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This podcast is focused on challenges that are routinely encountered by men aged 50 - 70, but
not often discussed. Although targeted to them, this is also applicable to older / younger men
who are looking for ways to age differently, as well as the women that are involved in their lives.
Stress, relationships, male friendships, diet, mindfulness, aging with vitality and dying are just
some of the many topics that are covered. A rotating series of guest speakers join the podcast
to provide insights and wisdom relating to other relevant topics such as EMF radiation,
emotional intelligence, mindfulness and hair health.
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Unknown
Background music
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Peter
Hello and welcome each and every one of you to our podcast. 50 to 70. Meaningful conversations between men. We want to welcome the audience. I'm here with my co-host, Darius Naigamwalla. My name is Peter Callin. And, hopefully you've listened to some of our earlier podcasts. Today we have a challenging topic to talk about. Challenging for any of us who have parents.
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Peter
Parents who are aging. So our topic today is aging parents.
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Peter
Darius, how are you? What do you want our audience to prepare for as we spend these next 20 to 30 minutes? Where would you like to bring their focus? Yeah, I.
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Darius
Think there's two things that we need to cover as we're going through this. One is the logistics and all of the practical requirements that are associated with aging parents. And the second thing are the emotional dynamics that come into play. But I was talking to a friend of mine, Dave. He's got extensive experience in the senior care space.
00;01;15;23 - 00;01;37;25
Darius
And he gave me a great quote that I think summarizes what is going on really well, which is aging parents just like having children. The difference is that when you're having children and you're raising them, you're raising them to be independent and capable of standing on their own. Yes. With aging parents, you're managing the loss of their independence.
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Darius
And I'll say that again, you're managing the loss of their independence. And that's why you need to have both those logistical, practical accommodations put in place, as well as be prepared that you're going to go through some emotional manifestations that you may or may not have been anticipating.
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Peter
Yes, I agree.
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Darius
So when you're in your 50s, let's talk about the logistics that are required and the importance of having those conversations with your parents about what their wishes and their desires are. Did you have those conversations early with your mom?
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Peter
I tried, and, with some success. Okay. Was able to get her to, you know, do some of the things that need to be done in the event that she can't make the decisions for her. So. Yeah. In particular will, you know, and I also had some responsibilities for her, financial investment. And so we did some planning there so that she could have resources as she aged.
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Peter
But still, even with all of that, there was one thing that couldn't be anticipated. And, it created difficulties later, but we did do some planning.
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Darius
Yeah. And I think the the planning that you alluded to, the will. Power of attorney.
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Peter
Yes.
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Darius
Bank accounts.
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Peter
Yes.
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Darius
Where assets are. Where other important documents are. All of those basic dotting i's and crossing t's so that when the time comes, you're not left scrambling. You're not unaware that there's an obligation of debt that needs to be satisfied. You are aware of what their wishes were?
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Peter
Yes.
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Darius
Right. Where they want to have their final resting place be, they are taken care of and you don't have to worry while you're processing that emotion of them passing with all of the logistics, which can be overwhelming.
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Peter
They are. But I'll I'll share my own experience with what's really overwhelming is staying current with whatever you've put in place. And I'll give you my own personal experience of for instance, I didn't know my mother rewrote her will. Things happened where and we still don't have explanations where joint accounts that had been set up got disjointed, for lack of a better word.
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Peter
This, disconnected. And, as I said, the one shocker was that, in the midst of these changes to what had been set up in a much more planned and controlled way, my mother started using losing her cognitive abilities so we couldn't have the discussions we'd had earlier in my 50s, as I approach 60s and beyond.
00;05;07;06 - 00;05;40;21
Peter
It was just it wasn't part of her capability. And that's something that, if I'm to share anything with our audience, is that you set these things up. You're talking about the logistics and yes, so important. But once you do to stay on top of them, stay current and to also anticipate, a shock like this is not so much unfair, untenable anymore, where parents are suffering dementia or Alzheimer's and losing their cognitive abilities as part of aging, or it's an accepted part of aging, let's put it that way.
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Darius
Challenge that.
