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Fostering community unity through education, advocacy for patients and plants, and efforts to eliminate stigma.
00;00;08;04 - 00;00;31;02
Unknown
Good evening everyone. I'm Molly, the co-chair. And and you've reached conversations with Cush tonight. I have an incredible guests. Mr. Clement Dabney, the third, better known as Doc Dabbs. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah. You have a Clem has a PhD in cannabis, molecular genetics and genomics. He is the CEO of Doc Dabs Healthy HIEs.
00;00;31;05 - 00;00;56;26
Unknown
He is a co-owner of A&E genetics. He does research, education, product innovation. He contributes as a voice to the Star Tribune. He's an advocate for patients and entrepreneurs and small businesses and cannabis consumers in general. So you have a very long list of accolades, sir. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for your work and your leadership in this space.
00;00;56;27 - 00;01;14;07
Unknown
Thank you. Yeah, it's been fun to just serve our community. Yeah. For sure. I can tell you really get a kick out of it. I see you out at events all the time. You're always having a good time interacting with people. You're so warm and, like, approachable. And, you know, when people ask you questions, your style is so gentle.
00;01;14;07 - 00;01;33;14
Unknown
You never make anyone feel shamed for, like, not knowing something. Especially me. I think I came to you. I don't know, a couple months back we were at an event and I'm not really a big dabbler, but I'm like trying to develop my cannabis palate, I guess. And so you were like, helping me through dab. And so, yeah, it was really awesome.
00;01;33;17 - 00;01;52;29
Unknown
Thank you. Yeah. How did you tell me about your life? A little bit. And you know how you kind of got into the cannabis space? Yeah. So I guess I grew up in Bloomington and by my house in Bloomington. Growing up, there was a river access to the Minnesota River. So I guess, like Quentin Tarantino. Let's go back to the beginning.
00;01;53;02 - 00;02;14;04
Unknown
Oh. So at Saint Bonaventure Catholic Church, I started smoking at communion. Class was like the first place I ever smoked cannabis. And then I found out very quickly that I loved it. Okay. And then quickly after that, I ordered some seeds online and then went down to the river and started growing weed down there. Nice. Okay.
00;02;14;04 - 00;02;32;18
Unknown
So I guess that's where the, I guess of love of cannabis was inspired. Yeah, but I never thought that I never if I was me, my eight year me thinking about what I was going to do, I don't think I would ever think it was this. Yeah. Have you always been kind of a science guy then? I haven't, yeah, yeah.
00;02;32;18 - 00;02;56;07
Unknown
So I think when I was younger I wanted to be a biologist. And then in undergrad, I thought I was going to be a medical doctor. And then I kind of, I then I thought I was going to be like, a psychiatrist. You ran the gamut. Yeah, because I was very interested. I studied neuroscience in undergrad, so I was really interested in, like, how we perceive our world and like how when we were provided a stimulus, how we respond to it.
00;02;56;12 - 00;03;25;10
Unknown
Nice. So, yeah, cannabis fits in pretty well with that. It does. Yeah. So I didn't go too far. Yeah. What did you learn? Well, through like the process of growing like both. You know, we'll start personally, but I want to hear about how professionally how that kind of evolved too. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I guess I learned from my grandmother at the beginning, she was if you grew up on a farm in South Dakota, and she lived in Bloomington and she just kind of we always tended her garden together.
00;03;25;10 - 00;03;45;07
Unknown
That was like our thing. So we would pick meant once I get to college, we'd like a picker mint and make her mint juleps. And, she would sit in her lawn chair and I would just weed. And we just have conversations about life. So I think a lot of, like, I guess my, I guess, skills and experience and growing plants kind of stems from her.
00;03;45;12 - 00;04;06;14
Unknown
Okay. But then I got into it more after college. So in undergrad, I had to raise rats and then harvest their brains and that was just too much for me. So I took some time and worked at Norman Dale Community College in the biology lab there, and then met this doctor, Joseph McCulloch, who was, a plant botanist, I guess.
00;04;06;16 - 00;04;27;23
Unknown
And he was like, man, you should really think about, you know, keeping up because he's keeping up with science, I guess. Yeah. And then I kind of like sprung the idea of like, hey, I could I can kill plants for for data. Yeah. And then I. Yeah, I started a master's of professional studies in horticulture, which is like, pay to play masters.
00;04;27;26 - 00;04;55;24
Unknown
Yeah. And then after my first semester, I transferred into, like, a real masters of science. Because I just didn't have the plant background. Sure. But after that semester, I, like, made networks and, started, a real, real masters in plant breeding and molecular genetics. Yeah, I, I saw you talking. Maybe it was with Marcus and, Northern Lights, and you talked about how, like, who do you talk to when you go, and you, you want to study cannabis?
00;04;55;24 - 00;05;17;28
Unknown
So what was that process like? Did you get a lot of pushback from people or people like what? Like, it wasn't really a thing. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So like, so there was a guy at the University of Minnesota, George Weiland, Doctor George Weiland, so I reached I was the vice president of the horticulture Club. I reached out to him to give a speech about cannabis genetics.
00;05;18;00 - 00;05;35;03
Unknown
It went well. We packed the house. And then after it, we kind of, like, vibed after. Yeah. And he was just like, I don't ever take on people that work for me who are interested in cannabis. And I was just like, if I worked for you, that's what I want to do. And then I didn't hear from them.
00;05;35;05 - 00;05;53;20
Unknown
I was finishing up, I was about to defend my masters, and he hit me up and was like, I got some funding, do you want to be my student? So we had a white paper and I'm here. That's what's up. So it's just kind of right place, right time. Yeah. Right. Skill set. What's your project about them? When I worked for him.
00;05;53;20 - 00;06;13;29
Unknown
Yeah. Yes, we did, like, a bunch of stuff outside of my thesis. So we worked on, we worked with Sisseton. Wahpeton. Oh, yeah. I tell you to, like, create. We started the process of breeding them of fiber variety because they have, they have this thing called Dakota Industries. It's a barn, plastic bag facility. So they make, like, the bags you'd find in a Walmart guard.
00;06;14;01 - 00;06;39;21
Unknown
Like the garbage bags that Walmart uses or Starbucks. Yeah. Like a heavy duty one. The heavy duty one or the little trash bin ones. And, they wanted to make that process more sustainable by incorporating hemp fiber into it. So we kind of did like a business plan with them and tried working with them to, like, figure out how much hemp we could get into the bags because they use like a polylactic acid pellet.
00;06;39;24 - 00;07;05;27
Unknown
And I guess my, my thesis was mainly, we created and worked on, the candidate like a cannabis genome project. So we have like, the most highly at the time, it was the most highly resolved cannabis genome. It's like the standard for Ncbi. I did like a market validation study. So we had this marker that we could see if a plant produces THC or CBD or both.
00;07;06;00 - 00;07;26;14
Unknown
So we, we took, a feral population. We made, what we call a test cross and breeding revalidated. And that population took it into some population we got from the National Institute of Drug Abuse from this university. Right. And then we also looked at, I think it was 10 or 12, Canadian certified hemp varieties.
00;07;26;14 - 00;07;50;26
Unknown
Okay. Nice. Is that industry the, the hemp part for like industrial purposes. Is that flourishing here. What is that like? I really don't know that much about it I think I think for the hemp fiber, I think it's still kind of it's in its infancy because the, the tricky part with hemp fibers, it's easy to grow. Sure. Like, we have good we have good climate for it in the state.
