Amanda (00:00)
Hey, hey, you're listening to the Level Up Creators podcast. Amanda Northcutt here, founder and CEO. We help creators and digital thought leaders like you turn your knowledge and experience into rock solid recurring revenue. And we are so glad you're here. Welcome. Today, my special guest, PR expert, Christina Lenkowski and I are talking all about the power of podcast guesting as a strategic top of funnel lead source and exactly how to do it.
But first, a bit more about Christina. In 2019, after 13 years working in PR, Christina discovered what being a guest on podcasts did for her online -based business. And since then, she's dedicated her work to helping other business owners, particularly women, see the same kind of results.
Christina is now a podcast publicist and educator for entrepreneurs, speakers, and authors looking to expand their credibility and go from best kept secret to go to expert in their industry through being a guest on other people's podcasts. Christina has been a guest on over 60 podcasts herself and has helped her private clients get booked on over 800 top rated shows. Wow. Christina lives in Boise, Idaho with her husband and daughter. Welcome, Christina.
Christina (01:08)
I am so jazzed to be here amongst you and also my fellow creators that are out here listening. I'm really excited to share this knowledge because I think it's something that just is gonna benefit so many of the listeners that we have here today.
Amanda (01:25)
Absolutely. And before we get into the questions, just so our listeners have a little bit of context, you and I met this past summer in person, actually at ConvertKit's annual Craft and Commerce Conference in your hometown of Boise. And I love podcasting and being best on other podcasts. And you and I each work with a very similar archetype of knowledge creator. So there was kind of a lot of natural synergy between us straight out of the gate. And I hope it goes without saying, but at Level Up, are
Christina (01:35)
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Amanda (01:53)
big time believers in the power of podcasting. And I am so excited to extract a lot of your wisdom on behalf of our listeners today. So thank you again in advance. You are about to drop about a million knowledge bombs here. So this is gonna be really, really helpful. Everybody needs to really dial in and listen up.
Christina (02:06)
Get ready, get those AirPods turned up. No, I'm so excited that we met. And I think it's important to also point out just the power of attending live events just for that very reason, right? know, a lot of people, you know, talk about all these different ways of networking and all these different ways of meeting other people. And there are so many different ways to do that. But I still believe that one of the most powerful ways is meeting people in
Amanda (02:12)
That's right.
Christina (02:35)
person and just saying hello and reaching out to folks. And I just think that that's also an important thing to keep in mind when you are thinking about being a guest on more podcasts. A lot of people that attend these events are podcast hosts. So the more people that you get to know, the more potential opportunities you could have to be getting in front of their audiences and sharing even more knowledge.
Amanda (03:00)
That's right. There's no online substitute for that in -person sort of like solidification of a relationship that probably started on LinkedIn or Twitter or whatever the case may be. But yeah, you're absolutely right. The in -person thing is still very powerful. As it turns out, we are still human and that...
Christina (03:09)
Absolutely. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So what we're saying is come join us at Craft and Commerce next year.
Amanda (03:21)
Are they sponsoring this podcast? sounds like it.
Christina (03:25)
Yeah, I know. We should send a note out to them afterwards. Yeah, exactly. He'll love it. He'll love it. Yes.
Amanda (03:30)
Tag Nathan on my LinkedIn post. All right, well, let's start by running back the clock a little bit to 2019 when you really, really saw the fruit of your labor in discovering the power of podcast casting. So in hindsight, to me at least, that feels like pretty fortuitous timing right before the pandemic when everything went online. So I'd love for you to kind of walk us through that transition in your life and business and then how the events of 2020
Christina (03:53)
Mm -hmm.
Amanda (04:00)
further shaped your business model.
Christina (04:03)
Absolutely, Yes, so you mentioned in the intro, but I worked in and for PR agencies and in -house PR for companies for well over a decade before I had my daughter in 2014 and then decided that I didn't want to necessarily be a senior account exec anymore for a PR agency, PR company, et cetera. And so I did a couple years of freelance work and then went into
specifically focusing on tourism PR. That was my particular area of expertise. I had grown up in that world. My mom was the director of the Agribusiness Council of Oregon. So I kind of grew up in this world of like tourism, agritourism, know, promoting it in those types of ways. And so that was my particular area of interest, my particular area of expertise. And so I freelanced in that world for quite a while. And then I was like, probably so many of you out there.
where I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do a course. Like I'm gonna make a course on this. It's gonna sell a million dollars in my sleep. I'm not even gonna have to do anything. Like I'm just gonna create it. It's gonna be done. Boom. You know, bing bang boom, million dollars in my bank account. And I drank all the Kool -Aid around that, you know, and was all up in that world. And...
Amanda (05:21)
Yeah.
Christina (05:26)
I loved the process of creating the course. I loved all that. I loved sharing my knowledge. But when it came time to promote the course and actually sell the course, I went about in the way that everybody at that particular time, 2018 -ish, was saying to do that. Ads to a webinar, to an email funnel, to a million sales, right? And so I was like, perfect, this is the way this is gonna work, makes sense.
So the reason I'm saying this is I wanna be really clear that I was teaching publicity and I did no publicity for my course, okay? And in a shock to no one except for me, it didn't go well. There wasn't a lot sold. I remember my partner was like, so what are we doing here? And I was like, stop it. Like you don't know, like you don't even get it, right? Whatever.
Amanda (06:11)
Hmm.
Christina (06:22)
And then the next time I went to go launch the course, I tapped back into my intuition. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna do this my way. And so what I started to do is get myself booked on podcasts that were full of the ideal audience that I was looking to get in front of. And you know, I didn't have any fear around doing this because for again, for the past decade plus before that, I had been pitching magazines, TV, radio, right, et cetera. So I was very comfortable in that lane.
And I started to get booked on these podcasts. And when I was on the shows, it was night and day for my business. People that were reaching out to book me as a consultant, to have me come speak at their events, just purchasing my course right off the bat, right? Like I didn't have to go through this big long sales extravaganza. They just heard me on a show and they were like, I really like what she's saying. And it kind of went from there. And the reason that I'm telling you all this is because that's when I saw that shift.
That's when I knew that, okay, this is the way for me to really be promoting in a way that a lot of people should be promoting their business, right? By the way, publicity doesn't cost anything. So I wanna be very clear on that. This is never something that I'm paying to be, I haven't paid Amanda under the table to be a guest here today, right? And you never ever should, okay? And so this was something that I was just very passionate about starting to teach other business owners.
Amanda (07:36)
You
Christina (07:45)
other entrepreneurs, other course creators, how to be doing this work. And so I kind of started to dabble in this and then COVID hit, 2020 hit. And pretty much right away, the writing was on the wall for tourism. I knew very quickly there was not going to be any, any, and this was, when, how we all thought it was just gonna be three weeks. Remember that lovely time period where we all just watched Tiger King?
