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Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.
Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.
Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.
To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.
DH - Stephanie Hopkins
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Stephanie: [00:00:00] it gets you, it seeps into your soul and then it's just, you can't really get it out of you.
Intro: What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.
I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.
Sponsor: This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.
Dan: Today's guest is an experienced interior designer, brand specialist, strategic growth expert, and team leader. She's got over 20 years of experience in the interior design industry, and she's worked with such incredible firms like Tony Chi in New York, and she brings a deep expertise in hospitality, branding, development, and business growth. She's also worked with major [00:01:00] hospitality companies like Marriott's, Moxie Brand and Bridgeton. She's an associate. Principle of hospitality at B two Design Co in Austin, Texas. Ladies and gentlemen, Stephanie Hopkins. Welcome Stephanie.
Stephanie: Hi. Hi everybody. Hi Dan. It's great to see you.
Dan: And for those, for all of our avid listeners and and raving fans, you'll be happy to know that this is one of the few Boomerang episodes where, where Steph has come back and. I think it's also important to note that Stephanie was really one of the first fans, official fans of the podcast that came up that I didn't know that came outta nowhere.
And just to set the stage, did a panel at some trade show. I was walking off and I saw you and one of your colleagues. I didn't know you. I talked, I was talking to one of your colleagues who moved from Hyatt over to Marriott also, who was on the podcast at one point. [00:02:00] I said, oh, I'd love to have you on the podcast.
And she's like, I didn't even know you had one. And then you said, wait, are you Dan Ryan? Oh my God, I love your podcast. So I am forever grateful for that. And then also, you set me up really well with Marriott. So like every quarter we were, well, I don't wanna say what the, you can probably describe what the, um. Like the thrust of that initiative was that you were championing to get design folks from Marriott out there to like really celebrate and the design element of what you guys have all been doing at Marriott. Um, but that was just really important to me and I know that you're not at Marriott anymore.
You've, you've and I, I think the other thing that I really want to chat with you about is, okay, typical career path. In our design, in the design side of our industry is you work as a designer, you. Become a, [00:03:00] a director, a level of management. But like everyone, not everyone, but most everyone seems to want to go to brand, to ownership, um, to a developer, right?
That seems to be the normal trajectory. And what I've seen is, You know, you've moved to Austin and now you're working at a design firm, but you've developed this incredible set of skills working at Marriott that now you're helping that, you're, you're helping where you are now. Um. Navigate that labyrinth of all the other brands 'cause You know how to go and get things approved and get it done. Did I say that correctly?
Stephanie: You did. You did. And um, yeah. I. Well, I'll go back to being the first fan. I, I, I feel like I need some sort of like, maybe a button that I could wear and just be like first man, just defining hospitality.
Dan: Done. I'll, I'll, I'll get a button making, uh, machine press.
Stephanie: Um, yeah. But [00:04:00] I, yeah, that was a great, that was a great intro. So that initiative at, uh, Marriott was kind of getting those, the global design, so kind of. G-D-U-S-C. So the, the team members who are kind of the ones partnering with the owners and actually like helping their projects get built. I think sometimes I, we were all talking as a team and we had an initiative of getting those voices out there.
So I think you had a bunch of different really great guests from that, that I can roll off. But I, I, I know, and also, I mean, that was. That was right when we were building the, or finishing the hq. So I know you had a good, good one with Rado at one point in time. That was really fun. So, um,
Dan: you were one of the few in-person ones I've done in the
Stephanie: yeah,
Dan: was super fun.
Stephanie: yeah, it was great because also it was right after COVID. I don't think we, like, we had not even been in the building. You and I had been in the building the same amount of times. Uh, when we did that, we were in person. So it was, it was really great. I think there were so many great things about it, [00:05:00] but, um.
Yeah, so now during COVID, you're right, I moved to Austin, relocated and um, and found myself here. And when I was kind of picking my head up, this opportunity kind of came up and I don't, there were so many things that I didn't see coming. I didn't really, I didn't really know. I knew I could help build like the hospitality.
I knew I could help build that. I didn't realize even then, kind of how strong the relationships were and how important that was gonna be to the ownership groups that we were working with around the Marriot kind of knowledge. I think it's the, it's the, You know, kind of some of the friendships or the, You know, relationships that I had when I was there.
But not even that. I think it's just like the work ethic that I had and me being who I am and them knowing. That they can trust me with a project from a Marriott side. They know I, that I can execute, help execute the brand to [00:06:00] be, um, brand aligned and all the things that you need it to be. I understand what that means.
I understand how to be the partner because I was on the other side needing interior design firms to be that partner for me, um, when I was working at Moxie. So I understand what all that means, and I think that's, I think that's missed, You know, sometimes, um. Maybe, maybe not on all firms, but I think sometimes that's missed, and I think that's really what's appreciated.
And then the ownership group appreciates that too.
Dan: Mm, totally. And, and I wanna, I wanna pull, I want to dig into that a lot more
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: I, it obviously it all relates to that relationship and re how important relationships are in everything, but specifically in hospitality. So, before we go a step further. What does hospitality mean to you and tie, tie in that career trajectory change and why you decided to stay in hospitality?
Because I'm sure You know, Austin's a booming town. When you were there, when you were trying to figure out what was next, I'm sure there were a ton of [00:07:00] opportunities, but what kept, what kept you grounded or what was the gravitational pull that you couldn't get? Escape velocity and get away from us in hospitality.
Stephanie: I mean, well, I think, I think that goes without saying. I mean, there's so many times that, I don't know, I think hospitality is e. I think the bug bites you and then you just kind of can't leave it. I think there are so many times that you feel like there are ups and downs there have. For sure been a lot.
