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Students share honest dialogue about love, relationships, dating, and sex on Michigan State University's campus.
When conversations about love and sex arise, sometimes people only hit the surface.
Elle:With us, we're gonna dive deeper.
Anthony:I'm Anthony Brinson.
Elle:I'm Elle Fromm. And this is the Going Deeper podcast. Team, I'm gonna be honest with you guys. We are recording this on Good Friday. Anthony and myself are both Christian.
Elle:This is a little strange for us, but, obviously, number 1, religious beliefs shouldn't overly impact your job. But 2, I don't think that love and sex topics should always, if at all, run contrary to sex and love or to religion. Good lord. Mhmm.
Anthony:Yeah.
Elle:So it's an interesting thing to to think about, because usually, I know a lot of people have trauma when it comes to love and sex because of religious experiences they've had Mhmm. Or things they've been told, like, purity culture is a big thing in a lot of religious communities. And I also don't wanna make any generalizing statements just about religion. It's such a vast topic that yeah. Yeah.
Elle:Like, I think to say religion is against love and sex is way too vague, which is not the point I was trying to make. Mhmm. But it is a little it is a little it it is a little strange to be doing this today.
Anthony:Yeah. I didn't even pick up on that till, Elle mentioned, and I was like, wow. That is this is Good Friday. And so anybody who celebrates Easter or if you are religious and consider it as resurrection Sunday, then happy those days. Mhmm.
Anthony:And also, I was telling the elves And
Elle:even if you don't or if you celebrate a secular Easter or you don't celebrate it at all, have a good weekend.
Anthony:Yeah.
Elle:Also, last Saturday, I think I think it was last Saturday or last Monday. It was Monday. Last Monday was, Holi, which is a Hindu holiday and festival that is celebrated, I think, even by people who might not be, like, very observant
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Hindus. Like, it's, I'm sure there's a secular aspect to it. It's the one with the colors. Do you know that one?
Anthony:Not really, hip to it. Nope. Oh, that look like like Mardi Gras. It's that's what it reminds me of
Elle:A little.
Anthony:The aesthetic of Mardi Gras.
Elle:I'm not super from it's known as the Festival of Colors Love in Spring.
Anthony:Oh, wow.
Elle:And there's religious significance to it that I am not aware of, so I would hate to misconstrue that. But it it was I was joking with a friend of mine who celebrates it, and I was, like, oh, it's holy on holy week. I was, like, look at that.
Anthony:And it's so, crazy as well. I was telling, you know, I had a Uber driver who I was, they were we were talking a bit, and I had asked him, like, are you celebrating the holidays? Are you celebrating Easter? And they were Persian. That's how you'd say it, Persian.
Anthony:And they were saying, like, well, no. I don't celebrate Easter, but it's my New Year. And I'm like, oh, wow. I would have never known that if I didn't talk to Zuperdriver.
Elle:Well, because unfortunately, in America, a lot of our a lot of the religious assumptions are automatically Christmas or or Christian holidays. Mhmm. That's what I meant to say, but Christmas still works. Like, this year, here at MSU, exams are scheduled during Passover.
Anthony:Really?
Elle:Yeah. And and students who observe Passover have to they are the ones that have to reach out and seek an exemption, and an alternate time will be scheduled for them. Mhmm. But the fact that it was done that way to begin with is not something that would happen on a Christian holiday, in my opinion, and the state news has done coverage on this topic that you should all check But it's very yeah. Our our assumptions of what religious holidays the larger country as a whole observes aren't just based on personal experience.
Elle:Because in my I went to Catholic school. My spring break was always called Easter break. It was always the week of Easter versus here. Ours was a couple weeks ago.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:But it's not just those personal experiences because even people who are not Christians know about Christian holidays. They know what Christmas is. They probably I don't wanna make generalizations, but they probably know that Easter celebrates the resurrection of Jesus. Mhmm. Whereas, I don't know much of I I try to educate myself, but I don't know much about holidays and other religions or cultural holidays, like, it's something that I've I've learned from myself and not something I'm expected to know the way that non Christians are expected to know in America about Christian holidays.
Elle:And for those of you who aren't watching but are listening, I did put the second expected to know in air quotes.
Anthony:Mhmm. And with all that being said, it'd be good if you'd wanna transition into the disclaimer before our topic. Just
Elle:Yes. That was just our little chit chat. Today's topic is birth control. And at the start, we want to clarify we are not medical professionals. Our discussion today does not constitute any form of medical advice.
Elle:We We just wanna bring awareness to this, talk about some myths, the different forms of birth control. But if you or anyone you know wants to go on birth control, is on birth control, has any questions about it, ask your doctor or your primary care provider, like a nurse practitioner, or it's like my my c my PCP is a nurse practitioner. Yeah. This is meant to be to start a discussion, but it is not medical advice. Please keep that in mind.
Elle:Thank you.
Anthony:And also just the general disclaimer of the podcast that just in case we have another chitchat moment, these are the opinions of Ellen and I in the Going Deeper podcast and not the opinions of the state news.
Elle:That's very true. So I this is something back when we first started the podcast, I always wanted to do an episode on, but we picked this week to do it. I don't know because we picked this week to do it, because of a recent pop culture news event. Olivia Rodrigo, the pop star, for those of you who don't know who she is, I'm personally a big fan. She just released the deluxe version of her second album.
Elle:Really? It's amazing. She has a song on there called Scared of My Guitar where she talks about being scared to write songs because she knows that it'll express her real feelings. And she says, like, she's saying, I can't lie to it the same way that I lie to you. And then she says, so we'll stay together because how could I ever trade something that's good for what's right?
Anthony:Wow. I'm also a, Olivia Rodrigo fan, but, that is impressive.
