It feels like a performance. Right. And it doesn't feel real. I loathe that pushing. I, I absolutely hate it because it is like a performance and God just loves people so much and it's just, that's, that's the person trying to take glory for themselves.
And I, I just do not like that at all. But, um, one of the reasons to answer your question, I think that the church, it doesn't want to have to give you an answer if it doesn't work. Hmm. So somebody might have had hands laid on them and they didn't get healed, or the dead wasn't raised, or something like that.
And there's, like you were saying, there are different scenarios for every single person. Like there are reasons that the word says forgive, because unforgiveness opens a door to the enemy to, to allow him legally to put sickness on you. Yeah. Um, uh, you know, unforgiveness, offense, you know, there's a reason why God says before you even come and pray, go and fix whatever it is with your, with your brother so that you, you know, don't open a door.
Right. Um, and so I think that it's just a really easy way for the church to just not have to answer the uncomfortable of mm-hmm. Why didn't this work? Mm-hmm. Every single time. And it's like, I don't know what was going on in that lady's heart. That was perfect. I, I think it's okay to say. I don't know. Yes.
And because the word I can back it up with the word the word says to lean not under my own understanding, but to trust in him. So sometimes when I don't know, I, I don't know. I just will continue to trust in him and I trust that I don't have to know everything. Yeah. Yeah. We trust in him and we trust his word and believe his word.
Yes. And we are gonna have a upcoming podcast that I'm gonna just do a bleep for here, where we're gonna talk about why it's possible that we're not trusting his word and believing in him. Yeah. We're gonna be discussing, maybe it has something to do with us not believing our own word. Yeah. Amen. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.
That's big. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, he could have been working on that person that died of, of an illness to forgive somebody for the last 20 years. And that isn't something that, that I could necessarily know. Or even if it's, if it is told, like for instance, with the word of knowledge, you need to forgive your dad or you need to forgive.
You know, so and so, if you make the choice not to, you are not gonna get healed. Well, and this is something I think I did wrong early on, um, years ago when we would go just praying for people on healing. Um, I didn't pray about it. I just assumed that I'm always supposed to do that. Mm. And what I've learned in the last few years is I need to pray about it because it does affect the outcome of people's belief systems.
Yeah. And meaning I don't, I'm not, I'm gonna pray before I pray for you. Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. I am. I I would just run and pray and lay hands on people. There's a, there's a scripture, um, and there might be a couple that says exactly that thing. Don't be hasty to lay hands on people. And there, there is definitely, I haven't read that scripture yet.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I did. I mean, I have now, but it, it is there because. We have to use discernment. Mm-hmm. Yes. So we don't hurt somebody's walk. Yeah. And I, I feel like I drastically hurt somebody's walk doing that. And, um, well, God will redeem and take care of things and I, I know he, he's, he's good God. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. But I was walking in faith and it seems he seems to cover that, but the more we know, the more we're responsible for. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And, and our journey is a learning journey. Like, this is the first time we have walked on this planet, you know? And so we're all hopefully trying our best. Uh, but yeah, we're going to make mistakes.
And I think that God's bigger than that. He is. He is. Yeah. I am really, I think the biggest problem people have are the manipulation or the emotionalism associated with using these gifts in a wrong way. And what I think the problem people have, it seems to be for monetary gain. Mm-hmm. Yes. I was just gonna say.
For money. Mm-hmm. Um, Paula Dean, which I talk about her frequently, lately, um, was basically a, a couple months ago, or was Easter, during Easter saying If you send a thousand dollars, you'll get your prayers answered. That doesn't work that way. No. But it is these things where people get mixed up and how these gifts are for and what they're for.
That make people think it's all wrong, I think. Right. That it's all a big phony thing. Yeah. And it, I think it's such a great tool of the enemy to, to, you know, Pauline, I had never heard her say anything like that. It was insane. I, if I hadn't heard it with my own ears, I would be, what is happening? You can't say that.
