Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Confessions of a Shop Owner is hosted by Mike Allen, a third-generation shop owner, perpetual pot-stirrer, and brutally honest opinion sharer. In this weekly podcast, Mike shares his missteps so you don’t have to repeat them. Along the way, he chats with other industry personalities who’ve messed up, too, pulling back the curtain on the realities of running an independent auto repair shop. But this podcast isn’t just about Mike’s journey. It’s about confronting the divisive and questionable tactics many shop owners and managers use. Mike is here to stir the pot and address the painful truths while offering a way forward. Together, we’ll tackle the frustrations, shake things up, and help create a better future for the auto repair industry.
Mike Allen [00:00:00]:
Two weeks ago, somebody reached out to him via Facebook messenger and said that they were one of my technicians and they needed help with a job and he helped them out. And he was like, hey, did your guy get. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And he sent me Instagram. I was like, I have no idea who that guy is.
Chris Enright [00:00:15]:
Oh, no way.
Mike Allen [00:00:16]:
That was fucking hilarious.
Jeff Compton [00:00:19]:
Whoever that tech is, you are a piece of work. Yeah, I'm not going to cost majority. Like, that's just like, that's next level.
Chris Enright [00:00:29]:
That's crazy.
Mike Allen [00:00:29]:
That's a future evil shop owner.
Mike Allen [00:00:33]:
The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we or our guests may say do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have. There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, it's time for Confessions of a Shop Owner with your host, Mike Allen.
Mike Allen [00:01:06]:
So anyway, as we were agreeing, French people are the worst.
Jeff Compton [00:01:09]:
They are. If you have never driven around them, they are something to be seen.
Mike Allen [00:01:14]:
What to worst French people or Florida retirees?
Jeff Compton [00:01:19]:
I think the ultimate would be a French retiree. Yes. That has come to Chapel Hill to get their vehicle serviced. And they're driving around the.
Mike Allen [00:01:30]:
Driving a Citron.
Jeff Compton [00:01:31]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:01:31]:
Oh my gosh.
Jeff Compton [00:01:32]:
Driving a Tesla.
Mike Allen [00:01:34]:
Those froggy bastards.
Jeff Compton [00:01:35]:
Yeah, yeah. They are like anybody that if you've never driven in Montreal, it is something to see. It's kind of like every car that we've ridden in as a cab so far. But they're not cabs, they're just people. That's how they treat their cars there. And you know, you get in and it's like, oh, look at the whole dash is lit up. Oh, look, the tire sounds like it's going to leave the chat any minute.
Mike Allen [00:01:53]:
They're treating them like we treated the Side by Sides last night in the desert.
Jeff Compton [00:01:56]:
Oh, pretty much.
Mike Allen [00:01:58]:
So we drove out, right out by Nellis last night and rented Side by Sides and thank you, Braxton. Did our level best to destroy them.
Chris Enright [00:02:09]:
Oh, dang.
Mike Allen [00:02:10]:
And somehow managed to fail. But I feel like we could have gotten there if we had another hour or so.
Jeff Compton [00:02:15]:
I can tell you that Mike definitely thermocycled that transfer case in that poor Kawasaki side by side more than it has ever been in its life.
Mike Allen [00:02:25]:
So we're getting the briefing in the rental place and they're like, look, stay in two wheel drive. You do not need four wheel Drive on these trails and two, four switch on the dash. Has it whited out over the four wheel drive with no in white out on the dash so you can pull it out of the parking lot. I went forward the whole.
Jeff Compton [00:02:47]:
Mike's like I'm not standing. And then he gets, he gets under power. So at one point we're going down this, this trail and Mike hits 39 miles an hour in this, in this side by side. And he's. And we're in four wheel drive, just panday. And he's like, oh my God, it steers so much better in four wheel drive. Well then it never came out of four wheel drive. And oh it was.
Jeff Compton [00:03:08]:
I have a blister on my thing from holding onto the holy crap handle and I have a blister right there. And it's like. It's a new one to go with all the other ones. But it was a good time. Only once did I bite my tongue cuz I was like. And then we hit this thing and snap.
Mike Allen [00:03:23]:
You did make, you did make some so sounds a couple times.
Jeff Compton [00:03:27]:
It's not the, it's not the, the wide open or the, or the inclines or the. Felt like we never felt like we're going to flip over. But the, the, the trails are like yeah.
Mike Allen [00:03:35]:
The whoops. We'd start.
Jeff Compton [00:03:36]:
The bottom just drops right out. And how many times we hit the skid plate on the ground.
Mike Allen [00:03:41]:
Not my 20. Buy a rental vehicle.
Jeff Compton [00:03:45]:
It was, it was. We smelled the belt, we smelled the oil. Like oh my. All the machines when you're running behind them, it's just a cloud of smoke coming out of the back of the engine.
Chris Enright [00:03:53]:
Oh yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:03:54]:
Like crazy.
Mike Allen [00:03:55]:
I'll tell you. I would say that Braxton was probably the second craziest or fastest driver of us. And then Josh Parnell and then Lucas kind of. Josh.
Chris Enright [00:04:09]:
Josh Parnell, he was the slowest. He's the one that got lost at the end.
Jeff Compton [00:04:14]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:04:14]:
Because he was I just so behind. I was just trying to make Lucas last place is what that was.
Jeff Compton [00:04:20]:
And I didn't drive at all. I just sat.
Mike Allen [00:04:22]:
We tried to get him to drive, but I think you were, I think you were rattled, brother.
Jeff Compton [00:04:25]:
I was a little rattled. And I was like finding it really hard to see in the sun. Yeah. And then I'm like, you know what? The last thing I want to do is kill someone coming over a hill and be blinded and like drive.
Chris Enright [00:04:34]:
To make it to his 50th birthday.
Mike Allen [00:04:36]:
You want him to be a passenger in the vehicle that came over the hill at 40 miles an hour and clipped a dirt biker.
Jeff Compton [00:04:42]:
My sunglasses were bouncing around on the floor. It was a good time. Bottle of water everywhere, flying all over the place. You know what's crazy is I had.
Chris Enright [00:04:49]:
And running cameras while you're also trying to talk is actually a lot harder than I thought it would be. But I, I had my sixteen hundred dollar brand new MacBook in the back of the side by side. So it was in my backpack, but it was in the floorboard of the back seat.
Mike Allen [00:05:10]:
So not, not super bright.
Chris Enright [00:05:12]:
Thankfully it works this morning.
Jeff Compton [00:05:14]:
You know, I would say up to.
Mike Allen [00:05:16]:
This point in, in our working relationship, I've always thought of you as a, as a pretty intelligent guy.
Jeff Compton [00:05:21]:
But that you don't know me well enough, apparently.
Mike Allen [00:05:23]:
Prove me wrong.
Jeff Compton [00:05:24]:
Yes.
Chris Enright [00:05:24]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:05:26]:
Anyway. Chris Enright. What's up, man?
Chris Enright [00:05:28]:
Not much, man.
Mike Allen [00:05:30]:
It's day one of SEMAT and Apex.
Chris Enright [00:05:33]:
It is.
Mike Allen [00:05:34]:
And we're here on the Apex floor, just tucked in behind Joe's garage in a fishbowl. People walking by, taking pictures. Justin Allen going by, taking pictures right now. What do you think so far?
Jeff Compton [00:05:48]:
Huge. Yeah, it's something.
Chris Enright [00:05:50]:
There's. Everybody told me it was big, but like until you actually get here, there's just no, like, there's no way to understand it. No way to really fathom how massive this place is. This is crazy. It's awesome though.
Mike Allen [00:06:00]:
And you haven't been able to see me yet, right?
Chris Enright [00:06:01]:
No, I went yesterday, but everything was locked off so I couldn't actually get in anywhere. So I have no idea what size.
Mike Allen [00:06:06]:
So this is one floor of two, right, for Apex. And it's by itself would be the biggest trade show event in, in the country. Right. SEMA is, we think, four times larger than this.
Chris Enright [00:06:20]:
At least five times larger than this.
Jeff Compton [00:06:21]:
At least.
Mike Allen [00:06:22]:
That's crazy. It's.
Jeff Compton [00:06:24]:
You can't see it. You can't see SEMA all by itself in the four days that you're allotted to see it, let alone trying to make it back and forth between SEMA and Apex to see it. So if you, if you come here, you got to pick like, oh, I really want to see Harbor Freight Tools or I really want to see Milwaukee over there. But I also want to see all this Apex stuff. You've got to really schedule your day out so that you can fit it all in like you know it. It's. I came last year was the first year for me and I was. And I, you know, everybody's heard me talk.
Jeff Compton [00:06:50]:
I've been wanting to come since I before I had a driver's license, right. And then I get here and I'm like, my God, like, it is massive.
Chris Enright [00:06:59]:
Something else.
Jeff Compton [00:06:59]:
There's so much here. More than you can see.
Mike Allen [00:07:02]:
I'm trying a new hack that I was told by a bunch of vendors who come to these shows all the time. They said that you bring two pairs of shoes and you change your shoes at lunch.
Jeff Compton [00:07:11]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:07:12]:
And it makes your feet last longer before they start to really kill you.
Chris Enright [00:07:15]:
Well, that's a great idea.
Mike Allen [00:07:16]:
Well, I was talking about that the other day and Jeff pointed out that's because you're kind of a pussy, Mike. Because technicians stand on their feet all day every day and that's the point there, doesn't wear out.
Jeff Compton [00:07:24]:
So just for this record, I didn't actually call you that. I just said because you were like.
Mike Allen [00:07:28]:
It was heavily implied.
Jeff Compton [00:07:29]:
Yeah, it was heavily implied. I did not use the term passive aggressive again. I'm Canadian. That's how we do. And because I said it's the same thing like us, we're just used to standing on our feet, you know, all day long. So for me, walking is no big deal. And, and it's like, I'm just noticing I don't have big clunky work boots on. So it's a little bit different support footwise than what I'm used to wearing all day long.
Jeff Compton [00:07:52]:
But I'm like, this is nothing for me to walk all day long. Nothing.
Mike Allen [00:07:55]:
What do you guys think about having robots to deliver parts around the shop? That seems like a ridiculous amount of money to spend for parts delivery in. In the building.
Jeff Compton [00:08:06]:
Well, how big a shop are we talking about?
Mike Allen [00:08:08]:
There's a robot driving by with four quarts of mobile one on it.
Chris Enright [00:08:12]:
So I think that. I'm sure there's a, like, I'm sure there is analytics and data to. To prove why it would be efficient, but I think that it's a lack of efficiency somewhere else in the shop that they're trying to make.
Jeff Compton [00:08:25]:
I'm going to.
Mike Allen [00:08:25]:
Maybe if you've got like a 50 bay shop or something, some enormous garage Mahal.
Jeff Compton [00:08:29]:
I'm going to put my hand up right now and I'm going to say the first one you're probably going to see on that rocking it is going to be rocking a stroker's diesel emblem because that would be the amount of square footage that. That could actually come in pretty handy to have.