Elle:That one's my current favorite because not because I relate to it, to be clear, but I like songs about feelings that people usually don't talk about, like, more icky type of feelings. Like, she has a song called on her first album, my favorite song on the album is happier, where she says she's talking about her ex and his new girl, and she says, I hope you're happy just not like how you were with me. Like, I want you to be happier, but not as happy as we were. I hope you're happy, but don't be happier is the line of the song. So I like songs where it's like, oh, you shouldn't you shouldn't be feeling that way.
Elle:Mhmm. But we're gonna express it because sometimes people do feel that way. And she also has a song on there. One of her a lot of her songs tend to be a bit on the sadder side, but she has one there on there called So American that is about her new boyfriend, and I think it's a very cute song.
Anthony:Oh, she has one? Oh, wow. Shout out
Elle:shout out. Her deluxe album is so good. It has that and it has, what's that song called? Oh, Girl I've Always Been, which has sort of a a folk type song inspired sound. It reminds me of the songs from the new Hunger Games movie a little bit.
Elle:Mhmm. Anyway, Olivia Rodrigo, she's, I think she's on tour right now. I know some people she just came to Detroit. Some friends of mine got to see her. It's fine.
Elle:I'm not jealous, But she sparked some controversy because at a Missouri concert, to quote this Variety article, Olivia Rodrigo makes free emergency birth control pills available at Missouri concert after the state narrows reproductive rights. That is by an Ethan Chanfeld from Variety because, you know, we set our sources here. I heard about this on Twitter or X initially, and I thought it was really interesting because I think it's something I'm personally in favor of is more accessible access accessible access, my lord, access to birth control, because we're gonna talk today about we're gonna do a vocab section on the different types of birth control, then we're gonna go over the pros and cons of some, then we're gonna talk about barriers to access, then we're gonna tie it back into obviously the idea of sex and love, although it's pretty clearly related. Yeah. That's that's today's outline.
Elle:I usually don't share the outline, but it's on my computer. And today's might be a little shorter because we're heading home for, the holidays this weekend. Mhmm. So so the controversy it sparked in large some people were, like, she as a pop star has no right to be doing this to begin with. A couple people were upset because she has a younger fan base, and they were, like, children don't need to see this or be exposed to this.
Elle:And I'll say it again, although it doesn't, in my opinion, bear repeating because we've discussed this before. I believe in sex education from a young age. Appropriate sex education in the sense of sex education when you're very young can look like just knowing the anatomical name for your body parts and knowing what they are so that if, god forbid, something does happen to you, you can identify it. Mhmm. So people who are saying, like, her fans are too young to see this.
Elle:First of all, young people have sex regardless of whether or not you tell them to. The question is, are they going to do it safely? Mhmm. And that's not even young people. That could be older people.
Elle:That can be literally anyone.
Anthony:I agree.
Elle:Like, there's did you know that there's a large we talked about STDs couple weeks ago. There's a STDs are very common in nursing homes and among elder communities as well. Wow. We just tend to think of them as something that only affect young people, which is not true. So, yeah.
Elle:And also in my opinion, if your child is old enough to go to a concert by themselves, then that's what they're going to see. And if you think they're young young and young young enough for you to accompany them, then that's just it gets passed out and, like, you take it and they say, like, what is that? And you either explain it to them or you say, like, oh, this is something you don't need to know about until you're older. But I don't think any I think a lot of these constitute personal opinions, and none of that is enough to stop a pastor, who is an adult, from trying to educate her fan base because she started her, she started an, a a fund for good. It's an initiative that helps this women or AFAB people seeking reproductive rights and freedom and also education and stuff like that.
Elle:That's an initiative she takes as an adult. It's her concert. That's she's she's allowed to do that. Mhmm. So I thought that was personally something I was I was it was very cool to see.
Elle:Because I often wonder, although, women or if people had 20 years ago had more reproductive rights than we do now, which is very sad, I I asked myself, like, oh, what would happen if a pop star had done this 20 years ago? Mhmm. And it's possible they have, and I just don't know about it. But I I think it might have received a different response. So it's cool to see young people like, I think she was very brave to do that, personally.
Anthony:Yeah. When Elle first told me about this, I was really like I lit up. Like, wow. That is incredible for her to do because especially as a male representing person or just somebody who identifies as a man. It's always been weird to me that, like, condoms are free or given out a lot of times, but things like birth control or plan b, you have to, like, not only pay for it, but they'd be expensive sometimes.
Anthony:So it's very mind boggling to think of, like, the difference in accessibility in terms of on one end, yeah, if you wanna go do it, do it. Just wear a condom. But if on a on woman's end, from what I see sometimes, it's like, yeah. Make sure you take this responsibility. You go get this.
Anthony:You so it's it'll just be weird.
Elle:Because we were talking about this. And to be clear, when people say birth control, there are so many things that that could mean
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Which is our next section is sort of, like, vocab. So and I wanna be clear, if we skip 1 or if there's one that you know that isn't addressed, there are so many different types of birth control. I'm just gonna say it's possible we might miss 1, but the idea is, like, I'm putting this in quotes, like, natural birth control would be, like, abstinence, fertility tracking, the pullout method, stuff like that. And a lot of these are often done in conjunction with one another because birth control doesn't always mean preventing pregnancy. We tend to think of it that way, but if you are trying to get pregnant, you probably would engage in fertility tracking
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:And then have, unprotected sex when you are ovulating or just before you're ovulating, I don't really know all the science of it, to try to increase your chances of pregnancy. Mhmm. And then we've got physical, which are like condoms, dental dams, non hormonal IUDs. Chemical would be the pill, the patch, implants that go in your arm, chemical IUDs, and then surgical would be like having your tubes tied or having a vasectomy. But another thing I think it's important to address is despite the contrary and varied personal opinions, people in this country have about abortion, scientifically, many people consider it to be a form of birth control.
