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This is your go-to podcast for all things marketing, branding, and customer experience. We’re bringing you honest and fun conversations with bite-sized insights. Hosted by BrightSign’s CMO Brian Rowley and Head of Integrated Marketing Laura Smith, you’ll hear from industry pros, creatives, and innovators about what’s actually working in today’s evolving, digital-first world. No fluff — just real insights on how brands are connecting with audiences and driving growth. Tune in for fresh ideas, big thinking, and all the tips you need to take your marketing game to the next level.
Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Brian
Brian Rowley:Rowley.
Laura Smith:And I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:And today we're talking about the concept that every brand says they're a storyteller, but somewhere along the way, I think storytelling has become marketing's favorite buzzword. It's up there with things like authenticity and innovative.
Brian Rowley:And I think sometimes to be honest, these buzzwords drive me crazy. If there's actually no substance behind them. And I don't think I'm alone. So I think today, what we wanted to do was sort of have a conversation around the concept of storytelling. And has it really been the marketing mantra for a decade?
Brian Rowley:But basically consumers don't just want stories, they actually wanna hear about experiences. Are brands telling too many stories or doing too little to tell them?
Laura Smith:So everyone thinks they're a storyteller. Right? And every brand's gonna say they're they're a storyteller because whenever that came out, I mean, ten years ago, whenever that was, when it actually became a thing. But I think what brands aren't doing, they can tell a story. Right?
Laura Smith:Anyone can tell a story. You can articulate something that can be you know, evoke emotion. But are they doing? Like, the story doing is where I think people are missing it because they're not putting that storytelling into action.
Brian Rowley:Well, I think they're all getting caught up though when the the story that they're telling is the story of their authenticity or their journey or why they're doing the things that they are. And I actually, I don't know that that's actually as much of a storytelling if it doesn't have substance behind how that's important to me or you as an end user. I think that's where some of the conflict comes in.
Laura Smith:Well, I think people just don't believe what people say anymore. Right? I mean, people aren't gonna believe what a brand just says. They have to demonstrate that how they bring that to life, or else they're not gonna engage with a brand. Because people see through the storytelling, I think, more so now, Any brand can say they're gonna stand for something, but if none of their actions actually demonstrate that, then the storytelling is not interesting to a consumer, I think.
Laura Smith:They just lose interest. So brands are held more accountable right now, I think, and they can't just sit in a storytelling world without actually taking action to demonstrate what their message is.
Brian Rowley:And I also think that they people are less interested in the story that you and I wanna tell. And I think it's more or less how does that relate to their story? How do they connect with what the story is that's being trying that people are trying to tell? I've said it for years, And I know you've even, you know, in prior roles working with me and sort of this comp, this specific topic, you know, it was, we've got to stop talking to our audiences the way that we wanna talk to them. And we need to talk in the way that they wanna be heard.
Brian Rowley:And and I think that's part of storytelling. I think that's where it starts to come in because I don't think it's authentic. And I think when you're only telling your story, the end result is nobody's listening.
Laura Smith:Yeah. And I think people are just there's so much content, you know, and consumers and audiences are just overloaded with content that I think that people are they're not gonna sit and listen to your story, but they will probably take note of an action or something that your brand's standing for. And I think that's where it's like, people's attention is just scarce. So we can't just focus on telling stories for story's sake. I think it need the brands need to really demonstrate and to the end consumer, like, what do they stand for, and is it something that they stand for as well?
Laura Smith:Because then they will make purchases associated with them because that's what they care about.
Brian Rowley:Do you think it's become a comfort zone for marketers, storytelling in general?
Laura Smith:I would say yeah. I think go back to your point about the the buzzwords. Right? I feel like that, you know, it's like authenticity. It's storytelling.
Laura Smith:They're all becoming the same, and that's where I think consumers are calling BS on it. You know, you can say you're authentic, but if you're really not authentic, you shouldn't have to say it. If if you really are authentic, you don't need to say it. But I think a lot of you know, that's probably a characteristic most most brands define themselves as. We're authentic.