Chris Enright [00:08:41]:
Yeah, like there definitely need to be like, yeah, a huge shop to make it.
Jeff Compton [00:08:45]:
I mean, if your shop is big enough that you're rolling around on roller skates or skateboards to go back from bay to bay.
Mike Allen [00:08:51]:
I'm gonna have to go to their booth and find out how much one of those cost because I don't care. That's got to be a $10,000 robot.
Chris Enright [00:08:55]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:08:56]:
Plus you got to set up the mapping of the facility and probably have to have sensors around the facility or some shit. What happens if the WI fi goes down? Does your rope, does your robot like rebel and start killing techs?
Chris Enright [00:09:08]:
I mean, it probably runs off a GPS throwing.
Jeff Compton [00:09:12]:
Throwing the oil. Right. Technician, ball joint.
Chris Enright [00:09:15]:
What if you're dead and you have no parts to deliver and you've got this $10,000.
Mike Allen [00:09:19]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:09:19]:
Delivery robot just sitting there doing nothing.
Mike Allen [00:09:21]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:09:21]:
And the techs don't want to wait.
Mike Allen [00:09:23]:
On because the $15 an hour high school kid can at least mop and take out the trash. Right.
Chris Enright [00:09:27]:
Well, I mean, they're not fast. So to me, as a flat rate tech, when I was at the dealership, I would have been like, I can go to the parts counter, get my parts faster than I can wait for this guy.
Jeff Compton [00:09:35]:
So you had better parts guys than I did? Obviously.
Chris Enright [00:09:39]:
Well, we would just go back into the parts room and handle business.
Jeff Compton [00:09:42]:
Oh, yeah. See, I. I threatened to jump the counter a couple of times, and once or twice when I did, I got a very stern talking to about you're not to be on that side of the counter. And I'm like, okay, cool. But you know that guy over there that's playing with his fidget spinner? I need that oil filter to get this waiter oil change done. So if you could help me out with that, that would be great. I don't have fidget spinners.
Chris Enright [00:10:02]:
35 years ago.
Mike Allen [00:10:05]:
This is your 70th birthday.
Jeff Compton [00:10:07]:
This is my 50th birthday. But yeah, my last. My last kick at a dealership job. Yeah, he had a fidget spinner. And I was like.
Mike Allen [00:10:16]:
I was gonna say work. Show me on the doll where the fidget spinner touched you because you seem to have some anger about the fidget spinner.
Jeff Compton [00:10:21]:
It just, he was, he was a special individual. He was not a. Not a bad kid. Just he. He didn't grasp that, like, time is money. Yeah, I guess is a way to.
Mike Allen [00:10:33]:
Say that's because his income was not at all related to efficiency.
Jeff Compton [00:10:37]:
Didn't matter If I made 20 hours that day or he made. Or I made two.
Mike Allen [00:10:42]:
But the parts kid had. He had no skin in the game on helping you be more efficient.
Chris Enright [00:10:46]:
Yeah, you can't have Everybody else commission based and then not have your parts people commission based. That doesn't work. Either everybody does or nobody does, I feel like.
Jeff Compton [00:10:53]:
But so again, here's the wrinkle though. We can put everybody and say that if we hit a goal, you get a kick, but if we make the goal post so far, then nobody's really working for that. And I go back to that dangling carrot analogy they keep talking about because it's the same as they punished a really good service advisor by he sold a bunch of tires that month, he hit a bonus, and then they said next month, no, tires don't count towards that. And all of a sudden, if you ever wanted to see somebody's motivation and love for their employer deflate, you just needed to watch that. So to me, it's the same as the CSI thing. It's just a dangling carrot.
Mike Allen [00:11:31]:
That's kind of the nature of commission based sales positions. And I mean vendors will hear this too, because all of the reps from the different vendor companies that we use that come by, they're all commission based sales guys. Yeah, they hit the goal and the goal post moves for the next game.
Jeff Compton [00:11:47]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:11:48]:
Constantly. Because the name of the game is growth. Right? So I mean, goalpost doesn't change for you guys. I mean, if you're a flat rate tech, it's just crank some fucking hours, man. Get it done. Right. So could be worse. She could be an outside salesman for a parts store.
Jeff Compton [00:12:06]:
But see, in order for the technician to crank hours, Chris knows this. You have to have the advisor be able to sell the hour and you have to have the customer in the shop. So what can happen is too many times the advisor, if they see no way that they're going to get, you know, any more money from this. No matter how I, I table Mrs. Jones a $2,000 estimate. And I know Mrs. Jones came in already saying that like things are tough right now. If you're not going to table that estimate to Mrs.
Jeff Compton [00:12:33]:
Jones, then you're a liability. I want you off that position because Chris has to make hours. I have to make hours.
Mike Allen [00:12:40]:
Mrs. Jones financial position does not have any effect on whether or not her oil is leaking.
Jeff Compton [00:12:45]:
Right, but it might not.
Mike Allen [00:12:46]:
And she still deserves to know that it's leaking 100%. Now obviously it'll have an impact on how comfortable she is approving the repair. Right, but that's, yeah, but it definitely.
Jeff Compton [00:12:57]:
Has an impact on how they table it to Mrs. Jones. Right. If you think Mrs. Jones might have the money to do it, you're going to give a much more enthusiastic, enthusiastic presentation of why it's imperative to do it than if you. She already came to you and told you that I don't feel like I can afford anything but this oil change right now. Your, your presentation to Mr. Jones is going to be different.
Jeff Compton [00:13:18]:
It shouldn't be, but it's going to be. Everybody I've ever worked with.
Mike Allen [00:13:23]:
I hear a common refrain among technician heavy shops or technician minded shops and then technicians that are vocal on social media and whatnot. And it's that, you know, techs are getting fucked, evil shop owner, you know, whatever the tropes are. But it's like, well, you don't understand. If the owner doesn't do his job and get the phone to ring and the advisor doesn't do their job to get the car in the door and to present everything and get the sales done, my performance based pay is negatively impacted before I even have a chance to put a wrench on a car.
Jeff Compton [00:14:01]:
That's right, totally true.
Mike Allen [00:14:03]:
But you know what if the service advisor, the technician has 500 fucking comebacks or misdiagnoses everything or takes three hours to do an oil change, their commission based job, they can't. Or if the owner doesn't make the phone ring. Right, right. And if the owner makes the phone ring all day long but the advisor is lazy or incompetent or the technician is late. So I mean there's three legs of the stool and all three of them rely upon the other two for success and they're all performance based whether they like it or not. Right. So I feel like there's, there's a degree of woe as me. Oh, gnashing of teeth.
Mike Allen [00:14:45]:
Technicians get screwed all the time. Technicians get screwed. Service advisors get screwed, owners get screwed. The problem is failure of management or failure of ownership to develop the right processes and execute on them. And look, this is a little self conviction for me because I've got real process issues in my company that we're working on and we've been talking about, we can't talk about it here yet but you know, I don't know where got on a soapbox there and lost my point.
Chris Enright [00:15:17]:
But I, I think no matter what. And you're right, like it is like a woe is me and it's everybody's pointing fingers at everybody. You see a lot of that. But I still to this day hold this as the main issue of our industry is communication.
Jeff Compton [00:15:32]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:15:33]:
You see it in all of the shop owners groups, you see it on social media, you see it everywhere. It's always a communication issue. I think every single issue in our industry can be pointed back to some sort of lack of or bad communication, miscommunication. Some sort of communication whether that's somebody trying to sell a client something they don't need, they're communicating that wrongly because they're getting commission based pay. Whether they're not telling them what they need because they're scared they're not going to do the job because they're, they're hitting them with a $6,000 estimate. Well, you didn't make the car, you didn't break it, you're just telling them what's wrong with it. It's always communication. Whether it's management not communicating with tax techs, not communicating with advisors, advisors not communicating with text or the client.
Chris Enright [00:16:16]:
There's always some sort of communication breakdown somewhere no matter what. Or the owner comes into the shop owners group is like oh my guy made a mistake. Should I charge him for the problem? How many times are we going to see that post before I punch somebody in the face?
Jeff Compton [00:16:29]:
I know it makes me want to drive my car over there and like shake them.
Chris Enright [00:16:32]:
No, it's so dumb.
Mike Allen [00:16:33]:
And I is back flagging even legal.
Chris Enright [00:16:36]:
I mean certain states you can do it. They would do it at the dealership that I worked at all the time. But here's I'm going to tell any technicians that ever listen to this. I told my service manager when I worked at the dealership, I said if you ever back flag me, it'll be the day that I quit.
Jeff Compton [00:16:50]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:16:51]:
And guess what? They never back flagged me. And we also had what we called the $500 Club because that was our insurance deductible or whatever. So if you like scratched a car, dented a car, messed up a car or something and they would charge you the 500 deductible. Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:17:07]:
Am I told about this?
Chris Enright [00:17:09]:
I told them both, I said if you guys ever back flag me or ever try to charge me for this deductible, that'll be the day I leave this dealership. And never once because there's technicians that can't be legal.
Jeff Compton [00:17:21]:
If you agree to it, it's legal.
Chris Enright [00:17:23]:
The, the thing is it's like yeah.
Mike Allen [00:17:25]:
And what are they going to Power dynamics at play.
Chris Enright [00:17:27]:
I see it in like private messages to me all the time where technicians, they, I think they maybe know but they're still scared to like they don't really understand how much value they have. And don't get me wrong, like I always have to reiterate this, yes, there are technicians that suck and think they're better than what they are. That's a hundred percent a true. But there are really good technicians out there that are stuck at indie shops, in dealerships, chain shops that are very good, that allow these places to push them around and do stuff that they should not be doing. And it blows my mind. You're worth more. You have much more valuable. And that company needs you more than you realize.
Chris Enright [00:18:10]:
Now I'm not saying you hold them hostage. Like, you're not going to go in there and be like, oh, you're going to pay me $200,000 a year and never, you know, I can make as many mistakes as I want. Like, there obviously has to be a line drawn in the sand. But also you're not going to be letting them charge you 500 for a freaking insurance deductible because you made a simple honest mistake. Yeah, if you're making the mistake five times a week, then they fire you. That's the repercussions of making a lot of mistakes. This stuff happens all the time.
Jeff Compton [00:18:37]:
I have a story to tell and it's going to shock you. I worked at a shop where their policy was, it was called A dollar a day and they took a dollar a day off your pay. And when I was hired, it wasn't explained to me what it actually was. It was just a cover. And it's. Of course you get handed your first paycheck and there's like, oh, I worked 10 days and there's $10 missing. Yeah, that's just dollar day. That covers incidentals around the shop.
Jeff Compton [00:18:55]:
What do you mean by incidental? Oh, you know, sometimes like missing rags that don't get returned to the uniform company or something like that. That's where all that comes from. Well, and you go, okay, no problem, sign that right. It can mean that what they were doing is instead of back flagging you or say you pulled your car into the shop hoist and you hit the tire and puncture the sidewall of the tire. That's where your dollar a day came from.