00;07;50;28 - 00;08;11;04
Unknown
The problems we lack the infrastructure. Right. Because it really hemp fiber is a product that needs to happen at scale. So you really need at least $3 million, probably ten, to make it successful. Okay. And I think that there's just not enough players with that kind of money. Not that many Minnesota farmers have that kind of money to play around with and gamble.
00;08;11;07 - 00;08;29;15
Unknown
Yeah, right. Because it has it has to end up in something like those plastic bags or. Right, like a large clothing brand or a large car company. So you need to have kind of an end product in mind before you get started. Exactly. Because even the machinery itself, like the decor to cater, is set up for that end product.
00;08;29;18 - 00;08;45;25
Unknown
So you really have to know what that end product is, and you have to be able to sell it. Yeah. The reason I ask is because I feel like there's not enough thought into like the different things people can do in cannabis, like it's big and sexy to have like a retail spot and a dispenser and maybe even to grow.
00;08;45;25 - 00;09;03;18
Unknown
But like, you know, there's so many other jobs that people can do like this is this industry is going to be $1 billion industry. And like there's jobs everywhere for people. So yeah, exactly. I think that like, yeah, I think that's the one thing that I've seen and noticed from my time in the industry is like, I think there's a lot of people that want to do everything.
00;09;03;20 - 00;09;20;16
Unknown
And it's just like, what are you good at. Yeah. Exactly. What do you want to spend the next 20 or 30 years doing. Yeah. And I think that like there's space for that. Yeah. Because we're here in this podcast studio and you know we've had somebody on the podcast, and this is, it's cannabis related. Exactly. It's it's like there's marketing.
00;09;20;16 - 00;09;46;00
Unknown
There's there's every facet packaging, design. Online creation. I think this is this like, what are you good at? And do you like the cannabis industry and I think like fit there. Yeah. Live your passion. Right. That's one thing that I've observed about you as I said earlier like I see you at an events. You're having a good time like I've heard you talk about like the products that you've created and how like you're just always trying to make something that you like.
00;09;46;00 - 00;10;03;11
Unknown
Right. That makes sense. So just kind of shifting into innovation then, tell me how, like, Doctor ABS was born and, and what's that all about? Yeah. So I get stuck. Dabs is boring. I used to have this company. I guess I still do have this gummy empire genetics. Okay, so it's like we were growing hemp in Scandi, poplar Hills.
00;10;03;11 - 00;10;41;22
Unknown
Go dairy and making hemp infused products, I guess, tinctures and honeys. And we sold some seed. Hemp seed. Okay. So that kind of I was doing that concurrently with my PhD. And then once I graduated, I started working at Superior Molecular and then, edible Bill passed, and I was like, I should probably I yeah, I should dabble into, like, using these skills and turning like, like manifesting this passion more in terms of, this Doctor Davis thing.
00;10;41;22 - 00;11;00;11
Unknown
Yeah. Like being more intentional. Yeah. And just kind of do my own lane. Yeah. Cool. Yeah I like that. I, it took me a while. I feel like to find my own lane too. But I like it here. Right. I don't have to really compete with too many people. I mean I know there's other podcasts out there but yeah I mean it's it's cool.
00;11;00;11 - 00;11;27;23
Unknown
It's cool to be able to like, come on to a place and really just start breaking down stigmas. I know one of the things I'm going to ask you about later is, you know, like what's misconceptions about weed that people still have. And, and I think, you know, having these conversations and seeing people like when, when people watch the podcast and I see people like you, you know, a regular cannabis consumer that's successful and healthy minded and, you know, a go getter like, this is a great image, right?
00;11;27;26 - 00;11;50;10
Unknown
So, yeah, what what kind of goes into the process of innovation? How do you make sure that, like, your quality stays good and talk to me about like, your maple product because I know you really love those. So yeah. So even before the Empire genetics thing, I've got a company called Minnesota Food for us that still does farmers markets.
00;11;50;13 - 00;12;13;19
Unknown
So we sell our maple products there. And my aunt does has honeybees, so she sells her honey there. My mom makes jam. Nice. So we have, like, so wholesome. Yeah. Little mix of stuff. So. Yeah. So I guess I originally buy this property in Taylors Falls to grow mushrooms on logs. Nice. Because, like, in my masters, I was part of the mycology club, too.
00;12;13;23 - 00;12;37;10
Unknown
Okay, just out of fascination. And we did a bunch of labs where we would inoculate mushroom logs, and I was a little, mushroom farm, if you will, on the Saint Paul campus. And I was like, man, this is cool. I want to do this. Yeah. So, like, I inoculated these mushroom logs, and they actually lived on the side of my grandma's garage for, like, a year while I was trying to find a property.
00;12;37;13 - 00;12;53;27
Unknown
And then I got a property in Taylors Falls and then put them out there, and then I was like, man, this all these trees are sugar maples. I should probably figure this up. Yeah. So, like, I read every book. Like, I think it was only 1 or 2 at the time on, maple tap lines.
00;12;53;29 - 00;13;16;12
Unknown
Okay. And I watched every scoured YouTube trying to figure out how to set this tube system up. Yeah. And then bought all the tools and was I think it was like eight miles of tubing through the woods. And yeah, so that's kind of like the background of the maple stuff. Cool. But yeah. So I think, I think a lot of my products are like, yeah, products that I enjoy.
00;13;16;12 - 00;13;35;04
Unknown
Yeah. And I think it's like, I like the creation of a product because it's like an iterative thing. Like you, you do like an R&D batch, right? And then you're refining every step. How do I make this more efficient and how do I scale this? How do I make sure that it's consistent? What steps do I need to take?
00;13;35;07 - 00;13;57;17
Unknown
How do I even trial this to ensure consistency? So it's like I view viewed as like a big puzzle. Yeah. And you're like trying to put all the pieces together. I love that, I especially love the, the innovation part, you know, where you talk about how the products that you like and what you want to see in the market is kind of what you try to bring to life.
00;13;57;19 - 00;14;21;10
Unknown
I lost that. All right. Sorry, but I think that, like, innovation can also be, like, two different things. Yeah. So tell me innovation for myself. Yeah, yeah, I think it's really, it's easier because I can sit on something for a long time and think about it. Or as if I'm making a product, for somebody else.
00;14;21;17 - 00;14;47;00
Unknown
They have a timeline and they want to get to market and, yeah, they may have a wild idea, from a virtual products firm for, like, suppositories to lubes to, I'm the newest one somebody wants me to work on is THC glitter for drinks. Oh, wow. I feel like I've seen that IRL. Giles. I might have something like that.
00;14;47;00 - 00;15;08;08
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's right there. Yeah. So it's like, Yeah. Yoni from Earl Giles wants to come on. It puts it on fruit. A THC glitter that could go in beverages. Nice. So, yeah. What about. And genetics. What is that right now? It's kind of a defunct company. Okay. I think that.
00;15;08;10 - 00;15;27;01
Unknown
So Empire genetics was the one labeling that seed. Anyway, so I think in the future, Hemp Genetics will be the company that really future seed releases out of. Okay, but I'm, I don't know. I left Retro Bakery. It was a company between that was split up between me and Mason. Old. Yeah. So I don't know.
00;15;27;01 - 00;15;50;02
Unknown
I think that that's kind of done. Yeah. It's was amicable and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, more or less. What did you want to pursue then. And in exchange for that, what do you mean like what. What did you why why the leave. And like, we just wanting to pursue your own things that you had going on or, you got a lot going on.
00;15;50;02 - 00;16;21;14
Unknown
I mean, you're writing for the paper, you're down at the capital, you know, you're out at events all the time. You're doing innovation. I know that, that party that I saw you out a few months back, you were doing, like, a rosin gummy, which was really good. Thank you. Yeah. So I know I saw you also, talking about things like, you know, adding and turps and, like, how turps can bring flavors to things and is that something that you're wanting to pursue a little bit more?
