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On this episode of The Chicks in Construction, hosts Mikki Paradis and Jessica Abreu discuss how scammers exploit stress and access to personal information, including a story of a woman in the Raleigh area who was tricked by a caller ID–spoofed “Wake County Sheriff’s Office” into paying $4,000 to “buy out” a fake warrant. They explain why law enforcement doesn’t collect payments over the phone and advise hanging up and calling the non-emergency number directly. The conversation then shifts to an Arizona luxury pool contractor situation where homeowners paid large deposits for $80,000–$200,000 backyard projects that stalled, leaving unsafe excavation pits and unfinished work. They outline red flags like massive upfront deposits, loss of momentum, vague delays, and misleading social media, and recommend protections such as milestone-based payments, verifying suppliers, checking licensing/standing, and cutting losses early.
00:00 Contractor Scam Reality Check
00:31 Meet The Hosts And Mission
01:27 Jury Duty Sheriff Scam
04:37 Dark Web And Number Cloning
09:04 How The Scam Extracts Money
12:40 Aftermath And Safety Tips
20:22 Share Your Horror Stories
21:51 Arizona Luxury Pool Nightmare
25:52 Deposits Paid Then The Collapse
27:43 Pool Build Nightmare
28:43 Cashflow Collapse Explained
30:44 Upfront Deposit Red Flags
33:15 Permits Inspections Pushback
37:06 Branding Can Be Fake
40:06 Momentum Stalls and Demo Trap
45:17 No Crew Means No Pay
48:05 Protect Yourself With Milestones
51:43 References Research and Reality
56:09 Final Lessons and Call In
Creators and Guests
Host
Jessica Abreu
As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.
Host
Mikki Paradis
President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.
What is Chicks in Construction?
You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.
From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.
The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.
After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.
Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/
51 Chicks in Construction
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Mikki: [00:00:00] major issue with a lot of these situations that, that we share with you guys on the pod is- Mm-hmm
these people don't have money. They don't have access to money, and so the scam, they have to go find somebody else to get on the hook to get anywhere. And then eventually there's a cutoff point where it just doesn't make any more sense to keep putting the money, 'cause they have no plan to actually complete your project.
So that's something that, you know, how, how are you to know? As the homeowner, how are you to know? Well, hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Chicks in Construction. I'm your host, Miki Paradise. This is my illustrious cohost.
Jessica: Hi, I'm Jessica Abram.
Mikki: And listen, this podcast is a podcast that exists to help homeowners not get screwed over by contractors. Mm-hmm. All kinds of contractors. General contractors, licensed contractors, unlicensed contractors, plumbers, a Chuck in a truck, a roofer, a random guy who says that he can turn your powder, your, your [00:01:00] closet into a powder room.
All of these things qualify you to end up on the show. we've been evolving our podcast skills. Mm-hmm. And one thing I realized is we do need to start the show off by explaining what the hell- What we are and what
Jessica: we do ...
Mikki: we'd, we'd be doing here. So there we go, I did it. Check, check that right off the, the box.
Um, we were just talking about this before we pressed... We did not press the record. No. We have a studio goddess today, and she pressed the record button. Yes. But we were talking about this, 'cause last week when we recorded- Mm-hmm ... studio god, Joe, was telling us how he got a call from somebody- Mm-hmm
claiming to be a sheriff. Yep. That he had failed to, uh, show up at jury duty. And he was like, he had fell for it at first, and then was like, "Wait a second." Mm. So he, like, as this dude is, like, trying to tell him that he's about to be arrested for not getting, showing up- Yeah, 'cause
Jessica: there's a warrant out for him
Mikki: there's a warrant out for your arrest for not showing up for jury duty. Which, listen, I probably should've done [00:02:00] some research before you started talking about this so I could give you really accurate information, but I do not believe- They do not call you ... that you, uh, get a, get a heads-up that you're about to be arrested.
Jessica: No, they just show up at your door
Mikki: if you're gonna get- I've never been arrested. Yet. Knock on the wood. Okay. But I don't, like, from every Law & Order episode that I've watched- Mm-hmm ... that they do not call you to let you know you're about to be arrested. I also don't think you can get hardcore arrested like that for a jury duty oopsie-oopsie.
You
Jessica: do get in trouble.
Mikki: You can get in trouble, but I believe they kind of serve you a summons. Mm. Like, a sheriff will come to your door and be like, "Hey. You, you missed jury duty. You, here's a summons." And if you're, if you're not watching and you're listening, I'm doing a weird thing with my hand right now.
Nobody knows what it is. Uh-
Jessica: She's serving up something.
Mikki: I'm serving up a lot of ridiculousness. Yes. So that's happening.
Jessica: There we go.
Mikki: Um, so yeah, like, that is not a thing. So, um, sh- Joe shared that [00:03:00] story, and then we, we, we did our little chitty chat about scams- Mm-hmm ... because people be scamming. And I feel like the, the worst part about the scam economy is the worse the economy gets-
Jessica: The more they're out there
the
Mikki: more the scams- Mm-hmm ... kinda step their game up, which is really horrible on a lot of levels. But it's like people are really struggling to pay their bills, so we're stepping the scams up. Like, come on. The humanity of it all. So Jess sent me a message of, I guess, something she found on one of, one of the interwebs.
The interwebs. One of, one of the, the Facebook groups that she's- Mm-hmm ... she's always involved in, 'cause she's, um, much better at social media than I am.
Jessica: That's what they pay me for.
Mikki: That's literally her job. Um, and it was this girl who... 'Cause like, so, so Joe was telling us a story, and he figured out, like he literally just ran it through ChatGPT, and was like, "Oh, this is a scam."
Mm-hmm. And he was like, "Okay, thank you. Bye," and just hung up. So we didn't know kind of like, he was like, they didn't ask for money up front. Like-
Jessica: Right ...
Mikki: he was [00:04:00] just like, I, I- Mm ... they said they were gonna, I was gonna be arrested, that I needed to turn myself in. So, um, Jess sends me this message, and I could not believe...
It makes me so genuinely sad. So Um,
Jessica: so she, they had her home address that was in Michigan. Yeah. So she recently moved to the Raleigh area.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: She is from Michigan, and the person on the phone knew all of her addresses and her information.
Mikki: They even went so far to have known her parents' address. Like, they knew her first, middle, and last name.
And here's the thing. Um, unfortunately, I've never been on the dark web. I think I would, I would like to go on the dark web. I don't even know how to find the dark web. I thought my incognito tab on, on Chrome- ... was the dark web because it was, in fact, a dark color. Dark. I was like, "I'm on the dark web right now."
Jessica: You are so pretty.
Mikki: I [00:05:00] am. I'm pretty, but smart? Questions. Questions.
Jessica: In certain areas, yes.
Mikki: Yeah. In this- When it comes to drywall, watch out. When it comes to knowing how the internet works, meh. So, so I, unfortunately, like, the amount of information that exists on the dark, dark web is wild. Mm-hmm. Um, I get... I have so many security things because my entire life is on the dark web.
And I have, like, a whole dark monitoring, dark web monitoring- Oh, wow ... and it's constantly letting me know that everything that is known about me to, like-
Jessica: Oh, close friends- ... close friends- ... is out there ...
Mikki: 100% on the dark web. So-
Jessica: It's out there. And I know it's there- Just 'cause I get phone calls-
Mikki: Yeah ...