Elle:Mhmm. Because the pill that Olivia Rodrigo gave out, it wasn't birth control pills. It was an emergency contraceptive that many people refer to as plan b, but similar to, like, Kleenex and Tissue, I think that's actually a brand name. Oh, wow. So an emergency contraceptive that helps prevent pregnancy when taken within 72 hours of, unprotected sex, which many people know about the existence of.
Elle:If you don't, that's what it is. It's available at, like, CVS, grocery. It's, like, 50 to plan b. I know it's, like, $50.
Anthony:Yeah. Which is insane. Expensive Yeah. In my opinion. Yeah.
Elle:I I think it's but also, yeah, so there there's a lot of different types. There's a lot of feelings people have, and I don't we're not gonna talk about abortion too much today. I think if we were to do that, it would probably be a separate episode.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:But I will say that there is so much misinformation, anti abortion rights activists, which AP style, which is what journalism uses. We don't use the terms pro life or pro choice or anti choice, which is what some people use. It we advocate for using the terms pro abortion rights and anti abortion rights, But sometimes anti abortion rights activists will show images that are not accurate. They'll say, like, this is what your, air quotes again, killing, and it's a picture of, like, a fetus at, like, 35 weeks.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:And that is like, even states that do have reproductive freedom and laws like Michigan, thankfully, in in almost I think in every single state, and, we can talk about this more if we do an abortion episode, late term abortions are only done in terms of medical necessity. So what abortion actually looks like can be literally just taking a pill either I don't I don't think it's a plan b. There's like 2 you have to take. It can be taking a pill, and a clump of cells leaves your body. That's what it is.
Elle:The only time that that that 35 term fetus that gets used a lot is being, like, surgically removed is in terms of medical necessity, and in my opinion, 10 times out of 10, not something the mother or the AFAB parent wanted. That it's usually a tragedy, and it only has to be done because of their health and they're devastated, and the last thing that they need is somebody yelling at them and calling them like a murderer. So we're gonna like I said, it's usually just you go. You you take, like I think there's 2 pills that you take, and then a clump of cells leaves your body. That's what it is on a on a scientific medical level, and it is my personal opinion, again, me personally, not that of the sick news, that, those when we make legislative decisions, that's what they are based on.
Elle:Facts, science, not personal beliefs. So, yeah. But we're gonna keep our focus on, like, preventative forms of birth control. Or like I said, birth control can be when you're trying to have a baby, which wouldn't be preventative, but you get the idea. Because most of these are, ways to prevent pregnancy or in some cases, prevent STDs and STIs, which we did an episode on.
Elle:So, yeah, how many forms of birth control would you say you are familiar with? Like, which ones have you heard of?
Anthony:The pill, the shot, and then, the IUD.
Elle:Those condoms probably. Right?
Anthony:Oh, I don't when I think of birth control, I don't even I don't think of condoms.
Elle:Really? Because I consider that the most that's the one I think of first.
Anthony:Wow. That's pretty surprising. When I think of condoms, I think of well, I guess if we break it down to a pregnancy preventer, which would, I guess, in theory, be birth control.
Elle:That is what I that's that's what I'm talking about. Because even when people say birth control, they don't always mean the same thing.
Anthony:Yeah. I usually always think of more so the women, the woman, or the, AFAB person when I think of birth control in terms of, like, they're taking birth control, which is kinda makes my point in terms of how things are really structured from
Elle:Mhmm.
Anthony:The man's side and the woman's side. Like, the main one I usually think of is the PO. Yeah.
Elle:Hang on. I I was the okay. Okay. I'm when I said hang on, I wasn't being rude. Also, I don't know if the microphone can pick this up, but today is good Friday.
Elle:I am fasting. Do you hear my stomach growl? But it's happened twice, and I don't know if it's been I haven't heard it. So I didn't hear it on my headphones, but, like, if it did happen, I'm sorry. So I saw this online somewhere, and I was telling Anthony about this before the episode started.
Elle:A person who is, assigned male at birth, AMAB, and hasn't had, like, a vasectomy or something like that. And and this is up until, like, sometimes death. Within 40 weeks, which is the gestational, that just means pregnancy, gestational period, for, humans, for AFAB people, an AMAB person, if they had sex every single day with a different AFAB person for 40 weeks could get 280 people pregnant. In that same 40 weeks, an AFAB person can have one child, one pregnancy, and yet the majority of birth control is targeted towards AFAB people. And I think it's because they carry literally the burden.
Elle:They are the one we are the ones who would have to be pregnant and carry the child and make those very, very difficult personal decisions about whether or not that's what we want for our life, yada yada yada. So the responsibility tends to fall on AFAB people who are usually, cisgender women, and women are already marginalized. Mhmm. So
Anthony:And just for clarification, you weren't referring to the child as the burden. You were referring to the
Elle:The physical experience of pregnancy. That is a debilitating in many in many ways and cases and for many people. Because, again, if we do, in a more deep dive on abortion, people say, like, oh, just give it up for adoption. You still had to be pregnant.
Anthony:Yeah. Like
Elle:and it's very magical for some people, but it's also horrible for some other people. And, usually, we only talk about the beautiful parts of it and not, like, constantly getting up to pee. The fact that you might need stitches, not being able to sleep, like, almost every part of your health is impacted.
Anthony:You could've stopped that just, having to go, keep peeing. That alone to make get me irritated and give even more respect to women. Like, y'all y'all deal with that for 9 months.
Elle:Not to mention
Anthony:Lord.
