Dead in a Coffin, Clone Avril, Phantom Kangaroos & the Dumbest Criminals Alive

Show Notes

What happens when a woman wakes up in her coffin minutes before cremation… and it somehow isn’t the strangest thing in the episode?

Welcome back to Shadow Chat Sessions, where weird news, internet madness, paranormal history, and absolute criminal incompetence collide.

In this episode, we cover:

📰 Strange Headline
A Thai woman declared dead starts knocking from inside her coffin moments before her cremation—live-stream scheduled and all.

🧠 Conspiracy Corner
The infamous Avril Lavigne replacement theory—did the pop-punk icon die in 2003 and get swapped out for a lookalike named Melissa, or is the internet just deeply bored?

🕳️ Reddit Rabbit Hole
r/HorseMask—because apparently the internet decided realistic horse masks were comedy gold, and then refused to stop.

🚔 Dipshit Diaries
• A man steals a semi truck loaded with Corvettes “just to get home” after prison
• A shooting suspect hides inside a clothes dryer
• And our favorite: a Florida man accidentally records his murder plan by butt-dialing 911—after a Waffle House argument, no less

👻 Weird Shit
• Phantom kangaroos spotted across the U.S., Europe, and Japan
• A faceless figure caught on camera at Chester Castle in the UK
• A massive fireball hovering over a Russian lake in 1663, burning fishermen and lighting the water to the bottom
• Émilie Sagée, the 19th-century teacher repeatedly seen in two places at once
• And the Jim Twins, whose eerily identical lives challenge everything we think we know about free will

No politics. No yelling. Just strange history, internet nonsense, paranormal cases, and criminals making it very easy to be caught.

If you like your true crime funny, your mysteries unsettling, and your headlines unhinged—this one’s for you.

 

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• Dark Dialogue Collective – volunteer, boots-on-the-ground advocacy
  • Adopt-A-Victim Program – www.darkdialogue.com
  • Victim blog posts & case write-ups – www.darkdialogue.com

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Contact: [e-mail]

Explore the Dark Dialogue Network:
• Rocky Mountain Reckoning
• Dark Dialogue: Distilled
• Dark Dialogue: Unraveled Truths
• Dark Dialogue: Gallows & Gunfights
• Dark Dialogue: Main Show

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What is Dark Dialogue: Shadow Chat Sessions?

Shadow Chat Sessions is the off-the-record side of the Dark Dialogue network—where weird headlines, conspiracies, paranormal stories, and truly ridiculous criminals collide.

Hosted by John and Angela, each episode dives into strange news, internet rabbit holes, cryptids, hauntings, and the kind of criminal behavior that makes no sense at all—delivered with sarcastic commentary and zero restraint.

From bizarre real-world stories to eerie legends and unexplained mysteries, Shadow Chat Sessions explores the corners of the world that are too strange to ignore.

If you’re here for dark humor, absurdity, and the occasional conspiracy spiral, this is where things go off the rails.

John: Howdy.

Angela: I was gonna say, do
you have a new hello this time?

John: Yeah.

I, I couldn't come up with
nothing, so I say like, howdy.

Hi, howdy, su supporter.

Angela: Ni, how,

John: welcome to another episode of
Dark Dialogue Shadow Chat Sessions.

Did

John: you that?

No, I, what is

Angela: they're slow in Chinese ni How,

John: how the hell would I catch that?

I wouldn't, I wouldn't know that,

Angela: but I was speaking
a different language.

You didn't even blink.

That's how weird I am.

He doesn't even blink.

John: Well, you make all kinds of weird
noises and sounds and stuff over there.

I, I never, I wouldn't know it was
foreign languages or you stubbed your

toe or what the hell is going on?

Angela: What is happening with her?

John: So anyway, how's things going?

Angela: They're, they're okay.

How are you?

John: I'm good.

It's,

Angela: or in Chinese?

John: I, I don't know.

I don't know nothing about
that, but it's weird.

I mean, here we are.

Um, what is it like the end of
January and it's like freaking

t-shirt weather in Wyoming.

Angela: Don't scare it away.

John: No, I want to scare it away.

You know how freaking dry
this summer's gonna be?

Angela: Screw it's, I'm hearing the
mountains are getting a lot though.

John: I hope they're
getting a hell of a lot.

'cause this is crazy.

Yeah, I don't like the cold,
but we need some snow, so,

Angela: no, I don the road.

Just, just figure out how it,
it cannot accumulate on the road

and I'll be very happy girl.

John: Yeah, so when I was, I was living in
Colorado and I worked as an electrician.

I ran business and stuff down there
and I was called up to this house

one time up on the mountains and
there's a lot of very wealthy people

that live up out of Boulder and.

So this guy had like a two and a half
mile long driveway and it was heated.

Angela: Ooh.

John: Yeah.

It was slick as crap getting up
the mountain and everything dirty.

And I was thinking, now the hell I gonna
get down this guy's freaking driveway.

There were seven, it was like two foot of
snow and you know, the highway had been

plowed, but I was thinking, how, how am
I even gonna get to this guy's house?

And I pull in there and it
was freaking not any snow.

And I totally, I was like, how in
the hell even when you plow road?

Angela: Yeah.

John: And so when I get there,
I was like, how in the hell?

And he is like, oh yeah, it's heated.

He had like, I don't remember
how many massive boilers to heat.

Two and a half miles worth of driveway.

I can't even,

Angela: do you need a niece?

'cause I'm accepting
applications for uncles.

John: Yeah, he was, he was
a trip and he was, yeah.

Wow.

Angela: Yeah, I, I wonder constantly
how I'm gonna get up and down the

driveway, but that's just because it's.

John: Wyoming and you're not, it's
Wyoming freaking unbelievably wealthy.

This is the same guy who was, and he, I
was like, I think this guy's full of crap.

I think he's lying to me.

'cause he was always telling me about
how he's meeting with the Denver

Broncos and all this kinda stuff.

And I'm like, he, okay.

And then I was working at his house
and I, all these vehicles pull in

the drive and I turned around and
John Elway walking into his house and

I was like, uh, guess he was okay.

You're lying to me anymore.

Yeah.

'cause it was like inventing this thing
that, I don't know, something with water.

And, uh, some of you, uh, it was like
he, he, he'd like water the fields and

then it could create like this power
water that the athletes could drink.

And I don't freaking know.

I thought the guy was a whack job.

Then John Elway showed
up and I was like, okay,

Angela: alright then

John: apparently you shouldn't
judge a book by its cover.

This is true.

I mean the, it was like a 12,000 square
foot house, so it obviously had money,

but

Angela: with a heated driveway.

John: Well, this was a different house.

Oh, he actually sold that house and then
hired me to rewire this other house and,

but yeah, it was, it was very interesting.

It was an interesting time.

So, but with that, you ready to
jump, dive sl Roll Crawl into

this episode of Dark Dialogue.

Angela: Let's do it.

John: Alright, perfect.

Well, before we get started, just wanna
remind the listeners, if you like what

we do and how we do it, please give us a,
like, give us a follow, give us, leave us

a review, share the episode, hit the bell,
do all the things that really help us.

Angela: All the things.

John: All the things.

So with that, you ready for
the strange headline segment?

Of

Angela: course.

John: Is, this is quite the
strange headline segment now.

Dead tie woman sit to the
crematorium, wakes up in a coffin.

Angela: Oh, that poor person.

John: Yeah.

So a 65-year-old woman,

Angela: actually, poor
everyone involved because, wow.

John: Yeah.

A 65-year-old woman in Thailand
believed dead after appearing to stop

breathing was transported any coffin
to a Buddhist temple near Bangkok for

cremation moments before the cremation
was set to begin, temple staff heard

knocking from inside the coffin.

They opened it and found the woman
alive, eyes opening, tapping the inside,

triggering the emergency response
in a swift trip to the hospital.

So the details are Tuesday,
November 25th, 2025, not 1825.

Oh my goodness.

The woman had been
presumed dead for two days.

Her family convinced that they were
transporting her body, traveled

hundreds of miles with her.

Any coffin to wa it's either wa, wa,

wa rack.

I'm doing my best here.

You, I know you're,
this one speaks Chinese.

You should be reading this shit.

Angela: This is Thai.

This is different.

John: Wa rat crack.

Hong th or wat rat prac.

Hong thump.

W-A-T-R-A-T wa Rat or wat Rat.

Pong, PRA con, PRA, Kong
P-R-A-K-H-O-N-G-T-H-A-M,

whatever, a Buddhist temple
on the outskirts of Bangkok to

carry out cremation preparations.

This is already grim, but it gets worse
in the very specific way as temple

staff prepared for the cremation.

The Temple manager Pie Rat sued hoop,
said that he heard faint knocking

coming from inside the coffin.

Just moments before the ceremony was set
to begin, he described being surprised.

Yeah,

Angela: Uhhuh

John: ordering the coffin opened and
everyone present reacting in shock.

When the lit came off, he said he saw
the woman opening her eyes slightly and

knocking on the inside of the coffin.

His description strongly implied,

Angela: just calmly knocking.

John: E. Well, yeah.

Angela: Oh, my

John: strongly implied that she had
been trying to signal for some time,

meaning she may have been conscious,
trapped, and unheard while the family

and the staff moved forward under
the assumption that she was dead.

Emergency workers were called,
the woman was taken to a hospital

for treatment evaluation.

One final detail makes the
scenario feel even more surreal.

The temple reportedly planned
to livestream the cremation,

Angela: oh my.

John: In other words, if the knocking
hadn't been heard in time, this

could have been a live broadcast
of a catastrophic error prevented

by what amounts to an instinctual.

Wait.

Did the coffin just knock?

Oh, a story like this inevitably raises
uncomfortable questions about end of life

confirmation, medical oversight, and the
reliability of a peer to stop breathing

Angela: in 2020.

John: That's a determination of
death, particularly when transport and

ceremonial timelines move faster than
clinically, than clinical certainty.

So my take,

Angela: I can't wait.

John: This is nightmare
fuel in its purest form.

Yes, because it's not
supernatural, it's procedural.

People love ghost stories fine,
but this, this is the horror of

paperwork, assumptions and momentum.

Once a group of adults decides
this person's dead, everything

becomes a conveyor belt.

Someone calls someone, someone signs
something, someone schedules something,

and the next thing you know, a living
human being is sealed inside a coffin.

While everyone focuses on logistics
and the detail that gets me is

the knocking, because knocking
is just a simple human signal.