Amanda (08:08)
No, I sure do. Ignorance is bliss.
Christina (08:13)
Yeah, we just watched Tiger King and we just like made bread and just like, you know, lived our lives and that we're like, well, we got to sit at home for three weeks, but like that's it. And even that I was like, tourism, the amount of money they're going to lose is, is going to be a lot. Right. And so I knew that that was going to, that that was going to dry up. So really I kind of immediately made this pivot into teaching people how to get booked on podcasts because it was something we all could do during COVID. You could be sitting at home doing a podcast.
and you could easily be sitting at home listening to a podcast. I don't know about you, but there were times when like, I still want to be around my family. Like I love them. I love them exactly. But I was like, I'm going to go to my room and I'm going to listen to other people talk. And that was like what happened for so many of us during COVID. And so it was fortuitous that I kind of had this experience pre -COVID, but then I also was doing this.
Amanda (08:50)
Need to go on a social distance walk, walk the dog.
Christina (09:10)
right as podcasts exploded. Because during COVID and during the pandemic, wow. I mean, the amount of people that started listening to podcasts, started their own podcasts, right, et cetera, just multiplied by so many X, you know? And so I was teaching people how to do this and that was all great. But I had just had a lot of people by the end of that year that were like, yeah, no, no, this is great. But like, could you just do it?
And so I started doing it on behalf of people, started pitching them onto shows and then grew the agency that we have today.
Amanda (09:47)
Nice. mean, you talk about timing and your go -to -market strategy. That could not have been any better. Wow. What a natural lead -in to your business.
Christina (09:54)
Yes. Yes. It's, I think that's Oprah's. Oprah's quote is one of my all time favorite quotes. Well, at least that's who I heard it from. You may correct me if I'm wrong, but it was luck is preparation meets opportunity. And 100 % that is what happened to me in that moment. Absolutely. I was prepared in that. The opportunity came up just with everyone being at home and that huge increase in podcasts. And we were able to grow from there.
Amanda (10:22)
That is so interesting. I have not heard that quote, but funnily enough, when we launched Level Up Creators, L -U -C, luck, right? We were like, well, this has nothing to do with luck whatsoever. Creating a business with substantial MRR that paves the way for generational wealth. But if we use that statement...
Christina (10:31)
Mm -hmm. -huh, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Amanda (10:48)
borrowed from Oprah, make sure we get the attribution correct. That sounds like an Oprah -ism, but we'll double check. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that marketing campaign idea. I appreciate that. can bill me after the show.
Christina (10:51)
Yeah, it does. yeah, but double check. Yeah.
I love it. Okay, I'll send you a quick invoice just when we're done.
Amanda (11:04)
Hahaha
Christina (11:07)
No, but I'm glad you're, because I love that quote and I just think it's so, I just think it's so true. It's like we just, we're prepared at that moment and then something, a door is open for us and we just have to not be afraid to walk through it.
Amanda (11:16)
Yeah.
That's right. I love that. Okay, we could go down a rabbit hole there. Maybe we'll come back to that, but let's get back to podcasting. I'm very interested in sort of the evolution of PR from a digital age perspective. So when did podcasting really become standard fare? When did PR firms start considering podcasting to be standard fare?
Christina (11:35)
Absolutely.
honestly say around the time of COVID as well. And I truly think it was because a lot of people started to listen to them. And a lot of people started to get their news even in that way. And I think that that's the time when in the PR industry, they really had to pay attention. I think to a certain extent for many years before that, because podcasts have been around for a long time. And I think that...
For the first many years, people were kind of just like, especially people in the PR field were like, this is just a little hobby. Like it's gonna be a flash in the pan. It's not gonna be something that people really, you know, are gonna be into, right, et cetera. And then once COVID hit and probably, you know, a couple of years before that, but I would really say COVID was the turning point, especially with Spotify becoming as big as it did. That became a huge, huge thing in the PR world where they were like, we can't ignore this.
Amanda (12:16)
You
Alright.
Christina (12:38)
anymore, right? We can't just, you know, we can't just look this over for our clients because modern PR is truly storytelling. That is what modern PR is. When I think about how I was taught to do PR, when I think about how PR used to be, it was more so about controlling the narrative in the media, right? It was more so about
Amanda (12:40)
Mm.
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
Christina (13:01)
let us make sure that what's getting out there is exactly how we want it to be getting out there, right? And I mean, I was faxing press releases, y 'all. I was doing all that stuff like back in the day, right? It was a different thing. But nowadays in modern PR, it's really talking more about the story and the reason why people do what they do. And because of that, podcasts lend itself so naturally to that medium.
that I think that it's just become something that people just can't ignore in the PR world. With that being said, many of them don't do it, particularly as well as they do more traditional PR outlets. We have multiple clients that own PR firms.
Amanda (13:41)
Mm. Mm.
interesting. Okay. So I like that like modern PR is storytelling. I mean, for modern PR agency, if there's like a full stack agency, and this is just to satisfy my own curiosity and like the naming conventions being used here, but okay, we've got podcasting being featured in print and online publications, anything else? Or is that
Christina (13:47)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
I mean, there's a lot of people that would still absolutely say TV. TV being something that people still want to be on. With that being said, I really believe TV for the most part, unless you're on a big show like the Today Show or something like that, that's much more locally focused, right? Like you're gonna look at TV if you're more so looking to build your impact in the immediate area that you're in.
Amanda (14:28)
Mm
Christina (14:39)
But yeah, mean, radio to a certain extent, although radio has become so pay for play in a lot of instances that that's kind of hard. But I would say TV, definitely print online. Like you mentioned, those are still gonna be big areas. And then podcasts, yeah.
Amanda (14:55)
All right, thank you, I appreciate that. Hopefully that was educational for everybody listening. I'm always curious about the delineation between those two and how that's evolved. So, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
Christina (14:59)
Yeah.
Yeah, yep, yeah, it's evolved a lot because TV used to be what I would say people thought was number one, right? That's what they wanted to do, all they wanted to be, et cetera. And I would say nowadays that's definitely not the case. And one of the hardest things about TV, just to give you everyone kind of context here is you can't have any kind of call to action on TV, right? So.
Amanda (15:08)
Mm.
Christina (15:26)
you don't have the ability to say, here's where you can find out more. Here's where you can grab my book, you know, whatever, here's where you can grab this or that. That's not really how TV works to a certain extent. Whereas we do have that ability in podcasts and print, et cetera, to be able to really drive someone exactly where you want them to go.
Amanda (15:44)
Interesting. Speaking of evolving markets, I mean, just even in the last five years, how have you seen the podcast market shift since you started in 2020, specifically in terms of your approach to getting your clients guest spots?
