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Curated content, insights and opportunities to accelerate your career in Architecture, Design, Development and Real Estate to the next level.
Switching Careers from Architecture to Real Estate: Ft. Aqeel Sourjah at Quadrant Estates
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[00:00:00]
Stephen Drew: That's right. Are you an architect? Are you in development? Maybe this episode's for you. Maybe you've been knocking around town in the past. We're going to go to the Quadrant for you, what you hear your friends saying, spend a bit of money. Now, let's see what they're up to. Hello everyone and welcome to this non livestream livestream special. That's right. When my technical problems are [00:01:00] sorted, we will be back properly live. But this episode was too important to wait. We had to get it down because I I frequently get asked by architectural professionals, part ones and part twos, who think, Oh, I quite like the world of real estate.
That's where I want to be. How do I get there? And the answer, it isn't straightforward. It's very different for everyone. And that is why it is always good to ask those who have done that journey. How the heck to get there? And on that note, I have someone with me who's done this journey, the fantastic Akhil Sourjha from Quadrant.
Akhil, how are you today? Are you okay?
Aqeel Sourjah: Hi Stephen, yeah. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me on the show.
Stephen Drew: Thank you for being here. Now, before we begin, because me and you, we've had one or two chats before. We're still learning more about each other, but we've had a few chats. However, the audience might not have met you and might not encountered you online on [00:02:00] LinkedIn or whatever. So first of all, maybe tell us a little bit about yourself.
Can you give us a quick overview of who you are?
Aqeel Sourjah: Yep, fair enough. Uh, yeah, like Stephen just alluded to, started off, so yeah, started off my I started my career at working as an architect, uh, qualified as RIBA part one, and then decided that I wanted to be a bit more, a bit of a control freak myself. So, uh, thought I'd be on the other side where I have, uh, an um, Exposed to all aspects of a building.
Um, basically, yeah, Mo uh, did a master's in real estate a couple years ago at Westminster, and then they then started working for Quadrant, and now here I am. Um, I get, I work as a development manager for Quadrant and helping them basically. Deliver, Stabilize, Asset Manage, there are, um, [00:03:00] currently 600, over 600K over the Central London office space and hopefully more in the future.
Stephen Drew: Well, well, we're going to get all to that. It sounds really exciting, but let's wind the clock back. Because you mentioned University of Westminster, you were doing that course. So what was the case for you? Were you working in architectural practice for a little while, learning, and then you thought, oh, maybe I'll look into real estate, or was it always the case that you thought, you know what, that's where I want to be?
Yeah,
Aqeel Sourjah: yeah, when I first finished A Levels High School, uh, my parents asked me, what do you want to do with your life? And I was like, hmm, I actually don't know, I'm not too sure. I've always had, uh, interest of buildings, nice spaces, buildings. Etc. Uh, but I was, and just to give some background, my parents were also from a very finance background as well.
They were bankers. So they were sort of trying to get me into that. And [00:04:00] I was sort of the dark horse, I guess, or like outlier. And I decided to get into architecture because I liked it. Uh, studied there, studied in Sri Lanka for like three years, worked in Sri Lanka for two, two afterwards. And then, um, Yeah, after that bit of work, I was like, yeah, no, I think I need something in between, something a bit more client side, more Uh, something that I have a bit more, yeah, bit, bit, bit more, uh, I wouldn't say control, but, uh, bit more overview, it's like doing a lot of things, uh, and getting a project through from the initial appraisal to the final sale, so through the entire lifecycle of a different project.
So I wanted to be in that sort of position, so hence why it was like, and I've been quite Yeah, being in a [00:05:00] family full of bankers, the dinner table is always about economics, how the market's moving, etc. And no one was really talking about design. So we ended up, yeah, so this was sort of like a good in between space for me where I still had my design, where I could input a bit of design.
Not as much as an architect, who I, yeah, I tell all my architecture friends, I commend them for doing the entire journey, but yeah, it wasn't really for me. So I ended up moving into the whole real estate spectrum, which I think is quite interesting and I've really enjoyed it thus far.
Stephen Drew: fair enough and we're going to get on to what you enjoy in a second, but just what I'd love to know now. So you kind of decided, right, that's where I want to go. That's what I'm looking for. How did you get there? What was the process like for you? Okay. Was it a case of applying, not [00:06:00] hearing back? Was it a case that you would message people?
How did you end up working at Quadrant in essence? Yeah. Yeah.
Aqeel Sourjah: So I did, I ended up, because, because I wanted to see what this whole industry was, because Uh, about and because like I said, I had this idea of getting into the client side and understanding it being part of that entire process, but I didn't know what it entailed. So I thought the first thing would be to do is get some ideas.
