Sales Strategies to Scale

In this episode, Tiffany-Ann Bottcher speaks with Greg Nutter, a sales expert in B2B sales strategy and business growth. Greg shares invaluable insights on mastering the sales process, scaling service-based businesses, and overcoming common challenges in sales management. Whether you’re a solopreneur or managing a team, this episode breaks down key strategies to help you take control of your sales process, boost revenue, and reduce the stress of relying on inconsistent sales outcomes.

Key Insights:

• Sales Process Mastery: Developing structured sales processes is essential for growing any business.
• Scaling Challenges: Service-based businesses face unique challenges in scaling, particularly around processes and team management.
• Sales Leadership: Entrepreneurs need to understand the sales process, even when they aren’t the ones doing the selling.
• B2B vs. B2C Sales: Recognizing the differences between selling to businesses and consumers can significantly impact your sales approach.
• Sales Coaching: Greg discusses the importance of sales coaching and why simply hiring a "hotshot" sales agent is rarely the answer.

About The Host:

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher is an accomplished business strategist, podcast host, and founder of Bottcher.io. With a passion for helping businesses grow through smart, data-driven strategies, Tiffany-Ann brings a unique perspective to entrepreneurship and leadership.

Connect with Tiffany-Ann:

Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ta_bottcher
Website: https://www.bottcher.io
Podcast: https://podcast.servicebasedbusinesssociety.com

About The Guest:

Greg Nutter is a seasoned sales expert with over 35 years of experience working with both large corporations and small businesses. As the author of P3 Selling: The Essentials of B2B Sales Success, Greg offers practical advice and processes that any business can use to increase sales consistency and develop a winning sales strategy.

Website: https://soloquent.com/p3-selling-book/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-nutter/

Book Available On Amazon
US: https://www.amazon.com/P3-Selling-Essentials-Sales-Success/dp/154452997X
Canada: https://www.amazon.ca/P3-Selling-Essentials-Sales-Success/dp/154452997X

Creators & Guests

Host

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher

Entrepreneur | Founder, Bottcher Group | Host, Service Based Business Society Podcast | Author, Data Driven Method | Helping you scale your success!

Guest

Greg Nutter

Best Selling Author, P3 Selling. Strategies and best practices that help organizations transform their channel and direct sales teams from suppliers to trusted advisors.

What is Service Based Business Society Podcast?

Attention entrepreneurs! Are you looking for ways to scale your service-based business without sacrificing your sleep? Look no further than The Service Based Business Society Podcast, hosted by Tiffany-Ann Bottcher.

Each week, Tiffany-Ann shares valuable insights on productivity, business strategies, marketing trends, and tech secrets that you need to know in order to take your business to the next level. She firmly believes that a successful service-based business must prioritize an amazing client experience and sustainable, predictable, repeatable profit, and she'll teach you how to do just that.

But that's not all - Tiffany-Ann also invites expert guests to share their knowledge and experience with you, providing even more valuable insights on service-based business growth and sustainability. You won't want to miss a single episode!

If you're looking to create, grow, and optimize your service-based business, The Service Based Business Society Podcast is the perfect resource for you.

And don't forget to join the community on Instagram by searching for Service Based Business Society Podcast

MINDSET
Focused on helping entrepreneurs cultivate the right mindset for success in their businesses. Hosted by experts in the field, the podcast covers a range of topics related to mindset and business, including self-improvement, goal setting, visualization, and meditation. The podcast provides practical tools and strategies to help listeners develop a growth mindset, overcome limiting beliefs, and build confidence. Through inspiring interviews with successful entrepreneurs and thought leaders, the podcast shows that a positive and resilient mindset is key to achieving business success.

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Dedicated to equipping business leaders with the knowledge and skills they need to lead with confidence, based on data-driven insights. Hosted by experts in business leadership, the podcast covers a range of topics related to data analysis and interpretation, strategic decision-making, and effective communication. It provides practical tools and strategies for interpreting complex data sets and using them to make informed business decisions that drive growth and success. Through engaging interviews with successful business leaders and industry experts, the podcast offers valuable insights and examples of how to use data to build strong teams and drive innovation.

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A great resource for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to learn from the experiences of successful business owners. Through relatable and engaging entrepreneurship stories, the podcast provides valuable insights into the challenges and opportunities that come with starting and running a business. Hosted by experienced entrepreneurs, the podcast covers a range of topics related to entrepreneurship, including idea generation, product development, marketing, and fundraising. Each episode features inspiring interviews with successful entrepreneurs, who share their personal stories and provide practical advice and tips for those looking to start and grow their own businesses.

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Whether you are just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, this podcast is a great source of inspiration and guidance from real-world examples of entrepreneurship success.

