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The Wild Idea is an exploration of the intersection of wild nature and our own human nature. The hosts, Bill Hodge and Anders Reynolds, through conversations with experts and thought leaders will dive into the ways that humans have both embraced and impact the function and vitality of our remaining wild places.
TWI_001_IceBreaker
Sun, Mar 16, 2025 6:35PM • 41:31
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Wild Idea Podcast, wild nature, human nature, wilderness protection, climate change, policy makers, stewardship, public lands, environmental decision making, wilderness areas, humility, advocacy, ecosystems, resilient movement, podcast episodes.
SPEAKERS
Greg Aplet, Anders Reynolds, Nate Schweber, Bill Hodge, Hal Herring, Voiceover
Voiceover 00:00
The following is a production of wild idea media.
Bill Hodge 00:06
Well, a huge welcome to the wild idea podcast episode number one, what I think we'll probably call the icebreaker episode The wild idea podcast a place where we are going to be exploring that intersection between wild nature and our own human nature. Proud to host this. My name is Bill Hodge, and joined by dear friend and all around good dude. Andrew Reynolds, Oh,
Anders Reynolds 00:30
Hi, Bill. How are you? I'm good. How are you today? I'm doing good. Hey, do you know what they call a group of two or more middle aged white guys? No, what's that?
Bill Hodge 00:39
A podcast. So perfect. So what you're saying is we're a cliche.
Anders Reynolds 00:45
Well, I would put it like we were faded. This was from the moment we were born. This is where we were heading. It's it's Greek here.
Bill Hodge 00:52
And here we are doing our pre ordained mission again. We're excited to have you all join us here with the wild idea podcast. This is something that came up for us years ago, has been sort of sitting on the back burner, stewing, quite literally, came up on a on a prairie in southwest Montana. Is something that grew out of conversations that Anders and and I, along with some other friends, have been having about wild places and wilderness. And so today, on this episode, we're looking forward to sort of trying to set the framework of why we're here and why we hope you'll stick around. We'll start with the why. We'll talk a little bit here about why we're doing this podcast, why we think it's important. We'll get into the who, which is where. I hope we have a little fun. Anders and I are going to interview each other and try to explain who we are a little bit and why, why we want to do this, and why we think it's important, but what we individually bring to this. And then we're going to talk, in the end, the how, how this podcast is going to sort of go about exploring that intersection of wild nature and human nature. So you think we're ready to go?
Anders Reynolds 02:02
I think we're ready to go. I mean, you and I have been in the protection and stewardship business for a while, so the kind of questions that are going to come up are the kind of questions we've been asking ourselves for a long time. Where is the movement headed next? Is it still relevant? How's climate change going to impact these things. And you and I have been having these conversations for years on back roads and in back country cabins, and I'm looking forward to doing it here in public, talking to experts and policy makers and thinkers who have who've been thinking about the same thing, but who we may not have, actually, you know, have the time to learn from it might actually be fun to answer some of these questions while we're sober, too. That's
Bill Hodge 02:45
for sure. I was gonna say, well, try to do this as organically as those conversations in the in in the truck on the back road or out on the prairie, out here in Montana, but we may not be able to go all the way to fully organic. But variables, yeah, including, including large, large volumes of beer and campfires that we may or may not be able to keep under control. But I think it's, I think it's important to set the why, the why for me, hit hit me slowly, and then it hit me like a lightning bolt. There has been, as you mentioned, Anders, we're sort of our connection came from that. We both have worked in policy and legislation around wild places, specifically the American definition, legal definition of wilderness. We worked on a campaign together, as we have been on that journey. I know it's hit me, and I'm curious how it's hit you. The why, for me, comes from the range of pressures on wild places. Seems to be the range is growing. It used to be you could sort of count on those who were going to pick apart the idea of wilderness, if you will. But the range of those people picking it apart has changed a little bit, and that's a little bit of the why, to me is I want to explore what those pressures are, why those pressures exist, and maybe even the Why am I so hell bent on hanging on to my orthodoxy?