Laura Smith:We're transparent. We're you know, and I think it's people can see through that so much more now, especially with the younger generations. They just they'll call BS on brands, and I think, yeah, storytelling to me is a throwaway. It well, first of all, every marketer and every brand has to be able to tell a story. So to me, it's table stakes, and it is about the story doing where a lot of brands do fall flat because they don't have enough, whether it's purpose or their mission is just not, you know, easily fulfilled upon or whatever that may be, but you don't see as many brands doing, but you hear a lot of brands telling.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I I would also say that some of the best brands don't actually tell stories, and I think this is what we're saying. I think they amplify the ones that their customers are telling and they tie it back to sort of what their brand is and how does that actually relate or how did a brand help this customer achieve that? I just feel like the story in itself would, in my mind, would not even be possible if it wasn't for some of the end users in the way in which people interact and engage with brands.
Laura Smith:Yes. I would agree. I would agree. And I think that, like, think about brands who do it really well. I think about, like, REI.
Laura Smith:Right? They close on Black Friday, you know, and that that's them demonstrating. Like, they can make a ton of money on sales that day, but they're actually they're opt they do the opt outside. You know, that's that's that's who their brand is, and they're gonna fulfill upon that regardless of what that revenue loss may be. And, honestly, I think their actual revenue increases every year because of that.
Laura Smith:But but it's just showing that they're they're doing something, and people wanna buy from them. You know, how much are they telling a story or how does their I think their brand that they're acting on their story. They're not telling it, and that goes to show, like, that's that's that's, you know, they're making they're taking a stance.
Brian Rowley:I I do think though, probably for our audience that is listening, I mean, we're we're referring to storytelling and story doing. I mean, define it just define it a little bit more for me because I do think it's a point of clarity because I don't know that everybody is necessarily on the same page as we are as it relates to this.
Laura Smith:Right. I think this is kind of a newer maybe term that people are using or maybe it's just, you know, I was newer than storytelling, but story doing means you're aligning your actions, experiences, and behaviors to demonstrate your narrative. Right? So it's it's basically acting on the story you're telling. So it's it's putting together the narrative as well as the actions or experiences that you're creating for a consumer.
Brian Rowley:And I think that's the part where marketing's role has evolved. Because when we say that storytelling has sort of become this mantra, I do think it is more in the past was focused on, again, telling whatever that company story is without thinking through the story doing side to it. And I do think that now, if there is a story to tell, I think a good marketing or a good marketing team is out there looking for the story doing element to it that actually supports it and helps bring it to life. So I do think that it has evolved, and I do think that that's an important element to it in terms of the progression in regards to storytelling.
Laura Smith:Brian, is the future of brand storytelling less about control and more about collaboration, you think?
Brian Rowley:Absolutely. I do think so. And I will say that I think a part of that that actually becomes and complicates that a little bit is through the introduction of AI. Because I do think that some of what we're seeing in sort of that next generation of storytellers is actually very heavily focused on sort of that algorithm theory and trying to figure out like, what are the ways that support this thought that I have? And I'm not I don't know your thoughts on this, but I'm not sure or convinced that AI can actually tell a story.
Brian Rowley:I know it can write one, but I'm not sure that it can tell one.
Laura Smith:I think it can. I think what consumers again, go back to the BS, you know, whatever. Like, people are gonna see through some of that, I think. But I believe that people will use AI to storytell, but that's where they can't use it to for the doing because it's not gonna create experiences for them.
Brian Rowley:Well, and I guess I'm not separating the two. So I this is kind of the difference between kind of where this topic and this is why this is I I find this topic to be really fascinating because I don't think you can talk about either of them independently. I think you do have to talk about them as a whole. So, yes, I agree with you. AI can write the words that you're saying, but it can't actually inflect sort of empathy or the things that create that human element to that storytelling that you're trying to create.
Brian Rowley:So that that would be the doing side to it. So I I I don't know that AI can do more than just create the foundation and the the the guidance, but I think anybody who tries to rely solely on AI for storytelling, I think is going to lose, to your point, that authenticity point.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I think so. But I think you can train AI to probably demonstrate empathy or to demonstrate other, like, emotions to try to draw out. I mean, I think yeah.
Laura Smith:I mean, AI is gonna play a role in it because I think for, like, I what's called, like, the lazy storyteller. Right? They're gonna use AI to help them, but really, it right. To your point, like, the authenticity piece isn't there, but I just think with models, you can just train them to be, you know, so smart that I I don't know if every consumer would would, you know, be able to call BS on some of what's created out of AI. I just think it's it's it truly is the doing part that it can't do, and that's where, for our discussion, where brands are shifting anyway.