Brought to you by Bottcher Group of Companies

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 00:00

Hello and welcome to the Service Based Business Society podcast. I am your host, Tiffany Ann Botcher. On our weekly episodes, we will dig into everything you need to know about scaling your service based business without losing sleep. With my experience in creating over 7 figures per month and a passion for marketing, finance, and automation, this show will provide tangible tips and techniques for scaling your business. Let's get started.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 00:28

Welcome back to another episode, guys. Today, we are talking to sales expert, Greg Nutter. Now sales is the lifeblood of any business, and you may find that kind of interesting for the operations finance person to come right out and promote the sales team. I remember back in my time in corporate, there was always this kind of back and forth between the ops and finance team and the sales team because, ultimately, the sales team was, you know, a little more fly by the seat of their pants, a little bit more cowboy, as I used to call it back in the day, selling things that didn't exist, just getting it done, making promises to customers. And then it was the operations, you know, finance people that would be like, hey, but we can't do that.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 01:14

And what about this? And what about that? And so there was always this kind of back and forth. Leaving the corporate space, though, and starting my own business now almost 4 years ago, I realized that if you cancel something, you don't have anything. It doesn't matter how amazing your product is.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 01:30

If people don't know it exists, if you can't connect with people, if they can't understand what you do for them, ultimately, your business is dead in the water. And as a introvert, as a non salesperson, that's hard for me to admit that, hey, this is a super important skill. Greg breaks it down in really easy to understand steps. He talks about things that are maybe not so intuitive. He talks about the process.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 01:57

He talks about what really can make the difference. So it doesn't matter your industry. It doesn't matter where you are in your business journey. It doesn't it doesn't matter. Sales is so critical because if we cannot influence someone to understand our idea and how it benefits them, our business can't exist.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 02:16

It came from. It can't do these things. So, you know, while Craig has worked with some incredible sales teams, he also offers some incredible tips and value for everyday business owners who maybe aren't ready to hire a sales team yet, who are their salesperson. So with over 35 years experience, Greg has worked with a wide range of companies to develop with over 35 years experience, Greg has worked with a wide range of companies to develop strategies, programs, processes, tools to grow revenues, enter new markets, increase sales consistency, maximize selling investments, develop skilled sales process, and people. This is so incredibly important to growing businesses in any industry.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 03:01

So super excited to have Greg Nutter here on the show. Welcome to the show, Greg. Thanks, Tiffany. Great to be here. So such a important topic in business, sales.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 03:11

A lot of business owners, and if you say, what would make the biggest difference in your business? They say more sales. I need more sales. I need more customers. I need bigger sales.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 03:19

And so, you know, when your information came across my email and I got reading a little bit more about your book, I thought Greg is a great person to have on the show because we can learn a little more about how can we generate those sales, you know, as people who maybe don't have a full sales team. And, so why don't you talk to a little bit about how you got into this industry and and a little more about yourself?

Greg Nutter: 03:42

Sure. I mean, I'm a career salesperson. Actually, my degree is in computer science, but I discovered I preferred talking about technology more than than doing it. So, worked for Xerox for 10 years, was a consultant for a number of years, 8 or 9 years. After a few big companies, worked for small companies.

Greg Nutter: 04:02

And I got to see the challenges that little companies have, which is very different than the scale of, you know, the big Xeroxes of the world that have lots of people and lots of processes. And so work with 3 or 4, putting in sales processes, hiring people, developing the sales infrastructure. And And then about 15 years ago, I went out on my own and started consulting. And I did, a lot of the big companies, Microsoft, Hewlett Packard, NCR, SAP, but I also did a lot of companies that were as small as 2 people, or 20 people. And, again, you'll know this, Tiffany, is that they're what they're trying to do is the same, but their challenges, which are mostly resource related, skills related, process related, compounds the issue.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 04:54

Percent. I think that, you know, a lot of business owners start with a great idea, and those serial entrepreneurs typically have lots of great ideas. But actually taking it from, hey. I have an idea, getting it to the point where we can actually sell it because that's one piece of the journey. And now we're selling it, and then we sell enough of it to make some actual money.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 05:12

And then we got some operational challenges with actually executing and implementing that. And so, you know, if you think of those big organizations you mentioned, I always find that, you know, in a big organization, each there's so many pieces, so many moving pieces, but one thing can fall apart. And there's so many other things going on that sometimes those little tiny pieces can often be hidden in a sea of things that are going right. And in a littler, smaller business, maybe a start up, maybe in the 1st few years, that type of thing, Some of those pieces, you know, can really cause a problem very quickly.

Greg Nutter: 05:45

Absolutely. Like big companies have lots of resources. And if something falls to the crack, there's a 1,000,000 people to plug the crack. Totally. One thing that you and your listeners will know that service based businesses are particularly hard to scale.