Um, I have, I was not part of hospitality in 2008, 2009, but I was, You know, still in an adjacent kind of industry. Um, but You know, since COVID there's been a lot of ups and downs and I think there's been times where probably lots of people have considered, is this really the right place to be? And for me, each time I think about it or I go back to it, or I think about what's next, You know?
All the people that I go to for advice are in [00:08:00] hospitality and, and whether or not they advise me to stay, it just kind of reminds me that it's, it is just something that, it kind of, it gets you, it seeps into your soul and then it's just, you can't really get it out of you. Like it's just ingrained into you.
The people, um, are obviously, You know, the biggest bonus, but the, it's really just the relationships that kind of, for me, span way beyond. Hospitality, it's it's way beyond that of like kind of the friendships that I've made and the people, um, that are kind of part of my tribe. And that's really what keeps me here.
And, You know, most of the time I still really like it every single day. There are moments, don't call me on those bad days, but there, most of the time I still really just love it. And so for me, defining hospitality, how I define hospitality, um, is, is still kind of the same. I think, You know, last time we talked a lot about.
Growing up and what that experience was like. Um, and my mom always entertained. I talked about that and, and how [00:09:00] she, we, we had the house that everybody came to and it was really, it was, You know, she had the house. Set a certain way, everything looked a certain way. That little throw pillow, all the details my mom paid attention to had the, the candle going, the music on, You know, the food always had the food kind of waving through.
So I, I think that has been just a part of how I've defined it. And I think that was really as I was learning to be a designer. So it's that moment, it's kind of that full view, that full experience from meaning you drive. You know, you come up and approach the hotel. What is your experience like as you're driving up the portico share?
How do you control all of those experiences? Right? When you step in the door, what do you hear? What do you smell? What do you see? Um, You know, up to kind of that point of, You know, your first interaction with, with the, You know, with the hotel staff and what that's like, and then, You know, the bar and the ambiance and the vibe.
So. To me, hospitality is that whole full picture. It, it's bringing all of those things in [00:10:00] together and I think even, I still think that even now. So I was, You know, we were, I was happy to hear that. I still think hos, I define it the same way because I still think that, I think about that a lot with our team as we're kind of going into.
A project and You know, we talk and we look at something and we're like, is that in our scope? And I was like, well, yeah. 'cause it's in, it encompasses all of this stuff. So yeah, it's in our scope because it's what's best for the project and it's what we kind of need to do to, to have this really great experience.
Dan: Um, so aside from your definition of hospitality, not changing from the first time we spoke, which is gr which is expected, right?
Stephanie: Really, I was like, has it changed? I was like, I, I was happy to know that. It was like, I was like still resonating. Really?
Dan: from your, that's why the most successful conversations here are the ones that are from the heart, right? So the definition is in your heart
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: it's not gonna change. So you're aligned there. But one of the things I heard you say five or six times was the word [00:11:00] relationship and just not just beyond or and beyond just friendships and colleagues and everything else.
There's. Yeah, there's a love of kind of what you do and who you do it with, I think one of the reasons why I'm really excited to talk to you today is it's a weird time in our industry now. Um, there's a lot of change. There's a lot of reorganizations, there's a lot of like cost cutting. Uh, people who had one career path are now on a different career path. But I think what most people don't know, and, and you alluded to this as you were talking. As we all do what we do, it's actually incredible how many people I talked to before on this show, and I, I'm like, okay, so what does hospitality mean to you? Like as on the alignment call, like we talk about it, and a lot of people consider hospitality is.
They're just so used to executing it, [00:12:00] performing, delivering hospitality, designing for hospitality, that it's just like what they do. And that alignment call I have with everyone before the podcast, it, it's like a clarifying, like a coaching session. And it helps them consider the why about what they do. Right. And I think that what's really important is with all the change we in, in whatever our vocation is, we may, we do what we do. But oftentimes we don't step outta that proverbial batter's box to consider why we do what we do. I think from your experience being design on the brand side, um, and now back in design, that whole brand experience helps you develop a set of skills of. So that when you're working with one of the hundreds of developers who's working on a, on a Marriott project or any other brand for that matter, You [00:13:00] know who to call. You know what the brand is looking for. You know how to give the brand what it wants and satisfy them, but also give the developer what they want.
You're very good at balancing the needs of, of all the different stakeholders and then also, but saving time along the way. And I think a lot of people don't consider. What they've learned over their vocation and how everyone has a unique set of skills like Liam Neeson said in the movie Taken when he was gonna go kill people. But, You know, we all have these set of skills and oftentimes we don't. It's almost like, what color is your parachute? Remember that book from like way back in the day?
Stephanie: No.
Dan: oh, it's like a, it's like h helping to build your resume or find your calling or, um, find your career path. We all have these special skills, but oftentimes we don't know how to. Spell them out. We
Stephanie: Mm-hmm.
Dan: to, we don't know how to, when, when things change, we don't know how to lean into those special skills and, [00:14:00] and forge a new path.
Stephanie: Yeah, I mean it, I think it's, well, it's hard. It's, I think, I think it's hard to see yourself from the outside, of course. I mean, this is, I think, what everybody struggles with. I, I think, You know, during my timeframe of kind of like rethinking about what, what my next steps were, I looked at a coup, a bunch of different.
Things and, uh, like a bunch. And I talked to a lot of people, but I think what really helped me get clear from even from others was kind of where that value came in. And that's where I, I think for me, what's a crucial thing that I feel like is where am I gonna be a good value add? And so that those skills that were kind of rising to the surface, You know, repeatedly when I was, um, You know, having conversations with.
You know, kind of, I consider a lot of 'em my friends and mentors and everybody in the industry out of the industry. That's what kind of kept rising to the [00:15:00] top was. I think you're right. I think working for an owner, I think being a designer before working for an ownership group and then having that brand experiences are really, not everybody has had all of those experiences and thinks about it from all those perspectives.