Elle:AFAB people, in in the majority of cases, can only have children between their first period and menopause. So Which is usually menopause, like, usually for a AFAB person is in their fifties. On but it can be earlier, it can be later. Like, that time I got 2 hot flashes when I was a junior in high school and convinced myself I was going through premature menopause, I wasn't. Because because even premature menopause is like your thirties.
Elle:Mhmm. And I was totally fine. I just had 2 hot flashes and blew the entire thing way out of proportion. Very unbrid for me. I like having the cameras, because I like having someone to look.
Elle:Mhmm.
Anthony:Just look at out of,
Elle:But that that ends at menopause.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Whereas, AMAB people can have produce sperm many time up until death.
Anthony:Oh, we can?
Elle:Yeah. You didn't know that?
Anthony:I didn't know that. But it, like, just stopped at some point. Like, tank just eat empty.
Elle:No. That's that's what it is for for people with uterine.
Anthony:Wow. That's insane. That's the plural of uterine. Her vocab shout out Elle's vocabulary.
Elle:I mean, you can say uteruses. It's just way more fun to say uterine.
Anthony:Yeah. I didn't know that was a form of u that is
Elle:It's so much more fun to say.
Anthony:And then, like, the other word where you it was the I think a g for pregnancy, gest
Elle:Gestation.
Anthony:And then she said another the d word, it was something.
Elle:Well, I found out that it was gestation because I saw something that was, like, elephants gestational period is 3 years.
Anthony:Oh. And I
Elle:was like, what does that mean? So I googled it, and elephants are pregnant for 3 years.
Anthony:That is oh.
Elle:Oof. Doesn't that sound atrocious? But I suppose I mean, their bodies are different. How long? I'm googling this just to make sure.
Anthony:While you're doing that, I also had a question. If you wouldn't know or if you could Google it quickly, what's the you said the period from 1st period to menopause. What's the youngest, AFAB person could or just people experience periods could experience a period? And then the latest of menopause.
Elle:I would okay. When when you say the youngest, there are, like, it it's like how do you like, people say average or, like, me what average and me?
Anthony:I didn't wanna say yeah. I didn't wanna say average.
Elle:Well, the thing is there are cases where it can be as young as, like, 7. Like but they're very, very rare.
Anthony:Say 8 off guess, but I'd want to make sure. So 7 to then what's the latest, man, to play? You said fifties?
Elle:No. The latest would be would be much later than that. Let's let's see if we can find the latest recorded. Oh, wait. Is that song copyright?
Anthony:I don't know, but that's what I
Elle:don't think so. I hear it all the time.
Anthony:I was gonna start singing the song, but I'm like, I don't know about copyright. So I'm just the tune. Shout out to Weeknd if you can repeat the song I'm humming. But
Elle:Yeah. That's the average. I'm looking for according to Mount Sinai dot org, which is a hospital, it says as early as age 40, as late as the early sixties, but I'm sure there is a case, like, the latest recorded case could be much higher than that, like, 70, would be my guess. So but but still, like, personally, I got my first period when I was 12.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:And I don't know when I'm gonna reach menopause, obviously. But it it tends to be generational, so it would probably be around the same age that women in my family do.
Anthony:Just to address Which I
Elle:don't know offhand, and also I don't know that I feel comfortable sharing.
Anthony:Just to address it, what is menopause?
Elle:So menopause is, AFAB people are born with all of their eggs in their ovaries. And, again, I'm sure there are medical instances where that's not true, but most people, most A5 people are born with all of their eggs in their ovaries, and then you release, usually, release one every 28 days or that's why periods aren't always once a month, but they're usually once a month. You release 1 a month, and then, eventually, they just run out, and that's menopause.
Anthony:And then
Elle:you don't have any more periods.
Anthony:Also
Elle:But menopause is more than just that. That's the the main thing, but there are others sim like, hot flashes. There are other physical symptoms that you go through.
Anthony:Another thing, I think I'm pretty sure this relates to periods, but what is PMSing?
Elle:Premenstrual syndrome.
Anthony:Which is oh, like symptoms before you get your period?
Elle:We should do a period episode.
Anthony:This this
Elle:uncontrol idea is just giving me so many other ideas. So we're gonna yeah. Yeah. It's premenstrual syndrome.
Anthony:Okay. Cool.
Elle:It's a physical and emotional symptoms that start, 1 to 2 weeks before your period according to medlineplus.gov. So, yeah, we might do a period episode or because we wanna do an anatomy. That that would be an anatomy of sex then. Periods are not sex, obviously. Mhmm.
Elle:Yes. But birth control methods, the ones that people tend to know are probably the ones we're gonna discuss today because science is always advancing. I'm sure there are news new stuff coming out. I mean, I I would love to see birth control targeted towards AMAB people for the reasons I just mentioned, you know, the whole 240 people that that could be impregnated 280. Versus no.
Elle:It's 240.
Anthony:Oh, no. It's 40
Elle:times 7. 280. Yeah. Can y'all I'm not good at math, Or remembering because I Googled it. So but if you want, like, if you're listening to this and you want, like, to see the stuff that you just you can go to planned parenthood and they have, like, literally, this is what I'm I do more research than just this, but they have
Anthony:Show the
Elle:camera if you can too. Can I? I don't know if that
Anthony:that would come across.
Elle:Oh, okay. Cool. Because just because, like, sometimes you try to show a screen on camera and it lights up so bright that you can't see it. But, like, they you can it will tell you even before you click on them to get more information, it says how effective it is, what the cost is, and how long it lasts. And those are the things that we were gonna talk about which are reversible, which protect which which protect against STIs, which are like a one time use, and the accuracy margin.
Elle:So those of you who have seen Friends will know that condoms are not a 100% effective. Oh, that's what you it took me a minute to recognize it. Yeah. They're, like, on average, again, according to Planned Parenthood, 87% effective.