00;16;21;14 - 00;16;43;02
Unknown
Just definitely. Yeah. So yeah, I'm hoping to have. Yeah. I'm do I do I'm doing a white label live rosin gummy for two different clients, and then I'll have my own that it should reach the market soon. Here. Nice. Okay, cool. What kinds of things when you are growing weed? What kinds of things do you want to express?
00;16;43;02 - 00;17;15;19
Unknown
Is it different things at different times if I'm growing for breeding or cultivation? Both. Yeah. I mean make sure this doesn't happen again. I know I've heard you talk about sometimes like growing for like to get the most yield or like the biggest yield or now I've heard you talking about different chemo bars and I think that's really what I want to get to because I think people really need to start understanding that, you know, the types of chemo of ours and how everyone's going to come to their own place with cannabis.
00;17;15;19 - 00;17;34;13
Unknown
Right. And it's not necessarily going to be a chemo bar. One. It's not necessarily going to be a chemo bar three it's probably going to be somewhere in the middle. Right? So yeah. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, I guess for my breeding and cultivation practices is usually if I'm cultivating for myself, I grow things I like. Okay. Kind of to bring it back to like that.
00;17;34;17 - 00;17;54;13
Unknown
Yeah. But so I like things with lots of, of Lansing in it which makes things not want like oranges. Yeah. So I'm a sucker for tangs. Orange cookie. Max mimosas. And what kind of feelings are that giving you for me? That just gives me a nice, like, I find it to be like a clear high.
00;17;54;13 - 00;18;27;01
Unknown
I can think, well, I tend to have, I view my brain is like there's a dozen or two dozen TVs in there, and they're all at different volumes and have different things on them. And I think for me, cannabis kind of like, we'll chill that out. And orange, things that tend to be more orange, would tend to like allow me to focus better for, yeah, that's definitely the kind of experience I want to have as I go through and develop my own kind of citizenship with cannabis.
00;18;27;01 - 00;18;44;09
Unknown
Like, what do I need to dial in to that just really, really works for me. You know, I've found a couple of things. I'm like, yeah, that feels good. You know, that's good. I like that, you know? But, I think especially and I feel like I can do that through smoking more so than, like with edibles because it's just the effect is different.
00;18;44;09 - 00;19;06;23
Unknown
You know, you get that like immediate effect where you're like, yeah, okay, I feel this. So yeah, it's it's just a really great journey, I think. What are you learning from cannabis even day to day? I guess lately, lately I've been focusing a lot on these, like, secondary metabolites or specialized metabolites. Yeah. So at when we were at the U.
00;19;06;23 - 00;19;35;03
Unknown
I guess one of two chapter I didn't talk about in my thesis early in our talk was we did some QTL mapping for like economically important traits track head size, stature of the plants, different cannabinoid traits, different terpene traits. So I think that, like, what's been interesting me lately is that, like, like we're just talking about, like, how do you develop that or find that product that's best for your life?
00;19;35;03 - 00;20;05;07
Unknown
What? Yeah. So I think that it's, it's most interesting to kind of focus on these other, these other constituent parts. Right? Because it's like the when you look at THC by itself, people find that uncomfortable usually. Yeah. It's not like a pleasurable experience. Totally. So it's like it's all these other things that a little bit of CBD, a little CBG, the terpenes, alcohols, the hetero aromatics, these volatile sulfur compounds.
00;20;05;07 - 00;20;27;23
Unknown
It's like, how do you maximize the, the best experience for you and what you need right from the plant? Yeah. It's so individual because it's so complex. You know, cannabis as a plant is very complex. The endocannabinoid system is so complex. And then the way it interacts with your body, another level of complexity. Everybody's body's unique. Yeah.
00;20;27;23 - 00;21;01;19
Unknown
Exactly where their neurons are set up and how those transporter systems work is, is there's a lot of translation that needs to happen between, like, what you're doing and like giving to the consumer, right. Or to the, to the patient. That needs to happen. Like all that education needs to be done. So, I'm glad to be in the space here doing that with, you know, what what are you excited for for like, homegirl people, I feel like this is a really like we can talk about the bill all day, right?
00;21;01;22 - 00;21;25;00
Unknown
And we probably will. But like homegirl was a win. That was like a grand slam. What are you excited about for people in their home growing? Like, how are you help supporting people? And, like, it's very early on with, Tanner and I and the cannabis codes, like, hosted, like homegirl classes. Yeah, yeah, it was cool to see.
00;21;25;02 - 00;21;48;20
Unknown
And it's cool, like seeing some of these people that didn't really have any cannabis experience, at the IRL Giles events and coming to the events and being involved, it's like, and it's been really cool seeing like, people who didn't grow canvas and have that relationship now grow cannabis. Yeah, because it seems like at least from that OCM report, they released, what, a quarter of cannabis users in Minnesota grow.
00;21;48;23 - 00;22;09;27
Unknown
So it's a lot of people out there, home growing cannabis. Yeah. And I think the one beautiful thing of it and like putting like the breeder lens on is that that means that there's a huge diversity of like different genetics out there and people working on different projects. And I think that's kind of, of kind of beautiful.
00;22;09;27 - 00;22;28;25
Unknown
It's like, yeah, it's almost like this resource, especially because, when I go to these events, some old heads always come up to me and I've got this Hindu kush I got back from a buddy who traveled over there, and I've been maintaining it for however long. And it's cool that there's like, these, these pockets of resources of cannabis.
00;22;28;25 - 00;22;51;22
Unknown
Totally. I love that. I love to see people growing their own medicine. That's how it should be, you know, just like we should be growing our own food, we can be growing our own medicine, too, you know, even alluding to, you know, inoculating spores. So, yeah. And the other thing I really like is the communities that it's building, you know, I see people like dude doing his homegrown community.
00;22;51;24 - 00;23;10;29
Unknown
Bob, I would I can enjoy doing theirs. I feel like the Guild as a collective is really doing a lot to support home, grow and then to have like that little testing component that they have. That's nice too. And people can kind of dial into where they're at with their weed. And yeah, it's it's awesome. I think that's the best part.
00;23;11;01 - 00;23;37;17
Unknown
Give a couple of tips like give like some pro tips from from the master of the PhD. As the people that want that are growing their own cannabis. What do I for one, I guess one of my favorite pro tips to give to people is, is get a jeweler's loop. So jeweler's loop allows you to look at the tri comb heads and see where they are at in development.
00;23;37;19 - 00;23;56;07
Unknown
I think that's, very important and very cheap tool to figure out when you're ready to harvest. If you don't have a jeweler's loop, I think the easiest way to talk about when to harvest is when those stigmas turn from white. Orange or brown. Yeah. But I think the jeweler's loop gives you a bit more power.
00;23;56;10 - 00;24;15;17
Unknown
Because not everything finishes, a pack of seeds may say it finishes in eight weeks. And maybe it's actually 10 or 11. Yeah. So I think that's just having more data, can help you make better medicine. Someone told me you have to harvest it when it's, like, just starting to bend. Like it where it looks like it's going to break, like it's heavy.
00;24;15;20 - 00;24;38;27
Unknown
But it's like doesn't break off. So. Yeah. But what, what a beautiful thing to for people to be developing that you know and to like learn that whole process and go through that. So Zen and I just, I like that I tried once to like pop some seeds and I think oh well after that. So I'm going to try again this year though, I'm to I'm going to do with clones, I think, I think I should yeah.