So I think that is really, I think mostly. What is really valuable is just really thinking about. What is the best for the project always. And that is kind of like navigating those relationships and moving the project along quicker and making sure the brand's happy and making sure that, uh, the owner's happy and, and, and kind of being that go-between.
I think that that part of it is, um, honestly, it, it's pretty, I I enjoy it. I find it pretty easy now because I, but I think it was kind of that training through Marriott that taught me, really, it was a whole new. Experience for me when I went there, I didn't really understand the way brands work, and maybe I don't, I don't, I definitely don't know how every brand works, but I, I understand how Marriot works.
Dan: But what I'll also say [00:16:00] is, but also in all those other brands, that works at all those other brands are a phone call away from you.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: You know how to find them and how to navigate it, and You know how to hear what's important to them. 'cause oftentimes, people don't know how to read the room. from your special set of skills, I'd never heard of B two Design Co before you went there, right? So not only do you have this special set of skills. When you, or when anyone else goes and starts at a new company to build a specialization within it your previous specialization. You're bringing a Rolodex, you're bringing a network, you're bringing a whole way, a new a, a whole new way of looking at things, doing things, and, and building a business to serve that new market.
Stephanie: Yep. Yeah.
Dan: so I, and, and again, I want, I want to talk to you about this because I want all those other folks that are out there that maybe are on a new path now to think about special their unique [00:17:00] experience is and how they can bring it other places. And it's not just the unique set of skills, it's also their entire network.
It's, it's, it's really fabulous. I mean, it's amazing.
Stephanie: Yeah, I mean, I. All the time to like, I mean, I think the people that I worked with at Tony Chi, Dan, and you probably see the people that were early on in your career. I mean, they're SVPs creative directors, they're running their own firms, they're doing whatever. Those people that I was a junior designer with, and we were like working late into the night and sitting in a podcast and You know, creating spaces, doing all the things, chatting on, I think it was Skype at the time that we were running back and forth with, chatting all those people.
Those relationships I still have kind of, right. And even vendors that I met then are still, You know, um, they're, they're, so I think that network has grown. I've grown with that network. That network has kind of seen me grow. And then I think the additional, additional teams that I worked with while I was at Marriot, that exposure to kind of all the [00:18:00] rest of the teams, good, bad, or indifferent, I think, um, You know, those.
Relationships that I had, that experience that I learned through handling so many different projects, you encounter so many issues while you're there. You help different people navigate through those issues, so that that is a really unique skillset that not everybody has. Even designers who have been doing this for 20 years haven't seen.
You know, 30, 60, 80, a hundred, 120 projects under their, their purview and like navigated that historical tax agency issues and, and this issue or that issue. You just, you, you get this Rolodex of information that I don't think you, you for sure don't realize you have at the time and now like coming back and like helping grow this team and training this team.
And, and like teaching 'em that stuff. But to your point, that Rolodex of people has also come with us, which has been really, um, great and [00:19:00] wonderful and really fun to kind of rekindle some of those relationships. Um, I've definitely also been pretty making, You know, I've been pretty cautious, I would say, not cautious, but making sure that my team is ready and can support.
The projects of whatever the projects are like. I'm definitely really honest. And if we're, if it's like a, and this is somebody out, our CEO, Alison will probably be like, don't say that. But I think if we're not ready for a project and you're like, Steph, I really need you to do this project, and I'm like.
Dan's, my friend, Dan knows I have this integrity. He's gonna expect X, Y, Z from me. And if my team is strapped or can't do it, I'm gonna be like, thank you so much. We can't do it right now. Um, and I don't think everybody does that. And I don't think everybody would say that. And there's been some different team members, um, that I've been like, wait until we get a little bit more under our belt, or wait until we gel as a team.
And I think that's been really important too. And I think people have appreciated that [00:20:00] and.
Dan: I, I wanna, I'm gonna, I want to put a thumbtack in saying no to things, right? Because I, but before I, I, I want to come back to saying no to things because I think some of the best projects I've ever worked on are the ones I say no to, right? Um, but I feel, uh, going back to that special skillset and also that entire network. You and other people like, and again, I'm speaking to the other people who are like, life happens and then now that they're trying to figure out what to do next, right?
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: and I love Greek mythology, so like, it's, it's almost as if your thesis, remember, I don't know if you remember who he was, but he was the guy that went through the labyrinth to slay the minature and left the string behind him.
But the the labyrinth is, are, are those big brands? They're, they're the, these big. Mazes that a lot of developers don't know how to navigate.
Stephanie: Yep.
Dan: it is really a, um, [00:21:00] You know, time is money, right? And, and if you can save weeks, months by knowing who to call at these brands to get the approval or get on their docket that hey, we're converting, we're changing a flag.
There's a real power to that. Um, one of the things I want to, I, I was recently with the Great Kahan Ali Kahn, and we were, on a panel together. And You know, Marriott gets a lot of flack for having 40, I don't know if it's 40
Stephanie: I think it's more than that now. Honestly, I can't really, it seems like,
Dan: but you were the brand champion for Moxie at Marriott?
