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Every day marketers sift through dozens of headlines, posts, and slacks telling us about the latest and greatest trend we should be following.
It’s easy to feel overwhelmed and like you have to figure it out by yourself. But you don’t have to do it alone. Content Matters with Nicole MacLean (Compose.ly’s CRO) is your digital partner for filtering the trends and focusing on the content that matters most — creating connection that drive results.
For more, head to our site: https://compose.ly/content-matters
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/
Paola Marina (00:00):
We used to be able to say, oh, social is not really our channel. I am choosing not to because it's not our channel, blah, blah, blah. But right now it's like, oh, I can't choose to not be YouTube, to not do webinars. You know what? It's almost like you are forced now to do all the things.
Nicole MacLean (00:22):
I am Nicole MacLean, and this is Content Matters created in partnership with Share Your Genius. This show is your digital partner for filtering the trends and focusing on the content that matters most, creating connection that drives results. Let's cut through the marketing chaos together.
Paola Marina (00:40):
I'm Paula Marino. I work at ViB Tech. My role is a tool marketing manager. I learned a little bit about me is I have lived in Colombia, Mexico, and I live in Houston now. My dad is from Botte, Columbia and I was born in Mexico City and when I was 1-year-old, we moved to Colombia. I lived there until I was nine years old, and then from there we moved to Mexico. From there I
Nicole MacLean (01:12):
Lived there, just a little boomerang back and forth.
Paola Marina (01:15):
And then from there I ended up being in Mexico for 15 years. Then kind of work trip, I met my now husband and although I didn't think I was going to last, I went back to Mexico and he chased me down and now we're here in Texas.
Nicole MacLean (01:36):
I laugh because the first time Paula and I met, this came up and it ended up going with another member. If you are a listener, Anna, she's been on the show. But we had this conversation and it turned into a 15 minute meeting on dating and keeping your independence and personality, but also finding the love of your life. And it was just one of those instant friendship conversations,
Paola Marina (02:01):
Which is so hard. I had to put my career behind for love and I never would never thought that would happen. So yeah, never say never. Never say never. Now it happens and now I'm happy because my career and stick to other places. I never thought that was going to be the case.
Nicole MacLean (02:21):
Yeah. Can you maybe on the professional side, how did that shift or what doors opened in a different ways that you maybe weren't expecting?
Paola Marina (02:28):
Sure. In Mexico it's different just because in Mexico I've had to work and have my own business at the same time to try to make ends meet, to pay the bills, basically.
Nicole MacLean (02:40):
That was your agency that you were running as well,
Paola Marina (02:42):
Right? Yeah, yeah, sure. So I had a social media marketing agency and that was really fun, but at the same time, super stressful. And then at the same time I had a full-time job and I was also finishing my career. My marketing bachelor's is so, oh my gosh, how I wonder. A lot of caffeine against, but that was my life and I was just to the caffeine. Cheers. Cheers to the caffeine. But yeah, yeah, insane as it sounds. I just was doing so many things and then as soon as I came for that specific project to the US and I meet Danny and then I go back and I'm having all these thoughts on what to do with my life, the thought about perhaps leaving everything behind and coming for long, dropping everything and just chasing love was not in the cards for me when I was younger.
(03:39):
It was just very career driven, very, very career driven. And so my dad was like, what are you doing? This is insane. And I sold everything Nicole and came with two bags and my poor now husband was also really scared. He was a lot of responsibility at the same time, but through the career point on top of that, it was really difficult not to make it really crazy on that sound or dramatic, but the career change between being the owner of my own business to coming here and working full-time for Cobra, and I started off in hotel, hotel industry, hospitality. That was insane. It was
Nicole MacLean (04:28):
So different. I'm sure.
Paola Marina (04:29):
So different in the terms
Nicole MacLean (04:32):
Pipeline. I was like, what are they talking about? And now, well, there's a whole other language. I know the other day I was talking to my sister and I was like, Hey, I was just seeing if we were going to touch base later today. And she was like, I am not a business meeting. Why are you using business jargon? I was like, I'm sorry, it's you just throw it out sometimes and if you haven't been in it, it's a whole different language.
Paola Marina (04:56):
Like deadline pipeline. Well, the acronyms acronym, the acronyms, acronyms, ROI was like, okay, RI is in planted in my brain now, but I remember first time I was really struggled was like, how do you prove the value of ROI on social media?
