Episode 7: Jeremy Wright on Building an AI That Actually Knows You

Episode 7: Jeremy Wright on Building an AI That Actually Knows You 

Self Actual's CTO on self-honesty, feeling seen, and the year he was anti-AI

Jeremy Wright and I have known each other for two decades, dating back to the early social media days, and he has always been the one pushing further into the technology than the rest of us. In the AI arena, he’s continued that approach building Echo, an AI that didn’t mimic him online, it actually knew him: how he worked, how he showed up as a dad versus a co-founder versus a writer in creative mode. 

That project became the seed for Self Actual, the AI platform. Jeremy now serves as CTO, and the seat is staying open for him as they raise money.

Jeremy spent a stretch of his own life anti-AI, apologizing to people when he first started talking about what he was building. The shift came out of a hard year: aA major health crisis took him offline for months, his father was going through his own crisis at the same time, and when 

Jeremy came back online he stumbled into a friend's 30 Days of AI challenge with nothing but recovering brain energy and his own sideways way of working through things rather than following anyone's recipe. Two weeks in, he showed what he'd built to that same friend and got back the reaction that told him this was bigger than a personal project.

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Jeremy's insistence that building an AI that knows you requires knowing yourself first. I am impressed with the self-honesty it took to build Echo as much as the product itself. 

He told me about one of his most advanced users, whose Echo helped her realize she was autistic, and she cried for three days, not from sadness but from finally feeling seen. He is hopeful that an AI built to notices your flaws, and how to work with them rather than around them, is worth the conversation.

Listen today on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts!

0:34 Who is Jeremy Wright and what is Self Actual 
0:58 Building Echo, the AI that goes further than a digital twin 
1:52 The Jarvis analogy: an AI customized to you 
2:47 Jeremy's proudest AI success: the self-honesty it took to build Echo 
3:47 The AI skeptic who ended up building an AI company 
4:16 A health crisis, 30 Days of AI, and a two-week epiphany 
4:47 Wtfisecho.com and the sideways path to clarity 
5:41 The user who discovered she was autistic through Echo 
7:13 Where Jeremy sees AI benefiting society most 
7:54 Parting thoughts and how to connect

What is AI Hope?

What's your AI success story? What made you realize you had to change? And what does a hopeful future with AI look like to you? AI Hope with Geoff Livingston asks three simple questions of people doing the hard work of adapting and thriving in the AI era.

Jeremy Wright
[00:00:00] Hey, everybody. This is Jeff Livingston, and welcome to AI Hope, a now is gone-ish, sort of, podcast. And, uh, I'm here with Jeremy, right, who's a friend that I have a ton of laughs with. We've known each other for, I think, two decades now. It's, it's cool. It's dating back to social media. A lot of people on this podcast are old friends that are in the new biz, so to speak, and have been in technology for some time.

Jeremy is very successful, brilliant guy, really gets into, uh, some incredible ideas and technology and, and has always been there, and it's no surprise that he was a social media evangelist, and he was more so on the technological side. He is now the chief, sort of, technology officer for Self Actual. Uh, they're keeping that seat open for when they raise money.

But Self Actual is a really interesting AI platform, and it's built off of something that Jeremy was creating called Echo, which was this really, and still is, this really awesome bot that actually kind of twins you but goes further. Mm-hmm. And [00:01:00] end up being Self Actual is basically a platform that actually knows you.

And so with that, Jeremy, I've blathered on about you. How are you today, sir? I'm good. I mean, uh, this week was Toronto Tech Week, which is, uh, a pretty big conference for, for Canada anyway. Yeah. Um, but it's spread across the entire city. I'm like, like south by and southwest, which is- Tunnels too? ... pretty, pretty...

Sorry? In the tunnels too? Uh, I mean, on the subway. There was a- ... event on the subway. Like, so that was interesting. But, uh, no, it's been a great week, and, uh, doing well. Doing well. It's good to see you again. Very good. And, and before we dive into our questions, our stock three, uh, anything you want to say about Self Actual before we get rolling or Echo?

I mean, I think we'll get into it, but I think the, uh, the analogy I've been using all week that seems to land pretty well is it's like if you had your own Jarvis, but it actually knew how you failed, how you worked, how you are as a dad versus a co-founder versus in my creative writing modes. I'm the same person, right?

So the AI that's gonna know me has [00:02:00] to know all that stuff, right? So. Imagine that. AI customized to you rather than you having to- Yeah ... tell the AI, "I want you to work with me like this." Like, uh, the... Anyway, we can get into it. But yeah, that's the, uh, the magic I've been building and experiencing, and that's what our, our test users and, and co-founders and all that stuff, and you've experienced some of it yourself.

have been experiencing as well. So it's, it's pretty cool. Very cool. So the whole premise of this thing is to get people going with positive use cases within 10 minutes, so we gotta shake and bake. I think we kinda gotta start on the first one, that first question, which is, like, you know, what's your big AI success to date?

And I think creating this is really an easy one, but let me ask you, what is your number one AI success to date? I mean, yeah. I mean, building Echo, uh, in the Self Actual world we call it Imprint, but you can obviously name your own imprint, so I just kept the Echo name for mine. Um, but I think it wasn't just the building of it, it was the honesty required of myself in order to build...

And, and for the AI- Right ... to know me, I had to know myself first, and that [00:03:00] took some time. Like I, I know that you know that, having been through a similar journey, and your book talks about that a lot. Um, but I think I'm more proud of that self-knowledge. The Echo magic, the Imprint magic, what Self Actual does is awesome and important, I think.