Anders Reynolds 04:09
That's exactly how I feel. I mean, wilderness, protection, stewardship has been my life's work, and the need for the movement to be reinvigorated is something I've been shouting about to anyone who will listen often, that's you on the other end of a phone. So I'm I'm glad we're finally having these conversations. I know they're about wild places, and there's lots of ways to define wild. Wild can be in your backyard. Wild can be in the most remote back country, but I've approached a lot of this just to ramble on for a second through the prism of wilderness and sort of reckoning with the idea that small w small w wilderness can be a myth, but big W wilderness, that legislative and legal concept you mentioned, can still be a really good tool for tackling exactly the kind of problem. Problems we're going to talk about
Bill Hodge 05:02
here. Yeah, it's, it's an incredibly important tool, and I hope we never lose that as a tool that's in the toolbox. I have grown to recognize it's not always the right tool, but it's not a tool that we can do without. It's, it's, it's the ultimate tool of humility, I think. And this is probably a good, a good place for us to explore this a little bit in this why we're doing this, we also recognize that we have, you know, a certain set of perspectives, and the way we're going to structure this exploration is probably having some people on who are going to challenge our perspective, perspectives on this. Because we, you know, we're pretty closely aligned. We really value that tool of Big W wilderness, but we also value the idea that wilderness is in the imagination and in the mind of the individual. And I think it's I think it's kind of really important for us to scratch at our own long held beliefs, because if nothing else, it'll make them stronger, right? I think that's
Anders Reynolds 05:59
right. I The Organic Act governing the designation management of all those big W public lands has some issues. The idea of a quote, unquote, untrammeled wilderness is so troubling and backward. It's something I have grappled with a lot. What's more attractive to me about that legislative framework is the ingredient of self denial involved in wilderness protection and stewardship, and maybe even self denial to go further in wildland protection and stewardship, how it requires us to fully reckon with our country's past transgressions and mismanagements human impacts the land, as well As protections invented to mitigate or encourage those impacts exist on a spectrum. I tend to think of wilderness as the spectral anchor on one side, rather than a line of demarcation where something like pristine exists on one side but not the other. And I think wildness is something that can transcend all that too. So I think I'm trying to say it's gonna be super interesting and fruitful to dig more deeply into that. And I believe wildness can be a great tool to address climate change, access biodiversity loss, but to do that, we have to build as resilient a movement as possible. And for me, that's what these conversations are about. Like having people listen, having them fall in love with the same things we're falling in love with, see them in a new way, and building a more resilient movement.
Bill Hodge 07:28
100% I think I agree with that idea that we're dealing with this anchor that that holds both of us to the ground with this idea of wilderness, but that we're also wanting to float out there and have the conversations that can help that and so while these will be a series of conversations, today is the conversation between you and I, our future episodes are conversations that you and I are having with amazing thought leaders. I also hope it stimulates a conversation for that larger community you talked about, that that we hope to continue to galvanize around the idea of of wildness is something that's worth hanging on to, whether it's through the federal tool of wilderness or other mechanisms, that it's something worth holding on to. Wildness exists in wildlife. So we're going to be talking to people who have a perspective of protecting, managing, dealing with the implications of humans living in close proximity to, let's say, large carnivores, for example, it exists in the framework of intact ecosystems wildness remain, probably more than anything, for me, remains this important anchor of humility. I keep going to keep going back to that word humility, like we don't always have the answer as a species, and when we think we are convinced that we have the right answer. It tends to come from our urgent needs of today, whether it's, you know, my interest as a recreationist and what it is that I want to do on the landscape, or whether it's my interest in what I think is appropriate for energy policy, for example. I mean, there's a lot of certainty that comes from our needs of today, but there is a certain amount of of certainty that we don't know of what our actions when we decide to step in and manipulate wildness that that I think become a problem.
Anders Reynolds 09:13
Couldn't say it better myself, but I want to have the last word, so I'll say out loud I agree with you, and I think it's important to get credit early on. If you heard that phone, that was Bill, not me, the true professional over here, you've actually managed
Bill Hodge 09:25
to learn this, this craft, very well. And I'm, I'm quite proud of you for that. So you think we, you think we framed up the why? Head up, why we're here, why we're wanting to do this.