It's, it's the universal, hey,
wrong room, and it almost didn't

matter if one guy didn't pause long
enough to ask, did I just hear that?

This becomes a story nobody ever tells
because the process would have completed

Also, the cremation was going to be live
streamed, which means the modern world

is finally achieved peak of absurdity.

Even death has to be content.

So, uh, I, I,

Angela: I can't, I mean,
live streamed cremation.

John: That part almost
gets me more than the rest.

Who the would wanna watch that.

Angela: Exactly.

And, and this is gonna sound morbid and,
but I made it in the utmost respect.

When you stream such things, it's blurred.

Anyway.

So why are we streaming it?

John: Well, I don't think anything
in this would've been blurred.

'cause you're, I mean, literally is
all you see is a coffin going in,

Angela: boy,

John: and then the door
shuts and then s come out.

I mean, it's, I of course, I don't know
how they cremate bodies in Thailand.

Thailand,

Angela: yeah.

John: I apparently don't know how
they confirm death in Thailand either.

And I don't know that they know

Angela: exactly.

I was just about to say, do
they know how to confirm?

Oh, the 2025.

John: Yeah, it was like

Angela: two months ago.

John: It was freaking Thanksgiving.

So what's safe?

Angela: Screaming into the mic?

I'm sorry.

John: What safeguards should exist
clinically and legally before a

body is released for cremation?

Angela: Are we not checking vitals?

Are we not?

I

Angela: don't, did her
heart not be for two days?

John: I don't think that this
could happen in the United States

at this point in, in our history.

I know that this shit happened
because I've heard horror stories.

Angela: It's a religion thing
where like they can't use,

John: I don't know enough about
Buddhists, but I do know that in

the United States, and I think we
talked about this at some point, the

funeral home in freaking Colorado,
that was returned to nature where

Angela: Yeah,

John: they didn't like embalm
you and everything, but

Angela: yeah,

John: I'm, I'm pretty sure most
states have a law that says a

coroner has to confirm death.

Which that's a big questionable
because a coroner could be Cousin Bob.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Who got elected
from bartender to coroner.

That part never makes any sense to me.

You, it's

Angela: your turn,

John: whatever.

But still we do have
processes in place and.

Uh, but for me, I'm like, embalm
me because even if I don't give

a shit, which I really don't, um,
but I do wanna make sure I'm dead.

So once you take, take all my fluids
out and replace them with whatever the

hell they pump in you, at least you're
certain you're not waking up in that box.

Angela: Yeah.

John: But wow.

Is this primarily a medical
failure, a procedural failure,

or an infrastructure issue?

Angela: This is a catastrophic
failure of great proportions.

John: Yeah.

Angela: The, you can't define
the type of failure this is,

John: I mean, in this day and age and
with all the shit that has happened, and

I, again, I've never been to Thailand.

I don't know really much about
Thailand, but the fact that you'll

cremate a box that's brought to you
without confirming what's in it.

It is concerning to me, like for
no other reason than like safety.

What if somebody has a thing
against Buddhist and so they

Angela: Yeah.

John: Fill a coffin full of, I
don't know, dynamite or some shit.

Angela: Exactly.

John: You would think that they
would open the box and again,

I don't know anything about, I

Angela: really hope this starts
a whole set of new protocols.

John: Yeah.

And again, I don't know
anything about Buddhism.

Uh, really very little at all.

But I dunno, it strikes me as odd
that it's a religious ceremony.

I would assumed, I would've assumed that
they would've like anointed the body.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Like, did some things open the box.

I don't, I don't know.

Angela: Also strikes me as odd that they
would show it because they seem private.

Like that would be a private spiritual.

John: Thing.

Yeah.

And Buddhism always is
kinda like very traditional.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: That seems like it anyway.

Angela: Yeah.

To me it feels like that.

I don't know.

John: So if you or the family, how do
you psychologically recover from the fact

that you were minutes away from cremating?

A living relative?

Angela: How do I psychologically
recover from knowing this happened?

And I'm not related.

John: I got, I don't know.

I don't know.

Angela: Ooh,

John: you ready to move on
to the conspiracy court?

Angela: Let's please.

'cause this is gonna haunt me.

Like they say, new fear unlocked.

John: Yeah.

It's a, it's a freaking, it definitely
fits in the strange headline segment.

Angela: Yes, it does say

John: that.

Okay.

Angela: I am so sorry to that family.

John: Yeah, man.

Me too.

Conspiracy coroner?

Angela: Oh, yes.

John: Avril Levine.

Replacement theory, Melissa took over.

Yep.

A long running internet conspiracy claims
that Canadian singer Avril Levine died by

suicide in 2003 and was secretly replaced
by a body devil named Melissa Vanela.

Believers point to changes in veil's
appearance, alleged subliminal messages

in her second album Under My Skin.

Yeah, and the photo shoot shoot where
Melissa appears written on her hand.

The theory originated online, went viral
in 2017 and has been repeatedly denied by

Levine herself, yet refuses to die to die.

The Avil is dead.

Narrative traces back to a 2011
Brazilian blog titled Avil Es

Morta, which means Avil is dead.

Mm-hmm.

The post later acknowledged by its creator
as a demonstration of how conspiracy

theories can be made to look convincing.

Argued that the pressure of sudden
fame after let go in 2002 combined

with personal grief led to Avery's
death shortly after her debut era.

According to the theory, a lookalike
named Melissa, named Melissa had

already been hired to divert paparazzi.

Why Veil sought privacy
after the alleged death.

The story goes, record executives
buried the news and installed

Melissa's veil's replacement to
protect profits from that point on

every album to her and the appearance
would be Melissa performing as Avil.

Angela: Wow.

John: Evidence circulated online includes
personal differences over time, moles

appearing and disappearing, facial
features, changing stylistic shifts

in fashion, posture and handwriting.

Subliminal messages allegedly embedded
in under my skin and related lyrics.

A photo shoot where Melissa
appears written on April's hand.

Claims that guilt over the switch
leaked into lyrics and artwork.

The theory gained broader traction
in 2015 to 2017 when a viral Twitter

thread repackaged the claims for a
new audience, racking up hundreds

of thousands of rete retweets.

It also spawned a mean format, side
by side photos labeled a conspiracy

theory thread, asserting that a
celebrity had died, had been replaced.

Despite the momentum,
the theory has a problem.

AVR Levine is very much alive and
has denied it repeatedly on Brazilian

TV in 2014 during a Facebook Live
in 2017, quote, no, I'm not dead.

I'm here.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And in multiple interviews
afterward, calling it quote, a

dumb internet rumor and expressing
disbelief that anyone bought into it.

Even the original blogs creator
later apologized and clarified.

The post was meant to illustrate how
conspiracies gain credibility, not to

assert any kind of a real claim claim.

Still, the idea persists fuel by
confirmation bias, image comparisons

across decades, and the Internet's
appetite for pulp culture mysteries.

My take this conspiracy is
fascinating, not because it's

plausible, but because it's perfectly
engineered for the internet.

Pop stars, change styles, evolve.

Cameras, makeup, lighting,
and surgery exist.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And yet if you start with
the conclusion she was replaced,

you can make any difference.

Feel like proof.

Yeah.

That's the trick.

Once the frame is set,
every detail becomes a clue.

And what really keeps
this alive is an evidence.

It's nostalgia plus discomfort.

People don't like
admitting that time passes.

Artists grow up and eras end.

So the brain reaches
for something cleaner.

The old version died.

This is fake.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Also, let's be honest, if a
global record label could secretly

replace a superstar and maintain
the illusion flawlessly for

decades, the music industry would be
terrifyingly competent and it's not.

Angela: Well, and she's not the only one.

John: No.

It was Paul McCartney.

We covered down like a couple episodes.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: I mean, it is.

It's over and over.

I'm,

Angela: I'm so sick of the
celebrity death hoaxes.

John: Think of it, I'm, I'm sick of
all of this nonsense and I didn't

even know who this girl was until

Angela: I can tell 'cause it's avr,

John: Avril, il, whatever.

Angela: I was just letting you
'cause people comment and, oh, well

John: the only reason that I even have
any kind of a clue about who she is

is there is a song on a Criminal Minds
episode where a victim is playing guitar.

And

Angela: it's her song.

John: It's a really catchy freaking
song and I really liked it.

And so I, I wanted to find the
music to it so I could play it.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And I ended up searching up
the song and it was one of her songs

and I was like, I don't, I don't
know who this chick is, but Right.

The song's good.

And then I checked out some of
her other stuff and I was like,

apparently she only had one good song.

So there's that.

There

Angela: was a few, and she was married
to Nickelbacks lead singer guy.

John: I have no clue.

Angela: All of a sudden
can't remember his name.

John: No clue.

I have no, no idea about any of that.

But, so why do replacement conspiracy
stick harder to pop stars than

any other public figures years

Angela: creep value.

John: You know, I really think that it's
the fact that it hurts when they die.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Like

Angela: it does.

John: I mean,

Angela: yeah.

Is Ozzy gonna be replaced now?

John: No, but Ozzy lasted, I don't
know how long time, how old Avil.

Avril

Angela: Avril.

John: I don't know how old Avril
was when she supposedly died.

Ozzy was like 80,

Angela: like her early twenties I think.

John: So

Angela: she was young.

John: Yeah.

It's gonna be pretty hard.

And we all watched him
succumb to Parkinson's.

Yeah.

In a very public way.

Angela: But if anybody's coming back,

John: it'd be Ozzy.

Angela: It'd be Ozzy.

That'd be cool.

John: Yeah.

Angela: He's haunting somebody, I'm sure.

John: Well, I'm, I've pretty
much come to the conclusion that

Keith Richards is the undead,

Angela: right?

John: So yeah,

Angela: that man drinks formaldehyde.

I'm sure

John: he's, I think he's done
every drug and smoked everything

and drank every he possibly could.

So, yeah.

But anyway, I think that it's
because we really get attached to.

Those pop stars.

Yeah.

And, and it's not like politicians, like
presidents come and go and then they die.

Or

Angela: people said that about
Biden, people said that Biden

died and there was a replacement.

Did you not hear that?

John: Oh yeah, I heard it everywhere.

But

Angela: you looking at me like
I know something political.

You don't know.

And I was about to leave this room.

John: Oh no, I know, I know all
about it, but, 'cause they, I

Angela: don't wanna think
you've been replaced.

John: The thing about that whole
thing is it was a wider conspiracy

on the whole stolen election and

Angela: Okay.

John: It was all orchestrated
and that had to fit in there

somewhere and all that kinda stuff.