Jessica: from, so my phone number is still a Rhode Island phone number.
Mikki: Oh.
Jessica: So I still get phone calls from people in, from, like, 401 numbers.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: And they, I was like, "No, I don't." They're like, "Oh yeah, you have such and such [00:06:00] and..." I was like, "Nope." Don't live there. "Not me." Yeah. "Don't live there." Nice
Mikki: try.
Jessica: Nope. Or they, or they call me by my maiden name. I love that because I have disowned my family, so.
Mikki: You're like, "Nice try."
Jessica: I'm like, "I know you know nothing."
Mikki: See, and that's the, that, that's the thing is, like, a lot of people get thrown off by how much information that they have on you- Mm-hmm ... which can be sourced very easily on the dark web. And so this woman was really, she k- she really fell for it because they had so much information on her.
Mm-hmm. And then, like, and the other thing too was, and listen, I wanna talk about one of the worst times of my life, and this sounds ridiculous, but it's the truth. Th- scammers can, can dupe a number or, or clone a number. They can clone a number. And so I was, I was working on a job, and I started getting all these phone calls.
And I would answer the phone, and they'd be like, "Stop calling me." And I was [00:07:00] like, "What are you talking about?" Um, so apparently a scammer had do- had, had cloned my number-
Jessica: Oh, my God ...
Mikki: and was calling people, and my name and number was showing up on their caller ID.
Jessica: That's great.
Mikki: So I literally had to change my voicemail-
Jessica: To say-
to
Mikki: say, "Hey, listen, if you're calling to yell at me because my, my phone number has called you nine million times or tried to scam you or whatever it is, I'm really sorry. My phone number has been hacked." Mm-hmm. "It was not me. I have already reported it." Like, there- Oh, my God ... there's a police report on file about it.
I'm really sorry. Please don't leave me a message screaming into my voicemail. It was not me that called you.
Jessica: I didn't do it. Don't get mad at me. This one guy-
Mikki: Don't shoot ... I'll never forget. He was like, "I'm coming to your house, and I have your address because I looked you up." And I was like, "Okay, we need to have better security."
Jessica: We need to get Optimus Prime to actually be [00:08:00] a guard dog. To actually
Mikki: be a guard dog, and he's like, "Mm, no. I'm gonna take a nap, though." So that, like, in this case, this lady had, they, they had all of this lady's information. Um, and they, as s- she says, "They were not asking for money at first. I told them that I don't reside in Michigan, that I'm not sure what to do.
They said that they would transfer me to Wake County Sheriff's Office." So this is the thing. They duped or cloned or- Mm-hmm ... whatever the term is, the Wake County, their sheriff's office phone number and called her from what looked like, it- The sheriff ... popped up on her caller ID as the sheriff's, and she checked it, and it was the same number.
So I totally get why th- this would get you.
Jessica: Mm-hmm. '
Mikki: Cause, like, you think about it, like, y- you, you, you check all the things- Mm-hmm ... and it all kinda lines up, and then your freaking stress- Yeah ... your cortisol spikes.
Jessica: The best thing to do at that point would be like, "I'm sorry, I'm busy. Let me call you right back."
You hang up and call the number because then the sheriff's office- She's 100% right ... is [00:09:00] gonna be like, "
Mikki: I'm
Jessica: sorry, ma'am. No, we did not do
Mikki: that." That's a scam. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so here's, here's the thing One, they rely on stressing you out- Mm-hmm ... spiking your, your, the adrenaline in your body. So you're kind of thinking like caveman brain.
You're like lizard brain mode. You're not thinking about like, "Oh, wait, this doesn't sound right." Mm-hmm. So they told her if she hung the phone up that, that... What, what, what are the, what was the threat with the hanging up? "So the phone number they called me from-"
Jessica: They were gonna have the cops- Was- Oh, "If I hung up on them, there are cops on standby waiting to arrest me a few miles away from the house."
Y-
Mikki: which now, 'cause we're not in, you know, highly spiked- Right ... stress hormone- Mm-hmm ... we're like, "That's nonsense." Like- Right ... listen, I understand that cops sometimes be getting cats out of trees- Mm-hmm ... but I don't think they're just waiting
Jessica: around like- They're not waiting around the
Mikki: corner ... on standby. But, again, [00:10:00] th- that's the purpose.
Unless they're SWAT. Yeah. I'm just like, I don't know. So that's the purpose. Mm-hmm. Like, they're trying to freak you out. They're tr- And, and they know if you hang the phone up and you call that sheriff's number back, they know that the sheriff's gonna be like, "Listen, it's not real."
Jessica: Right.
Mikki: So they're, they're making it s- like stressing you out to the point of like pure panic.
Jessica: And that's when they ask for money.
Mikki: Yes. So-
Jessica: That's when they read her her rights, which is why all-
Mikki: Y'all, can you even imagine?
Jessica: They... And like that's something else that they don't do over the phone. They ne- But anyway, they read her her rights and said that she had the option to be arrested for the weekend or that she could buy out her warrant for $4,000.
So that's where they're finally getting the money.
Mikki: I feel like we all know, we, we all know where I would've gone with that. Right. I'd be like, "Come and get me 'cause on Three Hots and a Cot I've been talking about it." So, yeah. I'm like, "So I can just take the weekend off?" Off. Okay.
Jessica: And nobody can get in touch with me?
This sounds like [00:11:00] vacation.
Mikki: Like that is one hell of a retreat.
Jessica: Yep. And then they've had her on the phone for an hour, and when she started to get emotional, they told her to knock it off, that she wasn't being compliant
Mikki: Y'all, I can't... This whole story is, like, what is happening in the world? Mm-hmm. So she did not, she was, she's apparently, like, 25.
She worked in the service industry. Mm-hmm,
Jessica: and she didn't have that money.
Mikki: She just moved to North Carolina. She said the only money that she had was to pay her rent and her, her, like- Electric and gas ... her electric and her gas. And they were like, "Well, you need to give us that money or be arrested." Mm-hmm.
So sh- even with all of the money she had, she did not have the $4,000, and they encouraged her to reach out to friends and family to borrow the rest of the money, which she did. And then apparently, once she s- She didn't say how she sent the money or, like, what form of payment they accepted, 'cause I feel like a lot of times that...[00:12:00]
Listen, anybody in law enforcement saying, "We'll take payment over the phone"- Lie ... run, don't walk. That is not a
Jessica: thing. I'm guessing she probably Zelle'd them money. It
Mikki: had to have been, like, Cash App- Cash App ... or something like that. Yeah. So after she paid them the money, then they started, like, v- like, being a, like really abusive to her.
Verbally abusive. Verbally abusive and, like, even, like, sexually. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know how that works over the phone.
Jessica: Calling me derogatory names and being verbally, sexually violent. I was like, "Ugh." Ah. At, I mean, at that point she-
Mikki: So I think at that point is when she knew that-
Jessica: Oh ...
Mikki: it had gone sideways.
So we're telling you this not because it has anything to do with construction, but because I think, like, our algorithms are, like, because we talk about scams- These scams ... on the podcast, like, it falls under the scam. So we want you guys to know, like-
Jessica: Be safe out there ...
Mikki: risk getting arrested over paying a scammer [00:13:00] $4,000 of money that you don't have.
Like- Mm ... I think the move is, "Okay, well, you know where I live. I'll be there. Come arrest me. I, I don't mind spending the weekend in jail." That's the move.