Correct. Okay. So of the things that she said as I was talking to her in front of all these people was the power of a brand in the, I'm going back to the saying no part, using Moxie as an example, they. and all the other brands, they get very specific and they develop a language around what they are. But more importantly than what they are, it's what they're not[00:22:00]
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: guests are not attracted to them. And the other thing I learned was of that 40 brands and the matrix from, I forget what the words are, but like select to lu to luxury and all the different, the, there is a matrix, I'll throw it up in the YouTube, but um. One of the things I didn't realize is Moxie is that attempt to get them when they're young. Right. And then the, the ultimate brand like value is to keep Marriott people who might be, be using the Bonvoy system. And that's a great moat for Marriott, but it doesn't really keep people there. In a way it does, but, but it, Marriott's done a lot of work on trying to get. Have the, have the consumer have the guest age with all the brands that they have. Like, so
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: like a, there's a lifetime journey, a stepping stone of different brands that people, or that guests can like, [00:23:00] evolve and grow and age with Marriott.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: so the saying, no part, what did you learn the most about being a brand champion for Moxie at what they say no to, or who they attract or, or. Saying no is a scary thing, but it's also, I think when you can get into a niche, it's the most powerful thing.
Stephanie: Yeah, I mean from the brand perspective, You know, I think in, in that role you kind of toe the line of helping keep the brand true to like the essence of what it is, and then being able to ascertain. Is this decision that you're gonna make here about whatever it is, if they don't wanna include, You know, some sort of key brand element, is that going to compromise kind of the essence of the brand?
So you have to kind of get to that point and you have to say no to some really powerful [00:24:00] ownership groups that maybe want to do something because they're used to doing another brand, but you're really trying to protect. The essence of what that brand is. You know, you're trying to help the ownership group get there, but you also are trying to protect the brand.
It's a really tricky, that in itself is a tricky role to be in because it's, not always the popular role. You know, you're really trying to kind of, um, keep that to it. So I think that is the beauty of that saying no, there is just, or, or what the hard part about it is, is that you're. It is just you're telling somebody something they don't wanna hear, you're saying something that they don't like.
That's the hard thing always to do. Right? It's hard to say no to anybody. It's hard to say no. Um,
Dan: you're also building a brand like the mo Moxie is for the younger traveler, typically. Right. That psychographic. And when you're developing that moxie perspective, you're, you don't want to be all things to all people. Like my dad,
Stephanie: yeah.
Dan: loved Marriott Courtyards because he knew the iron was in the same place and the TV remote was in the, and I, as he's [00:25:00] telling me, when he told me this, I was like, oh my God, I, are so different.
Stephanie: Oh yeah, no, and my parents are the same, which I love. I love for them. They're big, they're big, uh, Bonvoy fans and, um, and all of all, the whole family is mad that I love Marriot and I don't have the Marriot, um, You know, friends and family, You know, the, the Marriott employee discount. But, um. But for saying the different brands, Moxie was really kind of the psychographic that you're talking about.
I mean, I think there was one time that I was in the elevator next to this, like elderly couple, and I was like, why do you stay here, here? And they were like, we love it. It's urban. It's always in like whatever the downtown places are, it's nomas, no fuss. The rooms are just simple. They are what they are. We throw our bag down and we go hit the streets.
And I was like, that's, You know, that's kind of what you're trying to capture there. And then I was chatting with, um. You know, a colleague and he was like, I, I just, You know, I don't really like Moxie, You know, because of all these things that he said. And I said, well, you're not, that's great. You're not the target guest.
[00:26:00] So that's, that's probably, that's probably pretty good than because, 'cause there's other brands, there's many other brands within the system that are more, that attract you more than that, right? There, there are tons of other brands that work for him. So that's kind of, um, You know, it, it was, it was great to kind of be part of that disruptor brand.
I think that that. I think what all of these things have had in common for me is just a little bit of that entrepreneurial spirit, right? I think you get that when you're, sometimes, when you're at a design firm, definitely when you're working for a developer. And then I think for me, in that corporate environment, Moxie was really great because it was kind of a disruptor, it was kind of new to the scene that really kind of fed that part.
And then now coming back here and helping build this team and, and build this out, that that is also still capturing that for me so that it's kind of. All connected.
Dan: Okay, so now I want, I'm glad you brought up this team and where you are now. So what was B two before you came there as like the [00:27:00] hospitality specialist? Right. And what is your vision? What's B two's vision? As far as you, as far as you continuing to build out the hospitality practice and work on more and more projects, not like Marriott and other, um, but like what's, what's the vision and how, how have you in your hospitality lens and how has hospitality changed be two for the better?
Stephanie: Yeah. That's a great, so bt
Dan: that it wasn't good before. I'm just saying
Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dan: I'm biased towards hospitality. So how did hospitality make B two better?
Stephanie: Yeah, well, I think, um, so B two has been around for almost 20 years and they started in multifamily. Um, And so they have been doing multifamily for years. That was kind of their bread and butter. They're based, the, the company I'm in Austin, but the company is actually based, it's headquartered in Dallas, um, Chicago and Miami.
Um, And so the, the.
Dan: I, I wanna, I wanna pause [00:28:00] you right there for one second because that panel that I was talking to, the great con alia on it, was in front of all these multifamily people. And all the multifamily people were like, gosh, is like light years ahead of multifamily. Um, or they, that's what they said.
And then what was really interesting is Alia was like, well. I, okay, I hear you. But you guys have really delivered some amazing products and from how you, your technological platforms, uh, the length of term of just all the, the return to investors. Like we, I sometimes think that multifamily is light years ahead of what hospitality's doing, but really they're just kind of, they both feed off of each other in a great way.
So, I'm sorry to interrupt, but
Stephanie: No.
Dan: contextualizing it with the multifamily.
Stephanie: Yeah, so they, so B two has been, we've been doing multifamily for years. That is kind of like the base, the foundation and our CEO Allison, um, she's really great at [00:29:00] diversifying kind of, right. And so we added, we added senior living And so we, we do senior living as well. Um, we added student housing And so we do student housing.
So all of these were kind of steps into it. I think we added student, senior and student maybe seven. To 10 years ago, and then they added a hospitality group, a, You know, hospitality team. They were, they were lucky to get some kind of in-flight projects. And so when I came on board, we had a little bit of that hospitality foundation started, which was great.