Nicole MacLean (05:15):
And
Paola Marina (05:16):
I was Y 25 years old and I was like, are you kidding me? This is awareness level, why are you asking me? But on top of it, the language barrier
Nicole MacLean (05:27):
I was, anyway, we'll circle back to the on that, we'll circle back there and say, how do you show ROI on social? But
Paola Marina (05:39):
So I rolled my eyes, but there is a way now, right? But yeah,
Nicole MacLean (05:43):
Or some education, perhaps there's some just verbiage to use to help educate on why we do social
Paola Marina (05:51):
Media and then also either way. So to go back to the first question you asked me, it was a huge difference to work for corporate in the US in America. And so I feel like the major shift was when I started in B2B on top of that because B2C
Nicole MacLean (06:11):
Was whole extra language and acronym and expectations too.
Paola Marina (06:17):
And slowly starting focusing way more on digital marketing except just social media or except just marketing full funnel. That's where I found that sweet spot when my talent could be exploited, very analytical, strategic. And so I think for digital marketing, that's something that you just have to be, and then the mix was great. I was almost just born to do it because it just come so easy to me. So that's where my journey ended
Nicole MacLean (06:50):
If you would've, yeah, to your point, found that if you hadn't jumped in personally and trusted that journey, which also unlocked, I mean, I love when people get to say that they found the thing that they were meant to do is so exciting. I know. Thank you for sharing that with us. Of course. Yeah. Okay, so let's jump into social media a little bit. You said digital marketing, you touch many things. Maybe let's start, I'm curious, where do you think social fits in a digital marketing strategy? I think sometimes it's, people already think that marketing is kind of fluffy and arts and crafts, and then I think social, they're like, oh, it's just memes and it's just whatever. But it's like, no, there's so much thought and intention to manage, especially a brand social account. So how do you think about where social fits in that mix? I feel like social
Paola Marina (07:42):
Media falls into the whole funnel. It is just everywhere in this step of the journey first, but also, and this social media has become less of a, people don't follow companies, they follow people. So how do you integrate social media with your employees basically in a way that it doesn't look fake? And that's so challenging, but I feel like it's a repetitive process. So instead of, yeah, you have a content plan and from there you just repeat, repeat, repeat. But when you start creating content to add up the complications of remote work and creation of content in a remote setting for your company, so challenging,
(08:33):
But I feel like it's possible. I mean, we're doing it right now, so it is possible, but how does it fit in the full picture? It's interesting that you asked about that because social has become a way more important tool for me as a marketer, but for the company I work at for as well, but it still does not represent my top campaigns does that don't a brand tactic unless you're able to convince the whole sales team or your whole sales team to share and reshare, and that's so exhausting. So it is, I'm not sure, I'm not sure I answered your question, but in a weirdly weird way.
Nicole MacLean (09:12):
No, I actually like that you brought it to the customer journey and that because to point your customers probably interact with it differently than prospects versus even candidates who could work at your company who then could help with demand later on there. Is that, thinking about it from that perspective, I've also been thinking about it right now, especially as everyone talks about the fall of Google, which it's not a fall yet. It is changing just like it always has, but thinking about owned channels more versus channels where you have less control of where your message goes and how it gets shown and where it gets shown. And in theory, you still have the algorithms that you have to deal with on a LinkedIn and Instagram, a Facebook, a TikTok. But if you get that follower and that person is interested in you or you get people to reshare that is an owned, that is closer it feels like to an owned community than say BC or even organic. And I've been really leaning into that strategy more for us of saying, I want more places where we have an own control of the Yeah, exactly.
(10:24):
Sorry,
Paola Marina (10:25):
I talked to O
Nicole MacLean (10:25):
You. That's not what I was going to say about controlling the narrative. That's actually way more succinct and so much better
Paola Marina (10:32):
I know, but I love it though. I've never seen it out way. And then on top of it, you get the benefit of also appearing or being able to appear in organic search, more AI overview, and it's just more and more and more content repeating the same keywords, and so it ends up benefiting you as well because of organic search. So I think, yeah, that Google is not tangible yet, but with chat DPT and all ative AI in general, I don't know if you do it in your personal life, but sometimes it's just easier for me to ask Chad DBT that Ang now, and it has become, I mean in the last year, incredibly different the way I used to search for things. And so now that we're there, you kind of know now you have to do all social is not optional now, and you also have to create a ton of blogs to rank.
