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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
Hey guys. Welcome back to the Dads Hired podcast. You may or may not know this, but we are a nonprofit and at the end of every year we try to raise funds that will send us into the following year. Um, you may not know this, but we have 174 guys who. Donate every month to this ministry. They are the guys who help keep us going.
Um, we have tens of thousands of listeners, millions of downloads, and 175 guys who have chipped in every month to help us keep going. Um, one thing I'm gonna ask is if you consider yourself part of the dad tar community. This has been helpful for you at any way. Whether you've read a book or you listen to the podcast or you're part of the community where you're trying to find a hundred new guys who would partner with us every month, um, if you would consider doing that, that would be massively helpful to us as a ministry to keep reaching the goals, reaching men for Christ.
Um, again, we're looking for a hundred new guys who would join us every month at any level, whether you can chip in five bucks or 20 bucks or a hundred bucks, whatever it is, but just a hundred new guys who say This ministry is really helpful for me. I'm gonna chip in some so that we can see it keep moving forward.
If you wanna do that, you can go to dad tire.com and then just click the donate button and you can set up a monthly gift there. Again, it would be massively helpful. Also, wanna tell you guys about my friends over at Samaritan's Purse, um, I am a huge, huge fan of them. They have a project called Operation Christmas Child.
They do this every year. Millions of kids have gotten into discipleship relationships. Heard the gospel made decisions for Christ because of Operation Christmas Challenge. You've probably heard about it or seen it at some church, um, near you. They are huge. Um, this is a shoebox. I'm actually, if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you can see I'm holding one of the shoe boxes.
Layla and I actually got to go and see these getting passed out and to the kids actually receiving these for the first time. It is, um, I already loved Operation Christmas Child and Samaritan Spurs. But I will say seeing it in person and the ministry that they're doing in person made me, uh, like a, a bigger fan times 10.
Um, because what they're doing, again, they, they are, what they say is they're not a Santa Claus ministry. They're not just trying to pass out gifts. They are a discipleship ministry. They are trying to teach people. The gospel, they share the gospel with the kids and then they use these shoe shoe boxes as a tool to share the gospel with the kids, with their families, and then get them into discipleship relationships.
That's why I love what they're doing. They're not just a Christmas gift, um, ministry. They meet with these kids and get them into discipleship programs and mentor relationships and discipleship relationships. All year long. It's not just a Christmas ministry or a shoebox or a Christmas gift ministry.
They are a discipleship ministry. We would want every guy to be part of this. They have national Collection week where you can pack these with your family, with your small group, with your church, but you need to pass them out or you need to get them to them by. November 18th to 25th. If you wanna learn more about that, go to samaritans purse.org/occ.
Again, that's samaritans purse.org/occ.
Laura ler. So good to see you again. It has been years since you and I have been on a podcast together. Uh, I have so much to talk about with you and catch up with you. It feels like a sister in Christ that we haven't like had a long time. It's been too long since we've caught up, but anyway, I. For our audience who may not know you or like the, um, two people who have never heard of you that are listening to the show.
Uh, tell us who you are, what you're up to these days. Okay. Well thank you Jared. I'm happy to be back. It's super fun to talk with you and you're right, it has been way too long. Um, my name is Laura Ler and I am the co-founder, uh, and executive director of Risen Motherhood. And that's just a nonprofit that really helps moms connect their faith to their motherhood.
That's our. Whole goal. We have a podcast, blog, social media, all the things a digital organization would have. And, um, I do a lot of work over there. And then in my other time, I have the privilege of being an author and I love getting to write, in particular for children, although I also write for adults.
And in the past few years, have found a new love for poetry. Um, kind of a, a modern style of poetry that. Maybe some people are like, is that really poetry? But I have confirmed that it is poetry I'm writing over there and it's so much fun, um, to really just connect the gospel, um, more in emotive and emotional ways.
Um, so I've been doing that. And then of course, family life. I've got three kiddos, uh, married to Mike, who's an engineer, and we live in central Iowa. So. Okay. So many things just on that introduction alone. Yeah. But, um, have people really been asking like, is that really poetry? Is that like a real thing at, at first, yes.
And even when I started writing it, I didn't know it was poetry. And actually it was my Instagram community who pointed that out to me and I was like, oh, this is poetry. So, um, poetry is really, truly anything you want it to be. Like, that's what I mean. It's like art, you know? Yes. You can kinda. Yeah, exactly.
And I think, I thought, you know, old school roses are red, had to rhyme, had to Right. Um, have some sort of special meter and it's just called like, kinda like free write poetry. Um, really can be whatever you want. So are you, uh, a fan of like, uh, spoken word poetry or? Yes. I mean, I've always loved that kind of stuff.