Mike Allen [00:19:20]:
That is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life, Mike.
Jeff Compton [00:19:24]:
I wish I could tell you that it was only one shop that I've ever seen do this.
Chris Enright [00:19:26]:
Why not just charge an extra dol repair order?
Mike Allen [00:19:29]:
Wait, wait, wait.
Jeff Compton [00:19:30]:
What I mean was.
Mike Allen [00:19:30]:
Wait, let me. We're gonna have. We're have to edit this. Brexon. That's the smartest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'M totally gonna. So f. That's evil.
Mike Allen [00:19:40]:
Shop owner.
Jeff Compton [00:19:41]:
So a technician that actually left that shop where I had worked because it had not been laid out to him exactly what it meant after he was done and had left there, he then sued them and got all that money back, several years worth. So like I keep telling everybody, like, as a technician, know exactly what your rights are and how you should be treated. And if, listen, if, if you, if you need a job and they want to do that to you and you sign up for it, I don't have any hate on you. But understand what it is exactly that they're telling you is that we're going to take money that you have earned for mistakes you might make. And if you never make a mistake, oh well, we still put the money in our pocket and. Because you'd be sure, like, and I wouldn't mind. Hey, okay, no problem. Like, I, I, but it's like they're.
Mike Allen [00:20:26]:
Forcing you to buy insurance.
Chris Enright [00:20:28]:
Yeah, potential.
Jeff Compton [00:20:30]:
Well, they don't want to pay the deductible, right?
Mike Allen [00:20:31]:
Well, that's what insurance is, right? You pay forever and hopefully never use it. And they get to keep the money if they don't ever use it.
Chris Enright [00:20:35]:
Right.
Jeff Compton [00:20:36]:
So luckily I was like Chris, when I worked in the dealer, they never back flagged me for nothing. They didn't have to worry too much because if I miss a diagnose the car, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try and work for free to make it right now.
Chris Enright [00:20:45]:
That's flat rate. That's that the repercussions of doing crappy work. And flat rate, if it's at least a halfway decent run shop where the guy who screwed it up gets it back, but he's getting paid flat rate.
Jeff Compton [00:20:55]:
Say I fix a car on Tuesday and on Saturday, say Mrs. Jones drives in and I'm not working Saturday. And it's something completely unrelated to me. But they try and get, you know, they take an hour off my pay to pay technician B to look at it. That wouldn't, I'd be, Monday morning, I'd be rolling my toolbox. That's just the way I was.
Chris Enright [00:21:14]:
They tried that too. Like, if I wasn't there, give like one of my comebacks and I'm like, that's not like I'm making.
Jeff Compton [00:21:19]:
Firstly, it's not a comeback, right? Like the car didn't start and I put a battery in it and now it's got a brake noise. That's not a comeback. But they would try this kind of stuff, Mike. So when you hear us like, what was me? We're not what was me. It's just, it's a situation of like, we've seen them do it and we know the games. And this is, this is the beauty of Chris and mine, our platform is we're starting to expose the game that have been done to us or played or whatever you want to call it. And it's like, cool. All right.
Jeff Compton [00:21:44]:
The average technician age is 43. If you think too many 43 year old guys walking around that have done this now for 30 years are going to accept that, you're crazy.
Mike Allen [00:21:54]:
Well, they didn't start working when they were 13, so, yeah, a lot of us listen, a lot of them actually did.
Chris Enright [00:22:02]:
There was a guy that messaged me not too long. He got a new job since then, but he messaged me. And he worked for a shop that they paid him no vacation time. And they shut the shop down mandatory. And they had it while his boss went on vacation. He shut the shop down and he did not get paid. He had no vacation. I said, why in God's name are you working on? You need to go interview somewhere else.
Chris Enright [00:22:23]:
He went interviewed somewhere else and they offered him, I think it was like 12 or $15 more on the hour vacation time. I'm like. But they.
Mike Allen [00:22:29]:
Well, there are dudes who have been somewhere for so long.
Chris Enright [00:22:32]:
Yes.
Mike Allen [00:22:33]:
And they're just, you know, better the devil you know. Right. So one of the things that you said a minute ago was, you know, there's so many techs out there that.
Jeff Compton [00:22:44]:
Are.
Mike Allen [00:22:44]:
I mean, there are texts that are underpaid because they don't know because they've been in the same place for so long. And then there are techs out there who have, you know, 25 years old, they're, you know, six years out of tech school. They're moving into that prime space right. When they come in and they've heard you guys and they're like, I'm going to need a $200,000 salary and I'm the best thing since sliced, and I'm.
Jeff Compton [00:23:08]:
Not buying my effing tools. So go out there and buy it.
Mike Allen [00:23:12]:
That is such bullshit trope. It's. It's no other industry. Do you have to go spend a hundred thousand dollars in tools? One, motherfucker, you don't have a hundred thousand dollars in tools because I've seen a hundred thousand dollars in tools. And that's not what you've got.
Chris Enright [00:23:24]:
You just come look at my box.
Jeff Compton [00:23:26]:
A lot of sunglasses and beef jerky.
Mike Allen [00:23:28]:
And two, I was in the audience for a technician, a technician panel. I was at that and I was like, hey, show of hands. How many of you would go to work at a shop where they supplied the box and the tools and you used company tools and none of them raised their hand because I want my own tools. You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about having to buy your own tools and then refuse to work somewhere that supplies tools.
Chris Enright [00:23:54]:
When it comes to tools. And it's something I know very well.
Jeff Compton [00:23:57]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:23:57]:
There are seems to be three camps. There are guys like me that just like tools and I just like spending money on tools. It's my hobby. Like I tell people all the time, I'm like, I don't do porn, only fans. Drugs, cigarettes, alcohol. That's not my thing. If you want.
Mike Allen [00:24:10]:
Wait, so you're saying I could have a better life if I didn't do those five things?
Chris Enright [00:24:13]:
Yes. Only feet.
Jeff Compton [00:24:15]:
Better is not the right word.
Mike Allen [00:24:16]:
Only feet.com.
Chris Enright [00:24:17]:
Bronco.
Mike Allen [00:24:20]:
So.
Chris Enright [00:24:20]:
But yeah, like that. That's what I like. It's my hobby. And also I make money at it now for social media, but I just always love tools. And then there's the guys that buy them because they know, like, a better quality tool does help the job. Or having that one tool that, yes, you may only use twice a year, but when you have it, my God, it. You love that tool because it makes that job so much easier. And they want like this just the stress off their mind.
Chris Enright [00:24:43]:
And then you have this camp that doesn't want to spend any money and they think that anything outside of just a wrench, hammer, pliers, and an impact is useless. And oh, I got to spend all this money. I feel like those are like the bottom feeders of the industry or they're old boomers that have been in the industry for 50 years and just mad because they've been mistreated for so long. And I'm not discounting the mistreatment because that does happen. But don't make up stuff and be like, oh, you got to spend all this money. There's never been a better time to be a technician than right now. There's never been a better time for tools where they're cheaper, just as good a quality with just as good of warranty as any of the tool trucks, any of the higher name brands.
Mike Allen [00:25:28]:
It is Icon Tools.
Chris Enright [00:25:30]:
There you go. And that's, that's the thing. Like it's. If you're listening, icon, they need a sponsor. So Harbor Freight, let's go. But that's. There's never been a better time. And you're right.
Chris Enright [00:25:41]:
And I, I was at that, the panel that you were at. They, I think they have it in their mind that they would like it, but most technicians want to buy specific tools that they want.
Mike Allen [00:25:54]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:25:55]:
And I'm okay with that. I. What one point I wanted to make is I think that as owners, if a technician is expecting like $200,000 or whatever. Okay, that's fine. Here is what you would need to generate in profit dollars to justify that. And this, we could do this. If you can make this much gross profit dollars, I will pay you or whatever the metric that you would need.
Mike Allen [00:26:21]:
Let's do that. Let's do that. Mental exercise real quick. Break out the calculator.
Chris Enright [00:26:25]:
So this would be a great, this is great because I had, well, I used to, I, my, all of my notes. I have to redo that. Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:26:30]:
You lost your tablet.
Chris Enright [00:26:31]:
Oh, so, so frustrating.
Mike Allen [00:26:33]:
I pay weekly. So $200,000 is 38. Let's call it 3850 a week. It's 3846 and change. So 3850 a week. And let's say that they're going to work 45 hours in a week. Yeah, I think that's reasonable. Yeah, yeah.
Mike Allen [00:26:46]:
So that's $85.50 an hour, roughly. Yeah. So we're going to discount flat rate. Right. Because I think, you know, for better, for worse, flat rate's dying. And so let's say that they're an hourly employee. So what does an employee need to produce revenue wise to justify $85 an hour? 85.50 an hour.
Chris Enright [00:27:14]:
It's 30%, right.
Mike Allen [00:27:16]:
I mean, depends on who you talk to. Let's call it 30%. So that means they need to produce one to one for the time that they're there and that your effective labor rate has to be $284 an hour.
Chris Enright [00:27:28]:
Yeah, that ain't happening.
Jeff Compton [00:27:29]:
It's a big number.
Chris Enright [00:27:30]:
I mean, some shops. Yeah. Like Euro, like high end euro shops.
Mike Allen [00:27:33]:
I mean, 1/10 of 1% of shops.
Jeff Compton [00:27:35]:
Right.
Chris Enright [00:27:36]:
It's not a lot.
Mike Allen [00:27:36]:
Not for now. There are some dudes out there, like, I got a 300 labor rate, you know, in like San Francisco. Right. Or like on the island Manhattan, you know. But that's their labor. What's their effective labor rate? Yeah, because you're not charging $300 an hour to do that flat tire repair.
Chris Enright [00:27:51]:
No, no. Well, most dealerships and places like that have so many menu for their effective labor. Rates? Yeah, that's our dealership. My service manager, when the new service manager took over, he like went to some training and came back and like started changing everything, changing all the prices. Like our effective labor rate sucks.
Mike Allen [00:28:08]:
I jack up the Math. It was $259 an hour.
Chris Enright [00:28:11]:
259? Yeah, it's a little bit more, it sounds a little bit more obtainable, but that's still way above my labor rate, which is already not like the highest, but it's pretty high in the area. I mean, compared to dealerships.
Jeff Compton [00:28:22]:
It's not the tech and tool thing. I think it's going back to if the technicians are going to say, I'm going to supply all the tools. And I think this is where the conversation comes in is like my, my guest this morning on today's episode, he, he has a J box. Right. So all of the diagnostic stuff that's essentially being done in that shop, Orion Shop, is all equipment that Ryan has purchased on his own. So now Ryan's not getting paid his regular flat rate hour. When he's doing that, he's now billing his employer a flat rate fee of $200 to update software, whatever. It could be higher, right.
Jeff Compton [00:28:52]:
Depending on what it is. Because he's, he's responsible for the subscriptions, he's responsible for the equipment, he's responsible for the time everything is on Ryan. It's almost like a subcontract within the building itself. Technicians, I think when we, when we talk about this tool thing, it's like they think we want to walk in and everything be provided. That would be great for some starting out. That might be great. But here's the thing. We just don't want to be like, go out there and tell me why that car is running poorly.
Jeff Compton [00:29:16]:
Okay, I need a fuel pressure gauge. Oh, we don't have that. You don't have a fuel pressure gauge? Well, it used to fit whatever, you know, 1996 is. Throttle body, injector stuff doesn't fit into this brand new Audi. Okay, cool. Whose responsibility is it now, Mike, to go and get that tool to be able to do that next test on that car? The technician or the shop?
Mike Allen [00:29:35]:
I think it depends on the business. Right. I feel like that's a shops gig.
Jeff Compton [00:29:41]:
Right.
Chris Enright [00:29:41]:
So I mean, I agree.
Mike Allen [00:29:43]:
So shop Tools is. Is a question to have another conversation on. Right. So I think that eventually we need to move to a space where all of the tools are provided by the business. But if the business provides all of the tools, then the technician no longer needs $50 an hour. Because they don't have to buy their own tools.
Jeff Compton [00:30:06]:
Yeah, right.
Mike Allen [00:30:08]:
Hey, it's me, Mike's kid. Want to tell us your wild shop stories? Or maybe you just think my dad's totally wrong. Call us at 704 confess and leave a message. You can tell us we're awesome, or you can tell us we're idiots. We're cool either way. That's 704 confess. Just don't make it too weird.
Chris Enright [00:30:27]:
That's how they do it in California, I think. Right. Like, you get paid a different rate.
Mike Allen [00:30:30]:
If you supply any tools.
Jeff Compton [00:30:32]:
Yes.
Chris Enright [00:30:32]:
You supply. They have to pay you, like, more money. Or if the shop supplies the tools and they pay you less, which I think is a great. I mean, I'm fine with that as well. And I. I've said this for so long, like, I don't think any specialty tool technicians, like, when I do my videos and like, the. The tire. The digital tread gauges, because people freak out about those every time.
Chris Enright [00:30:50]:
$500. I'm like, no technician on planet Earth should be buying this. This is not a technician purchase.
Jeff Compton [00:30:56]:
Stop.
Chris Enright [00:30:56]:
Like, they just. They just assume that, oh, this is just another tool that someone. No, that is not something you should ever have to buy. That's for a shop owner to buy for the shop if they want reports and, you know, all of that stuff to add to their DVI or their whatever process. Same with scan tools. Like, same idea. The shop should be providing scan tools, whether that's a couple large scan tools to do everything and then smaller scan tools for each tech. But I like what David said a long time ago on one of the podcasts is, he said, you know, it's like a deal.
Chris Enright [00:31:28]:
They buy you a scan tool for $1,000 after a year, it's your scan tool. You get to keep it. If you quit in six months, you want to keep it, you pay them $500 and it's your scan tool. If you stay the rest of the year or if you quit and you don't want to keep it, the shop keeps it, you don't pay anything, and you're good to go.
Jeff Compton [00:31:45]:
So I think the tool thing is, like, sometimes the techs on the bay in the shop know more about what is really needed day to day than sometimes the owners. I'm gonna say, in terms of what's coming in. Right. We can talk. Doesn't have to be tool. It could be software. If. If the technician is always running into roadblocks that affect the production of the business, not just production of the shop production of the business because you don't have an invested person to come into and say, hey, we're really running into this a lot.
Jeff Compton [00:32:12]:
And we need keys, programming, nasta, you know, certification, you know, all this kind of stuff. I can't, I can't get into Chrysler, you know, secure gateways, all these different things. If you're coming to them all the time and saying we're not able to do this, this, this, this and this and this and this. If the technician is going to make that happen for you, cool. But they're no longer now a $32 an hour technician. They're like a $62 an hour technician because they're going to go out and take that extra $30, put it into their repertoire to help you make money.
Mike Allen [00:32:43]:
So I think there are a couple different ways to come at it, right? And I don't know, gosh, 10, 12, 15 years ago, I don't remember, I bought an IDS and a Y Tech and a Tech 2. So that tells you it was a while ago. Yeah, those were the tools because I wanted to have the OEM tooling because that's what everybody said you were supposed to do. I don't fucking know. Right. I just went and wrote the check. Yeah. At the same time, if you have a 1 through a 8 when you work with me, you get $50 a week on the tool truck and you can't use it on, you can't use it on hats and beef jerky.
Mike Allen [00:33:19]:
It has to be on tooling. And so most of the dudes went out and bought top end snap on diagnostic equipment with that stipend. Right. And so none of them want to use the OEM tools because they got this cool fucking tool on their box. Right. And so eventually I just stopped buying OEM tooling because nobody was using it because they were using the tool stipend that we provided to buy their own stuff. And you know, so I, I probably set myself up for failure in that capacity.
Jeff Compton [00:33:50]:
Well, sometimes it's what they're familiar with, right. The snap on platform or the Autel.
Mike Allen [00:33:54]:
Platform, maybe it's faster to boot up and faster to connect.
Chris Enright [00:33:57]:
It is usually on most of that stuff. And if you're just doing basic stuff, yeah, you don't want to hook up all the software and the passer module and stuff. So I do understand that. But also I guess you could put like some sort of stipulation on it where like, you know, this is for hand tools and power tools only. We don't want, you Going out and buying. I mean, as much as I love snap on tools, I had this conversation yesterday or last night with a group of guys is like, they're overpriced. I mean, it's just like their scan tools especially, they're just.
Mike Allen [00:34:23]:
Oh, it's ridiculous.
Chris Enright [00:34:24]:
Technicians get sucked into that, you know, nice shiny stuff. And I see it firsthand because of my content. And I tell guys all the time, I'm like, stay off the tool truck. Yeah, just stay off the tool truck. Like, you buy what you need and get off and stop spending all that money on stuff. Like, if you were.
Mike Allen [00:34:39]:
If you were starting fresh today and you had to equip yourself from the word go, where would you buy your tool storage? And where would you buy your tools?
Chris Enright [00:34:49]:
That's a great question. I would buy my tool storage either from like Harbor Freight, which is a huge one. SunX tools, even like strictly Toolboxes, which is much more expensive. I started off in the industry with a Craftsman toolbox I bought. I sold a 2000 Civic Si to a kid in my school. He wrecked it. I bought it back from him, parted it out, and paid cash for my toolbox, all of my air tools, which I bought from Napa, and all of my hand tools from Craftsman and anything else my boss let me use out of his box. And that's how I started in the industry.
Chris Enright [00:35:22]:
And I didn't have all that. I didn't have. We didn't even have a snap on dealer. We had a Cornwall dealer. And I bought what I could off of them over time. But I used all of my Craftsman stuff and it worked great. Now Craftsman is not what it used to be. No, but icon is a good Tecton.
Chris Enright [00:35:36]:
Capri tools, Sonnax tools. You know, Milwaukee for about. I tell guys to buy air tools. Like, people are like, oh, air tools are dead. Air tools are cheap. They're cheap to buy you. Every shop has air. I know it's not convenient, but guess what? We did it for years.
Chris Enright [00:35:51]:
We used. We didn't have battery power tools. I didn't have battery power tools for probably the first seven, eight years I was in the industry. So you don't need it. They're much less expensive to maintain. You oil them and that's it. They're cheap to rebuild.
Mike Allen [00:36:03]:
How long are like the Milwaukee battery powered stuff? How long is that stuff lasting?
Chris Enright [00:36:07]:
Depends on the guy. Like, I don't. I have like five or six Milwaukee batteries dead just sitting there. But I also have like 30 Milwaukee batteries. And that's the nature of What I do. So I'm not the normal person. I just traded in probably like 4 months ago a snap on battery that was 9 years old and it still worked.
Mike Allen [00:36:25]:
Okay.
Chris Enright [00:36:26]:
So I mean they're, they will last a decent amount of time. But again to buy an air tool like, like a whatever Ingersoll ran or Sunx or whatever air impacts under 200 bucks. Yeah, for a good one.
Mike Allen [00:36:39]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:36:40]:
And a battery powered impact, even the stubby M12 is 229 or something like that. No, that's 200 bucks. But you want the kit and then.
Mike Allen [00:36:48]:
You'Re going to get multiple batteries and.
Chris Enright [00:36:49]:
Chargers and I love, I love battery power tools. Like if you see my, my, my, my videos and my drawers, like I love them but I don't want new guys doing that. It's stupid.
Jeff Compton [00:36:59]:
I can remember you know the very first electric tools that I ever saw. So it's going Back to like 2001 was in a shop and there were snap ons and, and my technician, my mentor at the time, he had them and I'd never seen anything like it in my life other than you know, everybody had seen an old craftsman nicad big heavy drill and I'm like I didn't know they made half inch impact guns that first gen for some, some of them tools are still working right for people. Now here's the thing. The initial investment on that back then was huge. I can remember you could buy three Ingersoll air guns for what that one snap on battery pack and half inch would do. But it was a lot more convenient. He could take it home, do a job on the weekend and not have to even turn his compressor on.
Mike Allen [00:37:46]:
How much of that three time multiple was the snap on brand on the side of the tool?
Jeff Compton [00:37:50]:
So I would have said back then he probably could have bought it like 800 bucks maybe. Well no, probably would have been 600 to probably buy the gun and a battery and a box and a charger and you could have bought an Ingersoll ran 231 there the you know, the hammer of all impact guns for less than 200 bucks just about anywhere back then.
Chris Enright [00:38:09]:
Yeah, I mean I used a Aircat 1250K forever and when now the quality.
Jeff Compton [00:38:14]:
Is so good for everybody else's electrical tools including the harbor freight line that they sell Bauer and you know what's their Bauer Hercules. Hercules like you do not have to go onto a tool truck and buy any kind of the snap on the newest, greatest one I've seen it. They came out, it's Nice. I'm not paying that much for electric tools.
Chris Enright [00:38:35]:
I mean, if you want to upgrade to that stuff and you're like me and you just like tools and you just want better stuff. Like, because I. I talk to my Snap on dealer about this all the time. Like, a lot of Snap on or a lot of Milwaukee or a lot of the, like, higher name brands that are well known are better, but they're not that much better. No. And that's the issue I have, like the whole Sherwood thing and the wrenches and stuff. Yes. Where does the price difference come in? Where it's worth the 70 to $700.
Chris Enright [00:39:05]:
It's not there. It's not even close to there. Maybe if they were like, and I don't know, everybody's range is going to be different. Like, maybe there's, you know, $300 worth of different. I don't know. But the. Everybody's range is going to be different on that, but it's got to be enough. And maybe you just want that better tool.