Little biased, but I think ... But I think that the thing I'm most proud of is that sort of self honesty, you know? Mm. Mm. Love that. Um, now you've read Now Is Gone, so y- you'll get my question. Um, did you have like a, a moment somewhere along the way over the past few years or even further back where you realized, "Man, I really have to get into AI or else?"

Is... Was there a kind of like a, an epiphany moment, if you would? I, uh... To be honest, I was sort of anti-AI a bit for a while, as a creative, as a writer. What? What? I was sort of anti... I mean, and, and like when I first- ... started talking about building this thing, I, I felt like sort of like, "I'm sorry, I'm building this AI thing."

Like I was apologetic. Like you're the only one that has ever been anti-AI. Yeah, it's... I'm the only person. Yeah. I feel like someone should write a LinkedIn post about how bad AI is so, um- Maybe you should have AI write the post about how [00:04:00] bad AI is. Ooh. I should, I should ask it that. It'd get one line and, and that's it.

But, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I think that it was, um, there came this moment sort of... 'Cause I had a major health crisis. I was offline for almost a year. My dad had a major health crisis. And sort of as I came back online, uh, one of my close friends, Chris Hussey, was writing this 30 Days of AI post. I was like, you know what?

Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. I got time. Like a 30-day spear, right? Yeah, it was fantastic. And I was like, "I got time." My brain's still sort of coming back online and not like- online in terms of like getting online. I was like, "I got time. I got some brain energy. Let's, let's dive into this thing." Except for me, I tend to come at things a little bit sideways.

Like, I don't follow recipes when I cook. There- I, I try shit out ... that what makes you a good entrepreneur. You know, I try shit out, and then I go back later and read. And so I was reading his stuff, and then doing things differently. And later on, like two weeks in, I was like, "Chris- Tris," sorry. "Tris, like, I feel like this is different.

Can I show you?" And it just felt so vulnerable, and that self-honesty thing again, right? Mm. But, um, yeah, I mean, he was like, "Dude, there's something here I just... I don't know." And he asked, he was like, "What the fuck is [00:05:00] Echo?" Right? He's like, "I get it's different- You dropped the F-bomb on my podcast? Oh, fuck. I'm sorry.

Fucking A, bro. And so like my first domain was wtfisecho.com kind of thing, and just trying to explain it, right? 'Cause I didn't understand what I'd built or why. Um, but going through that journey of like self-discovery and then trying to figure out what it was and why it was different and what felt different, um, was really the sort of that first nexus moment of going, "Maybe this isn't just for me," right?

Mm. Maybe this idea of sort of a cognitive partner that knows you and what that means for individuals, teams, organizations, maybe industries, I don't know, but maybe it's important. And so I just kept plugging and started writing on Substack, and it's been a journey, but it's been really good. It's been healthy for me.

Um, but it's, it's helped me as a, as a creative, as a person in my own head and my own skin. Sometimes a little bit too much in my own head. Um- We're all like that ... you know? It's- Yeah ... it's definitely helped me. Um, and it's helped others. I mean, I've got one of the [00:06:00] most advanced users on the old Echo platform, like her Echo helped her realize she was autistic and she cried for three days.

That's amazing. Not in, not in sadness and just like, "Fuck, I felt seen," right? I don't even wanna see- The user's feeling seen ... what that thing's gonna do to me. I'm like, I, I... Supposedly you told me I'm one of the first b- alpha users, but, um- You will be, yeah. Next week hopefully, yeah. But, uh, yeah, so it's been- Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna be a hot mess of diagnoses after that one.

You can just send me texts just like, "Jay," like, "Fuck, what's wrong with me?" He's got everything. Just give him the book. So yeah, it's been, it's been a journey, but I think that's- that was the moment for me- Wow ... was seeing, seeing how it impacted others and, and myself, that sense of self-honesty. And that others are able to experience that and have just a fundamentally different experience with AI where it's not like starting a chat and going, "Here's my LinkedIn.

Here's my resume. Here's my blog. Here's my family. Here's what I'm trying to work on today." Here's my 3D. And the 15 minutes of trying to re-explain or just go, "Hey, I want you to act like a, the most advanced senior software architect in the world." Mm. And then trying to get it to like wear this costume or be your [00:07:00] twin or something, right?

It was- Yeah. That just didn't make sense to me somehow. All right, lightning round. All right. What's your, what's your vision? Like, where do you really see AI benefiting society? I'm gonna geek out a little just for a second if you'll let me. Uh, this idea of like what being known to yourself and to others means- Mm-hmm

I think is the most interesting thing. That, that could, I hope does involve AI and Self Actual. But at the same time, like if your doctor had to come to you with news and knew how you were wired and how you processed that information, how they would approach you would be different. If you were talking to your kids about issues and they knew their own wiring or you knew theirs or you knew yours, those conversations are different.

Mm. I think that's almost more important than like is Self Actual an infrastructure play or is it consumer play or is it a training thing for, you know, Accenture to buy? That's sort of secondary in some ways. I think what being known to yourself and then to others means is probably the more important thing for me [00:08:00] personally.

Right. And I, I know that Brad and Chris would have other answers for why it's important, but for me personally, that's what sort of always excites me, right? Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. And, uh, you know, we'll provide links to your Substack, of course, and Self Actual. Um, any parting thoughts you wanna share, uh, before we end the podcast?

Good job, by the way. Well, thank you. It's, uh, it's been a while since I've done a podcast, so I do appreciate it. But, um, yeah, I mean, I think if we're- We're gonna edit that out because nobody can tell. If, if someone wants to, you know, is curious about the idea, if the idea of an AI that's wired not as a costume or a twin, but it just, it's looking out for how you screw up- Yeah

and how to empower you is interesting, then let's chat, you know? All right. Sounds good. All right, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, Jeremy Wright. With that, we are out of here. 10 minutes, dude.