(11:34):
It's just a combination of it on top of video like YouTube, I was just about to say that. And so now you don't have an option, like legit, this is the thing I think we used to be able to say, oh, social is not really our channel. I am choosing not to because it's on our channel, blah, blah, blah. But right now it's like, oh, I can't choose to not be in YouTube to not do webinars. You know what? It's almost like you are forced now to do all the things and yeah, I don't know if you agree with me, but it's becoming more challenging.
Nicole MacLean (12:12):
And we used to say people would ask, okay, so we've been writing content or we're writing X number of blogs a week, what else can we be doing? And it's always been this way that if you have referral traffic from social sites, and it's why back linking became a thing and then it got a little weaponized in SEO. So then it became kind of a negative thing to look at if you don't do it in the right way. But we've always been looking for that silver bullet. But the real answer all along, even when it was just Google and not chat pt, is you have to be doing multiple channels and showing a genuine authority across all channels. I'm hearing because in case there are people behind us, there are two adorable little pups behind Paula and I think Luna is probably playing right now with her toy, which we love. Luna wants to be part of it. Apologies, but whatever. Luna's always welcome. I just saw the tail. You guys know I'm not lying. There really is. I
Paola Marina (13:13):
Hope you can see it, Luna. Yes. See there she, she's Luna chief. Pardon? All the meeting she has to. So yeah, so I think in general, this is a thing. We don't have options anymore even if you're in B2B, because I am in B2B and I don't have a choice anymore. I wish I had because it is truly overwhelming. But at the same time, I think being able to be created and do less with, do less, more specific in those channels, like less noise, more thought leadership perhaps, and just be creative as well as how do you use the same content and repurpose it. Because I think that's where
Nicole MacLean (13:58):
Any of the AI tools have presented some challenges or just maybe forcing us to level up our game. But it also is a tool that you can use to better personalize, repurpose to actually make the content, not just let me copy and paste across all social channels, but let me take maybe this really good webinar and then use a Chacha PT or a perplexity or a Claude to then repurpose it for our LinkedIn audience versus our meta audience versus a newsletter and actually show up how you're supposed to on those channels. So it presents both a challenge and an opportunity
(14:35):
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Paola Marina (15:40):
Clutch.co/content matters. And now better think about it, not to go with an a tangent, but Oh no, we love tangents here. Yeah, we do when you are, it's so hard. Maybe there's companies that really do this, but a BM, right? Personalization. So that's when we over now, not only you have to create content for all these channels, but also do advertising and perhaps target these accounts. And so yesterday I was playing around with from ad copy and I told Gene AI change this and make it for this sub industry. And I thought, oh my gosh, A BM just came easier because now I can't tailor the messaging so smart now that I can quickly create campaigns that in the past seemed really overwhelming, especially with a small team because it's hard. And so a little bit about that, it's now things that used to seem a little bit not achievable. Now you're able to, because now perhaps you nail one thing and then you just repurpose it and tailor it to not only channels, but also audiences.
Nicole MacLean (16:55):
Yes. Well, and we could probably get on an even bigger tangent on the right way to prompt and finding different tools, but it really is that prompting skillset that I think is probably the most, it's going to probably be the biggest skillset in the twenties that you could learn to set you up for the future
Paola Marina (17:14):
And experimenting right with it and seeing how it pops up. I think in general,
Nicole MacLean (17:20):
Knowing that you're a small team, how do you find time to experiment when you have to get a campaign out the door and you have results, but also making sure that you have that time to kind of test and find efficiencies.
Paola Marina (17:33):
Okay, so small team equal, not a lot small companies, not a lot are red tape, right? That's true. So you love about it. I know, right? And it's so exciting. That's why I love about working at b and b. We literally just get to do a lot of the things and we experiment. And I think there's a lot of, I mean, it's not for everybody. I'm just going to say that because the truth is you experiment when it can literal truly just be a terrible experiment and you lose a lot of money or you can nail it like rockets. And so I think that I don't have to find the time to experiment experimenting all day long because of the nature of the company I work for.
