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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
DISCLAIMER: Raw, unedited transcript from the podcast. Please excuse any errors.
Meredith:
Well, hello, everyone. Thanks for tuning in to the Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast where we share biblical truth for any girl, in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here with my co-host, the one and only.
Kaley:
Oh, boy.
Meredith:
Kaley Olson.
Kaley:
That's so cheesy, but here we are. And you know what? Speaking of cheese, Meredith, we've been really cheesy for six years now on the podcast.
Meredith:
Six years on this podcast.
Kaley:
Can you believe it? We have a first-grader.
Meredith:
Wow.
Kaley:
Basically. And that's a lot. Can I just say what this is? Six years means we've recorded over 180 episodes, which equates to about 6,000 minutes of content, and that was-
Meredith:
Wow.
Kaley:
... on the low average. I think I averaged it about 35 minutes and some go way over that. Our podcast producer, Jenna, is shaking her head because she knows sometimes when we get into it, we should get into it. But we're celebrating for sure by rolling out some cute new artwork because it's been a minute.
Meredith:
We love that. Let's freshen her up a little.
Kaley:
So we have a little new look-
Meredith:
[inaudible 00:01:15] blow up.
Kaley:
... but we're still the same us on the inside.
Meredith:
Yes.
Kaley:
But Meredith, do you remember when we first started the podcast and we would just do the thing we just did the thing.
Meredith:
Like, here we are. But I have really enjoyed the last six years. It's been really fun and all of the episodes continue to just be something that speak to me and I know speak to our listeners. And so if you've been along for the ride for all six years or maybe you've just joined us, thank you. This has been so fun and we can't wait to just keep going. You can't stop us.
Kaley:
What a privilege. What a privilege it has been for sure. I think I have a little... I did. Well, I wanted you to read a testimony because this really means a lot to me, so can you read it to our listeners?
Meredith:
I would love to you all. I first of all want to say thank you so much for those of you who go in and leave any kind of testimonials or reviews, it blesses us so deeply. It really means so much to us because it reminds us of why we do this. So we wanted to share this. It's titled, which I think is so cute, It's a God Thing, and this listener writes, "When you stumble across a podcast that you feel God has met you where you are that day, maybe no one else, but God even knows what you're struggling with. You follow his lead, then experienced a divine appointment with him. It brings peace and comfort. God is in control. He knows everything and cares about every detail of your life. Thank you God, for sending your Holy Spirit to guide us through this life. Thank you for those that share their knowledge and what you have taught them with others. Bless their ministry for your kingdom." And it's just...
Kaley:
I love that.
Meredith:
I love it. I love that this gal experienced a divine appointment through this podcast, really blesses my heart.
Kaley: Me too. And what they don't know is that before every episode we pray because one, we should, but two, we know that there's people listening everywhere who are all walking through different seasons and facing some really hard stuff. Or maybe you're not and you just need a moment, but it's so cool to me how God can just take one podcast episode and use it in different ways to meet our listeners right where they are. And so like Meredith said, we love hearing from you. And so if you're listening and are able to write a written review on Apple Podcasts, we would love to know what your story is and how this podcast has helped you.
Also, if you want to DM me on Instagram, this is really weird, but a couple of weeks ago, months ago on the podcast, we talked about hair and people DMed me on Instagram because I said, "Just go to at Kaley Olson, K-A-L-E-Y O-L-S-O-N, on Instagram and comment or whatever." So if you have a topic that you want to know more about or if there's somebody that you want us to bring on the podcast who would also deliver a great teaching that we don't know about, just hit me up on the Instagram DMs and tell me, who knows? Maybe it'll be an episode.
Meredith:
We're real people who have real social media that we check.
Kaley:
Yes.
Meredith:
All right. Kaley.
Kaley:
Yes.
Meredith:
I am so excited about our show today. One of my very favorite human beings, Gloria Umanah, is on the show and we dive into a topic that honestly I so desperately needed this week. It is all about ambition. It's all about bearing true fruit and what God's assignment is and what it is not, and so I cannot wait for our listeners to hear this, so let's dive in.
Kaley:
All right, friends, let's welcome our guest for today, Gloria Umanah. Welcome, Gloria.
Gloria: Hey, guys. How are you doing?
Kaley:
So good.
Meredith:
So good. And we are just stinking excited for you to be here. For those of you-
Gloria:
Same.