Yeah. Yeah. Like Jackie Hill, Perry. Mm-hmm. Like her stuff back in the day. And, um. I've spoken word poetry. It's like some of my, it's one of my favorite mediums for art. Yes. It's just so, so cool and it's really incredible what they're doing. Like when you start to break down the rhyme, the depth, the theology, it's like this is, this is art.
This is true mastery. It's really incredible. Yeah, totally. I remember, so you and I met when we both were starting podcasting. Mm-hmm. Which was like, that was almost a decade ago. I know. Can you believe that? I, look at us. We're old. It's so crazy. I remember being on the kitchen table, and I think I had started Dad tired, maybe like a month or two before you guys had started Risen Motherhood and you guys were one of our first interviews that I did.
Yeah. And then I remember specifically writing, like for any guys, like you need to tell your wives about this new thing, r motherhood. And then you guys just without, not because of my Oh, probably, certainly wasn't because of that. Um, I, it was because you guys were just producing such amazing, much needed content on.
Mm-hmm. But I mean, you guys just exploded, right? Wisdom, motherhood exploded. What was that like going from starting to just. To the moon. Yeah. Yeah. Very unexpected. I mean, the Lord was very kind. And you know, our expectation was, Hey, we're just gonna record about five podcast episodes. See what happens. And truly, truly, everyone thinks we have a master plan.
No, there was no master plan. We were gonna fade off into the distance I was gonna keep doing my thing. She was gonna keep doing her thing. And yeah, the response really was. Like, a lot of times you, you know how it is on the internet, you can kind of just feel like I'm just talking to no one out there, you know?
And um, there was just this immediate resonance among moms and so that was really incredible to feel like there was some, like a moment of affirmation, but ultimately, like I look at that and know it wasn't us. Like we are just two moms from central Iowa. Truly. Like I have tons of friends here. I'm like.
We're just the same. Like I have no special gifting, no special knowledge, anything. Um, God really made that happen, and it was definitely jarring to go from being known in some circles, like, you know, being known not at all, and then being known in some very small circles. I always tell people like, it's sort of like.
You know, people are like, oh, she's famous. And I'm like, yeah, but if you have to tell people that I'm famous, like then I'm not, you know, we need a new definition of fame because that doesn't really work. So among a small group of moms, like perhaps they know my name or usually recognize my voice more than anything.
Yeah, it's weird because you can be like really famous in like a small niche. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, um, which yours? It's, I don't even know if it was considered a small niche anymore. 'cause you really, you guys really did. You know, blow up, which is, yeah. Why do you think it, why do you think it took off?
I mean, obviously God's grace and favor was on it, but like, yeah. What, like nerve do you think you guys hit? Yeah, I mean I think for moms at the time when we started there was sort of a lot of people doing theology and these big deep thinkers, especially male dominated space. Mm-hmm. And then there were a lot of mommy bloggers and they were saying, these are the diapers to buy.
Here's how to, um. Sorry, can I let my dog out really quick? You said this was a cash conversation, please. I have a brain needs to go out so bad. Do it. Do it. Hang on. I've been gone like all day at kids' party stuff and bible study and so my poor dog has not been taken care of as I should. But I, uh, yeah, we got a new puppy.
So what kind of dog do what? I feel like our dogs might be similar. What did you make? Mini golden doodle. Golden doodle. We have a bernadoodle. Oh, doodles are the best I know. So fun. Well, doodles are the best when they don't have a lot of doodle or oodle. Yes, that's about right. You're right. 'cause poodles are like super smart, but also like kind of high strong and they're just, I mean, no offense to all the poodle owners out there.
They're weird looking dogs. Like, I want, I, I, they're very smart. I want the intelligence and I want the, like, not shedding. Yep. But if it just turns out to be like super poodle looking, it's, this is a weird fucking, I know. The first time I brought my dog to the groomer, they poodle groomed him. Yeah. Like true poodle groomed him and I was like, n nope, we're not gonna do that again.
So, no, she has her first appointment tomorrow and I'm like, please. 'cause she's got that, she's a burner like the Bernese Mountain dogs. So it's that big shaggy. Totally. I'm like, please don't take away that big shaggy. I know you show some pictures, it's just like getting a real haircut. You know? You gotta, you gotta really train those people what you want.
Have you done a good job training your dog? I think so. People say he is well behaved. Um, that's great. Yeah. I used like a positive affirmation methodology, which was different than how my poor dog was raised, you know? And it seems pretty good. I mean, he's imperfect. He's four now, so. Oh wow. He certainly has, every dog has their vice.