00;24;38;27 - 00;25;01;19
Unknown
And I'm going to go outdoor just in a pot because I live in a townhouse. So you know, have a big space to grow. But I want to give it a shot. Oh yeah. Once I think, I think another, I guess another tip I would say for home growers is that, to have a some sort of meter, because I think that, you know, we think of at least for outdoor cannabis, it's easy.
00;25;01;19 - 00;25;22;00
Unknown
The, the rain is watering it. But, at home you have a bit more control indoors. Yeah. And I don't know about I don't know about everybody, but my water comes up very basic. Yeah, I'm probably like 8.4. Okay. So I think that, like, being able to dial in the pH, I think will take a lot of people to then that next level.
00;25;22;02 - 00;25;38;22
Unknown
Yeah. Avoid a lot of nutrient lockout, some salt mill, so many, so many nuances. Yeah. There is yeah. It's like every facet where it's a good resource that people can go to, like if they're growing in there. Like have a question like, does a, you have a good site where you can I don't, I don't know.
00;25;38;22 - 00;26;02;00
Unknown
That's your next project. Yeah. That's the next project. Yeah. I think it'd be cool to get a better resource. Live in for free on the cannabis coast. Yeah. But I think outside of that, I know there's some good Reddit pages that I'm forgetting right now. Okay, there's a couple good Minnesota groups out there. I think that another good place that you mentioned earlier is, the Bob's, category.
00;26;02;03 - 00;26;23;12
Unknown
Yeah. Checking out kind of joy, and just asking questions to the people there. Yeah. For sure. Another good place is Zoe at Eco Garden. I think that a lot of the groceries, greener goods, I think you can walk in there and ask some questions and get some good answers. So I know, at least for Zoe's, he's a legacy guy.
00;26;23;12 - 00;26;49;15
Unknown
He's got, you know, probably a couple of decades of experience. I think it's just like, finding those those gems. And I think that at least on the side for those people is like, they want to see you succeed because of your successes, their success. It makes them happy. I'm sure you know, the if they can tap into your their passion, then so can you, you know, okay, so our current industry.
00;26;49;17 - 00;27;11;11
Unknown
Oh, give me a hot take on it. Where do you where do you think it's at? Like what? What are we doing here? I think we're dragging our feet. Yeah, definitely. I think things are now finally starting to happen. Yeah. How do you feel about the rules are are finalized now? I know there's been a couple of pain points in them.
00;27;11;13 - 00;27;39;19
Unknown
Yeah, I think I think one of the biggest pain points for, like, the small craft grower, like a fire beard, or like a green machine. Is that like, Some folks are making, like, really refined value added products, and the yield on rosin is low, like 3% or less return. Some of you have to come up with 60g for a test sample.
00;27;39;21 - 00;27;59;17
Unknown
Yeah. There can be a lot of. It's a lot of money. Sure it is. Especially if you on a I mean, there's going to be ways that they can work around that. They could have you can might have to have successive grows and pull it together. But I think it does I think it does stifle innovation and, and, and product access.
00;27;59;19 - 00;28;24;06
Unknown
Because now they, you know, now you have to grow things in much larger batches. Right? You can't have small craft things or, try new things at a small scale. So I've heard you kind of allude to like where did that come from? You know, like how does this go through? You know, if the if the sentiment of the bill was to honor the small craft grower and the the small business person, you know, what?
00;28;24;06 - 00;28;47;26
Unknown
What does that serving us then? You know. Yeah. Because it's it's yeah, it's very questionable because it wasn't in the first two iterations of those rules. And then so clearly if if Tableau is, is is confirming what rules end up in the what rules are in our rulebook, I guess, it's just like where did it go? Who what conversation or why did that suddenly become important?
00;28;47;26 - 00;29;09;22
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Why did that become important? Who is he talking to? And like, how do you how do you buy the rules? Right. You know. Yeah. So yeah, I think that, I don't know, I think that a small growers and small business owners, I think we need to kind of band together. Okay. I think we're in this weird moment where in our, our our markets infancy.
00;29;09;24 - 00;29;32;04
Unknown
Yep. And we saw with was 24, 26, big money and and interest. Is that at least able to buy bills? They were fortunately for us that they weren't successful in passing it. Right. But, you know, now we see new things pop up in these rules, right? And there's going to be a cannabis omnibus bill that comes up.
00;29;32;04 - 00;30;02;20
Unknown
So like, what's going to get snuck in there. Right. So I think that we just need to we don't need it to work in like some sort of cabal or like we have to be in the same crew or something. But we all have the same interests, right? So I think that if we just exercise our interests in a political manner, like staying on top of our Congress and Senator, so in 24 or 26 came out, I made sure to write my senator and we we emailed back and forth about it.
00;30;02;21 - 00;30;21;29
Unknown
Right. And then they pointed me in the direction of other people to talk to. Sure. And then I testified and gave my opinion. So I think it's just like making sure to stay on top of it for sure, because I think, I think for this one, we just were I don't know, I wasn't I didn't think that Bill was going to come up.
00;30;21;29 - 00;30;43;05
Unknown
You know, I wasn't prepared for it. So I think that I think this next time around, I think that we should have some amount of preparedness. There was such a long, hard fight to just get adult rec legalized. And I think once that happened, people were like, But there was sounding alarms going on before that. You know, people like Michael Floyd were coming forward.
00;30;43;05 - 00;31;01;29
Unknown
People like Jeff Brinkman are coming forward saying, hey, this really isn't going to be great for, you know, small business people. So or, you know, like, where is the social justice piece of this, you know, like, don't let that get lost. And so, you know, we do these are our elected officials. We have to hold their feet to the fire because if we don't, nobody else will.
00;31;01;29 - 00;31;27;29
Unknown
And then people with money will sweep in. And like you said, by the rules or by the bill or whatever it is. So. Yeah, I mean, banding together certainly is. One of the things that has to happen and lobbying your, your own elected officials is that second piece of it too. So, yeah, super important work. What are some of the other pain points that have come up after seeing the rules?
00;31;28;01 - 00;31;55;00
Unknown
One of them I saw, like I scratched out, is that sampling piece, like not being able to, like, give samples out of the events. Yeah, that was scratched out, which was nice. So another pain point. I made a little infographic about it. Well, I know there's been a lot of talk about percentages and, you know, people being able to access the medicine that they need and, you know, like the concentrates percentage is not being high enough.
00;31;55;00 - 00;32;15;16
Unknown
And so, yeah, I think I think another big one is, if track and trace, it looks like they're going with metric. Okay. I don't think that's been set in stone yet, but the track and trace software, if it goes down, there are no sales. So that can be a big pain point because in other states it's gone down for hours.
00;32;15;18 - 00;32;36;18
Unknown
Or in some cases, I think a couple of days. Well, and you can see already like people are just like dying at the bit to like get into dispensaries and be able to buy their weed. And I could see how that could very easily happen within the first, you know, day, honestly. So, yeah, it's a tough one.
00;32;36;20 - 00;33;08;23
Unknown
What else? What would the OCM under the leadership of Clement Abney look like? Oh, we'd have cannabis right now. I don't know if you're here. Yeah. I, I guess, under the my leadership, we would have seen I would have stayed true to what the bill says is, we're the only EMS job is to create and foster, essentially a craft industry.
00;33;08;24 - 00;33;37;15
Unknown
Yeah. So I think what they would have gotten with me is, is transparency. I would work with the various stakeholders I use, you know, small and large business, the medical companies, elected officials, as well as other government departments, to craft, you know, a solid a solid program. And I think that right now it doesn't feel like at least that they are listening to small business or reaching out to them.