Right? Yeah. You're, if you send somebody a thousand dollars, you're, you have no better chance of your prayer being answered. Right. That's not how God works. That's not how God works. God's no respect for persons. No, I don't wanna. Rip her, but it's, she's just the, the common, um, person, the current. Mm-hmm. But I think it happens a lot and I think people get frustrated by it.
And I've seen it a lot. And this is, I think what people call the prosperity gospel. Yes. And I think it's confusing because God does want us to have the things we need. He wants us to have the tools we need to spread and do the kingdom work. Right. Um, and, you know, I don't think he desires for us to be in lack.
He wants, I don't see a, I don't see a scripture that backs that up. No. And he wants to provide for us. Yeah. I think I get really upset though when people misuse this. Mm-hmm. And it, I, I don't even think it's on purpose. Sometimes I've, I've been to a church before where it's something similar, like, you can have this too.
Well. If that's what we're seeking, right? I, I'm going to church, I'm going to seek God. Right? Yeah. I'm going to seek a closer intimacy with him. Mm-hmm. If nice things happen, great. Yeah. But I think, I think we get caught up in that wrong message. I do think that, that, that spiritual abuse, there you go. It is spiritual abuse.
Mm-hmm. But I, I don't manipulation, I don't think so. The, the person I heard say it recently,
I, I felt their heart on it and I don't think that was their heart, but it came out really wrong. Mm-hmm. And I think we have to really just say, Hey, you need to give because of the generosity that you're feeling within your heart and that you're comfortable and joyful of giving. Yeah. And I think we can stop it there.
Yeah, I agree. I don't think we need to give further direction. I do love how Pillar Church does it in Scottsdale. I don't think he ever mentions it. Really, I don't think he ever mentions, he just has faith that the church is gonna run and it runs. Yeah. He doesn't even mention it. And I get a lesson on it.
I get to understand tithing. 'cause we are all in a lot of, um, or not, we, I guess I'm not gonna say that the p the world Yes. You know, has financial issues. People fi uh, money is needed. Yes. Yeah. Money is a necessary tool. Mm-hmm. But also it causes struggle in relationships. Mm-hmm. It causes people view money differently.
It, it can be a huge issue. Yeah. It's the number one reason for divorce. Right. Okay. It's also one of the number one things that Jesus spoke about. Okay. He address money. A lot of times he did. Yeah. He really did. And he didn't seem to be afraid of it. No, not afraid. And there's a common perception out there that Jesus was broke.
Right. And he was not. And he was not. He. Why would you need a, a money handler, what do you call that? An accountant? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, if, if there was no money, right. Which is what Judas was. Mm-hmm. So, um, and he, it's, it's so clear that he had, you know, uh, especially some wealthy women that were funding his ministry and he had a house and just there, the clothing that he wore, I know that was once, that was, that was high end.
Mm-hmm. Not once did I hear him say anything bad about the wealthy women for having money for supporting him. No. But I have been to a church where I felt guilty for having some. Money where I felt guilty that I had things. Hmm. And, um, no, that's, how can, how can people be provided for if was people in the church don't have the money?
Exactly. But that church didn't have any money either. So it's interestinghmm. So they didn't want, they had a really bad attitude towards people with money. Oh. And it kind of made me have a guilt. Not that I have like a ton of money, but I'm okay. We're like, we're comfortable. Like we have lights, we have food, we have more than we need.
Right, right. Yeah. So that's America. Yeah. Yeah. That's America. And it's also, if Ephesians three 20, God will give you exceedingly, abundantly above all that you could ask or think or imagine. And to be able to spread the gospel. It takes money. It does, it does. Yeah. When Rebecca, she's gone to Africa eight times.
Eight times. I was gonna say. Okay. So eight times that takes money. Yeah. I, when I sent my son last year, um, that was almost $5,000. And that was just for one. And she's been called, her husband's been called, and they have gone multiple times in one year. It takes money. It takes money, and they go for two weeks.
And, and they're not working during that time. I mean, they're doing God's work. Mm-hmm. Um, and then they've got children that need to be provided for, they have a house that needs to, you know, they still have all these other things. And that's only two people going into the mission field. Mm-hmm. For a temporary time.