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Peter
One. Yeah, we we do. You and I do in our conversations and in the episodes that we've done. But it is a fact. It is a reality. And I think we, owe it to our audience to bring it to their attention.
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Darius
You know, I think I agree with everything you're saying. I think we need to ask the question, why aren't people in their 50s having these conversations with their parents.
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Peter
Or they're difficult conversations?
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Darius
They are.
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Peter
And just in terms of the privacy of another adult, what's less, your parent with whom you have relationships decades long and judgments and emotions, the conversations are extremely difficult.
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Darius
They are.
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Peter
And sometimes parents don't choose to engage and they still treat you. And view you as a child, even though you're a fully mature adult.
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Darius
Lots of reasons to avoid this one. Guilt right on either side. The fear you're looking into the future and you're talking about their passing. This anger over issues that days, weeks, months, years, decades, potentially their resentment. Man, I love that quote about resentment. It's like drinking poison and hoping the other person's going to die. But there's so much that needs to be discussed.
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Darius
You need to discuss where do you want to age? Do you want to age at home? Do you want to go to a retirement center? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both? What's important to you? Going back to episode on purpose, where's your purpose? How do we continue to infuse purpose as you age? What activities do you want to do?
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Darius
When is the sign? Because if you losing your cognitive function that you need to be moved. Is it a fall? Is it when something catastrophic happens? Are there little signs before something bad happens? A really emotional subject. The financial situation you're now having a parent sharing their finances with the child.
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Peter
Yeah.
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Darius
Right. Which is has just emotional complications abound from those conversations. The legal documents that we talked about and then joint account. So there's just so many different nuances of this conversation that need to take place. And you're right. Once it documents updated it will continue to need to be updated.
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Peter
You got to check it.
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Darius
You do every 2 to 3 years to make sure nothing has changed. So when we're talking about this, let's talk about briefly the what could go wrong. If you don't have these conversations.
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Peter
A lot of things could.
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Darius
Yeah. We don't just spend hours on this one.
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Peter
Yeah. The I think the highlighted things that could go wrong normally are in the area of, the financial and, you know, the, the capacity, the ability to, to fund decisions that may have to be taken that weren't planned for some, like, you know, many of the realities of adulthood and our finances, sometimes there are unexpected expenses.
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Darius
Yes.
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Peter
But in the case of aging parents, these are expenses you can plan for. You could anticipate. Make sure there are enough funds set aside if you have the capacity to set funds aside. So things that could go wrong is that, you know, you don't have enough money to pay for the accommodations that you would prefer. Your parent would prefer to be able to, to have as their their living situation as they age.
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Peter
And in that case, a plan for what the backup is is also kind of important.
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Darius
Yeah, I think about it. The hamster in my head can get going on this one. Someone who is losing their cognitive abilities could be taken advantage of by an unscrupulous individual, and find themselves out a significant amount of money. They could find themselves living in a situation that they don't want to live in, because the resources aren't available for other options.
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Darius
Or. And I've seen this one happen far too many times after the passing, the will isn't clear. Or maybe it is, and the siblings battle amongst each other over the estate, and the only person who wins in that situation. Obviously, are the lawyers that are representing each. But then you think about the emotional damage that is being done to the family.
00;10;42;15 - 00;10;43;29
Darius
Yeah. On that passing.
00;10;44;05 - 00;11;09;29
Peter
Yeah, you actually interjected something that I was thinking, but not at the time of the reading of the will. How about before when you're with your siblings and other family members trying to agree on what would be the best care accommodation for your aging parent? You know, siblings won't always agree. And so in terms of things you might not anticipate, you might anticipate you're going to have.
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Peter
And a lot of this will reflect the history of the family and the interactions.
00;11;16;00 - 00;11;39;14
Darius
Oh it all comes to bear. It absolutely does. But the fact that you might not be aligned with your siblings and there is no way to to define it. Yeah, there's one thing I will say. There's no right answer here. There's no playbook. Every individual situation is unique, and every individual situation is going to require that thoughtful approach.
00;11;39;21 - 00;11;42;06
Peter
Yeah. Well, I think that's been a common theme in our.
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Darius
IT has.