So I sort of did, uh, enrolled to a master in real estate at the University of Westminster, um, beginning of 2022. Uh, and then basically, um, yeah, uh, went through it, started loving it. And lucky for me, I had a really good tutor called Johan C. Harper, who was a partner in Quadrant. So he used to teach us property finance and property development, which were my two favorite courses.[00:07:00]
Uh, and he, yeah, midway through the second semester, he picked, he called me and he was like, Yo, there's an, uh There's a potential, uh, gap that you could maybe slot into maybe a couple of week internship to start with to see how it goes. Are you interested? And I, and I was basically in my third semester trying to write my dissertation and I was like, yeah, why not?
Ended up, uh, getting into quadrant, uh, two weeks in turn, two weeks turn to summer by five weeks in, uh, the fall. Managing team of Quadrant were like, yeah, if you like to stay, you can have the job. So, uh, ended up from basically from the bottom, but now been progressing ever since. And now I've been in Quadrant for about a year and a bit now, and I've not had any complaints so far.
Stephen Drew: Still
Aqeel Sourjah: I don't think so. It's a lovely team here, so I don't think I'll have it in the future as well.
Stephen Drew: Excellent. That's [00:08:00] interesting. So, one of the things I gained from that is, so, you took it upon yourself, so you did the architecture part and you went, you know what, I'm thinking of going towards real estate. And so, actually, that degree, that master's, the degree that you did at Westminster, by you doing that, It kind of introduced you for your tutor, who mentioned about the other things, so it was like that chain of effects, really.
Um, so, do you think then that, would you recommend, first of all, people who are interested in going in this direction, do you think that the course, the Masters of Real Estate Development, was something that was really useful?
Aqeel Sourjah: I believe so. It's sort of both because coming from a background in architecture, the first thing I told my parents, the The first day I was at uni, I was like, yeah, this is not anything I've done before because it's more, more of the other subjects that you don't usually do as an architect, which is, I think it's like as [00:09:00] being a bit studied, having studied for a bit as an architect, I believe is quite important as well, but that's keep putting that aside.
Yeah, it was a completely, so I would suggest yes. Because it gives you a good breakdown, especially moving in from architecture, like things like even things as simple as it's just accountancy, I think principles, the laws behind it. You know it, but it's quite helpful. So that was a really good point. And also I think it helped me sort of create different connections within the industry as well, because you're in career fairs, you're meeting different people coming in to give you different lectures, who are like, like Johan said, who's, uh, who's part, who's part of the industry being, they're doing it every day.
Uh, and you actually see what they're doing and you understand that you actually like it because. And you, you don't, you know, know what you like until you actually get [00:10:00] there and do it for a few years. So that was a good sort of dip my toes in. I still have my architecture thing if I need to, but this was sort of like a good beginning.
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Aqeel Sourjah: to understand what the career would be and how it looked like.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, no, it makes, makes complete sense. I've often found that some people, right, when they fancy, maybe they've had a bad day in the office and they go, screw this, I want to work for the developer, but as you know, it's not suited for everyone, right? It's like the best job for people that want to do certain responsibilities.
As you mentioned, I think you touched upon earlier, overview, but it's very different than the traditional role of an architect. You're still in. InDesign, but it's very different. Um, maybe what would be really cool for the, for the listener is if you could kind of paint the picture of what your role at Quadrant is like and then they to start to get a feel for it.
Do you think you can give me like a bit of an [00:11:00] overview of what the day to day is like? What's your involvement in projects and that kind of stuff?
Aqeel Sourjah: Yeah, no, I, I just, yeah, just to pick up on one of your points you made earlier as, yeah, my job doesn't involve a lot of design. So if you are, if you are, I guess, an architect, or if you're a designer who really loves that designing part, I did as well, but it's not, it doesn't go into the, we look at a project and we say, okay, you could potentially do these, these, the, but we don't go.
into the detail of it. So if you are some, I guess if you are something like someone who really likes design and space, it's not what you would expect. I, I like numbers and design, so it sort of works for me. But, um, yeah, going back to your question, um, I guess my day to day job would be, I'm sort of like a jack of all trades, I would say.
I wouldn't know the answer [00:12:00] for everything. And to be honest, even I'm not a jack of all trades. Yeah. Um, yet I'm still learning, uh, through the
Stephen Drew: yeah, yeah, yeah,
Aqeel Sourjah: Uh, but I, I, I guess we For example, my day could be where I'm at a site going through with the architects, contractors, what we're doing for a finish of a wall or just going through the specs of a design.
through the whole development process to going into, I don't know, a leasing meeting with the agents, figuring out who the client, who are potential, uh, tenants are going to be, what they want, etc. Then, I don't know, going, speaking to, uh, our funders, uh, who have questions about what the money, uh, how the money is being spent.