Anthony:Which one specifically? Condubs.
Elle:Okay. So Is
Anthony:that 13% well, I you probably wouldn't notice off top of your head, but I I wonder if that 13% is involving, like, if it breaks or rips or
Elle:Yeah. Because a lot a lot of this is, like, birth the birth control pill is a phenomenal example. Its effectiveness is if you take it every day, or I think there's, like, a day you don't take it. I haven't personally tried it. So but, yeah, what a lot of the I assume the effectiveness, I wouldn't know for condoms, but I know for birth control pills are based on how well you apply it.
Elle:Mhmm. Because if, like, you put a condom on wrong, it might not work. Like, usually, if you put it on wrong, you can tell that it's not wrong. Mhmm. Like, it's kinda obvious, and then you're, like, is this inside out?
Elle:And then it's just, like, why? Maybe we should just watch this movie, like sorry. I I also, I wear contact lenses, and those can be you can put do you know you can put your contacts on inside out?
Anthony:Very recently I learned that.
Elle:It's the most infuriating thing in the world, because when you're trying to look at it to see if it's inside out, it's kinda hard to tell. Yeah. So I think condoms are probably the most well known form of birth control outside of, the pull out method, abstinence, that kind of stuff. Because I I think it's because of cost, and often they are given out for free. Mhmm.
Elle:Like, I feel like I'm not sure where I've seen them. I've see I've seen them in dorm halls. I have seen them like, we are on a college campus. I I feel like I see them a lot.
Anthony:My freshman year, I think it was my freshman year, they had an event where they quite literally just gave out condoms. Yeah. There's a big table full of them. And it was like, here and this like, I was walking by and it's like, here, take a condom. I was like, okay.
Anthony:Cool.
Elle:Yeah. If you've been if you've been to, pride parades or celebrations, they have them there too. There there's there's lots of they're quite easy to get. You know what? I'm gonna look something up because I Type
Anthony:type type. Type type type.
Elle:I wonder how old you have to be to buy them.
Anthony:There's a agent?
Elle:I would I'm saying is there. You do not have to be 18. You should not get carded for buying condoms, and a clerk cannot legally refuse to sell them to you without looking at your ID. And if they ask your age, you do not have to answer. Because that's what we were talking about how young people are going to have sex regardless.
Elle:And, hopefully, it's consensual and within I I don't wanna get into this, but, like, 2 or 3 years of their age. Mhmm. I would say 2 years, but, yeah. So you don't have to be 18 to buy condoms, whereas that there I think the reason condoms are so well known and often chosen by people is they are a one time use. They're cheap and very easy to get in, hopefully, at least where we live.
Elle:I mean, obviously, that's probably not the case in other places, but of all the stuff on this list, I think it's the easiest because some of these things you need prescriptions for, and I think the birth control pill has gotten much much better in that respect where you don't have to see a medical professional to get it anymore.
Anthony:Really? No. You can get it.
Elle:There's lots of places you can get it. And I mean, hopefully, you are your primary care physician is aware that you're taking it, and you know the side effects and the risks and stuff, but it's becoming more accessible. And then, like, yeah. But the the the things to consider are, like like, an IUD, for example, is a very controversial Let me rephrase that. You don't need to edit out, but an IUD is is, is an often discussed form of birth control because it is, in terms of preventing pregnancy, the most effective.
Elle:Again, outside of abstinence, because I I told you I'm not doing that. An IUD I said I'm not talking about it, but I'm also not doing it personally.
Anthony:An IUD is the, the form of birth control where it's inside. Right?
Elle:Yeah. Yeah. It looks like a little t.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:There are non hormonal IUDs and just physical IUDs. So the idea is that, it just stops the yeah, that's what it does.
Anthony:I actually didn't know there was a non hormonal version. Mhmm. It's pretty cool.
Elle:Yeah. Look at here. What is what are non hormonal IUDs? It's a tiny device. It goes in your uterus.
Elle:Well, I
Anthony:can't see your computer, but what does IUD stand for? I can't read it.
Elle:Intrauterine device. And I know that because one time, I got it confused with IED, which is a bomb. Oh. Yep. That was pretty it wasn't, like, in front of anybody embarrassing, but it was, like, wait a minute, which is improvised explosion device.
Elle:It's like a dirty dirty bomb or like a jerry rigged bomb, basically. And I got that confused with IUD, which is funny. Yeah. Tiny device that's put into your uterus to prevent pregnancy, long term, reversible. This is from Planned Parenthood.
Elle:One of the most effective. Yeah. But it's it lasts for 3 years usually. So it's not like whereas a condom, you have to use every time. Mhmm.
Elle:This is you do it, and you probably don't think about it often until you have to get it replaced. This is for AFAB people. I meant to say I said it goes in the uterus, so I hope that was implied. But, the reason that it is talked about a lot is because depending on where you are and what it's a medical procedure where you go to get it done, it it's very painful. Because this is the case for a lot of medical things that only affect AFAB people, endometriosis science, lots of things like that.
Elle:There's not a whole lot of and it's there are more, I don't mean to discredit individuals who have done incredible work in these fields, but there's not as much information about it as we know about other conditions that everyone. So, like, I don't know if you know this, but do you know what the fastest funded drug in the world was?
Anthony:What was it?
Elle:Viagra.
Anthony:Wow.
Elle:More than cancer research, more than
Anthony:yeah. I didn't expect that.
Elle:Well, it makes sense.
Anthony:What's your source? Or how do you know that?
Elle:I what is my source? That's a good question. In history. Team, I think wait a minute. Was it not?
Elle:Y'all that's gonna be embarrassing. I feel like I definitely heard that though. Hang on. If it's if it wasn't the fastest, which oh my god. Thank you for calling me on my source.