Anders Reynolds 09:33
I think so. I think so.
Bill Hodge 09:37
So, as promised, we're going to move on to a part of this icebreaker episode where we're going to talk about the who, who we are a little bit more. We've obviously heard some of our opinions, and hopefully you'll find in future episodes, it's not really truly about us, though sometimes you may get confused. It's not about us, it's we want to bring in really smart guests, but today, we thought we'd let you get to know us a little bit. Some of you listening probably do know us. Well, some of you don't know us at all, and we thought One fun way to do that was to set each other up with our own set of questions that we don't know are coming. And I guess, should we do a coin flip? Who gets to go first? Who gets to ask the first question? That's
Anders Reynolds 10:14
a good idea. While you flip that coin, I'll explain to folks that you said, think of five questions. Half need to be serious and half need to be fun. So I have two and a half serious questions and two and a half fun questions. Well,
Bill Hodge 10:29
look at that. It landed on heads. So I get to go first and ask the first question. And I can't decide whether this is a serious question or or a fun question, but my first question for you, Anders, what's the book, movie or experience that had the biggest impact on how you see the natural world?
Anders Reynolds 10:49
That's a great question, Bill, and it's a very hard one to answer, because I tend to think of like the last thing I read or the last thing I watched as the most impactful, but something, something that I have right next to me during the podcast. I'll hold it up only you can see it is the book The Wake by Paul kings north, which I would recommend to anyone. It's about a specific moment in history where not only the political system, the systems of power that have existed, are changing, but where the protagonist notices that even some of the things that were true about the land are changing and changing in ways that are scary, but also sort of in ways that he's, he's powerless to stop and I think sometimes I feel that way too. And it's, it's not really. You may think, well, they're, they're making an argument one way or the other. There's definitely an argument in there. And anybody can pull a thread and find an argument and a really good piece of literature, but it's also almost agnostic about what's happening to its own protagonist, because I think that's what's happening in the real world now, like there are forces at play that are hard for individuals to shape, and it's going to take coordination and effort and really good podcasts to fight that sort of thing. So I recommend it to anybody who wants to read it again. It's called the Wake by Paul kings north.
Bill Hodge 12:27
Well, you've recommended this book to me before. You know, 100% honesty I couldn't you have to learn to read the book. Is that the way you would put it, it's written in something that resembles English, but it's not exactly, I think my laziness, I didn't fight through it enough, and this was a good reminder that I need to fight through that.
Anders Reynolds 12:45
It's a book that, if you spend an hour or two right at the front getting used to the way it's written, it will pay extreme dividends. It will suddenly become a new language in your head, which is also like a theme of our work, right? Like it's it's training your brain until something breaks loose and you think of something a new way. And yeah, highly recommended, good one like that. Answer, great. My turn. Right? Your turn. Okay, I know you and your better half, Laura, you're much better, half better than than most people, and I think you're both pretty great. Can you talk about how the two of you live the values supported by this podcast?
