Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“We’re all salespeople at the end of the day.”
Whether you’re pitching a movie, an idea, or yourself, persuasion is about more than the story you’re telling—it’s also about the story your audience sees for themselves. For Deadpool and Zombieland screenwriter Rhett Reese, that means keeping communication concise, compelling, and centered on what your audience needs. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Reese joins Matt Abrahams to share lessons from screenwriting that apply far beyond Hollywood. From cutting unnecessary words to crafting pitches that make your audience the protagonist, he explores how storytelling, collaboration, and clarity can make any message more persuasive.

Takeaways:
  • Every pitch tells two stories. You’re selling the idea itself, but you’re also showing your audience how saying yes can solve their problem, reduce their risk, and lead to their success.
  • Brevity makes your message stronger. Cutting unnecessary words and choosing them carefully helps your ideas land with greater clarity, impact, and memorability.

Activity:
  • Tell the second story. Take a pitch you’re currently working on and write one sentence describing the idea you’re selling. Then write a second sentence from your audience’s perspective: “If I say yes, what becomes possible for me?” Use that second story to reshape your pitch around their success, not just your idea.
Printable Expanded Takeaways & Activities

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:18) - Make Every Word Count
  • (03:09) - How to Pitch an Idea
  • (07:38) - Creatively Collaborating
  • (10:35) - Creating Space for Feedback
  • (12:49) - AI & the Future of Hollywood
  • (16:44) - The Final Three Questions
  • (23:15) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Rhett Reese
Producer | Screen Writer

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: When communicating,
there are often two stories

being told at the same time.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I'm excited to
speak with Rhett Reese.

Rhett is an acclaimed American
screenwriter and producer best

known for co-writing massive
blockbuster hits like Deadpool,

Zombieland, and GI Joe: Retaliation.

Alongside his longtime collaborative
partner, Paul Wernick, together their

films have grossed over $3 billion.

Rhett has also been very vocal
on the impact of AI on films and

television Well, welcome, Rhett.

Not only am I a huge fan
of yours, we go way back.

Rhett Reese: We do, and I'm so happy you
had me so we could catch up because we do,

we go back all the way to the psychology
department as undergrads many years ago.

Matt Abrahams: At, at Stanford, we
had a professor, Phil Zimbardo, who

was a guest on the show, and he would
have people take tests in pairs.

And we were actually, we took tests
together, and I'm sure you carried me.

Rhett Reese: We each reached out to
each other as a lifeline, I think.

And we got an A, I remember.

We, we did very well on that test.

Matt Abrahams: It was a great class.

Well, I really appreciate you being here.

Thank you.

Rhett Reese: Thank you for having me.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

Shall we get started?

Rhett Reese: Yes, let's do it.

Matt Abrahams: So you've had an
amazingly well accomplished career.

Congratulations.

And you are known for very
witty and punchy lines.

I'm curious, how do you toggle being
really concise and clear in getting

ideas across, but at the same time
being playful and allowing for that

spontaneity that you're known for?

Rhett Reese: Well, I mean, I
do think that comedy, much like

other forms of communication, is
best delivered in short bursts.

I do.

And I am pretty ruthless when it
comes to reducing a line to its

absolute essential, you know, number
of words and its comedic elements.

And when we write comedy, we tend to
try to find a rhythm that ends with

the funniest word of the sentence.

So for instance, we try not to write
past our punchline or to write past

the funniest word because when you're
hearing a joke, you are hearing a setup,

a setup, a setup, and then the word that
contains the surprise or the twist or

the humorous thing that makes you laugh.

And the rhythm is very much like
ba ba ba ba ba ba boom, like that.

You know, it comes at
the end of the sentence.

And if you write past that, if you write a
line that has the funniest word not at the

very end but near the end and you write
extra words, I think what happens to the

brain is that the brain hears the funny
word, it wants to laugh, but then it hears

subsequent words, it needs to assimilate
those words and understand what's being

communicated there, and I think it
somewhat muffles and, or mutes the comedy.

So we really try, whenever we write a line
that's intended to be funny, to pare it

down to its bare minimum, A, and then B,
have it finish with the funniest word.

And that has held us in pretty
good stead, that strategy.

Matt Abrahams: And those very same rules
apply to writing presentations, pitches.

Rhett Reese: Absolutely.

Matt Abrahams: This is
like a reunion show.

Hilary Price, who was a Stanford,
undergrad with us as well,

writes the, uh, single panel
comic strip Rhymes with Orange.

She talks very similarly to you about
whittling it down to what's the essence

of the most important part, the humor.

Because if you think about a one
panel, you gotta do that right away.