And then kind of just building from that and, and, and bringing the team. So, I mean, hospitality for B two has influenced in all great ways. I would say that B two is really good at always doing. And creating, we call it like a lifestyle studio. They're still creating those multifamily spaces, those student housing spaces, those senior living spaces that have, like, we still tell a design story and a narrative and it creates kind of that lifestyle moment.
It taps into the locale, the location of where you are. And um, so that is really already captured, which is a huge part of hospitality. Right. [00:30:00] So, um, but I think growing this hospitality arm has really opened a lot of doors for us in these other. Realms because they're like, oh, great, and you guys do hospitality and you understand what that experience is like and you can bring this into these other spaces that are, You know, I think our student housing, um, You know, partners that we work with are very interested in that.
Um,
Dan: they
Stephanie: and then I,
Dan: serious hospitality in there.
Stephanie: well, I mean some of the student housing ones are, are really good. I mean, there's some really movers and shakers I think doing that. I think even there were some projects, student housing project.
Dan: daughter is going to Tulane next year, and she was showing me pictures of the dorm, so I have a very siloed
Stephanie: A dorm is different than this student housing is off campus, so it's a very different than what you're talking about.
Dan: Well at at Tulane. Apparently you're only allowed to live on campus for the first two or three years. Like you can't live off, but they're,
Stephanie: yeah.
Dan: of, they're missing the plot there, especially
Stephanie: No. Well, and also I, I think my dorm was, um, I remember [00:31:00] they were like, oh yeah, we built this off of a prison. That's how we, that's the model of what we built this dorm off of. And I was like, yeah, that sounds about right.
Dan: Oh,
Stephanie: So, I mean, that was, You know, but these, these off campus student housing our Dan Next level, and they're not inexpensive.
So I'm sure you'll get to that part of it too. And we can have another conversation, but.
Dan: wanna think about that yet. I can barely get my head through next year and making
Stephanie: Yeah, but it's, it's interesting because, um, You know, they, like the developers that we talk to, they're like, oh my gosh, yes, we want, like, they can't have a bar because their clients aren't able to experience a bar in that way, or, but they wanna have that look and feel, they wanna have kind of, You know, the hospitality vibe.
I mean, there were some student housing projects that were up for GoldKey awards, so that just kind of tells you. Yeah, that just kind of tells you like how intertwined they all are. So I think that has been kind of where B two has been. I think [00:32:00] really, I mean I, I've known Allison for a long time And so she and I were sitting down catching up and we were kind of talking about things and she was talking about hospitality and I was like bringing in my perspective and just kind of layering that in.
And that's kind of how this role just kind of. Created and, and and kind of became what it is today. It was just us talking and me just saying, oh, advising a friend of like, I think maybe you should do this or that, or maybe you should consider this, or maybe you should do that. And so all of that, that experience and that knowledge that, You know, her, her trying to build a team, starting into it, she was like, You know, kind of come build this team over here.
Like what would this be like, what would this look like? And um. So that's, that's kind of how it came to fruition and, and where we're going and what we wanna do. You know, I think I, in general, in my heart and soul, just wanna work with good people and want to work on good. You know, it doesn't always come to fruition, but I do think, like, [00:33:00] those are the kinds of clients that we're attracting.
Those are the kinds of projects that we're on, we're helping, um. You know, people sometimes, like first time hotel developers and sometimes, You know, long term, You know, hotel developers. But we're, I think we're really kind of, You know, bringing that look to it. You know, B two is growing, um, a lot. We've also added, You know, hospitality, procurement and, and we've always done, um.
Dan: Amber Ely. That was amazing. So you, you get to like, interact with her almost every day. 'cause that must be amazing.
Stephanie: You know what I was thinking today? I literally was about to teams her and be like, my least favorite part of my job is that we don't talk more, You know, because it just is like we're both running our teams, but we've got Amber, I've got this amazing, we have this amazing design director, Jimmy Young. He is, um, You know, I think there's some people that you meet out there that are.
Are good. And then there are meet people that are great, and Jimmy is really, really great at what he does. He's really great at helping, like [00:34:00] at creating the, the space and the vibe. So I feel really, he was already on board, You know? So I think Allison has this great ability to attract really good people.
And I, I just, um, this team that we're building is just really solid and really strong and we're building it purposefully, You know, I think we're not, um, out there trying to take. Everything. Not trying to to be the hungry hippo and gobble everything up, but we're, we're taking things we're ready for, we're, You know, stretching and growing in all the right places.
And it's, it's exciting, but I mean, You know, we have lots of goals and, um, dreams to kind of grow, grow this more, but I, I absolutely am kind of really purposeful in how we do that.
Dan: So in what you were just saying, in, in the, in the first part of that paragraph or chapter was talking about telling a story and a narrative and kind of the process of getting it all [00:35:00] together, right? If you were to put on. Your brand hat, your designer hat, and then your consumer or guest hat. a mistake you see a lot of hotels make when they're trying to tell a story?
Stephanie: I think that a lot of times the stories aren't grounded. Like they're not, they're like a bunch, there are phrases and words, or they're saying a lot of things without saying a lot of things, right? The this is like this. They're telling it on the paper. But it doesn't come through in the execution. I think one of the projects that we're working on that is super strong is that like the branding relates to what, You know, we, we got branding from a, a, a team.
That branding has translated into the narrative and really solid, and every single one of those design pillars is executed in every single. Portion of like the guest room, the model, like [00:36:00] it just, um, resonates a hundred percent. So like every time you see it, you're just like, wow, this is really good, because it all connects and ties back to the story.
I think oftentimes in seeing this at Marriott or seeing these, oftentimes it's like teams will come up with what they think the narrative is. Or, and somehow it gets lost in the execution. Whether it gets lost in, as you're putting it into schematic design or design development or CDs or ve, which, You know, all that happens, right?