I feel like every dog owner I meet, they're like, I couldn't. To get this one thing, you know, out of it. What's the thing you, what's the thing you couldn't get your back to do, uh, barking when people come to the door. Oh, really? It kills me. He doesn't jump on people, you know, he doesn't, he's like super chill and laid back.
He obeys. He comes when called. Like he can be like, really? We live out kind of in a few acres here and he could be super far and I'll call and he'll come sprinting to me. Mm. But when people come to the door, he is guard dog mode and it just. It makes me bananas, honestly. How's training going for you? Yeah, there's pros and cons I guess.
'cause guard dog's nice. You know, especially, I guess. Yeah. But he can't do anything. If they were to actually come in, he'd like cower behind me. I'm sure. Uh, it's going well for, I'm like in full dog training mode. Yeah. Like I'm listening to, as I'm traveling, I'm listening to dog training podcasts. That's how weird.
I, so deep. I know. Not even surprised. And I like, uh. Yeah. I, we, so I hired a gal, a local gal, to like come train once a week. Cool. Yeah. Um, and she's like, teach me. And she came over last time and she's like, you could be a dog trainer. I'm like, I, I, it was like I told her, I'm like, with my kids, I wanna make them the most trained disciples I know.
And I don't want to deal with other people's kids, you know, and I don't want other people's dogs. Yeah, that makes sense. But for my dog, yeah. I'm going, I go real deep into whatever I get into. Yeah, I know. I, I see that in you. Yes. Do you from afar? Yes. Oh, legitimate. Well, just the way that you asked good questions.
Especially when we first met. Mm-hmm. You, you know, and you were, you're a very curious person and you wanna learn and you're humble. And I think all of those typically lend themselves to people who, who like to learn and go deep into things. I'm kind of that way. I totally nerd out on stuff. Yeah. And I'm like, every collective knowledge, let's go.
You know? Yeah. I wanna learn so. I know. Yeah, you definitely have an entrepreneurial spirit too. Thank you for saying that, by the way. Hmm. Um, so what's the latest with, you said risen motherhood is like coming to an end. What, like for you, what does that mean? Yeah, I mean, and why I. You know our listeners.
Yeah. Good questions. Um, so we love, here's my poetic side coming out. I like to use the poetic word we are sun setting. Yeah. And um, it's a great word 'cause it's pretty, but it is coming in an end, but it's great. Graceful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Okay. You get it. Um, so yeah, we are coming to an end. It's kind of, it sounds complicated, but in my mind it's very clear.
Essentially we are not producing any more content as of April 26. Nope. 25. This is where it gets complicated because dates, yeah. April 25 is when we're not producing any more content. Then that content will stay up for one more year for moms to access. They can download, they can copy, they can do whatever they want.
And um, at that point we are going to actually, I. Erase our footprint on the internet. Wow. Which is a big move. And probably overall the response has been really incredible. Okay. Like, people are so supportive. It'll be 10 years by that point that we've been doing this. And, um, everyone's like really understanding of all the reasons and like.
Why we would do that and love the example. But the thing that I think the rub is, is that we're getting rid of the content. Yeah. And there are a lot of reasons behind that. Um, probably more than we even have time for today. But the big one really is so that Emily and I, my co-founder, can sleep at night.
You know, there is an element of, we are very high touch in terms of what goes on at the ministry. We have a team of eight women. They're incredible. Um, but we're still really involved. And I think you had asked previously, you know, why. Has risen motherhood been successful? Um, there are, I think many reasons, and of course, like you said, first one is just Gods kindness.
Yeah. But one of the reasons I think is that we have been so high touch with the organization and really never taken our eye off and really tried to like. We've sort of just been like, Nope, we're risen, mother. We're not gonna do what other people are doing. We're not gonna, we're gonna do it differently.
We're gonna do it our way, the way the Lord is leading us. And we've been pretty firm with our convictions there. And in order to really, truly close, risen motherhood. Um, we don't want stuff out there that we don't have an eye on. Mm-hmm. And we don't want things sort of hanging that, you know, things change in the Christian world so quickly.
Um, and we have recommended resources. We have articles up from, uh, writers all over the world. Um, there are things even in motherhood that change in age. Motherhood does not age super well if you're talking about true practical day-to-day motherhood. A lot of that content while yes, some of it is so evergreen because of course the gospel is transcendent.
A lot of the examples or the way that we talk about it is just doesn't age very well. So there's also a protection there for ourselves that we're able to sleep at night and also not, I don't know, inadvertently be offensive or miss something. Um, and then. Probably above all that to protect our kids. Um, you know, you just hear a lot about pastor's kids or kids who have parents in ministry and I think as our kids have entered middle school, we have really felt like, you know, when we first started rm, we.