Christina (15:59)
Okay, because I was going to say a huge shift that I've seen is the bringing in of advertising. Absolutely. That was one thing that five years ago didn't really exist on podcasts unless they were really, really big podcasts and it was very few brands, right? Like I think we all can remember, because I remember this so vividly when we all listened to serial the first time and then they had the MailChimp ads and like remember that became like a huge sensation like within that, but it was like kind of a big deal because there weren't even that many ads.
Amanda (16:24)
You
Christina (16:28)
It's really running on podcasts at that point. I think MailChimp got it for like an insane deal too, cause like cereal wasn't out yet. And so anyways, it just kind of became this whole interesting thing there. But when it comes to getting our clients booked and what that has looked like, I would definitely say there's things that have changed and there are things that haven't changed. The main thing that hasn't changed is people just want a good topic.
They just want you to be able to come on and talk about something that their listeners are genuinely interested in, right? Something that people are really gonna care about and want to listen in on. The thing that I would say has changed probably the most is just the amount of pitching that needs to be done. And what I mean by that is there are a lot more people trying to get these guest spots, right?
than five years ago, than four years ago, right? Et cetera. At that point, I'm not saying it was easy, don't get me wrong, but it definitely wasn't as competitive as it is today. That doesn't mean that we're not making it happen. It just means that, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it. It just means that there are a lot of people vying for a small amount of spots, you know? And so,
you gotta make sure that that pitch is up to a level where they're gonna pay attention.
Amanda (17:57)
Okay, we're going to get into that a lot more here in a few minutes, but yeah, that is a super important point that popularity has risen and therefore like market saturation and guest spots. But man, if you can get him in there with the right pitch, that is so valuable. mean, creators are the ones listening to this podcast. You'll know how hard it is to continuously, month over month, quarter over quarter and year over year produce amazing content. So bringing others in to bring their content as a value add to your audience is a wonderful way to go.
Christina (18:26)
Mm -hmm.
Amanda (18:28)
Well, okay, so let's kind of look at hosting a podcast versus working a guest circuit. So how should a creator think about, I should start my own or I should just be a guest or I could do both. What's the potential difference in impact to a creator's business, like their actual business case, driving revenue?
Christina (18:43)
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I love this question because a lot of times when people hear what I do, they're like, I've been thinking about starting a podcast. And I'm like, okay. And I wanna get into the difference between the two and kind of what the ultimate end goal is because that's what's gonna help you determine which way makes sense, you know, for you to go or is it both, like you said, which spoiler alert, I think both, but we're gonna get into this a little bit. So.
Amanda (19:13)
You
Christina (19:16)
How I like to break down marketing is that there are three specific pillars of marketing, owned, earned, and paid, okay? So paid is, shocker, the stuff that you pay for, right? So maybe that's social media ads, maybe that's an influencer campaign, something where money is exchanging hands, okay? And for a lot of people, that's a big part of their marketing, right? That's how they get leads into their business is they pay for ads. So.
Please don't think I'm saying that that's a bad thing. That's just a part of marketing for a lot of people. The other part is owned and owned are the channels that you have control over. Okay. So that's your social media. That's your e -newsletter. That's your website. That is your podcast. So Amanda, her podcast, This Level Up Creator's Podcast, that is an owned channel for her. She has control over what's going out over it. Okay. So if you were to have your own podcast, that's where that would sit as well.
And then the final pillar is earned. And that is the one that the most people look over. It is the thing that most people discount from their marketing. And that is where publicity comes into play. PR comes into play. And that is where you are leveraging other people's platforms to get in front of new audiences. Okay? So you are going onto another platform, you are providing value, and you are getting in front of someone else's audience. Okay?
So that is where earned comes into play. The reason why it's the most underused is because it's not a sure thing, right? And so that is really, really hard for a lot of people. A lot of people, particularly entrepreneurs, small business owners, and yo, I get it, I'm in the same boat. They wanna know what is this gonna look like on the back end? If I pay money for ads, I can tell exactly how much I spent and exactly how many people came, you know, X, Y, Z. When it's my channel,
I can see all these different things and I can know how that's converting, et cetera. And when it comes to publicity, it can be a bit more difficult to have that same type of tracking, that same type of knowledge when it comes to those things. That doesn't mean that stuff isn't happening. Don't get me wrong. It's just a matter of someone might hear you on a podcast and then they start following you and then they become a client six months down the road, right?
And so that can be hard for someone to realize, that was actually because of that podcast that they came on here, right? They don't quite know. So the thing that I like to ask when people kind of ask me, what should I be doing first is what is that ultimate goal? So if your ultimate goal is that you have people in your universe that you want to be nurturing more, then starting your own podcast is the best way to go about doing that, right?
because people are gonna get to know you better, they're gonna get to understand your world better, they're just gonna have a better idea of who you are and what your business does, right? But if your main goal is to get in front of new audiences, to get leads into your business, then you want to be guesting on other people's podcasts, okay? And by the way, if you have your own podcasts, driving people to your own podcast from guesting is a
great way to do it, a great way to nurture people further into your world, okay? So they can absolutely, I mean, I think it's the best when they can be used hand in hand with one another. Now, Amanda, I know you do both. So is that kind of your strategy or kind of how you look at that? Like I would love to hear your opinion too.
Amanda (22:47)
Yeah, definitely. So and I love we're talking, I love that we're talking about the trackability or lack thereof or the difficulty in tracking opportunities like this. And so I was actually just on a call right before this with a client talking about they have the number one marriage podcast in the world. And we were talking about how in the world and they've been on over 200 podcasts as a guest. so, but their tracking capabilities have been really lackluster, which is really frustrating. And so
That's where things like UTM codes come into play and getting to a really granular level of what the digital sphere allows us to track. And if you don't know what a UTM code is or how to use that, you need to be in level up creator school, first of all, because we have a template for that and we just hand it over to you. But so I want to encourage people to get to that next level of trackability because that is hard with the podcast. And also, this is where serving can come into play a lot as well.
Christina (23:42)
Mm
Amanda (23:43)
How did you find us? And if people remember, it's great, but you my podcast, someone else's podcast, et cetera, et And sometimes you can connect the dots, but it is hard. It is hard and that can be frustrating. So a podcast is something that we believe, I mean, you should make, if you start a podcast, you need to be committed for 12 to 18 months at least to give it time. And the best place to find...
Christina (24:02)
Yes. Yes.