Rhett Reese: You, you don't
have a lot of time, yeah.

Matt Abrahams: But it's the same idea
that you have to be thinking about the

exact word, the placement of the word.

So you're echoing that advice that as
we think through our communication,

many of us just wanna get that
information out there, but you

can be very strategic about that.

And I appreciate that.

Let's talk about pitching, because
you've had to pitch a lot of movies.

Do you, beyond sort of seeing it
as a story, which I think is really

important in taking people on that
journey, what other advice and

guidance do you have and have you
learned in the pitching that you do?

Rhett Reese: Well, one of the
things I would say is that we're all

salespeople at the end of the day.

Everybody who works in
freelance work certainly is.

And so we're selling.

When we go into that room,
we're selling, and we're selling

with two stories, really.

The first story is the actual
story we're telling, right?

And we treat it very much like a campfire
story, like we're sitting at a campfire.

when I say we, I've got a writing partner.

We are sitting around a campfire,
and there's someone opposite us,

and it's at camp late at night,
and we are telling them a story.

And we really treat it as such, where we
take the listener's needs into account.

We try to keep it short and fun and funny
and exciting, and it builds, and it has a

climax, just like the actual screenplay.

So that's one story we're telling.

And then I think the second story
we're telling, which is a subtle one,

is one in which the executive to whom
we're pitching is the protagonist,

and we are basically pitching them
a story of their success should they

buy this project, if that makes sense.

Matt Abrahams: No, absolutely.

Rhett Reese: So everybody has got
their own problems and their own

challenges, and an executive's problem
and challenge is, I've only got so

much money, and I've gotta spend it in
ways that are beneficial to my company.

I've gotta buy the right ideas,
and I've gotta make hits.

And in order to do that, I have to
place faith in the right people.

And so I think part of what we do
is sort of pitching them a vision

that, "Hey, we know what we're doing.

You're in really good hands.

You have a problem.

You need good movies," right? Like,
"We are the solution to that problem.

If you decide to hire us, if you decide
to buy this pitch, it is going to lead to

you and your life having greater success.

It is going to pay off down the road.

You are gonna see a vision where
you, the protagonist of your story,

succeed and win out," so to speak.
And I think that, that is the second

story that's very subtly being worked
in, not in a manipulative way, but in

a way that just says, "Look, I'm here
because I have an idea for a movie.

I'm here because I really
believe in that idea.

I'm here because, you know, I kinda
know what I'm doing, and my goal

is to convince you that you can bet
on me and it will succeed for you.

So those are the two stories
that we're telling ultimately.

Matt Abrahams: I really like this
idea that whenever you're pitching,

there are actually really two stories.

The story of the thing you're pitching,
but then the story that you're creating

for the person who needs to buy into that.

Maybe in your case, it's an
executive producer- of a film.

Rhett Reese: But this,
you could apply this to,

Matt Abrahams: A VC, it could
be a boss asking for a raise.

Rhett Reese: You name it.

You know, it's like if you're a
plumber, you could apply that lesson

as you're talking to the client trying
to convince them why to hire you.

Matt Abrahams: I also wanna distinguish,
because we talk a lot on this show about

how we can use frameworks and structure,
and the structure of the story you're

telling for the movies you're pitching or
for the businesses the, the entrepreneurs

are pitching can have a different
structure than that second story.

The second story has the structure
of you have a problem, I have a

solution, and you're gonna benefit
in some way in your personal career.

And the other thing I heard you
say that I think is so important

when pitching is helping the person
understand that you're the safe bet.

Your credibility, in your case,
the experiences that you've had,

that makes the person feel more
comfortable taking the risk on you.

So this notion of two stories.

Rhett Reese: You wanna lower
the risk in their mind and

amplify the reward in their mind.

And really, ultimately, once
the pitch starts, you are,

they're your audience, right?

And it just is no different from
someone who sits down in a darkened

theater or does sit across the
fire at camp and you walk them

through it as if they're seeing it.

You're trying to make them visualize it.

Matt Abrahams: That's right.

And that again is such expert advice
for anybody pitching anything, trying

to persuade, is show, don't tell.

Give people an experience of it.

Don't just tell them and that connects
with them on a much different level.

You mentioned as part of your answer
there that you have a writing partner.

You've done a lot of
work with Paul Wernick.

I've always been fascinated by
collaboration, but especially

collaboration in a creative space, right?

You have deadlines you have to hit.

You have big budget based
on what you're doing.

There's a lot of pressure in that,
but at the same time, you wanna remain

free and creative to do the work.

Any guidance or insight you have from
working so closely with somebody for

so many years, how do you stay creative
but also deliver on time and on budget?