Elle:It's definitely up there.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Here we go. Also, I think Viagra is a brand name. There are other I you don't have to have diagnosable erectile dysfunction to, like, take Viagra. But, like, I wanna say ED medications, but, like, you can also just get those those honey packs, like, from the gas station.
Anthony:Didn't you aren't aren't are you the one who told me that, Band Aid is a brand name?
Elle:No. But is it?
Anthony:I think it is.
Elle:You know you know what they call them in, England? What? Plaster. Oh. No.
Elle:That doesn't make sense to me because I think of well, well, obviously, it doesn't make sense to me. Okay. This is what I meant, team. I I don't fastest funded might have been incorrect. I'm what I meant is that it was one of the fastest approved by the FDA.
Anthony:Okay. Alright.
Elle:There we go. Alright. On March 27, 1988, I'm on the history.com because it does live
Anthony:this day in history.
Elle:A lesson in journalism? Yeah. Oh, okay. Its massive success was practically instantaneous. The 1st year alone, the 8 to $10 pills yield yielded $1,000,000,000 in sales.
Elle:Wow. The impact on the pharmaceutical and medical industries was enormous. So that's what I am trying to say is that it gets a lot of attention. It makes a lot of money. It gets approved fast.
Elle:It gets funded fast. The reason that IUDs get talked a lot about is because depending on where you live, which clinic you go to, stuff like that, you might not get either topic topical or any other form of anesthesia. So it can hurt a lot when you get it put in. Mhmm. Like a like, it's it's it happened to somebody I know.
Elle:I almost said, what? Who has requested that I talk about them on this podcast? And it was incredibly painful, and it was just a really negative experience for for her, and she ended up having it removed. And honestly, I don't even have to say one person, because I know multiple AFAB people that that's happened to.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:So that is that is one of the reasons that, somebody might not might choose not to use an IUD, but it is people might choose it because it is so long term. Mhmm. And it's very, very effective in preventing pregnancy, but it does not yeah. It's 99% effective if placed correctly. But it's a it's an it's is it a it is a medical procedure whereas no.
Elle:You don't need to cut that out. I don't mind. Everybody stutters. Whereas, like, using a condom every time you get them at the gas station, like, it's not the same, obviously. Mhmm.
Elle:The birth control pill and the patch are used on a schedule. The shot is also used on a schedule. The implant, I feel like this is recent. Like, I the first one I heard about the brand was Nexplanon. It it hasn't I don't think it's been around a very long time, but I knew I knew somebody in high school had it.
Elle:It it usually goes in your arm, and there are horror stories about it, like, moving. Like, for those of you who watch Chicago Med, that was a plot line on Chicago Med 2 weeks ago. It moved to her heart.
Anthony:Oh, lord.
Elle:They even said but, like, one, that's television. Me saying I don't wanna spread misinformation and then bringing this up, that's television, and it's because it was placed incorrectly even within the context of the show, and I think, talk to your doctor. Obviously, most of the time, you will be fine. But it's it's low maintenance as well. I I don't know how long it I don't think it lasts as long as an IUD, but The Nexplanon is fairly recent, or the implants that was just the brand that comes to mind.
Elle:There are more and more, fertility treatments coming out. I think especially now with the Dobbs decision that Roe v Wade has been overturned, hopefully, we will see. I mean, it's possible we will see an increase on legislative crackdowns on preventative birth control message, but, methods, hopefully, we see an increase in birth control science as a whole. Yeah. So barriers to I feel like we we've talked about which one the the most common ones, which protect against STDs which are condoms and I think internal condoms do as well.
Elle:Which of them are one time use, and then the general accuracy. And I think when we talk about these things, it's more of a discussion. I know I love to list and research, but I'm not gonna list all of that information to you. Mhmm. I'd rather get your take on it and just talk about it in general.
Elle:But one of the things I wanted to specifically discuss was not only stigma, but also misinformation because birth control has a huge problem with misinformation. But chemicals exist in our body regardless. Medicate taking, a pill or medication always accompanies discussions like that. And it's not to say that that type of hesitance is always bad. Like, oh, you you know what I mean?
Elle:Like, you should be aware of what goes into your body, I think, 100%. But that is a borderline statement. It's something that I think people should talk to their doctor about a lot more. Does that make sense?
Anthony:Yes. It does.
Elle:I have
Anthony:a question for you too. Do you think it's gonna actually or do you think they're actually gonna make a male birth control? Like, do you think it's gonna actually be produced and Yes.
Elle:Mhmm. Yeah. I do. I do. I couldn't tell you the timeline Mhmm.
Elle:But definitely with the overturn of the, of Roe versus Wade. I think, hopefully, we will see it soon. Mhmm. Yeah. Yes.
Elle:I do. What's that? There was there's a quote that's if men if men, and the quote says men, but, I mean, AMAD people, if men could get pregnant, there would be clinics, on every street corner like Starbucks. And that's what I
Anthony:was saying.
Elle:Even though AMAB people can cause more pregnancies over the same period of time, AFAB people, are the ones who who bear the like I said, when I say bear the burden, I don't mean the potential of a child. I mean
Anthony:As we hear our lovely employees and the That's so funny. Coworkers in the,
Elle:What they're doing is yelling for, for the elevator, because we instruct people to go down the stairs, because the door that's right next to the podcast room is so loud. It's the loudest door I've ever heard in my life.
Anthony:Yeah. And
Elle:it It's loud even when somebody isn't recording. You're like, ah.
Anthony:Yeah. It picks up.
Elle:It also beeps when somebody comes in because of the security system. Mhmm. So we encourage people to take the elevator instead when we're recording because so we that noise doesn't get picked up, but people yelling for the elevator just got picked up. That was funny. What are you gonna do?