Greg Nutter: 05:59

They're hard to scale for a couple of reasons, but the 2 that that I think of most is the product is hard to scale. It's not that repeatable. It's often customized. It's very customized. You just can't, you know, unless you're doing a software as a service business, it's very difficult to scale.

Greg Nutter: 06:16

The other thing is is the selling services is more complex than a product. It has more nuance to it. It's therefore, it's often more complex. It's harder to differentiate. So, scaling services businesses from a product or from a selling standpoint is complex.

Greg Nutter: 06:34

And the key, and I, you know, I look at some of your publications and, you know, you, you capture this really well. The key is 2 things. 1 is it requires process and it requires some skills and particularly some, you know, not just, hi. How are you? Here's my product skills.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 06:50

Yeah. It's interesting because I think one of the you know, there's service based businesses that the the owner is the service. So, you know, this is your photographer. Well, it's really hard to scale a photography business because you're one person. And unless you hire another photographer or find a way to sell that time more that, you know, add add additional support in the office, that is a really difficult business to scale.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 07:11

And really the only way to make more money is to charge more for the same service.

Greg Nutter: 07:15

Yeah.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 07:16

Then you branch into services where you can add additional team members. I really feel like that that step of scaling in that business is that you have to ultimately be able to replace yourself doing the service so that you can now grow and run your business, or you need to hire someone to grow and run your business so that you can continue to lead a team in the field or or wherever it is.

Greg Nutter: 07:38

Yeah. There's there's 3 critical components to scaling a sales capability, revenue generation capability. The first is good sales processes. So how do we prospect? How do we manage deals?

Greg Nutter: 07:50

How do we, you know, put together proposals? How do we implement? How do we onboard, etcetera? The second is good sales management processes. And that might come as a surprise to some entrepreneurs is don't I just hire somebody and they get deals for me?

Greg Nutter: 08:05

Right. And the third key is consistent execution of both. And I work with a lot of small business owners. In fact, I worked recently with one who does engineering services. They create robotic systems for car manufacturers.

Greg Nutter: 08:19

And he's an engineer and was heavily dependent on an external sales agent who was about to retire. So he called me up. We went out. We ran a workshop on the book. And what he realized is that he was delegating all of the sales process to the sales agent.

Greg Nutter: 08:34

So he's got a deal or he didn't get a deal. It was just kind of luck of draw. Once he understand stood the process of selling and the process of managing the selling, he was in control. He then had control of his own destiny as to whether, you know, whether he got a deal or how many more deals he got. And that's very empowering for business owners to say, hey.

Greg Nutter: 08:56

I have my, my finger on the pulse of of revenue generation.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 09:02

And I think that ultimately that is the piece that causes business owners the most stress is not necessarily having and it it almost being kind of the luck, the luck of the you know, did a sale come in? Well, I hope, you know, I hope. And so, you know, you have times in your business, maybe it's seasonal. And so you think, well, now it's super busy and I maybe don't wanna be selling as much, but the sales are just coming in and you you're struggling to keep up. And then other times in the year where it really dries up and you're just hoping that either an old customer comes back or they recommend a friend.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 09:34

And and so you're you're really kind of having these, you know, highs and lows. And as a business owner, especially once you have a team, now you're thinking, I have to keep those people working. I don't wanna I've trained them. I don't wanna lose them, so I wanna keep them working. And so now there comes this this stress and anxiety of, oh, we're not booked out.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 09:53

How do we get booked out? Do I need to drop the price? Am I overpriced? Does somebody else undercut? You know, it's this kind of rotation.

Greg Nutter: 10:01

Absolutely. Absolutely. There's, a couple things that, sees on there. The first thing is that a lot of your entrepreneurs who are subject matter experts in their particular field don't think they need to sell. And I push back and I say, yeah, you do need to sell.

Greg Nutter: 10:15

The problem is, is what's selling? And selling is, in a business business environment, is influencing on someone on the need to change. Change your perspective, change your situation. And so if you are trying to convince someone that your service is good, your recommendation is the right one, to differentiate between you and other service, you need selling, which is influencing skills. Right?

Greg Nutter: 10:40

And with without that, you just talk about your product and cross your fingers. So whether or not you've got the word sales in your title or in your job description, if you need to influence people on the merits of change, then you need to have some cursory selling experience. The second thing is, is that, you know, you talk about a great point. When's the deal coming in? Where are we?

Greg Nutter: 11:02

Are we gonna, are we gonna starve in the next quarter? Right? And while not all entrepreneurs want to be out there, you know, carrying the bag and making calls. They need to have an awareness of what's going on. One of the things, just coaching one owner on recently is pipeline management, which is looking at and saying, what deals do we have?

Greg Nutter: 11:24

Where are they? When are they likely to close? Do we have enough? Do we have too many? Mhmm.