But it wasn't like,

Angela: I actually heard
the words Biden's suit.

John: Yeah.

Angela: And I was like,
are you kidding me?

And I put some colorful
words in there, but what,

John: yeah, I mean that was a, that
was a pretty big conspiracy theory.

I'll probably find its way on
this show at some point, but.

It wasn't because we
didn't want him to die.

Well, I mean, I'm, that could be
taken completely wrong, but it was,

it was not because we were like so
emotionally attached to Joe Biden.

Yeah.

That we couldn't imagine him dying.

Angela: Right.

It was a compare that we were trying
to figure out what was wrong with

him, is what I'm understanding.

John: Um, well, no, it was the idea that
the government was actually a substitute

government and it was all a big show and
we'll get into it one day, I promise.

Okay.

But, you know, compare
that to Elvis Presley.

I mean, you know, everybody still sights,
everybody was just enamored with him,

especially young girls at the time,
and was absolutely in love with him.

And he died relatively young,
not like twenties, well, like 47

Angela: or something.

John: Something like that.

But you know, everybody's like, oh
my gosh, I can't believe he died.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: And then so they didn't want
to face the fact that he had died.

And I think that that
has a lot to do with it.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: And it's just
more with, I don't know.

I think it's more with
musicians than anything.

Angela: It does seem that way.

There's a few actors, but
it's a lot of musicians.

John: And I, I really rapper.

I really think that a lot of
it is music speaks to us in a

way that other media doesn't.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And so when you lose that and.

And I think it's still the way, but
definitely when, when we were kids and

we were growing up, music was what took
you through like the hard times in life.

It still is for me.

Like if I'm having a terrible day or
something, I can crank up some metal

and it just, it speaks to your soul
in a way that when you lose that

connection, it's hard to base man.

It really is.

I was super bummed about
Ozzy's death, even though

Angela: he hadn't done
anything for so long.

John: Well, and even though he was
old and he had had Parkinson's,

and we all knew it was coming,

Angela: it was suffering and Yeah.

John: But still it's like, damn, you know?

Yeah.

What a bummer.

Yeah.

Like when Prince died, it was like, what?

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: And I don't know, I just
don't have that same feeling when

other like popular people, you know?

Like I, I don't, I don't see that really.

Angela: I kind of do.

Like Robin Williams about killed me.

John: Well.

I think maybe, and I, I'm just
spit balling, but part of that

might be the way that he died.

Angela: Yeah.

Well, in Matthew Perry, that one hurt too.

John: Yeah.

I, it's, uh, for me it's not, it's
just not the same, it's not the same

with actors as it is with musicians.

Angela: Yeah.

I think, I think it is more, I
mean, I get lost in music, but

I get, I get lost in movies too.

John: Right.

Angela: Yeah.

So,

John: so what's more convincing
to people online documentation or

side-by-side photos with arrows?

Angela: Side-by-side.

Photos with arrows?

John: A hundred percent

Angela: are, are you kidding?

John: Oh, which modern artists

Angela: arrows specifically.

John: Oh, yeah.

I mean, or red question marks.

Angela: Yes,

John: it is.

Like,

Angela: it has to be red,

John: that one.

Angela: Yeah.

That totally means,

John: it means that's it's proven, proven.

Angela: Question mark was gone.

I wouldn't believe it.

E

John: exactly.

So which modern artist do you
think would be the next target

of a replaced by a double theory?

Angela: Oh man.

I don't, Billy Eilish,

John: I don't know who that is.

Angela: Well, they claim that she's in
the Illuminati and, and I heard rumors

that a lot of 'em that are supposedly
replaced are Illuminati related or

the, what is that Diamond Dage Dallas
page theory with the, the diamond?

John: Yeah.

It's something about like
pedophiles and stuff.

Angela: Yeah.

If they like

John: the pedophile

Angela: show, if they hold
their hands up in a diamond

shape, they're a part of that.

John: Yeah.

It's like the big, I think that
it's like the big pedophile ring.

The whole pizza Pizzagate
theory, the whole, um,

Angela: I don't know if that's all this

John: adrenochrome thing,

Angela: but

John: which there's some shit to that.

Yeah.

Angela: I

John: mean, that would be a
whole episode on its own, but

yeah, whole adrenochrome thing,

Angela: we're gonna have to branch out.

John: It is a real thing.

Angela: But I, I think, I mean, the
very first thing, and I love Bill

Eilish, but I think the very first thing
that came to mind was Billy, because

everybody thinks she's in the Illuminati.

John: I don't know who that is.

So sorry.

Angela: I love

John: him.

You know, me and pop culture.

Angela: Yeah.

John: We don't get along.

Are you ready for the Reddit rabbit hole?

Angela: Yeah.

John: When the internet put on a
horse head and never took it off,

Angela: what?

John: The shit that I find on Reddit.

Angela: What?

John: So our horse mask is a niche
but deeply committed Reddit community

dedicated to one thing people wearing
hyper-realistic horse masks in situations

that range from mildly funny to profoundly
unsettling members share photos and videos

of themselves and friends doing everyday
activities, public stunts and elaborate

bits while wearing oversized horse heads.

The stranger, the scenario the better.

Angela: Is this how the
furry community started?

John: I don't know what
began as a novelty.

Humor has evolved into a
shared performance art space

where absurdity is the point.

So at first glance, our horse mask looks
like a joke subreddit that should have

burned out in a week, and it didn't.

It calcified.

The community re revolves around realistic
latex horse masks, the kind with glassy

eyes, flared nostrils, and teeth that
feel a little too detailed for comfort.

Users post themselves wearing these
masks in increasingly bizarre context

at parties in public spaces, posing
for intentionally awkward photos or

standing silently in places where a horse
should never be and then it escalates.

There are staged glamor shots
that parody modeling culture.

There are public scare bits where
masked users casually walk through

parks or streets committing the cardinal
sin of acting like nothing is wrong.

There are posts where users interact
with real horses, standing side

by side, staring contests included

Angela: for real horses

John: creating an uncanny moment
where even the animals seem unsure how

to process just what they're seeing

Angela: exactly.

John: The subreddit thrives on commitment.

Low effort posts don't survive long.

What to community rewards is conceptual
weirdness, fully committing to the

bit, maintaining deadpan seriousness,
and placing the masks in context that

force viewers to do a double take.

And then there's the video.

Angela: Oh, no.

John: Buried in the subreddits.

Lore.

Angela: Are you showing me the video?

John: No,

Angela: that picture was unsettling.

Thank you.

John: Buried in the subreddits.

Lore is a clip of a man a. Upselling
down the side of a building

while wearing a horse mask and
pretending to ride a tricycle

complete with invisible handlebars
and exaggerated pedaling motions.

It's pointless.

It is dangerous.

It is performed with absolute sincerity,
and it is somehow peak are horse mask.

The comments don't ask why they ask
how and what rope reading did they use?

What makes our horse mask fascinating
isn't just the imagery, it's the culture.

The subreddit operates
on an unspoken rule.

Don't explain the joke.

The humor comes from treating the
horse mask as normal, even when

everything else clearly isn't.

The longer the bit is sustained without
acknowledgement, the stronger it lands.

It's internet Surrealism powered by latex
and collective commitment might take.

This is what happens when humans
discover anonymity and disposable

income at the same time, because
the horse mask itself is not funny.

It's unsettling.

What makes it funny is the confidence.

These people aren't giggling.

They're not winking at the camera.

They're saying, yes, I'm a horse.

This is happening.

Continue, and once everyone agrees not to
blink, first you get a man repelling down

a building while fake peddling nothing.

There's also something
oddly wholesome about it.

No politics, no outrage, no manifesto,
just a bunch of adults putting on

horse heads and trying to weird
out each other for the joy of it.

That said, whoever invented the
realistic horse mask owes society

at least one apology letter,

Angela: starting with me
[e-mail].

I did not know that something could.

Edge out.

It's not edged out 'cause dolls can f
right off, but it's, it's working its

way up there with that whole creepy doll.

Shit.

What?

John: I mean, the whole thing.

I, it's all I could think about is that
scene in The Godfather where the dude

wakes up with the horse's head in the bed.

I, it's, it so freaking strange to me.

Angela: Oh my God.

John: Why is a horse masks
specifically more unsettling

than any other animal masks?

Angela: Oh, I don't know that it
is to me, so I can't answer that.

John: I think it's because of the
freaking godfather scene where the

dude wakes up with the head in a bat.

Angela: True.

It's true.

John: I mean,

Angela: realistic animal
masks just terrify.

Like, why, why are we do okay?

I said the furry community a minute
ago, and I have to backtrack that

that's not the same because they're
dressed up like stuffed animals.

Some of 'em are beautiful.

I'm not gonna judge it.

I don't understand it to each their own.

I'm, I don't want to judge this,
this particular story you're

telling either, but I have to
because it's creeping me out.

John: Yeah.

I'm not as, I'm not as kind as you.

Angela: I know.

John: I I have no problem saying the
furry shit is weird and so is this.

It's, it's freaking weird.

Angela: It's, it's weird, but it is
each their own in their weirdness.

If they're not hurting anybody,
which I'm trying to think about

this or said thing to, but

John: so is our horse mask performance art
absurd as comedy or a social experiment,

Angela: it people got together and
decided how they could creep Angela out.

That's

John: what think.

It's just weird shit
that goes on these dates.

Angela: Oh my god.

John: People with too
much disposable income.

There

Angela: a sexual element to it.

John: Not that I could find.

Angela: Well, thank
goodness for small favors.

John: At what point does committing
to a bit become a lifestyle choice?

I

Angela: don't, I don't know.

John: I mean for me it all comes down
to what I've said over and over again.

Angela: Too much money and too much time.

John: No, I don't understand the
whole social media, TikTok video,

Facebook post real thing, culture.

I don't get this shit.

I do not understand why you
do dumb shit so that a lot of

people watch you do dumb shit.

I don't.

It

Angela: started with jackass.

Do you know how much
money those people made?

It's money.

John: I do know how they made
a lot of freaking money, but

Angela: it's money driven.

John: I know, but I
doesn't mean I understand.

Angela: I'm not, I don't understand
it either, but that is where it's,

John: alright.

You ready for a dip?

Shit's diary?

Angela: Can it?

Yeah.

Okay.

Does it get worse?

Really

Music: dip shit diaries.

John: Man steals truck full of
sports cars just to get home.

An Arizona man, fresh out
of prison allegedly stole.

Angela: Was he wearing lemon juice?

John: No

Angela: damnit.

