Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
On the road training schools in Trust-Based Observations trainings, we periodically see absolute teaching brilliance during our 20-minute observations. It dawned on us that we have an obligation to share this brilliance with all teachers so they can learn and grow from one another. Each episode is an interview with one of these teachers where we explore their strengths as they share their tips and tricks. Tips and tricks that definitely lead to improved teaching and learning.
Craig:
Welcome to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with trust-based observations. Every week while training school leaders, Craig Randall, the developer of trust-based observations, witnesses brilliant teaching during their 20 minute observations. Wanting to share that teaching brilliance with others, we talk shop with those teachers learning what they do that is so impactful. We hope you enjoy.
Craig:
Hi and welcome to another edition of 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with trust based observations. A few weeks back I was at the John Cooper School in the beautiful Woodlands, Texas and was able to see some really, really amazing teaching over the course of my week there. And one of the teachers I saw was just an outstanding, outstanding art teacher who was so positive and so energetic and had the Project going on and was the feedback and descriptive progress feedback everything about it, which is so energized and fun The kids were so into it That I knew instantly that I had to have Emily on my podcast So Emily, would you do me a favor and introduce yourself and tell them who you are? Where you work? Maybe how you got there your career arc or whatever and then we'll jump right into everything from there.
Emily:
Okay. I'm Emily Taylor. I've been at John Cooper going on 23 years now. I kind of stumbled into it. I got, instead of going for an education degree, degree in education, I ended up going for visual arts and then stumbled into education. And honestly, now I couldn't imagine not having the education part. I still am a practicing artist on the side as well, but education became very, very much fulfilling and life. a life-giving kind of experience.
Craig:
Yeah, I hear you totally on that. So did you ever get certification? I mean, your pedagogy and what you're doing is so strong and you don't necessarily have to have that to do that, but I'm just curious.
Emily:
No, I did not. With the Masters, that was kind of the... Because since they were... Before we were... When I first started, I think we were called Artists in Residence. So we were... expected to be practicing artists.
Craig:
Right.
Emily:
When I first got here in the school was a lot smaller.
Craig:
Yeah.
Emily:
So it was was very different. And then most of it has come from they they give us PD that we can do. You know what I mean? Like there's tons of opportunities to grow. then having resources with the other teachers just over the over the years have been wonderful resources to help me revisit like how I teach what I'm teaching. ways to grow it. So it's like a learning on the go.
Craig:
Learning on the go and from peers and from opportunities that the schools had or outside opportunities they've had. You've just grown your toolbox of strategies.
Emily:
Well, and the feedback what I get from the kids too. makes it a
Craig:
Yeah, that's a good one too, for sure. Thanks for pointing that out. Well, listen, I think when I was in there, there was so much going on. mean, the room was just buzzing and the kids were All of them were so into the project and they would help each other out and like they were focused and they were having fun but they were focused. like you and your just boundless like I wrote an undertone super positive and happy. I've never written super positive before and I just think relationship and behavior management are super important. without those things, I think it's hard to do all the other stuff we want. And so that stands out just so vividly being in that classroom, like I would want to be in that classroom and I suck at art. And so just talk to me about relationship and behavior management. Let's just see where this goes.
Emily:
Let's see. Well, first of all, I believe that every student is uniquely individual. And so trying to be able to create and cultivate a space where they can be themselves and put themselves into their artwork is really important. And behavior management setting the expectations as far as like what the space is and it's a room of respect, right, for each other materials in the space and what that means. And we talk about that and come to an agreement when we start the rotation or semester or whatever. And then just honestly, reminding people tends to help. Like if they're slipping off, just a nice reminder usually tends to bring these kids back. And they're like, oh yeah, right, right, right. You know what I mean? So then they can reengage or they do a lot of obviously helping each other too. They're like, hey.
Craig:
They do, but that doesn't happen automatically. mean, it'll rarely happen automatically. But you've done something to, whether consciously or not, hopefully consciously, to foster that though, where the kids... are just willingly supporting and helping each other out, whether that's somebody holding something while another piece is being done or encouraging them or whatever. Talk to me more about that how that happens because it's important.
Emily:
To be honest, a lot of that is seems to happen naturally between the students because they can sit where they want, right? So they tend to sit with people who they're familiar with. And if they have that kind of positive relationship with other people, then They're like, hey, would you mind, right? Or that kind of stuff when it comes to helping each other. They're also small groups. It's not like we have 20 kids in a class. So that makes a huge difference as well, right? Like having 12 to 14 kids is really, really helpful in cultivating that sense of community and shared space. And honestly, leading by example makes a big difference. If your teacher is... is supportive and instead of pointing out what you're doing wrong, right? Like just bringing things back to what you could be doing. Makes a big difference.
Craig:
I think the leading by example is, mean, I think that's, I think you're underselling yourself, I think because I do, do, think that like, because I mean, you know, you're high energy, at least when you're in there with the kids, you know, you might, they might like completely rest, go turn it down, you know, recuperate after that. But and you, you know, you're a positive presence. You have to know that. And you know, like you're so supportive of those kids. And even when when things aren't going well and we had a pretty good example of that lawyer in there when poor students like piece of art kept cracking and breaking over and over and over again, it was like it was like tragic to watch. the way that you handled it with her like. Like everything you're saying about like saying they well, they just kind of do it on their own. mean Yeah, but I've seen too many classes like I see more people through the lens of observation than any human being I really believe that so it just doesn't Happen like that. I think I want you to talk more about what you're doing because you said like leading by example so I buy that part as being more impactful than they just do it and so Let's talk about what you're doing with that, because it's like it's powerful who and what you are in that classroom.
Emily:
Well, thinking about like that kind of experience, right, where something breaks or keeps breaking and then you build up frustration, right, as an individual. it's, you know, it's it's uncomfortable and they can create stress. And I think back to being a kid and I was very easy to cry. Right. When things when I was hurt or stressed or I wasn't getting something and felt like I was failing, right? Like those things, I would be quick to cry and depending on how that person approached me would dictate where I went from there, right? Like if they were like, oh, right, like then the tears went even more. Or if they like, stop it, then of course the Right? And then if they're like, well, stop that, right? or you're messing up or if they're hard on you, then it comes more, right? But if it's, someone would have taken the pause and been like, oh, well, that's interesting. It's got to kind of, you know, that can be frustrating. So what do you think we should do? Right? Like, it takes you out of that emotional space so that you can take a pause and be like, all right, this isn't a big deal. What's going on? Right? So Personally coming from that experience that is that is what I try to offer these kids is that color your? And come back to be like okay, what is going on right now for me? Like what is emotionally happening? And then what do I can what can I control right like? What can I control in this experience and then move move from that space and move forward?
Craig:
I mean like I'm looking at the form here and and and I see Like with that student, know, after we left on, we've got a list of strategies under the relationships and behavior management. And I added the form because of you and I added the word care, God's honest truth. like that, like the support you created such a safe learning environment when her piece, cause it broke three, four or five times when you're in there in 20 minutes. It's it's tragic. But like you, but you just. Brain determination like that was awesome. But it was no one you pointed that out. But like here's you said, I know it can be very discouraging and no sarcasm in there. like this line here, you said, would you like to have a cleansing moment and put it in the dumpster? Like you gave her choices, right? And you're like, how are you doing? Like it wasn't about the art. was about you. Right. And what that kid was. I mean. Like, just don't see that like that very often. I want you to tell me more about it still. I'm pushing you for more on this.
Emily:
I'm not sure what more I can offer aside from, honestly, it's I mean, we do we do ruler here, right? Like the emotional.
Craig:
Yeah. Yeah.
Emily:
So it's it's a component that's that's part of the teaching and part of what we're talking about earlier about
Craig:
Feeling regulation stuff out of the end. Those that don't know what that is. Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah. And the. professional development opportunities that the school offers. They give us a lot of tools that can help us better support these kids.
Craig:
I mean, listen, I believe this is just who you are at core. But what I'm hearing you say is that that might have even helped enhance and made your toolbox a little deeper beyond that.
Emily:
For sure.
Craig:
Because let's talk about your passion, right? And your your energy because like you were moving all over that room and like with joy. Like I don't write they're doing it with joy on observation forms. I mean, I can tell they're enjoying themselves but like, like, talk about that.
Emily:
So one of the coolest things for me, so I love art, obviously. Right. being able to share that that love with the students I try to, you know, put it out there every time. when they get empowered to create their own art, right? And to put themselves into it and they start getting excited about it. That gets me more excited about it.
Craig:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily:
So it's this cycle that keeps happening. a cyclical thing. Yes. Well, I mean, that's perfect segue. I feed off them and they feed off me.
Craig:
No, no, that makes perfect sense. like, when we were talking beforehand, we talked about like, Like it was art class, but what they were doing wasn't just creating a piece of art. It was a design project. Right. Well, it's like, it was fairly foreign to me and I don't get to see as many art classes as I'd like, because I think that taps into their passion as well. And so why don't you talk about like art and project and design and how that all goes together in what you're doing in that class or your classes or your work.
Emily:
So it's a level one. art class and one of the things that I want them is that art doesn't just exist on a pedestal, in a museum, or on a wall. Anything that's around us was designed by an artist. The chair I'm sitting in, the desk I'm working on, the folder I've got my handouts in, everything was designed by somebody. Right? So we think about then what does that look like from start to finish? then, or what could it look like? then we become the designer and we think about, approach it from, I designing for myself? Like, am I more interested in just creating a product that I would want to buy? Or am I approaching it from the fact of if I would, was going to market my own product and go from start to finish, right? As an entrepreneur, or do I want to try to sell a product to a company? who would then. So we open it up with that kind of broad thing. then within that, we do a cell phone amplifier, right? Because then it's something that's functional. It's something that they can think about, like who is my marketing audience, what age range you're trying to market to, and then what we think about what those interests look like, right? Like an elementary kid is going to have a very different interest than someone who's working in a cubicle. So thinking about then what is the function of it? Where is it meant to go? Is it meant to be portable? Is it meant to be sculptural? Is it meant to be something else when it's not in use? Everything is open. Everything is open to possibilities. And then from there, they go on to designing, creating. They build the object. Think about color theory, surface design, that kind of stuff. your options and possibilities of what it looks like, not just the form, but the imagery and color, all that good stuff goes into who you're marketing to. You want to reflect that. And then at the end, they do promotional material, so to promote their own product. And it can look like something that is a pop-up. It can look like a mock-up of all the bells and whistles of the product itself if they were going to present it to a company and try to get them to buy it. Or it could even look like packaging design. So what it would look like on a store shelf. And then within those, there's tons of different ranges.
Craig:
So what I'm hearing you say is through the lens of art, one, you're expanding the definition of what we might traditionally think of as art. anything that's designed as art, you could say that in essence that, I've never thought about this before and I feel a little silly saying it, but then creating trust-based observations is art. Like, because I over time, maybe not. Purposely necessarily, but I was designing and creating and evolving it. So that is a form of art as well. And so through the lens of an art class and through your supportive, positive nature of who you are and what you're creating in that class, you're teaching those kids like no matter what they do in their lives, there are times in their lives where they will be designing or creating or problem solving or figuring out something that might or might not be art, but oftentimes could be under this broader definition of art, could be art. And you're creating design thinkers, problem solvers that are thinking you're training them to think comprehensively about a project and everything that goes into that and experience all the elements of that. There is where I might have greater strength, not as great as strength. Learn how to work on that. Learn how to do that and come through this process in a way that to me feels like, man, through this like phone amplifier art class where I'm just seeing you buzz around and and work with these kids for 20 minutes. You were teaching them life. Yes.
Emily:
Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully they're they're getting a lot out of it as far as not only the art aspect and learning skills within the materials that they're working with, but to think about the bigger picture and be empowered to to realize that they can by subtle changes and subtle decisions that they might make, take things in in whole new directions and create different narratives.
Craig:
It's insanely powerful. I mean, it was fun to watch it. And I don't think I grasped it all when we were there. I mean, I had some sense of it, but what you're explaining now, it's really blown me away in terms of what it's doing. mean, the art is beautiful. What you're doing in that class and like, like I'm my art skills are like stick person figures. But like I would have so much fun and learn so much in that class. And I probably end up being a pretty decent artist because of all the stuff that you're teaching. But more than that, everything else that you're teaching like that's that's like life skills 101 really is what it is I mean it's it's crazy it just blows me away bravo. Let's talk about while they're doing the work. And I think this connects to it as well is as you're watching this multifaceted process happen, you have to constantly be formally assessing or checking for their understanding. And then you've got to be able to provide descriptive progress feedback that guides them to the next steps in their learning, which can be different for each one of the kids along the way. And Like watching you do that. And we talk about there's three types of feedback. Basic, where we're giving them the answer. Like quick, they just get them back on track. Instructional, where you're giving that tip, many hints, suggestion, whatever. And then coaching, where you're using questions to guide the students to find their own answer, which usually ends up being the deepest learning. And they all have value, but man, you were just, it was, you had elements of the other, but the coaching and guiding them to figure it out on their own was. was huge. So will you just talk about your own process with checking for understanding or formative assessment and providing feedback to guide them and support their growth?
Emily:
Sure. We do, we use a formal rubric, right? Every two weeks as that kind of thing with just a conversation between the students and myself. So they complete it, write notes to me, things to consider, and then I complete it and pass that back. So that's one aspect of it. And then the other honestly is is trying to make it around to every kid at least a couple times during the class period to be able to see their progress, answer any questions, ask questions to see what's happening, where they're going. It's a lot of question asking.
Craig:
There is a lot. you're doing
Emily:
That's kind of how I guess I do it is a lot of questions. So how's it going? What do you think's happening? Have you looked at this area?
Craig:
No, because it's more powerful. mean, one, you said you want to get to each kid and you were, mean, your proximity control is what it was, you know, you're working your way around the room. But also your wittiness, because you could be over in one spot and go, oh, that kid needs my help next. Like that ability to see what's going on everywhere. like, no, if we look at the questions, like, I'm going to my glasses on. Like you were saying as you, who's your audience? What do they like? What's going to get their attention? You tell me how do you feel because somebody was asking you what you thought and you like put it right back on them. Is this something that the company would sell? Consider your audience. What is the purpose? This was a little more artistic, but how might gravity affect this? That was that taller thing I remember. Yeah. Yeah, mean, that's everything you're asking is putting it back on them. Right. Talk to me about your belief about putting it on them versus you're telling them.
Emily:
A lot of times we as individuals are looking for the right answer. And I feel that in the arts, especially, it gives you space to explore and to fail, if you will, right? Like if you want to call it that. But that space to be like, OK, let's try this. Let's see what happens. And then being able to reflect as a student and be like, OK, where do I want this to go now? Okay, this happened. Now where do I want this to go? Do I want to change my idea or do I want to try to rein this piece back in and go back to my original concept? So that space for movement and exploration is really important.
Craig:
With the understanding that going and trying that thing and then going, oh, that didn't work is totally OK because you learned something from that. Whether that means I'm going to go back to the original way or even go find a new way that might get me to where I want to go as well. Like that's so much more powerful as learning to me than telling them, right? Because it's experiential. It's like a design piece when you when you do it versus and then. What if you told them and it didn't work right then they blame you instead of being which isn't like it's not about blame but it's like it's it's learning. It's having experience and learning from it. And I mean I still tend to learn mostly from the mistakes I make is my most powerful even at my age. Well I think it's super powerful when we do that and I just I applaud your use of coaching and putting it back on them. But it's also it's causing that higher level thinking as they're doing that. Right. And right or wrong. They're thinking so. So that's good. So you started out when you started talking about this as permission to fail. if we talk about trust based observations, I always say the goal of trust based observations is for whoever is observing to build enough trust so that we can come in and watch you trying something new. have it fail and not have you worried and have you know that we're going to say, I love it. You were taking a risk because then what will happen? You'll keep taking risks. And we always say when you do that, you will necessarily improve. And it feels like you're creating the same conditions for your students that really we're trying to do for teachers with TBO. So you've been teaching for 23 years at the John Cooper School. And you've probably had a bunch of different observations and styles of observations and ways of observations and probably had years where you weren't observed and yeah, all those things. And now you've experienced trust-based observations. I'm curious, like what you think about it and what do you want to talk about in comparison to other ways you've been observed in the past is up to you, but the floor is yours.
Emily:
Okay. It was by far one of the most supportive and uplifting experiences that I've had. It was nice to know that, um, that I was doing well, right? That,
Craig:
Cause we don't get our strengths shared with us very often.
Emily:
No, nor do we really see them. tend to be, I mean, I personally tend to be my own worst enemy sometimes. I'm like, well, that didn't work. Right. And I'm focusing on that part and how can I, how can I grow this or whatever, rather than like, Oh, that really worked or. Oh, I'm really doing this well. So it was really helpful and affirming to be like, OK, OK. All right, I'm doing well. then on the, since obviously 20 minutes is not a long amount of time. But having the resources that came with it as well when we did the review, because some things they didn't see while they were in the space, right? Like that were on the list.
Craig:
So I'm going to jump in, Emily. So when you say the resources for review, for those that don't know, on the observation form that we have, there's no rated pedagogy. But one of the things that we do have, we just have nine areas of pedagogy, is each one of the nine areas has a hyperlink to a new page that's a bunch of resources that could be action or resources. So that's what you're talking about just for the audience out there. OK, go ahead.
Emily:
No, that was by far one of the best things, especially for areas that weren't evident in the 20 minutes that they were in my space, it was nice to be like, oh, well, that is interesting. I would like to explore this aspect a little bit more so then I could go into these resources and find something that might be valuable that I can incorporate.
Craig:
So yeah, it gives you the ability to dig in right at your fingertips. And you can look at the form. We always say something not being filled isn't a negative. But sometimes you can look and you can go, oh, I didn't have a synthesized question. I should have a synthesized question. So then you can go look that up, even though we're not saying it's a bad thing. Or you might go, oh, I was only doing teacher formative assessment. Why didn't I have them use a rubric and assess each other's or whatever? And now I can go and look at that in a non-threatening way or in a way where it's maybe more traditionally. Emily, why aren't you doing that? I think you need to add that to your practice, right? which kind of...
Emily:
It definitely creates distance. It does create distance. way that people interact with each other and the formats create either distance or welcoming engagement. And trust-based observation definitely creates a welcoming space where you feel that you're supported and encouraged to grow as a teacher, which was really lovely.
Craig:
Which is exactly what we want teachers to do with students, which... that we've had 25 years of observing where really what we're doing is looking at what's wrong with your teaching and then telling you what to fix. Could you imagine what our kids would be like if for the last 25 years we're like, well, this is wrong, fix this. And then really not even give you support, just tell you to fix it. See, guiding you along the way. The hypocrisy of it all just astounds me and we're trying to change it. Emily, we might have people out there, I hope so, because they ought to reach out. They would be interested in learning from you, learning what you're doing to set up your class, learning what you're doing with feedback, learning the amazing stuff you're doing with the design project built into art, which they could use for any subject, frankly. So would you be okay with sharing a professional email that people could reach out to you if they were interested? Sure. Could you share that with them? Spell it out, please.
Emily:
Yes, it's etaylor, E-T-A-Y-L-O-R at johncooper, J-O-H-N-C-O-O-P-E-R dot org. O-R-G.
Craig:
Thank you very much. It was a pleasure being out there and watching you teach. The joy was so contagious. We couldn't stop talking about it after we left your room. And it was a pleasure to be able to come out and not come out, but chat again today. And hopefully I'll be out there again soon and get to watch you in action again.
Emily:
Sounds good, and thank you again.
Craig:
Thank you. Bye-bye.
Emily:
Bye-bye.
Craig:
Thank you for listening to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance. If the show resonated with you, you can help other teachers by liking, sharing, and subscribing. More importantly, if you don't like the way you're being evaluated, don't like being nitpicked and scored, then check out Trust-Based Observations at TrustBased.com, where we know the path to growth is through safe spaces for risk-taking. Tell your principal about it and change your school's observations to a model of trust and support and join the thousands of teachers who now experience the joy of observations the way they're meant to be done.