Amanda (24:06)
podcast listeners in addition to your owned channels where your customer persona lives, your audience lives, and they already know, trust and like you, is to find them on other podcasts because they're already listening to podcasts, so they're more likely to listen to podcasts. So yeah, if we can connect with what we call ecosystem partners at Level Up Creators. And so these are, we encourage everyone to make a literal list of tangentially related non -competing businesses. So they're providing maybe a complimentary product or just something that
Christina (24:19)
Exactly.
Yeah.
Amanda (24:36)
your customer persona would also naturally buy. So same audience, not competing and trying to just knock those out and having a podcast yourself and you can go for that reciprocal invitation or if you record on one person's show, you can publish it on both shows. And so there's lots of kind of efficiency plays there and adjacencies and I love efficiency. so, yeah.
Christina (24:39)
Mm
that is one of the most undersung things about podcasts, guesting or having, mean, really having your own, but I think a lot of people sleep on it for guesting is like, yo, this is content. This is stuff that you can be chopping up. You can be putting into a blog post. You can be doing all these different things. And actually, I will tell you right now, if there are those of you listening that have been a guest on shows and you're like, yeah, I was a guest on that show. And, but it was a while ago. I didn't do anything. Do a blog post. Do a blog post about it.
link to the show. SEO is one of the biggest and best things we can get from podcast guesting. Okay. When we put a blog post up and we backlink to that show, we backlink to that host, we backlink to, you know, our own products and services, et cetera. That is huge. That is huge. So even if you've already been on some shows, throw it in chat, GPT, get a blog post, put it up on your website, so that you can start to get some of those benefits as well.
And that's just like a baseline thing. There's a lot of other content that can come out of you being a guest on podcasts, audio snippets, e -newsletter, you know, the list is endless, truly. But our clients that take advantage of that and use this more as a content creation avenue, they see even more ROI because people are going to be able to see that months down the road as well. You know what I mean? So.
Amanda (26:08)
Hmm?
Christina (26:25)
Do not sleep on all the content that can be created, the efficiencies that can be there from being a guest on podcasts as well. A lot of people seem to think, it's not my show, so I don't think I can do that. No, you absolutely can be doing that. And in fact, the host wants you to be doing that. You're gonna tag them in it. You're going to link back to them. I'm not saying like, hey, listen to me on my own podcast. You know what I mean? And then it's not yours. Like, no, we're going to make sure we're giving credit where credit is due, but.
Amanda (26:41)
Right, exactly.
Hmm.
Christina (26:52)
The reason, one of the reasons hosts love to have guests is they want that extra exposure to your audience. So they're not gonna be upset about you sharing it in more places.
Amanda (27:03)
Right, it's a mutually beneficial play to be made. I mean, like Christina, I was gonna tell you this after the recording, but we send a Google folder with a suite of clips of the podcast for you to use to disseminate to your audience. so our video first podcast is a major part of our content motion. We definitely use the transcript to help create, know, drafts of LinkedIn posts and Twitter X posts and...
Christina (27:07)
Exactly.
Love it.
Hmm?
Love that.
Amanda (27:32)
We use Opus .pro for clips. That pulls together a great transcript as does Riverside .fm, which is what we're recording on right now. All these tools and platforms now will generate show notes for you and timestamps. I mean, it's truly, truly amazing how efficient technology has made content creation, at least in this regard. So I'm glad we're kind of off on this tangent. That's really important.
Christina (27:47)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, there's a lot of things and one tool that I like to point out that I use is Headliner. And the reason why I love Headliner so much, just so you all know out there, and I'm not an affiliate for them, I'm not anything, we use them though in our business, is it can be hard to find places that will cut clips when you are simply the guest. Meaning you don't own the audio, you don't have the audio, you're not uploading the audio into something, right, et cetera. And so that is a great tool that is free.
up to a certain amount of clips that it creates. So again, if you've been a guest on a show before, find that episode, drop it into Headliner, set up a free account. It doesn't matter if it was six months ago, nine months ago, a year ago, as long as that content is still relevant, you know, if it's still something that you still feel, you know, is you strongly about and you agree with, right? Put it up there, spread it out there. This isn't a limited time thing. In fact, I don't know about you, Amanda, but I binge podcasts.
all the time. So meaning I find a podcast I like and then I'm like, well, now I'm going to go three years back, you know, and I just start listening to a bunch of different shows. People do that all the time. Okay. So that's one of the beautiful things about podcasts. And I actually had a client recently say to me, she was a past client and we worked with her maybe two years ago and she was like, Christina, I still get leads off the podcast that I did with you, that I, that I did with you guys all the time, right into my business.
And so I want you to know that like she's not even doing podcasts now, you know, anymore, like, but people are just hearing her on those ones from, you know, a couple of years ago and they're still resonating with what she has to say and going and becoming, you know, leads.
Amanda (29:35)
It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Christina (29:37)
It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. Yes.
Amanda (29:39)
It is. mean, like blog posts, Pinterest, podcasts, major, yeah, evergreen assets. So I would encourage everyone, you know, if you you have something to say, obviously honing your message is very important. We're going to talk about here in just a second. But those are really, really good tactical tips. Thank you for sharing that headliner tool as well. That's a great idea. So let's go back to how guest podcasting can be.
Christina (29:55)
Mm -hmm.
Amanda (30:09)
used like things that are said things that are dropped in the show notes or show description on YouTube, whatever it is. How can you most effectively or give yourself the best odds of success and actually driving leads when you're a guest on someone else's show?
Christina (30:24)
This is a great, great question because I hear from people a lot, and there's a couple different things to this, but I hear from people a lot like, well, I was a guest on a couple of podcasts and it didn't really do anything, right? And I kind of have a couple of questions around that. One is, was it the right audience? Because a lot of the time it wasn't. People were just asked to be on a show and that's fine, by the way. Like your friend asks you to be on a show, like go be on their show, right? But if it's not the right audience, don't expect it to be doing anything for you.
The other thing is the amount of shows people have, I was like, okay, so what do mean by you were on a couple of shows? And they're like, well, I was on like two last year. And I'm like, okay, well, we need to be on a lot more than that in order to be seen like the sustained, you know, kind of leads and stuff like that, that you're hoping to be seen, right? So those are just a couple of things right off the bat that I'll say with that. But the other couple of things that I would say is make sure you are throughout the time that you are a guest,
make sure that you're kind of talking about what it is that you offer, right? So what I mean by that is like, when I'm a guest here on this show, like I wanna be saying a couple of times, like, well, when we're working with our clients and pitching them on podcasts, right? When we're doing this work with our clients privately, I'm making it very clear of like what it is that my agency, that my company does, okay? And so I think that that's a really important thing is kind of making it very obvious to folks of like, that's what this person does.
The other thing when we get to the end is I'm gonna have a very clear call to action, okay? So I am going to have a place where I'm going to drive anybody who's interested in learning more about what it is that I do at the end of this episode. And the thing that I really, really recommend for that, there's a couple things, but when it comes to call to action, have one page that you drive these all to, okay?