Greg Nutter: 11:30

And if you're not if you have no awareness of that, then you are doing exactly what you said. You're just crossing your fingers, and you can't you can't scale across in your business business. Oh, sorry. Crossing your fingers business.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 11:43

No. And so, I mean, my history, you know, you talk about kind of the the more tech side in your history. And so, I mean, I come from a data analytics, accounting, finance, 0 sales. And so, you know, I I had just finished my MBA before I left corporate. Turns out once you're your own boss, it the you know, nobody cares.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 12:02

And so, you know, I finished my so I've got years of school. I've been in the corporate space for, you know, 13 years. And, you know, I get out and people I I I needed to leave for a variety of reasons, but it comes down to what am I gonna sell. And, you know, realizing that that that ultimately, until you can sell something, you really can't do anything because it doesn't matter how great your product is. It doesn't matter how amazing your service is.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 12:26

It doesn't matter if you could change someone's life until you can actually get them to give you a shot. It ultimately makes no difference. And so, I mean, I leaned really heavily into the sales sales side when I first started, and I was like, okay. I know nothing about this, but I am an intelligent person. And I can I I need to learn?

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 12:47

I need to figure this out. And I I often thought back because in my corporate space, I had 2 business partners. And one was, like, the sales guy. And he and I were always butting heads because I was, like, operations finance, and he was, like, scatterbrain scales. Oh, I sold this.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 12:59

I'd be like, we don't even do that. He's like, but I sold it. So we gotta do it now. And so we were always butting heads. And I remember as my business started thinking, gosh, I wish I paid more attention to what he was doing because it could really help me right now.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 13:11

And so, you know, it's when you're a business owner that doesn't have a huge team, you often have these different sides where you're you know, you've got your operations side or the purse the part that's gotta actually go and do the service that's like, hey. We can't do that. That's too hard. Then you got the sales side who wants to sell. So and and when you're one person, you've got this kind of conflicting piece that instead of 2 people sitting around a table debating whether or not we should have done this and, well, it's already done, so we gotta figure it out now.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 13:36

Now you're one person who's like, I don't really know if this is a good idea and should I have sold this and should I have sold it for more. And so that, you know, added to the volume stress, you've got this kind of piece where really sales and actually the execution are really 2 separate roles in a bigger organization and for a reason.

Greg Nutter: 13:54

Yeah. Yeah. The one thing I'll comment there, I talk about it in in my book, is what what comes what people think is selling intuitively. They think, well, this is how you sell, Is how you sell in a b to c environment. You talk about your product, you ask for the order.

Greg Nutter: 14:15

In b to b, it's a lot of the strategies, the tactics are very counterintuitive. And so lots of smart people who start great businesses come at it from a an intuitive way and and they get it wrong. Right? And so having some kind of guidance on here's the right way, here's the wrong way is really, really critical. The second thing is is that you get a lot of entrepreneurs who I just wanna hire a real hot gun, give them a comp plan where they can make, you know, $1,000,000 and have them run.

Greg Nutter: 14:49

Right? Yep. That's really hard to do. Couple reasons. One is the really good salespeople, they don't wanna work for a little company.

Greg Nutter: 14:59

Right? They wanna work for the big fat companies that got big presidents club trips and, benefits, and they can get promoted to the top. And they don't wanna work for a little comp. But the days of just saying, here's a comp plan, you know, hiring a guy, giving them a comp plan, saying go. It just doesn't work.

Greg Nutter: 15:18

So you're you're unlikely to get the top of, you know, the top performers. So you gotta have some process in there so you can see what they're doing, understand what they're doing, quote, and, you know, monitor what they're doing. Or, you know, you're just, again, crossing your fingers.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 15:38

And, ultimately, any any part of business left with crossing your fingers, it doesn't matter what it is. It's just ultimately not the best process. Because a lot of you know? And and every so often, I always find it interesting to watch, like, Dragon's Den or Shark Tank. Because every once in a while, you see these people who have, like, what you think is, like, not and they talk about their success and they talk about their business and you're like, that's not really a thing.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 16:00

And they've had wild success. And then you see other people who you're like, that is super cool. Maybe the actual framework around it is not great, but what the the idea, the concept is great. And so, you know, there's these different pieces and so then you kinda go to, well, what makes one successful versus the other and whatnot. So you talked about kind of having knowing what works and knowing what doesn't, and sometimes it be being counterintuitive.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 16:24

So what kind of advice can you offer in terms of, you know, what are some of those pieces that are counterintuitive, but really are the difference makers?

Greg Nutter: 16:33

Well, I like to say there's kind of 5 5 key things that sell often get wrong. The first thing is they forget what selling is. Selling is not talking about your product and asking for the selling is involves three things, understanding someone's perception of their situation, influencing that perception so that they'll change and ideally change by buying your product, and then messaging back based on what they've told you. So it's not talking about product, national order, influencing. Second thing is is leading with product, right, which is kind of type of prospecting.