So, it, it varies. So, like, one of our partners who uses, uh, a quadrant would say, you're, you're sort of the CEO of the project. So you, you get, you got this army of really [00:13:00] experienced, really well, uh, yeah, really smart people telling you what's happening and your sort of job is to like manage them, make sure, uh, everything's understood, make sure everything's happening properly, make sure your funders are happy, make sure the contractors are on site doing what's supposed to be done, uh, making sure the project management team's sorting that up, like managing all of that.
So it's just. Relying on a lot of good people to basically do your job and making sure like you push everyone's boundaries by asking questions, uh, just Yeah, it's sort of like trying to get the best out of everyone and best out of every scenario and a lot of problem solving. So yeah, so again, to add to that bit, some of my colleagues I work with on the development team, we always joke about how we are going from one fire to another, basically firefighting.
So if you like that, if you like solving a [00:14:00] problem, seeing what the we are figuring out a way through some Some really complicated scenarios, yet this is definitely something you'd like. Again, and I add to it, Architecture School basically gave you that basic learning as well through like critical thinking and things like that.
That helps that you could take that through to a job like this, so, yeah.
Stephen Drew: very cool. It's quite dynamic, isn't it? And, um, while you were talking, I had a little bit of eye candy in the background of some of the projects. Now, maybe you could, because when I was in, I grew up in Wales, right? And there was a big shopping center called the Quadrant, and everyone used to go out to it.
So, you know, That might be connected, that might not be, but I thought initially a lot of the work that the Quadrant does is retail, but I can see from here you do loads of different stuff, right? So are you involved in [00:15:00] different sectors, different projects of work at the moment? Listen, you don't have to break any NDAs, I don't want you to get any trouble here, but is it a case that you get to see a lot of different projects than at Quadrant at the moment?
Aqeel Sourjah: Um, I primarily work with the Central Learning Office team, so we've got a team that does, so we are, I would sort of describe Kotlin as an opportunity led developer. So we look for opportunities around London, around UK, and then pitch it to different investors and try and, yeah, develop different asset classes.
So I, I don't, yeah, to be honest, I do not deal with the retail part side of the business, but my focus is basically central London. So it could be getting a thing like YY, which you can see in the image right now, but Uh, developed or basically looking at potential opportunities to convert of old, uh, [00:16:00] officers into other users and things like that.
So I, I, yeah, basically focus mostly, most of my time on option opportunities like that.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. Very, very cool. I mean, they look very, very interesting. And so I think you've painted a good picture on it. So especially when you're entering the, you know, the profession, you've got a year under your belt now as well. It's very dynamic. You're learning a lot as well. One of the things that, um, I've heard some people get thrown off by is the, the job titles per se.
People go, Oh, what's this? What's that? Now, my understanding, like it's very different. The job titles in, in, uh. Basically real estate, depending on the company. I mean, is that what you found as well? Is it, is there, is, is there such a thing as a technical manager, development manager, project manager, um, you know, procurement manager, all this stuff, like what's your opinions on that?
Cause I see some people go, Oh, I can't apply for that [00:17:00] because I'm not a technical delivery manager.
Aqeel Sourjah: Uh, yeah, I agree that there are some, uh, nuances for these different job roles. So for example, as development manager, we sit on the client side. Acting on behalf of a client or an investor managing everyone else. Uh, so, and then if you, if you take someone like someone like a project manager, they handle most of the, they, they, they sort of represent us, the client on the contractor construction element of it.
Uh, and so it, it depends on what sort of, What your interests are at the end of the day. Uh,
Stephen Drew: yeah,
Aqeel Sourjah: design managers, again, a different role. They would be ID on, uh, the client side or the, uh, or, or the contractor side or, uh, just managing the [00:18:00] design. So like, like, it, it, there, there is it, I guess it's, it's what, what, uh, coming in from architecture.
It's what you like about this. So, I'm going to talk to you about architecture and what you picked up and then translating it into a role, to one of these roles, basically. So like I said, I like numbers and design, so, and being quite a control freak, so, uh, hence why I chose architecture. I guess development management works for me, but yeah, you might have someone who, who likes the detail of things or the intricacies of things that could potentially go into a different thing.
So it's about, I guess, finding what you like, because you, at the end of the day, if you're thinking of coming out of architecture, you're looking at, You, you, you probably like something. You, you, yeah. You did architecture for a reason, so you probably like an element of it. It's about translating that because I didn't actually realize how much, uh, [00:19:00] different nuance, what the different nuances between the roles were until I actually got into the job when I was like, oh, this is what you do.
And which is cool, like I would not be able to do that job because it's not not my expertise, but different people have their different sort of expertise, I would say,
Stephen Drew: yeah,
Aqeel Sourjah: which is something you need to figure out while either while doing the job or figuring out what you actually like.
Stephen Drew: yeah, I think that's really comprehensive and really useful. So it's kind of researching the roles, seeing what might lean to your strengths and going for it. And the last question I was going to ask on the subject is, so, okay, you went to that course, worked hard, you met your tutor, your tutor was like, it might be a job here, you had to interview it, you had to impress them, it's been hard work, all that stuff, but let's pretend.
You didn't have that opportunity and you didn't catch it. You didn't seize it. Okay. But now you've kind of learned a bit in [00:20:00] the industry because you are in the industry, right? So what advice do you give someone? Um, is there any tips that you think that people make all the time trying to get in the industry that you can share?
With that, with anyone to save them time.
Aqeel Sourjah: I think one of, something I find very interesting is the connections you make, it's the genuine connections, not, not the usual networking that you see where you go from one thing to another, it's the genuine connections you make within the industry would come along with, because at the end of the day, we are a Industry full of different people.
It's a relationship based one. So, I think that's something that as a student, I encourage, like, coming in. Like, sorry, like being here in the industry, if I'm looking back, I'm glad that I did it [00:21:00] and I'm, I would, I, every time I speak to someone who's looking into the industry, I would say make those connections, speak to different people, see how they, because everyone had, have their own perspective.
They are getting to different places, have their own, like, way of, like, I have, I have, yeah, I have development managers who've been architects. I have, I know development managers who just, uh, who, who've been coming through a completely different path. So, it's, it's, it's, there's no one sort of formula. It's just, just getting to know people and speaking, like, you, you let, you never know who would be interested in giving you an opportunity and, Moving, like, getting you through that first hurdle of getting through the door, which I believe is the hardest point.
Because as long as you're getting through the door, you work hard, you prove your worth. People are going to reward that, which is what I found. So, uh, it's just getting through that door is the biggest hurdle. So you just have to [00:22:00] keep meeting people, speaking to people, getting that, that, that's, it's not the most, uh, easiest thing to do for a lot of people, even me.
Uh, but it is something that's quite important in getting any job, I would say, not, not just in real estate, but because when you have people in your corner, it's much. It opens up a lot more doors.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. No, that, I think that makes a lot of sense and it, that leads me on perfectly. Cause what I was going to ask the next question is. So the jump from architecture. To development is quite an arduous one and difficult for many, um, and I lately have been speaking to people. I say it's maybe a bit easier to do it earlier in your career than later, right?
So that's great there. But you also did a never. Very, very difficult thing because you're an international student, right? And the other problem that I [00:23:00] encounter a lot is the catch 22 chicken and egg thing of getting your first job in the UK because you don't have UK experience. And I think a lot of people, very, very, very, So you've got all that experience, but then you come to the UK and there's that, like, resistance is hard.
There's the barrier to get in there as well. Do you have any, like, thoughts or advice around that subject as well? Being an international student or an international professional trying to get work in the UK. Yeah.
Aqeel Sourjah: I think it's sort of repeating myself earlier. It's just basically trying to get in through that door because the standards of your different countries are, can be similar or different to the UK. And like you said, getting that initial experience when you, even if I have worked a few years, but even when I went into a few, a few architecture related [00:24:00] interviews, there were questions that I could not answer because it was not the usual standard of things that you have in the UK.
It is a bit of a chicken and egg, I would say, uh, but like, hence why sometimes just, I think it's important to grab any opportunity you get, because sometimes I've spoken to different people who, uh, who work for a while and they don't want to go down slightly just to come back. Back up, downslide in terms of job titles or work because they've already had the experience.
But I think it is quite important what I tell them and what I believe is it's quite important to, even if it's like a little bit of a setback. You're in a new environment, new country, new way of doing things. Even if it's a little bit of a setback, you could basically. Um, not non setback, I would say, that's the wrong way of describing it, but a little bit of a downgrade.[00:25:00]
Uh, it would, uh, I guess, it's, it helps, yeah, doing that and then working your way as much. It's, it comes quickly because once you, once you're in and if you, if you pick up things quite quickly, people will recognize you and obviously give you the relevant responsibility and then you, it can help you progress.
So it's just, it's just getting that foot in the door, speaking to people, understanding how they've got their, there are so many people who've done it and it is not, it's not, it is. Not easy, uh, but it's getting that foot in the door is the most, I think, important part of, as an international student, because I've got to go.
I've heard stories where if you're an international student, you basically are in a second pile. Your CV doesn't get even looked at until [00:26:00] an employee can't find what they're looking for in the, sort of, from anyone from the UK. So, I understand, even from an employer's point of view. Because Why would you spend and put more effort into sorting out visas, et cetera, if you could just get someone who does the job here?
And especially if you don't know someone. So, hence why relationships, getting it there. So you have that extra bit of push, uh, coming through different, uh, yeah, is quite, is extremely important.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. No, it makes sense. Yeah. I mean, that's really useful. I think it's about being honest about these conversations as well and sometimes acknowledging that it is just difficult, but you can power through. It's not going to be easy. Just have to keep going here. But it's good to talk about it rather than, I think some people like to Sweep it under the brush, like it doesn't happen, but it is, it is an uphill battle from the start.
What I was going to ask you now, [00:27:00] a bit different, right? Because you mentioned earlier, you have all these conversations at the dinner table, your parents, it's quite an exciting time at the moment in the world, right? Um, what I was going to ask is, AI. Okay, now, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because you've seen, before you were in the architectural world, now you're in real estate and stuff.
Do you think that all the progress that we're making in the world is going to advance prop tech, AI? Is it starting to have an influence already, Akhil, or is it, or do you think it's, it will come in the future? Hmm.
Aqeel Sourjah: I am an advocate of getting technology in as soon as possible, uh, because it makes life easier, makes things faster. There is no something that I would take to do a couple of hours to do. I could get it done in a few minutes if I had the relevant tools. So I, uh, I believe It's already part of us, it's part of the [00:28:00] technology, uh, it's, it's still in its infancy, but there's a lot of potential for it to really blow up and really make a difference in how we work, how we, uh, how things are done, how efficient we are, etc.
And I think the, lots of people, I guess, might, uh, yeah, lots of people are worried that, okay, AI is going to come and steal their job, etc. But, I think what's important is staying creative, because the guy, people who would survive this AI boom is people who could think creatively. differently adapt to different scenarios.
I'm not saying I'm like that. I might not be, I guess I'll let my colleagues decide, but I'm saying something important to keep in mind. What I keep in mind is you need to be creative. You need to have that extra thing that AI might not be able to give, give out that [00:29:00] human sort of touch that sometimes you think, so it is quite important just to stay in front of this, not reject technology because that's a losing battle.
You've seen. A lot of companies have lost that battle in the last few years, so not to reject, um, technology, just embrace it, see how it can make your workflow better, and just crack on and stay ahead, basically.
Stephen Drew: It's very interesting, starting to use it already. I use it a lot in my business, um, initially for the back of house stuff, but especially anything to do with data entry, I just think it's really fantastic. Much faster, once you get it going, than a human being doing it. So, in that sense, great. However, I don't really see it replacing, as you said, you know, are they going to take our jobs?
I don't think they're really going to take the role of a development manager yet. Do you agree? Ha,
Aqeel Sourjah: No, I agree, because it's, like I said, I don't [00:30:00] know whether I'm doing it. I'm not going to toot my own horn, but yeah, there is, um, yeah, you need to be creative. And like, like I said, my job entails solving problems. Maybe you'll have an AI that solves my problem, solves all the problems, and, uh, you don't need a development manager anymore.
But, um, yeah. Until then, you just need to stay in front, give that extra edge that your clients want, extra bit of thing that your client wants, and yeah, basically try and stay ahead of the curve as much as possible. Embrace it. I'd say the, yeah, I'd say embrace it as much, the latest technology, use it, figure it out, play around with it.
You won't know what you're doing, but If you're ahead, you'll get, you'll get used to it and it'll be part of your day to day workflow.
Stephen Drew: Very, very cool. All right, that, that's interesting. Now, the basically kind of winding down a [00:31:00] little bit here, but I like to be positive because there's a lot of doom and gloom. We've been through a lot of stuff, right? We've been through COVID, you know, the market sentiment's been here and there. Now, I feel, the time we're recording this, it's 2024, July, right?
I think that It feels in London, especially when we're talking about the market, it feels like things are picking up, things are more positive. Is that something that I plucked out of the air? Am I hallucinating or do you feel as well quite positive at the moment? Um, do you think the market's going in a better direction than it was before, Akil, in terms of things happening?