Elle:I've said and a a lot today. So, yeah, when I say, like, when I say, like, I don't want chemicals in my body, I don't mean that that is a terrible assumption or thought to have. I just think that is a statement that has to be investigated further by the person saying it and their doctor. Like, that as just a reason and then you don't do anything else, I I would I think is unwise because you should be aware of the chemicals that go into your body, and the birth control pill and other birth control methods do have side effects. I'm not trying to say that's not true.
Elle:I saw a recent post. It was 2 women, making their boyfriends read the full list of side effects for birth control, and it's like it looks like an ancient scroll, because there are side effects, and there are important decisions that have to be made by the person taking birth control pill. Just my example here is about the pill, and their health care provider, but there is a lot of misinformation. So I would encourage anybody who wants to be, on the pill or any other form of birth control to speak to their partner. I assume if you're on birth control, you have a partner, but also that's another very common misconception that all birth control is only used for preventing pregnancy or for sexual reasons.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:And that is not true because the birth control pill and other methods, can help regulate, an AFAB person's psych like a menstrual cycle. There there's lots of different reasons that people go on birth control. So when I said I assume you have a partner, that was maybe not my best assumption, but since this is a love and sex podcast, I'm we're talking specifically in terms of birth control as pregnancy prevention and STI prevention.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:But, yeah, that that that comes with the stigma portion because misinformation and stigma usually go hand in hand. The more stigma there is about something, the less people want to ask about it and talk about it and seek expert sources, and, therefore, that, like, that stigma keeps them from getting the truth, which leads to misinformation. So they're linked if you're listening, not watching. I'm doing a linking motion with my hands. But I think stigma comes one one particular form of stigma I've seen is that when somebody wants to, for, again, for example, go on the pill, depending on how old they are, they're seen as, like, fast.
Elle:Mhmm. Or, like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that. Like, a lot of stigma from birth control is literally just the same stigma that accompanies sex.
Anthony:Even though I clearly know what you mean, could you explain to the audience what you meant by fast, the term?
Elle:Fast means, like, promiscuous or slutty. Mhmm. Just lots of slut shaming terms we all hear anyway. Mhmm. Yeah.
Elle:So we talk about sexual tab the whole the entire point of this podcast is to combat the taboos that accompany talking about sex because these are topics we all people should be knowledgeable about, in my opinion, and if not knowledgeable, then be aware of and be willing to talk about. I don't think everyone in the world would be willing to have a podcast about it. I think that's definitely true. I think there are people in your life you might not wanna talk about this this kind of stuff about. Mhmm.
Elle:But I don't think it should be as shameful and as weird to talk about sex in a healthy, safe, environment as it is.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:So the same shame that accompanies birth control, the same stigma, it comes from the shame that we have about sex, particularly, afab people. Have about how it, like, purity culture, which is the idea that having, having sex, whether that's, penetrative sex, oral sex, anal sex, like, obviously, it's sex as an idea means many different things to many people, somehow devalues you and it's particularly targeted towards, AFIB people and and women. Like the idea, no, like, it's so it is literally the the exact definition of objectifying because it often compares women to objects. Like, nobody's gonna want gum that's already been chewed. Did you just compare me to gum?
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Or, like, why would you wanna use car? Again, did you just compare me to a car? That's an I'm I'm I'm a person.
Anthony:Yeah.
Elle:What and and it's targeted more towards women than, men. So what has been your experience? Like, when you say you think birth control, you don't really think of condoms? No. What what, barriers to access?
Elle:Price, level of medical depth, like I said, an IUD, is is more of a procedure and also getting your tubes tied or getting a vasectomy. Those are I don't actually I I I getting an IUD doesn't count as a surgical procedure, but getting your tubes tied and getting a vasectomy both do. Mhmm. So various access price prescription needed slash medical level and stigma. What are your thoughts or experiences with that?
Anthony:In terms of the stigmas that I've heard about birth control?
Elle:Sure. Any any barrier to access. Like, you were talking before about why is plan b so expensive.
Anthony:Mhmm. Yeah. That would be one. And then I've also I I've dated a partner before who was on birth control, and we it was a conversation between us and them and their parents in terms of the effects that that birth control could have, in terms of Yeah. I've heard a lot of times when AFAB people take birth control, it may add on weight.
Elle:Yes. That is one of the side effects. It can be as weight gain.
Anthony:And that has been one of the main concerns in terms of the people I've been in contact with who have decided or not decided to be on birth control in terms of the potential effects on their body.
Elle:Yeah. I was gonna say I don't know if you know this or if you wanna share. Were were they hesitant about gaining weight from a health standpoint or from an a body image standpoint?
Anthony:I if I were to I don't know an answer for sure, but if I were to take a guess, it would be both.
Elle:That's interesting.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:And that's that's not an invalid feeling at all. That's that's incredibly common. Okay.
Anthony:And also, another thing that, the reason why I mentioned, or it was in intriguing when you mentioned the fast aspect is because that's also another thing I've heard, and I'll be, less frank and say closer circles in my life in terms of, like, why would I why would the young lady be on birth control if they're not have if they're having sex? Or if they're not having sex, why should they be on birth control?
Elle:And there are a lot there there are many, many reasons. It's it regulates your cycle. It hit, like I'm, again, not a doctor, but there are so many reasons to be on birth control. And unless you are someone's medical provider, you have no business asking them that.
Anthony:Yeah.
Elle:So birth control and sex education, if we are probably gonna wrap this up soon. Mhmm. But to a bit of a personal story are interesting topics for me because I think I've talked about this before on the podcast, but when I was growing up, I was never given the sex talk, like, by anyone in my life. That is an expectation that falls primarily people with heterosexual parents on the mother for, daughters Or I assume does it fall on the father for sons?