Chris Enright [00:39:23]:
But starting off in the industry, how many guys have we seen come into this industry, buy a Snap on roll cart for 2,500 bucks, barely fill it up with any tools, and then leave six months to a year into it because they don't make.
Mike Allen [00:39:37]:
Ryan Pollock's on Facebook marketplace offering 900 cash for everything. That's.
Jeff Compton [00:39:43]:
I'll come and get it today, bro.
Chris Enright [00:39:44]:
And that's what happens. And that's, that's why I tell them, like. And they would come over to my toolbox at the dealership. I always call it a toolbox envy because they'd be like, oh, your toolbox is so awesome. I'm like, don't even look at it. No freaking walk away. Don't do it. And then next thing I know, the following week, what are they doing? Snap on guys rolling a card off over to their bay.
Chris Enright [00:40:02]:
And they don't have any tools to put them. Like, you guys are idiots. I freaking told you not to do it.
Mike Allen [00:40:06]:
Well, I mean, so we were talking about this on the way back from the desert last night. We're talking about. I think it points to a larger problem of financial management skills.
Chris Enright [00:40:19]:
Yes.
Jeff Compton [00:40:19]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:40:20]:
And I don't know whose responsibility it is to teach young adults how to manage their income and how to manage a personal budget.
Chris Enright [00:40:27]:
Parents, technically.
Jeff Compton [00:40:29]:
And then the education system should be where it should be. Picking up other parents or not.
Chris Enright [00:40:33]:
It's funny you bring that up because somebody posted in. I don't know if it's changing the industry or whatever. The guy was asking where the best place to get SBA loan is, and I said, don't do it. And someone said, well, I disagree. And I'm like, I. There's. There's proof on both sides of where I didn't get a loan, but I did have money set aside because I was financially smart and made good choices, and I wasn't in a position where I was desperate. So I was able to make mistakes and not feel like I had to take anything and everything.
Chris Enright [00:41:00]:
Then there's examples of guys who have taken loans and feel desperate and do stupid stuff and then go out of business. And then there's examples of guys who didn't do either, didn't have any money in savings and still made it happen, bootstrapped it. There's going to be examples. But having some sort of money, I agreed. And he agreed. Does help you starting off in the business set aside. But I said all of that to come back to your point is I said, that's what I see too much of is technicians that are technicians already make bad financial choices. Then they become a shop owner and they get a loan.
Chris Enright [00:41:37]:
And then he's like, well, you'll have money set aside. I'm like, no, they won't, because they'll burn through that entire loan as fast.
Jeff Compton [00:41:42]:
As they get it.
Chris Enright [00:41:42]:
And they'll go out and buy, oh, I need this, I need that. I need a YF machine. I bought my YF machine and I hate it. And I wish I would have never bought it because I was like, oh, I got three people before AC season asked me about yf, and guess what? I did those three freaking YF jobs, and I've not done any since then.
Jeff Compton [00:41:57]:
The ROI on that machine.
Chris Enright [00:41:59]:
Burn the thing to the ground.
Jeff Compton [00:42:01]:
I think when you get the. I think when you get the. The loan and all the tools and everything else in the business, and it starts this cycle of, like, you hear me talk about all the time, you have to say yes to every job. Yes. I have this banknote hanging over me every day that says I have to make this nut to the bank for this loan. So all of a sudden, I'm going to take in that YF job. Right? I'm going to take in these and, yeah, you know, not my customer, all that kind of stuff. Right.
Jeff Compton [00:42:25]:
People say, oh, you don't have to take every job when you're starting out. You do have to take almost every job. I get it. You did it right. Yeah. But if we could maybe not have so many people have to, like, Run to the bank, decide, I'm done, I quit. I'm going to be a mechanic, you know, turn shop owner tomorrow. And you get this big nut of a loan and you buy some equipment.
Jeff Compton [00:42:44]:
I would rather see some people start a little bit smaller and be able to turn around and say, I'm not going to take on these jobs. That. Because when we know, when we break it down like you and I were talking about it last night, some of these nightmare cars are nothing more than pride. Nothing more than the return on investment is something that I learned or pride or felt good or I helped somebody. That's all great. But if it didn't financially make sense, you probably shouldn't have done it. And here's the thing. So why did not financially make sense? Well, I was trapped where I had to earn something to hit this nut.
Jeff Compton [00:43:14]:
Okay, cool. But maybe just tweak your process a little bit so you don't need that nightmare car.
Chris Enright [00:43:18]:
Well, because I had money, I didn't have to take every job in the beginning. I thought I did and eventually learned, obviously, that I didn't have to. And that was the thing, I think, because I had money in the bank, like during the slow times, especially since I started, you know, a month before COVID I at least had comfort and I didn't have to take a paycheck for six months.
Jeff Compton [00:43:39]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:43:40]:
So I had money to live on while the shop and I just reinvested all of my money back into the shop versus having to pull money out to try to support myself and my wife and kids. It's like the dude that. Where we talk about that we send videos back and forth on TikTok and he did this whole video thing on how business owners have to date. He's like, business owners have to take debt. You have to. And he's got. He owes money to every freaking tool truck there is and did all this crazy stuff. But then he's on there talking about how he's taking care of people better because he doesn't mark up his parts.
Chris Enright [00:44:13]:
And I said, now I know why he's in debt. And he. Because he thinks he has debt. And I'm like, no, no, I don't have any debt. I've run my business all on cash. I will say this again. No debt, no consumer debt in my business. No credit cards, no business loans.
Chris Enright [00:44:26]:
I have a credit card, but I pay it off every month. And you can do it.
Jeff Compton [00:44:29]:
So this guy blew up. This guy blew up his TikTok account with. He was going to go after Snap on Corporate because he had bought a scan tool and then he traded the sand. No, he sold the scan tool.
Chris Enright [00:44:38]:
It was a toolbox.
Jeff Compton [00:44:38]:
Toolbox. Excuse me, still owed money on it. Right. They still continue to hit him with the interest.
Mike Allen [00:44:43]:
He sold a box that he didn't own.
Jeff Compton [00:44:44]:
Right.
Chris Enright [00:44:45]:
So that was the thing. He bought it on the credit account. But the way snap on credit accounts work is if you buy a toolbox and then add, keep adding to that credit account, well, the money gets spread out and so technically no.
Mike Allen [00:44:57]:
Even though I bought it for $10,000, since I bought it, I've made $15,000 of payments.
Chris Enright [00:45:02]:
Correct.
Mike Allen [00:45:02]:
But he never paid it off.
Jeff Compton [00:45:03]:
That's right.
Chris Enright [00:45:03]:
Added other stuff. And so the toolbox is technically still snap ons. And so he traded it into another dealer to buy another brand toolbox. I don't know the whole.
Jeff Compton [00:45:14]:
But he felt, he felt he was really victimized. He was preyed on. This is all stuff. So he was blowing up snap on corporate, so on. That policy's bunk.
Mike Allen [00:45:22]:
Well, to be fair, tool truck financing is predatory lending.
Chris Enright [00:45:27]:
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. He's not wrong at all by that.
Mike Allen [00:45:30]:
Yeah, but this isn't a kid straight out of tech school. This is a know it all business owner who's, I mean, look who you don't need to money a stuff up, right? And plenty of mea culpas. I mean the whole premise of the show is talk about what I fucked up most recently, right? Yeah, but you signed on the line, man. You signed on the line.
Chris Enright [00:45:52]:
Like it's your job. Now in his defense too, supposedly his dealer told him wrong and said he was okay to sell the box. So that was where the real big slip up was from his snap on dealer. But his snap on dealer is not paying attention to the.
Jeff Compton [00:46:07]:
Let's talk about the fact though that he's using TikTok to try and market himself in North Carolina as being the most fair shop in the state. Because he doesn't mark his parts in North Carolina.
Chris Enright [00:46:15]:
Yeah, oh yeah, they're all from North Carolina.
Mike Allen [00:46:17]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:46:18]:
Mark himself his parts up more than 20%. And if anybody that marks a part up more than 20% is ripping you off and is being unfair and is just being predatory.
Chris Enright [00:46:25]:
I really hate the parts.
Mike Allen [00:46:26]:
Who is this guy? I got to know him.
Jeff Compton [00:46:28]:
We'll send you links later.
Chris Enright [00:46:29]:
Like I, I, I, that argument is one that I, I've not given up on, but I really do a lot less videos on now because I really get sick of that argument and especially now with new cars and being so labor heavy, I'm like, I don't care. Honestly, it's going to work out to our favor if it ever has to go that way, which it won't. But if it did, and we had to go really labor heavy and not parts margin heavy, we would make so much more money because all of the new cars are so labor intensive. Like, look at the new GM transmission fluid services. Are they like $1,000 or 2005 h hour process something stupid. And it's all labor, hardly any parts.
Mike Allen [00:47:08]:
And how, how often is this supposed to be done? Every 50,000 miles?
Jeff Compton [00:47:11]:
How long do you want your transmission, your truck to last, Mike?
Mike Allen [00:47:13]:
I. I just get a new truck every day.
Chris Enright [00:47:15]:
No, no, that's ripping people off. Don't worry. If we don't test the fluid, you're ripping them off now.
Jeff Compton [00:47:18]:
Oh, that was another good one, right?
Mike Allen [00:47:20]:
Jeez. He crying.
Jeff Compton [00:47:21]:
Brake fluid.
Mike Allen [00:47:22]:
Oh, I got to get into this tech tik tok, man. I mean, it sounds like there's so much fun drama that I can mock.
Chris Enright [00:47:27]:
It was a whole thing because some girl went into the dealership. The dealership. Now, it all went back to. We fang communication. It all went back to communication because the way the advisor presented it to her was you have to do a brake flush every two years or 45,000 miles. You know that he presented it all not. So I. So then he did a video.
Chris Enright [00:47:49]:
This other dude, this is a different guy, did a video and said, oh, if you're selling brake fluid flushes without testing and providing testing, you're scamming people and ripping them off. And I did a video and I said, no, that's manufacturer specific recommendations. It's all about how it's communicated. Tell them this is a recommendation. It's preventative maintenance. It's to help prevent larger, bigger repairs. You're preventing something. Do you have to do it?
Jeff Compton [00:48:16]:
No.
Chris Enright [00:48:17]:
If you don't do it today, are your brakes going to fail?
Jeff Compton [00:48:19]:
No.
Chris Enright [00:48:19]:
No. There. Could they maybe. Probably not, though. The likelihood of something happening is very slim. But you're preventing something. And I said, and of course everybody got hung up on this, but I just used transmission fluids as an example of just. And everybody went back to.
Chris Enright [00:48:34]:
I'm like, you guys, for the love of God, it's an example. Like, we can take any of these fluids. So he's like, oh, well, you're not providing tests. And I said, okay, so what are you doing with cars for? With or without? What are you doing with vehicles without dipsticks for transmission? You testing the Fluid. He's like, oh, well, those are based off of intervals. Oh, so those are off intervals, but brake fluid flushes aren't. Okay, now I got it. So, you know, like, that's the problem with some of these people is, like.
Jeff Compton [00:48:55]:
Every customer that comes in wants an oil change. We pull the dipstick out, test it. That's what I say, hey, we're not test. We're not changing your oil today, Mr. Jones, because it doesn't need it, according to this stupid little paper test.
Chris Enright [00:49:04]:
That's exactly what I told him. And I. And I argued. I said, you're building more of a relationship with them by being honest and transparent and communicating with them versus giving them a test they know nothing about.
Mike Allen [00:49:16]:
Can I. Can I make a counter argument?
Chris Enright [00:49:18]:
Yes, absolutely.
Mike Allen [00:49:18]:
And I don't think it's ethical. Yeah, this is the counter argument is he's building a relationship with them by telling them something that's easier for them to hear.
Chris Enright [00:49:26]:
Oh, okay.
Mike Allen [00:49:28]:
Rather than building a relationship by education and information.
Chris Enright [00:49:31]:
And someone else did mention, like, they don't understand it. So a test for them. Like, I asked a consumer what they would think, and they, oh, I trust that test. And I said, well, what if I just had a test back there on one car, and I use that for every vehicle? I'm like, how would you know as a consumer? You wouldn't know.
Mike Allen [00:49:46]:
And I guarantee you there are places out there that do that 100%.
Chris Enright [00:49:48]:
They do. And so that's why I'm like, if I take the time and explain it to you and say, you don't have. Give you the option, like, I'm giving you the free out, you don't have to do this. You can do it whenever you feel like it, whenever it fits in your budget. If you don't want to ever do it and you want to just drive your car forever and never do this service, you don't ever have to do an oil change. You don't have to do a transmission fluid service. You don't have to fix anything. It's your car, your money.
Chris Enright [00:50:11]:
You get to decide. Unless you're in a safety state. And they have to.
Mike Allen [00:50:14]:
But we're.
Chris Enright [00:50:14]:
I'm not. We don't have safeties. We don't have emissions. We have nothing. It's like the wild, wild west. You can drive whatever. I love it.
Mike Allen [00:50:20]:
Where are you?
Chris Enright [00:50:20]:
Ohio. Okay, So I absolutely love it. So we don't have nothing. So people can pick and choose what they want to do, and so they don't have to do anything. And I Tell them you literally have to do nothing to your car if you don't want. I cannot force you to do anything to it. But I'm building that rapport and trust with you.
Mike Allen [00:50:36]:
Well, that's just. That's just really. That's zero pressure Sales.
Chris Enright [00:50:41]:
Yes.
Mike Allen [00:50:41]:
It's like, I'm just telling you what you need, what you should know. It's your decision to make it. That's why, if you're not gonna do it, which way do you turn when you drive home? Because I'm going the other way.
Jeff Compton [00:50:51]:
But there's zero pressure and then there's zero uncomfortability like we talked about in the cab ride over this morning. I can take zero pressure away, and then I can not even have the conversation at all because it makes both people uncomfortable. My service writer and my customer. And I just avoid it all. And I go, Mrs. Jones, thank you for coming in to have your oil change done today. Your car looks great. Have a nice day.
Chris Enright [00:51:10]:
But then they're the same people that will two weeks later are like, hey, I was just in your shop and now my ball joint fell off and you didn't tell me about it, people. And now. So my one like statement in that video that I did about the brake flushes is I said, okay. He said, how many cars have you had come into your shop that have never had a brake fluid service and not had an issue? And I said, how many cars have you had come into your shop and never had a transmission fluid service and not had any issues? I said, it's not an issue until it's an issue. And so that was like my whole argument about the whole thing is I'm like, it's. It's our job and none of it's an issue until it's an issue liability. Like, you don't ever think about leaving a lug nut loose. It's not like you voluntarily.
Chris Enright [00:51:52]:
No tech goes out and like, I'm gonna leave this loose, but it's a possibility. You have to cya yourself out the yang because of what we do. And so I look at that through everything by informing them, making I notate anything, anything that I don't do. Like, I don't do alignments. But if I do service on a car, I make sure I put it in the inspection. If we replace this, you need an alignment.
Jeff Compton [00:52:13]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [00:52:14]:
Then when I put it on the estimate, you need alignment. And then when I give them the invoice, it's on there, they signed it, it shows. Like, get in a freaking alignment. Like My clients are really great. So for me it's not, I'm smaller so it's easier. But that helps me CYA myself because they can't come back and be like oh well I never got alignment and now my tires are jacked up.
Mike Allen [00:52:34]:
Talking about cya, I saw an interesting post the other day. Anees Blanking on his last name right now. Canadian guy, I know him, yeah, good friend of mine. So he posted high vis yellow pre printed form that he puts next to the shifter in every car and it has the name of the technician that worked on your car today. They fill it in, then it has the torque spec that was used on his wheels.
Jeff Compton [00:52:57]:
Oh, that's cool.
Mike Allen [00:52:58]:
And anything that says, you know, properly torque, your wheels have been properly torqued to this spec and they need to be re torqued within X number of days or kilometers and bring this sticky pad in with you for a free re torque. But it's, you know. Yeah, one, the technicians having to fill that out and put it in every car and so that's making sure that they're actually looking up torque specs and using it appropriately. Yeah, yeah. And, and two, it's putting that top of mind for the customer.
Chris Enright [00:53:28]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:53:28]:
Making you look more professional.
Jeff Compton [00:53:30]:
That was a policy I had at a shop I worked at previously in, in my history was that that had to be done and that had to be followed. Now did every customer come back for the retort?
Chris Enright [00:53:39]:
No, no, no.
Mike Allen [00:53:40]:
But it was, but every customer got that documentation.
Chris Enright [00:53:42]:
Yeah, it was not I guess hung.
Jeff Compton [00:53:44]:
From their mirror when they left.
Chris Enright [00:53:45]:
I can already hear the, the rebuttal to that is like oh, they don't get paid for that. I can already hear it now. And that's why I hate like yeah, okay, so Flat rate gets talked about all the time. I loved Flat Rate. I was a flat rate machine. I made a lot of money on flat rate.
Mike Allen [00:53:59]:
Flat rate is how you make that math work for that $200,000 tech.
Chris Enright [00:54:02]:
Right. And that. So I'm not and I tell people all the time I'm like, I was a machine, I loved Flat Rate, I made a lot of money on it. But I also see this the other side of it and that's what I see in the comments all the times, oh do I get paid for it? Makes you very selfish. No one can ever tell me any different. I don't care how good, how moral, how much of a stand up person you are, you will become selfish no matter what.
Mike Allen [00:54:25]:
If you are hyper money motivated.
Chris Enright [00:54:27]:
Yes, but I'm not. And I was still selfish. I was performance based because I wanted to be the top hour turner didn't care about the pitch.
Mike Allen [00:54:33]:
I still to this day, well that's ego and we're all egos.
Chris Enright [00:54:37]:
So some people. But something's gonna drive you to make that more money.
Jeff Compton [00:54:41]:
But if you advertise your business as the highest paying business like you and I talked about last night, you are going to attract the money motivated people. People. If I see like a dealer trying to poach me or recruit me and they tell me that their guys are averaging 15 hours a day, I'm going to look at that regardless of what the product is or whatever because that's 15 hours. That's all I can turn that. Right. Like how are they doing it? Cool. Product must be pretty easy to work on. Processes must be all there for it to work.
Jeff Compton [00:55:08]:
Then I can turn around and talk to somebody like my guys average 7. It could be the same product line in the same dealer. Why is that then? You know that that's a, that's a waste hole of inefficiencies and whatnot. But the obviously the 15 hour guy advertising has a way better return on people that want to come work there. So money motivated is who you're going to get if you're going to high pay. It's just that you're not going to get the super quality. I shouldn't say that it's harder to get the super quality uber focused. You know unicorns.
Jeff Compton [00:55:44]:
If you're not paying the highest that.
Mike Allen [00:55:46]:
Leads to the question of what's an atec? Right. There are so many different ways that you can bring enormous value to a business. As a technician you can be an a tech who turns 20 hours a week if it's the 20 hours that no one else in the building can fix.
Jeff Compton [00:55:59]:
That's right.
Mike Allen [00:56:00]:
So that those a techs can turn 75 hours a week because they don't have to do any of the hardship. Right, Right. And they both bring enormous value to the business. They're both a techs. So you know Carm Capriotto is, has a talk that he does that he did it at ASTA this year. He's been trying to spread the word on the rise of the automotive specialist. Specialist. Right.
Mike Allen [00:56:22]:
And technology specialist. And I think that he's on to something there.
Chris Enright [00:56:27]:
Yeah, I agree. And my, my question is do you think like to make that work you gotta, I feel like you have to have a really strong front of house.
Jeff Compton [00:56:36]:
Yes.
Chris Enright [00:56:37]:
Because they have to be able to sell the value of everything. That that person's doing which I agree like I there are some people that are just really good but they're just not fast. They don't care to be fast but they're insanely smart. They can figure out stuff that no one else can figure out. But it's never going to be a 40, 50, 60 hour a week person. They're going to be a 20, 30 hour week but they can help everybody else.
Mike Allen [00:57:00]:
Yeah, I think, I'm not sure that that relies depends on the mindset and the setup of the operation. Right. Brian Pollock for example, who I think we can all fairly speak about.
Jeff Compton [00:57:13]:
Very good friend.
Mike Allen [00:57:14]:
I'm not sure that he's the most profitable technician in that business.
Chris Enright [00:57:17]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:57:18]:
But he brings an enormous amount of value because he allows the other technicians who are lower cost to produce high volume.
Jeff Compton [00:57:26]:
It all depends on how you evaluate the productive. And you know, because I have said it since I've known Brian, I've been telling Brian this for the better part of five years. That shop works because it has Brian. What Brian has been able to do is build that shops without much marketing investment, without anything else has been able to build that reputation to what it is on his back. His ability. Now you can't unfortunately we can't just scan him and make a duplicate and put him in two other locations. Three other locations. So the whole thing of is like he's not the most productive technician.
Jeff Compton [00:58:01]:
He can like you I call him the unicorn for a reason because he can. He can buckle down most days and hit 20 hours if he wanted. If he didn't do 10 diags a day that are like. And some are, some are cream puffs, some are just like it's you know, it's New York state, it's in a mission.
Mike Allen [00:58:17]:
It's a cream puff to him but it's not a cream puff to the other guys.
Chris Enright [00:58:20]:
Cuz how many other people is he messaging back helping. How many times in a situation that he's like walking me through how many.
Mike Allen [00:58:28]:
Group checks, texts do you think he's a part of? On any given day he goes around.