Greg Nutter: 17:07

Here. I got a great product. I got a great company. We do a lot of work for for, a, b, c and d, e, f company. Well, the reality is no income.

Greg Nutter: 17:15

People in business don't buy products. They buy solutions to problems or ways of capturing opportunities. And the reason why that's important is unless you frame your offering in that contact one of those two contexts, no one cares. Right? I don't need an accounting service.

Greg Nutter: 17:35

Oh, you you may not. But we found a lot, companies who don't have solid, bookkeeping and account management don't know where they are month to month and get surprised with not being able to make you think that's a problem you might, like, wanna avoid. So now if I put it in that context, it's like, oh, yeah. I don't want that happen. Oh, great.

Greg Nutter: 17:56

Let me tell you about it. Right? Right. So talking about the third thing, I guess, which is really a big leading with a sales process, which is what a lot of junior and sometimes senior salespeople do rather than following a buying decision process. So the fact that I just I made a call, asked a few questions, put in a proposal, you think, oh, the next step is ask but instead, you need to look at where that person is in making a buying decision.

Greg Nutter: 18:26

People go through very predictable stages, 4 key ones, 4 or 5 key on coming to a decision. Actually, they make it not just in buying but, you know, a lot of big decisions. They go through the same 4 or 5 steps. So you need to understand where they are. And based on where they are, it tells you what to do.

Greg Nutter: 18:46

So if someone has made no no decision around buying sales training, buying accounting services, then to put together a proposal is a waste of time. Right? So where do they see a problem? Do they see the value of fixing it? Have they thought of the alternatives?

Greg Nutter: 19:07

Are they looking at different alternatives? So where they are tells you what and the last big one, I guess, is a lot of people in sales, they don't plan. And we talk about 4 key processes that you need to have in place, which really require planning, which is prospecting, you know, opportunity, pipeline management, call and, just wit is, works sometimes, but it's not a good, formula for scaling your business.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 19:36

Right. Right. So let's talk a little bit about that kind of follow-up process. So, you know, we're kinda talking about getting that proposal out, and and I think that that process, of course, is very different for for every, you know, business and industry in terms of what's involved. And I think that for a lot of business owners, you know, they can do some kind of sales call whether that's on the phone, in person, over Zoom, whatever that is, and and ask enough questions to put together together some kind of proposal.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 20:05

And I find that whether it's in b to b and b to c, which we'll talk a little bit about the differences in the follow-up process, you know, you you have a great chat with the person. However, you feel like you're really connected. You had a great, you know, you were like, yeah. The person's like, yeah. Send that over.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 20:20

We're gonna get started and you send the proposal and crickets. Now I will say that every once in a while, those people come back around when you expect them least and, like, we're, like, yeah. I'm ready to get it's, like, a year later, and they're, like, yeah. I'm ready to get started. Let's go.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 20:37

And you're, like, hello? You're back. Okay. But what is the you know, what do you talk about in your book or in your in your experience that that to to take that from great connection, sent the proposal, nothing. Yep.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 20:53

What happens? What's next?

Greg Nutter: 20:55

We we talk about that quite a bit. So, at the core, we talk about influencing. You know, what are sales? Sales is in. And, there's 2 peep 2 ways to influence.

Greg Nutter: 21:04

There's the easy way that's not very effective called telling. You should really have an accounting service. You should really train your sales. Not very effective. The effective way is asking good questions that cause people to think, maybe I should have an accounting service.

Greg Nutter: 21:18

Right? So asking questions is how you influence. There's 4 key categories of questions. The first one is called facts. How many people do you have?

Greg Nutter: 21:29

What are you spending each month? Then there's questions around problems. Hey. Your costs are going up. Do you is that a concern?

Greg Nutter: 21:36

Is that, then there's importance. How big a deal is that? Is that gonna put your business so here's what we facts. Asking fact questions allows asking questions around problems or opportunities allows you asking questions around importance, which is urgency or impact, allows you to motivate. So if you had a great call, we got along great, hey, we got an opportunity there, and all you got was some then it's, hi, Tiffany Ann.

Greg Nutter: 22:06

Did you get my proposal? What do you think? Can you call me back? It's like, I got better things to do to call you back. Right?

Greg Nutter: 22:12

But if I said to you, Tiffany, you know, we had a great call. You told me about the problem of this escalating cost and how it might impact your payroll in a few months. That sounded pretty, be great if we could reconnect so we can get this solved for you. I need to call back. Right?

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 22:31

Mhmm.