John: Fresh out of prison, allegedly
stole a tractor trailer loaded with tin.

Brand new shitty Corvette, C
eights worth over $1.25 million.

Claiming he just needed a ride home.

Angela: He needed to go home.

John: Authorities were unimpressed
by the explanation, especially

after the theft involved throwing
a truck driver out of the cab and

leading police on a reckless drive.

According to the Cochise County
Sheriff's Office, the incident began at

a truck stop in Wilcox, Arizona, where
23-year-old Isaiah Walker visiting from

Oklahoma struck up a casual conversation
with a tractor trailer driver Walker.

Reportedly asked about the cargo 10 shiny
high-end Chevy Corvette C eights, and

in the words of law enforcement, quote,
LT the victim into a sense of security.

That sense of security ended abruptly
when Walker allegedly grabbed the

driver and threw him out of the cab,
and then climbed in and drove off

with the entire rig, the value of the
stolen cargo more than $1.25 million.

The stated reason, a felony,
the stated reason for the theft.

Transportation.

A Cochise County Sheriff's deputy
soon spotted the stolen truck

and attempted a traffic stop.

Walker did not comply.

Instead, the Sheriff's Office says the
truck was driven recklessly, forcing

other vehicles off the roadway and
turning what was already a felony

buffet into a public safety hazard of
eventually Walker stopped the truck and

was taken into custody by the deputy,
assisted by a Wilcox police officer.

The Corvettes were recovered without
damage and the original driver

was able to continue the delivery.

Presumably after a very long
moment of reflection, Walker was

arrested and charged with robbery.

11 counts of theft of means of
transportation and felony theft.

When questioned, Walker admitted
stealing the truck, but insisted the

Corvettes were not the motivation
according to the authorities.

He explained that he just, that he
had just been released from prison

and he needed a truck to get home.

Duh.

Not a bus, not a ride.

Share a tractor trailer full of Corvettes.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: Might take.

This is what happens when I need a ride.

Meets absolutely no internal filter.

Look, I get it.

Reentry into society can be hard.

Transportation is a challenge, but most
people solve that with a phone call, a

bus ticket, or maybe stealing a bicycle if
they're really committed to bad decisions.

This man skipped all immediate
steps and went straight to Grand

Theft Auto Corvette Edition.

Also, I love the logic that the
Corvettes weren't the reason, sir.

Yes, you chose the most conspicuous
high value law enforcement

attracting ride available.

If your goal to get home quietly, you
pick the automotive equi equivalent of

wearing a neon sign that says, arrest me.

Angela: Yes,

John: on the bright side, at
least he didn't damage the cars.

That's considerate
criminal, but considerate.

So.

You just need a ride home.

What is the worst
possible vehicle to steal?

Angela: I'm gonna say this one.

John: Yeah.

Angela: Yeah.

John: I mean,

Angela: it's like liberace's getaway plan.

John: Like

I was listening to a, a case the other
day and this guy stole like one of

those like bright, I don't know, cars.

It's not my thing, but.

Those bright yellow dodges
that came out a few years ago,

like Charger the Transformer.

And like there's, but
there's a certain, ah,

Angela: sorry.

John: That's okay.

There's like a certain brand, uh, like

Angela: yeah.

John: Number that you give colors and
they're like, everything is yellow.

The mirrors yellow and
everything's yellow.

It's like the transformer, right?

Yeah.

Angela: Bumblebee.

John: Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, and I was thinking during that,
I was thinking, wow, that's like the

most conspicuous freaking vehicle.

It does not even come close to this one.

Angela: What about the robber
and the, the Barbie Jeep?

Like, come on.

John: Still doesn't come close.

Angela: I know.

No, it doesn't, but
it's just up there like,

John: oh, it's definitely up there.

Angela: It's cousins.

John: Yeah.

I mean, hear those stories and you're
like, well, that's pretty conspicuous.

But then you, I mean like.

You compare the number of semis on
the road to the number of cars and

you're like, yeah, well there's
a whole hell of a lot more cars.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And then you compare the
number of semis carrying Corvettes.

Angela: Nearly $3 million
worth of Corvettes.

Yeah.

John: 1.25.

Angela: Oh, I thought you said two point.

John: Sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

Your point.

I mean, Corvettes are freaking expensive.

Angela: Yeah.

John: This is a truck loaded with them.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And you know, I mean, you pass like
all kinds of box trucks and wonder if

Angela: driver's changing his,
uh, job now, like I will not carry

that many Corvettes ever again.

John: I would be surprised
if he's looking for a job.

'cause most trucking companies have
very hard and fast rules about Yeah.

Like hitchhiker and shit.

So Of course I don't know
that the guy actually Yeah.

Didn't, it was a hitchhiker.

He like hijacked it.

Yeah.

So, I don't know.

I don't know.

But does this qualify as
optimism, entitlement, or pure

post-prison decision fatigue?

Angela: Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna go with optimism.

Just wanted to get home.

John: Yeah.

I mean, totally honest.

This guy is a freaking, he's
23 years old and I can already

say he's a career criminal.

Angela: Yeah.

John: He's going to spend
his entire life in prison

Angela: and he is gonna find new
and colorful ways to get there.

John: Yes.

Angela: Yeah.

John: So should the Corvettes weren't the
reason be accepted as a legal defense?

Angela: Yes.

John: You think so?

Angela: I also think the Corvettes
should also be discounted now because

they've been through so much trauma.

John: They're probably
gonna be worth more.

Angela: That's true.

John: Okay.

Dip shit diaries number
two, Florida fugitive.

Hiding in a dryer.

Angela: Was he wrinkled?

John: Well, you tell me.

Angela: Yeah, it looks like it.

John: Florida deputies searching for
a shooting suspect received a tip

that he was hiding inside a home.

After an extensive search, they
located, the suspect folded into a

clothes dryer where he was removed
limb by limb law enforcement.

Law enforcement reports indicate
the suspect appeared to believe

household appliances double
his invi invisibility close.

According to the s Camia County Sheriff's
Office in Florida, deputies were

searching for 30-year-old David Jerome
Jackson, who was wanted in connection

with a March 15th shooting incident.

Jackson faced multiple serious charges
including shooting into a dwelling,

aggravated assault with a deadly weapon
damaged to property and possession

of a firearm by a convicted felon.

After receiving a tip that Jackson was
inside a residence off Edgewater Drive,

deputies conducted what they described
as an extensive search of the home.

Rooms were checked, closets were
searched, furniture was examined.

Eventually, the search led
deputies to the laundry room.

There they discovered Jackson crammed
inside a clothes dryer, an appliance.

The sheriff's office later
described as having a quote,

remarkably small dryer drum.

How he fit remains unclear why he thought
this would work, remains even less clear.

Deputies carefully extracted him one
limit a time, as Jackson reportedly

clung to what authorities referred to
as his quote, tumble Ready, hideout.

Once, once fully removed from the dryer.

Deputies also recovered three
dryer sheets, two mismatched socks,

and a crumbled tissue, along with
Jackson himself, who was wearing

what officials described as a quote,
surprisingly wrinkled Star Wars shirt.

Angela: I can't

John: breathe.

Yeah.

Jackson was taken into custody
without further incident because

Kaia County Sheriff's Office,

Angela: that's gonna become
a meme for dryer sheets.

I see it now.

John: Yeah, I, I mean,

Angela: and I'm gonna interject here.

I have never, I've watched all the
Harry Potter movies a billion times.

Never once have I heard
Maytag or Kenmore and any.

Of those smells.

John: Yeah, no.

The Anaca County Sheriff's Office
capped off their news release with

a final flourish reminding the
public that quote, as always the

case, all, all suspects are presumed
innocent and free of static clinging.

So my take, this is what
happens when you confuse hide

and seek with law enforcement.

Eva Evasion.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but
if deputies are actively searching a house

for you, appliances are not a safe place.

They are not invisibility portals.

They are not magical
pockets of legal immunity.

Also to the mental image, the
mental him image here is incredible.

This man had time, time.

To choose a hiding place.

Assess his options and conclude, yes.

Yeah, the dryer.

This will end well and the
deputies pulling him out limb

by limb like he's a human light
trap that is cinematic it's art.

Bonus points to the sheriff's
office for commenting.

Holy to the dryer thing.

Press relief release.

If you're going to arrest someone from
an appliance, you might as well enjoy it.

Angela: Oh my gosh.

All I can see is, you know how on
the little microphones that has

their TV affiliation, all I can see
is all of them putting Like bounce.

John: Yeah.

Angela: Snuggle.

John: I mean, this is an actual picture of
this guy crammed into this freaking thing.

Oh

Angela: my gosh.

John: This is like.

First of all, I think he's
like a pretty large dude.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And this is just a normal
household front load dryer.

But the, the part I notice most about
this picture is it's one of the ones

that has a window in the freaking door.

So notice that, that this isn't like
a, this isn't like the old dryers

that you don't see when they're going,
this is like one of the ones that has

the window thing, which, uh, honest
it also in intrudes into the drum

part, which makes the space smaller.

But you just have to look in the window
to see this dumb ass crammed in there.

Angela: He thinks he looks like laundry.

John: Uh, well, he kind of does, but, but

Angela: that's the, oh my gosh.

John: So where does hiding in a dryer rank
among the worst hiding places of all time?

Angela: I can't even take
you seriously right now.

Ah.

I would say up there.

Yeah.

John: So do you think

Angela: that the washer
might be a little bit worse?

John: It might be, yeah.

So do you think he believed
the dryer was too small to be

checked, or he just panicked

Angela: it?

I think he probably did think they,
oh, no one's gonna hide in there.

He probably thought that

John: it had a window in the
door and just, it had to take

time to get into that thing.

And did you see how he was folded in?

Angela: Hilarious?

Yeah, it made me uncomfortable.

John: Like, there's no way that was fast.

Angela: No,

I don't know.

I don't know.

John: So should law enforcement
start checking appliances first?

Yes.

Or does that encourage escalation?

Angela: Apparently microwaves are next.

Yes.

John: Yeah.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Oh yeah.

That was, that was a fun one.

Angela: Oh my gosh.

My cheeks hurt.

John: Yeah.

All right.

You ready for number three?

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: Dip shit diaries.

Number three, suspect accidentally
calls 9 1 1 and records his murder plan.

Angela: Oh man,

John: A Florida man, a legis, a legislate

Angela: Florida.

John: Uh, a Florida man allegedly
orchestrated a murder after

an argument at a waffle house.

Then waffle invert, oh my God.