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Peter
Podcast is we're not suggesting how or what to fix or rescue because we don't know our audience is particular individual or or or family situation. And you and I, I believe, truly honor and respect the uniqueness and specialness of each of our.
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Darius
Of.
00;12;05;10 - 00;12;07;16
Peter
Every audience members. Yes.
00;12;07;18 - 00;12;15;18
Darius
So normally we have a call to action at the end, but this is one of those episodes where we're going to put two call to actions, and then this one.
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Peter
Forth.
00;12;16;08 - 00;12;43;05
Darius
Right at the start. If you haven't started this dialog with your parents yet, start the dialog with your parents and you can make it simple. Where is your will? Do you have a will? Who is your power of attorney? Who is your health care proxy? When was your will updated? To Peter's point, if it was written in 1990, it needs to be updated to reflect where they are at right now.
00;12;43;07 - 00;12;55;08
Darius
Start the dialog. Because Peter's point is apt. If there is a major event or a loss of mental acuity, you're not going to be able to have these conversations.
00;12;55;11 - 00;13;09;05
Peter
Yeah, and we mentioned mental acuity. But you and I have talked about physical and so aging. Also, if you're not taking care sometimes result results in diseases or.
00;13;09;07 - 00;13;11;07
Darius
Things can go fast. Yeah.
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Peter
Disability that was not anticipated. Yeah.
00;13;15;14 - 00;13;53;04
Darius
Agreed. So let's switch gears. Let's talk about the emotional dynamics that go on with aging parents, because I think my hypothesis is the aging parent brings up a plethora of dynamics, conscious and subconscious. They could be all the way back from childhood. They could be brought to the surface. And as a result, when you're having the conversation with siblings, with the parent, they need to be approached with love, empathy, kindness and compassion.
00;13;53;07 - 00;13;54;12
Peter
So true.
00;13;54;15 - 00;14;17;17
Darius
And I'm going to say, you know, this is one of those ones where I'm trying to practice what I preach. I don't always do it, but I found that when I approach it that way, I'm putting myself in my mom's shoes. How is she feeling? What she thinking? It's easier. So from the position of the elderly parent, what do you think is going on in their head?
00;14;17;18 - 00;14;23;07
Darius
How are they feeling? What is driving their reactivity or their responsiveness?
00;14;23;10 - 00;14;45;17
Peter
Again, I can't speak for majority or all, maybe for any other, elderly person parent, but I will say that not that it could lead to unexpected emotions.
00;14;46;17 - 00;15;26;20
Peter
I will say, and this could be debated, that, it will surface, long buried emotions from the childhood, because that's the nature of our. Relationship with our parents. And maybe down the road, we'll have a an episode on parenting and parents. But when you reach that stage where now your children who you raised to independence as we opened up at the very beginning, are now challenging your independence.
00;15;26;20 - 00;15;28;10
Peter
It stirs all kinds of emotions.
00;15;30;10 - 00;15;56;26
Peter
Fear, anger, worry, doubt, all the things you had mentioned that in a way that now it's very raw, you know, it's very real now. And maybe that's sometimes why the elderly aging parent doesn't want to have the conversation. Because they have no experience with handling these emotions, discussing these emotions, being mindful of these emotions.
00;15;57;02 - 00;16;05;26
Darius
And those are powerful, powerful emotions because they are associated with their own mortality that is being discussed.
00;16;05;27 - 00;16;16;06
Peter
Yeah. Yeah. No one wants to talk about their vulnerability to begin with. But now we're talking about the final vulnerability, which is death.
00;16;16;08 - 00;16;43;24
Darius
And I think that point you raised about the patterns coming back. The parent knows you and has exerted varying levers to raise you, to guide you and to, don't use want to use the word but to control you? Yes. Emotional. Physical? Yes. Mental. Financial. Those levers aren't there because you're not a 12 year old boy or girl anymore.
00;16;43;26 - 00;16;58;23
Darius
You're now a fully grown, functioning adult, but they're still going to pull those levers. And unless you're mindful, you're going to pull the lever in response because you have been conditioned over decades that this is the dance the two of you have. Yeah.
00;16;58;26 - 00;17;02;11
Peter
And we need to point out that conditioning. It's not conscious.