Nicole MacLean (18:25):
I don't know if you're a Marvel fan, but this is literally when Mark Ruffalo, the Hulk is like, how do you control blah blah when you get mad? He's like, I'm angry all the time. That was the parallel I just had.
Paola Marina (18:41):
Yes, I love the Hulk and yes, I am experience being legit all the time and I'm running crazy hoping the things work and that maybe I hope I am staying true to value brand messaging. Oh my God. But it's so hard sometimes. And so you sometimes do need bigger teams that can help you make sure you're staying on track. And then second, also analyzing the success or not success of things. If I run an experiment and a campaign and I'm like 80 testing and I have all these data, and so then it's like, oh, okay, did I do well? Did I not do well? That's not sometimes a problem When you're doing all the things, it's hard to think strategy wise,
Nicole MacLean (19:31):
Right? There is an opportunity cost of going from tactical brain to strategy brain, and it's something I don't think we talk enough about, especially when you have to be that player coach or you have to kind of live in both worlds and you don't just live in tactical all day. You don't get to just live in strategy all day. It does hard. Yeah, it is hard. You have to make a mental shift between the two. Yeah. How do you do it?
Paola Marina (19:59):
Any advice?
Nicole MacLean (20:00):
That's a great question. I don't know that I've ever actually thought about it. I mean, I want to say, I mean, I'm terrible at this, so it's a do as I say, not as I do thing, but the time blocking, or one thing I've tried to do, it's been a little challenging with some schedules recently, but this is actually my favorite use case I think I've ever used Cha BT for, but we had someone going on maternity leave last year, and so we knew we were going to be a slightly leaner team, so across the board. So I took all of our meeting data out of HubSpot, gave it to cha BT and said, when is the most opportune time to run a sales meeting? Both by who's scheduled when it gets scheduled, but then also outcome? So I said, this is a positive outcome. What time of day do meetings typically move through pipeline? And then based on that, I adjusted all of our meetings to be not during those time all of our internal meetings, to not be during that time. And then for whatever reason, which surprised me, Thursday is actually the worst day for us. I thought it would be Monday or Friday, but it was actually Thursdays that were just the slowest days naturally. So I blocked our entire team's time for no internal meetings.
(21:11):
So Thursday in theory is our heads down day across the team. So it's like if you're on sales, that's when you do pipeline and you're maybe thinking more broadly versus what you have to do in the moment. And then same thing on the marketing side. Ideally, that's either where you can be super heads down and tactical, not going in and out of meetings or if that's when you want to do more brainstorming creativity, you can block solid time. And that I think has been helpful.
Paola Marina (21:36):
Time
Nicole MacLean (21:37):
Walking, simple as that. Let's talk. Amazing.
Paola Marina (21:40):
Okay, I may have to do that.
Nicole MacLean (21:41):
I don't know that I don't always get to take advantage of that as much as the team does, which is totally fair, but I also think it's having good people who can call you on it. Our CEO is really great at that of being like, Hey, you're jumping too deep into the weeds right now. It's not helpful. Or vice versa. Hey, you're thinking way too far. We just have to be here right now and stay tactical. So I think if you have good peers that can help, call you
Paola Marina (22:08):
On it. Stay accountable
Nicole MacLean (22:09):
Is good, but now this is what I'll be thinking about for the next five days. Wait, how do you do this?
Paola Marina (22:16):
How do you go from strategy to tactical and how to not get too overwhelmed? This is what happens. I feel like I'm an ostrich half of the time. I can't see the problems. My head is in the dirt and I can't see because I am just too in the wind. And then also, I don't know if this happens to you, but because sometimes when the campaigns aren't yours and you created everything and then you are supposed to judge it, it's hard. It's hard. You're judging something you created. So it's almost like being judgmental with yourself. So sometimes it's just easy to see things by result, but at the same time, I do it once a quarter with SEO and social,
Nicole MacLean (23:01):
Which quarterly I think is a good cadence. I did this halfway through last year where I'd been at the company for almost two years, and so I took time away. I literally blocked my calendar and said, I'm going to a coworking space or whatever for two days, and looked at our whole strategy, our website, HubSpot, whatever, and tried the best I could to your point, to look at it as if I was brand new, if I was getting hired
(23:31):
And I was coming in and they were saying, what would you do to improve and try to look at everything with a fresh set and let go of, Hey, we tried this in Q1 of 2023 when nothing was working and no one was having success. Okay, well, this was still a good campaign. It was just the wrong time to do the campaign. Maybe we want to bring that back, bring it back. Just really challenging myself on things and that was helpful, but again, you have to force yourself to really pause to do that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Oh, I love
Paola Marina (24:06):
This convers
Nicole MacLean (24:06):
I,
Paola Marina (24:07):
Me too.