Anthony:It's a good question. It varies because I relate in terms I didn't get the sex talk until I was, like, in college. So
Elle:I I I took health, I took health in high school. That's where I learned most of this, if not just on my own. But the only sex talk I was ever given, I had periods explained to me, but I don't think that's the sex talk. Sorry. Was one talk in 8th grade, and I went to a Catholic school, so it was abstinence based, and my mother telling me don't get pregnant.
Elle:That was it. And I have talked I I I don't think my mom listens. No hate to her, but I can understand why she wouldn't want to. I've talked with her a lot about this. I don't wanna say, like, no parent is perfect.
Elle:So it's not like, how could you do this? You know what I mean? But it would be a lie to say that that hasn't affected my understanding of my own sexuality and also just my health. Because I think I've mentioned a few times before being in pelvic floor therapy, when you when people don't know what's going on with their bodies, they don't know when something is air quotes wrong or abnormal or, like, this is something I would have the the reason that I probably will talk about a little later on this podcast, that I'm in pelvic floor therapy. I didn't even know that there was something, quote, unquote, wrong.
Elle:I had no idea. And if I had had these discussions and had had had had I don't love saying that. If I'd been exposed to this kind of stuff and it were a more open discussion in my household, then I could have sought treatment for this sooner, and it would have affected my life and my relationships less than it has now.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:So my my personal feelings about birth control, it it doesn't benefit anyone to not talk about it. It benefits the people who don't wanna talk about it, how comfortable they are. And one person's comfort should never come before someone else's health
Anthony:Mhmm. Ever. I agree.
Elle:The consequences can be so severe and so difficult. If if you for example, if somebody were to not talk to talk about birth control or give the sex talk at all to their child who let's say the child is AFAB, that child gets pregnant when they're 14, 15, somewhat considered, like, taboo ages. I'm a big fan of this, the phrase. I don't can I don't support teen motherhood, but I support teen moms because the idea, obviously, the idea is historically, sociologically not one that benefits many people, but those people need support? So talking down on them doesn't really help.
Elle:But the consequences in that situation could be that you are then raising your grandchild
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Or your your if the AFAB person is cisgender, your daughter has to deal with that, and you don't know how involved the father of that child is going to be. Mhmm. You don't know if that child was conceived, consensually.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:The effect that's gonna have on that, young woman's life, her career prospects, her finances. That's what's at stake when we don't talk about birth control. And like I said, that is just one example. There are medical there are so many. That's the one I think that is most common.
Elle:That's what's at stake, and you're you're going to weigh that worst case scenario, let's say, against the fact that you don't wanna have an uncomfortable conversation. Really? I I I fail to see how that would ever take precedence. So that's my that's why I was excited to talk about birth control today is because it's not something I am used to talking about.
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:But it's as with this podcast and Anthony and I, it's we enjoy talking about these topics.
Anthony:Mhmm. And especially as someone who, wants a daughter in the future, it's important or I feel it's important for me to have these and listen to these type of conversations to be as knowledgeable as I can.
Elle:Yeah. Because I think heterosexual couples, heterosexual parents, some fathers, not all fathers, I have been very fortunate. I think I've told somebody this before and they were like, what? I would I would feel more comfortable talking about birth control with my dad than I would my mom. Like, my dad even said, like, if you don't feel comfortable talking to mom about this, you know you can always talk to me about it.
Elle:Like, that is a that is kind of a rarity in for, people with heterosexual parents. Usually, it's the parent who is the same gender or sex that they feel more comfortable talking about
Anthony:Mhmm.
Elle:Talking to. But there are, I know, a lot of fathers who don't think it's their responsibility. They're, like, that's that's the mother's job, and that's up for those parents to decide together, but I am not a big fan of that because it's your child, And just because you might not have the same anatomy that they do and just because it's a bit of an uncomfortable subject, doesn't mean that they shouldn't feel safe telling you things.
Anthony:Mhmm. I agree.
Elle:I'm cooking today.
Anthony:On fire, man. Listen.
Elle:So, yeah, if you want more information about birth control, you can head over to plannedparenthood.org or talk to your health care providers. I'm sure there's lots of other website. I feel like planned parenthood is just one that people know. Yeah. Stay informed.
Elle:Why am I turning into, like this is just advice now. Yeah. But stay informed. I think it's if this is something that you want to know more about, then you should get into it, research it. It's a fascinating fascinating topic.
Elle:Like, we we've been recording for, oh my gosh, like, 45 minutes. We gotta get home.
Anthony:Right. And
Elle:I have Easter to celebrate.
Anthony:Same. And quietly, shout out my dad. He called during his podcast, and I definitely had to hit decline and text him. My bad. Because that's and I don't know if it could vary in all communities, but especially in the black community, not answering the phone or send them straight to voice mail.
Anthony:That's almost a distance. So with that being said, we go get out of here right after the disclaimer again repeated. A, we're not medical officials ourselves, and b, the opinions that we may share on this podcast are of ours, not of the state news.
Elle:Correct.
Anthony:And with that being said, you got one more thing to say?
Elle:Yes. I was gonna say I declined to call for my dad. He called me exact I am not kidding, exactly at 3 PM on Good Friday. And then he texted me, and then I responded, and I was a little rude, and then I felt bad. But, yeah, that's our wrap up today.
Elle:If you have any questions about birth control, comment them. Let us know. If you as always, let us know what you wanna see talked about in the future and
Anthony:Hit that subscribe button too.
Elle:Oh my god. So true.
Anthony:And with that being said, we're always gonna take a deep dive, but sometimes it's good to come up for air.
Elle:This has been the Going Deeper podcast.