You're seeing more projects. Do you feel more confident?
Aqeel Sourjah: Yeah, like, yesterday's news actually is a good sign of the Bank of England reducing the rates.
Stephen Drew: Yep.
Aqeel Sourjah: It's a good sign, obviously, but, um, yeah, no, like, what we see is If [00:32:00] there is a good project to be done, that people are willing to invest. It is a bit, it's tougher than an easy market. So you need to really work hard to get things to, uh, a profitable, make things viable at the end of the day.
Uh, but no, I definitely think, uh, with, We are getting to the end of it, and we, we will have some really good years going forward. And it's, these, these years have been, this, at least for me, the last year has been a huge learning curve. It's,
it is selfish enough. It's, it's a, it's very, you start, you start off with fire, so you know how to deal with fire in the future. So I'm not saying every cycle is gonna be the same. But at least you know some of the precursors, how you dealt with different things. So it's a good, really good learning curve, especially for like junior staff, uh, like us, uh, just coming into the industry.
But, so yeah, I definitely see the market picking up quickly. [00:33:00] Uh, looking at the pipeline, looking at everything going across, there's a few, uh, different, uh, markers that need to sort itself out, but it'll get there. I'm, I'm positive.
Stephen Drew: hope you feel positive. That's good. And the last question I was going to say from me is Maybe in terms of professionally, what are you excited about going forward at the moment? Um, what, yeah, what are you excited about?
Aqeel Sourjah: Just, just change in how people work and live, like, it's, it's gonna create some really cool spaces, really cool projects, really, like, at the end of the day, I got into architecture development, is to, Appreciate this real asset, basically, actually, to see something that's actually there and say, Oh, I've, I've been part of that project.
I've been, I've designed that project to an architect. So [00:34:00] I'm really excited to see how that's going to evolve, how we'll move, how we're going to move forward as a country, as a society. And, yeah, as human, if you put it in a much larger scale. And yeah, because when COVID came and people were like, oh, people aren't going back to the office.
That gave us, like, developers a whole different question of how you What do people want? What do people So it's, it's because we are designing for people, designing for, uh, creating space for people to work and live with. It's, it's, that's what I'm excited to see. What, how we're going to evolve with AI, with work patterns, whether if you, like, how futuristic works, etc.
Just, you know, Seeing what the revolution is going to be like, we've come a long way, uh, and yeah, looking forward to the next few, next, yeah, how may so years basically, as long as it's an industry. But yeah,[00:35:00]
Stephen Drew: I'm sure you will be. I'm sure you will be. Now, the last thing before you go, because I ask all these questions, right? But I think it's often unfair I get to ask all the questions. Maybe you have a question for me. And, um, You can ask me whatever you want and so I like to spring it on people so I get a real question, um, for that.
Is there anything, because we spoke once twice now, that you'd like to ask me, pick my brains on, get my opinion on at all?
Aqeel Sourjah: I would say no, like my, yeah, what I would like, yeah, maybe if you could, yeah, you've spoken to a lot of different people in that industry and like, if there was like a few qualities that you see. And you've, I believe you've been in recruitment as well a bit. If I'm correct, yeah, uh, that was a bit, uh, yeah, just sort of like different qualities.
You may, maybe it helps the listener understand what different, like you've spoken [00:36:00] to really senior people, to everyone, if you've noticed any really, I don't know, qualities that people can work on that people like, or like, or everyone's uniqueness is what's important. I don't know.
Stephen Drew: so I think especially maybe we talk about it more in the development property real estate and maybe we'll talk about The qualities of people that I speak, I come from architecture to go into that, because it's very interesting. So a lot of people, again, like I said before, have a bad day and they go, screw this, I'm going to get more money and work for a developer.
And it doesn't work that way straight away. In theory, you could earn more, right? I mean, you still can earn a pretty buck if you're a partner at Fosters and Partners, right? You can still earn a few pounds. I think the misconception is going into it for the money. So I think. Sometimes, money in the back, okay, is fine, but really, the people that I [00:37:00] see go far in property development, it's exactly like you said, they have a different thing.
They care about good design, but they're not precious about doing it, and they like the overview, they like projects, they're quite organized. They're quite meticulous. It's quite methodical. It's very different. It's project management and skills. I see a lot that people do really well. And then making decisions as a quality that I see making decisions a lot.
And, um, I'm being generic. Yeah, I'm sure, like you mentioned, Quadrant are being really good employers and I'm glad you're enjoying it well, right? But when I speak to, um, people who are looking for. An architect to come to a developer, right? The people that don't go to the end, they're not the ones asking about the nine to five.