Things happen during that process and when it gets built and then ensuring that, like, then the ops team has to pick it up from there. So the really successful ones are kind of, I think that take that true a, the narrative is really grounded. It's really strong. They carry that through every aspect as they're designing.
They don't just. Pick a random light fixture because they like it. They don't just pick a random, You know, styling element. The art, it all kind of really comes back to what that story is.
Dan: in that, in that process for that project, there a separate [00:37:00] branding agency that came on, or do you do that internally?
Stephanie: We don't, we partner with a lot of different firms and whether or not we will partner with the firm and whether or not we kind of put it under the B two umbrella. We don't actually have a full.
Dan: I.
Stephanie: In-house team, but we have a lot of teams that we work with in that aspect. This one, the ownership group came to us and really just wanted us for the design scope, um, only, And so the branding was done by a different firm and they kind of handed that over to us.
But there are some projects that we're talking to now and. We have a partnership with some branding teams and they're kind of just either white labeling it under us or we're kind of showing, hey, we're a partnership coming at this together. Um, so we really work pretty synonymously like that. 'cause there's a lot of, You know, there's a lot of different projects have different needs and sometimes owners want one group and one group in charge to kind of deal with.
Dan: who's the C? The CEO is Allison.
Stephanie: Yeah. She's Alison. Alison Brooks
Dan: met him. Well, Allison, maybe there's some diversification there into branding, because this has been coming up more and more,
Stephanie: Agree.
Dan: I'll [00:38:00] say even as a manufacturer, um. The projects where the approval processes take the, the shortest time, like doing all just custom everything.
So we're, we're reinventing the wheel every time. ones that seem to go the smoothest are the ones where those brand pillars and usually by an outside branding agency, internal, but where it's very, very strong and that there's been a lot of, um, and investment in that. So that really, when it comes down. To approvals and like trying to hit that Saru just that way, or trying to get that radius or that, um, I don't know, that carving detail or whatever that the detail is. That's normally a little nebulous and gestural and it's hard to like. it binary and black and white, the ones that invest in the brand book and the brand pillars, and it's really disseminated amongst all the, all the stakeholders.
Those approval processes go much smoother because the [00:39:00] language is, is so cut and dry And so clear that there's just a lot less rounds of of approvals.
Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I found that when I was at Marriot too. Right. And I think that's, that's the, the thing that you want. The brand pillars then relate into kind of the narrative or the design pillars, and those are those, those anchors. I think it's those anchors and taking that through is what you're, what you're talking about.
Right. And it, it's, it's not it.
Dan: the not grounded part, right? Because all that thought is done. 'cause you said, you said. The, the challenges where those, those pillars or the, the, the idea of what the brand wants to be, it's not grounded or the story is not grounded.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: because of that front loaded work on branding, it's really providing anchors that makes everything more seamless and deep and, and real.
Stephanie: Yeah. And it's like, and I think it's really tapping into the realness of whatever that story is, [00:40:00] right? And, and the actuality of it. That, that for me is really where, You know, we are working on a project right now and we're kind of going through the narrative process, and that's like. Part of, of where we're going back and forth with it.
It's, it's, um, You know, coming back to the team, You know, Jimmy and I reverbing off of each other being like, let's just, how do we, like, we need to dig us deeper, we need to take it more, we need to come back to this and, and really kind of re, You know, refining and reiterating and not just taking the first thing that comes across the paper.
So that part of it, um. That's, that's to me, I think what I saw throughout the, You know, kind of some of my timeframes, I'm working on some different Moxies and, and that even ACS and elements, and that's where the strength I think really comes in. And I think if you can go to somebody and ask them what was a design narrative, and if they don't.
If they don't know, if they say, well, You know, there wasn't really a narrative or [00:41:00] something like that. That to me is the first time that I'm like, Ooh, it, it makes me kind of wonder about what that end game or end product is gonna be. Is it gonna tell, is it, it's not that it's not gonna be a beautiful hotel, but is it gonna have that like heart and soul that I think a lot of us retracts, at least a lot of the hospitality people that I know what we're really looking for.
Dan: want to go back to the brand, the brand hat, the consumer hat and the designer hat, and then the Stephanie hat, right? Then there's you, um, you've had all of these different experiences to give you this unique set of skills, right? this incredible network. Um, what would you say other people out there that maybe have just gotten reorged or maybe are starting out in their career? what words of advice? Because you've seen, you've seen it all right. So, so what, what do you have, like what's a, what's a PA kernel of wisdom that you could share with [00:42:00] them?
Stephanie: I say expose yourself to as much as possible. I think that's really, I think that's kind of what I did. I think I changed, um, paths. I looked for something different. I pushed myself into all the uncomfortable places. I talked to all the people. Um. Meaning, like I talked to several different people when I was like, You know, changing.
And I think a lot of people that are potentially in that reorg spot, it's like, You know, I talked to different vendors about exploring maybe what that would be like. I talked to different people who were adjacent to kind of, You know, design. I talked to designers when I thought I would never, I thought I would never go back to a design firm if I'm gonna be real honest.
I, I didn't think about any of that stuff, but I think it was just like. It, it was really heartwarming to me. The people that reached out to me kind of, and were like, wanted to talk to me, um, I was like, yes, I will fly there and have lunch with [00:43:00] you, or I'll drive there, I'll do whatever. You know, I, I think it was, those were really.
Filled my cup up a lot. It made me feel really great. And those, those, all of those like conversations and then being like, well, this isn't a good fit. What, what do you want? And talking to them and me helping, that's what formed it all. I think it was, it wasn't that I was like, oh, yes, I'm gonna do exactly this.