Jessica: Sounds like a vacation.
Mikki: And if it's real, then you spend the weekend in jail. Lessons were learned. If not-
Jessica: Well, you could probably- ... you keep your money ... pay them when they come to get y- like-
Mikki: I don't, y'all, I just-
Jessica: It just doesn't make any sense
Mikki: sheriffs don't accept payment unless they shady and they're taking bribes. Mm-hmm. Like, that's just not... Again, I, I do, knocking on all the wood, have a limited amount of experience with, like, dealing with sheriffs. But the, the times that I have, it was, there was never, like, an exchange of money. It was like, "Hey, this is what's going on."
"Okay, thanks for letting me know." Yeah. Like, one time, this is funny, my sister is seven years younger than me.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: Which, which led to, to some spicy situations for me, because I [00:14:00] was the older one. Mm-hmm. So I- years a- probably a millennia ago, I took her to a Christina Aguilera concert at the PNC or whatever the hell it's called now Center, and there was this woman in front of us with this lion's mane of hair, and she was wasted.
I mean, this woman was three sheets to the wind drunk, and she's whipping her hair around. Ah. And it got in my sister's mouth I don't even blame my sister for popping off. Like, she touch- she r- she tapped on the lady's shoulder and she was like, "Ma'am, you need to control your hair. It just got in my mouth, and if it happens again, I'm gonna rip it out."
So what does the lady do?
Jessica: She does it again.
Mikki: No. She turns around and punches me in the face.
Why? I'm just sitting there, 'cause she was so drunk.
Jessica: She probably thought she was getting your sister. She thought it
Mikki: was me.
Jessica: Oh.
Mikki: So she just pops me right in the [00:15:00] face. I immediately go and get the security. She's gets removed, and she is livid. So she's there with her boyfriend and her daughter, and she is hot.
"How dare... I didn't do anything." Homegirl, I'm like b- blee- bloody nose, like the whole thing, and, uh, sh- the cops were like, "You need to go file a report." So yeah, in the moment, I was hella pissed, but it was like, whatever. Everybody gets punched in the mouth from time to time. It happens. I
Jessica: had just let it go. I have never been punched in the mouth.
Thank you. Yeah.
Mikki: It's funny. The only time I actually get hit in the mouth, it wasn't even this mouth that was running. Yeah. It was like, what are the odds of that? 'Cause listen, I be running my mouth on the reg. Uh-huh. But so I just let it go. It was like, whatever. So about a two weeks later, a sheriff shows up at my door, and they're like, "This is, um, we're serving you with f- somebody claimed that you hit them."
I was like, "What?" I was like, "Well-"
Jessica: So she-
Mikki: So she went... Somebody told her if- [00:16:00] To go ... like, to go before I went- Oh ... and claim that I hit her instead of me hitting her, or instead of her hitting me.
Jessica: Yes, because usually the person that gets hit gets taking out by security.
Mikki: Right. Right. That
Jessica: makes sense. Right. That tracks.
Okay.
Mikki: So, um, I was... But it wasn't like I got arrested. So, like, this does wrap to the, to the point of like this was a potential assault charge that they were like, "Here, show up in court this day." But, like, a sheriff did serve the, the document. So it was funny. I had to go hire a defense attorney, which cost a freaking boatload of money.
And I had done... This was back in the day where the intranets were a little limited. Mm-hmm. Like, we didn't have ChatGPT. We didn't have Claude working on our side. We
Jessica: barely had Google.
Mikki: We barely had Google. But I went on a deep dive. Mm. And it turns out that this woman, when she went to file the charges against me-
Jessica: Mm-hmm
Mikki: gave the wrong, she did not give her [00:17:00] real name, which is a felony. It is a felony. Why didn't she
Jessica: put her real name on there?
Mikki: I'm assuming because she had felonies.
Jessica: Oh.
Mikki: Yeah, like she had a record. That's great. So she goes in- Quality
Jessica: human being ...
Mikki: she, she goes to the magistrate's office, claims that I hit her, and gives a fake name.
So we go to court, and my attorney goes to the DA and is like, "Listen" We believe that your, your c- this woman- Mm-hmm ... who was, who was in court that day, gave a fa- a false name. And if that's the case, we want charges pressed against her.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: And, like, so, so the DA is like, you could not... Like, somebody could not roll their eyes any harder.
Like, he was just like, "Ugh."
Jessica: So wait, had you filed a police report against her? No, I never did. Oh, you never did. I just,
Mikki: like- 'Cause you
Jessica: were just
Mikki: like, whatever ... I was just like, "Whatever. I caught one in the mouth. It happens from time to time." Like, -I was just... I honestly didn't have time for it, so I was like, whatever.
I wasn't mad about it.
Jessica: Yeah, you're not gonna miss this.
Mikki: I was pissed about getting accused of hitting her when, like, I was just minding my own business when I got punched in the mouth. But so the [00:18:00] DA goes up to her and is like, "Ma'am, what is your name?" And she gives the false name. And he goes, "Let me, let me re- it is a literal felony to lie to an officer of the court.
I'm gonna ask you one more time, what is your real name?" And she tells the real name, and he goes, he was just like, "Do you realize you could go to prison for lying like this? And that now that you have lied about your name- Mm ... no one is taking the assault charges seriously." So he was like, "You can either drop the charges or you're going to jail."
And she- Dropped ... was so mad. Like, the fit that she threw in court, and I was like, "But I'm the criminal?"
Jessica: But like, so like, what was she expecting to get out of it? So she says that you hit her. Was she claiming damages?
Mikki: Is- No, she was just, it... The criminal charges. Like, she was- She just wanted you- ... trying to get me charged- Mm
with a, with the crime of assault. Crazy. And I was like, never went to a Christina Aguilera concert again [00:19:00] in, in all the days- I mean- ... of my life. So with that said, guys, the point is, obviously we do, like, a little chitty chat before we get into our home owner horror stories. I was accused of assault and still did not get a call saying that I was going to be arrested.
Jessica: Right.
Mikki: So- They
Jessica: just show up ...
Mikki: if you guys ever get a call and somebody's claiming that they have an arrest warrant for you or that you missed jury duty or whatever it is, just hang the phone up and call your local off- l- l- the, the non-emergency police department and kind of tell them about it. Let them know.
Let them look into it. Mm-hmm. I think that's the safe move, because this lady lost $4,000, and 1,000 of it was borrowed money. So I, I don't wanna see you guys put in that situation. No. And apparently, the scams are picking up. They're at 100, so we don't want to- you to see that, that to happen to you. So listen, when I got, when I found this story today, I was like, "Is [00:20:00] this my neighbor?"
'Cause it's about a
Jessica: pool. I mean, it's so close.
Mikki: I know. It's
Jessica: just the wrong state, but okay.
Mikki: It is the wrong state, but it's about a bad pool situation. And, uh, the more I was reading it, I was like, "Could this be my neighbor?" It's not, but delightful nonetheless. Um, so yeah, we're gonna get into it. Um, oh, also, before we do that- We would love it if you guys have a story, if you could share it.
It helps us educate everybody about all these different little scams. And some of, somebody was saying, like, "Oh, all the scams," or, "All these, like, little stories really are starting to sound the same." And while that is very true, because one, nobody is calling this stuff out. Nobody is saying, "Hey, this is not real.