Inadvertently butt dialed 9 1 1
recording himself saying he planned to

follow the victim home and kill him.

The accidental call became key
evidence leading to his arrest

on a first degree murder charge.

According to th, to authorities in
Oakland Park, Florida, Scott Simon was

arrested for his role in killing, in the
killing of a 33-year-old Nicholas Walker,

who was shot while driving onto I 95.

The case took a turn from tragic
to astonishing due to a mistake.

So basic, it feels almost fictional.

Simon accidentally called 9 1 1.

And during the unde, unintended,
unintended call, dispatchers

recorded Simon telling someone
else that he intended to follow

Walker home and kill him.

Police say the murder stemmed from an
earlier argument in a nearby waffle house.

In the early morning hours, deputies
responded to a crash on I 95, around

6:40 AM where they found Walker's
Buick smashed into a guardrail After

firefighters extinguished a vehicle,
fire officers discovered Walker

had suffered fatal gunshot wounds.

Investigators do not believe
Simon pulled the trigger himself.

Instead, he is accused of coordinating
the shooting and has been charged

with first degree murder for his role.

Detectives are continuing to
search for two additional suspects

believed to have been involved
in scene in surveillance footage.

The suspects were reportedly
traveling in a black 2012 Buick Gs.

The irony is unavoidable.

The crime allegedly planned in secret
was effectively narrated to emergency

services by the suspect himself
before the crime even occurred.

And let me just be clear, the fact
that I'm putting a murder in here

doesn't make the murder humorous.

Angela: No, no, no.

John: But the act itself, yeah.

So,

Angela: oh gosh,

John: my take, I don't know what's
more incredible, the audacity of

planning a murder over a waffle
house argument, or the confidence

required to announce it to a 9 1 1
dispatcher without even realizing it.

And honestly.

This might be one of my favorite dip shit
diary stories so far, because it hits

the Holy Trinity of bad decision making.

Florida Waffle House and
zero situational awareness.

These are the two most frequently
visited locations in Dip Shit diaries.

And somehow this story managed to
combine them and add an accidental

murder confession for good measure.

This isn't CRI criminal masterminding.

This is self-incrimination with pockets.

We've discovered bad disguises,
worse hiding places, and

crimes fueled by optimism.

But this belongs in its own
category, but dialed intent.

The university, the universe didn't
need an informant or a witness.

It just needed gravity, a touchscreen,
and a man who should not be

trusted with a phone if you're
going to commit a serious crime.

And to be clear, don't,

Angela: yeah,

John: maybe start by not recording your
plan for law enforcement before you do it.

Angela: The only thing he's missing
is stealing an ambulance to do it.

John: Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I don't know what it is
about Florida and Waffle House.

But

Angela: seriously,

John: God, they're in
a lot of these stories.

Angela: What is happening?

John: I don't know.

So where does butt dialing
your murder plan to?

9 1 1 rank among the all
time dumb criminal mistakes

Angela: up there?

John: Definitely up there.

Angela: Up there.

Where there is, I don't even know anymore.

It's probably at the Waffle House

John: probably.

How often do major
cases hinge on suspects?

Incriminating themselves
without being asked?

Angela: Geez,

you finding a lot of 'em?

So more than I thought.

John: Yeah.

Angela: Oh,

John: should phones come with a warning
label may record your worst decisions.

Angela: Yes.

It should be in the Miranda Rights now.

John: Oh yeah.

Probably should.

Angela: It should.

John: So if you had to read
those before they do it, so

Angela: no, like Verizon should issue

John: if you call 9 1
1, you might be arrested

Angela: Miranda.

Right When you get your phone, like this
phone could record you doing stupid shit.

How about you don't do stupid shit?

John: Yeah,

Angela: there we go.

But then we wouldn't have

John: fun stuff.

Angela: Talk about shit's diary so, oh my.

John: Alright with that.

You ready for our weird shit section?

Angela: If it could get weirder, it will.

Music: Weird shit.

John: Weird shit.

Number one.

The Phantom Kangaroo Australia's
weirdest export problem.

The phantom kangaroo is an out of
place crypted phenomenon involving

reported sightings of kangaroo like
creatures in locations where kangaroos

absolutely should not be, including
Wisconsin, Tennessee, Nebraska,

Iowa, London, Japan, and Oklahoma.

Witnesses consistently describe a
hopping tail balanced animal resembling

a kangaroo, sometimes at normal size and
sometimes reportedly giant, leading to

over a century of confusion, speculation,
and deeply uncomfortable police reports.

Sightings of phantom kangaroos stretch
back more than a hundred years, and

what makes them unsettling isn't just
the animal, it's the consistency.

One of the earliest reports came
during the 1899 tornado in Richmond,

Wisconsin, when a woman claimed she
sighed kangaroo hopping through her

backyard amid storm damage, because
nothing says credible eyewitness like a

tornado and a marsupial at the same time.

In 1934, things escalated dramatically
in Hamburg, Tennessee where

reports claimed a giant kangaroo
killed in eight police dogs.

That detail alone launched this
story from escaped zoo animal

to what the hell is happening?

Angela: Yeah, I don't like it anymore.

John: The sightings continued.

1958, Charles Wetzel reported a kangaroo
chasing dogs near his cabin along the

Platte River in Nebraska, 19 74, 2 police
officers, Leonard Sigo and Michael b Bern

claimed they encountered a kangaroo in an
alley when Cigi attempted to handcuff it.

The animal allegedly
kicked him and escaped.

In 19 78, 2 men in Waseca, Wisconsin
snapped a blurry photo of a kangaroo

in the bushes, which someone, which
somehow made the story less believable

and more suspicious at the same time.

Uh, 1981 Ray Alt saw a massive
kangaroo bounding past his sheep flock.

1999 and Iowa, an Iowa woman watched
a large animal jump past her cows.

In 2004, sightings of a six
foot kangaroo eating leaves were

reported in Lewis Sham London.

2002 to 2009, kangaroo like creatures
were reported re reported repeatedly

near Miama Mountain in Japan, earning
the nickname Miama Kangaroo, 2013

Hunters in Oklahoma recorded footage of
a kangaroo like animal sparking debate

over whether it was an escaped exotic pet.

At no point did anyone ask why
kangaroos, why kangaroos seem to favor

rural chaos in police encounters,

Angela: right?

John: The most reasonable explanation
is also the most boring, escaped zoo

animals or exotic pets, particularly
wallabies, which are smaller, but easily

mistaken for kangaroos at a distance.

However, some sightings, especially
those involving unusually large animals,

have fueled speculation about extinct
species like Paco Pro Copan Protan.

A giant short face kangaroo that
lived thousands of years ago.

The theory immediately collapses
when you remember propone was

herbaceous and very, very extinct.

The police dog incident is the
biggest problem herbivores, which

kangaroos are, do not typically
eat law enforcement animals.

Yeah.

Some have suggested a rabid
kangaroo acting defensively.

A misidentified escaped exotic predator
or less plausibly a surviving a clock.

Delta, ecla delta, I can't say these
freaking words, but it's a prehistoric

carnivorous kangaroo with fangs that died
out about two, about 10 million years ago.

Cryptozoologist, Lauren Coleman and Mark
A. Hall proposed that some sightings

might actually be devil monkeys.

Another.

Cryp frequently blamed for anything
hopping aggressively in North America.

Angela: Devil monkeys
blamed for everything

John: to complicate matters.

Further, the aisle of man has a legitimate
wild wallaby population since the 1970s

after a pair escape captivity proving
that once marsupials get loose, they

don't give a shit about geography.

Angela: Honey badger, don't give a

John: my take.

I love this one because it's just
absurd enough to be believable and

just violent enough to ruin that
believability a kangaroo hopping

through Wisconsin during a tornado.

Sure, a kangaroo kicking a cop
during a failed handcuff attempt.

Honestly that tracks you see that so
bad, a kingdom room eating police dogs.

That's where I start asking questions.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Also, I appreciate how consistently
these sightings end with the authorities

saying, well, it escaped, which is
the crypted equivalent of we tried

nothing and we're out of ideas.

Angela: Yes.

John: What really gets me is that no one
ever reports seeing the kangaroo arrive.

It's just there.

It's always just there.

In a field, in an alley in England,
in Japan, like kangaroos are

teleporting across the globe,
specifically to cause confusion.

In leaf, it's mock man.

If this is an escaped animal problem,
Australia owes the world an apology to

Angela: her.

John: So what is the most
believable explanation for kangaroo

sightings outside of Australia

Angela: escaping from zoos?

John: I guess, I mean.

Full disclosure.

I don't know anything about kangaroos.

I really don't know.

So can kangaroos live in Wisconsin?

Because it,

Angela: it's, I don't know.

John: Wisconsin knows all about winter.

Angela: I feel like.

Yeah, they need to be warm, but
I don't know a whole lot either.

John: I mean, they have hair, so,

Angela: yeah.

John: Obviously, you know, they
have some, I, I don't know.

Angela: I think they're a warm climate.

John: Well, I think
Australia's pretty warm.

Angela: Yeah.

John: So I just don't know that
a kangaroo could live in Iowa.

'cause it gets cold there too.

Nebraska, Nebraska, Wisconsin.

Angela: Yeah,

John: that's like freaking
cold as shit up there.

Angela: Yeah.

I don't know.

John: At what In eating dogs?

Angela: Eating dog.

I don't like that.

I don't like it at all.

John: And what cop says
there's a kangaroo?

I think I'll hand cuff

Angela: it.

Cuff it?

Yes.

I wanna see that.

Because you know, they'll
never get out of those hands.

John: Yeah.

I mean.

I don't know if, if he was trying to
put the handcuffs on its legs, maybe.

But if he's trying to put 'em
on his little bitty arm, things

like, what the hell's that can do?

Angela: So sad that people
can't see you right now.

John: I mean,

Angela: arm things.

John: Yeah.

I, I don't know.

So

Angela: he'd do better with zip ties I
think should have done, I think you'd

John: better off with a
rope, like a Larry Rope.

Angela: There you go.

John: But I don't know.

Maybe

Angela: been into the sunset.

John: Well, you know, we're pretty
adept at, you know, capturing, escaped

animals on the roads of Wyoming.

Yeah.

I don't know about Wisconsin,
but, uh, actually I don't know

where the, we did the handcuffing
incident happen in Wisconsin, or

Angela: I don't know.

John: But anyway, at what point does
escaped exotic pets stop being plausible?

Angela: Mm.

John: For me it's eating dogs.

Angela: Eating dogs.

John: Yeah.