Kind of shared more freely about them and use them as examples and, um, I think it's kind of, it's normal. It's what a lot of people do. They feel so young and innocent, like they'll never grow up. And then, um, we got better about that, right? As we became better podcasters, better at speaking, we really were good at protecting them.
But there's an element of like, there's still a whole world of stuff. Yeah. Um. Um, and so we want to remove that and just like, let our kids grow up as regular kids and not feel like, oh, there's these weird stories about me somewhere on the internet. Yeah. I, I can a hundred percent relate to that. Yeah. And have been trying to protect my kids from that.
That makes sense. I'm, I'm, you guys have done such great work. I'm just, I'm so proud of you guys and, and the work that you've done, the way God has used you to reach moms. I want to, I mean, I, there's so much that I want to just catch up with you in your life, but. Um, I also want to get some practical stuff that I know the guys that are listening.
Okay. You know, um, if you could, like, I think one thing that maybe our guys listening to is like, well, let me phrase it this way. If there's one thing you wish husbands knew or dads knew from a wife's perspective is, I know that's a loaded question. It's a hard question to answer, but is something come to mind immediately?
Like, man, I just really want. Like for here, I'll, I'll give you some time. Alright. Alright. Alright. And I'll give you an example from the opposite side. Okay. So, one thing I wish wives knew is how much their words really have power for us as men. Okay. Yeah. You know, like, I don't think, I think a lot of women and wives underestimate how much power they can speak into a man's life.
Yeah. When a wife comes to a man and is like you, you do have what it takes to lead our family. Well, I'm proud of you. I see what God's doing in you and I'm getting, you know, just kind of calling him up to that. Yeah, I think a lot of wise we're like, I don't know if my husband even listens to me, but truck likewise we listen and it like it empowers us.
So in that kind of vein, like, yep. You know how, what do you wish husbands knew? Yeah, men knew. I mean, honestly, immediately, even before you said that, I was, I was just thinking like of what a gift it is to moms when the husband, well, two things I would say. One is when he just like steps up and starts serving and not just necessarily playing with the kids, because I think like dads are like, cool, cool.
I can engage with the kids. I'm gonna wrestle whatever. Yeah. Like he goes over and does the dishes without being asked, and there's no expectation of thanks. You know, a lot of times my husband will do the dishes and I'm like, oh, thanks honey. Like he just did me a favor, you know? Yeah. And I work full time and so does he, and yet.
We still tend to fall into those gender roles, even though I don't, I don't think, you know, that there necessarily are gender roles in that sense. Um, and so it's just funny 'cause I think that the, the feeling of a wife is more to nurture more to do those domestic tasks and that's the way God wired us, but also.
When my husband just sees that need and fills it, he's like, I'm changing over the laundry. He doesn't announce it, but he does it, you know? Yeah. Um, or he folds up, there's a, there's a laundry basket on the ground and he folds it. Um, those kind of things mean so much to me and like. I notice it's not like the kids were suddenly like, oh, the dishes have disappeared and they don't have a clue how they ended up, you know, cleaning the drawer again.
They just expect that. Yeah, totally. The wife and the mom, they notice and it matters to them. And to see a husband just jumping up and being ready to serve, uh, I think that is huge. And I think it's really simple. I think it's, um, just something that's like, okay, turn on the football game and fold laundry.
Like and don't, don't have to be asked. Just do it. Yeah. It would just like, it's just a gift. Moms would breathe a big sigh of relief. It's so funny because when we think through, like as a man, I'm just speaking honestly here. Mm-hmm. When? Mm-hmm. When I think through all the ways that a wife, my wife can show me love.
Like doing the dishes, it probably doesn't even make the list. And she's like, yeah, that probably 'cause like the kids, like you just think that's gonna happen 'cause you're just gonna go to the drawer and Yep. You're gonna be clean dishes there. But I, it's hard to, for us as dude to like tie that task to love.
Yeah. And so, but I hear so many wives who, we talked about this on the show a lot, where guys are just like, dude. We can do things for our wives and like, cool, cool, cool. Like, can you please just do the dishes? Like I the trash. I know, I know, I know. And it's like, and like, not even like the exact ones, right?
Like, I expect my husband to mow the lawn or like, whatever your gender roles are at home, whatever they've looked like. Like breaking out of that. That's what I mean. So maybe your wife always does mow the lawn, so then suddenly like you mow it for her without asking. And I think that's like wow. 'cause women are just thinking about productivity and tasks and they're ordering, right?
Like that's, this is their whole world. This is their job. Oftentimes, even though again, I work full time outside the home, I treat the home like a job. Yeah. And I think sometimes. For men or my husband, it'll kind of feel like home is a relaxation place. Home is where I come to unwind and I'm still kind of hustling.
And so to have him join me in the hustle is nice. That's actually a really interesting perspective that you, that's fast. My mind is a little bit blown there. Hmm. So a man's perspective of like, I'm coming home and this is kind of the place I relax and a woman's natural. Yeah. Uh, mindset is this is like a full-time job.
I mean, that's ob when I say that, I'm like, that's yeah. Duh. But the perspective of that is super interesting. Yeah. They call it, um, the invisible labor of motherhood. Um, and so it's just that idea of there is. Constant or the invisible mental load. Maybe that's what it is of motherhood and it's that constant idea that like, yeah, we're working two jobs and we do see it as the the grocery list.
You know, who has jeans that fit? I mean, I don't care how many pants I buy my son. He never has clean pants. It's crazy. It, it's crazy. It's crazy. I like, just this morning he wore the same pair of pants two days in a row. They're dirty. We, I, I couldn't find any clean ones. I don't know how it happened. Yeah.
So, yeah. Then that's part of manhood. I probably the same pair of pants. There's something there that's hilarious. So I, and I think, yeah, there's a very real labor. Like, I, I just, the other day I said to my husband, we were in the, um, upstairs getting ready in the bathroom and I was like, hun, I, I just need you to like.
Apply your mind to, to this. Right now I'm feeling like I'm carrying it all. I need you to take all of the activities. And I just felt like I could not carry, and my son's in drums, he just enrolled and we needed to buy a drum set. We needed to pay the, the. Guy, we need to schedule lessons. We have to take him, right?
So there's all these things that go with, we're signing up for drum lessons, right? And I was like, I just, I don't have capacity for that. And we were kind of sharing kind of, and I was like, that's yours. I just need you to take that mental load so it's not mine anymore. And that was such a gift. I think.
Like sometimes he'll do it naturally, but sometimes I have to be like, this, this kid thing is yours, or this home thing is yours. Um, and usually I can say that, you know, in love and kindness when I'm still. Patient. Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you about how long have you guys been married? Uh, 14 years this summer.
This past summer? Yeah. Yeah. Layla and I are 14 years too right now. Yes. Um, and I was gonna ask you like, how, how long did it take to develop that language where you're able to say something like, Hey, this, I'm at my capacity here. Can you take versus. Was there a point early on in your marriage where that just turned into an argument?
Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah. We did not get married like this. Um, I don't, I feel like it's more in recent years, probably in the last five or so. Um, and I think getting better and better year by year. And some of that is as we have just kind of navigated, like what is our family's style? Right? Yeah. And like, what is our family gonna be about?
And I think there's so many years of figuring. Figuring that out, that you're both just passing things back and forth. But as our kids have gotten older, I do think we sort of define like, okay, these are, this is about how many activities we do, or these are the kinds of activities. And like for my husband, he really manages all activities.
And that has been such a gift to me that like he's figuring out rides, he's figuring out if we need childcare for something or whatever. Um, that has been huge. But for us to be able to say like, Hey, I'm feeling it. In a calm voice probably, you know, last few years, honestly. Yeah, totally. I always tell people it takes, marriage is just practice.
You're just constantly practicing. We're we are not, we are born sinful and selfish. Yeah. And like our, our nature is not to be selfless. Right. Constantly thinking it's practice, it just takes it a lot of practice. So yeah, developing that language is so helpful. And I think probably just speaking from a dude's perspective, like.
Hearing the specific I need this done. Yeah. Is actually super helpful for us. Yes. Yeah. Because we're just like, I didn't know, I mean, I didn't know that that was weighing you down each other. Always. That's always my husband's response. And he is like, yeah, you know, like, no big, and we're women we're like, ruminating.
We're like, why isn't he helping? Or, you know, we're like, when's he gonna figure this out? And literally I told my husband, I was like, I was like, okay, so you got it. And I kinda just looked at him, you know, in the eye like, like almost like. Um, not more intense than I even felt, but I was like, you got it. And he was like, I got it.
And we're like, okay. You know, and it's done well. We like to problem solve. Yeah. So if you give us a task, it's like we're actually, and I'm sure there's just so many wives that are just like, okay, but that's been the same problem every day for the last 14 years. Why couldn't you have just figured that out?
Yeah. Um, we're not that smart, so just like, yeah, just tell us exactly what you need and we'll do it. Yes. And I think like with marriage. I mean, so much of it, and especially this is probably women, or at least I'll speak from a female perspective, it is saying, I need this, like I need. You just, you to, you know, step up and help around the house, or I need you to hold my hand.