There's, there's at times multiple teams going with, with a bunch of people. And so, you know, how, how do you get, I mean, I've given money to, towards the, um, towards the school out there, um, capstone, um, we've, you know, provided, um, shoes and, and, and Rebecca's taken that, they've taken all of that. And that costs money.
That costs, it costs money even costs money to load it on the airplane and take it so it, it's not a cheap. Thing to do. It, it actually costs money. The Lord needs, well, he doesn't need money. He's, he's got it, but he needs us to have it so that it can be provided out in the field. Mm-hmm. I have a really cool testimony that just came to me.
Um, one of the, one of the times that we went to Uganda, uh, I was preaching and the Lord had told me a couple of weeks before that, Hey, gather some extra Bibles, and so I Oh, yeah. Called around and, right. Hey, do you have any extra Bibles in your house that I can take and, and give away over there? Which, what a gift.
Yikes. Right. I mean, the Bible is the absolute best gift that you could ever give someone because it has the instruction manual for life. And everything that you could possibly need in there doesn't matter. Yeah. So just saying plug Yeah, plug the, plug away. The Bibles. The Bibles here, um, are the best gift.
But anyway, I, so I had a, a vision, which is another way that God can speak to you, um, of, of a man weeping because he didn't, he wanted a Bible. He wanted to be able to be closer to the Lord. And, um, unbeknownst to me, I, I mean, I didn't know that he was seeking that. The Lord showed me that, so that I would, uh, take these bibles with me.
So I start preaching and then it comes to that part of the, of the service, which by the way, women can preach. Um, and this sounds like another podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and. How I kind of narrowed it down 'cause there was a thousand people there, probably. How I narrowed it down was, you know, hey, which of you can can read and which of you can read English?
And there's, you know, several and don't have a Bible. And I gave, um, several bibles out at that time. But the one in particular that he had showed me the vision of, he, uh, he was just so gracious. Mm-hmm. And, and the reason why it always just is so cool is because we were the first white people to ever step foot there.
Wow. There had never been any missionaries there or anything like that. I mean, how cool is that? Yeah. That we went out into the, I mean, and it was, it was out in the middle of nowhere. I kept telling my husband, if the world's flat we're about to fall, that's it. We hit it. We went into the middle of the bush in Africa for sure.
But it was the coolest thing because they had never seen a white person before. There had never been the gospel, um, from missionaries preach there before and. I, I said, you know, 'cause we were talking about provision. One of the things that I said is, could you have possibly imagined that a white woman from the other side of the planet would've been handing you answering your prayer?
Mm. So we put God in a box on how he can get things to us. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. And so, yes, I do believe absolutely in prosperity and stuff like that, but if you have faith, God will get you the prosperity. He will get it. If you are led by the spirit of God, he will get it to you. There is no way that that man would've expected this white woman from the other side of the planet to hand to my white, but God answered his prayer.
Amen. Mm-hmm. Amen. And I do believe that God does answer these prayers, and he doesn't want us to be living and like he did, provide a abundant life. And that didn't just mean spiritually. That means all of the ways, right? Mm-hmm. That's who our God is. Amen. Um. I don't like how it's misused. Yeah. De definitely.
Yeah. But speaking of the gifts of the spirit, Ray, he showed me that two weeks before we left. That's awesome. It is. That's so awesome. It's so cool. Yeah. It's the coolest thing to be able to commune with the Lord like that, and I can't imagine not having that. Mm. Have you guys ever heard from God audibly?
Like from outside? No, I did one time. Mm-hmm. That was when I was, um, uh, I was 14. I was laying in a bed. It's kind of an embarrassing story, but, um, this is when I lived in California. I had ran away from home. I was living at this house and um, I woke up in my own urine and I had heard, 'cause I had been, I had done these drugs and anyways, I woke up and I had heard an audible voice say, if you do not leave, if moved to Idaho, you will die.
Mm-hmm. And I immediately called my mom and said, you know, can I come home? And then that facilitated me. My grandparents were moving to Idaho. I didn't know that. But that's, that was the one time I've never heard anything. But, 'cause I was looking around going like, who said that? And so I just, I was like, oh gosh, that scared me.