Angela: Yeah.

Well, tigers would eat dogs.

John: Tigers don't hop on two legs.

Angela: That's true.

Tigger does, but he only dogs.

John: Yeah.

Why do crypts always.

I

Angela: wanna tangent just now.

John: Why do Cryptics always seem
to have a beef with police dogs?

Angela: It's the only
thing that'll chase them

John: apparently.

So

Angela: besides you looking for Moth, man?

John: Yeah, I'll chase Moth man,
but I ain't chasing a kangaroo.

I think I'm scared of them.

Bacon, beef.

Pretty freaking brutal.

Like more

Angela: fruit of them now.

Have you seen 'em like
box they're They're bluff.

John: Yeah.

And they like jump and kick
you with their hind feet?

Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

It's acrobatic but pretty violent looking.

Angela: I mean there's a reason why

John: I wouldn't wanna go like

Angela: cars in

John: face to face with lot

Angela: Shelly.

I have those really big kangaroo guards.

They're bigger than our
deer guards out here.

John: I dunno, I don't
know anything about it.

Alright.

Ready for weird shit number two.

Angela: Yeah.

John: The faceless
figure of Chester Castle.

Angela: Okay.

No, I changed my mind.

John: This is weird.

Angela: I don't like faceless things.

John: That is an actual picture.

In 2025, security cameras at Chester
Castle captured a captured footage of

a strange, faceless figure walking in
front of the main gates exactly where

the medieval gatehouse once stood.

The sighting followed a late night
security callout in which a normally

fearless guard dog refused to leave
the vehicle and the, and the guard

reportedly feeling overwhelmed,
dread, overwhelming dread.

Despite finding no physical intruder,
English heritage has neither conformed

nor denied a paranormal explanation.

The incident began like
a routine security alert.

A guard was called to Chester Castle
after motion detection flagged

unusual activity at the site.

The control room insisted cameras
had picked up an intruder and

urged a thorough investigation.

The moment the guard arrived,
something felt wrong.

He later reportedly f. He later
reported feeling as though a

hundred eyes were watching him.

His dog described as the size of a small
bear and typically unflappable refused

to leave the car, cowering and whimpering
when the guard searched the grounds.

He found no signs of forest entry.

No footprints, no disturbance.

The cameras, however,
told a different story.

Footage showed a humanoid figure with
no discernible face facial features

walking in front of the castle's main
gates precisely over the footprint

of the original medieval gatehouse.

No one could account for the figure
and no person matching hints.

Its appearance was found on site English.

Heritage has been
careful with its wording.

They're not calling it a ghost.

They're also not saying it wasn't one.

The Chester castle incident
emerged after English.

Heritage asked staff and volunteers
across it properties to submit

accounts of unexplained experiences.

The response according to the
officials was overwhelming

among the reported phenomena.

A disembodied hand seen at
bells at Belley Hall in North.

In North Umberland, unexplained
piano music echoing through the

walls of ba balls over Castle.

In Derby Shire, apparitions resembling
soldiers vanishing into the woods near W.

Wet near rest park in Bedford Shire.

Reports of visitors feeling
hands held shoves from behind

in cold spots in empty rooms.

Bolts over Castle alone maintains
a ghost book where staff and

visitors document strange
experiences, some including sketches.

Michael Carter, a curator of history at
English Heritage, emphasized that these

reports aren't just modern ghost stories.

He views them as a part of a tradition
stretching back for centuries,

linking supernatural narratives to
ruins, monastic sites and places

marked by conflict or abandonment.

From medieval warnings about desecrating
sacred land to gothic literature about and

Victorian hauntings, Carter argues that
ghost stories serve as a way to process

history loss in the presence of the past.

MiTek.

I appreciate how English heritage
handled this by essentially saying,

we're not saying it's a ghost, but
we're also not saying it's not a ghost.

Because here's the thing,
security guards know their sights.

Dogs know when something is wrong
and cameras don't feel fear, but

they also don't imagine things
a faceless figure walking.

Exactly.

Where a medieval gatehouse once stood is
neither is either the most historically

considerate trespasser in the UK or
something that has been taking the

same route for several hundred years.

Also, any story where a dog refuses
to get out of the car immediately

jumps several credibility levels.

Animals don't give a shit about vibes.

If a dog says, Nope, I'm listening.

At a minimum, this is a reminder
that old places remember being old

and sometimes they let you know.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

Always listen to the dogs.

John: Yeah.

I mean, uh.

I gotta say this.

Security guard has balls of brass
like the size of basketballs.

Because if I've got a guard dog,

Angela: the size of a bear,

John: the size of a small bear
that is like, this is what they do.

They go investigate.

I mean, honestly, is it, and the dog is
whimpering and like Uhuh, I'm not going,

Angela: yeah.

John: I'm calling the boss and being like,

Angela: I'm out.

John: You either get me like a
whole freaking crew of people.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Or you find yourself
a new security guard.

'cause I'm not doing this shit by myself.

If my dog won't go with
me, I'm not going alone.

Angela: No.

John: So how much weight should
be given to animal reactions

and paranormal reports?

Angela: All of the weight.

John: A hundred percent.

Like the dog adds all the credibility Yes.

To this story.

For me,

Angela: it would be harder for me to
believe if there wasn't an animal.

John: Yeah.

I mean it's a really good creepy picture.

It's one of the best I've seen, but.

You know, that can all be faked.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And shit.

But a dog cannot.

I mean, a dog can be trained, but
a guard dog is not gonna be trained

to cower and whimper in the backseat
of a car and refuse to go do its job

Angela: guard.

Dog buddies would make fun of him.

John: Yeah.

So why do so many apparitions appear in
locations that no longer physically exist?

I'm, I'm right there with, I don't know,

Angela: no words, only noises.

John: So is this about ghosts or about
how humans process, history and place?

Angela: Both,

John: yeah.

I mean, I think this story
is very likely about ghosts.

Yeah.

Again, the dog.

Angela: Yeah.

But history falls into that too.

John: Oh yeah, man.

And I mean, England is so freaking old.

I know.

You know, I mean, all of
Europe, we've talked about it

a million times, but I mean it,

Angela: God, I'm so scared of flying

John: anyway.

It's not like.

It's any older than North
America, the continent.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And it's not like, you know, we
didn't have people living in North America

for thousands at th but that is where
buildings, huge buildings that remain

Angela: Yes.

John: For centuries Yes.

Are still there.

Angela: Yes.

John: You know, I mean, look, most
of the native populations in North

America were, they were traveling,
they were, you know, moving around.

Yeah.

They, they lived in tepees.

Some lived in, you know,
houses essentially.

But, but you know, a lot of, at least
the Plains Indians were very nomadic.

The Indians down in Louisiana, a lot
of the native populations were stone.

They migrated because they had to,
because when you're, you know, eating

the food that exists in an area, it's
really easy for you to eat at all.

And as it's gone.

So you gotta move to the next place.

And so, um, so we don't have that.

Long history of mm-hmm.

Literally hundreds or thousands
of year old buildings.

Yes.

But Europe does.

Angela: Yes.

John: Alright, we ready for the next one?

Angela: Yes.

John: Weird shit.

Number three, the Russian
fireball over Lake RO 1663.

In August of 1663 villagers near Lake
Zara Bza in what is now, I picked a

lot of big, what were you thinking?

So in what is now vol? A blast.

Russia reported a prolonged encounter
with a massive glowing ball of fire

that descended from the sky in broad
daylight, hovered over a lake for hours,

emitted intense heat, illuminated the
water to the lake bed, and reappeared

multiple times before finally vanishing.

The event was documented by a Monas,
by a monastery monk based at, based

on eyewitness test testimony, making
it one of the most detailed pre-modern

aerial anomaly reports on record.

The weirdness.

The incident occurred on Saturday,
August 15th, 1663, around midday,

not at night, not during a storm,
but under a clear blue sky.

As villagers gathered in church
near Lake Zara Boro, they

heard a loud noise in the sky.

Many rushed outside.

Among them was a farmer named Lev
ov, whose account was later recorded

in writing by a monk, giving his
story, giving the story an unusual

level of con, of contemporaneous
documentation for the 17th century.

Header Rob described seeing a quote,
giant ball of fire, descending

from the south and moving low
across the sky, passing over the

church and toward the nearby lake.

The object was described as enormous,
approximately 45 meters or about

140 feet in diameter, and intensely
bright, two beams or rays of fire

projected from the front of the object.

Blue smoker vapor appeared to emanate from
its sides as it moved from south to west.

The fireball vanished and that
should have been the end of it, but

about an hour later, this fireball
reappeared over the same lake.

This time it lingered for
approximately an hour and a half.

The object hovered low
over Lake Zara Boro.

Fishermen in a boat on the lake, nearly
a mile away, attempted to approach,

but were driven back by searing heat.

They reportedly suffered.

They've reportedly suffered burns
from the intense light alone.

Under the glow of the fireball, the
entire lake was illuminated to its

bottom, estimated at about nine to 10
meters or around 30 feet Deep witnesses

said the water looked as though it was
covered with rust beneath the glow.

Fish fled toward the banks invisible
panic object, disappeared again

and then reappeared a third time.

Described as an E as
even larger than before.

Before finally flying off
to the west and vanishing.

No explosion.

No impact crater, no explanation.

Modern attempts to explain the ero.

Fireball have struggled lar largely
because the event doesn't behave like a

typical meteor meteor or a bull light.

I don't know what the hell a bull light
is, but unlikely meteors don't hover

reappear or remain stationary for hours.

Yeah, it could have been ball
lightning, sometimes sighted, but

knowing ball lightning is far smaller,
far shorter lived, and not capable

of illuminating an entire lake or
burning fishermen at a distance.

The PHE plasma phenomenon, a possibility
though no and natural plasma event

behaves exactly like this, especially
repeatedly, or human technology.

Possible for the era.

This occurred in 1663 centuries before
power flight or controlled aerial

devices because the event occurred in
daylight involved prolonged hovering,

intense heat repeated appearances and
intelligence and intelligence seeming

movement along the lake surface.

It has been cited in early UFO literature
as one of the strongest pre-industrial

anomalies area, pre indu, pre-industrial,
anomalous aerial encounters.

Importantly, this was not folklore
passed down orally for centuries.

It was written down shortly
after it happened by a monk

recording local testimony.

My take.

This is one of my favorite old wool old
world cases because it refuses to behave.

Angela: Yeah.

John: If this were just a fireball,
streaking across the sky, fine meteor,

but this thing came back twice.

It hovered.