00;17;02;13 - 00;17;05;25
Darius
No it's not. It's absolutely it's not intentional.
00;17;05;25 - 00;17;17;12
Peter
That's not what's going on here. But if you practice part of what we've been sharing over the weeks, paying attention, more awareness, you'll notice, oh, this is very familiar to me.
00;17;17;12 - 00;17;19;02
Darius
And,
00;17;19;05 - 00;17;37;21
Peter
Maybe you'll choose how you're going to react or are you going to be responsive now, especially in a moment. So critical, so important where you need to be balanced and neutral, not, not combative or or not without compassion kind.
00;17;37;21 - 00;17;58;10
Darius
But it's tough from the perspective of the child. And, you know, I'm going through this. You've been through this. It's not a feeling, but you're confused because you don't know exactly what to do or there's no right answer. It's not like, you know, I cut myself. I need to go to the doctor. You're angry. There's a lot of different reasons why you could be angry.
00;17;58;14 - 00;18;29;11
Darius
You're afraid. You're. You could be grief stricken, right? You're processing that chunk of grief. There could be guilt. It could be anxiety. So from the perspective of the child, it's not easy to initiate that dialog either. And it's far easier to not. So when I you guys all know by now that I'm a bit of a surfer and when I'm out on the water, this guy that I go surfing with all the time, we have a saying and it's ignorance is bliss.
00;18;29;13 - 00;18;49;20
Darius
Until blammo. Blammo usually isn't very pleasant thing. Oh, how's that wave look? I don't know, I'm going to go for it. And you look over your shoulder and there's this monster about to break on you. Ignorance is bliss. And then blammo. So what we're trying to say here is start having those conversations now.
00;18;49;22 - 00;18;55;09
Peter
Yes. Yeah. And how?
00;18;55;12 - 00;19;38;04
Peter
I would like to be helpful in, in this in light of these emotions that are so raw and so powerful is to help the audience, if they're experiencing this, to acknowledge, be aware of it. And don't judge it. It's okay if you feel fear, if you're feeling angry or guilt, don't run away from it. Running away from it is going to activate your sympathetic nervous system and activate all kinds of mechanisms that are unconscious.
00;19;38;06 - 00;19;39;11
Peter
Quite likely.
00;19;39;14 - 00;19;49;21
Darius
Peter, what is the dance of trauma and trauma, and how does that apply here?
00;19;49;23 - 00;20;21;16
Peter
The, the something I've learned through my study of yoga is that early on, we experience imprints to our psyche from every experience, almost every moment of our lives. And some of them leave an indelible mark. They're not all bad. They're not all good. And I've come to understand some of them that were good not to be. Some of them were bad.
00;20;21;16 - 00;20;29;02
Peter
Turned out to be good. And so there's no there's no judgment that serves you well. It just is.
00;20;29;03 - 00;20;30;08
Darius
It is.
00;20;30;10 - 00;21;07;18
Peter
But one of them that we perceive is and judge as bad is normally trauma. It's an event, an experience in our lives. That, causes us pain. We have a painful experience and. Withdrawal from, let's say, love withdrawal from, feeling cared for. Feeling nurtured is what we experience with our parents early on. So it's like an addiction.
00;21;07;21 - 00;21;36;22
Peter
And that generates a certain want, need that is traumatic, sometimes traumatic throughout our lives. Again, they're not like clear experiences always. It's just you love your parents so much, you want their attention. You desire their love, and you don't get it. And you're sad and you feel grieved and and you're only like 2 or 3 years old and you don't really understand what's going on.
00;21;37;06 - 00;22;02;15
Darius
It's interesting because as I think about that, fast forwarding 50, 60 years, I think it's your opportunity to clear the air with your parent and to make peace. You know, I believe in a lot of Buddhist principles, and you're going to keep going around until you get it right. So take that chance to have those conversations that you need to have.
00;22;02;15 - 00;22;29;16
Darius
And again, not from the angry, fear based perspective, but from kindness, compassion, showing, loving, empathetic, recognizing. They're afraid. They know part of them knows that something is going on. Something's not right. There's a disease. And so take that opportunity to have those dialogs. And when you're having those moments, those good moments, be there for those good moments with your parent.