And that was many, I mean, 34, 44 years ago. So this is another thing people are a little bit afraid of. And I think this is my was, somebody had brought it up to me recently, and I think it's weird that we don't hear from him more. Mm-hmm. I mean, in the beginning he spoke audibly to everyone. And I think it's, that's the further away we are.
I mean, I have not heard him audibly. Mm-hmm. But I, I am not opposed to thinking he doesn't speak audibly to somebody in a real situation. I don't believe post Christ resurrection that anyone heard him audibly. I might be wrong. I don't either, but I don't also see anywhere where it says we can't. No, totally.
Yeah. But I just don't think it's the norm. No, no, I don't either. Yeah. I have never heard anything since then. Uh, that was the one time Yeah, I have heard, heard it. And that's because you weren't saved? Yeah, like I think, oh, yes. Yes. Paul heard from Jesus on the road to Damascus. Not saved. Oh, not saved. Yeah.
I don't know if there's anything to that. I'm just saying, like pointing out in the scripture. Mm-hmm. Um, of course he's gonna have to speak from the outside. Mm-hmm. Because he's not inside. Interesting. Yeah. That's an interesting point. And even when he did speak like that is every, well, no, that isn't the story.
I just recently heard. They were saved, but they were going down a road again. Um, he had to get their attention. Yeah. Like in a miraculous way. 'cause it was, it's an, it's a person of huge influence who needed he who truly needs help in this area because he's an incredible influence. Yeah. And I am definitely not saying obviously, that God can't, with God, all things are possible.
I feel like in discernment, I feel like there's no reason for him to make that story up. No. Right. No, no, no, no. I, I'm, I don't know who you're talking about. I haven't experienced it either. That was the one time, but I re I remember hearing it 'cause it scared me. Yeah. I think it scared him too. I was like, what?
What? Like God's real. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it scared me. Yep. That is an interesting, never heard anything, ever, you know, but it's all these things. It's like I didn't understand God's love until I experienced it. Yeah. I didn't understand God's voice until I heard it on the inside of me. Mm-hmm. I, you know, and I think that's the problem with the power is you're not allowing yourself to experience it.
Right. Not you, you guys, but people in general. In general. Yeah. And I think it's. Wrong. It's wrong because these powers of God that live in us do bring people to Christ. Mm-hmm. They do go, okay, this is real. You couldn't possibly have known that without me. Okay. God is real. I, this just got healed. I couldn't walk.
Yeah. Or the lady we prayed over who had an aneurysm, who wasn't gonna make it till the next morning, and I see her a year later at a Christmas party. God. And shes me. Praise God. And I'm like, I don't even know who you are. Praise God. That's awesome. But her family remembered me. Praise so awesome. Yeah. You know, like, I just know that, that's amazing.
Yeah. Well, and it's, and it's, and I say this all the time. I have been blessed, so blessed to go to Uganda where, where we talked about, we see a lot of these miracles and healings and stuff like that manifest because there is no plan B. Mm-hmm. There is no possible way that I could go back. So once you start experiencing the power of God, yeah.
There's just no way. I can't imagine going to a church that doesn't have signs, miracles, and wonders, because I can't unwind what I've, the experiences that I've had. No, I've had miraculous, not miraculous, but I've had healing in my body. Mm-hmm. I have seen the most amazing miracle. I have seen people raised from the dead before.
So to entertain the, the lack of power and just this medioc vanilla. Christianity. I just, I don't, it's just, it's not for me. And it's kind of your passion, right? You want people to understand the power of God. Yes. Well, I think that's why Rebecca is the way she is. Um mm-hmm. Because she goes into the depths where there you, you have to be bold.
You cannot be, you can't be meek. You cannot be meek and do what she has done and what she does. You just can't because there's spiritual warfare going on there. Like it's one of the darkest places on the planet, I'm convinced. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, you go toe to toe with witchcraft for sure. And, um, you better know who you are.