Laura Smith:It's less about that storytelling and more about the doing. So I think with that, AI's role will look different. Right?
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I mean, I I yes. But I I do think the potential risk is that in that automation element, I do think it just as we've said process, like, you know, we've had many conversations on here. We've talked about process is one thing that can kill creativity. I think automation can kill creativity.
Brian Rowley:I think if people's first reaction is to go out and just look to AI to figure out how to solve for every problem that they have, I think we're not challenging ourselves enough to be as creative as we are. And I think some of that creativity actually helps elevate that human connection. And I think that's going to be an important piece. And you know me, I'm a huge proponent of AI, but it also has a purpose and a place. And I think that when we try to inject it into everything, and don't think of some of the consequences like this, then I do think it can pose to be somewhat problematic, especially for new people that are starting out.
Laura Smith:Yeah. But go back to something that we talked about a little bit a little bit ago where I asked you the question about is it, you know, we losing control because of collab you know, in basically fueling with collaboration. And I think that something that brands are now open to and they're doing a job of is letting consumers help tell their story.
Brian Rowley:Agreed.
Laura Smith:Right? So, like, that, like, collaboration with the people that are, you know, the fans of your brand. Don't feel like the brand has to tell the story. Like, let them in to help you create that story. That's where I think the evolution is going.
Laura Smith:So it it kind of like it and I wouldn't you know, it's it's because people always say, like, they don't people don't trust the brand. They're gonna trust other people that tell them like, that give them recommendations or whatever because I think brands usually are you know, just aren't being honest or truly authentic. So I think if brands help let their customers or consumers help shape their story and actually, like, act on their story, I think that's where they're gonna see a bit of that evolution in the success. Because then you're not just relying on yourself, and maybe you don't even need AI in that in that example because you're allowing other people to help you create your story in your narrative.
Brian Rowley:Well, and is that happening? I mean, I but I think, again, I think that goes back to having that happen organically. And I and I think having marketers who look at that let's go back to you and I were at a conference a month ago. Mhmm. And some of the best creative that we saw was from a company that allowed their end users to tell that story.
Brian Rowley:And we it was really amazing, to be honest, like, both sat there and we're like, that's really cool. And it wasn't just about capturing like a case study. They actually built entire campaigns and brand campaigns around their customers and because their customers had something to say. So again, I go back to, would you be able to pull that out of an AI model or is that what we want our marketing teams to be sorting through at this point and really thinking through how impactful that is? Because for us, it was incredibly impactful.
Brian Rowley:We saw both examples, right, of just a standard brand campaign, and then we saw this one where the, you know, their customers were telling it and it was incredibly powerful to see that come to life.
Laura Smith:Right. Because I think that that's where the insights live. Right? I mean, it's a very insight driven campaign, and the insights live with the they're they're fanatics, people who love the brand. I mean, it's a big, you know, brand, but they have they don't need to be able to go gather other, like, research or insights.
Laura Smith:It's like they're they're hearing it from their customers. And so, yes, that just that felt very authentic. It obviously tapped into a lot of, you know, like, new audiences even or inspired because they saw sales increase from something like that, which and again, there was some creativity put behind it from, like, the brand side. Right? I mean, there's definitely, like, a concept and a creative kind of idea, but then brought to life by their audience, which was not a lot of brands can do it, to be honest.
Laura Smith:Right. You know? To get to their customer, understand their customer that deeply, but that was a great that's a great example of storytelling and story doing because they they really lived it.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. And I I'm gonna off my AI soapbox here in a second with this one because I do think the other thing, though, that's important for people to realize is I mean, AI is just a model. Right? So it's gathering information. And if and if everybody starts using that same model for the purpose of doing exactly this telling stories, these stories are all going to start to sound a lot alike.
Brian Rowley:So I do think that you need to get in there and I do think you need to understand its impact, how you pull a human element into it. And again, go back to using it as a baseline, but not as sort of the complete narrative that you have, I think is incredibly important. Yep. Go back for one second. You talked about lazy storytelling.
Brian Rowley:When you say lazy storytelling, what do you equate to that? Because I think it's an interesting point, and I think it's one that I think needs us to dig a little bit further.