And that's not to say you're not, you don't get a break, but really in development, when you've got a project, sometimes you have to be on site early in [00:38:00] the morning. You have to do what it takes to get there. And you have to, you have to just vote. You have to just make it happen. Right. So I see the, and that's the kind of people that do really well from my experience in property and real estate.
They just get it. They're just on it. They're driven. Right. And it's very, very different. So, uh, the types of questions that those people ask me behind the scenes, when they're looking for it, when I've recruited in property, Um, real estate, it's always been about what's the project, what's the scope, what's my role, who's the company, what's my involvement, right?
Whereas in architecture it tends to be more about how do the projects look like, what's the work life balance, what's this, what's that? There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a distinction in attitude. So that's number one, and then when I've done podcasts with people who have gone, like yourself, and made the [00:39:00] journey, They tend to be quite methodical, analytical, well considered, and quite thoughtful. Not that architects and designs aren't. A lot of them are, but you just asked me what the common qualities are. And so I always think it lends itself more real estate to project management. Like you say, having that skills is very different than designers, but the overall picture. And you touched upon it.
You said my role is really dynamic. I think especially when you're entering real estate and development. It is very much like that. I had one role, um, years ago for a real estate property developer. I was looking for a part one architectural assistant esque and some of the responsibilities were like.
Being the receptionist. And it was really interesting because it really wasn't about that, but what they were looking for is someone who will just throw themselves into the practice. But because that line was in there, it put a lot of people off. Um, and, and, [00:40:00] and I learned a lot from that really. And the person that got the job in the end was just like, I will do whatever it takes.
And was that person on reception a lot? No, hardly ever. They just picked up a call once in a while, but that's what it took to get through the door. And, uh, I think you've got to have that attitude of not being precious. That's the
Aqeel Sourjah: Yeah,
Stephen Drew: to say, you know, and also the last misconception that I see, I'm slightly changing the question.
You asked me about the common trades, but, um, the, uh, I'm just doing a bonus one, right? Misconceptions that people have when they go to real estate. I think a lot of people think that they first roll, they're going to be on shit loads of money, excuse my language. Sorry. I know it's my own podcast, but I shouldn't swear.
Um, but they think they're going to be on loads of money. Right. And it's not like that. You have to work your way up and prove yourself. And I, and that's one of the biggest misconceptions as well. So I could speak to a design architect at a good place and they go, I want to go to a developer and I want to be [00:41:00] on.
80k and I'm like, okay, what are you on now? And they're like 45k. And I'm like, you've got to wake up to the real world. Stop being so cuckoo. You know, you've got to build yourself up because that's the other thing I was going to say, when you go to a developer, right? You learn real estate, you learn new skills, right?
They see the potential in you, but you haven't done it before, have you? So you've got to prove yourself that you can do it. And not everything you do That in architecture you're gonna do in your new role, so it's very different. Do you agree with that last ramble at the end?
Aqeel Sourjah: 100%. Hence why I said, I'm still learning. Like, I've been in this job a year. The things that I don't know, I don't know. I've had really good, like I said, quadrants have some really good people I can always lean on.
Stephen Drew: Mm hmm.
Aqeel Sourjah: I could always turn around and like, Oh, how does this work? And then ask those questions. I think something's quite important [00:42:00] is knowing, not being afraid to ask questions.
Stephen Drew: Yeah
Aqeel Sourjah: Because some people are, they, they, I don't know, they think that, yeah, when, if, if I don't know something, someone's going to judge me if I ask the question, like I've, I've, yeah, I've had, um, like I had my founding partner tell me, like, he's like, um, ask questions, always ask questions because you can be the most senior person in the room, but you sometimes you don't know what you don't know and you shouldn't be afraid to have gained that knowledge.
So. I, I just be inquisitive and like you said, driven and be ready to, I wouldn't say, yeah, be ready to get into the trenches basically, and be ready. Do what, which, whichever, like, especially at the start of your career, you can't be too precious. You need to learn. Yeah. Get, get to different scenarios, get learn, and.
But you might have to put a few extra hours in, but it's all, it's, yeah, and I think what's important [00:43:00] is you won't be able to do it unless you actually like the job. Like you, unless you wake up in the morning on a Monday morning and like, ooh, I can't wait to get in. Or like a Sunday evening, you're like, so you need to actually like it.
So it's not for everyone, I would say. No matter what job you do, architecture, development, whichever, at the end of the day you need to really, really like what you're doing. It has to be sort of a hobby.
