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Super Fan Rachel and First Time Watcher Matt make their way episode by episode through the groundbreaking 1990's Canadian vampire cop television show, Forever Knight.
Hi. I'm Rachel.
Matt:And I'm Matt.
John Kapelos:Hi. I'm John.
Rachewl:And this is Come in 81 kilo.
Matt:A forever night podcast.
Rachewl:Sorry. We we wrapped up coming 81 kilo in, like, February, so we haven't we're out of practice.
John Kapelos:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachewl:Yeah. We did every single episode. We ran out, unfortunately. They stopped making them. I don't know if you knew that.
John Kapelos:They stopped making what?
Rachewl:Forever forever night episodes. We got to 70 something, and they just
John Kapelos:they just stop making them. I never
Rachewl:even knew that. Alright. So, I pulled our Discord and got some questions for you, and then we have some questions, and then just feel free to talk about whatever you want to too. But, how did you get your start in acting? Like, where did you start?
John Kapelos:I started in, my hometown of London, Ontario. I did a play when I was a kid. I mean, a little boy when I was in public school, and I loved doing that. And then when I got into high school, I auditioned for the school play and got Guys and Dolls. And it was it's so cliched, but I look back on it.
John Kapelos:I got bitten by the showbiz bug, and I really after that, it's like, wow. I really enjoyed acting. I got out of class. I got a lot of attention. The school show went well.
John Kapelos:We did Guys and Dolls. I was the lead. And then then I went into university, and I pretended to be an English major for a couple of years. I have a journalism major, then an English major. Then I went into film and theater, and they went, oh, man.
John Kapelos:I would
Matt:turn it back.
John Kapelos:And and then, I left university and took sort of a little bit of time off, like about 7, 8 months, and sort of had a a little bit of, sort of a thing with my father and my parents, sort of didn't talk to them for a few months. And then we had a. And I went to Toronto and got, involved with Second City in the workshops. And, I got my tie caught on the Second City, wagon, and I auditioned for Second City in Chicago, and I got a job. And I kept that job, and I never looked back.
John Kapelos:That's kind of the I mean, but I started I started in London, Ontario and, in in drama class in in in, high school and public school.
Rachewl:Yeah. So I
John Kapelos:answer. Right? Too probably too long.
Rachewl:No. No. That was good. No. We like long x answers.
Rachewl:But you answered my next question, which was, did you always wanna be an actor?
John Kapelos:But Well, my my parents said I wanted to be an actor. And, my family sort of re reinforced the notion that I was a bit of a clown and performer. But, I was the youngest child. And in a lot of ways, there's a sort of a classic thing about youngest children. I mean, apparently, Robin Williams and Billy Crystal, a lot of people were youngest children.
John Kapelos:I don't know whether Garrett, Wendy's. I don't think Garrett is I think, you know, he's a son of a preacher, so that's a whole different category.
Rachewl:Yeah. You know what's funny? I actually don't know if he has siblings or not. I have an entire podcast about him, and I have no idea.
John Kapelos:You don't know whether he has siblings, and I worked with him. And I don't think he does have siblings.
Rachewl:I I know his parents are still alive, but
John Kapelos:To this day?
Rachewl:Yes. Yeah. Wow. I know. Meg, my cohost for the podcast specifically about Gare, was telling me, and I was like, for real?
Rachewl:Like, still alive? That's crazy. I think they're in
John Kapelos:the nineties. Say really, really lovely, lovely parents. My goodness. I mean, salt of the earth, his father. I I remember his father particularly.
John Kapelos:His mother is lovely, but I remember his father because his father, I'm I talked to him at a bit more than his his mom.
Rachewl:Did they come visit the set when you would film me? Oh, neat.
John Kapelos:His dad came by and, just a lovely man and and, with a very beautiful Welsh sort of brogue. Yeah. That's
Rachewl:it. We, anyway, we have a we have another podcast called Gare Can Get It, and it's just a funny, like, exploration of his filmography because it's so wide and varied. And we talk about his accent quite a bit, and, that's why we laughed right there because he doesn't have a specific Welsh accent, but he has a very, like, Gare way of speaking, like clues. We love clues. Everything is a clue.
John Kapelos:Clues.
Rachewl:Clue.
John Kapelos:Yeah. Yeah. Well, we we we we had a different cadence on, forever night. I mean, I sort of employed my Chicago accent as skanky, but that's I mean, III didn't want to sound Canadian Yeah. In any way, shape, or form, which I am by birth.
John Kapelos:But I sort of not as Canadian accent sounding as I once was when I was before I left Canada.
Rachewl:So do you have a favorite type of character to play?
John Kapelos:It's a really good question. I like playing glib characters. You know? I like playing playing characters that have a sort of verbal dexterity and that enjoy that are, smart. I mean, I I think most of the characters I play have a level of intelligence.
John Kapelos:I don't really play dumb or, uninformed guys that much. I don't find them that interesting. You know, I mean, classic answer would be, you know, what what's my favorite character play? Is it the next 1?
Rachewl:Yeah. But,
John Kapelos:that's a really good question. I like playing people with a good verbal dexterity and that don't suffer fools lightly. That's probably
Matt:Yeah. Yeah. And I think that comes across in your roles.
John Kapelos:You probably will. In reality, so we can certain ways.
Rachewl:So how did you become involved with Nick Knight, the pilot movie?
John Kapelos:That was a really circuitous story. I had a deal, as a writer, producer, and actor at what was then known as New World Entertainment. Not an office over there on Sepulveda here in LA. And I was developing a show there that went to NBC productions, called Monterey Jack. And, New World actually claimed ownership to it, and then New World became Columbia Pictures Television.
John Kapelos:And there was a lot of sort of back and forth. My show, Monterey Jack, went to pilot at NBC, and then it fell apart. And then New World, which was now Columbia Pictures Television, had this show called Forever Night or, actually, excuse me, Nick Knight. And they had a director attached named a man named Farhad Mann, and they had, Rick Springfield. Yeah.