And the reason that I say that is sometimes people get really hung up and like, I have to have a different page for each one I'm on and da da da da da da. And a lot of times it just becomes a bigger hassle. You can't remember the name of the website for that particular one. You have it in their show notes. Like it just ends up being a huge issue, right? At that point. So what I really recommend is having one website that you are driving people to that has perhaps a free gift, maybe two.
an opportunity for someone to book a discovery call, whatever it is your direct call to actions are, okay? But always have a way that people can like essentially work with you right away. So a discovery call or an application in addition to a free gift. I see that a lot with our clients. They find, or at least maybe it's easier for them to track when someone basically hears them on a show and then applies.
or hears them on a show and then books a discovery call, right? Like I talked about, it's great to have someone sign up for a gift and to nurture them. You wanna have that on there, but it seems like for most people, or at least for our clients, that's what really happens is people hear them and they're like, my gosh, I need to figure out how to work with them. And then they go right away to like booking something, buying something, right? Et cetera. So I'm making sure you have that on that page there. Have your socials on that page. There are some people that they just don't wanna sign up for your e -newsletter, right? They're just, they're not doing it.
They're like, I'm already in too many newsletters. I don't wanna do it, whatever, but I am interested in finding out more about them. So I'm gonna go follow them on LinkedIn. I'm gonna go follow them on Instagram. This is when we're talking about how it's hard to track, right? Because this type of thing happens all the time. Someone hears me on a show, they go and follow me on Instagram, but I don't necessarily know that, right? And then they become a client down the road. You know what I mean? So those are kind of some of the ways that...
or kind of one thing that I really think helps with conversions is to have that clear call to action, have one page that you're driving people to. You can always change out what's on that page, by the way. It's just that how I talked about how I'll go back two years and listen to a podcast, we don't want that link to be broken. We don't want that link to not be available. And suddenly someone can't find you. Because who really is going to go and Google, especially like I have a last name that's very hard.
Amanda (34:24)
Right. Mm -hmm.
Christina (34:32)
Right? Like people would be like, what was it? I can't spell that. You know what I mean? So we want to try and keep it as simple as possible for people to find us. So I would say having that clear call to action, making it clear what we do when we're a guest on podcasts are two really great ways to get the most out of podcast interviews.
Amanda (34:50)
Awesome. That's great. I love the idea of a single landing page. And if you are at the level in your business, the level of maturity in your business where you do need a more granular look at where that traffic is coming from, you need GA for Google Analytics for set up on your website, all your landing pages. And there's a lot of amazing landing page builder tools that have ridiculously good analytics. using UTM codes again, and that's a
Christina (34:53)
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Amanda (35:15)
Those are those super extra long URLs when you click a link inside of an email or click on an ad. Those marketers that are serving those up need to know exactly how you arrived on the page that they're sending a bunch of people from a bunch of different places to. So there is a way to get to that granular level of tracking. And it's not it's actually a very simple process. It's just a matter of having a UTM code builder like we have in creator school, which is like
Christina (35:45)
There you go. Yeah.
Amanda (35:45)
level. Yeah, it's just leveling up like our members ability to everything. It's giving us so much more information. So yeah, I love I love that concept. And you're absolutely right about broken links with podcasts being an evergreen asset. You want those calls to action to be the same.
Christina (35:51)
Really.
Yes, exactly. You want something. And that's why I'm like, don't get caught up on like, if you have to change it down the road, you're like, hey, I have a new freebie or I actually don't want to drive people to this discovery call when I drive this. It's all good. Just change it out. Just change it out. Like it's just a matter of something is there so that when people click on that link in the show notes or they listen to the episode, they have a place where they can go and they're still going to be able to find out more about you and connect.
Amanda (36:25)
That's right. And if that link is on, you know, 25 or 50 different other people's podcast descriptions or show notes, you can do link forwarding also. If you really have to change it to something else, just forward the URL to point it to the new one.
Christina (36:36)
Yep, that's a great point. Love that.
Amanda (36:39)
All right, so let's get into the most important piece of this. What are some of the most effective strategies for landing guest spots on podcasts? How do you do this?
Christina (36:50)
You guys, I'll tell you, number one, research, research, research. And I don't mean that you have to be spending hours looking at a podcast before you send out a pitch or anything like that. You gotta listen to 10 episodes minimum, nothing like that, okay? But you do have to take a look at the show, all right? And the reason that I say this is, and I guarantee to you, Amanda can back me up on this, but there are a lot of people out there, there are agencies that do podcast pitching, right?
and they go for a more, and I say this because I run an agency that does podcast pitching, okay? We just do it in a very different way. But there are a lot of agencies out there and a lot of people out there that go with a, what we call the spray and pray method, okay? Which is like, I am just gonna send a ton of pitches, none of them are gonna be personalized and just hope that I hear back from a couple of these hosts, okay? And...
That is not how I want any of you to be handling pitching. And by the way, the host knows, Amanda, back me up here. You know when you get a pitch like that, you know that someone is not paying attention. Yep. And it's an immediate delete. You know what I mean? It is a nope, nope, nope. And this is a big thing I hear from hosts, right? And so that is one of the biggest things that I can tell you is like, look at the show.
Amanda (37:58)
I sure do. I get them all the time. Yep.
Christina (38:16)
Right? Take a look at it. Listen to a little bit. Again, even if it's 15 minutes, get a general vibe of what the show is. I really like to listen to the intro of a show because I like to hear the verbiage that the host uses, how they describe what they talk about, how they describe their audience. I like to look at the past shows that they've had, like even the titles to get an idea of like, okay, this is generally what they like to talk about. You know, I was doing that. I was listening to one of Amanda's shows this morning.
And I was looking at the titles of her shows, right? And so I think that it's very important to be able to mirror in a certain way, like, okay, this is how they really like to kind of title, this is what they really like to talk about. So when we go to pitch, are mirroring, there we go, you know, in the way that we want to, in the way that that host is gonna really respond to. And these are very subtle ways to show the host, I'm paying attention, right? I didn't just randomly.
Pitch you like I have looked at your stuff. I think that I could bring a lot of value to your audience by the way That's another hot tip. You are not going on the show to talk about you Okay, you are not going on the show to talk about you how great you are how wonderful you are You are going on to bring value you are going on to drop knowledge on their audience So when you pitch you are pitching with that in mind, I'm going to pitch these topics I'm gonna pitch these story ideas. I am not going to pitch myself
Amanda (39:22)
Yes!