You better know who you are. And, and the other thing is, um, it's. It's open there, here, there is witchcraft, obviously, and, and you can get into witchcraft, which is, which is even gossip to be honest. But, but it, that the actual practice of mm-hmm. Of actual witchcraft and, and human sacrifice and animal sacrifice and, and that type of thing.
Um, because there's life in the blood. There's power in the blood, right? And so, um, uh, everyone. Hmm. Knows. Mm-hmm. A witch doctor. Everyone knows. I mean, it's not on the underbelly of society. It isn't something that's hush hush. Everybody knows that there is power in darkness and there's power in the light there.
And I think that that's another reason why we see so many things there is because you can just skip over all the vanilla Christianity of whether demons exist, whether there is power in darkness, know whether there's, whether angels exist. Yeah. Like in, in Uganda, in my experience, you get to start on level five or in the American church, you have to just be like, well, no, you know, careful how you say it so you don't offend.
Yeah. So you don't offend people. You don't offend Dental Lee who says, I don't like the way you're hating their heads. Well, no, that's a different, that's a different thing. I mean, that has to, that that person needs to be led by the Holy Spirit, right? Yeah. Like it didn't feel like it when I saw it on Twitter.
Because there have been times where the Holy Spirit like really stretched me in ways of, of getting people healed or, or whatever. But I, but it's not the norm. And I don't think that you just sh people. I don't, it's a formula. Don't, I don't think you hit everybody. I have had moments where, um, I have had hands laid on me, and again, I didn't feel anything.
But there was one time I had an experience, um, at your church and the head pastor, I had just gone up with a friend of mine who came to receive healing for her dad. And so I was like, she's, she says, will you come up with me? I was like, sure, yeah, I'm gonna stay. So I stood there and the pastor barely touched my arm and my feet went out from underneath me and I went down and I don't, I did not even expect that.
I was like, what? What happened? I didn't feel anything. And I got up and I was just. I was really just happy and felt good, and I was like, I'm not sure what happened, but whatever. I received it. Um, and I, but I didn't have that every time, and I've had hands laid on me multiple times. So, and I, I've seen that happen where people, they fall under the weight of the spirit where they call it slain in the spirit.
Is that what that is? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. And I, I, you can kind of, I feel discern that, okay, this is really happening. There's a move of God happening here. Yeah. But I could think you can also discern when it's not, if you're listening to the spirit when there's a performance. Well, I think about Smith Smith Wigglesworth, there was things that he did.
Very unconventional. Yeah. Very unconventional. Um, and I do believe that still happens. Mm-hmm. I, I do too. I, and, but I don't think it's. Everybody. And it's not tied to money. No. Like you don't have to give a thousand dollars to get healed. Right. You don't have to give money to get healed. No. You don't have to have money to have your prayers answered.
You don't have to give money for these things. You do it because you want to 'cause your heart. Amen. Overflowing with the grace of God. Yeah. And for what Jesus has done for you, and you wanna give back and grow the kingdom. Amen. Mm-hmm. That's why we give freely. We give because freely we receive. Yes. Yeah.
Not there's, there's no need to be an extortion. No. There is no ex God is not an extortionist. No. Well, that just goes to show the, the leader's lack of faith in finances. Yes. Um, or maybe there misuse of finances. Mm-hmm. Because Absolutely you don't pay for healing. Mm-hmm. Exactly. It's a free gift from God.
Amen. And you don't even need somebody to lay hands on you. You can receive it on your own. So for Christians who are listening, who have never experienced the power of God. What would you say to them? Are you filled with the Holy Spirit and do you speak in tongues? How do they get filled with the Holy Spirit?
You just ask for it the same way that you do salvation. You just say, Lord, I would like to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I receive it as a free gift right now. And I would like to be, uh, receive the gift of speaking in tongues. And he will do it for you. He will, and I think, or you find somebody that is filled and, and that's maybe easier.
So that didn't, it didn't happen for me right away. Mm-hmm. I had to pray about it a little bit. And I think the speaking in tongues part mm-hmm. And I think I, I prayed and then I didn't realize that it really was happening. Um, I think what really helped me was reading acts. Oh yeah. Acts two over and over.