Greg Nutter: 22:32

So too often, we go into a call and we get just enough information, but not enough information to sell or motivate. And without that, they people just So

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 22:42

now I'm a person who who enjoys the sales process, but doesn't like the, like, cliche sales. And so when someone on the phone starts asking me those kind of questions, I am immediately like, I know it's coming back around. It's like, oh, how am and it it feels so robotic and so predictable when they're like, oh, and and and how just how much do you think that problem is costing you every month? And how many months do you forecast that problem will go on for? And you're like, yeah, I can do that math.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 23:13

Thank you as well. And so, you know, I find that sometimes in the sales process, 4 people will say, you must follow you must meet this many times before we'll talk price and you must do this and you must do that. So what do you say to those who kind of push back against something structured? Because we kind of say intuitive isn't necessarily the best and and so but sometimes it fee it goes the other way and it feels robotic and it feels like pressure in the questions. You haven't even started applying the pressure, but you can feel like the fat collection for the pressure is kind.

Greg Nutter: 23:45

Right. Right. Good selling b to b selling is like being a good consultant. Right? Whether it's a good attorney or any kind of service provider.

Greg Nutter: 23:56

Your your job there is to diagnose whether or not somebody has a problem, whether it's fair enough, whether you can fix it. If they don't, hey. It was great spending time with you, but we don't we don't have anything to offer you. So it's a consultative process, and you need to make people aware of the that's what we're here for. Right?

Greg Nutter: 24:15

It shouldn't sell like a sound feel like a sell. But when people do, and, you know, particularly when you're asking sensitive questions, there's a couple what we call sales plays that I one of them is the most if you're getting pushback is that, you know, use the what's in it for them. Go with it. Right? Hey, Tiffany.

Greg Nutter: 24:37

I that that, you know, this is, you know, a bit of an intrusive question. But the reason I'm asking this, you know, a a quick assessment of whether or not we can add any value. You know, I really appreciate your time, but I don't wanna waste any more of it. You just do a little bit of that. So and and the what's in it for them needs to be about you, not me.

Greg Nutter: 24:57

Well, I really need this stuff because my boss wants me to come back. Well, that's not a what's in it, tactic, which I find works really well is what I call share. So instead of saying, well, you know, how much are you with? And if you're asking question after question after question, right, then it becomes tedious. But I understand you might be reluctant to tell us the cost of your attorney services.

Greg Nutter: 25:20

But we normally find that they charge between $45100 an hour for this. Is that what you're seeing? Are you seeing a lot different? So if I come and share what I've heard from other customers, then it kinda disarms a person by saying, hey. Other people are given this information.

Greg Nutter: 25:39

This is regional information. I should at least, you know, validate. Yeah. It's actually a little higher than that. Okay.

Greg Nutter: 25:45

Then you're done. So it it should conversation that's consultative, not an interrogation. And whenever you get, one of the most powerful things in a sales call, hey. Here's what I wanna do today. Wanna understand a little bit about your situation, particularly in this area, understand if there's any challenges you're dealing with, and whether or not we can so what I'd like to do is, you know, probe on this, and then we come to agreement if, you know, if there should be next steps.

Greg Nutter: 26:15

Would that be okay? And if I tell you what I'm gonna do, why I'm gonna do it, where we're going, you're more likely to say it. But if I just launch in with a 100 questions, like, why is this going? Right, then you're like to

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 26:29

Yeah. It does start to feel like when you mentioned interrogation, if you're you're like, you know, going down the The

Greg Nutter: 26:33

lights on me.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 26:34

A question. Yeah. Question. And, before you know it, you're like, okay. Well, I've collected all my information and then they there isn't really a a dial there's no real connection building.

Greg Nutter: 26:44

The the other thing that's really important, whenever you have a sales call, consultative sales call, there should be a what's in it for the prospect to have that call. What do they get out of it? And in your intro statement, here's why I think this call might be value. And if you don't have a what's in it for them to get the call, you're probably not gonna get it. And if you don't deliver on that during the call, you're not gonna get another one.

Greg Nutter: 27:12

It's fine. I'm yeah. I'm here to gather some information, but this needs to be a valuable exchange for you or or you're not

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 27:21

And so, you know, if we take that now to b to c, what would would you say some of the biggest differences are for those who are thinking, oh, I don't sell b to b, and so maybe it's it's not, you know, the discussions are less formal.

Greg Nutter: 27:34

The key differentiators b to b, is complex. B to c, generally, the product that you're buying is pretty straightforward. It doesn't have a lot of complexity to it, or I can Google it. A decision process is pretty straightforward. There's 1, maybe 2 people who's, not a formal process.

Greg Nutter: 27:53

So it's more gut feel and a more, so the b to c selling cycle goes like it's called, it's a the 2 step. Right? You give information and then you ask for the order or the logical next step. And if someone says, I'm not really that interested, then you say, well, can I give you more information here? And then if you get more information, then you can ask for the order again.

Greg Nutter: 28:16

So it's this this, if you've ever been to a a, a, Sally, that's exactly the way they go. Give you more you really need to have this. Would you wanna buy it tonight? No. No.