John Kapelos:And, they asked me to come aboard with that. And that was that came through my association, as I said, with Columbia Pictures Television, formerly New World. And, there's a lot more to the story in terms of my relationship with Columbia Pictures Television and and the the powers that be there. And they weren't, because of we had a little bit of a difficulty with my project over at NBC. They claimed ownership, and we had a little bit of a tug of war, and they lost.
John Kapelos:So when I went over to Colombia to do, Forever Night or at least Knick Knick, I wasn't exactly greeted with open arms, but they wanted me to do the show. We did the pilot in LA with Rick here and Farhad. And and then we repeated the whole script.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:The whole thing we shot again in in Toronto.
Rachewl:Yeah. But as a 2 part.
John Kapelos:But that's how I got involved. I mean, it was circuitous and long, and, they wanted me through for it. And then I was disappointed when it didn't go didn't go here. And then when it got picked up in Toronto, I naturally, they expressed interest. And because I'm a dual citizen, I think they were interested.
Rachewl:Nice.
Matt:Did you have to reaudition for the No. Toronto?
John Kapelos:No. I I physically I physically looked different when I went up to Canada because I'd put on a few poundages from the the original pilot, and I kept them on throughout most of forever night. But, and then, you know, then I grew the sideburns, and I did all that stuff.
Rachewl:That's actually a question for later. What was it like working with Rick Springfield?
John Kapelos:I mean, Rick's a good guy. You know, I wouldn't say he's a ground shaking actor. It was more more fun and challenging working with Gare because Gare is a real thespian. Mhmm. Rick had a sort of a very, you know, laid back approach to to it.
John Kapelos:And, I really enjoyed working with him. Although, you know, I don't think it was long enough, and and, I don't know whether he was entirely into it. But, you know, it's it's it's tough to gauge with certain people people that are I would say that come out of the the the the music world because they're not really playing anything else other than sort of them of sort of a large group of themselves.
Matt:Yeah.
John Kapelos:So I wouldn't say he was putting on a character. And that's no flies. That's no flies on him. But he wasn't, I would say I mean, you know, he was acting, but I wouldn't say he was, you know, a great actor.
Rachewl:Yeah. But
John Kapelos:he's, you know, serviceable in the part. But I think that us that also had something to do with why it didn't go.
Rachewl:I mean, I think the Rick Springfield star effect sort of overshadowed. I've always felt like it overshadows Nick Knight a little bit. Like, oh, it's Rick Springfield in this movie instead of like, oh, it's this movie. Oh, look. It has Rick Springfield in it.
John Kapelos:Listen. I there's a term for what they what that's called in in in Hollywood, and it's called stunt casting. It's when you when you put in, like, you know I don't know whether you guys remember Joey Buttafuoco, but, you know, the the Long Island Lolita, you know, he ended up shooting, you know, and he became this guy. And then all of a sudden, 1 day, I'm reading for a sitcom, and they you know, this is many years ago. And it's like it's like between you and Adolf Hitler.
John Kapelos:It's like, really? You know? Or it's between you and Joey Buttafuto because these people, it's stunt casting. They bring them in. The Adolf Hitler thing is a joke and probably not that funny.
John Kapelos:But the the whole notion is that they they bring in people from the real world. And, you know, sometimes it's because of infamous reasons. Right? So I'll never forget reading for the sitcom. They go, oh, it's between you and Joey Buttafuoco.
John Kapelos:And I'm like, really? And I didn't get it.
Rachewl:So the character of Skanky is quite a bit different between the movie and the Canadian plot pilot. Was that intentional, or did that just different director, different You're talking about to play with?
John Kapelos:From from Rick Springfield to Forever Knight?
Rachewl:Yeah. Because in Nick Knight, Skanky is a much more, like, a harder, more sarcastic character. And then when we get to the dark knight part 1 and 2, we get more of the, like, skanky skanky. So I wasn't sure if that was just you had different actors to play with, and so it came off a little bit different, or was that intentional?
John Kapelos:It's interesting. I think, it wasn't I wouldn't say I mean, it was it was there was a deliberateness to it. I knew that it was happening. I played it differently. But, the way I work is not entirely it wasn't like, oh, okay.
John Kapelos:This is what I'm gonna do. It's intentional. It it also had to do with the dynamic and the way that the the guys wrote the show in in Toronto and the way Garratt was and the way the the backstory was. I it came to pass when I started doing more of it, the episodes. And and I've said this in the past, but it it it it bears repeating that the skanky represented the audience in a lot of ways.
John Kapelos:Mhmm. And it it it also there was a such a seriousness to the backstory and the sort of the way they played it. And that the John Kapalas, the actor thought that it would be best if Skanky was a little bit of funnier because it would provide a counterpoint to that sort of seriousness. Yeah. And and also provide something for the audience to go, like, WTF, why aren't you drinking or eating anything?
John Kapelos:I mean, all I see you have is wine and stuff like that. And and and I think that that was an important touchstone for the the show. And and also the dynamic of Gerhardt and the sort of, ornate Shakespearean aspect to his his acting and the sort of backstory, you know, the his character. You know? Yeah.
John Kapelos:The fact that he was this guy that lived for centuries. I have this sort of noble, you know, you know, way of being, you know, carriage. So I thought that the best way to me for me to anchor Skanky was to put him totally in the 20th century then. And in in the here and now and sort of midwestern American sort of skank sort of really with a wife and, you know, family and the sort of the whole earthbound catastrophe. And and and have him you know?
John Kapelos:And and that that and and and and the and I think it became a little bit more, I would lay on that a little bit more, the more comfortable I got with the character. And also the more I could play off of Gare because I always found the whole Nigel Gare, you know, all that stuff really kind of worthy of poking fun at.
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah.
John Kapelos:You know, but in my own but in my own way, you know?