Christina (39:43)
Right? I mean, of course they want some, you know, I'm not saying you don't give a couple of sentences on your expertise. They know, you know what you're talking about, but I just mean when it comes to like what you're pitching, it's not about you. It is about what those topics are that that audience is going to really resonate with. And I think those right there, like I'll tell you right now for me and my team, that's what gets us bookings on some of the best shows that are out there in the podcast universe is.
Amanda (39:49)
Yeah, proof points.
Yeah.
Christina (40:09)
It's not the big connections. It's not the like, I know someone that knows someone. No, I mean, it is way more of like, I'm pitching from my little office in Boise, Idaho and able to get on these shows because we are doing the necessary research in order to let a host know like, hey, we get your audience and here's what value we think we could bring for them.
Amanda (40:32)
Yes, a little bit of just, I'm paying attention. I see you, I hear you, I understand you, I get your audience. I know what they need. I've got the social proof points. I've been on these other podcasts before. These are my credentials. That is so, so powerful. That is really wonderful advice. mean, are there, is there like a top five things to make sure you include in your pitch email or is there a?
Christina (40:44)
Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can name my five any day all day, but I'll start with number one, which is include the host name, y 'all. Include their name. I know that seems ridiculous, but there are so many pitches that go out that are like, hey, host, hey, level up creators team, you know, whatever. And it's like, just put the host name in there. Like it literally tells you in Apple podcasts or Spotify, the name of the, like,
Amanda (41:05)
Yeah.
Christina (41:26)
Again, take that extra second and like look at that and also make sure it's spelled correctly. That's another thing, right? Like make sure that host, the host is spelled correctly. So that's certainly something that I would say is important. Another thing is just some kind of personal connection. So, you know, that's what we always have in our first paragraph or our first couple sentences is like, for us, we're like, hey, I was listening to your episode on this and I really loved what you said about XYZ, right? It really resonated with me for this reason.
You know what I mean? And we're genuine in that. Something that we really did like out of an episode that we put in there. And again, your show, and it's not just the last episode. I think this is a key point to make, okay? A host knows when you're just like, hey, I really loved your latest episode on, and then you just put the title of the last episode that was there, okay? No. We are going to an episode that we actually are interested in. We're gonna listen to a little bit of it, and we're gonna pull something out of that. Again.
the host realizes that you actually paid attention to what it was that they're doing, okay? Then we're gonna drop a couple of credibility markers, just like we both talked about, why is this person qualified? What shows have they been on before so they know that they actually know how to talk in front of a mic, stuff like that. And then like I mentioned, you're gonna have two to three really solid topic ideas. So two to three things that you really believe that audience would benefit from hearing you on.
And by the way, if you've, you there are people that do podcast pitching like I do, that would never stop me from pitching myself on a show. And what I mean by that is sometimes people hear like, they've already had a such and such expert on, that's fine. You just need to go on and talk about something else, okay? And so I think that's a really important, like important thing for y 'all to hear is like,
You can even say that. I've done that in pitches before. Hey, I heard your episode was so -and -so. I really love how you guys talked about the importance of podcast casting. What I'd love to do is come on and talk with your audience about how to leverage it, right? Or et cetera. You just kind of take it to the next level, right? And that's a really great way that we've gotten a lot of bookings for clients. What we like to send out, these are not must haves, but if you have a one sheet, if you have an audio snippet, if you have those things, drop them in the pitch.
but do not get stuck on creating them before you feel like you can send a pitch. Okay? Again, I've gotten our clients booked on some of the bigger shows that are out there with no one sheet, no audio snippet, no whatever. It is all about the quality of the pitch. Okay? So I just hear a lot of people that are like, well, I need to get my one sheet together. I'm like, no, you don't. Like you just need to think about some topics and hit send quite frankly, cause that's what's going to get you the bookings.
Amanda (44:10)
Take action. Yes.
Christina (44:12)
Take action. And then finally, the last thing that we do that I really love to do is we always include a PS and we try to have something that's very not specific to the pitch, but specific to the host. And what I mean by that is we go on their socials and we take a look at maybe their stories and maybe some of their latest pitch or their latest posts, excuse me. And we like to put something in there. And I'm talking about like something that's just very random. Like I'll be like, what was I, this was a little while ago, but I was pitching and the host had a,
a poll up on their stories of like, you pronounce it GIF or JIF? And so I had like voted in the thing, but then in my PS, I was like, PS, I'm absolutely team GIF, you know, or whatever like in it. And I was like, these people are crazy. You know what I mean? But it's just like a little thing like that, just one line. And again, and I cannot tell you how many times we get responses from the hosts where they mentioned the PS thing, whatever the PS thing was, like first.
Amanda (44:54)
Yeah, nice.
Yes.
Christina (45:09)
Right? Like that's like different, like they're like, my gosh, yes. And then like go into their response, you know? And so again, it's just those subtle cues of like, I'm paying attention.
Amanda (45:09)
Nice.
I like that. I like that so much. It's just be a human. And this is how you be a human in this very specific way, right, for this business case, but.
Christina (45:25)
Be a human. Yes. Yep.
Amanda (45:31)
That was really valuable. Thank you so much. Next, would you talk us through the most common misconceptions about podcast guesting that might at times discourage people from pitching themselves?
Christina (45:34)
Mm -hmm.
Yes, I think there's a couple of things. One is you're gonna hear no, and you're gonna get ghosted, okay? So I just wanna throw that out there. It's gonna happen. We get no, we get very lovely nos. We get people that are like, this was a great pitch, but no, you know? And that's okay, all right? We also get ghosted. You know what I mean? Like these things happen, and this is what we do full time. This is our job. You know what I mean? And we get nos, we get ghosted, right, et cetera.
So be prepared that it's going to happen and just be okay with it, okay? You know it's going to happen, but you know what else is gonna happen? If you're pitching in the way that I'm talking about, you're gonna get yeses too. And you're gonna get people that are gonna have you on their show. And so I just want you to let that go of like, if I don't get a yes or if I get ghosted, like this was a disaster. You know what I mean? Or like, what are people thinking of me? And it's like, honestly, they're not. You know what I mean? Like if you send a solid pitch,
Amanda (46:34)
Yes.
Right.
Christina (46:41)
And even if it's not a good fit for them, that doesn't mean that they think you're not worthy of being on their show, right? It's just a matter of maybe they don't have the space. Maybe they recently had someone on, it just hasn't aired yet that talked about the same thing, right? There's all these different reasons that we don't necessarily know that we might hear a no, okay? So I just want you to get out of your head and out, you know, out about like it having to be perfection and it having to be that you send 20 pitches and all 20 become yeses like.
Amanda (46:48)
you
Yes.
Christina (47:10)
I'm just gonna tell you right now that ain't gonna happen, okay? So just be prepared in that way. The other thing that I would say that kinda stops people is they get really worried about the size of a show. They get real worried about this and real up in their head about it. Meaning, and this might be the opposite of what you're thinking, but they only wanna be on what they consider big shows. That everything else is a waste of their time.
Okay, this is a huge red flag for me when I have on a discovery call with somebody. But they'll be like, I don't know, just, maybe like you could get me on like Joe Rogan. And I'm just like.
That's not like what I'm necessarily here doing. Yeah, like I'm like, what? No, I don't think so. But what I think is important about this is to understand that like our clients, many of their leads and their money comes from them being on smaller, niched shows full of their ideal audiences. We've gotten our clients booked on big shows and I'm not saying that there isn't value in that.
Amanda (47:51)
And are you an A -list celebrity also?
Niche.
Christina (48:17)
But to be honest, when it comes to making money, they make more money on the smaller, more niche shows, okay? So I think it's very, very important. It's not to say there's not value in being, you know, the visibility factor that comes on being a big show, that's great. But do not get hung up on thinking that unless it's some big show, it's not worth your time. If it is your ideal audience, it is absolutely worth your time. And I want you to put it in this perspective.
If someone were to ask me, know, if someone were to say to me, hey, Christina, we got a hundred of your ideal customers that are gonna be at this event. Do you wanna come and speak to them? You better believe I'd be booking that flight, booking that hotel room. I would be in that room, okay? So why do we get so hung up on maybe a smaller podcast full of our ideal audience not being worthy of our time?
When by the way, all you gotta do is slap on a pair of headphones. You don't have to travel across the country. You don't have to be doing X, Y, Z. You are literally in their ears telling them something, right? So I think that there's just a big mindset shift that a lot of people need to have of like, well, if it's not this certain size, it's not worth my time. No, is it the right audience for you? And if it's the right audience for you, it is always gonna be, even if it's two people that listen to it, it is gonna be worth your time.
Amanda (49:20)
Mm
those are good. Those are so good. And then I love sales, first of all. It's like every no gets you closer to a yes, right? And just knowing that you can't take that personally, it is going to happen. And I love what you're saying about finding niche podcasts because those are your people, right? And they're gonna know better than a much broader audience if you know your stuff, if you're worth your salt. And that is what drives business. If you have unique take, contrarian take, think about how we write hooks on social media and...
Christina (49:44)
Mm -hmm.
Exactly.
Amanda (50:06)
Clearly you know your stuff and you are the go -to expert in your industry. Holy moly, that is so powerful. It is so, so, powerful. I did a super, I hosted a niche podcast. This is a little bit different, but I hosted a really niche podcast in 2020 and had an email newsletter. And I just had a few hundred subscribers to the email newsletter, grew over time on LinkedIn. And I'm sure the podcast now has
Christina (50:16)
Good, I'm glad.
Amanda (50:35)
know, tens of thousands of downloads, but at the time in 2020 that generated seven figures of consulting business for me in 2020.
Christina (50:43)
Y 'all, did you just hear that y 'all? Seven figures from a niche podcast and an e -newsletter.
Amanda (50:50)
19 episode series. That was a pretty good marketing play for me.
Christina (50:53)
That is amazing. Yeah, I would say so.
The ROI there was very high. It was very, very high. Yeah. On all that. Yes. That's amazing. That's amazing. So just think about that. Think about Amanda when you think about that example, right? Of like, okay, I just need to get in front of the right people and as long as they're the right people, and even if that's a small audience, like it's going to make it worthwhile. And one thing you touched on that I want to point out earlier is like, a lot of times these niche audiences too become great partners for you.
Amanda (51:04)
as extraordinary, yeah.
Mm -hmm. Yeah, so it's very powerful.
Christina (51:30)
And this is one of the most overlooked things in podcasts, in my opinion, is the host relationship, okay? And a lot of people get on podcasts and they kind of think the only reason they're getting on podcasts is because it's gonna go out and they're obviously gonna get an influx of leads. And of course we want that to happen. And of course we hope that that's the goal. But besides content creation also being a main thing, another huge main thing that you can't overlook is your relationship with the host. You guys just had an in -depth.
Amanda (51:35)
Mm -hmm.
Christina (51:58)
conversation, a real conversation. So you are now at a different level, you know, that know, like and trust has really been, you know, kind of fused between the two of you. And so one thing that that will happen, and this is what will happen at the end of this, I'll tell you right now, Amanda, get ready, because I'm going to do it is we're going to hit end on record. And then of course, I'm going to thank Amanda, because y 'all having a podcast is a ton of work. And so I always want to profusely thank every host that has me on or any of our guests on because
They are the ones that are doing all the work on the back end to get that ready to go, okay? So truthfully, giving a big thanks there, but then secondarily, what I'm gonna say, and these are the magic words, y 'all, is now how can I provide value for you? Okay? And that can mean a lot of things, but I come with ideas, right? I come with thoughts on that. Hey, do want me to come speak in your membership? Do you wanna do an Instagram Live when this airs so that we can get in front of each other's audiences?
There's all, do you want to become an affiliate partner? There's all these different ways that you can be continuing that relationship with hosts. And for a lot of our clients at the end of our time working together, they will repeatedly say to me, that was one of my biggest surprises. Cause I train them so hard on this, is to not overlook that relationship with the host. And the things that have come out of that.
the partnerships, the invitations to speak at masterminds, the book deals, the et cetera that have come from simply asking that question at the end of an interview is amazing. So don't sleep on it.
Amanda (53:26)
Thank
I love that. are huge to -dos. You know, have a little podcast guest checklist. I like that a lot. You're absolutely right. And then I love leading with an offer to give something, not an ask, right? So you're leading with an offer. I love that. Doing your research and having ideas coming to the table. what a nugget. It a golden nugget.
Christina (53:39)
Mm -hmm.
Mm hmm. Yep.
And if you have your own podcast, that's a great place to throw that to them, right? Like if you hit it off with them and be like, hey, I have my podcast, I would love to have you on as a guest on my podcast, right? That's a really easy thing that's gonna give them value as well.
Amanda (54:06)
No, we are running short on time here, but I do have a couple quick questions. So we'll get like a rapid fire answer. So what are the advantages of having you or someone like you book podcast guest spots rather than the business owner or one of their team members doing it? And then what's it like to work with you?
Christina (54:14)
Okay, perfect.
Absolutely. So the biggest thing is the time saved. You you heard me talking about research each pitch, right? Tailor it to the person that you're sending to, et cetera. That is just things that most people don't have time for. Most business owners, more small business owners, it is very hard for them to find the time to do that. So we are completely taking that off their plates. We handle the scheduling, we handle all the booking, the pitching, et cetera. A lot of times we do have connections that a team member is not going to have.
We've worked with over 800 shows at this point. So, and that number is just going up month after month after month. As we get new relationships, we continue pitching, et cetera. So, a lot of times we're able to do that work more efficiently and get our clients on, after I just did this whole thing, but bigger, more established shows because we've worked with that audience potentially before, worked with that host before in a lot of those ways. A big reason why, I'm just gonna tell an example of
Amanda (54:56)
Right.
Christina (55:25)
Quick example, I promise, of one of our clients who has hired us for multiple years because she had a team member that she tried to have do this. She actually had a couple of team members she tried to have do this work. And it just wasn't their priority and it wasn't their area of expertise. And so she was like, I'm just done. I just wanna have the experts handle it. You guys do it. I just show up for the interview. I do my thing and it's a great lead generation tool for her.
Amanda (55:26)
You
Christina (55:52)
One thing I always like to say to people though, like if you have a marketing team member, I love that. Like to work in coordination with us, with a marketing team member is wonderful because then I know that they are going to be able to create all those evergreen content, right? Create all those clips, be putting them out on your socials, be using it in that way. So I'm a big, big fan when someone has that on their team and then they use us as an outside contractor to just simply be the expert at getting them the bookings so that they just have to show up.
Amanda (56:22)
Yeah, that's huge. And then what's it like to work with you? How does your process work?
Christina (56:28)
Yeah, so when we work with our clients, have a couple different ways. have a, main offer is a 12 month offer where we get our clients booked on a guaranteed number of shows. So we are very, very unique in this, in the PR world. But from day one, I have always had a guarantee in the amount of bookings that we will get our clients on. And a huge reason for that is I'm a small business owner myself, right? I wanna know what this is gonna look like on the backend of me hiring you, right?
And so from day one, while the guarantee has changed, that has always stayed the same as to what we are going to do for our clients. So we have our 12 month offer. We also have a lesser offer. You have me, we have a whole team of publicists, and essentially we just make it really, really easy for you to be showing up in front of the audiences that you wanna show up in front of.
Amanda (57:20)
Nice. Okay, I'm gonna ask a funny question and then we're gonna wrap up here. Give me the maybe top three, four or five things to never do when you are a guest on someone else's show.
Christina (57:25)
Yes! I love it.
not listen to an episode of the podcast beforehand. That is a huge, huge one. I recommend listening to an episode at least, I mean, hopefully you listen to a bit of it when you pitched, but when it comes time to actually being on the show, I always say listen to an episode within 48 hours of guesting. So like this morning, I listened to two of Amanda's episodes, and it's not because I hadn't listened to the show before, but it gets me in the vibe and in the mindset of like, okay, this is what it's gonna be like, right? This is what kind of, we're gonna generally, the pace is gonna be.
Amanda (58:05)
Totally.
Christina (58:05)
So I definitely recommend that because trust me the host knows y 'all if you show up and you don't know what you're talking about and what they're talking about and etc Trust me. It's a it's a whole thing. The other thing that I would say when it comes to guessing is do not not share the episode I know that's kind of a double negative there But what I mean by that is Amanda was just talking about how she's gonna share this wonderful Google folder full of items for me You better believe that I'm gonna share those. Okay
Amanda (58:12)
You
Christina (58:31)
There are, and I know you've run into this, I have no doubt of guests that just do not ever share the episode, right? They come on your show, you have them on, and then they just don't share it. And that is extremely, extremely frustrating for hosts because this is a huge reason why they have you on is to also broaden their reach as well, okay? So that's a big thing is I want you to not sleep on like actually sharing the episode, whether that's in your e -newsletter, whether that's on social, whatever makes the most sense.
for you, right, in that way, but making sure that it's on there. So I would say those are two definitely big things. And then like I mentioned, just seeing the host as a means to an end, right? So just seeing the host as the person who makes it so you get in front of their audience and not realizing that that's an amazing opportunity for partnership and collaboration.
Amanda (59:21)
Yes, relational instead of transactional.
Christina (59:24)
Yes. Yep.
Amanda (59:26)
Awesome. That's a great list. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Christina. This was absolute wealth of knowledge. I hope everybody listening was taking careful notes because my goodness, so many actionable nuggets and tidbits. So thank you so much.
Christina (59:39)
Yay. I'm glad to hear it. I'm so glad to hear it. There are so many people that are in your universe, creators, where they have such cool stuff to talk about, right? And such cool stuff that they're doing and cool stuff that people can learn from them. And this is such a just like natural way to get in front of the people that want to hear that. One last thing I want to say, sorry, is I know that there are people listening right now that are like, I'm an introvert. There is no way.
Amanda (1:00:01)
Yeah.
Christina (1:00:07)
like I'm gonna do this, know, whatever. And I am here to tell, yes, I'm an extrovert, you could probably tell, but I am here to tell you that most of our clients are introverts and they do so, so well on podcasts because it's just a one -on -one conversation, right? There are a lot of people that are gonna listen to this, but when it comes to us recording, it's just me and Amanda, right? We're just in a room, I can see her face, like I can see everything like that. We're just having a conversation.
Amanda (1:00:12)
You
Yes, that's right.
Mm
Christina (1:00:34)
And so if you were having that moment in your head, really like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, this all sounds great. I'm never doing that. I want you to just know that you absolutely can succeed at this and that even if you consider yourself an introvert, shy, et cetera, like I said, those are some of our best clients and they really, really thrive in this type of an environment.
Amanda (1:00:55)
That's a really good point. And where can listeners find you online or what are we going to drop in the show notes for everybody to click on?
Christina (1:01:01)
we are gonna drop a non -broken link, because man, how embarrassed would I be. And it is at publicitypodcast .com. And you guys, I have an awesome six part free private podcast that talks all about our framework of how to get booked on shows. So would absolutely love to have you all download that, listen in. You can always find me on Instagram at publicityxcristina.
Amanda (1:01:18)
Nice.
Christina (1:01:27)
And that's Christina with a CH. Would love to hear from you. Shoot me a DM that you heard me on this show. I wanna celebrate you guys. I wanna celebrate you getting on podcasts, getting out there. The world truly does need to hear your voice.
Amanda (1:01:41)
Amazing. That was a good exclamation point to end on. Thank you so much, Christina. And yeah, absolutely. And thank you, listeners. We know that time is precious. Thank you for sharing yours with us. We help creators like you at levelupcreatorschool .com, where our team becomes your full stack team of advisors and also includes no fluff creator courses, a vibrant global creator community, and more, all on a subscription basis.
Christina (1:01:46)
Mm -hmm. Thank you. Thank you for having me on.
Amanda (1:02:07)
See the show notes for more information, any suite of high value resources, and we'll see you next time on the Level Up Creators Podcast. Thanks.