Rhett Reese: We're like
an old married couple.

And we have very famously never fought,
maybe unlike most married couples Things

have gotten slightly testy maybe here
and there, but largely our rule that we

apply to keep things moving and to resolve
conflicts or disputes and make decisions

when we have two brains instead of one,
is that whoever cares the most wins.

That's the rule.

We oftentimes see eye to eye, right?

And we oftentimes someone says an idea
and the other person says, "I love it.

Great, let's do it." Other times we hit a
sticking point, we don't necessarily see

eye to eye or something, we just have a
little bit different vision of what it is.

The conversation will start to ramp
up as we each pitch our version to the

other, trying to convince the other.

And if we don't get to a place where
one of us convinces the other, like

thoroughly convinces the other, it
tends to come down to, "Look, I sense

that you're more passionate about this
and you care more about this than I

do," so tie goes to that person, right?

Like, so let's do it that way.

You clearly start to care more.

And it's a nice way of diffusing
any potential conflict because one

person realizes, "You know, this
is starting to get, under his skin.

It's clear he really, really likes
this, and now I know it's time to

back off and let him have that one.

And then maybe the next time it'll
be me who is, who's more convinced

that I'm right and wants to get
the idea across." So I think that

policy is a pretty darn good one.

We also have a strategy of not
really criticizing or critiquing

each other in front of each other.

So what we do is we split up our
scenes, we send them to each other,

and we don't write together in
the same room, nothing like that.

We're completely in two
different households.

We write them separately.

We email them to each other, and then
we rewrite each other's work from

the privacy and safety of our own
computer, where we can just simply

change everything we don't like.

And then we bold the changes, and
then we send the scenes back and

forth, and we start to un-bold as
we're both happy with something.

But it's a very, very nice way to take a
little bit of the emotion out of it and

a little bit of the whatever could become
testy or territorial and you just get the

document back and some things have been
changed, and some things haven't been

changed, and now it's up to you to pivot
off that and continue to move it forward.

Matt Abrahams: So what's very
impressive is that you've come up with

a system that works for you Did you
guys consciously sit down and think

about it, or did it evolve over time?

Rhett Reese: We did.

We did.

We kinda made those rules.

I think the best thing about
having a partner creatively is

you have a first line of defense
against doing something bad.

I think the toughest thing as a creative
person is that you don't often know

if your material is good or bad.

It's very hard to judge.

You're very subjective.

We have that first audience, right?

That first person who can say, "That
joke isn't funny," or, "That scene

doesn't make sense," or whatever.

So we've got a first line of defense
against writing something poor, and

that is incredibly, incredibly helpful.

But we did need to sort of set these
rules to make it safe to fail and to

have it such that you felt okay when
that document came back and was changed.

There was something sort
of private about it.

Again, that you're seeing his
reactions privately in a room, safe.

our other rule was, if he makes
a change, like, you don't have to

necessarily go with the change.

You can then change it a third time.

But you're not really supposed to go back
to what you had before, unless you've got

a pretty compelling reason to go back.

And the other person, if they made
a change, they made it for a reason,

and it probably wasn't good enough.

And the minute you can set aside
your ego and realize, "Okay, if he

changed that line, it probably wasn't
right. And I don't like his line, so

I'll move off to a third line, but
I'm not gonna go back to the first

line." At least not in most cases.

Matt Abrahams: So the lesson I think
from all of us is to be strategic

about how you collaborate and to
have that meta conversation about

here's how we're gonna do it.

And you found ways that worked.

I really like this idea of the
person who cares the most wins.

It is so typical in a conversation that's
leading to conflict to assume that the

other person cares as much as you do.

And so much so that my wife
and I, we learned this tool,

a technique from some friends.

If we have something that might
lead to conflict, we, on a scale of

one to ten, declare our priority.

So let's imagine she and I wanna
go out to dinner and she wants

Mexican food, I want Italian food.

She might say it's an eight
and I'm saying it's a four,

then we don't have the conflict

Rhett Reese: There you go.

That's a great example.

Matt Abrahams: And I love the, I love
this idea of how the other person

cares, and then I like this idea of not
having the confrontation immediately,

giving yourself time to think about
it, but knowing that if there is still

ambiguity or debate, that you will
come together and actually discuss it.

Rhett Reese: There's a path.

There's a path.

Matt Abrahams: Really interesting.

I'd love to move into the world of AI.

And I'm actually going to read some notes,
because you have some quotes that you made

that actually took a life of their own.

So you have some opinions on AI and the
impact on the type of work that you do.

As a result of a viral video that went
out that shows a fight scene between

Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt that never
happened, it was all AI generated.