Bill Hodge 13:34
That's a good question. So my wife, Laura, and I have been lifelong lovers of the outdoor world before we met each other, and certainly in our 33 years as a married couple, and eventually, we decided to live that passion Out Loud and got involved in protecting our, you know, sort of the classic NIMBY thing. We got involved in protection of our backyard when we lived in the southern Appalachians in South deep Southeast Tennessee. And I mean, deep Southeast Tennessee, and but we had no idea where that journey was going to take us. And, you know, it ultimately led to us being involved in a legislative campaign that, before we got involved, had no idea what that process looked like, and in no small part, because of you, learned how to do that work. And then turned that, that passion into actually, not only wanting to stand up to protect a place, but realizing that those places still need to be stewarded. It involves having a love enough of the place that you're willing to put your blood, sweat and tears into the care of that place, even if we want to do it from a place of humility. And so we lived that through. Mean birth to an organization called Southern Appalachian wilderness stewards, or saw us as everybody came to know it. But I think the way we live those values is the the people that came into our lives through that remain in our lives to this day, because we value the people that the connection to wild places have brought into our life and and the ways in which they remain in our life and and we live that today. We don't live in Southeast Tennessee anymore. We We live in Montana, and we try to live that here too, and we try to, you know, make the best decisions we can to support the commons that that these wild places provide us. The public lands are our Commons, and we try to not think about, what do we get from being able to protect these places, but rather, what does the larger community get from that? And it's just, it's just returned incredible dividends to us in our lives, mostly with the people that we get to surround ourselves with, including our relationship with you. I mean, the three of us really kind of got to work as a team in the end there, along with a lot of other amazing individuals on this Tennessee wilderness campaign that we were part of, and you brought this expertise and this level of thinking from that DC perspective, where you still reside, to those of us who are like living in a community of 320 people in the mountains of Southeast Tennessee, and it's been those people that have helped us live those values. So good question, good
Anders Reynolds 16:30
answer. And I should say the reverse is true too. I mean, when I was starting my career in DC, I was very much a parachute conservationist, like drop in, draw a line around a place, and say, job done. And it was really you and Laura that taught me, like the job's not nearly done. The place has got to be stewarded. It's got to be cared for. You've got to build a community, protect it. And so I have. I've benefited a lot from you too, but,
Bill Hodge 16:57
yeah, you stepped up and also leaned into that perspective with us, and ultimately ended up serving on the board of that nonprofit saws that I mentioned and put put a large number of years into making sure that that is still a healthy organization to this day. And for that, I say thank you so moving on, maybe just sort of break the bromance here a little bit. I mean, though we are this cliche of a couple middle aged white dudes, though we do have a fairly significant different difference in age, we are incredibly different people. I would say, Anders, you are a brand unto yourself. I'm curious what's the most on brand thing you've ever done that, that you would just go, Yep, that was totally on brand for Anders,
Anders Reynolds 17:46
I know what you want me to say, sure that I know the answer you're looking for and defying expectations. I'm gonna give it to you. My instinct is to not give it to you, but I'm gonna give it to you, the most on brand thing that ever happened to me was appearing on and getting my ass beat on Jeopardy. Hmm,
Bill Hodge 18:13
that is, you know, I guess that maybe was in the back of my mind thinking of that question. But if I remember you telling that story, your your answer for why you performed, what's the word I'm looking for poorly? Was the button? Is that right? Was it the button that you have to push to ring in?
Anders Reynolds 18:34
Yeah, it was. It was a combination of factors. It was the button to let people behind the curtain. They film a week's worth of Jeopardy in one day. And I drew a straw to be filmed in the last episode of the day, and the champion from like the week before came back and killed contestants through the first four episodes. So I just got to sit there and watch this buzz saw dominate, and I just, I started to get the feeling I was just waiting my my turn, like I lamb to the slaughter. And then, yeah, I had some trouble with the button. There's a lot, a lot of it has to do with timing. I don't want to blame all of it on timing. There was a question that went unanswered about Beyonce that I am, like, devastated I blanked on at the time. It still like haunts me to this day. Anyway, it, I'm not gonna tell people the year, but I will say it aired on Halloween and it that's appropriate, because it was an absolute blood bath.
Bill Hodge 19:34
Well, there's a part of me that wants to say that that's not on brand for you, because I will say you're one of the smartest people I know well,
Anders Reynolds 19:41
not to No, I'm not agreeing with that statement. What's on brand is that I managed to get to Jeopardy. I should feel proud about that, and then I flamed out.