This is not, this is not... This is a fallacy." Mm-hmm. Nobody's calling that out. So it's a scam that people have been using and getting away with-
Jessica: Right ...
Mikki: for a millennia. So yes, they all sound the [00:21:00] same because they don't need to evolve their scam because nobody is calling it out and saying, "Hey, that's not real.
That's not how that works." So a lotta times they do sound the same, but every episode has, like, something new, has, like- Mm-hmm ... every story has, like, this unique twist. And the more you guys can share your stories, the more we can share that with other people. Because as we have discussed, learning the hard way is overrated.
Is overrated. And we don't want that for you. So if you would not mind, if you have a j- a juicy story that you want aired, you want somebody's dirty laundry aired out on this podcast, we're gonna change names, but we're gonna air out that laundry, okay? We're here for your venting session.
ChicksInConstruction.com. You just scroll down. There's a form. You can go in there, fill it out. And I... It just helps us educate people- Mm-hmm ... so less people have the same experience. That's at least what our goal is. So in this case, um, so imagine spending over [00:22:00] $100,000 to build the backyard you've always dreamed about, a luxury pool, an outdoor kitchen, fire features, which yes, I'm here for it.
Mm-hmm. A place where your family can gather for years. Now imagine walking outside one morning and realizing your backyard isn't a paradise. It's a construction graveyard, a giant hole in the ground, exposed pipes, broken concrete, and a contractor who's stopped answering the phone, because for multiple Arizona homeowners, that's exactly what happened.
Jessica: That's crazy.
Mikki: I know. I can- I can... I was reading this and I was like, did they move from Arizona to Raleigh, North Carolina? Is this my neighbor?
So today's story is one, um, a lot of homeowners are going to relate to because outdoor living projects are exploding right now, and unfortunately so are the construction disasters. Mm-hmm. So the [00:23:00] dream sale. Homeowners across Arizona hired what appeared to be a legitimate luxury pool contractor. The sale, sales process looked polished, beautiful renderings, luxury branding, social media filled with dream backyards.
Mm-hmm. The contractors promised fast timelines, premium craftsmanship, and r- resort style outdoor spaces. The homeowners started signing contracts. Many projects ranged from 80,000 to $200,000.
Jessica: Listen, if my backyard costs $200,000- ... that, that's not just a backyard. More than my house. That, that's a fin- a big financial investment.
And like when we lived up north, we put in a huge, huge in-ground saltwater pool. Look at you guys. Gunnite, huge patio. It was, it took up our entire backyard.
Mikki: Yes.
Jessica: And it was like a custom size 'cause we're like, "Fit as much pool as you can in this area."
Mikki: Yeah, we want all the pool. Sans the grass. [00:24:00] Yeah. All the pool.
Jessica: And I don't wanna mow. So-
Mikki: You hate mowing ...
Jessica: I mean, they did, they did make it a little bit too deep. They didn't tell us that They had to, like, it had to be a s- a little slope grade Yeah, you have to have
Mikki: a gradual slope.
Jessica: Uh, when we said it, we wanted, like, it to come and then just, like, slope. Just like-
Mikki: Oh
Jessica: you know, like the traditional in-ground pools. It's like three feet for a little bit and then it slopes down. Yeah. But because we weren't going super deep, that kind of gradual-
Mikki: Oh ...
Jessica: it needed to be more gradual.
Mikki: You need to water. Okay. You didn't have the space for, like, a...
Jessica: Right.
Mikki: Okay. Got it.
Jessica: So it went s- and my husband is tall, and he didn't want- He is tall
it to be, like, it coming to his waist, so.
Mikki: He don't wanna be, like, lounging through the water.
Jessica: Yeah.
Mikki: Like, wading, if
Jessica: you will. Wading. But, um, because they didn't tell us that, it started at, we wanted it to start at four and end at six.
Mikki: Okay.
Jessica: It started at, like, four and a half, and then ended at, like, seven. [00:25:00]
Mikki: Oh, okay.
Jessica: Which with little kids- They were like, "
Mikki: Go ahead, Brad. Jump right into that."
Jessica: Yeah, with little ki- Even my son at the time, he was 10, and he was like, "Okay."
Mikki: He's like, "I can't touch the ground." Wow. Okay.
Jessica: Yep. But, like, to redo it, it was like...
Mikki: $9 billion ...
Jessica: they're like, "Well, we have to put the cement in to fill it up."
Mikki: Oh. "
Jessica: Grade it again, and then spray the gunite." And we're like, "No, just leave it as it is." Yeah. We made the best of it.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: It had five huge steps going into it, so. Oh. The kids just stayed on the steps.
Mikki: Fair enough.
Jessica: But anyway, I'm sorry. No, you're good. But even that, even that didn't cost-
Mikki: Jess has her own story
didn't cost- Didn't even cost $200,000?
Jessica: No. Not even
Mikki: close. Which is impressive. Really? Wow. That was the time to be alive.
Jessica: Well, I mean, it was, like- That was pre-COVID ... 15 years ago.
Mikki: That, that was when things were more affordable.
Jessica: Yes. Now they are not. Now if, if I wanted the same pool, it would cost me $200,000.
Mikki: It's crazy. So, so the money started flowing. Homeowners began paying deposits, large deposits. Mm. Excavation started, concrete forms [00:26:00] appeared, plumbing was installed. At first, everything looked normal.
Jessica: So nobody thought that they were being scammed.
Mikki: No. And it wasn't, um, a guy disappearing immediately, so it looked really real at first.
Jessica: Mm-mm.
Mikki: Um, so then th- th- this, this part of the, the script is called the collapse. So then things started slowing down. Crews stopped showing up consistently. Mm. Materials were delayed, communication got worse, and eventually projects stopped entirely. Some homeowners were left with giant excavation pits, which I can't even imagine.
Like, just a giant hole in your backyard. No. Unfinished gunite shells.
Jessica: Which I don't understand.
Mikki: I, I, n- not at all. Exposed plumbing, broken decking And dangerous backyard conditions, which all of that sounds like 100% my dogs are jumping headfirst into that pool.
Jessica: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: And we're, into the [00:27:00] hole, the hole that the pool was supposed to go in.
They're gonna roll around in the mud, and they're gonna come right back to the door and be like, "What?
Jessica: What?" But they won't be able to get out.
Mikki: Yeah, that's, that's the other-
Jessica: That-
Mikki: Getting
Jessica: out ... getting out is questionable.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: Um. Yeah. Yeah, so that's really, really, really horrible, especially in Arizona, where people use- Yeah
their outdoor space year-round. Yeah. It's not like-
Mikki: Yeah, it's not just, like, seasonal here, which
Jessica: is- I mean, it's-
Mikki: I cannot tell you guys the extent to which I am stalking my neighbor's pool crisis, because it is a lot. So the other day I was talking to Hector, and he goes, "We've gone through two summers, and they still don't have a pool."
And I
Jessica: was like- Oh, my God ... the
Mikki: fact that Hector is paying attention to the neighbor's pool situation-
Jessica: That's terrible ...
Mikki: it's, you know it's out of control 'cause Hector's like, he don't mi- he minds his own business. I'm nosy, but he was like, "It's been two summers and still no pool." So-
Jessica: You know it's bad.
Mikki: You know it's bad when Hector's, like, clocking it.
Jessica: Mm-mm.