Greg Nutter: 28:26

No. No. I'm not interested. Let me tell you why it's more important, and it goes around and around until they try. So b to c is gut feel.

Greg Nutter: 28:34

There's a higher requirement to be a nice, fun, engaging person in b to c because this the deal happens fast. So you need to develop trust and confidence. B to b, the product, and this is what it has more complex. And the decision cycle pays out often with a lot of people over a lot of different interactions. So being nice and fun often is not a formula.

Greg Nutter: 29:02

It's being more methodical consultative. So the b to c cycle is actually a 3 step. Ask, looking for problems because people don't you know, our our companies don't buy products. They buy problems or opportunities. Right?

Greg Nutter: 29:17

So I'm gonna ask and try to create awareness. And then if there's no awareness, I suggest, well, you know, I understand why you might not want an accounting service. Can I give you some ideas why some of our customers found it really valuable? And I suggest in a very respectful way, and then I ask if they would agree. If they don't agree, they don't agree.

Greg Nutter: 29:39

I could suggest something else. If they don't agree, they don't agree. So I move on. Right?

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 29:44

Right.

Greg Nutter: 29:44

And then the last step is I recap. So what you've told me is this is important. This is important. This is important. This is and you'd really like to fix that.

Greg Nutter: 29:53

The the challenge is is a lot of people in beta, you know, I talked to, but intuitively sell using a give information and ask for the order or ask for the next step. That 2 step. Very And

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 30:08

Yeah. It's interesting because you were talking about kinda where they are in their their process. And so one point early on in my in my business journey, you know, people were reaching out and, hey. I can get you a 100 leads and and this kind of thing. And and so, you know, you're starting out to get a 100 leads.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 30:23

That sounds great. Like, I if I get on the phone with a 100 you know, so far, if I get on the phone with x number of people, I'm gonna close x number of deals. Well, now if we say it, now I got a 100 calls. Perfect. And then you think, well but those those 100 people, sure.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 30:38

They showed up on a call, but they were not the 100 people. They were, you know, they were people that, hey. Well, I'm thinking of starting a business. And so I had this idea. And so next spring, my aunt Sally and I are gonna do x y z.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 30:53

And so then then we would need bookkeeping. We would need bookkeeping then because, you know and and you think, okay. It was really nice to meet you, but this is not this is not. And so, you know, it needs to be the right people and then these process but, you know, if if you're consistently not meeting these you know, you're not solving these problems, then perhaps the the leads are also not not the best quality leads.

Greg Nutter: 31:19

Yeah. I've I've worked with a few lead generation companies, and, the latest one now is, you've you've probably seen this. Somebody connects with you on LinkedIn.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 31:30

Mhmm.

Greg Nutter: 31:30

Then they endorsement. Greg is really good at sales training, whatever. And then, hey, Greg. We do lead generation services. Right?

Greg Nutter: 31:42

The the gap is I didn't have a problem. Right? And and so they're pitching without understanding whether I Mhmm. And so in prospect, the analogy I like to use is it's it's like dancing. You you're gonna do 2 things.

Greg Nutter: 32:01

You're gonna sort of ask someone, are they interested in dancing? And are they able and willing to dance? So they, are you interested in dancing? I don't talk about my product. What I do is I hey.

Greg Nutter: 32:15

You know what? Hey, Dan. I know a lot of people struggle getting their initial, accounting system set up. Not sure if this is something that you're but if you are, I'd love to share how other people are are handling it. Done.

Greg Nutter: 32:32

Greg, we have no need in that area. Perfect. Next person. Right? Next person.

Greg Nutter: 32:38

So so I suggest a prominent opportunity. If there's interest, I have a lead. If, there's not Right.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 32:45

Because unless you have, you know, your service that solves their problem, if there is no problem, then ultimately, you really aren't gonna ever close anything because there's no mutual relationship there.

Greg Nutter: 32:59

Yeah. I I like to say, particularly b to b to b, without the context of a problem that someone has said they wanna solve or an opportunity they wanna capture, discussion of a product feature, company qualifications makes no sense. Who cares? Right? Right.

Greg Nutter: 33:16

It's only in that context that discussing the product feature makes any sense. You know, that is a starting point for a b to b sale. Tell me you have a problem that I can solve. And if not Right.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 33:32

So tell us a little bit more about your book. Where can we find it? What kind of information is is in there? What what can we expect?

Greg Nutter: 33:39

My book is called p three selling, the essentials of, sell. It's a fairly comprehensive book that talks about the strategies, best practices, processes, and a couple of tactics on how to do well in b two b sale. And I wrote it after, you know, delivering a lot of sales training and other people's concepts that people weren't using. Reading read a lot of books that people weren't using. And my last, fractional VP of sales for a company, I was looking at these people that were, oh, 30, 40s, fifties, and they were still making the same mistake.