00;33;37;15 - 00;34;01;26
Unknown
Sure. Because we I don't know, we keep getting sprung by bad rulemaking and bad laws and. Well, and the whole debacle with the social equity thing and the lottery and like that was what? Yeah, yeah. And I think they're, they're even still kind of, at risk because if, if they have to hold that lottery, some people change their decisions based on that.
00;34;01;26 - 00;34;25;23
Unknown
And so they might have pulled out of social equity to put themselves in a lottery. Right, and change their chance. And I think that opens them up to litigation. And that could potentially slow the rollout even more. Yeah. So yeah. Were you all prepared? Like I, you know, I talked to Aaron on the show and, she was saying how, like, she had her whole business plan built up and she was ready to roll it out.
00;34;25;24 - 00;34;50;08
Unknown
Like, did you have kind of a plan in place? So, like, okay, these are the steps I think I really that are really important. And what were those pillars? For me it was since I'm a small business, it's like finding, people that I can either collaborate with or who want to buy into deep dives. And so I was fortunate enough to find a good partner for, the dispensary side.
00;34;50;10 - 00;35;10;13
Unknown
So it's, the hinds is, Dustin Goldie from, the agrarian nursery. So we're pretty close to the airport, and they've got a nursery business that's already there. And two structures. So I think that the nursery will move into the in the other structure, and then the dispensary will be in what, what is now their nursery.
00;35;10;14 - 00;35;28;28
Unknown
Hopefully they'll give Bachman's a run for their money. So so that's what I want to see. But I think that. Yeah, I think I think that, yeah, it's like, being able to do something cool because I think it's, I think we're there's a nice little outdoor space for a little lounge for the animals session among the plants.
00;35;28;28 - 00;35;50;04
Unknown
Yeah, I love them. It's a cool part of town. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I found good partners for that. That's good. It's good to have good people around you. That's like, critical, I think, you know, to success. What are some of the real positives that you've seen come out of the rules and and the, the law.
00;35;50;07 - 00;36;11;29
Unknown
I think the real positives are, is the number of people that applied. What is it, you know, 3500. Most of them being small business. So I think that I think the, the wealth generation a possibility I think is the most beautiful part of it is like allow allows this. The bill allows people with the ability to follow their passions.
00;36;12;01 - 00;36;37;25
Unknown
Yeah. And we talked about you know it could be you know, video editing to production to marketing. It's opening up, a whole new industry and giving people jobs and being able to support their families and communities. I think that I think that's the most powerful thing about all of this. How do you, how do you pivot now after.
00;36;37;25 - 00;37;04;07
Unknown
So, I mean, I know you've moved on from that whole thing with the OCM. I feel like, you know, people were really kind of devastated, Clem, and that you didn't get it. I think we're like, what? This makes so much sense. Why didn't this happen? And I think people were just kind of in shock and awe, you know, because it just was like, seemed like such a natural fit, you know, how did you just pivot away from that and just, like, pour into what you're doing?
00;37;04;07 - 00;37;24;24
Unknown
And how do you then become the voice of, like, this industry? Now you're writing for the paper. You've got some really insightful things in there. And just like some really deep personal things too, reflections on that. So, talk a little bit about that and what that journey has been like. Yeah. So I think for me it's just kind of like lit a fire under me.
00;37;24;26 - 00;37;51;03
Unknown
I've had since like and I think it, it also, it also kind of like it worked in my favor I think as well because like, I think that it opened me, it at least brought my brand to people who didn't necessarily know me before that. Gotcha. And let people know kind of what's going on in the Minnesota cannabis politics.
00;37;51;03 - 00;38;18;28
Unknown
Yeah. So, yeah. So it just allowed me to, like, hone my focus and find opportunities that I'm passionate about. And I think, I think that and it's kind of how I pivoted. It's like I'm throwing a lot more into Doctor Downs, where Doctor Deb's full time. Now, I get to write for the Star Tribune. And I think that, everybody out of ICM knows me.
00;38;19;00 - 00;38;41;11
Unknown
Yeah. So, I mean, it also gives me, like, you know, a little bit more access to them and maybe even, like, credibility or something, to, like, you know, feel free to speak my truth to them. Yeah. And to the lawmakers. Yeah. Yeah, I'm. That was really impassioned what you said, you know, speaking for the bill.
00;38;41;11 - 00;38;48;08
Unknown
So. Or against that. So,
00;38;48;10 - 00;39;14;09
Unknown
Your voice for the strip. What do you want to convey with it? Like you have your own personal take on things I've heard you talk about, like this push, pull that you feel between like you've been the director for the Native American. Which one was it? Tell me that you've been the medical director for Red Lake and you've talked about your lineage, your Choctaw lineage.
00;39;14;09 - 00;39;36;25
Unknown
And, like, having this balance of, like, how do we support indigenous people and make sure the rest of the social equity people are also elevated to those spaces? You know, how do we balance that out? I think it's really hard. And I think I think even those conversations are really hard. Yeah, they are, because it's like we they're they got served a bad deal in Minnesota.
00;39;36;25 - 00;40;07;29
Unknown
Yeah. Up until like the 70s. Yeah. So it's just like what? My mom was born in 69. So when she was born, horrible things were still happening, right? So it's like, it's like, I don't think that we, I don't know, I, I grapple with it still, it's hard to talk about. So it's like, how do we make sure that they're geared for success and economic prosperity, but making sure that, the playing field also doesn't come at a cost of other others, I guess.
00;40;08;00 - 00;40;41;18
Unknown
Yeah, that have also faced hardship. From the war on drugs. Yeah. Yeah. Drugs. Yeah. And also, I feel like we also need to do things that are sustainable for the industry. Like, I feel like they're building these huge facilities and I'm like, I don't know, is this really what we need? You know, so, you know, I would love to see that's why I talked earlier about the industrial hemp, because can't we shift our mindset a little bit and maybe, you know, move into these other industries where we could really bolster, the economy in Minnesota by doing other things in cannabis?
00;40;41;20 - 00;40;59;28
Unknown
So, I don't know. I just wish people would just think outside the box sometimes. You know, it doesn't have to be this big, sexy, like, you know, over smoking cannabis. And we can have a lounge and, you know, this fall and all this, so, I don't know, I just that's the reflection that I had. Yeah, but I do I do agree with you.
00;40;59;28 - 00;41;32;14
Unknown
There's like the, there's so many opportunities where big money could spend and, and still make big money. There's just so many on I mean, it takes, you know. There's risk there. Yeah. But I think that there's still completely untapped marketplaces like in Europe. They do a lot of hemp composite parts. We don't do that. Yeah. If you set up that supply chain, which is what you're going to have to do is go from production of plant, even controlling the seed.
00;41;32;14 - 00;41;52;16
Unknown
So you can have seed reasonably, at a reasonable price. So that's a problem for for refined fiber farmers is seed is expensive. But like being able to control the basically create a vertically integrated market space with the end product in mind, because I think that, you know, Tesla or another, that's a great company at this point.
00;41;52;16 - 00;42;20;07
Unknown
But. Right, you know, Ford or Chevrolet or some car company is going to invest in putting those parts in their car because it's novel. Yeah. And then they can say that it's more sustainable than using something that was plastic. Right. So and it wouldn't be a lie. Yeah. Yeah. What are some of your personal missions for our industry?
00;42;20;07 - 00;42;38;29
Unknown
Like, how do you want to make your mark other than what you've already done? You're like, you're an award winning, you know, innovator. You've won several awards for legacy Club. You know, you're a great leader and advocate. What else do you want to do? What else? What else is there? Well, I think I think I've got a lot more work to do on the breeding side of things.