Bill Hodge 19:55
You know, it's the only thing holding you back from that genius designation, right? Is that. That that failed attempt on Jeopardy. All right, cheer go. Okay, let's
Anders Reynolds 20:05
see where we want to go next. How about this? If you won the lottery and didn't tell anyone, what are the signs that would allow your friends and family to know something had changed? Probably
Bill Hodge 20:21
the volume of lenses in my camera cabinet. That's sort of hard to say, because there's already way too many lenses, but that's just, I think, from a young age, I have been a gearhead and the worst hobby slash semi profession to fall into, if you're a gearhead, frankly, is photography. There is always the lens you don't have that you have to have, and if you just had that one lens, you could frame up that one shot. So I think if I won the lottery but didn't tell anybody, the easiest way to know that would be, would be that there would be a volume of lenses beyond the ability for one human to ever use in my lens cabinet, because you wouldn't be able to tell through my wardrobe, because I would still be wearing Carhart hoodies, and I would still drive the truck that I drive. But I think it would, I think that would probably come through to the volume of lenses in that cabinet that surprise you, that anything what you expected.
Anders Reynolds 21:28
No, I don't think I had an expectation. And hearing you say that I'm sort of nodding along you and you and Laura aren't just gear heads. They're really accomplished photographers. I have some framed photos that you've taken for me that I could probably sell for really good money. I mean, you guys know what you're doing. Well, it's
Bill Hodge 21:46
something that we we decided to take seriously. There's a There's an old joke in the world of photography, which is the only difference between an amateur and a professional is a is the size of the trash can, or in the modern world, it would be the size of the deleted files. Because good photography is mostly in the ability to self edit what is not a good photograph and what is a good photograph. But we do, we do see it as a craft that we spend time on. I think we live in a world where everybody thinks they're a photographer, and frankly, the tools are out there for everybody to take incredible images, if they're willing to see the light and tell the story with the image, but thanks. Thank you for that. It's something that we really, we really love doing.
Anders Reynolds 22:25
You've got a great eye. Yeah, I feel like when I have a good photo, it's just because I'm willing to deal in bulk and take like 300 shots of the same thing, and one of them somehow turns out good.
Bill Hodge 22:35
It all works. It all works. Another question for you now my turn is, what does it mean to you when you go through those security lines to get into one of those Capital office buildings like do mentally? Do you you've been on the Hill for so long? For those of you don't know, Andrew's Day job is as a federal policy professional on the hill, working for southern Environmental Law Center, but and, but you've been on the Hill for other organizations through the years. Is it just like how anybody else would approach a job? Does it eventually not enter your mind that you're literally in what, what are referred to as the halls of power as you work on Capitol Hill? What's that? What's that mental shift like when you walk through this metal detectors and you're in there going into an office on Capitol Hill.
Anders Reynolds 23:26
Well, until very, very recently. I mean, I've always been a hill rat. I've always believed in like, Congress is my thing. I've always enjoyed following interactive in Congress more than the administration. Some of that is, is, is sort of centered in my belief that, like, legislation is more enduring than administrative action, though administrative action is becoming more and more important, I think, in modern life, and so I've always had a sort of admiration for Congress that might be changing now, and I don't get into that at the moment, but I, yeah, I try to force myself to still have that awe when you walk through the Capitol dome to say like you've got a few seconds to look up and remind yourself where you Are. My advice to folks who want to come here and advocate for themselves, or clean air or clean water, or their big backyard, or whatever is, you got 435, members of the house. You have 100 senators. That's 535, offices. You can't think of them as just plug and play offices and use the same strategy. The best way I've been able to find to explain to folks how you got to think of it is, it's it's 535 small businesses you utilize in your in your personal life, small businesses all the time. Some of them are. Well run. Some of them are not so well run. Some of them have a boss that's there all the time and is the one greeting you at the front door. Some of them are run by really talented staff, and the boss seems totally out to lunch. Some of them really care what like their trade