And understanding this is real. This is, this is 'cause somebody had put in my mind that, that I admired and respected that this wasn't for me. That this was for real Christians. Oh, alright. Right. Well, I guess you're a real Christian. Yeah. Like somebody who's really, you know, been doing it a long time. I see.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's not true. Right. Um, and I was a real Christian for a long time, but yeah, I actually didn't receive it at the same time either. Mm-hmm. But that wasn't because. Uh, it's not available at the time. Right. You don't have, there's some beliefs that you have to carry that you have to wait for it.
Mm-hmm. The reason why I didn't receive it at the same time is because I didn't know. Mm-hmm. I received the, the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues on my own, just through my own study Yes. In the Bible. So yes, you can do that. Mm-hmm. But it took me four months. Mm-hmm. I was filled with the Holy Spirit and then it took me another four months to, to uh, receive the gift of speaking in tongues.
'cause I didn't have any, uh, teaching. I had no concept of it whatsoever. I was just going straight to the source. And that was because I didn't trust any man. Because I had been, um, kinda led down the wrong path. And I wanted to be like, okay, God, I know that your word is true and I'm getting it directly from the source.
'cause I don't know who to listen to. So you can have it immediately. It can take time. Um, it can be for different reasons. Like I, I had, I needed my belief to be built, I believe, because I didn't think I even believed it. Mm-hmm. So, and I, I, I think that's okay too. Mm-hmm. Because now my belief in it is much stronger than it had been.
I just had a situation recently, and I've run into it several times actually. If you have been filled with the Holy Spirit and you believe that you have spoken in tongues before, but you have kind of shelfed that or put it to the side, uh, because, because you have been told, or you feel, or the enemy is kind of whispered in your ear, maybe that you're just speaking gibberish or whatever, pick it back up again because you're speaking out the mysteries of God.
You are, it is called the perfect prayer. Um, and you can read about, you know, speaking in tongues in the Bible, but it's such a precious, precious gift. It it builds you up. It builds up the strength of, of your, it does inner man, um, like Jude says, to pray in the spirit. Um, because it, it builds up your inner inner man.
Could you do a prayer for, uh, let's, for anyone in the audience to help them walk through this, um. On how they get filled with the Holy Spirit. Yeah, absolutely. You can get saved by yourself at home right now. Yeah. Just praying to yourself. Or you can get filled with the Holy Spirit, but we're just gonna pray with you right now.
That's what I, I'm saying, filled with the Holy Spirit. Mm-hmm. So if you have received Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and you want to receive the gift of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and then also receive the gift of speaking in tongues, just call out to him and say, heavenly Father, I receive right now the infilling of your Holy Spirit as a free gift.
I thank you Lord for filling me right now with the Holy Spirit and with power. Thank you Lord for giving me the free gift. I ask for the gift of speaking in tongues and I receive it now in Jesus' name. Jesus. Amen. If you speak that in faith, there you go. There you go. Praise God. And make sure that you tell us if you did.
Yeah, please. Please. It makes us happy to Yeah. Amen. Yeah. To know, and if you have questions, type 'em in the comment section. If you have a misunderstanding or you think we got something wrong, give us a chance to show you or prove, prove the word to you, scripture. Amen. Or, or not. Or you prove the word dust.
Yeah. Amen. Yeah. We're open to, uh, correction. So when do you guys speak in tongues? When is that a practice for you? I do it every day. Mm-hmm. Um, oh, wow. I I do not. Oh, you don't? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I do it every day a lot of times. Oh yeah. I guess I do. When I'm getting ready. Mm-hmm. When I have my alone time, when I'm getting ready, I do, uh, when I'm in prayer with my family, we do, if, if somebody else is leading, oh wow.
I, I always back 'em up, um, in prayer. Um, if we're, if I'm praying, if, if I'm with somebody praying, if, if Rebecca and I were praying over you, she was praying, I'd be covering her in prayer, um, uh, speaking in tongues, um, I do it when I don't know what to pray for the person a lot. That's a perfect time to do it.