I'm done with you dad Burns fishermen.

It lit up a lake like someone flipped on
God's flashlight, and the villagers didn't

describe it like a miracle or an omen.

They described it like something
physical, something that obeyed

space, distance, and heat.

Also, imagine being a 17th century
fisherman, rowing toward a glowing

object the size of a modern aircraft
carrier, only to realize it's cooking

you alive from across the water.

That's not superstition.

That's a survival lesson.

Whatever this was, it was not shy.

It showed up at noon, put on a
multi-hour performance and left

without explaining itself, which
frankly is the most unsettling part.

Angela: Yeah.

John: So

Angela: looks like a
picture of a dilated eye.

John: Yeah.

This obviously, this
is not a picture of it.

This is a picture of a, well,

Angela: you have 1663,

John: but this is an actual picture
of a fireball that appeared in Mexico.

Angela: Oh.

John: So, you know, I couldn't get
a picture of the one from 1663.

Right.

But this thing happened in Mexico.

Angela: I don't believe
you tried hard enough.

John: Yeah, I probably didn't.

So why do so many historical aerial
anomaly reports involve water?

Angela: That's a good question.

Water is tricky.

John: You know, like with the
whole UFO phenomena, water is

involved a lot of the time.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: Um, there's been, well, it's like
a brutal of UFOs coming outta the water.

Some people believe that they actually
had bases under the oceans and stuff here.

So I don't know.

I don't know what the hell to
even think about this, but.

Could unknown atmospheric phenomena,
account for the heat and the

duration it that is described?

Angela: I think so.

John: I don't freaking think so.

I don't think there's any
unknown atmospheric thing

that could cause this shit.

Angela: It's unknown for reason.

John: Yeah.

But I mean, we do
understand the atmosphere.

Angela: Did we, in 1663?

John: Well, we do now.

I mean, we, we read these reports.

We ought to be able to say, oh yeah,
well that's, that's just this, this,

Angela: yeah.

John: Because I mean,
you know, it's, but the

Angela: atmosphere is constantly changing.

John: Yeah.

But this is not like, this
is not like lightning.

This is, I mean,

Angela: monstering you up, it's amazing.

John: I got nothing on this.

I got nothing.

So if, and the whole thing of it wa
is that it adds so much credibility

to it is the whole monk thing because.

He has no reason.

Yeah.

This was witty before
YouTube and TikTok and shit.

He has no reason to make it
up and record it like fiction

and I mean they just, monks.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Were some of the few
people that could read and write.

Angela: Yeah.

John: So they were, a lot of
the times, the ones that were

recording history and they were

Angela: very rich.

Degree of trust.

John: They were very regimented to Yeah.

Record exactly what happened.

And so I, I gotta believe it happened
probably almost exactly as described.

Yeah.

John: But I, I got nothing.

I don't know if this happened today with
video, what would we assume it was ai.

A hundred percent.

It is the freaking giant
snake in the water thing, so

Angela: yeah.

John: Alright.

You ready for the next

Angela: one?

Or the millions?

Have you seen the new one?

John: No.

Angela: It's like millions of
'em just erupt out of the river.

Now that I don't wanna believe,
but I want to believe the big one.

I don't wanna see it,
but I wanna believe it.

John: All right, so in my apparently
sadistic, putting together this

thing, yes, masochistic, I should say.

Um, I picked another really hard one
to pronounce, so this is gonna be.

Amy Lee Saje Saje.

That's my best.

My best French,

Angela: I see it.

John: So Amy Lee Saje was a 19th
century French school teacher

reported reportedly capable of bio
location appearing simultaneously

in two places between 1845 and 1846.

Dozens of students at a girl's boarding
school in what is now Latvia claim.

To see her double repeatedly,
sometimes mimicking her movements

and sometimes acting independently.

The case was recorded by multiple
respected writers of the era and

remains one of the most cited examples
of doppelganger and bio bilocation

phenomenon in paranormal history.

The events took place in 1845 in Ion
Knot of nla, nla, some shit like that.

A boarding school for Daughters of Ian
Nobility among the students was Julie.

I am gonna try that one.

B Julie De Gutto.

Age 13.

Whose testimony would later
become the primary firsthand

account of what happened?

What was I thinking when
I put this together?

Angela: I don't know.

John: That year the school hired
a new French teacher, Madam Elle.

See Jois 32 years old,
originally from Dije.

By all accounts, she was unremarkable,
kind, quiet, anxious, somewhat nervous,

and well-liked by her students.

Then the rumors began.

Students started reporting
that they had seen Madam Moel.

That's close enough in two
places at the same time.

At first, the stories were dismissed as
confusion or exaggeration, but soon the

phenomenon became impossible to ignore.

During one French lesson, French lesson,
I guess, our students take English.

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

As Shaza stood at the at the
blackboard writing with chalk,

the students suddenly saw two
identical zes standing side by side.

Both figures made the same
gestures, both moved in sync.

The difference was precise and chilling.

Only one held Chakin actually
wrote the other, mimicked the

motion without touching the board.

On another occasion, a student being
helped with her, with her dress turned

and saw two s reflecting in a mirror, both
appearing to assist her simultaneously.

The most dramatic event occurred when
all 42 students were gathered in a

large hall working on embroidery.

Through the windows, they could see Zay
outside in the garden gathering flowers.

Another teacher briefly left the
room leaving her chair empty.

Moments later, Sy appeared
sitting in that chair.

The students panicked and
then checked the garden.

She was still there.

Still picking flowers, though.

Now moving slowly as if drained or
exhausted inside the seated figure

remained motionless and silent.

Two of the braver students approached,
they claimed the figure offered

slight resistance to touch like
brushing against fine fabric.

O one student passed
partially through the figure.

It did not react.

Gradually, the seated SZA
faded away at the same moment.

The zeig in the garden resumed
normal movement and energy.

This pattern repeated itself through
S Jay's two tenure at the school.

Over time, parents grew alarmed.

Enrollment dropped from
42 students to just 12.

After 18 months, she was asked to resign.

Her response was telling
awe the 19th time.

It is very, very hard to bear.

Angela: Oh, wow.

John: She explained that she had
previously taught at 18 other

schools starting at age 16, and
had been forced to leave everyone

apparently for the same reason.

After she'd lived briefly with relatives
where even young children reportedly

said they saw two Aunt Emily's.

Then she traveled into the
interior of Russia and vanished

from the historical record.

Entirely possible explanations,
skeptical interpretations have ranged

from mass hallucination and suggestion
to misinterpretation of reflections or

exhaustion induced illusions, but those
explanations struggle with several facts.

Dozens of witnesses.

Mm-hmm.

Repeated consistent observations
over months, independent reports

from different locations.

Physical interaction
reported with the apparition.

Others have suggested neurological
conditions, disassociative phenomena

or psychological projection, but none
fully account for the synchronized

appearances witnessed by entire groups
in paranormal literature, the case is

treated as a classic bio location event.

Often cited alongside doppelganger lore.

It has been discussed by Robert Dale,
Owen, Camille Erian, and Alexander.

Ak.

Ak I, I don't know, but they're
all serious writers who treated

the account cautiously but
did not dismiss it outright.

Angela: The whole next shadow chats.

Everybody's gonna be Tom, Bob, Dave,

John: it's, yeah, it's gonna be like
CJ Run C Spot, jump, all that damn ri

Angela: weird names in the next one.

John: Alright, my take, what
gets me about this story is how

Undramatic she herself was about it.

She didn't claim power.

She, she didn't seek attention.

She didn't profit from it.

She just kept getting fired.

That's the part that
makes this unsettling.

If it were fraud, it's the worst
long, long con game in history.

No benefit, no vain, no
control over when it happens.

Just repeated.

Repeated social exile.

Angela: Oh man.

Again,

John: also touch the students
touching the double and

describing resistance like fabric.

That detail shows up in far more
modern accounts of apparitions,

which makes this feel uncomfortably
consistent across centuries.

Yeah.

Whether this was psychology perception
or something, we don't have a

language for one thing is clear,
she did not want this and whatever

followed her didn't give a shit.

Angela: No.

John: And that's way creepier than
a ghost that just rattles chains.

Angela: It's just the worst stalker ever.

John: I, so why do bio location
and doppelganger stories persist

across cultures and centuries and

Angela: because they say
everybody has a twin.

John: Yeah, but I never, first of all, I.
I've never really paid that much attention

to the whole Doppler gang or thing,
but that's how I understood it is you

had like an a, a twin out in the world.

Sometimes it's described as an evil twin.

Other times it's just a,
this does not fit that shit.

Angela: No, it doesn't.

John: And the whole bio location
thing, again, never really research

it, don't know a lot about it, but
it, I always thought that it was like

you could be obviously bio location.

You could be at two
locations at the same time.

But I've never heard it described as
like on two sides of a chalkboard.

Yeah.

In the same room,

Angela: same location.

Yeah.

John: You know, I've heard it described
as like, we know this person well

Angela: on the other side of the planet.

John: Yeah.

Like Padre Pio, he's a,
he's a Catholic saint.

Mm-hmm.

And he said that he would be in Italy at
the monastery and he would be appearing

to soldiers on the front in World War I.

Angela: Yeah.

John: At the same time, that was by
a location, the way I understood it.

Angela: Right.

John: This shit, I, but

Angela: I in the same room,

John: I've never heard no shit like this.

Ever.

Angela: No,

John: not ever.

Angela: Me either.

And I'm kind of upset with
myself for not knowing, because

this is right up my alley.

John: You have to be able to
say the names to know about it.

That's the problem.

Angela: And that's true.

John: Could group psychology
explain repeated long term

sightings by dozens of people?

I don't think there's any freaking,

Angela: I don't buy that at all.

Not every one of 'em has
a tumor in their head.

This shows 'em the same thing.

John: Well,

Angela: not every one of 'em.

Yeah, no.

John: Well, the thing of it is, is
if the story would've been one school

one time, then maybe you could,
you know, convince me that it was

like mass hysteria or something.

That shit exists.

Angela: Yeah.

John: And in children
it's even more pronounced.

Or like, like one kid says,
oh my guys, you see that?

And then everybody starts
scaring themselves and pretty

soon the whole bunch is like bri

Angela: poisoning.

They're

John: Yeah.

Like, yeah.

OT poisoning.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Something like that.

But.

This is, I mean, even her own family.

Angela: Yeah.

John: Who's like,

Angela: there's two, this

John: is freaking creepy.

Auntie's creeping me out.

Yeah.

Both of her.