Laura Smith:Yeah. I mean, I think when I think of that, I think it it's when someone when a brand tells a story or what their narrative is, but they're not fulfilling on it. So you can say what you stand for. You can say, you know, like, whatever, like, deals or if you're donating to certain costs. Like, you can say all those things, but, like, unless it feels like that's authentic to the brand and it, like, you know, brand's actually living it and people are seeing you do those things, then I feel like it's lazy because because it's just words, technically.
Laura Smith:You know? Like, it's words on paper. I think we can all create a fascinating story. You know? Truly.
Laura Smith:I think people creative people can create stories, but if you're not living that story, like, through and acting on it, then I think it's just words for word's sake. So I would call that, like, lazy storytelling. It's like anyone can write a story, but can anyone, like, act on it and live it and create experiences that fulfill on it? I don't think so.
Brian Rowley:Do you think more people are are currently lazy storytelling than actually storytelling?
Laura Smith:Because how many brands do we really feel like? We could probably name five that we feel like do a really good job of, like, living and breathing their their brand essence, if you will. Right?
Brian Rowley:In every place they show up.
Laura Smith:Yes. Exactly. It's you know who they are and what they stand for just by just by engaging with them.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Yeah. I don't think storytelling is dead. I definitely think it's evolved. I think I think to your point, I think we have to challenge and I think we are challenged every single day by people who engage with the brand so that we're not lazy storytelling, because I think if you are throwing just words out there, we say this all the time, someone will bring that to your attention.
Brian Rowley:You will have to respond to that because there is a lack of tolerance for that as there should be, right? You should be held accountable to what you have. But I think evolving it to the point of, you know, looking at it from the, is everything that we're saying, can we back that? And should you be able to back that with a doing example? I think is a goal that everyone should strive for.
Brian Rowley:I don't think you should put stuff out there unless you actually can support that.
Laura Smith:Yeah. And I'd also say, like, let your customers help tell your story. I think that's the other evolution piece, right, is bringing in the audiences and don't just let it sit with the marketers because I think that's where you can get truly you know, they're they experience your brand every day potentially. So how do what do they have to say about it? Like, what make what emotions come out when they engage with your brands?
Laura Smith:Like, I think getting bringing them into that circle of creating the story is not always easy, but I think that's where you're gonna get the best story because you can we always say it. Like, we talk to ourselves. We talk to ourselves. You know? Are we really talking about the brand in a way that people outside of this, you know, our four walls experience it, and we don't always do that as marketers.
Laura Smith:So I think it it is that I think that evolution of bringing in the audience into helping tell that story is one that probably makes some brands uncomfortable, but it's gonna be where better stories are are being told.
Brian Rowley:Or just be aware of the way in which people are actually supportive of your story and and the way that that comes to life and and pulling that to life. I don't know that I think sometimes in this conversation, people feel like, oh, I have to go out and I have to get, like, customer case studies or I have to do all of that. I don't think that's exactly what we're saying here. I think we that that is one element to it. But the other element to it is is just being aware of who your customers are, who your audiences are, and knowing when it's appropriate to elevate their story because it does actually support the bigger brand story that you have.
Laura Smith:Right. And I think we've talked about this before. One of your favorite favorite lines or Bobisms, but feedback is a gift. And I think sometimes when you have customers who are providing feedback or input, it's like, how do you how do people what do people do with that? And I think really understanding where, like, pitfalls may be or where great experiences are.
Laura Smith:Like, I I think that's where I don't think brands welcome in that feedback as I mean, not I mean, you can't say all brands because many brands do, but I think that's where like, let the guard down, be vulnerable, and take in some of that feedback to understand the whys, the hows, the when people are basically engaging with your product or service or whatever that may be, because then it can help craft the story you're telling if you're getting consistent feedback, for example.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. So I guess coming out of this, my rap is maybe it isn't dying. It's just shifting. And it's moving from that marketer over to actually the customer and what the customer is doing.
Laura Smith:Yep. It's an evolution of storytelling. So it's not right. It's not dead. It's still a buzzword, but I I do like the perspective of story doing because it it really I mean, it says what it is.
Laura Smith:Right? It's it's putting into action. So I think that's how brands should shift. And to your point, bringing in others to help create the story and the experiences.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. 100% agree. Thanks for listening. And most importantly, if you like what you heard today, be sure to follow us.