union thinks, or their party thinks. In this case, some of them don't. Some of them do what they think is best for their business and their business only, and it's your job, when you get up there, to figure out which small business you're talking to and the best way to get the job done. And so I kind of use that in my head all the time. I hope I haven't gotten lazy about being like, it's just another meeting. I can just hit the same old talking points. I want to believe. I think I am, I hope I am still thinking about offices as individual entities, and building good relationships with members and their staff, and trying to get to yes. A lot of my job, I say a lot, is I'm trying to get to yes. I don't want to hear a no. I want to find a way forward that makes us both happy, and I guess maybe I should shut up. But just to go on a little bit further, I found that, like, especially with wilderness, there's a style of lobbying where an advocate will go in and say wilderness is good, and the office will be like, well, we heard wilderness is bad, and those are ideological perspectives. You're never going to agree that. Well, if I think it's good and you think it's good and you think it's bad, we're not gonna get in the middle and be like, it's okay. But instead, you go inside and say, Hey, we have a vision for the protection of a certain area, and it's this, do you have a vision? And then you allow that person be like, we actually do have a vision for the protection, and it's this, you'll find out that you probably actually agree on how the area should be protected for the most part. I mean, you're gonna have 90% agreement, and then it's just figuring out the margins. And so moving away from sort of, like, the ideological yes and no, and tinkering with, like, what are the actual specifics? Is, is how I approach it, and I think that helps to keep it fresh, to like, what's the newest thing? What? What is this community facing? What's the new problem this community is facing? What are like the new political facts on the ground that may have changed, like thinking from last time I was in here, I'm not sure I answered your question, but I answered a question. Well,
Bill Hodge 27:12
you answered the question in such a way as we could take that answer and use it as a webinar to help you know grassroots advocates who don't know how to approach their, let's say their first trip to Washington, DC. I mean, it's helped that language I think you used, you know, 20 years ago on me, as Laura and I were coming to the Hill to work on the Tennessee wilderness bill. I think it's such a great way to think about it, as those 535, small businesses who have their own deal. But most importantly, you also sort of lift something from my career in sales of no is just a step towards Yes. Like you, you don't just go in. You say, I need you to do X. They say, No, and the transactions over it is literally just the first step in the process. And so I think that was a great answer, because it was a lesson that people could take from how they go be an advocate on the hill, and you don't have to live and work for one of the organizations in DC to do that if you have something you're passionate about in your backyard. And it also doesn't mean showing up at their office. It's on the hill. It could be their office. It's in your community too, and think about it that way. So Great answer. You're reminding
Anders Reynolds 28:21
me of something I think I've learned from you, and I've learned it during your work on on conservation campaigns, but maybe you learned it in your former career and media and sales, but that, like, yeah, like you said, no, that's just data. Like, every answer is just data. Like, use the data.
Bill Hodge 28:38
Yep, I love that way of thinking about it is it's just information, and information is power, even if the information is not what you hope to get, you got information, and you can use it to turn that into the next step. So you're up next. All
Anders Reynolds 28:52
right. What do I want to ask? How about this? Other than the one you have right now? What's the worst haircut you've ever had, I
Bill Hodge 29:04
think I have a great haircut. In the latter years of my college career. I 100% had a mullet. It was full on, you know, business in front, party in the back, kind of thing. And at the time, they weren't called mullets. But when I occasionally run into a photograph from that era, yeah, it was. It was full on mullet, I think I may have, well, no, this. This picture is from my high school senior. This is a pretty bad haircut. This is the audience isn't going to see this, but this is when my hair was parted in the middle. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was the mullet. So that was a simple one. Our listeners won't know this, but now they will. I would like to hear you explain your fascination with Hannibal.
Anders Reynolds 29:58
Oh, God. How much time we have?
Bill Hodge 30:01
Not enough, for sure, but, but try to give us the Cliff Notes version of your love for Hannibal.