00;42;38;29 - 00;43;00;23
Unknown
Okay. So we kind of talked about earlier like like what what constituent parts make up the, the cannabis as like a medicine or even a recreational drug. Yeah. So I think that there's a lot of work to do in the, the non terpene space and even the European space because there are no published markers yet for a, in production.
00;43;00;25 - 00;43;28;13
Unknown
One of my I guess one of my paper is like alludes to it. So I think that that there's an ability, for somebody to develop a marker pretty quickly if they read one of my thesis chapters. But I think that like creating more markers for these volatile sulfur compounds. I think that I think where I want to leave my markers, like creating these chemo bars for specific, specific end uses.
00;43;28;18 - 00;43;51;03
Unknown
Okay. Do you have problems with inflammation? This is your cultivar, right? Do you need help? Sleeving. This is your cultivar. I think that that's where I'd want to make my greatest, like, splash is, like, kind of creating the Honeycrisp and Sweet tango, but for cannabis and and bring it to the general public. I love that. And then I think it's like a dual edged thing.
00;43;51;03 - 00;44;15;09
Unknown
Is that like, I don't think people completely understand because I think a lot of consumers are like, I need numbers. I want 50% THC flower. Right. But I don't yeah. That might not be what they actually want. Right. They just don't know. Yeah. Because like we can bring it back to maple sirup when you blind taste test people people choose dark amber maple sirup.
00;44;15;12 - 00;44;35;16
Unknown
But when they can look at it and see it they choose fancy light fancy I didn't. So they choose this light sirup with less taste when they look at it. Interesting. But when they just taste it, they choose something completely different. Yeah. I think your research is so important because it's more of like that concrete, foundational work.
00;44;35;16 - 00;44;54;08
Unknown
And I feel like, you know, the, the research that I typically like, learn from and study from and think about is more like survey stuff, like how did this make you feel type stuff, you know, just because we have that restriction of cannabis still being federally illegal, schedule one. And I think once that gets lifted, of course that will open up.
00;44;54;08 - 00;45;16;19
Unknown
But like the research that you can do is just so much more concrete because it's not focus on people. So, you know, that's a that foundational work is really needed. And I applaud people like you that's doing that. People like Matt, Robert Dow, this is really great work is coming right out of our state. So to me, that's awesome.
00;45;16;21 - 00;45;38;01
Unknown
Yeah. I think yeah. And I think we're poised because the bill, had language in there that is going to give money to the university to study cannabis. Yeah. So, so I think that will keep at least I think it'll keep Minnesota on the forefront. Yeah. Of do you have people on your heels. Do you have people on your heels that are just like, dying to like, do, you know, cannabis research, too?
00;45;38;01 - 00;45;58;08
Unknown
I mean, I hope so, yeah. So I know that George is taking on a new student in the fall. Okay, great. Yeah. So. And then five, five and a half years will be another another, doctor. Cannabis. I haven't met her yet, but it sounds like she's pretty brilliant. Oh, sweet. And it's a woman. What? Oh. Hey, girl.
00;45;58;09 - 00;46;30;26
Unknown
Shut up. Minnesota. Hey. All over the place. All right, well, let's get back to those myths about cannabis. Like, what are some of the big myths about cannabis that people think? And what's the truth? Yeah, so I think the biggest myth that causes me the most flak online, is, is indica. Sativa. Yeah. So, like, when you look, genetically speaking, groups of plants labeled in the kind groups of plants labeled sativa, there's no genetic differentiation.
00;46;30;26 - 00;47;00;16
Unknown
Okay? And then when you start, let's say you start looking at chemical differentiation. There's very, very weak correlates already. Data okay. Supporting at least determining difference in indica versus sativa. Where's the difference coming from then? I think it's I think it's largely that there is some amount of difference. So there's like some factor online, and Mersenne correlations.
00;47;00;16 - 00;47;29;23
Unknown
But correlation is not causation. Right. So I think that I think that there, there is something there. Okay. But I don't necessarily think it's indicative a thing. I think we've been talking about, you know, how the all these different chemical compounds kind of like add together to give you the user experience. Yep. So I think that what indicates that people are really trying to explain is that is that these specific chemical powerhouses are providing these feelings.
00;47;29;25 - 00;47;58;17
Unknown
Right? It's not necessarily this label in the correct. Yeah. Because there's just been so much crossbreeding. And even the the origin of the etymology of cannabis indica was largely like, like, like a science ploy, really, to make cannabis legal because the what's scheduled is cannabis sativa L and all parts they're in, yada yada. Right. So it's cannabis sativa is the illegal plant.
00;47;58;20 - 00;48;31;04
Unknown
So if we make this new plant, this whole new species, cannabis indica, okay, I guess we we could then have cannabis again. Okay. Gotcha. The, you know, they're all they all are inter inter fertile with each other. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that I think largely that's indicative or like a colloquialism. They're like words that we use to describe an effect, though I do think that probably in the next ten years we're going to, we're going to have probably better words, I think.
00;48;31;04 - 00;48;48;19
Unknown
So to we and I think we really need to put importance on that lexicon. I think, you know, saying indica and saying sativa is a is an easy way for like the layman to understand, like, yep, this one's going to give me a head high. This one's going to make me go to sleep, you know, so it's easy for them to differentiate that.
00;48;48;19 - 00;49;08;29
Unknown
But like you'll hear people say all the time, you know, most cannabis is a hybrid. So I would really love to see like strain names going away and people focusing in on CEOs and like what is actually in this plant right here. What is this plant going to provide you, you know, and so, you know, I think testing is really important.
00;49;08;29 - 00;49;28;14
Unknown
And I think once people know what they need to dial into, then they can go look for those things in the dispensary. So there needs to be that education piece again where like, people understand that, like, I can't just look for sativa. I, I maybe need to look for like, I don't know, Lynn Oluwole or whatever it might be that's going to give me a good head high.
00;49;28;16 - 00;49;47;26
Unknown
So and I think that yeah, even for here's a shout out for one of these, web creator types, maybe the first person who starts putting all that data in a centralized spot and connects it with dispensaries. That's probably a powerful tool. Yeah, I think there actually might be someone doing something like that out in San Francisco.
00;49;47;26 - 00;50;06;29
Unknown
Jon Talleyrand, have you ever heard of him? No. Yeah, you should check him out. He's doing some turbines, for. They're doing, like, markers and, like, how do you feel kind of thing. And, like, labeling it up with a color or something like that. I'll send you his info. But, yeah. What other types of research projects are you kind of dialed into right now that you're interested in?
00;50;07;02 - 00;50;33;12
Unknown
Oh, right now I've been actually pitching some research to you, and reaching out to industry to fund it. Okay. But right now, I would love to do more plant breeding work, but I just don't think there's there is. So, you know, let's go backward. Research gets done because industry funds it. Exactly. Yeah. Because they want something to give to people.
00;50;33;13 - 00;51;01;12
Unknown
Yeah. So right now, the things I really want to do there really isn't funding for. But I do think that I'm still passionate about making the plant more sustainable. So I do think that there's some there's some like value added work in terms of like how do you ensure, like post-harvest handling, how do you, lengthen the, the life of a product and how do you make sure that it stays quality over that lifespan?
00;51;01;15 - 00;51;24;16
Unknown
And I also think that there's some research in light spectrum and under canopy lights that would be cool to be more contemporary. Okay. Then I think that there's a, there's good potential that I could get into. So if any viewers will want to contribute to some research at the university, there you go. Let me know. My donators, I think.