I need more conversations on the couch. I need more date night, whatever it is. And I think for women it is so much of like swallowing our pride, it feels like. Fire going down your throat, you know, of like, why doesn't he see that I need this? Or why can't he see that I'm frustrated? Or like, we really do think men should read our minds or our actions or, you know, the, the room, read the room.
And I think for women, that's the perpetual challenge is like if you swallow your pride and just tell him like. 99.9% of the time, he's like, okay. But then we think, well now he's only doing it because I told him he has to, and so it doesn't count. Yeah. Okay. That, yes. Got a whole new set of problems there. I know.
Um, well, I was gonna actually ask you about that from a woman's, because going back to the dishes thing, like does it feel in, I, again, you can't speak for every woman. Sure. I can't speak for every man. Yeah. But from your perspective, does it feel a little bit less loving? Because you said if he just does the dishes without me asking, I know.
I feel very loved. I know. So is it, is there a kind of like, well, if I ask you now, I only feel 50% as loved by you? Well, I think that I could choose to see it that way, and I certainly have, but the way I think the Lord has refined me over the years is to say, no, I can be humble enough. To tell him what I need and then I can be humble enough to receive it as it's given and to trust him.
Um, and so I do think that's an area of growth for me, but absolutely, I used to 100%. Be like, okay, but now, like, do it this time and then like, show me another time that you're doing it without asking, right? Mm-hmm. And that is a weird type of strings attached love, right? That's that's not the love that God calls us to.
And the the kindness of like, Hey, I am going to just, I'm gonna love you regardless, and I'm gonna trust in our relationship here. And so I think that I had to really go through a season of being honest about learning to be really honest about what I needed. And then like his response to just take that at face value.
Mm-hmm. And to say that counts as whatever it is that I needed. And the more that, like you said, as you are affirming and as a female, I've noticed that in my same, my husband, like the words that I speak have so much power to cut down or to build up. And so even though my little heart in me, like, 'cause I'm, I'm more of a.
Um, outgoing personality, you know, a little bit more on the leader side of things. Um, I think that I want to say, well, I don't have to say thanks for doing the dishes, but I still do, I still want to say thank you because I think that like we should all be thanked for the work that we do. I wanna be thanked totally, even though it's expected.
And so there was part of me for a time where I kind of felt like, well, I shouldn't have to say thank you because that's just part of it, but it's like, no, that's pride and that's weird. And just say thanks if like you're grateful. Say it. Hmm. Some of, uh, what you guys have done at Rise Motherhood is teach people how to like gospel pretty much any situation.
Like how do we gospel ourselves in this situation? You kind of alluded to that even in that particular example that you just did. Like, um, can you give us another, I was trying to think of like, can you give us an example of a common parenting thing where you might, you might approach it, like, give us an example of.
This is what could happen and here's what it would look like to not gospel the situation and here's what it would look like to gospel the situation. Okay? Yes. Am I putting you on the spot too much or is it I don't care. No, I don't mind being put on the spot. 'cause I do think, um, I know what you're saying.
I'm just, I'm really terrible of thinking of examples. Um, what's one in the book where you, I mean in ris a motherhood, you guys did that so well, like, um, yep. How does a mom see a situation? We have. I try never to address the moms in our, in our audience. Oh yeah. 'cause I think they like being a fly on the wall.
Oh, okay. Okay. But I'm sorry, I, I know some of you guys are here. Yeah. We'll only whisper. Um, so for a mom, and this is true, I mean this is helpful for even for dads, but like, what would be a common situation? Uh, laundry. Sure. Food meltdowns. Yep. Yep. Okay. Um. Yeah, I mean, I think like, um, we could do like meltdowns.
Um, any of them, any of those things could cause a meltdown. But, um, I would just say like, Hey, your, when your kiddo's having a tantrum, I mean, right. The first thing to do is to just be impatient or to feel frustrated, right? If you are not. Exhibiting Christ, um, yell maybe, uh, force them to do something, create like barriers and have them run into them and then they do as you want.
Um, but I think really for, for a mom, often how, when I think of things that I'm coming up against, um. When you think about it through the lens of the gospel, really what you're trying to do is say, okay, how does God's original design and his plan for my life, like how does it matter to this situation right now?
And what we do at RM is we take a very common pneumonic device that we did not. Invent, but um, sort of have made it a mantra for us of creation, fall redemption, consummation. So taking, uh, different parts of the meta narrative of scripture and helping Imam see. Why the world is like it is and then what hope they have in the gospel.
Um, and so you can look at this and say, okay, well like in the garden, and I'm gonna go fast because there's a thousand things that we could look at, you know, here. Um, but for the sake of the example, like looking at creation and just knowing, originally there was no anger, there was no strife. You know, Adam and Eve were filled with goodness.