Jeff Compton [00:58:32]:
With his earbuds in talking to Justin Morgan as he's doing three different diags fielding of questions from the other shop about how to do this and I'll be over in the afternoon with my pack out to program that flash that module. Don't go any farther than like the guy is a machine.
Chris Enright [00:58:46]:
He only helps people though that like he knows that I have done everything that I possibly can and I am at my wits end like, this is everything I've done. This is everything I've tested. This is what I've looked at. I read service information. I looked at tsps. Like, I don't know what else to do. And they'll be like, okay, well, check this.
Jeff Compton [00:59:00]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:59:01]:
Two weeks ago, somebody reached out to him via Facebook messenger and said that they were one of my technicians and they needed help with a job, and he helped them out. And he was like, hey, did your guy get. I was like, what the are you talking about? And he sent me yesterday. I was like, I have no idea who that guy is.
Chris Enright [00:59:16]:
Oh, no way.
Mike Allen [00:59:18]:
That was hilarious.
Jeff Compton [00:59:20]:
Whoever. Whoever that tech is, you are a piece of work. Yeah, I'm not gonna cost major. Like, that's just, like.
Chris Enright [00:59:29]:
That's next level crazy.
Mike Allen [00:59:31]:
That's a future evil shop owner.
Chris Enright [00:59:33]:
That is very shrewd.
Jeff Compton [00:59:35]:
You and you. And you owe very, very true. And you owe Brian some money. Let's just be real. You owe Brian some money, okay?
Chris Enright [00:59:41]:
You.
Jeff Compton [00:59:42]:
You made money off that car. You owe Brian some money. That's as simple as that.
Chris Enright [00:59:45]:
Yeah, like, that's the thing. Like, you know, you. You people always want silver bullet answers.
Mike Allen [00:59:50]:
Wait, wait, wait, wait. All right, guys, can y' all get on board with this for me? If you're a technician and we've never met, message Brian Pollack with really stupid diagnostic questions. Like, just like borderline. Just totally inane diagnostic help requests. Please do that. Yeah, please. Thank you. Okay, I'm sorry.
Mike Allen [01:00:16]:
And tell them that you work for me. Tell them that you work for Mike.
Chris Enright [01:00:19]:
God, that's hilarious.
Mike Allen [01:00:21]:
All right, sorry.
Chris Enright [01:00:22]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [01:00:22]:
He's a guy with a lot on his shoulders every day. I wouldn't want to be him. I wouldn't want to ever trade places with him. I have the absolute utmost respect for him, but I could not. I. I joke with him all the time. I couldn't do what he does. And.
Jeff Compton [01:00:35]:
And I wouldn't want that weight. It is too. It's too much. You know, it's not. He's not cracking under it.
Mike Allen [01:00:41]:
It's a pretty happy cat.
Jeff Compton [01:00:43]:
He is. Yeah. But he's paid what he's worth. That's the beauty of it. He's treated the way he should be treated and paid to what he's worth. And if we can get all text to that.
Mike Allen [01:00:53]:
Well, I would argue that there are. I know a hundred shop owners right now that would pay him what he has paid to come do for them what he does at his current place. Right. Yeah, I've seen the offers. And so the money is there. The problem is there aren't a lot of dudes that have that skill set.
Jeff Compton [01:01:10]:
No.
Mike Allen [01:01:11]:
And he, and, and he can go either way. He can go high level production or he can go high level diagnostics. Yeah, yeah. Which is a pretty unique and rare combination of skills.
Chris Enright [01:01:21]:
Yeah. We talk about it a lot. Like how many technicians go to be a shop owner, come to find out they're not a good shop owner. That guy mentioned it in the group recently. But then Brian brings up always a good point. He said they're probably not as good of a technician as they thought they were. Which that's exactly. As soon as I started my shop I'm like oh like I can get cars fixed and do them right and be efficient.
Chris Enright [01:01:43]:
And obviously I'm successful in my shop as just being a small shop. But I found like, as I've learned, I'm a better shop owner than I am a technician because I got out of my own freaking way and I still again have a lot to learn. Get out of my own ego, all of those things. But I've gotten out of my way enough to be successful in what I'm doing, not only in the shop, but now social media as well. And it doesn't always work out that way. You know, they'll, they won't get out of their own way and then, so then the shop fails and then they feel like they're not a good shot. I don't know. There's a lot to learn either way.
Mike Allen [01:02:17]:
In a given week, on an average week, because I mean they're like weeks like this. But on an average week, how is your time split between running the business, working on cars, working on your social media.
Jeff Compton [01:02:31]:
And then the family too.
Chris Enright [01:02:32]:
So I, so I have it set up. I'm, I'm very blessed. I'm done by five, sometimes four o' clock every single day. I don't charge little for what I do, so I'm not like that's what I found. A lot of these guys like they're severely undercharging. So I don't need to do a massive amount. I average. Well my average has gone up now.
Chris Enright [01:02:52]:
So this year I'll do as a one person, one bay shop, I'll do about 3, 3:15 to 3:25 in gross revenue. And I go in the shop every day about 7 o'. Clock. I don't open till 8:30. I don't work past 5, almost never. I never work Saturdays and Sundays. I'll spend most of my social media, I'll Spend maybe an hour or two a day. I don't spend a ton of time.
Chris Enright [01:03:15]:
It doesn't take me very long. I've got a down pat where I can do most of my videos that I'm doing five or 10 minutes, maybe 15 on the long end and then the shop. Like, I spend most of my time not working on cars. I just did a video on this the other day talking about how I thought I was going to be fixing cars and I don't fix cars very often. I'm mostly working on inspection or, you know, estimates and talking to clients and setting appointments and, you know, all of that stuff. Now thank God for online scheduling. That's saved me a ton of time. But I don't have like an actual split.
Chris Enright [01:03:48]:
But I don't spend that much time on everything. Like, I have a good, pretty good balance. I'm very blessed, I really am. I don't really have anything negative to say. I've set the business up really well.
Jeff Compton [01:03:59]:
And he's a good example for, I think a lot more people that need to pay attention to what, what he's actually about. Because some people might look at it and go, well, you know, he's, he's having to, his ceilings are low. Right? And he, and he's, and he's, and he's very specialized on only one brand and I can never make that work. Firstly, if he can do it, anybody can do it.
Mike Allen [01:04:19]:
I think the industry is going to be pushed towards specialization more and more because of the ever increasing complexity. Yeah, it's going to be really hard to be a generalist. It's already hard to be a full service generalist. I mean you can be, you can be a generalist. I do brakes and tires and yeah, you know, basic maintenance.
Chris Enright [01:04:36]:
It is, it's already hard now, just like me keeping up with just Honda's Acuras, Toyotas and Lexus. And I, I hyper focus on, on Honda Acura and I still have to message friends that work for the dealership now, like, hey, like I just had1, a 2017 pilot that had a rod knock and no bulletin. And I'm like, I know there's a bulletin on these. It's a 2016, 2018 and 2019. They skipped 2017 and I just did a timing belt on it like four months before. So obviously like the guy was super cool. Like he wasn't blaming me but like in my mind I'm like, oh, what the heck's going on? And then come to find out they skipped 2017. But I looked it up.
Chris Enright [01:05:11]:
And I'm like, there's no bulletin. Like, I'm pretty good at service information. Brian's always in the back of my head like, yeah, read the service. TFM so and so. I'm like, there's no bolt. I'm like, what the heck? And so I messaged my buddies to it. He's like, oh yeah, they skipped 17. He's like, look it up for another year.
Chris Enright [01:05:27]:
There's a lot of that stuff going on now, even in individual. So trying to do it all is impossible. I don't care what anybody says. It's impossible to know it all all the time. Like you're gonna miss some from time to time. If you're working on every single brand.
Mike Allen [01:05:41]:
It'S just gonna happen across Honda, Acura, Toyota Lexus. If somebody said, I want to buy a reliable, long lasting, comfortable four door sedan, which one of the. Which one are you pointing them at?
Chris Enright [01:05:57]:
A cord. Without the 1.5 Turbo or the Camry, the older, like the 20.
Mike Allen [01:06:02]:
So you wouldn't go like a TLX or I like this or I like those.
Chris Enright [01:06:06]:
But anything with the 1.5 turbo is an absolute disaster. Head gaskets galore, turbos galore. They're having all sorts of issues.
Mike Allen [01:06:14]:
So just in the market for a sensible sedan.
Chris Enright [01:06:17]:
My. My nephew has a Camry and it's been absolute tank. Like he's legit. Not had to fix anything mechanical on it. We've only done maintenance, nothing else.
Mike Allen [01:06:25]:
All right, so part of the premise of the show is confessions about shit that's fallen apart. Has anything fallen apart at the shop recently or embarrassingly bad?
Chris Enright [01:06:34]:
Yeah, what was. I just did my. I don't know if this is like falling apart, but I did. I worked on a good friend of mine's vehicle recently and I put a TPMS sensor in there and I never programmed it. He texted me on his way home and he said, hey, my TPMS light came on. He said, is there something wrong? And I said, yeah, I didn't do my freaking job. I've never even, like, it never even came into my mind to program it. I.
Chris Enright [01:06:57]:
I bought a rebuild kit for it because we rebuilt the last one. When I went to take the sleeve off, it broke and I was like, crap, I'll just put a sensor on there. Like he's. Whatever it needs. Yeah. And I just had rebuild in my mind, sent him back in. Not like that. And that's my new.
Chris Enright [01:07:13]:
Like there's, you know, so it feels.
Mike Allen [01:07:15]:
Like it's always a friend Or a family member or a neighbor or the dude I go to church with or whatever. When that happens.
Chris Enright [01:07:20]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [01:07:20]:
Is it better or worse when that happens than if it's just a stranger? Because the friend's going to be more forgiving than just a stranger who happens to be a customer. But it's also more embarrassing. I don't know.
Jeff Compton [01:07:31]:
I wanted to be my friend because like, my friend has heard me joke about the other stuff that I've screwed up on my career, but he's also heard me like run my mouth about how I'm the greatest thing ever. So it's like it just becomes a bit of humor. Right. I would rather have that than I would rather have a less familiar customer. Because then it doesn't matter. I've said it before, you can fix their stuff 10 times in a row. And we all have human flaws. And something doesn't go right or you just miss that.
Jeff Compton [01:07:57]:
Right. And it's like crap. And then all of a sudden that faith in you is, for the most part, for a lot of customers is gone.
Chris Enright [01:08:03]:
It is, it's at least fractured.
Jeff Compton [01:08:04]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [01:08:05]:
I mean, for sure. Like, because everybody has a story of, you know, a bad experience, which I again go back to. It's not. Yes, there are shops out there stealing and doing dishonest things. Obviously that's every industry. It's not just shops. But everybody has a story of something and most of the time it's like bad communication. Oh, I got a quote from this shop and it was $1,000.
Chris Enright [01:08:28]:
And then I went to another shop and they're going to do it for $500. The other shop was ripping me off. No, they're not. This shop did it with a deco piece of crap kit and didn't replace anything else.