00;22;29;18 - 00;22;32;18
Darius
Be fully there. Be aware and enjoy them.
00;22;32;20 - 00;22;37;02
Peter
Yes. Yeah.
00;22;37;04 - 00;22;59;29
Darius
So you had a quote here, Peter, that I had. The aging parents are not burdens. There are roots. They are the foundation upon which we stand. The wisdom that guides us and the love that sustains us through life's journey. That's such a powerful thesis and way to approach aging parents.
00;23;00;04 - 00;23;02;04
Peter
It is.
00;23;02;07 - 00;23;29;09
Darius
When my mom turned 80, I wrote her a letter thanking her for being my mom. That was my gift. Her. She doesn't need anything. It was a two page, handwritten acknowledgment of the service that she did. And you know, no parent does everything right, but you have to respect and acknowledge that they were your parents and they consciously or subconsciously put a number of beliefs into you and showed you how this world worked.
00;23;29;11 - 00;23;30;10
Peter
As best they could.
00;23;30;16 - 00;23;31;17
Darius
As best they could, what.
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Peter
They knew.
00;23;32;28 - 00;23;44;08
Darius
And and you know that that gradation as best they could with what they knew is very wide because we don't know the struggles they were going with. We don't know what how were they were raised.
00;23;44;11 - 00;23;45;02
Peter
You know.
00;23;45;04 - 00;23;47;23
Darius
Right. So we don't know the conditioning or the beliefs they had.
00;23;47;25 - 00;24;08;14
Peter
No we don't. And with compassion and kindness, whatever it was they experience, we can accept and just let it be and let the relationship also be presently not what it was before.
00;24;08;18 - 00;24;33;15
Darius
Exactly. So that's the second call to action for everyone here, which is to approach your experience with your aging parents with love, compassion and care. You're going to need to be patient, kind and gentle, recognizing that this is a it's a very emotionally charged situation that we are all walking into.
00;24;33;17 - 00;24;45;28
Peter
Yeah. And just to be clear, and you correct me if I'm wrong, please. Darius isn't talking about being kind, gentle, patient, compassionate, just with your parent, but also with yourself.
00;24;46;01 - 00;24;55;09
Darius
Absolute practice. Good self-care while you're going through this. Yeah. Now, there's something called caregiver fatigue. Yeah. It's real. Yeah. It is.
00;24;55;25 - 00;25;03;10
Darius
So, as we wind down and prepare to close this episode, we're at the point where we normally read upon Peter, I think you have something prepared for us.
00;25;03;16 - 00;25;38;24
Peter
Yes, I do. And I'm delighted to read it. It's called each passing day. With each passing day. As years unfold. I cherish the stories and challenges. Your wrinkles hold each line. A tale of love, of joy, of strife. Weaved into the fabric of your soul. Rich and vibrant life as time gentle hands bestows its grace. I see the beauty in every weathered and tattered trace.
00;25;38;27 - 00;26;22;16
Peter
For within each crease, each tear, each imprint, there lies a story, a testament to your resilience and enduring glory. So let us embrace the precious gift, this precious gift of time. Savor each moment, both yours and mine. We're in the twilight of life. We find our true worth. We find our true worth. In those shared moments we had of conversation, laughter, love and mercy.
00;26;22;18 - 00;26;26;03
Darius
Just wonderful. Peter. Thank you for sharing.
00;26;26;05 - 00;26;28;18
Peter
My pleasure.
00;26;28;20 - 00;26;44;23
Darius
So with that, recognizing that many people in the audience are going through this experience. And as you can tell from Peter, in my conversation, we both got firsthand experience. Treat yourself with a lot of love.
00;26;45;00 - 00;26;45;28
Peter
Yes.
00;26;46;01 - 00;27;01;06
Darius
A lot of kindness. Recognize that this is challenging and be patient and drop us a line. The videos will be posted at age differently.com. Let us know how you're doing with this and of something we said made a difference for you.
00;27;01;09 - 00;27;05;08
Peter
Please. Please do. And please take care of you.
00;27;05;10 - 00;27;06;20
Darius
Wonderful. Thank you Peter.