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Aqeel Sourjah: To be honest, like, where you
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Aqeel Sourjah: basically pick up a phone on holiday and you wouldn't think twice. I'm not saying that's a good trait.
I'm not endorsing non work life balance, but I'm saying it's, it becomes such a hobby that sacrificing a bit, yeah, wouldn't really put you off. Because at the end of the day, to be successful, you need to do, everyone pays their dues, I would say.
Stephen Drew: yeah, I think I've [00:44:00] started to come around to that idea because on one hand, work life balance is really important. But then there's no doubt that if really, if you put more time in, you're more likely to get ahead quicker. That's what I'm learning now. So it is kind of. That's the thing, right? I'm not talking about being taken advantage of and working long into the evening.
And I think that's where it gets really blurry and that's where it's a sensitive topic because You know, some people can work long hours in a place they're not happy with, but that's not what we're talking about here. You're talking about, if you're passionate about something, getting that project over the line.
Sometimes you're going to have to take a call right in the evening, but it might save you a lot of time. The next day, right?
Aqeel Sourjah: Exactly. Yeah. Save you a headache. It's just, it's just getting, it's being passionate about that and being ready. Yeah. Then it has to excite you at the end of the day. Whatever you do. Life.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think it's ironic. When I was in a job that I didn't enjoy, I would be clock watching, um, and I couldn't wait to get [00:45:00] out of there. But in a, in a role that you enjoy a bit more, you tend to work a bit more, um, because you enjoy it, right? That's where it can help sometimes to have a partner in real life that tells you to stop doing it.
Like, get off that computer! What are you doing? So maybe you rein yourself in that way, you
Aqeel Sourjah: yeah, my, my girlfriend would Yeah, agree with you.
Stephen Drew: There you go.
Aqeel Sourjah: asked me a million times to , get off the computer while on holiday, but I'm like, yeah, but there's a fire. There's a fire that needs to be . Yeah, but
Stephen Drew: get off your laptop. What you doing? We supposed to be bloody going out. So no, I there is a balance with
Aqeel Sourjah: exactly. You need to be smart about it. At the end of the day, you, you shouldn't die for a job, obviously, but you need to know where you, where you draw the line and where you'd be passionate and where you, where what the right things are to do.
Stephen Drew: Yeah,
Aqeel Sourjah: Like, I'm definitely not endorsing bad work life balance, but like you said, it's about making it a hobby.
I
Stephen Drew: yeah, and maybe the [00:46:00] last week I'm so maybe it's about being. I like that when you said being smart about it. And the last thing I'll say on it as well, isn't it? Is that like working long hours on someone else's projects that your heart's not in it and you know you're not going to get something out of it.
That's that's Not good, right? And you should look at that situation and any long hours constantly like that, you should look into it. But what we've been talking about is almost be smart and, and think about yourself, isn't it? Will this benefit my career? Will I learn something from it? Will it get me where I want to go quicker?
All right, then maybe that's okay. Maybe there is the competition that you want to do the long hours for because right now you can do it and you think it could be really good for your career, then give it a go. But, you know, it's always just keeping check of things,
Aqeel Sourjah: yeah, it is a quite sensitive topic where there's no correct answer, but it, it's, it depends on
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think it's good to talk about it though. It shouldn't be so divisive, should it [00:47:00] really? Um, and it depends what person's priorities are, because, you know, in 10 years, you're a family, you might think a bit differently about things. However, when you're kind of gunning it at the start, that's a good time to jump in.
But anyways, um, I really appreciate you being here, Kiel. Now, if the listeners, whether they watch this on video or audio, want to get in touch with you. Where's the best place to find you? Where should they reach out to you on?
Aqeel Sourjah: My LinkedIn would be the best place, I would say.
Stephen Drew: Okay,
Aqeel Sourjah: Easiest place.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, all right, so find you on LinkedIn. That's Akhil Sourjha, and I'll put the link in the bio, get in touch with you there. A Quadrant Estates, Quadrant, love it. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it, been a fantastic guest. Stay on the stage for one second while I say thank you to the audience.
Thank you for being here. Bianca. Um, I'm glad, hopefully you enjoyed this. We got more content coming. I've been having a little [00:48:00] break, been doing other stuff in the business, but I'm back and we've got some in person things coming. Some live streams and some non live stream live streams like this, but they're just as good.
They're just as good. And we'll, we've got lots of stuff coming as well. So stay around for more content, but have a great day wherever you are. Let me know what your thoughts are. If you have some comments, whack them down. I might look at them. I might forget, but maybe put a comment anyways. Thank you so much, everyone.
Take care. Bye bye.