Greg Nutter: 34:16

So I wanted something that was easy to understand, comprehend, easy, that people could take their selling to the next step. And it's great for, owners to pick up and go, you know, there's a couple of good ideas that I can take. So we've sold a couple thousand, in almost 20 countries. It's currently 4.9 out of 5 on Amazon, 4.7 in Goodreads. So got some really good, feedback on it that it resonates with people.

Greg Nutter: 34:50

It was written, you know, in the last couple of years, not the last 20, 30, 40, 50 years that a lot of sales books has. And it's really resonating. So, and we also run a workshop for people who want to come down and like apply it in their business. So we've done that. I'll tell you an engine.

Greg Nutter: 35:08

I had a call last year from, owner of a law firm who wanted me to run a workshop on the book, and I go, law firm? Never worked with a law firm before. They don't have selling in their title, but they need to influence prospects on why they're different, why they're better. They need to influence them on a particular strategy, on a different approach. And so he wanted his attorneys to go through foundational influencing training.

Greg Nutter: 35:37

So it's it's been, so you can get it on Amazon, Kindle. If you wanna read more about it, you can go to, p3selling.com. And,

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 35:47

and It's interesting. 1 of the around maybe 1 year into my business, someone reached out. You know, they were doing some work for a school paper, and they were talking about, you know, what do you feel like the most important skill is to be a business owner? And so we're talking, and we're going through, and they're asking me all these questions about my education and all these things, and they said, what do you think the most important sell skill is? And I said, sales.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 36:09

And they said, what do you mean? And I said, well, I said, unfortunately, unless you can sell your idea, you know, there's there's it's a nonstarter. So, you know, when you're talking about, you know, most people wouldn't think of of lawyers as as salespeople. And, you know, a lot of business owners would never say I'm a salesperson and and all of these types of things. But at the end of the day, you know, it doesn't really matter role you're in if you want people to change you know, make a decision that grows your business.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 36:38

You know, it really comes down to that word influence that you mentioned that that is super, super key. And some of the leading books, you know, in the in the scope of influencing people and whatnot, they they are very, very old and very valuable, but not very, very old. And so love love to get some fresh takes on the topic.

Greg Nutter: 36:58

Yeah. The a lot of people think of 3 parts of sales. The prospecting part that nobody likes at the beginning, the closing part that nobody likes at the end, and the cringe worthy behavior like that. Right? But but real b to b selling is consultative.

Greg Nutter: 37:16

And it's the, you know, creating awareness, influencing change, influencing perspectives. And it's a really high value that, you know, entrepreneurs really need to to take those great ideas that they have and get people to go, oh, yeah. That's pretty good.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 37:34

Absolutely. So, Greg, if if you had one tangible tip for a business owner to take and implement, I mean, lots of great value today. But if they had one thing that they just take and just implement, it would make a difference in their business, what would that be?

Greg Nutter: 37:50

We talked about it a lot, but I'll I'll change your perspective in almost all of your communications, whether it's your website, your call, whatever, to talking about solving problems and capturing opportunities and not about product and features. And that one change puts you instead of your arm wrestle or a product or feature or price decision, you're on the same side of the table with a client solving a problem. And that changes your perspective, their perspective of you, of your company, of the value. I've worked with a lot of small companies and I look at their website and it's all product, product, product, product. Change that.

Greg Nutter: 38:30

Start with what problems do you solve? Opportunities do you allow people to capture? And if they're interested in that, they'll look more about your products. Right? Right.

Greg Nutter: 38:40

If not, they don't care about the products. So that I think that's the one pivot that particularly entrepreneurs and new business, because they're so caught up in the product, that they love the product or the service. They know how great it is. But if they want other people to understand how great it is, they need to approve from the from the context of

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 39:02

here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Greg, where can people connect with you, follow you, learn more about what you do?

Greg Nutter: 39:10

Little place. So I mentioned p3selling.com tells you a lot about our our book and our, training, our programs, our podcast, which is, such as your it's Greg dash Nutter. So connect with me. I write a blog, sometimes once a week or every other week, or send me a note. Greg@p3sellingman.

Greg Nutter: 39:32

Happy to

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 39:33

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your valuable tips. You know, sales really is the lifeblood of any business. It ties them all together. Doesn't matter the industry.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 39:42

If you're here to make money, at the at the end of the day, you're gonna have to sell something along the way. And so it's a valuable discussion for people in all different phases, all different industries. So thank you so much for being here. We're all out of time for today, but the fun doesn't stop here. Make sure to subscribe to the Service Based Business Society podcast on your preferred podcast app.

Tiffany-Ann Bottcher: 40:01

If you're hanging out over on YouTube, search for Tiffany Ann Botcher. Your likes, shares, and reviews really do help the show. Until next time. Have a great week.