Matt:Yeah. Yeah. Forever Knight Skanky is a lot more, I guess, wholesome family man being funny versus the more cynical, like, career oriented skanky from Nick Knight.
John Kapelos:Yeah. Well Yeah. And, you know, I mean, it's funny that you should mention that because we never really, really as you know, we didn't go on the road with Nick Knight. We went on the road with Forever Knight. And, I have no idea of knowing how that skanky would have changed.
John Kapelos:But I do know that the the the, there was there was a different, sort of orientation. And when we went to, you know, also the networks affect things, obviously. Yeah. You know, we'll jump ahead to the 3rd season that I wasn't in because, they had a network change and the network had a different mandate. They wanted to go with a a female captain, etcetera.
John Kapelos:I mean, a female partner.
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a later question. Did they let you Adlib?
John Kapelos:Oh, yeah.
Rachewl:Or did you yeah.
John Kapelos:Well, I mean, I don't know whether they let me. I did it, and I think I did. Yeah. You know? You know, I I think as an older actor, I I've come to look at guys like myself younger and sort of go, oh, gosh.
John Kapelos:You know? When are they gonna just do the script? But, I kind of I think that it was important for me to do what I did and to change things because it also was my way of, marking my territory.
Rachewl:Yeah. I mean, that's yeah.
John Kapelos:You know? And and also, I I had, I had a I had a sort of a, tug of war going on with the people in LA, the executives.
Rachewl:During the whole thing?
John Kapelos:Pretty much. There was, you know, I I had to negotiate to write and direct an episode, and, you know, I ran up against a couple of walls for, you know, there's a lot of prejudice against actors who wanna do other things. Mhmm. And the Directors Guild of Canada said, to me, you know, we don't like actors becoming directors. And I I couldn't believe the temerity of that statement.
John Kapelos:And I said, well, if not us, who? And shouldn't we be on the top 10? And, they were really you know? And I said, if you wanna call the director's club of Canada, you should. But in the United States, if I got you know?
John Kapelos:So they were not gonna allow me to direct. I basically, Columbia and CBS and everybody went bad for me on that. But, you know, it's just like, it it was just it was always a a little bit of a grudge match, you know, to get me to do things. And, to being a returning Canadian coming back to to Canada, there was a lot of weirdness on that 1 too. But, you know
Rachewl:Was Columbia involved the entire time? Because I know Paragon was. Was Columbia the US
John Kapelos:Columbia is the US entity. Yeah.
Rachewl:Oh, okay.
John Kapelos:And and, yeah, Columbia, Sony, they had a lot to do with it. And then there was a German entity. I mean, I don't know whether you've heard this from other actors, but they wanted to do the the the German shows were a little bit longer. Do you are you not Yeah.
Rachewl:Knowledgeable about this?
Matt:The Euro minutes?
John Kapelos:Yeah.
Rachewl:They Yeah.
John Kapelos:And they also like to have topless ladies in it. Right? Yeah. So we do we do a scene in a bar. Right?
John Kapelos:And or just in some gratuitous location, and they say, okay. We're gonna do the German version. And all of a sudden, the women around us would take off their tops. I'm like, well, wait a minute. We'd we'd be in a restaurant.
John Kapelos:We'd be in a restaurant scene, and all of a sudden there'd be topless women in it. It's like, wait a minute. Is this a topless restaurant? I mean, it would be it would be I mean, it was distracting.
Rachewl:Yeah. I'm sure. Imagine.
John Kapelos:And, you know, you had to be on your you know, mind your p's and q's, which I do and did, and of course, and, you know, just like, wow. But, you know, that's another story.
Rachewl:Yeah. Oh, the German version just came out on DVD, in fact. So you can now purchase the German versions, on DVD in Germany, but you can't purchase forever night on DVD easily in the US, which I think is interesting. So now I can buy the German version and see the difference in the restaurant scenes, I guess.
John Kapelos:But the thing is if you buy the German version, is it gonna be a a European DVD that you can't play on a North America?
Rachewl:You can you can buy jailbroken DVD players where people have, made it possible. It's what it's called where you take off the,
Matt:The copyright
Rachewl:the copyright protection.
Matt:I'm a tech guy. I have ways.
John Kapelos:Steel broken. I've never heard that, fear of some
Rachewl:Technically, all region all region DVD players, if you wanna be real PC. So my next question was, were those your real sideburns? And since you have sideburns right now, I'm guessing yes.
John Kapelos:God, yes. They're my real sideburn.
Rachewl:Did you
John Kapelos:choose the Fabrics? You missed it. I had I had flaming long ones. I looked sort of like, you know, 1 of, some old rock star, but now
Rachewl:that Yeah.
John Kapelos:Nothing comes out. Yeah. They were mine. And they they get they I think they ticked off Gary a lot. Because he's not doesn't mean he kept on going, why are you growing these?
John Kapelos:And the more and the more Elvis y they grew, the more I dug it. And, you know, I just did it.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:And it it was, I think it was a kind of a cool thing to do.
Rachewl:Yep. In fact, in the podcast, we have the skanky sideburn index because some of the episodes are aired out of order, so your sideburns will change, length. And so I'm like I'm like, oh, okay. So this is an an older episode, and they aired it out because we can tell by the skanky sideburn index that it's slightly newer.
John Kapelos:Well, you know, I just I love I love that. I really, really love that.
Rachewl:So, we noticed they were appreciated. Because I think it's, like, 196 6, which is you don't have to remember the titles. I will. It's the 1 that's mostly flashback, and it's, like, kind of in the elevator episode where Skanky's just hiding under a desk the entire episode. And you have
John Kapelos:was fun. That was an easy 1 to shoot.
Rachewl:You have quite large sideburns in that 1. And then I think in the next 1, they're almost gone. And so, our our our postulation was that 1 was filmed earlier and aired later because you definitely have a different style.
John Kapelos:Sideburn, continuity sometimes was off.