Yes. 'cause when I don't know what to pray for them, but I want to pray for them, or I'm not getting a word, I do that a lot. Mm-hmm. Or when I don't know the person that I'm praying for, I do it when I have anxiety, um, on the treadmill. When do you do it, Rebecca? Um, I pray in tongues daily. Uh, probably all day long.
I'm a real believer in Oh wow. In that pray without ceasing, I, I do pray without ceasing, but I don't do it in tongues all day. Like That's interesting. Yeah. I really do do it quite often, I think because. It staves off like a lot of anxiety and, and stuff like that. And, um, now that my kids are both in school, well they're in in summer break right now, but, um, I have my quiet time in the morning, so I'm definitely praying in tongues then.
Uh, and also praying with my understanding, praying in English. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I, I pray in the spirit probably all day. Like even if it just whenever I'm prompted. Okay. Yeah. So I do not do it that much, but that's interesting. That's okay. That no, yeah. Everyone's guided differently. Mm-hmm. Um, I do believe that you are being prepared for big works too, and you go into a mean Yeah.
She goes into mighty places. You, you go into big places mm-hmm. Where the huge spiritual warfare. Yeah. And so, and you're going again, aren't you? I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. Absolutely. I mean, I planned to. Mm-hmm. I know the Lord told me that I was called to Africa when I was like eight years old, and I.
Had had some of the most miraculous experiences there and yeah, I'm really looking forward to going back because, um, it feels like home. Wow. Which is so strange to say because, but that's how you know that it's, you know, from God that's for you. You've been graced for it. Right. You've been I've been graced for it and it just.
You know that it's from God because, um, I don't think very many people would choose to live there. No, I, I don't desire, like, no. When, when you guys have all went on missions, I have not. Or, you know, our other friends too. Yeah. I, I had no desire at all. Mm-hmm. To do that kind of work. That's re Rebecca and I have talked about this before.
I'm like, that's you boo. You got that girl. That's not my place. I, I'll pray from you for here. From here. And I did. And that I need that. I did. I need that. Or we need that when, uh, especially if you're woken up in the middle of the night 'cause they are nine or 10 hours ahead. But, uh, yeah, it's, um, we all play our part.
Right. And I'm totally willing to go. I'm willing and obedient to go. I love it there. Yes, she has. Mm-hmm. That's awesome. And, um, I'm so grateful for all the experiences that I've had there for sure. And just the, it really has accelerated and I think the mission field does this for a lot of people, but it really has accelerated the gifts in my life.
I will say that everyone I know who has been on missions to Africa in particular comes back a different human being. Yes. I mean, very different. Mm-hmm. Um, or I actually, I just had a friend recently go to Columbia too, who has come back. A completely different person. Yes. Mm-hmm. Lost all. Of the baggage.
Yeah, she did. Mm-hmm. It's so, it really is. God is faithful. Oh yeah. So good. Yeah, for sure. And when you commit yourself to doing the work of God, you know, you're the hands and feet of God. Like, um, he does shift things and I guess shifts your perspective to know that. It's all about him and I think this is okay.
It's okay that she prays like she does. It's okay that she goes on missions. It's okay that I don't, yeah. Me a million percent. And it's okay wherever you are that you do what God leads you to. Yes. And I think sometimes that, okay. 'cause it rose up in me just a little bit. Oh, maybe I should want that. Yeah, but I don't And that's okay.
It totally is okay. Because, you know, we, we all are parts of the body. Mm-hmm. Yes. And you need the parts of the body. You need the pinky toe, you need the nose, you need the eyes, you know, and we all have different functions. And I think that's what we close on. One Corinthians 12 was the whole point of this whole podcast that there are different parts and different, we have different giftings.
Mm-hmm. And all are needed and they are distributed for a reason. Right. Yeah. We need our hands, we need our nose, we need all of the parts of the body. And that's why we all get gifts. Some of them the same, some of them different, some of them at different times. And I think that that's amazing and beautiful, that we can all be part of one body.
Yes. Amen. Amen. Yeah. Alright. Thank you guys and God bless you. Stay tuned to our next episode, which is going to be on why you might not believe believing God's word. Thank you guys for watching. Bye. Thank you guys. Good.