00;51;24;18 - 00;51;49;12
Unknown
But yes, I think that, because I think that a lot of people think that like they see hemp and then kind of conflate hemp with recreational cannabis and like recreational cannabis is not very sustainable, where hemp is more sustainable, I guess. You mean like it breaks down more easily? Know it's just like in it requires incredible energy to make high quality flower.
00;51;49;18 - 00;52;14;13
Unknown
Gotcha. No lights. Like, just like, so let's just talk about, like, a micro license. Let's just assume you had one plant for square foot. This is just spitballing. Numbers is not what most people do, but you've got 5000 plants, and they each feed half a gallon of water or quarter a gallon. That's, you know, 1250 to 2500 gallons of water they're transpiring.
00;52;14;13 - 00;52;37;11
Unknown
That probably that, you know, within a day's period of time. That's a lot of moisture in the air. Yeah. That requires energy to remove that moisture. Right. They need light sensor inside. You gotta provide them like that's a bunch of energy. So I think that, like, indoor high quality indoor cannabis isn't is just kind of it takes a lot of inputs.
00;52;37;13 - 00;52;54;21
Unknown
Does that mean that you like to you prefer to grow your cannabis outside? I don't think that. Not necessarily. I do like growing cannabis outside, but, I also like high quality indoor cannabis. But I think that there's just I just think that we as like an industry need to support. How do we make how do we do it better.
00;52;54;24 - 00;53;18;05
Unknown
Yeah. How do we extend the length of those products in terms of shelf life? How do we how do we produce the same gram of flower. Cheaper. Because cheaper means less inputs. And so like how do we how do we make this thing that we love better and more sustainable and consistent? I think to, you know, so that people know if they've, you know, been accessing this and this is what works.
00;53;18;05 - 00;53;45;01
Unknown
Okay. And I can go back to that and I'm going to get the same effect every time. So yeah, it's really important. Yeah. What are some other challenges that the industry is going to face coming up, do you think when adult rec goes live? I think that, of course will be the original, what they what were they using in, production shortfall or whatever, but it's just because plants take time to grow.
00;53;45;02 - 00;54;04;13
Unknown
Yeah. Like just because, you know, store A has a license, let's just call it June 1st. It's still what? It's still 2 or 3 months realistically away. Yeah. Before that store will have product and then it's just going to be a run on the bank. I can buy weed now and everybody and their brother is going to go do it.
00;54;04;13 - 00;54;24;26
Unknown
Yeah. So I think that originally there will be a shortfall, but it appears that the number of licenses appears that it will saturate the Minnesota market space. So I think that short term. But they're only allowing a certain number of disposals. Right. Like 382 or something like that. Wasn't that. It was like a magic number. I don't have to look back.
00;54;24;28 - 00;54;42;09
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Not to put you on the spot, but I thought there was going to be like a limited number. Yeah. But yeah, I guess even then. Yeah. Yeah. That would create a market problem. For sure. Well, I think, I think that's what are the main problem is in the infancy of, of this market is there's going to be market problems.
00;54;42;12 - 00;55;06;21
Unknown
Yeah. Right. Is that like eventually. Yeah. There's this production. If you can supply more than there's demand price crashes. Well if there isn't supply like what happened at the beginning is like, people are going to overpay for their medicine or drugs and, yeah. So I guess people who are early movers are going to benefit because price will be high.
00;55;06;22 - 00;55;24;27
Unknown
But again, that takes money. You know, like the here's these people like waiting and waiting and waiting. And so like they have their space rented and they have to pay rent on that and they have to, you know, set up all the other infrastructures of their business, like their safety plan and their sales point of sales and all that stuff, and just, and it's it's very clear.
00;55;25;02 - 00;55;44;18
Unknown
Yeah. Still, even in the rules. Yeah. I was like reading through the rules and like, because we're trying to figure out, like, do we have to have a vestibule? Do or do we have to have product behind the cage? Right. I like, is uncertain. Like there's not really clear guidance. I feel like most of the market. So it's like that, right?
00;55;44;18 - 00;56;01;15
Unknown
Yeah. So you think they would follow suit? Kind of. But like you go into a discipline like, Denver it's pretty. I mean, you're it's like a glass case, you know what I mean? It doesn't feel like, you know, behind lock and key type shit, but, Yeah, you know, I think in Vegas, they didn't have you just walk in.
00;56;01;16 - 00;56;21;19
Unknown
Oh, cookies did, but there was one by MJ based that you just kind of walked in. So it's like, what style are they looking for? Yeah. What do you think, the lucky leaf? Speaking of, events, what did you think of lucky late this year? Oh, they did the panel and you were on there with the some really incredible people, and I thought it was cool.
00;56;21;21 - 00;56;43;17
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. I think the panel I was on was fun. I got, talk with Stephan and Brian. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we had a nice representation of production for the people who wanted to come check that class out. Yeah. I think I thought it was a good, like, networking opportunity. Good place to find a potential bank to work with.
00;56;43;17 - 00;57;06;15
Unknown
Yeah. For sure. Find a point of sale, find security cameras. Find other people who are in the industry. Yeah. Yeah. Very different from, like, a legacy type of an event, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What year was this is like, right before Covid, I went through, the MGB was gone, and then I flew from there to the Emerald Cup race.
00;57;06;17 - 00;57;32;06
Unknown
And this is like seeing the Emerald Cup at the time, at least, was like. It was like a conference meets a music festival, meets a weed farmers market. So I got to see the flappers, zombies and smoke some orange creamsicle out in public. And yeah, I got to watch, what is his name? I'm going to forget, but he writes really good cannabis.
00;57;32;07 - 00;58;00;04
Unknown
Oh. How to books. Okay. Kyle Cushman was it Cushman? What's bugging me? But. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm kind of excited that we're not going to have the this was up in the summer because that just means better parties. Right. Yeah. Where we can actually sample product. Yeah. I really enjoy the the OG market and, and going to the underground parties.
00;58;00;04 - 00;58;18;10
Unknown
I think it's, it's always a good vibe. People are, you know, positive. And they just want to have a good time, like, listen to music, smoke their weed, you know, have something to eat. So, you know, it's a nice place to meet. Meet someone if you, you know, have needs going forward. And. Yeah. So I enjoy that scene quite a bit.
00;58;18;12 - 00;58;43;04
Unknown
Me too. Yeah. It's cool seeing that the juxtaposition too. I like the like I know it's going to be something cool when there like location TBD. Exactly. I'm like, I will wait. And then they send you a text like an hour before, and these people are going to come through. Yeah. You know. Yes they do. And then, so yeah, that's really fun.
00;58;43;07 - 00;58;59;08
Unknown
I'm looking forward to this weekend. There's going to be lots of things going on for, for 20. I'm excited as well. There's so much stuff all around the state. Yeah for sure. That's one thing that I always worry about a little bit. Is this the rest of the state? I feel like they, you know, they don't have access to cannabis like we do here.
00;58;59;08 - 00;59;17;09
Unknown
I mean, of course they have been accessing it in their special way that they have been for, you know, decades. But, you know, for people that maybe want to access a medical product or a hemp derived product because I don't think that market is going anywhere either. I don't think so. Yeah, because a lot of people say so, but I don't I don't think so.
00;59;17;09 - 00;59;42;27
Unknown
I think the drinks are pretty solid drinks, so they're not going to go anywhere. And I want I don't know this the answer to this but is the production of like THC drinks then is it different than hemp. And like the sustainability of it. Yeah, it's harder right. I think I think it's almost the same. Okay. It is because it's like you're just putting a water soluble product in whatever liquid, like it's water soluble is a misnomer.