Meredith:
Yes, I love it. For those of you who don't know, Gloria, you'll be big fans, I promise, by the end of today's episode. We've gotten to know Gloria over the past few years and have worked with her in a few different ways originally where this is so fun. We got connected with her as a spoken word artist and she did a piece for us that we loved, loved, loved. And I did a little interview with her and I was like, "Oh, there is more to this young lady-"
Kaley:
So much more.
Meredith:
... than spoken word talents, and so we actually had her back as one of our keynote speakers at She Speaks in 2023, and you all, I still reference my notes from her message on a regular basis. So good. So she most recently founded an organization that I think is really cool. She's the CEO of Hope Booths, whose mission is to provide individuals a free and accessible experience to encounter hope, affirm their dignity and serve as a connection point to finding local help and support on their journey to mental health all through a re imagined telephone booth.
Gloria:
I love this-
Meredith:
So cool.
Gloria:
... and we're going to talk about it at the end because there's more they need to know.
Meredith: Yes. So one of the things I like to do, as our listeners know, when we bring a new team member or staff or anybody on the show is ask them a random fact about themselves that they can think of. So Gloria, here you are. Are you ready? I just want to know-
Gloria:
Yes, I'm ready.
Meredith:
Share with me something that I just wouldn't believe about you. Like you would be like, "You would never guess I did this." Or I'll give an example. We have one of the girls on our staff here at Proverbs, she's blonde, honestly looks like a Barbie. She went through an intense emo phase where she only shopped at Hot Topic.
Gloria:
I'm pretty sure she had blue hair at one point too.
Meredith:
She had blue hair and you would never guess that if you met her right now. So it could be that-
Gloria:
Oh, my goodness.
Meredith:
That's an example. Or maybe, I don't know, you are actually a skydive instructor. I don't know.
Kaley:
That would not surprise me either.
Meredith:
[inaudible 00:06:50].
Gloria:
Okay, that's a good question. I feel like every time someone asks for a random question, I go into this deep identity crisis and I'm like, "Wait, who am I?"
Meredith:
Gloria needs [inaudible 00:07:00].
Gloria:
Something random or fun fact about me. I have almost gotten kidnapped in Israel and I spent about three hours in the middle of this very strange experience where I had to basically run and hide from a kidnapper.
Meredith:
Wow.
Kaley:
That's terrifying.
Gloria:
So maybe not what you were expecting.
Meredith:
I was trying to catch my breath and my thoughts right now. I have so many questions.
Kaley:
I do too. I would say though, that makes a great truth for three truths and a lie about yourself because-
Gloria:
It's very true.
Kaley:
Because people would not believe that, but I believe you, Gloria, because you're an honest person.
Gloria:
Amen. [inaudible 00:07:49] trust in me.
Kaley:
It's like a mini recap of an episode of some kind of political TV show you'd see on Netflix where something happens and it's all solved within an hour though unfortunately, you have to live it out in real life where I would've enjoyed watching the episode but not participating [inaudible 00:08:06].
Gloria:
No, truly. I told the story on Instagram once and it took about I think 60 stories to do it.
Kaley:
Wow.
Gloria:
And it was the greatest retention and stories I've ever had in the history-
Meredith:
I'm sure.
Gloria:
... on my Instagram.
Meredith:
I hope you saved it as a highlight.
Gloria: I saved it.
Meredith:
Oh, good.
Gloria:
We can add it. We can add it as the show notes.
Meredith:
Yeah. We'll drop it in the show notes.
Kaley:
It's like true crime that is true, and not really fully a crime. Anyways, I'm going to go watch it after this, but we actually have business to get down to. So earlier, Meredith, you mentioned last year, Gloria's teaching at She speaks was so good, and you and I were like, "We've got to have her on the show. Can she adapt that message for our podcast audience so that it's a little bit more wide-reaching and applies to more people?" And we were like, "We've got to do it," and then we reached out to Gloria and she was like, "Yes," which you're so kind to say yes. And Gloria, today we're so excited to just give you an opportunity to have the mic and be able to share that with our audience so you can take it away.
Gloria:
Absolutely. It's always a privilege getting to be a part of Proverbs 31 Ministry and all of the great work that you guys do. But I'm especially grateful to have joined in person last year and share on the topic of intimacy with the Father. It was really powerful and I'm excited to dive a little bit deeper into that same topic today. And so it was in 2020 during a long walk where the Lord revealed to me a revelation that was so profound and helpful for me, and I believe that same revelation will be helpful for everyone listening today. And it was one simple statement and the statement was, efficacy in our assignment is dependent on intimacy with our savior. I'll say that again. Efficacy in our assignment is dependent on intimacy with our savior. See, I learned this concept when I was reading Genesis 1 with fresh eyes.