Angela: Both of her.

Yeah.

John: I mean, uh, freaking No,
I, I don't blame the woman for

disappearing in Russia though.

So, something like this today, would
we diagnose it or would we monetize it?

Angela: We'd monetize it.

A

John: hundred percent.

Angela: Yep.

John: Yep.

Angela: Monetize it.

John: I don't know.

This one, this one is weird.

Angela: I kind of wanna dive in
a little bit more because I, I am

upset with myself for not knowing,

John: have at it.

'cause it's a freaking
interesting one I didn't like.

I never do, I didn't
research it all that much.

But this next one is a
little freaking bizarre too.

The Jim twins.

Two lives so identical.

It bordered on impossible.

Angela: Well, at least
Jim is easy to pronounce.

John: Yes.

Thank God.

My God.

This one shouldn't be bad 'cause it
happened in Ohio, so we should be good.

Alright, so the Jim twins were
identical twins separated at birth in

1940 and raised by different families
in Ohio when they were reunited.

Nearly four decades later, researchers
discovered that their lives had

unfolded in shockingly so similar ways.

Mm-hmm.

Down to names, marriages,
careers, habits, pets, vacations.

Even their children's names.

Their case became one of the most famous
examples of the nature versus versus

versus nurture debate, and remains one
of the most unsettling real world, real

world coincidences ever documented.

Mm-hmm.

So the story begins three
weeks after birth in 1940.

Identical twin boys were
put up for adoption.

Each was adopted by a different family,
one by the Lewises in Lima, Ohio, and the

other by the Springers in Piqua, Ohio.

The families ni, the families knew
their children had a twin, but

neither knew where the other boy
ended up by sheer coincidence or

something, stranger, both adopted
families named their sons James both.

Both boys grew up to be called Jim.

They were raised 40 miles apart,
never met, never communicated, and

had no knowledge of the others' lives.

And yet their biographies began
lining up in ways that defied

common sense as children.

Both had dogs named toy.

Both showed strengths
in math and woodworking.

Both struggled with spelling as adults.

The parallels became unnerving.

Both gems married twice.

First married women named Linda,
divorced, then married women named Betty.

Angela: Wow.

John: Named their sons, James Allen.

One spelled A-L-L-A-N because of
course it had to be slightly different.

Both smoked heavily, both drove
Corvettes, both worked in law

enforcement or security related jobs.

One was a security officer,
the other was a deputy sheriff.

Both took vacations to
the same beach in Florida.

None of this was known by either man
until Jim Lewis at age 37, decided

to search for his twin in 1977.

Angela: Oh, so he knew he had one?

John: Yeah.

Both families knew that they were twins,
but neither knew where the other ended up.

Angela: Okay.

Well, I heard you say family, but then I
thought, uh, you said they they'd be it

John: secret.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So no, the kids knew about each other.

Oh, okay.

And so he located court records in
Ohio and made contact after speaking

by phone, the twins finally met in
person on February 9th, 1979, at age 39.

The reunion stunned everyone,
including scientists.

The Jim Twins became a cornerstone
case for the University of Minnesota.

Twin study led by Thomas, by Dr.
Thomas Bouchard, which focused on

twins raised apart Researchers found
nearly identical medical histories,

strikingly similar brainwave patterns,
extremely close personality test results.

Their case reshaped how psychologists
and geneticists thought about inherited

traits versus environmental influences.

While no credible evidence supports
paranormal explanations, some

observers, including Jim Springer
himself, described an enduring sense

of emptiness before the reunion.

Fueling speculation about subconscious
or emotional twin connections.

My take.

This story messes with me more than
most paranormal cases because there's

no ghost, there's no light in the
sky, no haunted castle to blame.

It's just life lining up
with terrifying precision.

One, one coincidence, fine, two weird.

But when you stack names, marriages, kids,
pets, habits, vacations, and personalities

on top of each other, it stops feeling
random and starts feeling scripted.

And the scariest part is that neither
Jim knew any of this until adulthood.

They weren't copying each
other, they weren't influenced.

They just arrived at the same choices.

Angela: I'm 40 miles apart.

John: If this doesn't make you question,
how much free will you actually have?

I don't know.

What will?

No monsters, no hauntings, just
DNA, quietly running the show.

So.

How much of our personality is inherited
versus how much is shaped by experience?

Angela: I think a lot is inherited.

John: Yeah.

I mean, I don't know about the
whole nature versus nurture debate.

I really don't.

I like go back and forth on
it, and I probably always will.

Yeah.

But what I do know is there's
some weird shit with twins.

Mm-hmm.

Weird shit that cannot be
explained by DNA or anything else.

And then there's the whole
other part of that DNA.

It's like we all have different DNA.

Angela: Mm-hmm.

John: Except identical twins.

Angela: Yeah.

John: So if DNA is really what
is running, everything logically

computes that it, it would

Angela: run them the same.

John: Right.

Angela: Yeah.

John: But then even twins
that grow up knowing each

other and all that kinda shit.

Identical twins.

And there is a difference between the
identical twins and the non-internal.

Yeah.

Identical twins.

A lot of them have this
weird ass connection.

Like one gets sick, the other
feels it, one gets hurt.

The other feels it like one scared
the other scared like it's this,

uh, it's this like psyche Yeah.

Connection that they have.

And I don't think science has
ever come close to explaining it.

No.

Angela: And I don't think it will.

John: I don't wanna say
I don't think so either.

And, but it, it, it so normal.

It is so it happens so often that
I don't know if anybody actually

denies that it exists because

Angela: Yeah, I don't think

John: so.

I mean, it is just reoccurred
over and over and over.

I mean, this story, I

Angela: think it's just accepted

John: is a whole new level, but there
is a different connection between twins.

Identical twins than any other humans
in history and like on the planet.

Angela: I'm gonna be in trouble for
certain people hearing me say this, but

who was the guy that studied in Germany?

He studied Meg.

Meg something.

John: What did he do?

Angela: Studied twins in Germany.

I wanna say it was in Germany.

John: I don't know.

Angela: Crap.

John: I have no idea.

Angela: I'm sorry to the Google.

John: You had to do it quick
'cause we're about to the end.

Angela: Ah.

John: But at what point did
coincidence coincidences start

being stop being coincidences?

This is not coincidence.

There's, it's not no freaking way.

I mean, I, I will go through that one more
time because it is absolutely surreal.

I mean, the kids shit, whatever,
they named their dogs the same.

That's, you know, whatever.

But they both married twice and
both women had the same names.

How the hell do you, how
do you describe that?

Like, you're not, how do you do that?

You're not attracted to
somebody because of their name.

It's no who they are.

It's a person.

So it's not like you just decide, gosh, I
really wanna marry somebody named Linda.

And then once that falls apart,
you're like, well, that didn't work.

I think Betty, yeah, Betty is
a good one to marry and then

to name their sons the same

Angela: Mangola.

John: Oh, Mangola.

He was, he was a freaking Nazi.

Angela: Yeah.

Angel of death.

John: Yeah.

Angela: And he studied twins in Germany.

Yes.

John: Okay.

Yeah, when you were talking
about doctor, I was not thinking,

Angela: sorry,

John: him.

Angela: No, no.

John: But so anyway, I,
it's just so bizarre.

And if it happened today,
would people accept genetics

or look for something stranger?

Angela: I think there'd be a
lot of people on the fence.

John: I think if it happened today,
honestly, it would be more easily

discounted because social media,
because yeah, there is a possibility

that they could have found out about
each other as kids and started doing it

and connected with each other and been
like, Hey, let's carry this shit on.

People become millionaires out
of this somewhere, or whatever.

In the, I mean, we're talking
about you have a, growing up

in the forties and fifties.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They didn't have a means of
getting together and coming

up with this shit like,

Angela: yeah.

John: So I think today that would
be one of my first questions.

Very, very valid.

Go through their social media history.

I don't believe they, shit.

Angela: Yeah.

John: But I don't, I mean, when it comes
like this story, I, I don't, I don't know.

Angela: This is weird.

The Jim twins, are they still life?

John: I don't know.

I didn't see that.

But I mean, you know, very well could be.

They'd be, you know, in their eighties.

But you know, I mean,

Angela: I would like to talk to them.

John: Yeah.

Wouldn't it be interesting
and it'd be great.

And what a neat story that they
found each other, you know?

I mean, yeah, because like the one
said he felt like something was

missing and said he found his brother

Angela: because you'd think it should be.

John: It might've been, but it
was, it was covered by Ripley's

Angela: well,

John: because that's where I
got a lot of the information

is Ripley's, believe it or not.

So I know that it was
covered by Ripley's, so

Angela: I would love to sit
down and just hear stories.

John: Wouldn't it be fascinating?

Yes.

Like, yeah.

But like I said, what a happy ending.

They found each other and they found
each other young enough in life.

And like I said, I don't know if they, how
long they lived or if they're still alive.

I don't, I don't know.

But.

At least they were like in
their thirties, so they had

Angela: Yeah.

John: You know, and they were relatively
young and could get to know each other and

Angela: I don't know.

It's just in family reunions though.

Jim What?

Alan what?

Right.

Just Betty.

But I know you'd have to number 'em.

John: Everybody would've
to have a nickname.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alright, well that's all I
put together for us tonight.

All right, so you got anything to add?

Angela: I don't.

John: All right.

Angela: I don't actually.

John: Okay.

Well, if you like what we do and how
we do, I want to remind you about

our Adoptive Victim program, the Dark
Dialogue Collective, both of which

can be [e-mail].

Also, you know, read and share our
victim stories at that same website.

Support the show you can.

You can take advantage of members only
perks and direct [e-mail],

coffee.com, and at substack if you
want to contact us for any reason,

critiques, kudos, any of that shit, Casey.

All of it.

You can do that at [e-mail].

Be sure to like the show,
share the show le the review.

Hit the like button.

Hit the share.

Hit the hit the bell.

Hit every hit.

Just hit everything.

Angela: Hit legally.

John: Be sure to check out all of our
other shows on the Dark Dialogue Network.

All that information can
be found on our website.

Again, dark dialogue.com.

And if you have nothing else,

Angela: I'm just trying to find out how
many shows before you can say all of

that in one breath, because it feels
like that's what you're attempting to do.

John: I don't know.

I think two or three more maybe.

Angela: Okay.

John: We'll go for two or three more.

Okay.

Yeah,

Angela: that's all I got.

Anything else?

Nope, that's all I got.

John: Okay.

Well, with that being said, I hope
you all have a wonderful night

Angela: and be safe.