Mike Allen [01:08:38]:
You didn't do no seals. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Enright [01:08:40]:
And then this one gave you, you know, a better high quality kit with, you know, three year, 36,000 mile warranty and replaced all this, you know, did the whole gambit and you just, they just never told you. They never communicated the difference. And that's the. That you see that a ton. I hear a lot about dealerships and I always tell people, I'm like, listen, I know dealerships are expensive. Yes, there are bad ones out there. Just because they're more expensive does not mean they're ripping you off. I always tell people that, like clients that come in that come from a dealership, I'm like, I refuse to trash talk a another business unless they're legitimately like selling.
Chris Enright [01:09:13]:
Like they bring it in and they said, oh, I need brakes. And it's got 8 millimeters on them. And they said they were 2. Like, then I'll say, hey, they screwed this up. Now it could have been just.
Mike Allen [01:09:21]:
That doesn't mean that whole organization is crooked.
Chris Enright [01:09:23]:
No, and it doesn't.
Mike Allen [01:09:24]:
Somebody in the process. Yeah.
Chris Enright [01:09:26]:
What typically I found that happens is it's a loop tech just burning through inspections, never even looked at the brakes. And, and they just marked them as oh, they need it or whatever, or they accidentally clicked it. Like that happened when I was at the dealership. Now there was guys that tried to sell them, but there were many times that it was just an honest mistake. It's not like they were actually trying.
Mike Allen [01:09:47]:
To sell someone brakes.
Chris Enright [01:09:48]:
And that's the thing is when you see all these stories and these examples, you just don't always know. There's a lot of context missing that we just don't know.
Jeff Compton [01:09:55]:
So can I ask a question on this hypothetically? Because I see that argument come up all the time. We always just talk about the measurement thing, but say a customer comes into your shop and they have a brake complaint and you just do like your, whatever your inspection go over and it's like, well, it's got seven mil, but the brakes are noisy. Maybe they're. So we, we kind of have to step away from that sometimes with broad strokes of, of this measurement is good and this measurement is not. Because I, as a former dealer technician, I changed lots of brakes that were well above 6 millimeter, 7 millimeter. There's some communist numbers again, the metric system.
Mike Allen [01:10:29]:
But, and, and why you didn't just go 6, 7. So for my 13 year old, 6, 7 millimeters.
Jeff Compton [01:10:36]:
Yeah, because they frankly just made noise. Right?
Chris Enright [01:10:40]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [01:10:40]:
So that's the other thing again, it comes back to communication. You can say to the customer, listen, material wise these are good. Thickness wise, they're good. But yet you have this complaint going on. You got a pulsation going on, you got a noise going on. I can do two things here. I can try and copy cut these rotors and I can maybe try and sand these pads and go back through and grease all this and lube all that. Or I can put on what I know works and is going to leave here quiet and then everybody goes, my God, like you, you ripped him off.
Jeff Compton [01:11:09]:
Because you took brakes were on 6 mil and you put brakes were on an 8 mil. I don't know how the other person did it, what their processes were, maybe even what the parts were. I don't care. They're there with me to get the problem resolved. I'm selling them a resolved problem.
Mike Allen [01:11:22]:
How do you measure tread depth on tires in Canada?
Jeff Compton [01:11:25]:
Millimeters.
Mike Allen [01:11:26]:
So stupid.
Jeff Compton [01:11:27]:
And here's the beauty of this, right?
Chris Enright [01:11:29]:
But why do we measure brakes in millimeters and tread in 30 seconds?
Mike Allen [01:11:32]:
Because we're being infiltrated by the commies.
Jeff Compton [01:11:35]:
Well, when you. So when you're. He's gonna love this. Quarter liter by quart oil, right?
Mike Allen [01:11:42]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [01:11:43]:
Okay, so is your engine right now under your truck, is it a six quart or is it a six liter or six point?
Mike Allen [01:11:49]:
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Jeff Compton [01:11:50]:
Like it's just, it's vernacular. We start talking up, but I mean it doesn't make sense to me.
Mike Allen [01:11:53]:
But it's a gm, it's burning oil, that's all.
Jeff Compton [01:11:55]:
And the tire thing is great too because it's like, well, what part of the tread? Because like we see it on uneven wear. Chopped it. It's not about measurements or it's not about context matters. Context. It's about what do you, what does a customer want resolved and what are you trying to sell them? You're trying to sell them a resolve problem.
Chris Enright [01:12:13]:
Problem that we could go on for that. Like that could be a whole other conversation about like, you know, you're replacing pads and rotors and the whole conversation of pad slapping. But you could replace rotors and just rotors because you're, they're warped rotors, which is normally lateral run out, not warped, which is a whole other conversation. But like I tell my clients that all the time. I'm like, I can replace just rotors for you because you have 7 millimeters on your brake pads. But you, one, don't get my warranty and two, the rotors are the most expensive part of the brake job anyway, so why, why not do them together? Like it's a waste of money to not do them together. But again, that's a whole like.
Mike Allen [01:12:51]:
But you have gained the absolute trust of your customers because of the nature of your business. Yes, they're talking to the service advisor and the technician and the owner when they talk to you.
Chris Enright [01:13:02]:
Yes, it's very abnormal.
Mike Allen [01:13:03]:
Whereas this 50 year old dude is talking to this 26 year old service advisor that he just met and he looking out the window and he wants to talk to that old technician back there that he doesn't know is actually my shuttle driver who's mopping and the guy was actually doing the job.
Chris Enright [01:13:18]:
Which they don't want to actually talk to most technicians because when they did they'd be like, oh, my gosh. Who is this rude sob?
Mike Allen [01:13:24]:
There's a reason we put a wall to keep you away from them.
Jeff Compton [01:13:27]:
That's right.
Mike Allen [01:13:27]:
The zoo back there.
Chris Enright [01:13:28]:
When I worked at the dealership, I was the guy that went out and talked to all the clients.
Mike Allen [01:13:31]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [01:13:32]:
Because nobody else ever wanted to talk.
Jeff Compton [01:13:33]:
I had to do that, too.
Chris Enright [01:13:34]:
And it's. It sucks so bad.
Mike Allen [01:13:36]:
It's such a great one, two punch to have a good service advisor who can build rapport and trust and then go back and have, like a pleasant, articulate technician who has a clean workspace and doesn't have, like, dick tattoos on their face or teardrops, whatever it is that they do, you know? Yeah. Sorry, I had to go there again. Why do I keep going to the dick tattoos? I don't know.
Chris Enright [01:14:01]:
It's talked about that with your therapist, maybe.
Mike Allen [01:14:04]:
I can't hear you talk about that with your therapist. Maybe. Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Compton [01:14:07]:
What about the guy that recently made the. The big boisterous brag on his social media about how in his whole career he's only ever changed two sets of rotors in all his life? Yeah, like, that was pretty cool considering he used to work at a Firestone store. So that's a really, really reach, I have to think, for working at Tire Stone. What's. Maybe. What did you do when you worked there? Maybe you didn't do a lot of brakes, but I would have to think that Firestone that does a lot of brakes would be wanting to move a lot of rotors. And, you know, pad slaps are. To me, it's a half a job.
Chris Enright [01:14:41]:
If here's my thing again, context matters. And, like, talking to the client matters. And people will say, like, oh, well, you know, some people just don't have the money. Absolutely. Some people don't have the money. That is fine.
Jeff Compton [01:14:54]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [01:14:54]:
I will send them to someone who will do that job. I won't do it at my shop.
Jeff Compton [01:14:59]:
Yeah.
Chris Enright [01:14:59]:
And for you to say that I am now, quote, unquote, ripping the client off or not taking care of them because I won't do that, because I know the repercussions of pad slapping and what could happen against CYA is just stupid. And that's what drives me nuts, is because it's. I'm not ripping them off. I'm not scamming them. I'm not not taking care of them. I gave them a shop to do it. I'm just not the shop that's going to do it because I don't want to be the shop that they're coming back to four months later saying, well, you just put brake pads on my car. And I know you told me it could make noise, but now it's making all this noise.
Jeff Compton [01:15:32]:
And I never did that before, Never.
Chris Enright [01:15:34]:
Did it before, blah, blah, blah.
Mike Allen [01:15:36]:
No, they come back and they say, I don't remember that conversation.
Chris Enright [01:15:38]:
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Mike Allen [01:15:39]:
So that's, that's part of the benefit of being a small business is that you have the ability to be selective like that.
Chris Enright [01:15:45]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [01:15:45]:
Whereas if you've got 15 stores and you've got 45 advisors that are all on commission, they're going to say, yes, bring it. Yes, bring it, do it. Whatever we got to do, do it.
Chris Enright [01:15:57]:
Do it, do it.
Mike Allen [01:15:57]:
Right. And so that's where I made the joke with Brian last week. And I think I'm going to get some T shirts made to this effect is high level scalability. I think you have to be willing to accept a degree of mediocrity. And so part of the evil shop owner shtick is gonna be, you know, follow me to scalable mediocrity. You know, so. But anyway, I. You've.
Mike Allen [01:16:27]:
You've already been here for an hour. 15 minutes, man. I really appreciate you coming and hanging out with us, talking. It's always, it's always a good time.
Chris Enright [01:16:34]:
It is every time.
Mike Allen [01:16:35]:
I'm sorry Brian couldn't be here to join us this time. Thank you, surrogate Brian, for being here. I appreciate you.
Jeff Compton [01:16:40]:
It's fine. I quite appreciate trying to fill that man's shoes.
Mike Allen [01:16:44]:
Well, you know, after you sweat it all over me at AFCA Expo, if.
Chris Enright [01:16:48]:
You really want to fill his shoes, you'll do his only feet for this week.
Jeff Compton [01:16:51]:
Oh, no, no, you don't want to see that. Yeah, well, that, I mean, and that's the thing. I was sitting there halfway through getting bounced around like a, you know, a pinata, and I realized that this is. This is his payback for the sumo wrestler. This is what this is. Okay, good enough. Now I remember the sumo wrestler lasting five minutes max. This is two hours of being like, crunch, bang.
Mike Allen [01:17:13]:
I kept looking over at him and he had a death grip on the two old shit bars. And he comes down and he has a blister on his hand from holding onto the old shit bar.
Chris Enright [01:17:21]:
Oh, my God.
Jeff Compton [01:17:21]:
But it was a good time.
Mike Allen [01:17:22]:
Yeah, it was. Thanks for coming, man. Appreciate you.
Chris Enright [01:17:25]:
See you guys.
Jeff Compton [01:17:25]:
Chris, as always, love you, bro.
Mike Allen [01:17:26]:
Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner where we lay it all out. The good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink? You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email Mike Confessions of a shop owner.com or call and leave a message. The number 704-confess. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to, like, subscribe or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership.
Mike Allen [01:18:03]:
I'll see you on next the next episode.
Jeff Compton [01:18:33]:
You know I said jesse.