Rachewl:That's okay. Also, Gare's hair length because we guess he gets a haircut at the beginning of the season and then didn't until, like, the beginning of the next season because it would always get longer. So here's a question. Did they always intend to never have a Myra or Jenny cast, or was that because you have a wife and child in the show, but we never ever see them.
John Kapelos:I think they were always intended to be off screen characters.
Rachewl:Yeah. I mean, it's such an interesting choice because there are moments where you are theoretically going to interact with them, and it'd be like, oh, here's Jenny's entire class, but Jenny's out with measles. And so they had to really rearrange lots of stuff to keep them out, which I was that was interesting.
John Kapelos:I think there's a there are a variety of reasons that there weren't at Myra and Jenny. 1 of them was probably budgetary. Yeah.
Rachewl:I'll go figure. Did Skanky know? Did Skanky know? I know you don't have to answer that. Do you think Skanky knew?
John Kapelos:That he was a vampire?
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:No.
Rachewl:No? I mean I mean,
John Kapelos:that's a 4th wall for Skanky. You know the 4th wall. Right?
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.
John Kapelos:I mean, I'm I'm not not that I'm condescending, but I mean, the notion of the I mean, for Skanky, because of just using that as a metaphor, like, for him not to believe that. To frame to to to to think that that Nick was a vampire would blow his effing mind.
Rachewl:Yeah. It's okay. We curse on this show.
Matt:We had a lot of speculation about whether Skanky knew his side his partner was some kind of supernatural creature Yeah. And depended on that. But
John Kapelos:I mean, you know, no. I mean, if if we had more if if I had more episodes and we, you know, we'd stretched into it I mean, the the the the the episode I did with Nigel where he, you know, that, you know, in his radio in
Rachewl:his Yeah. The close call.
John Kapelos:That's the 1 reason. That episode. And I love the whole, you know, who the fuck are these guys sort of thing.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:You know? I think walking up to the line, but for me to skate over it and to see it, unless they take my memory away and then bring me back. Right? You know?
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah. Which I think happens in that episode.
John Kapelos:That's right.
Rachewl:Yeah. Because we chat about it quite a bit on the show in that maybe Skanky doesn't know he's a vampire, but he's aware something is going on because it feels like it makes the Skanky character more interesting. If he's if he, like, knows something is weird, but he's like, but I don't care. Like, I just like Nick.
John Kapelos:Well, I I think there's a lot of that. I mean, I think there's a lot of, like, you know, is he, you know, what's his deal, you know, with women, with his nightlife, with his diet, you know, all that stuff. But I don't think that he's, you know, yeah, I'll just let it rely at that. Let you guys enjoy the tough stuff. I can
Rachewl:I mean
John Kapelos:I can I can project mystification?
Rachewl:Oh, okay. Good. Good. You're like, I don't know. It's a mystery.
Rachewl:That's fine. It can stay a mystery. Do you have any funny stories from the set?
John Kapelos:There was 1 time when my mother came on the set, and, in the middle of a take, she interrupted the scene with Gary and myself. And I thought that she'd lost it. I mean, not that my mother was but I she went she went, John, what's going on here? What are you doing? Why and and III really, for a moment, thought, you know, mom, I'm I'm yeah.
John Kapelos:I'm working. I'm working.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:And everybody laughed. I've got the video of it. And, I've got it somewhere in my files. I mean, I and and I can I'll definitely share it with you at some point if you wish.
Rachewl:Oh, I will. We will take it. We will borrow and return it.
John Kapelos:I beg your pardon?
Rachewl:I said we will borrow and return it.
John Kapelos:Well, I said I can send you the file. It's it's it's and I gotta say that was a really wonderful moment. I mean, we worked so many deep nights. You know, we'd shoot from 4 or 5 in the afternoon till 6, 7, 8, 9 in the morning. And, like, you know, I wish they I I I've often said this.
John Kapelos:I wish they burnished the time in the corner, like, what time in the morning we shot this. Because sometimes I have to do these, like, incredibly long sort of speeches or whatever. We'd have to do these action things. And it's 4:30 in the morning, 4:45. I mean, you know, in the middle in the middle of a cold, cold Toronto, you know Yeah.
John Kapelos:Yeah. But, there were I mean, I did 48 episodes. I directed, 1 episode with with Geraint and and Nigel, and I had so much fun directing that episode. I mean, I think, initially, when I first was a lot of fun because and and also John Kassar Mhmm. Who was our camera guy, you know, went on to do great things.
John Kapelos:Any great stories? That's about it. I mean, I, you know, I could probably dig up 1 or 2, but let me think for a second. More questions.
Rachewl:Okay. Okay. So my next one's actually you keep answering my next question, which was you mentioned your mom came to the set, so we already answered that 1. And then you actually wrote the code and directed A More Permanent Hell. So what was that like?
Rachewl:Like, writing and then you didn't direct the episode that you wrote, but you directed an episode you didn't
John Kapelos:write. What's his name? Clay Borris directed the 1 I wrote. Right? I think he directed the code.
John Kapelos:Michael Levine, what did he direct? I mean, partners of the month. That was written by Shelley Goldstein, and she was my girlfriend at the time. Okay. The the, more permanent hell was the 1 I directed.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:And it's like, you know, come on. They said, you've got the destruction of Pompeii and you've got, like, 10 setups to do it. Now 10 I don't know whether you know what setups are, but setups are basically camera setups. You put the camera over here, and the action happens. Then you put the camera over here and over here.
John Kapelos:So I can do that 10 times to cover the destruction of Pompeii. Are you kidding?
Rachewl:That's fine.
John Kapelos:I'm gonna need a few more setups in that. In addition to that, it's like they they were kind of, daring me to direct the episode. And I've been preparing to direct something like this for a long time. And, you know, the whole notion of having a, statue of Nigel in that episode Yeah. That gets destroyed.
John Kapelos:That was my idea. That wasn't in the script because I said, I wanna see a physical destruction of this guy that never really happens in reality. But in Right.
Matt:Right.