Anders Reynolds 30:06
Okay, I could go on and on. I could not, I guess I should say up at the top bill is talking about Hannibal barca, the Punic general, not Hannibal, whatever his name is, the cannibal. What's that guy's last name? Hannibal Lecter. Hannibal Lecter, we're not talking about Hannibal Lecter. We're talking about Hannibal Barca. Hannibal barca, who was probably the only person until the fall of the Roman Empire that could have theoretically brought it to its knees. And it is such a fascinating counterfactual to think about a Mediterranean that had been built around Carthage in Northern Africa instead of Rome and Italy. And maybe it wouldn't worked out that way. And I'm sure if there's any nerdy history buffs listening, they're gonna think, well, that was a mercantile Empire. It wouldn't have worked the same way. And you're right. Hannibal is such a fascinating character from such a fascinating time. It's so specific. And he's a military genius. He probably won the most famous battle of all time, The Battle of Kenai, where he invented a double envelopment of someone else's army. And he's he's so quotable. He has so many quotes. A favorite of mine that keeps me going from day to day is, if I cannot find a way, then I shall make a way. I tell myself that all the time, maybe he was like the original guy to think, Well, no, it's just data. If I can't find a way, I'll make a way. The story that reminds me of you is that the night before a big battle, Hannibal and some of his generals were standing on a slight rise in the earth and and they were looking over into the enemy's camp, and for as far as the eye could see Roman encampments, fires, tents, horses, people getting ready for the next day, polishing their armor, making sure they were fed, etc, etc. And one of his lieutenants, gisco said something to the to the something they sent of look at all those men. How are we supposed to win in the face of all that? And Hannibal said, take another look in that whole multitude, there's not one disc go, meaning he'd rather have this guy on his side than the entire multitude. And I think about that, Bill and the entire multitude, there's not one bill Hodge, except for you, and I'm glad to be on the podcast with you.
Bill Hodge 32:33
Well, the feeling is mutual, my friends, you think we should probably end it there. I mean, I don't know if we got Whoa,
Anders Reynolds 32:39
whoa, whoa. You got five questions and I got four. Okay, well, let's, let's go on. You can answer it fast. How about that? Yeah, all right, sounds good. Okay, I got a good one tomorrow. You wake up as a senator from the great state of Montana, yep, what one aspect of our political system would you improve or change in order for our country to make better environmental decision making, and which wilderness area would you insist be renamed for me?
Bill Hodge 33:11
So the first part of the question, remind me, it was, what's the one? I mean, I get, I'm now a senator from the state of Montana, yeah, what is one aspect
Anders Reynolds 33:21
of our political system that you would improve in order for our country to make better environmental decisions? I think
Bill Hodge 33:27
the one thing I would do as as that Senator would be to lean into relationships across the aisle and educate other members of the chamber about why wilderness was an important enough value that our country passed a law in 1964 and we have so many people who value those places, whether they were protected in 64 or all the laws that came since that expanded that system, everybody had a reason why They were connected to those places, because it's easy for some members of the political community to to lean into the all the things that they hear from constituents that they don't like. Oh, I can't get to do this in this place because of this law, or I don't get to extract this resource because of this law, but rather, have them hear the stories of what made people stand up, you know, leading up to 1964 or made them stand up for the bill that, you know, created the Anaconda pen or wilderness, or, you know, those, I think, having those conversations, those real conversations, about why the places matter, how they function Today, in the second half your question, what's the one wilderness area that I would immediately read? Does it have to be in Montana that I renamed that wilderness? And no, gosh, that's a that's a good question. I think I would, as you know, I think you've asked me this question. As you know, I hate the idea of naming wilderness areas after people, though I value more than anything else, the Bob Marshall wilderness. And I'm a huge nerd for Bob Marshall. I think I would probably want to rename the mark trail wilderness, because nobody knows who Mark trail was unless you're very old. He was a cartoon character, sort of a Daniel Boone cartoon character. And I would name that the Anders Reynolds wilderness, because you're a modern day cartoon character. Well, Dodd, I think that's the WHO part of our icebreaker episode here. So we're gonna move on to the how, and we'll be pretty quick about this, but you know, this is going to be an ongoing series. This is first season. Is going to be 16 episodes of the wild idea, and we hope to bring a range of perspectives on how humans relate to the wild, from scientists to advocates, from the values of recreation in wild places to the indigenous relationship of what we call public lands today, but for eternity, has simply been called home. And we're going to do this journey through conversations and coming up. You know, we have some really great episodes that we're we're certainly excited about in the episodes ahead, you're going to hear us explore the challenges and opportunities around our human connection to these wild places. And while we try to take a long view of our human relationship with all the wild that remains, we live in a time that we just can't ignore current headlines, headlines that seem to rhyme with history, and we explored that in an upcoming episode with the journalist and author Nate Schweber,