In Genesis 1:2 it says, "Now, the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was over the surface of the deep and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters." From verse 3 through 26, most of you guys have read Genesis 1, so you'll know what I'm talking about. But from verse 3 through 26, we see a multitude of these, let there be statements that are made by God where he decrees, "Let there be blank," and that very thing comes into fruition. He says, "Let there be vault between the waters to separate water from water," and there we see that the sky was created. He says, "Let there be light," and then we see that light was created. So he has this moment where he's speaking and declaring let there be, and that very thing comes into fruition.
Now, remember in verse two, what I just read, "Now, the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was over the surface of the deep and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters." He speaks and it's really powerful to see what happens in verse two because he says that the earth was formless and empty. People don't even realize that that was a reality of earth right from the beginning. It was formless, it was empty and darkness was over the surface of the deep. He speaks let there be and suddenly there's form where there was once formlessness in the world, there's light where there was once darkness, where there was once void there's now filling. And so what I love about this passage is in verse 27, after the multitude of let there be statements that are spoken, the last let there be that's prophetically spoken of in the scripture is us. It's when God created mankind in his own image.
It was me, it was you. It was all of humanity. And so what we can't miss is this reality that as he spoke, that let there be spirit over us, he deposited a let there be spirit inside of us so that we would then be empowered in our divine assignment to speak, let there be and there would no longer be darkness in our world, that we would then be empowered in our divine assignment to speak, let there be and bring filling to our culture, that we'd be empowered in our divine assignment to speak, let there be and there would no longer be formlessness in our families and generations to come. But here's what I think we can't miss that's so powerful. In Genesis 1:2, again, before any let there be a spoken, it says the spirit, that's the rock of God, the breath of God.
It says, "The spirit of God hovered over the surface of the deep." Hovering is a form of intimacy. Hovering is a form of proximity. Hovering is a form of closeness. See one synonym, that's the word. One synonym for hovering that really stood out to me was to linger. See the Lord hovered, he lingered before he went and operated in an assignment with efficacy, which proves to me that intimacy proceeds efficacy. See, because efficacy in our assignment is dependent on intimacy with our savior. Six times in the scripture I counted that after God spoke, let there be and that very thing formed, the scripture says, "God saw that it was good." That good, that term is not used in scripture the way we would use good today to describe something, the word good in the Hebrew is tov, which means to be in perfect harmony with God.
So throughout Genesis 1, Elohim hovers over the surface of the deep, then he steps into an assignment and speaks let there be, then he steps back, sees his creation and says, "This is tov," harmonizing imperfect unity with him, doing what it was created to do in the fullness of its design. That is what we call efficacy. It's the ability to produce a desired or intended result because it's only by way of intimacy with the spirit of God that we can operate with accuracy. Because to carry out a God-given assignment requires God given power, which only comes by way of his presence. And remember that synonym for hovering, to linger? What happens when you choose to linger in his presence? Ask yourself that. What happens when we choose to linger in his presence, when we choose to sit a little longer despite our endless to-do list for anyone who's a tea drinker, that's me.
I could drink tea even at midnight. I actually did that last night. That's probably why I'm tired today. But for anyone who's a tea drinker, then you know better than anyone else that the longer the tea sits, the stronger it gets. The longer that tea lingers in that hot water, the stronger it becomes. And dare I say, a believer in the presence of God is no different. How long would you be willing to sit at his feet? How long are you willing to linger in his presence? What would happen if you committed to a life of tearing to wait on God until he speaks, until he moves, until he empowers, until he anoints you? Would the outcome not be the same as the word spoken in Acts 4:13? That's a moment that we all probably remember. The scripture says, "When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus."
They had been in his presence and his mark, his touch, his ruach, his anointing, his power is not only what separates them but what proved the efficacy of their assignment that everybody saw with their own two eyes, because what's deposited in the secret place is often what the world will attempt to manifest. But the simple truth that people don't want to hear sometimes is that you cannot manifest your way into anointing. My dad says it best, he's a prophet if you will, and he says, "Gloria, you can have the ambition to dream up anything, but you cannot force heaven to drop one bit of anointing." See, our world needs believers who have the ability to speak, let there be. And not only do things come to be, but it obliterates and shifts every atmosphere that we step into. See, God wants to deposit within us what generations to come desire and desperately need, that something supernatural is deposited in the secret place when we linger, when we linger. And this is something that can't be conjured up anywhere else.
There's this moment in Acts 8 that I'm always reminded of where Peter and John are laying hands on individuals and they're walking in the fullness of the spirit of God, and you can see they're operating in their assignments with full efficacy. It's visible. It is visible. And Simon, a local sorcerer witnesses this and he begins to covet it and he offers them money, he says, "Please give me this ability that you possess. I want to be able to do that too." And Peter responds in Acts 8:20 and it says this, "Peter answered, may your money perish with you because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money." See, it is the spirit of God that enables us to operate with accuracy. There's no shortcut around it. There's no other way we can go about it. See, the enemy would love for us to believe the lie that we can operate in our assignments on this earth in accuracy without the spirit of God as though the spirit of God is a suggestion.
But can I tell you? For the believer, the spirit of God is not a suggestion but a requirement. According to John 15, connected to the vine is the only place where true fruit is promised. Any fruit produced outside of the vine of Christ is simply false fruit. Or another way to put it, any fruit produced outside of the vine of Christ is simply demonic. And I know that is probably really hard to hear because we probably want to rationalize and say, "No, no, it's just ambition." No, it's actually quite literally according to the scripture, false fruit. And I think this is why Jesus opens up John 15:1 with another of his famous I am statements, but in a way that's so powerful. He says, John 15:1, "I am the true vine."
Jesus took the time to distinguish the fact that he was the true vine because he had to make it known that there were false vines. See, Jesus beckons us to become aware of false vines, ungodly methodologies, counterfeit sources that will deceive us to produce false fruit that are void of his spirit, void of his presence, void of his power, operating as a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Jesus is the true vine, the only connection with the God who gave life and the one who produces in us a fruitful life. As much as we try to attempt to do this life on our own and attempt to do all these great things for God in our own power, our own strength, our own intellect, the truth and reality is that we cannot live the Christian life in our own power. It is God's ability that makes us able to accomplish anything of value. Apart from him, we can do nothing pleasing unto him. That's what John 15:5 tells us, apart from him, we can bear no fruit.
So that leaves me with my main point, efficacy in our assignment is dependent on intimacy with our savior. One of my favorite verses throughout the Bible that I think is just so powerful that I consistently find myself going back to regularly lately is Matthew 7:21-23. It's a passage of scripture that we all probably know very well where many will say, "Lord, look at all of the things we have done in your name. We've prophesied, we've cast out demons, we've pastored churches, we've hosted Bible studies, we've been on the Proverbs 31 Podcasts," and the response to these people is, "Depart from me, you evildoer. I never knew you." Notice it says evildoers. These are not people who were sitting idly by. These are people who were doers. They were fulfilling their God-given assignments and they were doing it in his name.
They were not doing it in another name, they were doing it in his name. But the key is that they forsook his presence, and this begs the question, so what makes us credible in the end? These are people who have said, "I've been casting out demons, I've been pastoring churches, I've been hosting Bible studies, I've been prophesying," and it seems as though that is not what makes them credible. It is not their works. So the question is, is it ultimately the power or is it the person of Jesus? And I think if we're not careful, we will exploit the person of Jesus merely for the power of Jesus and we would have missed the whole point. See, the power of Jesus is fruit that is accompanied by an encounter with his spirit by regularly visiting his feet, by regularly sitting and lingering in his presence. His power enables us and emboldens us to walk into an assignment, but the goal is not the assignment.
We have to relinquish the temptation to make our relationship with Jesus transactional because the assignment is not the goal, he is, and our hearts and our spirits have to grasp that truth and that reality. Steffany Gretzinger says it best. She says, "The caller is the keeper." We have to be so careful that we aren't so interested in becoming doers and figuring out all of the tricks and strategies to produce fruit and be efficient in our assignments without having a deep intimate relationship with the father. And it sounds so elementary sometimes to say, but it really is the crux of it all, that at the core of it all, we would commit to digging deep wells because there we will not just find efficacy and fruit, and power and authority and anointing, but there we will find him, and that is what our soul yearns for. That is his heart and desire for each of us. I remember a couple years ago, this particular day, I was driving and needed to go somewhere decently far and this was the day that I told myself the night before, I'll get gas in the morning.
And now we all know the chaos that that lie brings into our lives. I said, "I'll get gas in the morning." I wake up in the morning, and of course, everything that could go wrong goes wrong. My timeline is all jacked up. I'm going to be late. And the problem with me is that I'm a Costco girl through and through. I'm not going to Texaco, I'm not going to Qt, I'm not going to Buc-ee's. Whatever gas station it is, I'm not going unless it's Costco because Costco's about 50 cents cheaper with gas and your girl is a coupon type of girl, so I'm going wherever it's the cheapest, and I don't care if I get stranded on the way to get there.
But I remember on this particular day, my gas tank, I was already at E and my car was showing me that I had five miles left to E. Sometimes we don't really know exactly what that means and I was willing to gamble on this particular day because Costco was 20 minutes away. I have full faith that I can make it. And so I start driving on the highway and the number on my dashboard went from five miles left to E to four miles left to E. I started praying and speaking in tongues. I said, "God, don't let me get stranded out here. Please, I am your child. No good thing do you withhold from me." I started quoting scripture right on back to him. And then it said three miles left to E, realizing my prayers are not going to stop this number from dropping.
And then it said two miles left to E, and then it said one mile left to E. And then before I know it when I was about 15 minutes out, it said dash, dash. And when it starts to say dash, dash, that means, oh, you are out of luck. You are done, you're done with. And most cars, we don't always know when you hit E for real how much longer you have. Every car is so different. I feel like some people have greater capacity within their tanks to where it hits E and they've got about 20 miles. Some people their car is going to stop immediately after. And so I'm just praying, I'm like, "Lord, please let this car keep going." It starts slowing down a little bit. It starts jolting a little bit and I'm like, "Oh Lord, am I going to make it?"
And I remember when I purchased this car, it was a sudden moment that the Holy Spirit brought to mind. When I purchased this car, I remember the dealer telling me that almost every car has a reservoir of gasoline that it can tap into once it hits empty. But he said, "Your car in particular can go in additional 50 miles after it hits empty." And I remember this as I was driving and it was like the Holy Spirit spoke so clearly to me and he said, "Yeah, that's it, Gloria." That's exactly how it is in our walk with Christ. It is only when we hit E, when we hit empty that we have access to that supernatural reservoir of the spirit of God. And I think sometimes we feel as though we can access this reservoir of his spirit when we puff ourselves up and when we feel as though, "I got this, I can do everything. I'm going to run in all of the ambition that I have," but we see in scripture it is, "I will become less, I will decrease so that you can increase."
And I feel as though God's heart and desire is for us to hit empty, for us to hit E so that we would no longer continue trying to strive in our own strength, in our own power, our own intellect, our own will, but we would come to the lowest state within ourselves. We would hit this empty state and we say, "God, now it is you that I need. It is your spirit that I want to tap into. It is your power, your strength that I need to go any further." And when we hit that low state, that's when we can access that supernatural reservoir of his spirit that changes everything. And if you know anyone that works in the oil industry, they'll tell you that oil is never found on the surface. It's only found deep down, and I feel it is the same exact way with the presence of God, the spirit of God.
We find him when we commit to digging deep wells, when we commit to continually digging deeper and tearing in the presence of God, even when it feels uncomfortable, even when it feels like we're not hearing anything back, when we commit to a lifestyle that is dependent on him, not me. My sufficiency comes not from me, but from Christ alone. That is when we will begin to see a true vibrant relationship with the Father, and that is when we will see power that is bestowed upon us to walk in efficacy within our assignments. That's all I have for you guys today.
Kaley:
My gosh, Gloria. That's all?
Meredith:
Oh, yeah. I am here to tell you this is exactly what I needed to hear today. I mean truly I want you to know, yesterday I've been studying... I've been reading through Joel Muddamalle's book, Hidden Peace, and I'm getting ready to lead a little girl group in our Proverbs 31 Book Club on it. And the Lord has really had me in a season of dependency of just coming to the end of myself in terms of, I don't have the best ideas and I don't have the answers. Here I am, the CEO of Proverbs 31 Ministries, and I find myself on a daily basis struggling with the pressure of I'm supposed to be the one with the answers and realizing I do not have them. I literally don't have them to give right now. And so I would love for you to unpack a little bit. And honestly, this is for my own good, okay? Nobody else has to listen to this. This is for me, but I struggle so deeply with, I know in my mind that exactly what you just said that I love... I wrote this down.
You said, our job is to bear fruit and false fruit is void of the spirit, which is evil, right? And as you were talking about that, I wrote down fruit takes time and dependency on the vine, it takes that dependency, but so many times, dependency feels really and even looks really, really irresponsible and reckless. And unpack with me what that has looked like in your life, what you have seen in scripture to process that, because the emotional, you can know in your mind, scripture says this, but then when you're in one of those seasons, the processing of what you're going through, the weight, the responsibility, the judgment of others, what do you do with all of that when you're saying, "Lord, I am choosing to depend fully on you," what does that look like for you and what does it look like in scripture?
Gloria:
That's such a great question, and I feel like something that there's probably not one answer to that because so dynamic depending on what season you're in, where you are in life, what capacity you're even leading in, and I think that's something I struggle with often. I am pretty young and I am leading an organization, and it is quite literally above me. I mean, this is beyond my capacity. This is beyond what I know how to do. This is beyond my bandwidth, and I'm consistently asking God, "Why did you pick me, honestly? Why did you pick me? You could have picked anybody else." And I remember praying that one day and he consistently has been speaking this phrase to me of just the reality that it's not my strength that will help me reach the capacity that's needed to produce this fruit. It's going to be my surrender.
And so it's in my weakness, and I think we quote that scripture often, "In my weakness, you are made strong." But just coming to this understanding of what does that actually look like? What does that day-to-day practically play out to be? And I'm consistently seeing all throughout scripture, individuals who are called to do something beyond themselves where they don't have the power, the strength, the intellect, they don't have it to pull this off. And there is this level of awareness, firstly of, "God, I don't have this." And that awareness is also humility because it invites the spirit of God to be who the spirit of God is in the story. I think when I read John 15, the vine and the branches, I think sometimes we try to play the branch and we forget we're just vines. It is the gardener who is there to ensure that every single branch that does not bear fruit will be cut off.
And so I think having to remember when I invite myself into this state of humility, that gives me the ability to relinquish the pressure to try to be the gardener, to try to be the vine, but to trust that the vine dresser is going to continue pruning me day in and day out. And as he is pruning me, he's preparing me to produce fruit. I don't have to carry the weight of producing fruit on my own. I don't have to carry the pressure and the mental striving that comes with having to produce fruit on my own. I don't know if you've ever tried that before, but it is exhausting. It is overwhelming and it is not sustainable, and I think the enemy will try to trick many of us into playing the wrong part because when we play the wrong part, we put pressure on ourselves to produce in ways that we were never designed to produce.
Meredith:
That's right.
Gloria:
And so I think something that has just helped me is understanding the difference between pressure and weight. I talk about this with my team all the time. Pressure is designed to crush you and weight is designed to be carried. When you recognize what you carry, you recognize that firstly, it's not mine. I am stewarding this. And because God has entrusted me to steward this, he will entrust me with the wisdom that's needed to carry it out. And I think about the parable of the bags of gold very often. There are three individuals that are given X amount of bags of gold, and it's so funny because in the end, the master comes back and says, "Tell me what did you do?" And the first two that doubled their bags of gold, they say, verbatim, "You entrusted me."
And the one who actually didn't steward that bag of gold and actually flopped it and buried it under the ground, his response, he says, "I was afraid." He doesn't even recognize that he was entrusted. So I think when we recognize that we have been entrusted, we trust and know that in that what God has placed in my hands, he will equip me with the wisdom, the resources, the energy, the intellect, the power, the will, the strength to carry this out, and that releases me from the mental striving of having to figure this out.
Meredith:
That's so good.
Gloria:
The master knows who he selected. He knows 30-year-old Gloria cannot pull this off in her own strength, that he also knew that Gloria would be someone trustworthy to carry this. And so I think just reminding yourself of the beauty of the seven point whatever billion people on the planet there are, God looked at me and said, "Yeah, her."
Meredith:
Yeah. That's so good, Gloria. I love too, I'm just looking back at my notes here and you were talking, just recognizing, okay, he's placed an assignment on each one of us, but I love you said the goal is not the assignment, he is. And when we get that flip-flopped when we are trying to be like, "Okay, bear fruit. I'm going to bear fruit."
Gloria:
Like it's a magic trick.
Meredith:
Yeah. That fruit is not his fruit, it's yours. And as going back to what you said, it then is false fruit and is evil, and so it's like it is the struggle. It's very cyclical of like, "Okay, God gave me this assignment, so I need to run out and I need to make it happen." But then you put that pressure on you, not the weight, you are not stewarding, and then it crushes you if you're trying to bear that fruit on your own, and then the fruit itself is empty false fruit anyway. And so gosh, I needed to hear this today.
Kaley:
I did too.
Gloria:
Amen.
Kaley:
[inaudible 00:37:15]. It's great. But I mean, Meredith, I'm glad that you asked the question about fruits because that was one of the things that drew me in the most too. And I want to piggyback off that question, but give Gloria an opportunity to get a little bit more practical because one, the word fruit can be very Christiany. And we're like, "Okay, what does fruit mean?" But Gloria, I'm so glad that you gave the example of weights that are crushing versus weights that you're carrying. And so my question for you, and I mean Meredith, you could even chime in too. We can all talk about this, but we've all recognized this is not something I'm supposed to be doing right now.
We've gotten to the point, and usually you don't recognize it before you're doing it. You recognize it while it is crushing you. But for our listeners who are maybe feeling crushed right now, or maybe it's just a heavy weight, how do they tell the difference because both things are heavy? But Gloria, when you have been carrying a weight that is crushing you, what has that felt like? How did you recognize that it wasn't something that you were supposed to be doing?
Gloria:
Yeah, honestly, I pray a dangerous prayer. And the prayer is, "God, if this is not of you, please let it crumble and collapse." And it is scary to pray that prayer at times because you don't really, no one wants to pray for failure. No one wants to pray for failure, but if it is not God's heart, Lord, let it fail. Let it fail tremendously. And so I think having the humility to pray that prayer, because we can try to do all of this mental striving to determine if this is where we're supposed to be, is this fruit of you, Lord. And if we're trying to figure that out on our own, we might not ever come to the conclusion, and I think that's why the presence of God is important. We serve a God who speaks back to us. That is the difference between our God and every other false God, is that he speaks back to us and he desires to speak to us.
And so I think sometimes taking that assessment to the presence of God and giving him room to speak back and say, "Lord, is this something I should be carrying?" And just because it's hard doesn't mean you're not supposed to be carrying it. Just because it's heavy doesn't mean you're not supposed to be carrying it, but I think sometimes it's a matter of the Lord revealing the season. Is this the season to carry what I am carrying right now? Have I been trying to play the wrong part? Am I doing this in my own strength? And I think taking these questions to the Father for him to tell us, because people will try to tell us one thing, and sometimes what people will tell us can be total opposite than what God might reveal to us in scripture in his word. And it might be with good intentions, but not everyone has the relationship you have with the Father.
And so I think just remembering that and then trusting whoever you have discipling you, these people are also critical in your life as well, and can sometimes see your blind spots where you don't even know, you don't even realize you're being crushed. Sometimes I am being crushed by something that I am not supposed to be carrying, and I don't recognize it in the moment, but my closest people, they're like, "Gloria, you are not the same. You are not acting how you're supposed to be," and they call me out. And I think giving people the permission, that's what community is for, giving people the permission to do that gives the ability for you to see God's heart from different vantage points too.
Kaley:
That's great.
Gloria:
And so yeah, I would say seek in petition is probably the best way. I know it sometimes feels very ethereal like, "Oh, you need to pray," but truly in the presence of God is where he reveals his heart to us and his heart for us.
Meredith:
That's so true and so good. I'm sitting here reflecting on the idea of that Christian term fruit, like bearing fruit. And here I am, the oldest one in the room, just turned 43 last week, Gloria.
Kaley: Our matriarch.
Meredith:
The matriarch as I am. And I just wanted to comment on that a little bit for our listeners because I feel like that has been a real journey that the Lord has taken me on and is still taking me on. Okay, guys, because I say this with as much humility as my dark heart can. But when I was younger, I very much equated fruit with productivity, and when I was feeling hyper spiritual, I would say, "Fruit is people coming into the kingdom of God. That's fruit, and that's what I need to be, my whole life needs to be consumed with is the lost world and them coming to know their savior," and all of that is good, and obviously the very last words that Jesus gave to us, the command that he gave to us, but we're also missing a really significant part of scripture, and that is the fruits of the spirit-
Gloria:
Very simple.
Meredith:
... which is peace, patience, joy, kindness, self-control, all of those things. And as I've gotten older, I think I have recognized more and more, and asked and repented honestly of idolizing fruit that our savior never deemed as fruit. He never said that's fruit. He never said more followers, more-
Gloria:
True.
Meredith:
... attention, more people in seats. He never called any of that fruit. He called peace, patience, kindness, self-control, fruit. And the only way, Gloria, to go back to exactly what you said is fruit takes time to grow, and our culture does not value that at all. It puts zero emphasis on it. In fact, it's like, "Let's get everything done as fast as we can," and so as I have gotten older, the old matriarch over here, I have found the fruit of the spirit has grown in me as I have put myself in positions that have completely emptied me of myself.
Gloria: Yeah, that's powerful.
Meredith:
And then just to go back to what you were teaching, Gloria, that's where the Holy Spirit can show up and actually grow those things. I think one of the key things in my life that I would say, gosh, I look at myself in my 20s and zero patience with anyone or anything, guys. I wanted progress now and I was going to make it happen. And as my family has stepped into the world of doing foster care, you all, it has stripped me-
Gloria:
Wow.
Meredith:
... of any control that I had. And I now, I've been doing it four plus years and without even knowing. Mac and I were talking about, we just recently renewed our license to continue to do foster care because we were like, "Oh, this about killed us. Do you want to keep doing this?" And I was like, "Well, what good have we seen?" And I was like, "Holy cow, I can actually see, I am so much more patient than I have ever been," and I would say that is because of walking through what we have walked through in foster care. And you ball, I didn't even see it happening. I didn't even see that fruit growing in my life because I wasn't growing it, the Holy Spirit in and through me was growing-
Gloria:
Come on.
Meredith:
... this patience in me, and now I can say, "Wow, God, thank you." And that had nothing to do with my ambition or my capabilities or my skill.
Gloria:
It probably had a lot to do with pruning too.
Kaley:
Oh, my God, yes.
Meredith:
If God was focusing so much on production, the Bible wouldn't call him a pruner.
Kaley:
Oh, my gosh. Amen.
Meredith:
He wouldn't cut things out.
Kaley:
That was good.
Meredith:
He has cut things that I had absolutely no control over. It was like, "Here, Meredith, let me lob off your arm."
Kaley:
[inaudible 00:45:23].
Meredith:
... and it hurt, man. It hurt and still hurts to this day. It's still hard, but I can see, thank you Lord. Thank you Lord, that you don't leave us where we are, and that in your kindness, you choose to prune us and grow fruit in our lives.
Gloria:
That's great. That's good. I'm even just, I'm reading John 15 again and I'm seeing in verse eight to all of the points that are made here after this beautiful dialogue of, "I'm the vine, you are the branches. Here's how you're going to bear fruit." Verse eight says, "At the end, this is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit showing yourselves to be my disciples." That is where it lands right there. It's the whole point. It's not so that we could say, "Look at all the things we've done. We heard the people in Matthew 7 say all that they've done these great, prestigious, esteemed things," but at the end, the Father was just like, "But I don't know you. I wanted you to become like me," and so this is just a clear indicator of what that fruit is, and it's fruit that will last. And I think that's the beauty of God trying to prune us, to make us more like him, to shape our character, to shape our identity, our being, so that when he looks at us, we mirror Christ. That's the goal, Christ's likeness.
Meredith:
Amen to the glory of the Father, Gloria. I love it. Oh my gosh, it's too good. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Gloria. I could talk for another hour.
Gloria: Thank you for having me.
Meredith:
Yeah, of course. And I want to make sure we get the opportunity to tell our listeners a little bit more about your organization, Hope Booths, and so how they can get involved. Just pitch it to them fast, Gloria, because I think it's awesome, and I want them to know how to get connected.
Gloria: Yes, absolutely. I am obsessed with the Hope Booth. Ways that you can get involved, basically there's a couple of ways. If you happen to be someone who is passionate about making change and making hope and help free and accessible to people, I'd love to invite you to join our monthly donor community. It's called The Movement, and we have a goal over the next two years to install a hundred Hope Booths around the world in a few different languages in prisons, hospitals, schools, street corners, to give people this access to hope 24/7 and connect them to the support that they need. And our goal is to reach about 9.2 million people, and we believe by God's grace, it is possible and can happen, so you can join that community.
And then B, if you happen to know anyone that is connected to any commercial real estate that could host Hope Booth installations, we would love to be connected with them. That's one of our models of how we get Hope Booths out into the world without having to worry about crazy permits and permissions and all of those things, and then help us just spread the word. Those are really great ways that you can partner with us.
Kaley:
I love that. Gloria, I had never really heard about Hope Booths until your assistant. She sent it over to me and I dug into it and I was like, "This is so brilliant and so practical, and such a way to meet people where they are," especially because of how much the mental health crisis has grown-
Meredith: Oh, my gosh.
Kaley:
... in our world, and a way to bring the gospel, a way to be the hands and feet of Jesus.
Gloria: Thank you much.
Kaley:
I just love it so much. So guys, we've linked all of this information for you in the show notes. And don't forget to check out in the show notes, we've also linked some of our favorite episodes from the past six years, because we've been doing this-
Meredith:
For a long time.
Kaley:
... six years.
Meredith:
Six years.
Gloria:
Wow.
Meredith:
That's crazy people.
Kaley:
Amazing.
Meredith:
Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for tuning in. That is it for us today. At Proverbs 31 Ministries, we help you know the truth and live the truth because we believe it really will change everything for you.