John Kapelos:In physical reality, when when the earth comes plundering down on him and, you
Matt:know Symblism.
John Kapelos:You know, I want I want to see him destroyed that way so he can see sort of my mortality mortal. I'd still like to be mortal. You know, all that sort of stuff. And the girl that played, Divinia, was it character's name?
Rachewl:Divya. Yeah.
John Kapelos:Divya. Divya. Divya. Divya. Divya.
Rachewl:Right? Yes.
John Kapelos:Yeah. What an extraordinarily weird, little. She's grown up now. I'm sure much older, much older. But, an odd I mean, really, she was perfect.
John Kapelos:She was perfect. Casting was great. Now we had a very funny thing happen when we shot the destruction of Pompeii. We had to had to jigger the whole set, and this whole thing had to shake and all this smoke
Rachewl:and all
John Kapelos:the and we had the camera back here, and we had the whole set destroyed and fell apart. Boom. That was the last last thing we did with that set was to destroy it. Mhmm. And, I'm I'm directing no.
John Kapelos:I think I'm acting in another episode, an episode later. And they're editing the episode that I directed, you know, putting it together. And I get a tap on my shoulder and I think, John, you gotta come to the editing room. We got a problem. I said, oh, no.
John Kapelos:So I go to the editing room, and we'd I I think we just shot the episode or when whenever it is. It may be working the next episode. And they show me the the footage of the set being destroyed and all the smoke and everything falling apart and Nigel statue falling and all that stuff. And the guy I said, it looks great. It looks great.
John Kapelos:It looks great. He goes, yeah. Yeah. Take a look over here. I said, okay.
John Kapelos:Takes a look over here. And in the dust and everything, you see a crew guy sitting there sitting there and all of a sudden looking up and realizing the camera's on him, and he crawls off. Now it's all done with dust and everything. So you can barely see it, but it's happening right there or there or wherever. And I went, holy shit.
John Kapelos:No. And he went, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can you believe it?
John Kapelos:And I said, well, we can't you know, he said, what can we do? Well, they went in and they digitally removed it. Now this is, you know, not today, and we're not working with a present camera I mean, computers and stuff. But they managed to do that. They managed to digi, you know, fudge it.
John Kapelos:That was a funny experience of directing that episode. There was also another thing that happened. Nigel and Gary wouldn't love to hear this, but there was 1 day when I was directing an episode that the guys wouldn't come out of their trailers after lunch. Because they were a little bit ticked off as to the way I directed the scene before lunch. I said, really?
John Kapelos:I said, yeah. They're they're and I said, come on. They're acting like actors, and they're fucking the directors. You know, I have to you have to shoot a certain certain number of pages during the day. And and and and I that was the 1 time the whole 48 episodes that I was on the other side of the thing, and I said, get them out of their trailers and tell them to get working.
John Kapelos:You know, I'm not gonna tolerate this. Yeah. And they they were serious. They both of them were playing a little hissy fit on me. And, like, you know, you know, it was it was uncalled for.
John Kapelos:But it happened. Mean, it
Rachewl:it was an episode about a meteor that was gonna hit the earth, so it's fine. It wasn't Shakespeare. Yeah. I mean, it was a good
John Kapelos:They were both stretching their they were both stretching their acting egos a little bit.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:There was a scene that we had shot that morning that under the stairs were, like, Nigel appears here and there.
Rachewl:Yeah. Mhmm.
John Kapelos:They didn't like the way I shot it, but it really, really worked out.
Rachewl:It did. Oh, that's a good scene.
Matt:Oh, yeah.
Rachewl:Yeah. That's the okay. Sorry. I won't and I remember the episodes better than you. That's fine.
Rachewl:But, you
John Kapelos:know, boys will be boys.
Rachewl:Yeah. They just had a And
John Kapelos:and I was the man that day. So
Matt:The man.
Rachewl:The man. So you wrote The Code. Is that the only episode you've ever written, or had you have other writing credits?
John Kapelos:That's the only episode of, that TV show I've written. Yeah. There are other episodes of TV, but nothing has been produced. I've written a couple of short short films, and I've got a feature film. But, nope.
John Kapelos:I'm, unproduced writer in that regard.
Rachewl:Well, you're a successful actor, so it balances out. Do you have any props from the show? Did you keep anything?
Matt:We won't snitch on you.
John Kapelos:No. No. I'd
Rachewl:It's been too long. It's fine. No 1 cares.
John Kapelos:No. I don't.
Rachewl:No? No.
John Kapelos:I have I have props from a few other films. I have something from The Breakfast Club. I mean, I have a piece of wardrobe from The Breakfast Club, and I have something from Roxanne, but no. Not from Forever Night.
Rachewl:Not even a
John Kapelos:doctor. I mean, I'm thinking out loud. I mean, I have recordings. I did some music on the set with a couple of the people, and I have, as I said, I have that outtake. And, I have pictures that I took and some stuff in my own memorabilia.
John Kapelos:But, you know
Rachewl:Not even the duck lamp.
John Kapelos:Reaching that point in my life, you know, where people around me are, not me, but people around me are are you know, their lives are ending, and I'm thinking maybe I should sort through some of this stuff. So that's been 1 of my plans for 2024 is to go through some of my my stuff. I mean, I have extensive, stuff. I didn't I I, you know, I I kept some scripts. I kept a few things.
Rachewl:That's yeah. We actually just talked to Fred Mahlek.
John Kapelos:Oh, yeah. I thought
Rachewl:we did all the music. Yeah. And he's cleaning out his storage unit, so I now have, like, a 100 videotapes that are sitting to my right here for me to go through. But he Well, you
John Kapelos:know what? I might have a few tapes for you too. So
Rachewl:I mean, I'm here for you. Yes. He goes, I have a couple of videotapes, and then it arrived in, like, a 2 foot by 2 foot box. I was like, that's more than a couple of videotapes. That's fine.