It was kind of all of those different things and wondering about it. That's how I, every single job. That I have taken. It was kind of like I was at Tony Chi and designing luxury project products, projects. And that was great and wonderful. But the projects were really long. I was young. I wanted to see, I mean, I was younger, I think I was young, I was younger.
Um, and uh, and I really wanted to see different things. So I went to a smaller firm and we were designing bars and restaurants in New York and, and those were fast and those were fun, and those were on budgets and quick. And you're on site all the time. And then I worked for a developer and I was.
Designing hotels for them, but they were design builds there. I, I mean, I learned a [00:44:00] ton through that, designed my first hotel and, and, and what their needs were. And then I realized, oh, I don't know that much about the brand. So then going to the, You know, just I think like understanding, I didn't know what it was, but being willing to kind of take a role in a job or to, to go out there and.
I seem to only take jobs where I don't, like, I've never done that before and I'm like, oh, let me do this. I don't seem to take another role in like, in another place. Like, I was like, oh, I haven't grown a hospitality team before. Let's go do that. That sounds great. You know? Um, I will say it's, it's not the easiest path to take, but I think that is what's given me kind of all of that experience and, and how it's kind of all come, You know, to fruition.
It's, it's been a, I think this has been a really. Um, fun journey at B two thus far and kind of learning and seeing kind of all that stuff come together has been pretty interesting. Not, I didn't, I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't foresee that it would all come together like [00:45:00] this. You know, I didn't foresee that that experience of that ownership group or that experience at Tony Chi or this experience at Marriott, all those coming together is kind of what has made this role be really successful for me.
Um.
Dan: And, and when, when you think about the strategic growth that you're hoping to achieve or you're achieving, but as you plot it out even a couple years out in the future, where do you, like what's the vision for. The different silos of design projects that B two does, and how does your role in hospitality help achieve those long-term goals?
Stephanie: Yeah, I mean our long-term goals are pretty, I mean, we have B two is very, um. We're very goal oriented. So we've got like a one year goal, a three year goal, and a 10 year goal. So, I mean, I have a map. I know exactly what part I'm playing in all of that. And I think the other thing that I really enjoy being a part of is being kind of on the leadership team that's like part of those decisions and part of like how we get there and, and having a voice in, You know, [00:46:00] what the growth is.
And that is, um, so, You know, I think we, we. We definitely wanna grow and keep, I think being diversified has taught everybody a lot And so I think, You know, like our procure, You know, having procurement and multifamily senior and student and then expanding into hospitality just makes sense, right?
Expanding into those adjacents what's next? You know, are we, what? Are we going to, You know, what are some different things? We have a lot of different things that we think about of adding to an adjacent product. Line of whatever that is, like whether we, or warehousing or installers or anything like that, that we're gonna kind of add, we'll just end up complimenting exactly what we do.
Um, kind of gobbling up more of that scope, I guess. Right. Um, so those,
Dan: I
Stephanie: yep.
Dan: think you like having Amber on board and having the design function for hospitality and the purchasing function. There's not many firms that have both of those under one roof, and there's some really [00:47:00] exciting. Possibilities with that. And I've been working through some of, I wrote an article on Substack the other day, but just time is money, right?
And you can shorten a project by 11 to 22 weeks in my experience. And just all about how to do that. We have to have a separate conversation about that because it's really, it's been this amazing kind of thought exercise that's turning into. Real meaningful change within our industry, and I'm lucky enough to have worked on three projects like that.
I'm on my fourth, um, but we'll, we'll talk about that on, on the flip side,
Stephanie: Well, I think it's, I mean, but it's true, right? I think it is the, You know, I mean. The conversation between the procurement and the designers is just like free flowing, right? They're, they're teaming each other and getting the answers. They're not emailing or picking up the phone. They're just like back and forth solving whatever those questions are because we're all in house, You know, we have all over Yeah.
Dan: I thought you said teasing each other. I was like, wait, how
Stephanie: No teaming.
Dan: Oh,
Stephanie: just teaming. Um, [00:48:00] right. Messaging each other back and forth because they can, they're just instant messaging back and forth
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Stephanie: they can. And then, um. You know, and, and I think for the owner, You know, we've, we've worked really hard on that relationship. Not hard, but like we've, we've, they trust us.
They trust, they were like, You know, Steph, what should we do about a procurement agency? And I was like, I have got. We've just added this great team member, let me introduce you to her. Let's talk about it. Right. And we're, we, we're pulling in, You know, a team to kind of help us, um, with that. And so that's, You know, how we're kind of getting it all done.
So we've, we've pulled in a complimentary team to help us with that. Kind of like how we do, we would do with the branding as well. So. They trust us. We're already in the room. We're already having the part of the conversation with them. I would've recommended procurement firms to them anyway. You know, I think they would've, they would've asked us.
'cause they trust us. And I think that to me is that's the real win, um, for me. And then it's a real win for the company. Right. And so I think any, [00:49:00] yeah.
Dan: that function internally is great as an option, but you're also, you have such a great network that whether, You know, sometimes ownership groups want to keep them separate. and, which is great, and you can be agnostic about that, but at least you have options and, and good options. And you, you can act as a filter for who you've had good experience working with in the past.
I also, I, when you said you're very goal oriented and you have the one year, the three year, the tenure, I'm, same thing, drink the same Kool-Aid, the 10 year goal is often terrifying. Right. But it's also the one that can change the most. But I find that if we're all not looking 10 years ahead and being really specific about what we want to be 10 years in the future, whether we get there or not, it helps set the, the goals three at three years become easier one year.
And then, what am I doing this quarter to get there? Having that really, really, really clear vision. Is is critical for any, [00:50:00] any business, and I applaud you all for being so crystal clear on that 10 year
Stephanie: Yeah, and it's, and, and then we do, You know, we just did like our. In January, we had like our annual, um, You know, stay to B two and we kind of, we, we looked back at what we had done over the last three years. So we, we always like harken back to what that is. We look back, we look ahead and it's, I mean, and it feels like, I feel like we have been trudging through mud.
Like, You know, I feel like we have been trudging through mud, but to, to look back on that and to see what we all accomplished.
Dan: three years,
Stephanie: As a team is
Dan: trippier? Okay, the three year one is good, but if you do that every quarter,
Stephanie: we do it every quarter. We do it every,
Dan: how much you forget
Stephanie: yeah,
Dan: the past three
Stephanie: we
Dan: The
Stephanie: we do it every quarter. Yeah. We totally do it. We do it every quarter. I mean it, You know, we do it every quarter. We look back. I think that the transparency, we're super transparent with the teams about like [00:51:00] what we do, where we are. They all know where we are.
They all know like where we're hitting. Financially where we're hitting with purpose. They know, they know the pipeline. They know.
Dan: do you, uh, look back over the quarter of the past three years? Is it, um, do you sticky notes and like post 'em up on a wall? Or like, how does everyone share
Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of different systems. You know, we have a CRM, we have, um, a different platform that we kind of like have meetings and we, we can track it there, but we do the, the quarter look back is we do. You know, we do a big three hour meeting once a quarter where we kind of do a presentation and we look back and we look ahead, and then we send that out to the team and we archive that.
So they have all of that. So even when I do that and go back and looking at it for what our team has done, I'm like, oh my gosh, You know, it, it's amazing and you forget. You kind of, I think it's just nature, right? That you kind of, you, you get something or you do that and then you move forward to the next thing, but you forget to pause and take a minute and look back.
So it's been a.
Dan: it's really
Stephanie: It's been really good. And I think Allison [00:52:00] is really good. What she's really good at is pushing all of us past that comfort zone point of like where that goal should be. And I'm like, whoa. Like I don't think we can get there. I don't know. I have doubt, but she's a good coach, right? And then I look back on it and I'm like, man, you were right.
That is, You know, you're never gonna get there. She's always like, we're never gonna get there unless we put it out there like you're saying. Right. And I think this has been the first. Um, this has been the first time in my career where I have been at the level that I'm on the leadership team, that I can be part of those conversations.
I can talk about them, You know, I can reverb about it. It's, that part has been really fulfilling for, for me. It's also been the hardest part of this job by any means. So I find it to be, I will say that to everybody, whatever is really, really hard is probably gonna be the most fulfilling and probably what's gonna teach you the most, You know?
Dan: I agree. And I think that's a good place to leave it there because I think if anyone else wanted to learn more and connect with you [00:53:00] on, just connect with you, learn more about, you, also learn about B two. Um, this is. I mean, it's just incredible what, what you've accomplished just in the, in the short time. How short has it been? It's been a couple years
Stephanie: It's been two, it's almost two years exactly.
Dan: Yeah. It's wild. And so if someone wanted to learn more about you or B two, what's a good way for them to get in touch?
Stephanie: Um, I mean, any of, all the same things I'm on, You know, Instagram, LinkedIn, email, text, whatevs, You know, I'm around, I think, and if,
Dan: We'll
Stephanie: um,
Dan: we'll put that in the company, um, website and all, um, all in the show notes, so you guys, everyone who's listening or watching can
Stephanie: yeah.
Dan: click and connect. Um, I want to thank you for being my first fan.
Stephanie: Oh, I, I appreciate you, um, and I appreciate our friendship and all the things, right? I think it's just, yeah. Oh, and You know, somebody told me to never bum rush somebody on stage, like, if they come off a panel, don't run up to them. Right. Then don't be that [00:54:00] girl. And I was like, oh no, but that's Dan. I'm totally gonna be that girl.
I think.
Dan: whoever gave you that advice doesn't know what they're talking about,
Stephanie: I, I was like, but that's part of me. I, and, and look, it's good. I've, You know, look at what's happened. And so
Dan: I love it. And I, and I wish you and be too boundless success. I'm so glad Amber's there with you. Can't wait to, I feel like I've met Jimmy at some point.
Stephanie: I feel like if you haven't talked to Jimmy, you should, I feel like you, You know, Amber and, and what, and I think Amber's perspective on, on where she is, is also.
Dan: totally.
Stephanie: She's got some amazing experience. So
Dan: I
Stephanie: note to stop.
Dan: Um, well, and thank you all to our listeners as well, because. It is. I don't know. I feel like is possible. We all don't lose sight of the fact that we all have our own unique set of skills. We all have our own incredible network and we just have to, I don't know. I, Jesse Jackson just died, everyone, and I remember seeing him in [00:55:00] college.
He came to my college and talked to us and at the end made everyone yell, I am somebody. And it was like weird at first, and then everyone started shouting, I am somebody. And I get goosebumps still to this day thinking about it. I wasn't planning on bringing up Jesse Jackson and I don't know what made me think of that, but I'm just going with it. But just know we all are somebody and we
Stephanie: Yeah.
Dan: great things. We just have to have the vision and we have to not be afraid to be that girl rushing up to the stage after, after a a panel.
Stephanie: Yeah, just do it. You never know what it's gonna lead to. You never know. Um, I think just know that you have good skillset out there and, and you're the right person to be at whatever your next, so.
Dan: percent. And if this has changed your idea of hospitality, designing for hospitality, delivering for hospitality, awesome. Please like and subscribe and do all that stuff. But if You know someone who could benefit from this conversation, please do me a favor. Pass it to them because I think. We all just need [00:56:00] to like lean into each other and, and share our life experiences so that we can all grow together. So with that, I wish you well and I will catch you next time.