Nicole MacLean (24:09):
So I feel like it's ostrich or draft sit above being the treetops or ostrich in head in the sand doing the
Paola Marina (24:17):
Thing. I feel like I've been an ostrich for the past three months. It's okay. I think in general, it's just so valuable. I think I did it last year with our former content marketing manager. She and I went deep 20 23, 20 24, and we were specifically analyzing display advertising. We did these super cool videos in 2023. Nothing worked. I literally thought it was 2023. Oh my gosh, what is happening in that year? I hate it. But it was just horrible. We didn't see any results and we changed all these ads. I swear we had at least 45 videos and variations of it, and we finally were able to sit down and see the metrics of all of them and pick the top. And so that's just one channel. It's insane the amount of data we have right now. And I like for instance, RA Shasta's new AI reporting tool, and I've seen a bunch of new AI reporting tools, and I get targeted and retargeted with all these tools, but I haven't nailed on one that comprises all my data into one without me having to sit a whole day to build dashboards still. So hopefully one of these days, generat of AI gives us that.
Nicole MacLean (25:41):
Oh, I'm sure it's coming. Yeah, we've put it out into the atmosphere. I mean, I think that's missing, especially as marketers, and I think I've probably talked about it on the show, but it is interesting to look at how technology has, I think affected or affected the trajectory of marketers. And I think when we had such deep social media listening tools and reporting tools, and then the same thing for virtual events and specific webinar platforms that could give you all this data. Same thing for email platforms, et cetera. You started seeing people niche into social media, into email, into ads, into et cetera, but then no one was really bringing that all together and to point the ROI of social media, okay, well that social media could be helping your ads is potentially a retargeting that you don't call retargeting because people are engaging with it. And then magically, when one thing isn't working, you pull it out and then everyone else suffers. And they're like, well, what happened? Well, you stopped investing in social just because it didn't produce a seven XRO because you're looking for a seven XROI on every single channel. That's not how it works, really.
Paola Marina (26:55):
Yeah. Again, going back to we don't have an option anymore. So this may be, remember we had talked about the celebration question? I mean, yeah, pause right at the I, I'm going to go backwards a little bit. I used to work at a company called Conservative, and we used to do programmatic advertising. Was the first time I stepped my foot into programmatic advertising. I felt so overwhelmed. I'm like, what is this? And it seemed like everybody, nobody knew what it was, but we were too afraid to say it.
Nicole MacLean (27:30):
But it was also a fancy enough word that you can put an extra 50% markup on it. And everyone's like, sure, let's do programmatic,
Paola Marina (27:36):
Right? And then I was like, you know what? I don't deal well with not knowing what it is, and so I'm going to go deep because this marketing agency used to manage it for us. And so every time we would jump in a call, it was 25 people in the call. I wouldn't literally a whole agency, and I would feel very intimidated about asking what it was. And so I was like, if I'm supposedly measuring these people, then why don't I just learn? So I got myself deep into programmatic, and this has been my past four years getting really deep into programmatic advertising. And now long story short time passes by, I'm in BD Tech, we are doing some campaign fair, and then last year we started talking about offering it to our clients. And so this year I have been part of creating a product offering.
(28:34):
But the cool thing is that back then, I remember when we used to pause these campaigns, I thought nothing is going to happen because again, I don't think no leads are coming through that I would see the huge dip into website traffic and it would immediately affect everything else. So then you're screwed because how do you do this advertising? How do we add budget for it, and how do you justify it? ROI wise? And so anyway, that's a celebration. It is still launched, fully launched, but being part of a pep product that can solve my pain points is just really cool.
Nicole MacLean (29:10):
Well, it just goes to show I feel similar every time in past roles when they've been like, Hey, I think marketing needs to own the CRM. Nobody was truly owning the CRM. We had sales. And I was like, well, someone has to do it. And I remember being like, I'm not the best at it. I mean, I know how to do emails and the marketing side, but I was like, I don't know, sales or outbound sales or outbound and just business development in general, and they wanted to move it to marketing. I was like, I've never done it. I don't know. But every time I'm like, if I just embraced it faster, it ended up coming to marketing anyways and I just delayed it. But kind of that what you said is, well, nobody knows it. Someone needs to owning those opportunities. And that is part of what I love of the smaller, small teams is if you do that one, you get to learn so much. And two, there's normally opportunities there
Paola Marina (30:06):
Is.
Nicole MacLean (30:06):
You get to own that.
Paola Marina (30:06):
And I guess that's a great way of seeing that marketers, we end up doing a lot of things and we're part of everything. And if among why, I don't know. The other day I was talking to other, it's a marketing company too, and she was telling me marketing success, the success in a marketing career is all about popularity. And I was like, what? And she was like, yeah, are you willing to say yes and work on a really difficult project and then people approving of it because you jumped in. And in marketing, we have a lot of those opportunities, right? Yes. I'm not saying you have to do it all and say yes all the time. Boundaries are important, but at the same time, marketing does give you that opportunity of stepping up into the game and exploring other things and experimenting with things. And
Nicole MacLean (30:58):
Yeah. I also think one of probably the biggest skill sets that isn't a direct tactic of marketing, but is leading with influence or learning how to lead with influence. Because marketers are often, we do get pulled in on tactical things like case studies, like sales collateral, like product launches, client referrals, all these things that live just outside. And you often have that bird's eye view of different departments that maybe sales doesn't have a product or product doesn't have a client success or whatever. And so if you aren't necessarily sitting in a position of official authority necessarily, but if you learn how to influence, how to support that political side, not bad politics, but the good side of it and learning how to use that influence with where you sit, I think is one of the most under talked about and underappreciated skillset of a good marketer, or at least a marketer that wants to have a leadership role.
Paola Marina (32:03):
I love it. I've never seen it that way. It's almost like an struggle with this, right? In the sense of, and I think all of us have, right? In the sense of, oh, how do I make an impact? I got pulled into this project. How do I lead without leading and with respecting everybody's role in it? And at the same time, I know a way, but how do I exert authority without being authoritarian and at the same time care about people? Because a yoga teacher on the outside of work, and I'm like, oh, how do I still be empathic? But at the same time put boundaries because maybe it becomes me and I don't want to fully own this whole project. But as you just said it, it's kind of like that path of, it's the nature of art room, the nature
Nicole MacLean (32:56):
It is. Well, and my background originally was in events, and so I had a very interesting seat. I would travel with sales, I travel with the CEO product. People would come to sales or we'd have client success. People come, they were talking to their clients. And so I learned so much just because of the access or just proximity of those people and helping plan things that I think I learned that very early.
Paola Marina (33:23):
I love that.
Nicole MacLean (33:24):
I don't know that I learned how to use it well early. I think it took me some at bats to do it, but I got the view and the experience of knowing if marketing wants to, it can be very strategic, even more so than just within the marketing confounds.
Paola Marina (33:40):
I agree. And there's a lot of room for growth if you want that leadership position, which is, I don't think all of us want that sometimes. I don't know. When I was younger, I was really craving this big lashy bro boss,
Nicole MacLean (33:58):
Babe marketing boss person. Yeah.
Paola Marina (34:03):
And now I'm like,
Nicole MacLean (34:05):
Now I know what I like doing. And sometimes that can lead to leadership, and sometimes it's just being really good in the spot that you're at.
Paola Marina (34:14):
And so that's, I think, a little bit of growing older. It's also part of knowing that I can really ultimately in the personal level is I'm not really looking for motivation. It doesn't matter where I'm am, right? I can man becoming senior out of something, but I'm not
Nicole MacLean (34:34):
Starting the next company again.
Paola Marina (34:37):
And it's not an external validation, but I'm looking forward, but so much more. So just doing my best. And I think doing your best in any position that you're at can lead you to so many places. Right?
Nicole MacLean (34:50):
I can. Thanks for listening to this episode of Content Matters created in partnership with Share Your Genius. If you like the show, please subscribe, leave a review and share with a friend. Otherwise, you can find all the resources you need to stay connected with us in the show notes. Till next time.