Rachewl:They're all the screener copies that they sent him, and some of them are the ones without sound, which you don't realize how much sound is added
John Kapelos:way it's
Matt:a whole different scale.
John Kapelos:It's amazing how, empty it is. Right? I mean, you know, I I did last year. I worked on days of our lives. I worked on a soap opera.
John Kapelos:Now a lot of people put down soaps. But if you watch a movie or a TV show without effects in it or everything, it's kinda like watching a soap. Yeah. I mean, you know, you could doll up a soap with a lot of our, you know, and 5 point runs around and all that stuff. I mean, I'm not saying but, you know, it's interesting how that stuff can really, change your POV on something.
John Kapelos:People really will not put up with crummy sound. They'll put up with bad picture. Like, The Blair Witch Project, the old that old film is an example of that.
Rachewl:Yeah.
John Kapelos:They'll put up with a really sort of gnarly picture kind of in a weird way, but not sound. And sound is what really sells a movie.
Rachewl:Yeah. It's yeah. You're very true. In fact, 1 of the well
John Kapelos:I mean, picture does too in editing and acting and all that other stuff. But
Rachewl:Yeah. But no. I mean, yeah. Because I know that some of the more recent movies we've gone to see in theaters, the music is so loud and the voices are so low. You almost can't hear what's going on.
Rachewl:And it's kind of the trend right now is just to have I
John Kapelos:hate it. As a matter of fact Yeah.
Matt:It's like a weird sound base.
John Kapelos:Yeah. Finding a lot of narration and stuff that I'm watching on TV. The narrations mix too low and this and the music's too high.
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah.
John Kapelos:And, you know, I've mixed a few things in my time, albums and things in a few TV shows, and I think that they're bearing the the narration. And again, you know, because people have different types of systems, surround sound systems, whatever. Right. Anyway
Rachewl:Yeah. So you were in the shape of water, and so was Nigel Bennett, and so was a 1962 teal Cadillac. Is Guillermo del Toro a forever night fan?
John Kapelos:I I wouldn't put it past him. I mean, Guillermo is a watcher. I mean, he watches stuff, and he's such a smart, incredibly gifted individual that yeah. I would imagine he is.
Rachewl:Okay. Well, let's we're gonna go with that then.
John Kapelos:I'll ask I'll ask him next time. I'll nail him on it. If not, I'll send him a compendium of stuff. Have you ever seen have you ever seen the, the Rockefeller skanks that somebody edited together online? I love I love that.
John Kapelos:I have seen. I I admire that.
Rachewl:Because, we're friends with, Kristen who did all the videos. She had a couple of videos on the Sony release of the DVD and, where she's cut some things together to some of Fred Mullen's music and some other music. Good. Yeah. And but she tends to focus on a couple of characters, which is fine.
Rachewl:And so to see 1 that was skanky was like, oh, good. Like, I'm I'm here for this. Yeah.
John Kapelos:I know I'm not the most popular character with a lot of the the vamp the vampirologists.
Rachewl:Well, we, we deeply missed you in season 3. In fact, Matt had no idea you were not in season 3, and we got to the first episode of season 3. It blow
John Kapelos:me up.
Rachewl:Of course, skanky blows up. Yeah. And Matt was like, no. He's not in I was like, no.
Matt:Oh, I felt betrayed.
John Kapelos:Well, they they did that because they wanted no the network wanted no possible chance of me ever coming back. They disliked me that much.
Rachewl:Yeah. Wow. What's interesting is in the German version, there's that scene at the beginning when, Skanky calls Gare, and in the American version, there's no audio. He's just talking to the phone.
Matt:You only hear Gare.
Rachewl:But in the German version, they dub in, the Skanky dub actor responding to him on the phone, which I think is interesting.
John Kapelos:The skanky dub. Well, you know, III have to say, you know, I mean, it's it's it's a while back and and all that stuff. But, you know, it's smart at doing you know, not not being able to do it. But they had a different mandate. They wanted me to do, you know, to be stone tree or whatever, be the captain.
John Kapelos:I didn't wanna do it.
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we talked about
Matt:pitch for you staying Yeah. Was to be the captain?
John Kapelos:Yeah. And, you know, take, you know, work less, work you know, and and they wanted, a younger female partner for Gare, which they got. And they also, you know, I guess it was going to USA Network, and that's sort of where they want they had a different demographic, and they wanted more I don't know whether it's sort of sexier, younger, whatever. It all seems so dated and weird now when you look back on it.
Rachewl:Well, if it makes you feel better, season 3 is almost completely unavailable.
John Kapelos:So Really?
Rachewl:Yeah. That never streams.
John Kapelos:The,
Matt:yeah, the streaming rights for season 3 are tied up somewhere.
Rachewl:Mhmm.
John Kapelos:Is that a Peridot? Is that a Peridot thing?
Rachewl:I have no however it got packaged and sold, season 3 wasn't part
John Kapelos:of it. So Paragon went south as a company. Right?
Rachewl:I think, Columbia Tri Star had the distribution rights for a long time, Sony. And then, when they lost them, they're kind of just in the wind. And so
Matt:We have someone on our Discord trying
Rachewl:to track
Matt:down the licensing rights for streaming for season 3.
Rachewl:Yeah. But even when it was on Amazon Prime, you could stream season 1 and 2. Season 3, you couldn't even buy. And then now, I think Apple, you can buy season 1 through 3, but Apple's the only 1 where you can buy all 3 seasons.
Matt:But you have to buy it before you can
Rachewl:watch it.
John Kapelos:Buy it. More questions.
Rachewl:Okay. I'm a let you chew for a minute. Alright. So you have a jazz album, 2 hit for the room.
John Kapelos:Yeah.
Rachewl:Did you always want to be a musician? How'd that come about?
John Kapelos:I did I did about 8 to 10 years of piano lessons when I was a kid. And when I was a teenager, I had a couple of really, really gifted friends who were musicians, and I realized, gosh, I'm not as good as them. And I also wanted to act more, but I always did music, you know, and a lot of actors, you know, harbor music musical ambitions. My my biggest thing was to when I worked at Second City was to do music that was humorous, but not weird like weird I'm sorry. Weird Al Yankovic funny.
John Kapelos:Something you can listen to again and again that was funny and humorous. But when I was a kid, they call them novelty songs. You know? And they were kind of funny for, like, the first time you hear them, and then you can't hear them anymore. And I wanted to do sort of jazz.
John Kapelos:People really take themselves seriously. And I really love music. Yeah. So I decided when I after I'd done a certain amount of acting that I really wanted to do an album. So I started working with some musicians and improving my musical chops, and I recorded 3 albums, 1 of which is available right now.
John Kapelos:I pulled I pulled the other 2 off because, you know, streaming and the whole you know, you can't make money off this stuff. I mean, it's not like No. You know? III don't know how some of my working musician friends are doing it, frankly. I have a friend of mine that just released an album, and the economics are so lousy.
John Kapelos:But but I love doing it, and, I I love writing it. And it's sort of complementary to my sort of, work, if you will.
Rachewl:Yeah. Well, it's good. It's good to have a thing that you do because that's what you wanna do.
Matt:Yeah. Rachel had some of it playing earlier.
Rachewl:Yeah. We were. And I
Matt:could see if if you don't listen, like, really closely to the lyrics, it's catchy. Like, you can just listen to it and enjoy it.
Rachewl:Are also catchy. That's not where he's going. Yeah.
Matt:But then the lyrics add like an it's, like, subtle. You have to pay attention to lyrics to get
John Kapelos:Yeah. It's not entirely background music sometimes. I mean, 1 of my cousins put it on other place and, like, it gets a little bit, you know, intense. But, you know, I I come from a time and place where, you know, I put on an album and sit down and listen to it. I'd listen to the side 1 and side 2.
John Kapelos:I mean, I know that people listen to music differently, and, but, you know, IIII did made the album. I mean, you can listen to individual cuts and stuff like that. But, you know, III love doing it. I love doing it, and I'm working on a new, album right now on my dog. My dog knows that I have pizza here.
Rachewl:Well, he knows you have food. Yeah. He's like, no. I'm not okay. I'm not eating your pizza.
Rachewl:So do you have any upcoming projects?
John Kapelos:I have a script that I've written with, somebody else called the mayor of Koreatown, and it's a film noir, and it's a series for streaming and, that I would be the lead in. So that's a project that we are currently trying to sell, and, things are looking good. There are a couple of movies that, I'm I'm slated to do this year. Although 1 of them, the funding just fell through, so I don't know whether it's gonna happen. And the other 1, the funding just happened.
John Kapelos:So that that's gonna happen. But I gotta tell you, I mean, I'm sure other actors, I don't know whether they are telling you this, but Hollywood is kind of at a weird place right now. Doesn't seem to be post strike, a lot of activity, and that's a bit ominous for a lot of people, including myself. But, you know, I've been doing this a while, and, and sometimes the ocean swells can get kind of deep and and hollow, and so it can be a long time between gigs. And, you know, I say this to friends and and family and anybody who will listen, but they sort of nod their heads and go, yeah.
John Kapelos:We've heard you say this before. But, you know, I may never work again. And and that's kind of the that's kind of the thing you have to really keep in mind as an actor. Like, it this might be it. Now did you have do you ever see a show called Beacon 23?
Rachewl:I have not. It's
John Kapelos:a sci fi show that's on MGM. I did an episode of that a couple years ago that I have not seen yet. Friend of mine saw it recently, said it was pretty good, but, that was fun to shoot. And, is Lena Lena Headley is in it, Hetty, The woman from Game of Thrones?
Rachewl:Mhmm. Mhmm.
John Kapelos:Anyway, that's something that's out there. And, you know, I did I did 50 episodes of Days of Our Lives last year, and they killed my character off. I played a,
Rachewl:Oh, that's not the end. It's a soap opera. You could still
John Kapelos:tell it. It's what everybody says, but I I think that they were they they were kind of wipe them wipe their hands on me. So any more questions? What other questions do you have? No?
Rachewl:Well, yeah, just where can people go to figure out where you're gonna be showing up next? We saw you in New Jersey, and I honestly can't remember how we found you there.
John Kapelos:Well, Facebook is the best place right now. My Facebook page or the Instagram, the John Capitalist message.
Rachewl:You did a trial in Chicago where you were Socrates on trial.
John Kapelos:And that just was on PBS now, and it's it's up for an Emmy on PBS.
Rachewl:Yeah. Nice.
John Kapelos:And I just did a play here in town, 3 performances of a play at the Getty Villa where I played I, Socrates, another another his name was ice Esocrates, another,
Rachewl:Mhmm.
John Kapelos:Philosopher who was after Socrates. But, so I'm I'm sort of getting into playing philosophers. You know? And I'm always up for stuff. I mean, I'm up for a really good show and up meaning, you know, they're I'm 1 of the people they're putting in consideration.
John Kapelos:So that's always part of my
Rachewl:Yeah. Keep your foot in the door. Yeah. And I love to act.
John Kapelos:I mean, I love to act. The thought of me not acting anymore depresses me more than anybody else.
Rachewl:Well, I think you're good. You've got, like, 200 credits on IMDB, so just get you rolling.
John Kapelos:Who's counting? Right?
Rachewl:Well, IMDB count is how I knew. But, yeah, because we were trying to make it to Chicago, but we didn't hear about it till too late and then couldn't go. So I just wanted to see if there was a the best place to go find information. So Facebook or Instagram.
John Kapelos:Well, I mean, you know, I'll, now that, you know, keep your ear to the ground now that I know you guys, I'll make sure that you're in the loop. You know?
Rachewl:Okay. Because we're happy to advertise for you if you haven't
John Kapelos:been love that. I would love that. Because I'm thinking of doing, do going on the road with my band, with a big band, and doing shows in Cleveland, Chicago, New York. And, so we're working on the logistics of that. Because I'm not gonna travel with a 18 piece big band, but I would travel with a piano player, and we'd go and do the band, pick up the band in every city because there are enough musicians in those cities.
John Kapelos:And I wanna do I wanna perform live. I wanna do some, live singing and performing.
Rachewl:Yeah. I could see that being pretty
Matt:fun. Exciting.
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah. We just talked to Fred. He lived he's in Nashville. So, my niece has a boyfriend who just moved there to do drumming, and so we were talking about you know, he was saying that's, like, such a unique place for musicians and kind of, you
Matt:know The scene.
Rachewl:The scene, I guess. Yeah.
John Kapelos:And and Fred is so you know, he's inventive and clever and smart and and so talented that But, you know, show business is a matrix. It's it's tough. And, you know, I was told the other day that friends of mine were out and and with a bunch of people, and they didn't know who Steve Martin or Martin Short were, but they knew who Selena Gomez was. So it's like, you know, once you're over a certain age, people don't know. They don't care.
Rachewl:Oh, well, we knew you. It was fine. Drove all the way up to New Jersey. Just for you. Well,
John Kapelos:did now what about my swag? Do what do you think of it? Yeah. Did you listen to anything?
Matt:Oh, Meg has it?
Rachewl:Yeah. Meg has your album that she bought. The
John Kapelos:Then did she listen to the extra tracks?
Rachewl:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she did.
John Kapelos:Cool. Cool.
Rachewl:Yeah. She's in Tennessee too, so, we don't live close to each other. But, yes, she we took it apart in the hotel room and had all you had all the unpacked everything. Unpacked. Yeah.
Rachewl:We you had the hand drawn cards and some other stuff in there. So that was really sweet.
John Kapelos:Thing.
Rachewl:Did you sell out? Did you sell all 6?
John Kapelos:Yeah. I did. People bought them. Awesome.
Rachewl:That was really good. Oh, thank you for coming on and for chatting with us.
John Kapelos:Well, thank you for having me. And and, you know, have me again. I mean, you know, if it it would be fun if we did a get Nigel and and, Karen together, the 3 of us on 1 day.
Rachewl:I would die. I would die. We are going to Toronto
John Kapelos:Because then then the stories will come out because honestly, you asked me about stories, and and and there are a few that I could tell, but, I I think I'd have to get their permission. So
Rachewl:Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've seen Kathy,
John Kapelos:Disher.
Rachewl:Disher. Yeah. Catherine. I should call her Catherine. My my apologies.
Rachewl:So That's alright. We met Catherine in, Orlando, and then, we we got a cameo from her as well. And I feel like anytime you get in her orbit, she loves tell stories about things. And Meg and I joke that we're Fort Knox. Can't repeat any story she's ever told us.
John Kapelos:Well, I think she she loves to diss. Disher loves to diss. Dish. Dish. I mean, not diss.
Rachewl:Yeah. It's it's just been fun. We've actually gone on a bit of a road trip. We met Gar in Stratford. We saw, Catherine in Orlando and then saw you
John Kapelos:in lucky for you. What'd you see him in?
Rachewl:We saw him in Grand Magic
John Kapelos:fucking there. That's great.
Rachewl:That he was in last year. Yeah. It was really and he's in London Assurance this year, so we're gonna see him in the
John Kapelos:great on stage.
Rachewl:And, yeah, we're gonna be in Stratford, and we're actually gonna meet with Nigel when we're in Stratford. So we'll get the whole
John Kapelos:Well, when you see them, you make sure you say hello to them from me. Okay?
Rachewl:Okay. That I will. Everybody says that. Say hello to me from to them from Catherine. Kathy said that.
Rachewl:Garrett said that. So, actually, I think he said that. I don't know. I've, like, blanked out. It was the weirdest moment of my life.
Rachewl:That's why we have the whole podcast because Meg Meg and I, we waited outside the door, and he came out
Matt:grand magic.
Rachewl:Yeah. He came out to say hello and to sign our poster, and I just like, Matt had to push us forward. Both
Matt:blanked.
Rachewl:Yeah. I had to push us forward and was like, this is Meg and Rachel. And I was like, hi. Never in my life have I ever done that. I've ever been speechless before.
Rachewl:I don't know what happened. It was late at night. That's what I'm gonna go with. I don't know. It was weird.
Rachewl:But yeah. So we we had a we we've had a wonderful time kinda going on a road trip, forever night road trip, 30 years.
John Kapelos:You know, if this is gonna be without a picture, that's good because you are blushing so much right now.
Rachewl:It's hot. It's hot. It's North Carolina. It's
John Kapelos:like Oh, yeah. It's hot. It's like you're just talking about Darren Nigel. I guess I don't wanna listen to the same response. But
Rachewl:No. No. You're no. I'm just not being professional with you right now.
John Kapelos:No. No. I'm just teasing. They're they're really, really, you know, they're both extraordinary performers, and and so is Catherine. I mean and and and dear, Natalie, gosh.
John Kapelos:What am I blanking on her name now? Not Natalie.
Rachewl:Deb.
John Kapelos:Deb Deb Deb Deb Duchenne. Has anybody heard from her?
Rachewl:No. She's just disappeared. Funny everybody asks, and no. And she never did anything after forever night and didn't stay in touch with anybody, I guess.
John Kapelos:Holy fuck.
Rachewl:So she's just in the wind.
John Kapelos:Okay, guys. Dinner time. Eat.
Rachewl:Okay. Eat your pizza and feed your dog, and thank you for coming on.
John Kapelos:Thank well, thank you for having me. I'm sorry that, I probably was boring. Right?
Rachewl:No. Not at all. Not at all. And I'll let you know when I got the reunion show together.
John Kapelos:Well, do it. Let me know. Keep in touch.
Rachewl:I will. That would be great.
Matt:Bye. Bye.