Nate Schweber 36:38
the 1000s of people that turned out to the entrances of national parks just yesterday, with there is a secret plot to say, let's sell off national parks. You know, that would be massively unpopular. That would trigger a huge backlash. That's what happened in the 1940s by simply exposing it, Bernard devoto triggered that backlash. He fused that explosion. So that was the first big environmental battle that he fought, and that's how he won it, by finding this secret, unpopular thing and letting the people know about it. We
Anders Reynolds 37:12
also had enlightening conversation with another journalist and the host of podcast and blast, Hal herring, and his perspective of what public lands mean to our society, I have
Hal Herring 37:23
come to believe that these lands represent a kind of soul of America, and the soul of the American dream and the soul of like as important as the Declaration of Independence. This is not something any more than I would surrender the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We cannot let this descent into plutocracy, Kleptocracy, whatever we call it, divest us of this treasure also
Bill Hodge 37:54
coming up. We plumb the depths of frankly, our own deeply held beliefs and mental frameworks about what is wild, what is natural, with the forest ecologist Greg applet,
Greg Aplet 38:04
but all of that is based on the, you know, if you want to to sustain the ecosystem that exists, that is based on an assumption that the factors that gave rise to that system will continue to exist. And you know, you can think of, think of a pretty short list of things that affect the nature of an ecosystem, and one of those big things is climate. So as the climate changes, we can expect the nature of ecosystems to change. And in some of those cases, we're gonna in some cases, when that happens, we're gonna lose some of the things that we care about, and if we want to hold on to those things, we're gonna have to kind of make up for it with our own human energy.
Anders Reynolds 38:51
And coming up in the weeks and months ahead, we're gonna visit with wildlife ecologist, author and poet, Dr drew Lanham, grizzly bear management specialist Tim Manley birder and policy expert Karina Newsom and author David gasner, just to name a few. Yeah,
Bill Hodge 39:07
we're certainly excited to have you join us. We have plans for what comes after this first season of 16 episodes. We're planning on diving deep into places like the South. We're looking forward to going into the vastness of Alaska and even doing deep profiles of individuals in places that make sort of wilderness hum in the 21st century. There are a lot of things you can do to join us on this journey. We'd love for you to sign up for our newsletter at the wild idea.com while you're there, there is also a place for you to submit somebody you think we ought to talk to, or a topic we ought to cover and share that you can follow us obviously, on the socials. You can find the wild idea podcast on Facebook. You can find us on blue sky. You can find at wild idea pod on. Instagram. We hope to have an ongoing conversation there, because even though this is Conversations enters between you and I and our guests that we're gonna have this first season, we also hope it's a conversation we have across the country and someday across the globe, right? That's
Anders Reynolds 40:15
absolutely right. I'm really looking forward to what comes next. Well, we're
Bill Hodge 40:19
excited to have you all join us. We appreciate you joining us for this icebreaker episode. Maybe have a little feel for what's coming up. They won't all look like this. Going forward, you'll be hearing a lot from other people instead of as much as you've had to hear from us. But hopefully you'll find that Anders and I enjoy doing this together, even if our relationship is built on mutual love of sarcasm and giving each other non stop grief,
Anders Reynolds 40:41
I'm excited we'll see you down the trail, Bill, see you down the trail.
Bill Hodge 40:45
See you next time.
Voiceover 40:49
The wild idea is a production of wild idea media and hosted by Bill Hodge and Anders Reynolds. Production and editing by Brent Russell at podlad Digital support by Holly wilkoszewski at Digital day pack, our theme music Spring Hill Jack is from railroad Earth and was composed by John ski hand, our executive producer and ring leader as Laura Hodge. You can find the wild idea wherever you listen or download your favorite podcast. If you have a minute, take a minute to give us a rating, and if you really like us, we hope you'll subscribe. Learn more about us at the wild idea.com you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai