What happens when you build a breakthrough product, secure patents, attract investors—and then watch a multi-billion-dollar corporation release a copy before you've had the chance to scale?

In this episode of the Growth Mavericks Podcast, Adam Callinan sits down with entrepreneur and inventor Amanda Sima to discuss one of the most difficult realities founders can face: intellectual property theft.

Amanda shares her journey from launching a successful licensed apparel company to inventing a globally unique children's spill-proof cup lid that she believed could become a billion-dollar business. After exposing the product to begin scaling, she says a major corporation copied the concept, designed around her patent, secured their own intellectual property, and ultimately forced her company out of business.

The conversation explores patents, trade secrets, licensing, corporate piracy, litigation, resilience, founder psychology, and why entrepreneurs must balance protecting their ideas with exposing them to the market.

More importantly, Amanda explains how she's turning years of hardship into Brain On Loan, a platform dedicated to helping entrepreneurs avoid the mistakes she experienced while encouraging founders to keep building despite setbacks.

Whether you're launching your first product, filing your first patent, or navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship, this episode offers invaluable lessons on innovation, perseverance, and protecting what you create.

Key Takeaways

Amanda's path from political fundraising to entrepreneurship.
Building a successful licensed collegiate apparel company.
Navigating licensing agreements with major universities.
The realities of corporate piracy and idea theft.
Design patents vs. utility patents explained.
Why exposing your product is both necessary and risky.
Building a competitive moat through brand and customer loyalty.
Choosing the right attorneys and protecting intellectual property.
Turning adversity into a mission through Brain On Loan.
Why embracing pain is essential to entrepreneurial success.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:25 Amanda's entrepreneurial journey

04:45 Building a licensed apparel company

09:10 Corporate piracy begins

15:20 Inventing a spill-proof children's cup

20:00 Losing a billion-dollar opportunity

24:30 Patent battles and legal lessons

29:30 Fighting corporate piracy

34:30 Brain On Loan

36:00 Building resilience as an entrepreneur

40:00 Managing setbacks and founder mindset

42:00 Final thoughts

Explore

Growth Mavericks Podcast
https://www.growthmaverickspodcast.com

Pentane
https://www.pentane.com

Brain On Loan
https://www.brainonloan.com

Creators and Guests

Host

Adam Callinan

Adam Callinan is the founder of Pentane, a financial and advertising command center that empowers brands to drive predictable revenue and intentional profit. Previously, Adam co-founded BottleKeeper, a bootstrapped consumer brand that scaled to $8M in sales within three years – without employees – and was later acquired in 2021 as an eight-figure business with a team of four, marking Adam's second successful exit.

What is Growth Mavericks?

This podcast dives deep into the tactical moves that drive business success, as well as the mental and physical resilience required to sustain it.

Hosted by Adam Callinan, a seasoned entrepreneur with multiple exits, an avid outdoorsman, and an family man with crystal-clear priorities, each episode unpacks real-world challenges, actionable insights, and the mental and physical disciplines that fuel long-term personal and professional growth.

Whether you’re scaling a startup or refining your mindset, disrupting your default is how business and life strike a balance.

Adam Callinan (00:05)
Today we're gonna talk about what happens when you build what you believe is a huge potential company, billion dollar idea, and expose it

just enough to scale and then watch a massive corporation come in and copy it before you really have a chance to build anything. The conversation centers heavily a l around patents and intellectual property, with the huge caveat that I am not an attorney, our guest is not an attorney.

We spend time talking about corporate piracy and the real pain behind building something original, which is ⁓ something I'm very acutely familiar with from my bottlekeeper days.

We get into a lot, but this conversation is really about resilience. It is about learning to embrace pain, how to protect your ideas without becoming absolutely paralyzed, turning negatives into positives, and using your own hardship to help other founders keep going. Our guest is Amanda Sima. I am Adam Callinan This is Growth Mavericks.

Adam Callinan (01:26)
have you always been entrepreneurial or is that a a bug that struck you late? I was not the kid that was like selling rocks to the neighbors or or managing a tribe of multi level marketing school kids. So that me later in life.

Amanda Sima (01:36)
Yeah, no, same. Like

Yeah, I never even did like a lemonade stand. ⁓ I was just I was I was I was a shy kid, very introverted. I I still kind of am shy. no, I mean I I definitely have always been a creator of some kind. and I wouldn't say artistic, but creative w as a young child. And I went to college.

I went to the Ohio State University, graduated in 2005 with an absolutely worthless history degree. thought I was gonna go to law school and took one pre-law class, and I was like, no, this is too disciplined for me, too disciplined thinking. Like, as much as the law fascinates me, I just knew pretty quickly like that wasn't right for me. So I'm like, what am I gonna do with this degree? was really into politics. I had a history professor who

I befriended and she connected me with a campaign. At the time in Ohio, there was a gubernatorial race. I joined a campaign, they threw me into fundraising. So before I knew it, I was traveling the state raising money for this high-profile campaign. And so I was like meeting a ton of entrepreneurs, self-made businessmen, women. And I think that was like the first time it sort of manifested to in my mind, like, you know.

Th there's a real path to financial freedom. There's a real path to building generational wealth for your family. you know, I had just come from a middle class family, my parents worked nine to five. Knew I never wanted to do that. I was like really unattracted to their lifestyle. but that was really the first time that I was like, these guys can do it. They're like, they're just like me. Like I can do it, right?

And so I continued to fundraise. I would say probably my first sort of delve into entrepreneurship was just very quickly I started working for myself. So I was like taking on multiple candidates and just had like my own little firm in Ohio. I wouldn't even call it a firm. I just had my own little I just worked for myself, took on clients as I could, mostly statewide races. And ⁓ th yeah, then I you know, I say a lot with business ideas.

You're either kind of inspired by something, or you're inspired to like solve a problem. And with my first business, I was definitely inspired by something. obviously a big Ohio State fan, giant fan base. It's just like a culture in in Columbus, Ohio. And my grandmother had like a ton of merchandise from the decade, like decades-long merchandise in her basement. She was just kind of a hoarder. And

She gave me a vintage Ohio State sweater one day and I wore it on game day and I was like, this is really cool. Like this does not exist. And what if I recreated this, modernized a little and sold it? And so that was sort of my first delve into entrepreneurship and ⁓ like my real first business at the age of twenty six was alma mater. It was a licensed apparel company.

Adam Callinan (04:44)
How did you negotiate licensing like that then? Because I'm sure it's changed a lot.

Amanda Sima (04:50)
Yeah, you know, I don't know what it is now. I think it's probably much more competitive now because some of the companies have gotten so big. But definitely back then, even like I was up against Nike and like Adidas, like the largest apparel companies in the world. and that yeah, so the very first thing I did was delve into the licensing. because I knew how competitive it would be. And really the only way you get a license.

in and in I think in any sports market is like you have to have something different that no one else is doing. And it has to be creative enough where the school thinks there's like a market for it because they want to make money on your company. I knew I wasn't gonna get Ohio State right off the bat because it was probably the most sought after license, maybe still is, even though I was an alumni. so I actually went to a couple

Bigger schools, D1 schools, that did licensing in-house, which meant I didn't have to go through a third-party contractor. I just went, I worked straight with the licensing department. Thought that might be a little bit of an easier procedure, and that was University of Iowa and Michigan State. And got both of those licenses, which I think immediately gave me a little bit of credibility.

And so then once I had those under my belt and I had like a little bit of sales history, and honestly, the garments just w spoke for themselves. I mean, they were high quality, they were super unique and not easily like replicated. Like it's not something in even Nike's wheelhouse, right? And so, yeah, when I applied, unfortunately, that was sort of my first experience with corporate piracy.

Because Ohio State at the time had employed an apparel company as their main licensee. And if you wanted to become an apparel licensee, you would be considered a sub-licensee under an apparel comp this large apparel company. And I thought, well, I'm not really comfortable with that because the application process is pretty in-depth. Like you have to disclose everything from your designs to your factories to your sales strategies. I mean, any everything.

maybe with the exception of your spec sheet. Like it made me uncomfortable. especially because I I knew I had something super unique. And in apparel, as you know, that's nothing you can patent or copyright, you know. So I obliged and I I applied. and so yeah, and by this time I had brought on like friends and family investors. So I had some money. I had some significant money behind me. and I was thrilled. We got the news that

you know, we got the license and I was like, okay, this is like we're on a nut we're on a path to growth now because I knew pretty quickly other licensees would fall in line like massively after we got Ohio State. And then like two weeks later, I get an email like, sorry, no, you didn't get the license. That was a mistake. And we were like, what?

Like how does how do you how you how is that a take-see backsee? Like, you know, it's a pretty significant process. And ⁓ my uncle was an executive for an a Fortune 500 apparel company in town, and he was my first investor, and he's like, you know, maybe check with your factory to see if anything funny's going on. And so I so I emailed my factory and I'm like, did a company contact you about making sweaters similar to mine? And

Never in a million years I think he would say yes, and he said yes. And I was like, is this the name of the company? And he said yes. And I'm like, and he showed me all the correspondence. So they basically tried to cut me out of the process, take my concepts, take my factory, and take my license. And luckily, in that situation, just like I did with my current legal situation, like I went straight to the CEO.

of the company. And I'm like, look what your staff did, you know. He had no argument. I mean, he's like, I he acted like he didn't know, maybe he didn't know. He said, sorry, we'll cut that out. And you you got the license. So that was my very dramatic path to gaining the Ohio State license. And after that, yeah, we we amassed a portfolio pretty easily.

Adam Callinan (09:08)
What a wild eye opening experience.

Amanda Sima (09:12)
Yeah, you know, there's another layer to it too, because and I talk about a this a lot in like my podcast appearances because you know, if you have a concept or creation or an invention and you're really scared about exposing it because you're afraid of conduct like that, it's like a real thing. And like but you ha but you get to a point in your business where you can't you can't keep your baby inside anymore, right? You gotta expose it a little. And I was feeling really uncomfortable

⁓ with that whole process. And and I knew that at this point, okay, I needed some sales reps maybe to help me. And I met with a sales rep who represented that company, that apparel company, and said to me, I can sell, I can sell this all day long. And in reality, it's like I left and he like picked up the phone and called his larger client and was like, just take this and I'll sell it. You know what I mean? I feel like that's what happened. And so, you know, it's just like

y yeah, you get to a point where you have to expose your product. There's no way around it. There's always gonna be bad actors. Maybe you're gonna be fortunate enough to scale. and in my case, you know, of course it w it was that that's like a classic trade secret litigation. But I wasn't interested in going to court. Like I I was so passionate about that line and that business that

I let it go, you know, we said, Okay, water under the bridge, give me the license and I'm I'm glad I did 'cause I, you know, learned how to scale a company over the next twelve years.

Adam Callinan (10:42)
So in that circumstance, you actually let them proceed with that product with your manufacturing. You just took the license. okay. Yeah, maybe I misunderstood that. Okay. Got

Amanda Sima (10:49)
Yeah. No, they stopped. Yeah, no, they cut

it out. He said we'll cut it out. And ⁓ in hindsight, really no one did it. After that, no one really knocked us off. There might be sweaters out there now. I don't really follow the industry closely anymore. But we were like we were pretty safe for twelve years and we went beyond nits too. We we were kind of we were going and and there's another form of protection too, once you have the licenses.

you know, the the university's not gonna allow duplicitous apparel, right? So I think we were protected by that too. So if someone else came to them and said, Well, we have a line of letterman sweaters too, probably not gonna get the license, they'll say, Thanks, but no thanks, but like we already have a licensee, come to us with something different. So it's I think we had that form of protection too, because we were pretty safe, yeah, as we grew the company from there.

Adam Callinan (11:44)
There's always this decision process. And I it's a harder one for younger or at least earlier stage entrepreneurs that haven't spent a lot of time in the entrepreneurial space. And that is this imbalance of risk and reward that we need to like constantly be creating. That's most of the decision making we do as entrepreneurs is built around minimizing the downside and maximizing the upside, making this asymmetric outcome.

And that's a perfect example of it. You know, going into it that there's going to be, you know, you know it now because you went through it. And these are great things to be able to share with other earlier stage entrepreneurs. You you know that there's going to be some exposure risk in showing the product or up, I mean like connecting your factory to a potential competitor, but the upside potential with a university system like that obviously can can massively outweigh the what if and the risk.

Amanda Sima (12:39)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again and apparel gave me like I said, a lot of anxiety because the very first thing I did was, how can I protect it? Right. because it was so novel. And I was like, you can't, you can't protect it. And I chose to just risk it, you know. ⁓ it worked out okay for me with at

Adam Callinan (12:39)
that's a really, really interesting example of that.

Amanda Sima (13:03)
I had to fight for it, unfortunately, you know, ⁓ against those first that first corporation. But I think that's well said. Like you did you have to get to a point in your mind and at peace, once you've put all protections in place, that it's time to just sell and scale because sales and scale and brand equity is gonna be your greatest protection. it's like the moat.

around the castle is what how I describe it. And I went into this discussion with one at one of my first podcast experien appearances. The host is like, My listeners want to know how I build a moat. And so I kinda ran with that, like that castle analogy. And it's like, well a moat is designed to protect a castle, right? And a castle's got walls. Walls are penetrable. They're not bulletproof, but they're important. So those are like your NDAs and your patents and

your agreements that people won't talk or take steal, but they're not bulletproof. And so then I went on to a bridge. Well a bridge is like who you give access to, who gets access to you, who gets access to your product and your sales strategies. And I think that's an important protection. Also not bulletproof, none of this is, but you know, keeping that inner circle really in the beginning very local and

as close to you as you possibly can. ⁓ with my second invention I talk about a lot. ⁓ you know, the engineer lived 20 minutes down the street from me. I didn't go hire a giant firm to help me create, you know, I went down the street to a guy who built airplanes for a living. And that's a guy that takes his NBA seriously, right? He's got a small business that he's got to stay in business. He has no interest in being in litigation. So that's kind of an example of like

maybe the bridge and giving access to to you in the early stages. But then, you know, the the moat is the greatest it's the greatest protection because you're suddenly in the wild west of the free market and competition. And so yeah, again in my mind it's like selling and scaling, gaining a following, maybe it's loyal customers and just that brand equity that is the greatest protection and it doesn't come without risk.

Adam Callinan (15:19)
What was product number two or the next the next invention from Engineer Twenty Minutes Away?

Amanda Sima (15:24)
Yeah, ⁓ so at the t so this was a company I created to solve a problem. at the time I had a two-year-old toddler and we I was just tired of like going out to dinner and she would get the kids' meal and they'd bring like an adult cup and she would tip it up in a spill or you know, she'd tip it up to drink like this. Like she drinks her sippy cups at home or she would knock it over and it's just like it's a constant headache for parents. And

⁓ I just kind of looked at the cup, like why do we have disposable cups for adults but not kids? And I mean, meaning there were some cups, kids' cups in market that had fun art on them or whatever, but it was just a different rendition of like an adult cup, you know? And it it it it looked nothing like what they used at home. And so I designed a lid, a spill-proof lid, exclusively for kids, which included a sip spout.

For younger kids who have sippy cups at home, a straw slot for older kids. And then I think like the best part of the invention is just the lid around the rim, how it affixes to the cup. When you knock it over, it doesn't pop off, it doesn't spill. So it's a spill-proof lid geared towards kids. And it seemed so common sense to me. And so I started doing research and nothing like it existed.

⁓ again there were some kind of hardier kids' cups in market, but it was just a cup and a lid and a straw. Nothing like that I had created. And so and t honestly and to the point where like my patent attorney was like, You're not gonna get a design patent on this. It's so like general and common sense and I'm like, No, it it doesn't exist. It's globally unique.

And ⁓ sure enough she was wrong because I did get the design patent in the United States and in the EU. it was and is probably an invention I'm most proud of. I don't consider myself really a solopreneur. I've like always wanted to build a billion dollar business. Very inspired by like Sarah Blakely with Spanx, who just like started from nothing and like knowing her ⁓ you know.

the the the struggles that she went through in sourcing and just the ability to scale something like that. And I knew I had that ability. And in my mind, this was my unicorn company. This was a billion dollar idea because number one, it was globally unique. Number two, the volume of of usage is in the billions every year. And it's not really seasonal. It doesn't I mean there's billions of kids in in the world that

use kids' cups. And so the category was very, very sleepy, very limited competition. And by the way, meaning there's only a few corporations in the world that specialize in kids' cups. But there's billions of kids in the world. And by the way, my design was globally unique. Like and it was right around the time that everyone was going strawless. So pretty quickly got an investor, finalized the prototype.

here with a couple engineers and then sourced overseas for a factory who would produce it, built the tooling. And yeah, so unfortunately, the exact same scenario as my first company, I got to the point where I had to start exposing the product. And I knew I wanted to recruit a sales team, maybe like a team of outside sales reps who were already in these doors because.

plastics is very, very, very high volume. I mean, you're only making money if you're high volume. So I needed sales reps who had relationships and could get me in the door. And by the way, get me in the door quickly, because I knew it was like only a matter of time that someone would maybe copy it. And so I met with a sales rep at a trade show and he was repping a giant plastics corporation in that category, the Kids Cup category, didn't disclose that to me.

And was like, yeah, I think I can help you with this. And so I gave him the product, I gave him like marketing materials on it, you know, hey, we'll be in touch about like bringing you on board. Didn't hear back from him. And three months later, a multi-billion dollar corporation had a copycat product in market. And a couple weeks after that, I lost my investor.

He had no interest in going up against that, and I was out of business overnight. of course he denies it. He calls me delusional that they already had something like that in development, and to which I say ⁓ that would be the greatest coincidence on earth, just because the products were exactly the same. And so at first I

Adam Callinan (20:07)
they

did they design around your design

Amanda Sima (21:32)
Yeah,

I was just about to go into that because at first I was rig actually kind of flattered because like corporations that big don't copy something unless they see a significant revenue opportunity, right? And so I was actually I was kind of proud when I went to my investor, like, look, first copy, like I told you it was a good idea, and then I go straight to my design or my patent attorney after that, and she's like, You have no legal recourse because they design just around it.

Looks a little bit different. And I so devastated, went out of business, sat on that legal advice for two years, that I had no legal recourse. What really lit a fire under me to which led to my my current litigation is ⁓ a couple years I was still stewing about it, and so I was I went online and just started doing research, and I checked the patent office and saw that.

Not only did they get their own design patent on my design, they got a utility patent. Really bad legal advice I got in the beginning from my patent attorney. Don't get again, don't get the utility patent. It's expensive and you're never gonna get it. And well, sure enough, they got it. So for your listeners who may not know about patents, like there are the differences, now this protects how the lid functions. And so

Even if I said, you know what, my product is better, I want to compete, I'm legally precluded from doing that because the two products function the same. And that that just lit a fire under my ass because I was like, that is theft. It's one thing if you're gonna copy me and try to put you know your crappy product out there because mine's better. But to now say that I, you know, can't produce my own design.

really ⁓ just enraged me. And so I started talking to attorneys again. Had a lot of attorneys still. You don't have a patent case, you don't have a patent case. Finally I came across an attorney, praise God that I did. He's like, Yeah, you don't have a patent case, but you have like a trade secret case. You have unjust enrichment claims, you have breach of contract claims. I'm like, what? Like I had no idea any of this was like an opportunity for me. And so

Yeah, ⁓ that's what led to ⁓ me hiring a couple attorneys to pursue these claims. unfortunately my story I'm saying unfortunately a lot because I've had it unf I don't want to scare your listeners, just my my my experience in entrepreneurship has been sensational in good and bad ways. ⁓ I hired two attorneys. At this point I'm within eight months of my statute of limitations. So

pretty quickly had to decide what we were gonna do, right? And ⁓ so the partner on my case was based out of Chicago and for the like the the duration of him representing me, we were disagreeing on a lot. And more than once he told me to sort of in in one way or another to drop my case, I don't have claims. in the beginning he's like, you have viable claims worth big money, let's go get

And then we started digging into the case and we were just we were disagreeing on a lot. We were disagreeing on like wins that I was having against this corporation. And ⁓ it it ultimately led to like me getting terminated. I was terminated ⁓ like six months in yeah, like six months in by ⁓ the law firm as a client. Two weeks later, I found out the entire time he's representing me.

He's negotiating employment with the corporation's law firm where he now works as a partner. And so my claims in court against him are: well, first of all, you breached your duty to me. And second of all, were you doing that purposefully? Were you purposefully trying to talk me out of my case, right? And so I'm in litigation against my attorneys, the law firms, the corporation, the corporation's law firm. Because

Adam Callinan (25:14)
Yeah.

Amanda Sima (25:39)
I wanted to sell a disposable lid.

Adam Callinan (25:45)
There is so much packed in there. And I think that, you know, this is something that I I do get the opportunity to talk about quite a bit because I I also have a lot of experience in intellectual property. my story is very different, as all stories are very different. But there are great attorneys and horrible attorneys and great doctors and horrible doctors and great accountants and horrible accountants, and you have to be really, really careful who you

Amanda Sima (26:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam Callinan (26:12)
Who you

end up with and pick. And even if you are really careful, sometimes it goes, you know, can absolutely go sideways. And that's part of the risk, you know, that we that we end up taking. Our our story at Bottle Keeper, we we went down the utility path first. And, you know, obviously for the listener, if you're a regular listener of the show, you've heard me talk about this a little bit. Like, I'm not an attorney, full caveat. But you can very inexpensively file a

Amanda Sima (26:38)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Callinan (26:41)
What's called a provisional patent, which is a placeholder patent that lives for 12 months. It's like fifteen hundred dollars, two grand. See if the thing is worth doing. And then if it is, you have 12 months to convert that thing into a utility patent. Because in the world of patents, unlike in the world of trademarks, first to file gets priority on the patent, not first to use, which is different for trademarks and copyright. So getting that placeholder

Amanda Sima (26:42)
Exactly.

Right. That's right.

Adam Callinan (27:05)
from a utility patent standpoint, and then what you do is when that patent issues, you file what's called a continuation. So the patent stays open and you can amend it for this exact situation. When you have a company that designs around your thing, you can actually you have the open patent, you can re encapsulate that new design. And that's how like a tool company, for example, will start with one patent and five years later they have s two hundred and eighty patents on, you know, that really started as one that's just continuations that expand and tweak and change and

And at the end of the day, but the time that we got acquired, we had over forty patents and it was built largely on that thesis of of continuations, mostly off of utility patents. But it took us four law firms to get to that, to get to the point where we had the one that was like, they yep, they're this is different. And it was a lot of pain and suffering in between those two. Again, not nearly to the extent that you've had the pain and suffering with the legal s the intellectual property stuff, but

Amanda Sima (27:40)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Wow. Yeah.

Well, I mean, and the reason I'm doing these appearances and an opening up about my story is because, you know, it's not self-driven. I'm there's just too many of these stories and like any in any industry we can change the ecosystem of bad actors. if we're just willing to talk about it. It's like, you know, the company that has my copycat product is a private equity.

six billion private equity backed six billion dollar corporation like you want something you buy it you don't just take it and I talk a lot about you know in the United States we have antitrust laws and antitrust laws are in place I'm not a lawyer antitrust laws are in place to keep companies from getting too big one company acquiring another and suddenly the consumer is sort of at their mercy and I think there's a different sort of

Antitrust protection that needs to be going on behind the scenes, just like this, where corporations are taking products and designs that aren't there as part of their growth models and putting small business owners and creators out of business. I think it's harder than ever to build a company out of a concept, build a corporation out of a concept. I am living proof of it, you know. ⁓ so

And if we can sort change the conduct and start having conversations and create a movement, my hope is that we can mitigate this gross, unethical.

growth model of just piracy.

Adam Callinan (29:44)
So how do you aim, you know, outside of talking about it, do you have like a a plan or strategy? I mean, like are you, you know, are you running gonna run for office? Are you gonna, you know, lobby lobby in DC? Like how do you how do you start to like really impact or execute on that? I mean, look, that sounds incredible. I think anybody that's ever sold a consumer product online has has experienced some version of that, you know. I certainly have. So it is no question at.

Amanda Sima (29:54)
Okay.

Mm.

Adam Callinan (30:13)
a thing. How do you like really impact change in that?

Amanda Sima (30:19)
I mean, I you know, the next worst thing is our giant, bloated, dysfunctional, corrupt government. So I'm not gonna go the lobbying route ⁓ and waste my time in office. I you know, I think it's really kind of simp more simple than that. I I have three young daughters, 17, ⁓ 14, 9. Technology and social media is very powerful, and this is a generation that's gonna

They're gonna shop their values. And I so I think it's just exposure. I think it's just if we can create massive exposure about the truth of what's going on and continue to share stories like mine, ⁓ you know, we can start to expose companies and bad behavior. I I mean, I think that that's kind of been the trend as a history major you know, of our civilization. I mean, it's like

Things are good for you until suddenly they're not, right? We've been lied to. And ⁓ I think that there's just not been enough conversating about corporate piracy because people I mean, for if entrepreneurship, you know, any true entrepreneur knows that it's a really self-deprecating place to be. We are not that, you know, cocky, confident person.

behind the scenes we're questioning our decisions every day. We're questioning whether we can s succeed with this every day. So it's already a really vulnerable place to be. And so the reality is a lot of people just go away because they're like, well, they have the resources and they're they're bigger than me and what was I even thinking trying to do that? Like they just go away and that's like so sad. when really it's just someone's job behind a desk to take what you just

put two years into to grow some, you know, gross corporations. So I think we just continue to share our stories, have the conversations. It's a b I I would tell I'm gonna tell you, it's a bummer to me that the people are just telling me what happened to me didn't happen to me and that they're fighting it in court. Like that's a bummer, you know? Truth though always has a way of finding the surface for every one person.

Like me that fights, thousands go away. So I'm gonna keep talking about it, hoping to bring these people back. I do have my own platform called Brain On Loan. it's not sort of my new business. I I am starting another business. This isn't like my main like objective is to grow this into anything other than a a conversational movement around corporate piracy and you know, the other struggles of entrepreneurism, but

⁓ it's really just that, my brain on loan. If you have ⁓ anything similar that you're going through as a creator, an entrepreneur, a small business owner, you're thinking about starting a business. It could be how to start an LLC 101, it could be some like you, like I have a design patent, my attorney's telling me not to get a utility patent. Like what's your advice? You know, I just turn sort of my pain into other people's progress. and it's all free. You know, it's not you don't have to pay me to to coach you through anything.

And so I I I came up with this concept because I'm in year three of litigation. and I'm like, how can I like really spend my time positively during this time? Definitely remaining upbeat, but ⁓ for me, like creating is what makes me happy, giving back is what makes me happy. And again, I I thought ⁓ this is something that like widely doesn't exist, I think. The minute

I like send it out to my friends and family. I get my friend, I want to sell my business. I've no idea how. Can you walk me through it? And she's like, she's on the path to selling her business. It's just I think there's a lot of that out there. the and people don't know where to turn, so maybe they don't ever start something or finish something. And I hate the thought of that. So yeah, it's just like because I've worn so many hats, definitely, you know, with the legal stuff, that's another level.

I just feel like I can give back to creators and small business owners.

Adam Callinan (34:24)
How do you help, you know, one of the like the key tenants of

Having I hate using the word success, but I'm gonna use it. Having air quote success as an entrepreneur comes from being able to stay in the game for as long as humanly possible and not give up. And not, you know, in in the case of legal, which is a big, you know, like a big hairy, ugly, hard, really, really hard thing on top of just the entrepreneurship stuff. It's like a whole separate category. Yeah, how do you remain?

Amanda Sima (34:36)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Callinan (35:00)
In the game, how would you coach someone that reaches out to you via brain on loan that's you know is is hasn't had that first inflection point and is is on the precipice of giving up? How do you coach them through that? Or how do you coach yourself through it?

Amanda Sima (35:15)
Well, ⁓ I I mean the the lessons that we learn in business transfer to life, and there is no path to success. There's no path to success that's ⁓ easy and fun and invigorate like none of that. In fact, life is full of pain, and I'm really big about you kind of touched on it before we got started.

I'm really big about embracing pain as a positive thing in our lives. And because there's no way around it. I mean, you're gonna experience something painful next week, you're gonna experience something painful next year with in your personal life, in business, certainly in business. That's just your mindset is everything when you're building a company. And if you're excited about facing a challenge, if you're excited about pain as opposed to

⁓ dreading it, I I think you'll be astounded of what you how what you can get yourself through. to be worried and paranoid and ⁓ scared and unsure are all normal feelings, but they're really not productive. And so, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, I I also say this too, because then I'm gonna talk kind of b out of both sides of my mouth. I say also too like it's really important that entrepreneurs are

⁓ really honest with themselves. I spoke to a guy yesterday, he said it beautifully. When you're in this such close proximity of a creation of something of yours, you're so close to it. You kind of can't see what's going on around you. And so a great example is my friend who said who called me and said, I think I need to sell my business. I'm I I I can't do it anymore. It's affecting my health. And it's like time to make a hard decision, right?