You said, "It sent chills down my spine.

For people who have devoted their
careers and lives to the film

industry, this is truly frightening.

I can already see jobs disappearing."
But in a separate situation or time,

you said, "Hollywood has long been
a gatekeeper that keeps young, poor

people away from creative levers.

When a young person with no capital sets
out to impress Hollywood, they can use

tools like these, and young Chris Nolans
will be among them, and amazing stuff will

result." Those two quotes seem almost,

Rhett Reese: They are.

Matt Abrahams: schizophrenic
in their different sides.

So I'm curious where are your thoughts?

And it's okay to say it's ambiguous
'cause I feel the same way.

Rhett Reese: Yeah, I mean,
look, I think it is ambiguous.

I think we're all in a place where
we're being confronted with this

new wave of technology, and we have
to decide how we feel about it.

And I think it's okay for there to
be two answers to the same question.

I would say, if I had to put a number
on it, I'm about 85% terrified and

about 15% really excited, right?

Like, so the 85% is I'm set aside the
existential issues of, is AI gonna blow

us all up, or is it gonna fall into the
wrong hands, and is someone going to

nefariously use it to blow us all up?

You know, set aside those questions
and look at questions of joblessness

and particular professions.

There may only be a few now, but I think
that's gonna be a growing number of

professions where a computer ultimately
can do a better job than a person.

That is where my fear lies for Hollywood.

AI is a big elephant, and I'm only
touching one part of the elephant, so

to speak, metaphorically, so I'm only
seeing it through my own specific

lens and my own specific career.

But I can see when I watch that Brad
Pitt, Tom Cruise video, that there are

going to be the means in the hands of
creators that provide crazy shortcuts

to producing Hollywood quality material,
to the point where, you know, a lot of

people will likely lose their job over
time as it becomes clear to the money

spenders that there are cheaper ways
to make a movie than to go out into the

field with an army of people in some
far-flung place and shoot for months.

When those bells ring and those
people decide, "Oh, there's a

cheaper way to do this," they're
going to take those cheaper ways.

On the other side of the equation, I do
think it is likely that within the next

three years probably, someone is going
to be able to sit at a keyboard and

use various tools, probably provided by
different companies, depending on the

task that they're approaching at the time,
to create a Hollywood quality movie, by

themselves without ever going onto a set
and without ever hiring an actor or maybe

even a writer and create something that is
digestible and entertaining and awesome.

Now, will there be a lot of slop that
results from processes like that?

Absolutely.

There's gonna be a lot of slop.

But among those people are going
to be people who Hollywood kept at

arm's length for whatever reason,
and they've decided, "You know what?

I'm gonna go around Hollywood.

I'm gonna do this on my own.

I'm gonna create something amazing.

I'm gonna show them what I'm capable
of." And among those people are going

to be the Chris Nolans and the Charlie
Chaplins and the true auteurs, right?

And when that happens, it
is going to be a revolution.

And I love the idea of somebody being able
to scale the Hollywood walls, via another

means and go directly to the people, you
know, so to speak, and fight the man.

I love that idea.

I think it's really cool.

That's the 15% of me.

And the 85% of me is super nervous.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah, I hear the ambiguity
in your voice, and I think it's not

unreasonable to be very concerned for
all the reasons that you've talked about.

But there is this notion that people
who have not had access, getting

access, I think, is really interesting.

So before we end, I ask three
questions of everybody, one I make

up just for you, and two I've been
asking people for a long time.

Are you up for that?

Rhett Reese: Yes, let's do it.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

You have been very successful,
especially in a certain genre of film.

How do you feel about being, I don't
wanna say pigeonholed, but people

come to you expecting a certain
thing because you're very good at it.

I can imagine somebody as talented as you
might have other ideas for other things.

And a lot of us in our roles and
our jobs, you know, people see us as

you're really good at that, and they
keep coming to you back for that.

Yes.

And it in some ways can be constraining.

How do you deal with that the
constraints from your success?

Rhett Reese: Yes, a very
interesting question.

Hollywood's quick to pigeonhole, right?

They're quick to typecast.

Paul and I have done what we can to, as
we take on subsequent jobs, to try to move

half steps away from what we did before.

Nothing too great of a leap, but like
for instance, we wrote Zombieland

first was our sort of our first
feature, screenplay that we did

together, and it was a horror comedy.

And after that we got a lot
of submissions for vampires,

werewolves, that kind of thing.

And we decided to take a half step
away and do a, an action comedy, but

not a horror action comedy, right?

Like, so we did that.

And then after that we did a
straight action movie that was

not comedy but had action in it.