Mikki: So one homeowner reportedly [00:28:00] spent nearly a year looking at a fenced-off construction pit behind their home.
Jessica: My gosh. So these people are all in a financial nightmare.
Mikki: Mm.
Jessica: And the scary part is that people are still paying these people- Oh, my God ... while this is happening. So, like, one set of people are in this crapshoot-
Mikki: Yeah
Jessica: with half-done project, and more people are signing on- Getting signed
Mikki: up, yep ...
Jessica: to, to have these people do their pool.
Mikki: Exactly. Some homeowners had financing payments, HOA issues, unsafe conditions, and property value concerns. And now they had to hire a new contractor to finish their repair work. Mm-mm. So why i- why this happens, um- This is where homeowners need to understand something really important.
A lot of pool companies operate on cashflow, meaning today's deposit funds yesterday's project. In my neck of the woods, we call that [00:29:00] robbing Peter to pay Paul. Mm-hmm. Like, and I'm... Like, and not saying, to say that it doesn't happen in, in, like, all areas of construction. Like, even from our general contractors, they'll, you know, say, "Okay, well, your payment's a little bit delayed because we're waiting on such and such, and then you'll, you'll get it on time."
You go, "I, I thought it was delayed." "Oh, yeah, we got paid on another job." So they'll use funds from wherever to pay whoever, and I get that. But for smaller companies, it's a little concerning because it, it means you don't have access to capital. You don't have a credit line. Mm-hmm. You don't have access to cashflow, like, or l- or lending to help you get from one job to the other without having to take money here to pay it over there.
So it's something
Jessica: to
Mikki: pay attention to. And
then,
Jessica: like, the last person that pays, what ends up happening there?
Mikki: Yeah. I mean, and 100%, 'cause, like, if there's nobody coming after them, then there's nobody to pay for the work that you have going on at your house. Right. And so that... Honestly, that is a major issue with a lot of these [00:30:00] situations that, that we share with you guys on the pod is- Mm-hmm
these people don't have money. They don't have access to money, and so the scam, they have to go find somebody else to get on the hook to get anywhere. And then eventually there's a cutoff point where it just doesn't make any more sense to keep putting the money, 'cause they have no plan to actually complete your project.
So that's something that, you know, how, how are you to know? As the homeowner, how are you to know? So, and it, it's one of those things you find out later, and it's like, oh, well, this is really, this would've- Mm-hmm ... been helpful to know beforehand. So, um, so th- today's deposit funds yesterday's project, and when the sales slow down, the money gets mismanaged and everything collapses.
So let's talk about some of these red flags. Um, massive upfront deposits. Luxury pool projects require deposits, which isn't uncommon.
Jessica: No.
Mikki: But massive deposits, like, we've talked about this, and this is the hill that I will absolutely die on. [00:31:00] I don't care what it is, a 20% deposit should be sufficient. Now, there are certain things where I will budge a little bit if you're ordering something custom or, like, we did a project where we had to order the cabinets.
Like, we ordered the cabinets af- right after we went under contract 'cause it was gonna take, like, 16 weeks- Mm-hmm ... for these cabinets to be built. Oh, God. It was freaking wild. So yeah, like, the, and they, it was, it was custom cabinetry, so they were like, "Yeah, we're not even gonna start producing these orders until you've paid in full for the cabinets."
Mm-hmm. But what we had, what we did was we had the customer go ahead and just contact them. We were like, "Here, this is your order number. Like, go ahead and pay it." So it wasn't like, no matter what happened with us, those cabinets belonged to that customer. Homeowner, yep. They were theirs. They paid for them.
Mm-hmm. They did the order. So it was one of those things where I don't consider that to be a, like, count towards the deposit.
Jessica: True.
Mikki: If y- orders, s- supply, supplies need to [00:32:00] be ordered, some things are special order. If you're going on that special order side, yes, there's, the, the rules change a little bit. But A pool is, is a lot of raw materials.
It, there's not a whole lot of custom ordering. So unless you're going crazy, a 20% deposit suffices. And I'm sure a, like listen, we've... If you go on our TikTok or our Instagram and you go click on any of our reels
Jessica: Any of
Mikki: them. There is a guy who does not watch the podcast. He just gets served up these reels, which I really feel like social media is just rage-baiting these dudes.
Jessica: A little bit.
Mikki: Like, they show us, they show them their, our content just to piss these dudes off.
Jessica: And I may or may not be selecting the, the reels to, to put on there that do-
Mikki: Yeah, I mean, the, we're,
Jessica: it- ... make them just a little, a little spicy.
Mikki: It's not, it's not... Like, listen, [00:33:00] do I like to piss people off? I'm not gonna lie to your beautiful faces.
Of course I do. I, I'm a contractor and I'm an asshole, so I'm all the things. Do I enjoy pissing people off? Yeah. But, like, we're just telling the truth.
Joe Woolworth: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: We're just saying, "Hey, homeowner, these are the things that are happening that, that aren't your responsibility," or, "These are the things that should be happening."
The, the amount of people that get, get upset over us telling homeowners that they need to have permits and inspections, the amount of people who lose their mind over that-
Jessica: Wild ...
Mikki: is concern- It's just like, this is the law. You're mad at me for informing our audience of the law. Mm. Just because you don't wanna follow it or you don't agree with the law, like, by all means, disagree with the law.
But we are informing our audience of what the law is. And the other one is informing our audience and, listen, fight me, I've been waiting for somebody to go to chicksinconstruction.com and [00:34:00] share their story about how an inspection failed was a homeowner's responsibility. I've been waiting on this story.
Jessica: Been waiting for it.
Mikki: I, and yet, I just- It's- I keep checking the email and I'm not getting- Nope ... any stories about how you're explaining in detail how a failed inspection was somehow the homeowner's fault, and therefore, the homeowner should pay for it. So that is one of the reoccurring themes that's happening in a lot of the stories we're getting.
Mm-hmm. Is somebody fails an inspection, and all of a suddenly, that, the cost to fix the failed inspection gets put on the homeowner. Mm-hmm. And what we say is absolutely not.
Jessica: No.
Mikki: It is absolutely not your home, your job as the re- No ... the, the homeowner to pay for incorrectly done work. It's just not. And-
Jessica: We're just not gonna do it
Mikki: we're just not doing it. And there's a lot of tactics that they use to get you to feel like, "Well, if I don't pay it, then my house is gonna stay in this place of disarray." And here's the thing, y'all It, it's gonna cost you now or [00:35:00] cost you later. I- if, if, if a contractor has such little integrity that they have done the work improperly and have failed an inspection, and are then turning around to you, the homeowner, and saying, "Hey, I didn't do my job right, so now it's gonna cost you more money to get it done right."
Jessica: No.
Mikki: No. Mm-mm. If they don't have the integrity from the get-go, and they're gonna try to make you pay for their lack of knowledge, for their lack of understanding of code, for their lack of relationships that they have with inspectors, whatever it is. I- if they're trying to make you pay for it, they already don't have integrity.
So- I feel like that's a question that you could- ... you're going to end up firing them regardless.
Jessica: Yeah. I feel like that needs to be added to our list of questions to ask a contractor when you're going- Yeah ... to hire them.
Joe Woolworth: Yeah.
Jessica: If you fail an inspection, who's financially responsible for that?
Mikki: I wouldn't even necessarily say ask that question.
I mean, I think it's a great question to ask, but I think more [00:36:00] important than asking the question is putting that in the contract. Failed work that, that occurs from failed inspections is never the homeowner's responsibility. That way, it's like, don't even come to me and, and try. Mm-hmm. What I will say is on s- some of these social media posts that these dudes get so upset about, a lot of really responsible contractors have commented and been like, "I have literally never- Right
charged a homeowner for, for work from a failed inspection." And that's because if you're actually a legitimate contractor, it, it is embarrassing to have failed an inspection. It's upsetting to have failed an inspection. Mm-hmm. And all you wanna do is make it right. Like- Right ... a good contractor is not thinking, "Oh, this is an opportunity for me to get another five grand out of my homeowner."
They're horrified that they failed the inspection and just wanna get it passed right away. Like, the responsible ones care about the [00:37:00] fact that they failed, not about the opportunity to make more money from you. So yeah, that's, there's that.
Jessica: Yeah. Another red flag is thinking that the social media posts are showing, like, these luxury photos and have really great branding.
But just because they have beautiful photos and branding doesn't mean that they are financially stable.
Mikki: And we see this a lot. Like, there
Jessica: was- Anybody can put pretty pictures.
Mikki: Yeah, I mean, honestly. And so we've had so many stories where they w- they were going, like that one from the couple from Texas that were, like, the ch- the knockoff version of Chip and JoJo.
Yeah. They were actually going into model homes and filming content in those homes as if they were the houses that they built. Mm-hmm. And so, like, that's un- unfortunately- There's
Jessica: no
Mikki: rules We just can't trust what we see on social media. Yeah. Like, it's, there's so many ways to manipulate situations, and people are cr- freaking crafty.
[00:38:00] They're shady, and they're like, "Oh, let me, there's this open house, and there's not a realtor in there. Let me go in there and film this content and make it seem like this is work that I've done." And next thing you know, with, with the right amount of editing, it looks like this is something that they built, or it looks like this is one of their properties.
And so th- I think it's
Jessica: It's nice to see the pictures and stuff-
Mikki: Yes, like,
Jessica: I- And, like, people who are contractors do need to put their work on there. Yeah. And, like, you do need to see what they are doing. But if every single picture is picturesque- Yeah ... and there's not really a before and after- Yeah, yeah ... there's not them, like, in the, like- In the trenches
showing a project- Yeah, yeah ... actually being fully completed. Yeah. Those are things that you wanna look for. Like, everything can't be just the beautiful picture of the end. Yeah. You have to see prog- progression.
Mikki: Yeah. That's a really good point, 'cause that's the thing is, like, I think it's a good thing for, for, for construction companies to have social media because [00:39:00] the, the young bloods out there- Thank you.
I keep seeing the
Jessica: job.
Mikki: Yeah, please ch- please reach out to Jess. She does a great job. Y- younger people source almost everything. Like, so my niece, who's 22- Mm-hmm ... she sources everything on TikTok. Like, she has found the most amazing gluten-free restaurants, or restaurants that have a gr- great gluten-free menu- Mm-hmm
because of TikTok. So, like, th- that is a gr- a huge place where younger people source f- information. Mm-hmm. So, I think it's important to have social media, but, and I can't stress this enough, that can't be the only factor. Like, oh, they've got really great social media. Okay, well, what's their, you know, w- what's their rating with the secretary of state?
Do they have a company that's registered with your secretary of state? Mm-hmm. Do they have any judgments against them? Do they have a license? Are they licensed to do this work? Now, s- sadly, I think a lot of people think, oh, well, a pool contractor doesn't need a license 'cause it's not ha- work that's happening inside of my house, and that [00:40:00] can lead to massive issues later on down the line- Mm-hmm
and obviously in this situation as well. Um, so another red flag is, um, slowdowns early in the project. So, mome- momentum matters in construction, which is very true. Um, when projects suddenly lose momentum, you have to start paying attention. So, there's things that happen where it's like, okay, well- We ordered something and it came in wrong, and it's gonna...
They're gonna have to make it, and it's gonna take a couple of weeks. When there's a decent explanation, that's not ideal, but it happens, 'cause this is construction- Mm-hmm ... and this is the real world, and n- not everything happens the way it's supposed to. But one thing that we see in these stories over and over and over again is they, they demo the work.
So it's not that they- But that's the
Jessica: easy
Mikki: part. W- well, it's... Well, one, I think it's the easy part, but two, it's the psychology of it. So it's like if they just took your money and never showed up, and [00:41:00] your house wasn't impacted, and you're, you weren't e- you know, washing dishes in your, you know, sink, or you weren't...
You couldn't use your back p- backyard at all. Mm-hmm. If, if everything in your life was fine, you were just missing that money, you would fire them so quickly. So what I'm noticing is- Mm ... they immediately show up to demo your house. Because when they come back to you and say, "Hey, we need another $7,000," or, "We need another whatever, whatever, whatever"-
Jessica: You're already looking at a disaster
Mikki: you're like, "Well, my house is torn up, so what am I gonna do? I have to pay the money." It's kinda that like... It's the construction version of gun to your head. They're like, "You don't have access to your backyard. You don't have access to your kitchen." Mm-hmm. "You don't have access to the only bathroom in your home.
And I'm now saying in order for us to move forward, you have to give me money." That feels very much like they're, they're putting you in a position where it's like, "Hey, do it or, or I'm walking off the job." And all of these people who write in because they had these terrible experiences [00:42:00] felt like, "I didn't have a choice because my house was torn up," or in this case, "'cause my backyard, there was a, you know, a wild hole- Big hole in the ground
in the ba- my backyard." And, like,
Jessica: that hole, like,
Mikki: a- A seven-foot deep hole. That's wild
Jessica: It is massive. Yeah. And it's very dangerous, especially if you have kids- Yeah ... or pets because-
Mikki: Yeah ...
Jessica: there's It's just no- there's no it. It's just bloop. Yeah. Fall right, right down into it.
Mikki: It's funny that there's all these regulations about pools after they're constructed.
Like, you have to have a fence that goes around it- Mm-hmm ... and you have to have all this stuff. But while the pool's being built, it's like, "Listen, if you fall in, we're just gonna pour the
Jessica: concrete." Oh, we had to have, we had to have the fence up before.
Mikki: Oh, did you?
Jessica: Our yard was, was fenced in before they started digging.
Mikki: So that has not happened in my neighbor's case. Oh. I don't know. Again, two years in, they still don't have their pool. They are getting closer. They have removed the mountain of dirt.
Jessica: Oh, good.
Mikki: Yeah. From the road? From the front, yeah, front street that [00:43:00] we were just driving by a mountain of dirt. Now their grass is as dead as a doornail 'cause it's had it for two years in a giant- Pile of dirt
pile of dirt. I can't. I wanna go to their house so bad and be like, "Here's my card."
Jessica: Can you
Mikki: just tell
Jessica: us- Please write your
Mikki: story.
Jessica: Tell us your story, please. Um, and another red flag is the constant excuses for materials being delayed or the crew not showing up, um, when they're vague and stuff, like, mm.
Mikki: It's one of those things where it's like, all right, one is ex- 'cause listen, things happen in construction.
So- But
Jessica: like
Mikki: a pool- Something that seems reasonable is if a material gets delayed, right? They've got other projects, so they're gonna take their guys, since they don't have the materials they need at your project, they're gonna take their guys and they're gonna put them on another job. So that's reasonable.
But there's a time period where it's like, okay, if there's not, if there's not the excuse of a material being delayed, then there's, I only think you have a couple of days. Like, [00:44:00] so if, if, if all you need is labor and it's not an issue of there's, we're lacking a material or we- Mm-hmm ... if it's just labor and in three days they can't get these people on your job, th- that's honestly a, okay, I'm looking for a different contractor.
Mm-hmm. If you wanted to be super generous you could give them a week. But I feel like that's just setting the expectation of, like, and then my six-month project took a year and a half.
Jessica: Yep.
Mikki: If they get a week to start every single time. So, like, I'm under contract. Like, our contracts say that we have a seven-day mobilization period one time.
Once we are mobilized, I have 48 hours to put people on the job.
Jessica: Hmm.
Mikki: And if I don't put people on the job, they can literally pull my contract after 48 hours. So when I have, the first time that I have seven days is when they let me know, "Okay, we're ready for you to mobilize for the drywall." And past that point I have 48 hours.
Jessica: Wow.
Mikki: [00:45:00] So when I say giving somebody three days, like, obviously I'm in a kinda more fast-paced-
Jessica: Commercial setting ...
Mikki: commercial-ish setting. So I'm saying three days minimum, you know, five days maximum, is super generous. Mm-hmm. Like, if you're a professional contractor, it should not be that difficult for you to find people to show up to do the work.
If you can't find people to show up to do the work, you know what it might mean? That those people don't pay their bills. So one of the things in our industry is c- subcontractors talk. Like, th- they just do. Like, th- they all-
Jessica: Big asset ...
Mikki: they all know each other. Somebody's, you know, married to so-and-so's cousin.
Like, everybody knows each other. Like, my cleaning lady is the cousin of my painter. I'm, I'm... They're very closely connected. So when you don't pay your bills, they all know. So one of the things that I, since [00:46:00] I went into business, I believe very strongly that I never mess with people's money. My guys get paid every week.
Mm-hmm. We don't mess around with it, no questions asked. They get paid That creates this loyalty where whenever we have a project that starts, our guys will walk off a j- I mean, they won't walk off a job, but they will complete a job and, and, and work with us over anybody else. They will say, "Sorry, we can't fin- you know, we're f- we'll finish what we started, but we're not gonna take on any m- new work," 'cause the client that actually pays their bills has a job starting.
We, yeah. Which is the most brilliant way to not have issues with for, with labor. Mm-hmm. When the labor markets get all crazy and people can't find work, that's not a problem we have because, one, we pay more than industry standard, and we pay every single week, and we never mess with people's money. So if somebody can't find somebody to show up and do work, especially in this economy-
Jessica: Mm
Mikki: it's 'cause they ain't paying their bills. So that's a huge, huge red flag.
Jessica: Yep. And with pools, like, it's, we all know how [00:47:00] it's going to go. You plot the hole, you dig the hole, you remove the dirt, you put the pipes in, the rebar. Like, it's a, it's a process- Yeah ... that does not vary. Yeah. So- Yeah ... if there-
Mikki: And it, you know, like, I guess, I guess you could start digging and, like, find stone and find rock and that might...
But it's like, it's different from renovating a house. Yeah. It's not like you don't know what you're gonna find when you open up the wall. It's, it's a hole in the backyard. So it... Again, I'm not a pool contractor, so I don't wanna make it seem like, oh, this is so simple. Things can happen. Things can cause slowdowns.
But I would imagine it is less than in the w- the renovation world- Yeah ... where it's like- It's just- ... you could open up a wall and be like, "What in the world?"
Jessica: Yeah. Like, our pool did not take that long. Yeah. And, like, there was somebody there almost every day doing... I mean, we used a reputable p- Yeah ... pool company.
This, that was what they did.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: And so there was somebody there just about every day. The only thing that they didn't tell us was about the- The
Mikki: [00:48:00] transition ... slope. Yeah.
Jessica: Which at the end of the day, didn't really-
Mikki: It wasn't that big of a deal. I mean, it wasn't ideal, but it wasn't the end of the world. It wasn't ideal, but it wasn't- So here, um, here's how homeowners can protect themselves.
So tie payments to milestones. Hmm. Meaning I am not paying you, like you pay your 20% deposit, and then they need to work off that 20% until they've completed the 20% plus another whatever they're billing for. So you pay 'em 20%. Okay, that's enough to dig the hole. The next time you're gonna pay them is when they have the plumbing in.
So every payment that you make is tied to a milestone. It's tied to something- Mm-hmm ... being completed, not started. Mm-hmm. When I bill, I bill for what I have completed on that day. Now, I still don't get paid for 30 days, but I am not allowed to bill past what I have completed on the day that I submit that bill.[00:49:00]
My contract, my... I'm not g- Like, now, mind you, I pay my guys every week, but I have to carry that, that bag for 30 days. Sometimes it can be 60 days. It's not ideal, but that's just how construction works. So people expecting to get paid in advance in construction is pretty wild- Mm-hmm ... as it's not something that I...
Now, I get it, I work in commercial, and so that's different. But I don't see why. Why should a r- a home renovator or a pool contractor or whatever it is in a residential setting get paid in advance where people in commercial, where they're dealing in very, with very professional companies, don't? Yeah. Now, it might just be me being jealous, I'm not gonna lie to you.
Um, so verify supplier payments, meaning verify that all of the, the materials that have been purchased for your project have been paid. Um, that is kinda hard to do if you're not involved and you don't know exactly who all- Right ... the suppliers are. But that's part of... If you're gonna spend [00:50:00] $200,000 on a pool- You
Jessica: should know things
Mikki: you wanna know who the suppliers are. I have to provide that information to my, my people. So if I've got something going on, I have to turn around and say, "Okay, these are my suppliers. This is how much the total job I'm p- I'm purchasing in materials. Here's how much I owe them. Here's how much they've been paid."
And I have to notarize that document, so if I'm lying, they have proof. Hmm. So I, it, it's harder, I think, in a home ren- like, home setting, but it's still possible. And it, that is where having that contract and having that information in your contract really helps. So The other note is asking for financial references.
I'm not sure how likely... Again, in commercial, it happens every day. In residential, I'm not sure how likely it is for, for you to actually get solid financial references. One thing that I do when I'm [00:51:00] working with a new general contractor that I don't, I've never worked with them before, is I have my material supplier do a credit check on these guys.
But that's something that I can do as a contractor. It's not something that you guys can do- Right ... as homeowners. So as far as it, like, asking for financial references, I think that's kinda tricky.
Jessica: Yeah. I mean, I would more ask, like, to see their, like, whose pool are they... Like, for this, whose pool are they working on now?
Yeah. Can I go see that? Yeah. Can I go talk to that homeowner? Because they're gonna be the ones that are gonna fill you in on what's happening.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: I mean, I can't- It's, I mean, we talked- I can't picture any of the-
Mikki: Yeah ...
Jessica: the pool I don't know. Being
Mikki: like, "Here's my banking information. Absolutely
Jessica: not." They'd be like, "No, sorry.
You can find another pool company to build your pool.
Mikki: Bye." Yeah, 100%. So it's funny 'cause we talked about this many podcasts ago- Mm-hmm I wanna see, like, homeowners wanting to see active projects. Yes. And I don't want you to meet me there. I don't... I want you to give me the address, maybe give me the homeowner's contact information.
Mm-hmm. [00:52:00] I wanna go see this project. And somebody on the comments was like, "This is such terrible advice. People need to have the proper safety equipment." And I'm like, "Bro, I think you're missing the point."
Joe Woolworth: Mm-hmm.
Mikki: If somebody's doing shady things, th- they don't, there's nobody on that site has proper safety equipment.
He, he went this whole, this whole post to that comment or to, to that post about how that's, it's such bad advice. But if people
Jessica: are living- People need to be safe ... in the house, then, like, you can go and see. Like, the homeowner can let you in.
Mikki: Right. And I've, I have, I, I will die on this hill as well. There are many a hill I'm willing to die on- You've got-
let me just tell you ... be careful.
Jessica: You're gonna have a
Mikki: whole mountain. Watch at me. These are facts. If I'm a homeowner, and I'm having a great experience- Mm-hmm ... with, with my renovation, and the builder comes to me and says, "Hey, I have a potential client that we're trying to sign. They want to come, you know, without me being there so they can get, like, an [00:53:00] unfiltered reaction of, like, the experience that you're having.
Are you okay with that?" I would be thrilled to share-
Jessica: Mm-hmm ...
Mikki: with, like, to, to help ease the concerns that a potential client has. Yeah. Now, maybe I'm weird. I mean, we all know this. But I can't, like, would you- Yeah ... be like, I, of course. I- I
Jessica: mean, 'cause most people do. Like, I mean, you do it when you're, like, referring people to things.
Mikki: Right.
Jessica: Like, I enjoyed this food. You gotta eat
Mikki: here.
Jessica: Right. Like, yes, come, come see.
Mikki: So I- I
Jessica: mean,
Mikki: although- ... I just, I, I get the, I get the c- the contractor's concern about, like, safety issues and things like that. But obviously I'm not saying as a general contractor give out your client's information without their permission.
Right. But I think that if a homeowner is having a great experience with you, they would be thrilled to be able to tell other people that they're having a great experience.
Jessica: But I might not want random people in my
Mikki: h- Yeah, that's what the guy was saying ...
Jessica: well, my. Well, so- [00:54:00] With the caveat is, like, you don't know who that person-
Mikki: Yeah
Jessica: is. So, like, what if there's ... I watch a little bit too much Law & Order SVU. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what if they're a serial killer?
Mikki: Yeah, I mean, peop- they could be serial killers. Mm-hmm. So there's
Jessica: that. So I might want the build- I might want the general contractor-
Mikki: To be there ...
Jessica: there. Yeah. Just as a-
Mikki: Don't murder me in my
Jessica: home situation
don't murder me in my home. Don't put me in the, the pool hole in the
Mikki: backyard. Yeah. The, the never-ending hole in my backyard. I think that is, is fair. What sucks is- Yeah ... it's hard to find a great way for somebody to confirm references. Yeah. Um, they're ... All, all the things that existed before that people relied on, like Angie's List and things like that, we've all learned that that's pay to play.
Like, Better Business Bureau is not a bureau, it's a company. They just call themselves the Better Business Bureau. You can pay to have negative things removed from your Better Business Bureau. So it's, it's kinda crappy because obviously if w- as we've discussed, people aren't going to put [00:55:00] bad ex- they're not gonna refer you to somebody who had a bad experience.
Jessica: Mm.
Mikki: Um, so I just, I think we need to devalue in a, in a sense references. Like, if, if, if it's not feasible to go to a job site and to see- Mm-hmm ... the work that's being done and to see what active things a contractor is doing. If that's not feasible because of safety issues or because homeowners don't want strangers coming to their house, okay.
I think we just need to devalue references. People are smart, and they've worked around ways to, to, to get around references. So I think we just, we need to do our own research. Mm-hmm. We need to not rely on other people's opinions. Yep. And we need to make sure we're checking their licensing, make sure that we're checking their standing with the s- with the state that you're in, make sure you're checking whether they have judgments against them.
Make sure they're insured. Make sure you're checking that they're insured, and that they're specifically insured to do the work that they're- Mm-hmm ... going to do on your property. So it kinda takes the, the role out of the hands [00:56:00] of, like, the, the, the stranger, if you will, and puts the more of the responsibility on you.
But this is how you avoid, you know, becoming one of the statistics.
Jessica: Yep. So this story is scary because it started out as something exciting.
Mikki: Yeah.
Jessica: They were really excited to have this m- fabulous backyard. Heck, I want this backyard. Yeah, for real. But it did not- Completed. Yeah. Not,
Mikki: not-
Jessica: And not in the state it is now.
Mikki: Yeah. And that's, that's the lesson, is sometimes the projects homeowners are most excited about are the ones where they let their guard down. And, and that is... I think it's something that a lot of contractors that aren't operating in good faith take advantage of. So they take advantage of the fact that you're excited.
They take advantage of, you know, th- th- how focused you are on the outcome, and they're hoping you're not paying attention to the little red flags in the beginning. So guys, don't pay more than a 20% deposit. Unless you're ordering something wildly special ordered, don't pay more than a 20% deposit. And if things aren't working out, if m- [00:57:00] if project progress is not happening in a timely manner, sometimes cutting your losses where they are is the move.
I shared a couple episodes ago about the, the first time my fence got wiped out by somebody- Mm-hmm ... falling asleep behind the wheel. The initial contractor that I hired did the same thing to me. Like, didn't show up when he said he was gonna show up, would show up and work for two hours, and then finally got upset because I said, "Hell."
I was like, "What the hell?" And he d- was very offended by me cursing, and I just, I fired him. And it turned into a whole thing. But that was the move. Like, I fired him. It cost me a couple hundred dollars, but I hired the next guy, and he did an amazing job. And he actually was the one who did the fence the second time, so.
You know.
Jessica: Yay.
Mikki: If people could just stop driving through my fence, I could stop spending fence money, but-
Jessica: Eh.
Mikki: But it's one of those things where, where sometimes just if it's not working out and somebody's not honoring their contract in the beginning- Just, just, just cut [00:58:00] it off. Like, and I, I just feel like every single one of these stories that people write in, it's one of those things where it's like, oh, man, if you had just...
If, if they had just read the tea leaves from the beginning-
Jessica: Right ...
Mikki: it, they would save themselves so much money. And so can't stress that enough for you guys. So if you have had this experience, we would love to share it with our audience, because we really wanna help people understand all of the nuances of how people who aren't operating, you know, people who are acting as bad actors kind of approach situations, and how they take advantage of people, how they manipulate you after you've already paid the money and after you're already in the process.
We wanna share those stories. In order to share them, we need you to share them with us. So please go to chicksinconstruction.com, where you can just scroll down, fill out the form. Jess will never say your real name. No. She does tend to say the real name of the shady contractors. We don't really care about them.
So if his name is Mike, we're not changing it to Michael. It's just Mike. [00:59:00] And Jess, where can they find us on the socials?
Jessica: So on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, it's @chicksinconstructionpodcast. On TikTok, it's @chicksinconstruction.
Mikki: And listen, y'all, the ones on TikTok, they, they be... The comments section is spicy.
So funny. So if you're in, if you're in the mood to read some spicy comments, check out the TikTok, 'cause that's where the action is. So thank you for watching, and we'll see you on the next one. Bye.