00;59;43;00 - 01;00;02;10
Unknown
Falls in into a liquid. Gotcha. I think that it's it's much more efficient, I guess, to get it from cannabis. That is from him. But I think it's cheaper getting it from him. Because it can be grown. It's it's on a limited scale. Usually when people, people want to be able to access that low dose spot there.
01;00;02;10 - 01;00;19;16
Unknown
You know, that's a lot of that's the entry point for some folks, you know. And then to be able to like stack it. So if they want to like, you know, have a good time all day long, you know, just small little doses. It's nice. And I think, culturally too, like, I think that like my aunt, she'll never record that in a dispensary.
01;00;19;19 - 01;00;46;28
Unknown
Yeah. Or she go to the co co-op and get a drink for sure. Yeah, but it's giving her ID to somebody and waiting I that's something. That's her style. You don't think she'll ever break it down I ever. Okay. Yeah. So I but I think that there there's those people out there to it's like somebody who doesn't feel comfortable giving up their IDs and getting tracked, and, I think it's going to be an overwhelming experience for people that I've never done it to.
01;00;46;28 - 01;01;11;29
Unknown
I remember the first few times I went into dispensary, I'm like, okay, what are we doing here? You know, like there's a guy with a gun, but yeah, you I think you're like, okay, what do I do? You know, so I think, some places do a nice job though. I went to like Island Paget Passage. They have, you know, your personal shopper meets you at the door after you show them your ID, they take you through, show you the products, help you out.
01;01;11;29 - 01;01;34;07
Unknown
So, you know, there is going to have to be some type of like, a concierge, you know, element to it. I, I hope that there is. Anyway, so. Yeah. Something else I want to ask you about. Do you have any final thoughts? I'll do a shameless plug. Yeah. Do it. Since it's five.
01;01;34;10 - 01;01;58;29
Unknown
Since it's 530 now, one of my stories just went live. Oh, or articles. Okay, in the Star Tribune. Tell me about. It's about the history of 420. Awesome. What's going on? Okay, Minnesota. Okay, give us a little sneak preview. So the what they think. I'm sorry. I'm here last.
01;01;59;02 - 01;02;18;25
Unknown
So. Yeah. So there was a group of kids in California. They called themselves the Waldo's, and they would meet at a statue of Louis Pasteur, the chemists. Okay. And they were they use the term for 20 because they would meet there at 420. Okay. And then eventually the term kind of evolved into, hey, let's make it let's for 20.
01;02;19;00 - 01;02;46;28
Unknown
Yeah. And you know that the one of the Waldo's was a roadie for, I think it's the guitarist of the Grateful Dead. Okay, cool. And then the Grateful Dead kind of popularized it in North America. Okay. It kind of evolved into, like, this kind of, like, silent act of protest. People would go to the Capitol store of Capitol stairs and smoke weed on 420 on April 20th.
01;02;47;01 - 01;03;11;20
Unknown
So I think it evolved into a word of like, hey, let's, let's almost this international like act of defiance. And, and now it's like Christmas for for cannabis consumers. Yeah. And then the article kind of ends. Is this, like, where, where are cool things happening since, like, the hook and like we talked about off off air, the hook and ladders doing some fun stuff.
01;03;11;22 - 01;03;35;21
Unknown
Yeah. You know, cannabis bingo and egg hunts and, fashion show and comedy and, Morris is doing, like, their nine year anniversary. Surly is doing, like, this gourmet munchies event. He's, there's even, like, a group of bikers from the Bike Alliance doing, like, like a bike ride. It's kind of like, like a beer marathon.
01;03;35;21 - 01;03;56;11
Unknown
Where you cool? Where you run and then drink a beer and run some more, or there's going to be like, you bike around and stop and, you know, consume cannabis and ride around some more. That's cool. What's another cool one I saw? Like a song like a wind down sauna session? Kind of connects to. And, there's, the familiar skate shop.
01;03;56;11 - 01;04;24;25
Unknown
There's going to be like a barbecue and skate skate competition. I know that most of island pairs the sweetest grass and native carol hosting some form events. I know that. I'm pretty sure, that paddle has something going on. Music and a gathering. So there's just, like, really cool events. And I think that's cool to see. Like, cannabis is almost like, well, cannabis is cool now.
01;04;24;27 - 01;04;46;18
Unknown
Like, it was one of the first domesticated crops. And it, like, spread around the world so fast and people utilized it so thoroughly that, like, there is no, like, progenitor species like in corn, there's the original species corn came from still exists out there, but for cannabis it doesn't. So it's like I think that there's a cannabis as like this expression of of everyone.
01;04;46;21 - 01;05;07;11
Unknown
So there's like all this, all this cool stuff being done by all these different groups. It's like, what are you interested in? Even like a comment, like a I think it's 2020 Cowboys Garden. Yeah. They're doing a, cannabis comedy show. So it's it's like, what are you interested in? There's something going on. Yeah. And cannabis can be a part of it.
01;05;07;13 - 01;05;39;25
Unknown
Yeah. I saw, a woman on Instagram, Riley Kirk, she wrote a really great book recently. She's a cannabis scientist. She talked about how when she went to go do her headshots, there was like she went to a studio and it was like, clearly no smoking signs. And so she was like feeling kind of nervous, like she didn't pre-game well enough, you know, and she was like, you know, why do we have to think about when, though, she started talking to the guy who owned the studio and he was like, oh, go ahead and smoke, you know, no problem.
01;05;39;25 - 01;06;02;15
Unknown
So like, she got into this whole rolling it up and smoking, she started to kind of let loose and like, you know, she had a really great, really great headshot experience. And she her thoughts were, you know, why does cannabis always have to be thought of as like, we can only use it as, you know, for pain, sleep and, and, pain, sleep and anxiety, you know, why do we have to put it into a bucket hole?
01;06;02;15 - 01;06;37;07
Unknown
Why isn't it okay for there to be images of people rolling up cannabis, smoking cannabis, enjoying cannabis and like really living their best lives with it? You know, versus like seeing a beer commercial, you know, like these images should be equivalent if not elevate it because, you know, it's so much healthier for you. So I, I really, love to see images of people smoking and being in community with each other and enjoying cannabis because you're not going to see, you know, people falling down, you know, drunk or pass out.
01;06;37;07 - 01;07;03;12
Unknown
They're not going to be, you know, jumping off buildings or things like that. You know, they might they might be like giving a big puff of weed smoke from like a cannon or like under the canopy, but like they're still going to come out and be okay. So yeah, I just really, want to help promote those images of people like having a good time with cannabis and, like, everything's okay.
01;07;03;14 - 01;07;31;19
Unknown
You know, I think that I think that's one, one big space that, that we can work on in our industry is like, how do we how do we communicate that to a general audience with our cannabis experience? For sure, yeah, because I think they do. They have that image of like who smokes cannabis and what cannabis is until they try it and, and it will maybe prevent them from trying it, you know, which is sad, but, any other final thoughts?
01;07;31;21 - 01;07;48;04
Unknown
Well, I think we I think we covered that. We covered everything. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to see you all at some places this weekend. Yeah, to get into it. Thank you again for being here and for sharing your story, your insights on the industry and, just your general knowledge. I really appreciate it. It's been great getting to know you.
01;07;48;07 - 01;08;11;07
Unknown
Thank you very much. I think this is great. So that's it for conversations with Kush tonight. Please remember to like, share, comment, subscribe on the platform, on the YouTube platform, and also any of the, podcast platforms that you can listen to on audio. Make sure to interact with the, interact with the platform too. And I've always try to like answer questions back.
01;08;11;07 - 01;08;17;19
Unknown
So if you have any follow up questions for Clive, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer some. So thanks again. Have a great night.
01;08;17;19 - 01;08;26;24
Unknown
You.