And then we did a romantic comedy.

You know what I mean?

So we were taking half steps away.

Over time, what that allowed us to do was
to create a resume that we could point to

and say, "Look, we can do drama, we can
do comedy, we can do science fiction, we

can do superheroes, we can do horror."
So we were careful about that, to try

to slowly broaden the resume because
you're right, people will, immediately

see you do something well and then want
to keep you doing that thing forever.

And so that was very, very
intentional on our part.

On the other hand, there are worse
things than having a brand, right?

Like, you know, having a brand that's
saleable, that people can trust and

that they feel like, "Hey, if we
need this, then we need to hire them

because this is what they do." And
we have had success, and we have

made a point of creating a brand

. Matt Abrahams: I think you clearly
articulated that having a brand is

important, but I like this idea of half
step, of where's the boundary and can

we push it just a little bit, and then
that gives you a wider circumference,

when you can say, "Here's, we can do
these things." That's really important.

Question number two, who's a
communicator you admire and why?

Rhett Reese: My favorite
communicator is Sam Harris.

He went to Stanford.

He is a sort of a philosopher, thinker,
a writer on things like religion and

politics and any number of topics.

But what I love about him is that he
has this almost supernatural ability

to speak extemporaneously in complete,
not only sentences, but paragraphs.

And he doesn't use a lot of the
annoying little utterances that we

all have, like you know, and I mean,
and like, and sort of, and kind of.

And when you start to hear
those things, you ignore them.

Your brain ignores them.

But on some level it's taking them in
and it's making a speaker who's trying

to be clear and trying to, emphasize
a point or make a point a little less

adept at it because it just kind of
drags the text down a little bit.

But Sam speaks so eloquently
with such great word choice.

Matt Abrahams: He is very articulate,
and I really appreciate that part

of what you like about him is not
only that he's a good extemporaneous

speaker, but that he's very good at
being broad but also specific, and

word choice is really important.

Rhett Reese: Very much so.

Matt Abrahams: Final question.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Rhett Reese: I think the first is honesty.

I mean, there's a, I forget
the Dr. Seuss book, I Say What

I Mean and I Mean What I Say.

It might have been Horton Hears
a Who or something like that.

But I really do think that honesty
is the most important bedrock

of any bit of communication.

When you lose faith in a speaker's
honesty, right, you can take

almost nothing from what they say.

You know, most people don't lie all the
time, but if you lie some of the time,

or if you're selling something or putting
a spin on something, and it's not true,

either your audience is gonna take that
communication and go into the world

with it thinking that it was true and
end up falling on their face, which is

terrible, or they're going to hear a lie
somewhere in there, and it's gonna destroy

the credibility of what you're saying.

In a world of fake news and AI slop and
all this stuff where people are spinning

things and trying to be partisan and
trying to sneak, you know, untruths into

to communication, I think almost the
most important communication skill is

just honesty, is just to really believe,
like, if I'm selling something, I wanna

really believe in that product, right?

I wanna believe that when I
say, "Hey, this is a good story.

You're gonna like this, and you
should buy this," that I mean it.

I'm not faking it, right?

I'm not being dishonest.

Matt Abrahams: So honesty.

Rhett Reese: Honesty.

The second one I would choose would be
just considering your audience, right?

Like, every piece of communication, in
theory, is delivered to somebody specific.

Maybe you're talking to a crowd of
millions like the president might

or something like that, but most
often in our lives, we're talking

to a specific person, and I think so
much of what we communicate to them

needs to be tailored to them, right?

Like, if I'm talking to my
four-year-old, it's a very different me.

I'm trying to make something
that will appeal to him and he'll

understand and he'll latch into.

And if I'm talking to my dad, that's
a whole different conversation.

And I probably say If I had to
pick a third, it would be a little

bit of the brevity and the clarity
and just trying to keep things as

sparse and as simple as possible.

We all have only so much time in
this world and, it is a drag to

be around that person who talks in
circles and repeats themselves and

is redundant and goes on tangents.

And it's nice to have to talk to someone
who gets to the point and communicates

what it is they're trying to communicate.

Matt Abrahams: Honesty, understanding
your audience, being concise

and clear, very important.

And you role model that in the work that
you do, and it's been wonderful, Rhett.

And your insights are really fascinating.

And as somebody who has enjoyed
and admired your work from afar,

laughing and eating lots of
popcorn it has been a lot of fun.

Thank you.

Rhett Reese: Thank you so much.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining
us for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about communication
in films, please listen to

episode 167 with Jeff Small.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with
special thanks to our friends at Spotify

Los Angeles and Podium Podcast Company.

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