God called them very good. They communed with God and there wouldn't have been the relational strife. Uh, pre the fall. Pre-fall. But then we know we had the fall and, um, immediately King kills Abel, right? Like immediately. Right. That's who killed Who did I get that right? No, I'm nervous. Yeah. Abel didn't kill King.
King killed Abel. Okay, we're good. Um, immediate relational strife. Here's how I remember that, by the way. Just Oh yeah. Abel was Abel to make the appropriate sacrifice to Oh, that's good. That's very good. Okay. I have to do those kind of things. Yeah, I know. Me too. I have a terrible memory. Me too. I have terrible memory.
Um, so then, you know, like, Hey, from the fall, the fall explains because we're infected with sin because the world is broken. We know that like. There's gonna be relational problems. Now your kid is going to tantrum. You are going to feel frustrated, right? And then we know that we have Christ. And Christ came and lived a perfect life.
And so he showed us, he modeled through his actions how to deal with people that weren't obeying God, that weren't. Um, kind to him that we're mean, we're spitting on him. Maybe you've got a kid that spits when they're mad. I know I have before and Christ knows. Christ identifies. There's no situation that he has not been through that and he doesn't understand or there's no situation that he does not understand.
And so. That's where I think we can take that hope of the gospel to know that one, that Christ identifies us in these moment with us in these moments, but also that because he died and he gave us his spirit and left that with us, like we have his power in us. Yeah. And so for me as a mom, how that looks practically.
It's like, okay, Lord, I am so frustrated by this situation and my kiddo is being really tough and I do not feel patient. And I'm like talking to him. I'm saying these exact things. Yeah. And I'm like, God, give me patience. I know that I have a supernatural well of patience that I can dip into because of the spirit, because your patience is my patience God.
And so give me that now. Let me ex display that to my child because I want to be as Christ to them. Mm-hmm. And so I think there's that for a mom that tangible. I would call it tangible hope that they can clinging to, of knowing that if they know Christ, if they trust him, that. They can tap into the power of the Holy Spirit and like there is something in them that's working beyond their own abilities to offer patience.
And I don't know, for me, like that can give me almost the chills. I mean, not in the moment of the the, the thing, but right now I'm like talking, I'm like, it's like you just have this like incredible superhero on your side. You know how we all feel whenever you're watching Marvel movies or Lord of the Rings, whatever it is, when like the good guy comes out.
Like that is honestly, I'm like, I got that guy on my side. Like he's running down on a horse with a flag and like he's been a sword and he's coming. And so I think that that is like so exciting. And then, and then there's this other piece to this whole thing that for a mom or for anyone, again, this is, this is all people, all of God's people that like, I think we forget about the hope of heaven.
You know, and that someday like you're not gonna fight with your kid like this. Yeah. And someday, like you guys are all gonna be communing in heaven together. There will be incredible things to do, things to enjoy and like this. Strife, this frustration, these tantrums are gonna be a thing of the past. Yeah.
And that is something to clinging to for hope that I don't think we as Christians do enough. I mean, it's, it's kind of like, okay, cool in something like this. But you think about when your kid's got a disability or you think whenever you've lost a child to miscarriage, or you think about when you've got a kiddo who's older and in jail, like, okay, there are a lot of things where this comes in, and that might be the only thing that carries you for a time because the hope of heaven.
Absolutely changes how you are as a Christian. It changes everything. Yeah. You mentioned, uh, when your kid has a disability, I know that's something that you've become passionate about, you've written great books on. Can you just speak to that area of your life Sure. And how this has become something that's become dear to your heart.
Sure. Yes. Um, so my daughter is seven and she has a, um, she has a genetic disease that basically, uh, causes global developmental delays, but in particular intellectual disabilities. Um, I. And so when she was born, the doctors okay. Should I hit my dog? Can you hear him barking? I can hear him, but I just feel like I'm at the, I'm just, you're just riding the wave here.
Okay. I'm gonna bring him in and then I can focus. Okay. And we're talking about deep things. Sorry. Sorry, I ran, I literally ran. Yeah. Okay. Um, so my daughter has disabilities and, um. When she was born, doctors told us that she would likely never walk or talk. Mm-hmm. And so that was obviously very devastating to hear as a parent.
Um, but over time obviously we discovered that she walks and she can talk. And while she is. Quite delayed behind her peers. Um, she really is quite the miracle for us and we're so thankful. Um, it's really incredible and she is a joy and a delight, but there's also a lot of hardship and pain. Um, high medical needs, um, therapies, lots of different things that go on there.
And so, um, yeah, it's big part of my life. You know, it's kind of one of those things. I was chatting with a friend the other day and, um, she and her husband are really struggling through infertility and kind of getting to that point of feeling like. This is our call, like this is what God has for us. You know, and I, I can't imagine how hard it would be to at some point say, we're not going to try anymore, but we're gonna, you know, try other things.
But that's kind of where they've gotten to is saying like. And maybe biological children isn't what God has for us. And you know, she's, she just said like, I don't, I don't want this to be my ministry. And I was like, I know. I get it. It's like the hardest things in your life God often ends up using as your ministry and, um.
I think that's what it was for me. It was kind of the ministry. I never wanted, I truly felt like, uh, we were actually going to adopt. We had two biological children and we wanted to adopt. And we were in the final stages of that adoption when our daughter was born. And she was diagnosed pretty quickly after two months.
Um, and I thought adoption would be my thing. I thought that would be, I was like, that's the one I chose. That's the calling I picked. Right? Mm. And then God. Was like, Nope, we're going to do disability. And I, I think many people would say, oh, a beautiful ministry has come out of that. And sometimes I can agree, but often I'm like, oh, but I just see the grief and the hardship and it can be hard for me to even see it.
And I know God has used it. I'm being more candid than perhaps I should, because now you've got me all comfortable. But, um, you know, I think that it's. It's a, it is an incredible opportunity to like take your pain and to point others to Jesus through it. Um, and I'm so thankful. I truly am thankful for the privilege to do that and to educate others.
Um, but it's interesting, you know, it's kind of one of those things that I. God just takes the really hard things in your life and he says, I'm gonna use it for good. And um, you're glad, but you're also like, I'm ready for heaven. You know? Sure. Yeah. Um, thank you for sharing. Yeah. Candidly on that, I think that, I think that it's that I would want just that to like kinda sit in the air for a minute for anyone listening, like the amount of people who would, could identify or relate to that idea of.
I don't want this to be my ministry. Like I, can I just go do this one instead? Yeah. I remember there was a point, um, dad tired had kind of like gotten some momentum and we were kind of established as a ministry. And I remember just thinking like all the times that I had as a kid prayed for my dad to come back.
So my dad bailed when I was three. Mm-hmm. And just the years and years and years of just begging God, like, I want a dad, I want a dad, I want a dad. And God never answered that prayer. And then to like, it was almost like I had this perspective of the only reason dad tired exists is because my dad wasn't around.
Like, the reason I am pouring into dad's is because of my dad not showing up. And it was almost like God was saying like, would you trade? Mm-hmm. If, if you knew I was going to use you in this way. Yeah. Would you trade? And I just started like bawling. 'cause I was like, I would've, I wouldn't have wanted that.
You know, like. I don't, I didn't want to have a, I would love to have had Dad, dad growing up. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's messed me up in so many ways. Yeah. But it's also like, and I'm trying to relate to what you said in the sense that Guy, guy was like, you don't, you don't get to pick the ministry. Yes. I, I. Right.
This is what I have for you. Yeah. And he, he has like, he really does turn beauty from ashes. Yeah. And I think that sometimes in your own story it can be hard to see, but you talk to somebody else and they're like, oh, I see God's fingerprints all over this. You know, and that's where the, I think the perspective of community can be so helpful of Yeah.
Other people who can see the beauty of what God has done in your pain and sorrow and, um, I dunno, I think it's really normal to like, not. Be able to see it in your own life. Um, but to, like, for me, I'm like, I, I wanna trust what these people are saying is true. Yeah. And, um, and like allow that to motivate me to continue to do the work that I do believe God has called me to.
And, um, it's kinda like there's that the first feeling of like, oh gosh, no, I would've rather never had disabilities in my life. But then the underlay is like, but ultimately all I wanna do is honor God with my life. And I know that I'm not in control. Of what happens, that he's sovereign. He allows what he allows, and I, that's my goal, is to become more and more like Christ every day like that's all.
And so if this is what it takes to get me to look like him, then so be it. Yeah, man, that's beautiful. Um, so many times I get asked by guys like, is there a version of dad tired for wives, for moms? And so I'm just telling every dad tired listener right now, every guy listening, like, please send your wife all of Laura's stuff.
I mean, you're just doing such a good job. We need more voices like yours. Thank you, um, that are just speaking the gospel. And I think what I've really appreciated, um, is just your raw processing of like, I'm committed to, um. Believing the gospel in the midst of real life. Yeah. And, and then using your gifts of kind of putting that in a really beautiful way through written form, through poetry, through spoken form.
But you're just doing a great job and so thank you for processing publicly. 'cause you're helping a lot of people and uh, men included. But most definitely, I want all of our guys to tell their wives about what you're doing. Yeah. So thank you for hanging out with us. I really appreciate it. Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.