Let it go. ⁓ I had to do that with my first business. I didn't I didn't exit my first business with millions of dollars. Like I didn't exit with anything. My investors took it over. I don't view that as a failure. I mean, I grew something really cool. ⁓ I wasn't able to I wasn't able to continue running it when when it got that big. But so anyway, going back to your original question is just like embrace the pain. Pain is a very

good productive thing in your life that you're gonna grow from because it's always lighter on the other side of that struggle and there's no way around it, so you might as well embrace it.

Adam Callinan (37:40)
Are there things that that you do or you would advise doing to gain that?

perspective. I mean, it's I guess on the one hand, it's like it's easy to say embrace the pain or like just get comfortable being uncomfortable. but it's, you know, it's like it's a practice. It, you know, that takes time, right? Like are there

Are there things that you would advise that person to do? You know, go do hard things outdoors, go, you know, what you know, go yeah, kind of like how do you build that durability outside of the business so that you have it in the business?

Amanda Sima (38:14)
Like COVID. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean like coping techniques. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I it sounds really lame, but I know when I when I had some when I had struggles in my first business, I would go yeah, I would go on like really long walks or really long bike rides and just like empty my brain. I would go to Target and just wander around and like

You know, it was like I would put myself out of business mode and back into mom mode, right? I'd kind of give my I I would embrace that because as an entrepreneur, you know, you're not just an entrepreneur, you're a lot of other things. I'm a wife, I'm a mother. Those things kind of, you know, your identity as an entrepreneur sort of takes over. and I found a lot of peace in, yeah, like kind of just

dropping that persona for a a limited amount like for a limited amount of time and just settling into mom mode or settling into wife mode. And then, you know, I'd wake up the next day and like my struggles are still there and I had to like barrel through it. I think also too that good entrepreneurs turn negatives into positives, right? So ⁓ like I said, what's a positive use of my time? I'm stewing

And moping is not a positive use of my time. And so I think if you're going through any kind of struggle in your business, that's a it's a challenge. Accept it as a challenge. Try to outthink the challenge, right? Creatively think. take it on as a fun challenge. I know it's easy to say, but I I I think if you really put to work like what I'm saying, it it will it will pull you out of whatever struggle you're in.

Adam Callinan (40:04)
Yeah, I I absolutely agree that getting away from it, whatever that means for you, whether it's going for a run in the woods or or beandering meandering through Target, I think is just just so critical. Just get yourself away from the situation.

Amanda Sima (40:13)
Yeah, like it is

Yeah, and also, you know, it's funny, ⁓ my husband works in heart surgery and I'm like a big crossword person. And so I said to him one time, Neil, I it's weird, like sometimes I just can't get that word. And I put it away and I come back and it comes right to me. And he's like, We do that in surgery all the time.

We're ha we're struggling with a vein, struggling with the vein, put it aside, focus on another part, come back to it, it works. So I think if you have something you're struggling with in business, just like you step away from it because cleanse yourself of it and then come back with a new kind of refreshed look and that it could it'll come to you like, I know what I need to do. It's important.

Adam Callinan (41:06)
Agreed entirely. Where would you like for people to find you and brain on loan if that's a thing that you're you're publicly sharing or if that's a friends and family thing? ⁓ where do you where do you want people to find you?

Amanda Sima (41:18)
No, yeah. Brain On Loan.

Brainon Loan dot com. It's a really simple website. It's just like one page. You submit a question. I have my own podcast. Sometimes I air the questions and I'll answer it with a guest or just by myself. Or if I don't air it, I still reply. ⁓ I've already helped, you know, a few people with really important, I just feel like I gave them really good direction on.

some really important pieces or stages that their businesses are at. So yeah, again, if I just like help one person connect two people that can help each other, I'm happy about it. So it's just, yeah, brainonlone.com.

Adam Callinan (41:58)
Amazing. We'll make sure that we have that link and any others that you give me after in the show notes. Thank you for coming and being honest and open. That's where all the good stuff is. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Amanda.

Amanda Sima (42:09)
Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah.