The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

If you have an interest in mountain hunting, you need to listen to this podcast. Jeff Agostinho is a knowledgeable and passionate hunter as well as the first regional representative with the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance.

Jeff provides insight into what the RMGA does and paints a picture of joys and realities on mountain hunting. Jeff outlines exactly how he prepares for a hunt, how he keeps his pack weight to a minimum and he provides a comprehensive list of every item he brings in his pack.

To learn more about the RMGA check out their website here: https://goatalliance.org

To learn more about Jeff, follow him on Instagram: Instagram @jeffagostinho https://www.instagram.com/jeffagostinho/

Learn More about Silvercore

1:00 - About Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance

09:56 - How to identify goats

15:52 - Alberta goat hunting moratorium

18:28 - Complete A-Z what kit to bring on a mountain hunt

42:40 - Medical kit

43:32 - Food

55:23 - Winter mountain hunt story

1:06:21 - What Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance does and how to get involved

What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

Silvercore Podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

people in businesses that
comprise the community.

If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

you can learn more about
courses, services, and

products that we offer
as well as how you can

join The silvercore Club,
which includes 10 million

in north America wide
liability insurance, to

ensure you are properly
covered during your

outdoor adventures.

Today I'm talking
wild goats with Jeff

Agostinho from the Rocky
Mountain Goat Alliance.

This group is a
grassroots organization

dedicated to enhancing
and conserving North

America's rocky
mountain goats.

Jeff, welcome to The
Silvercore Podcast.

Thanks for having
me on Travis.

Absolutely.

So Rocky Mountain Goat
Alliance, can you tell

me a little bit about
what this organization

does and how you became
involved with them?

So, Rocky Mountain Goat
Alliance started out

in the states in 2013.

It was grassroots
organization focused on

Rocky Mountain Goats,
uh, mainly in Montana

where it had originated.

And then from
there they've grown

over the years.

Uh, the main mission
of Rocky Mountain Goat

Alliance is to work on
habitat, mountain goats

and everything to do
with mountain goats.

Right.

So I've never actually
hunted mountain goats.

I'm trying to think if
I've ever seen a mountain

goat in the wild.

I know I've seen
them in the zoos.

I spend a fair bit
of time out in the

mountains, but just not
in areas where there

are mountain goats.

Um, BC houses, what,
the largest amount of

mountain goats are in
North America, like.

Yes.
50% or more.

Yep.

We have about 50% of
the total mountain

goat population
in North America.

So there's a very big
amount of mountain goats

here and we're kind of,
uh, yeah, we, we have 50%

of the population and the
most of anywhere kind of

else in North America.

So what got you
involved with this.

So I've just been
. Passionate about

conservation over the
last three to four years.

Uh, I've hunted mountain
goats, I'vespent a lot

of time in mountain goat
country, and I really

wanted to bring the Rocky
Mountain Goat Alliance up

into Canada because there
hadn't been a lot of work

previously done here.

So, uh, last year,
the Rocky Mountain

Goat Alliance launched
their regional

representative program,
which I immediately

signed up for.

And then moving into
2021, we started

working on a project
to do with mountain

goats right up here in
the Chilliwack area.

And Rocky Mountain
Goat Alliance jumped

on board with that.

And it's the partnership
has kind of grown from

there and I will be the
first or am the first

regional representative
on for the Rocky

Mountain Goat Alliance.

Very nice.

So, so what, what's
this, what's going

on in Chilliwack?

So to June 25th and 26th,
we did the first Canadian

mountain goat survey.

We had about 46
individuals out to do a

survey of the Chilliwack
River Valley, and then

coming in from the
south side of the Skagit

to count the mountain
goats within that area.

Uh, working hand in
hand with the regional

biologist, just to
achieve a ground

survey count of what
we could see in a

matter of two days.

Gotcha.

So you, you've got
a background in

hunting from what I
understand, you've been

hunting from a pretty
early age and family

background of hunting.

Have you been hunting
in the mountains

very long or?

I did my first mountain
hunt when I was 20.

So what, six years ago
I did a fly in my first

mountain goat or sorry,
first mountain hunting

experience was a fly
in trip in Northern

British Columbia.

Um, and then from there
it just kind of evolved

and I've gotten more and
more into the mountain

hunting aspect and
being in these places

in more remote areas of
British Columbia chasing

certain types of items.

So that first fly in hunt
was that a, uh, that was

a caribou hunt, right?

Yeah.

That was a caribou
hunt in, uh,

yeah, Northwestern
British Columbia.

And we were successful
on day six I believe,

on a caribou, hunting
partners took a caribou

and that was just a big
wake up call for me.

I remember getting back
after seven days to the

lake we'd been dropped
off on no skin left on

my heels, not having the
proper gear, just body

completely destroyed.

And, uh, but I knew
I wanted to get right

back out there as
soon as possible.

You wanted more.

Yeah.

So I haven't done
any mountain hunting.

Not yet.

No.

But, in another month
or so I'll be flying in

and doing my first, uh,
fly in caribou hunt.

Oh that's going
to be awesome.

In a remote northern
area, probably not too

far from where you were.

And I'll be bringing my
12 year old son with me.

So that might be a little
bit of a, a, that's

going to be an adventure.

Yeah.

What's is he done quite
a bit of hunting yet

with you or spent time
with you in the field or?

Uh, in the field?

Yes.

Hunting.

He's been, uh, hunting
for, you got his license

when he was 10 years old.

He harvested his first,
uh, animals last year.

And, uh, at this one
it's going to be a, it's

going to be a mountain
experience and if he's

able to be successful
out there, great.

But otherwise he'll
be, he'll be helping

with other things on
the, on the group.

That'll be awesome.

I'm sure he'll enjoy it.

And you'll have them
hooked from an early age.

Oh.

You know, I think he
was already hooked,

but in all of this, I,
um, I, you don't know

what you don't know.

Right.

And so being the first
mountain and you know,

looking at different
gear, different tents

than I'd use when
I'm mountaineering.

Uh larger tents for,
um, all the kit and

what we're looking to
do, uh, looking at,

uh, uh, of course your
bino's, spotting scopes

are very important.

Uh, I should imagine
when you're, uh, you're

talking about the, the
mountain goats, having a

very good spotting scope
would be just a crucial

piece of equipment.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think anytime you're
hunting, especially

mountain goats, or
any mountain species,

mountain goats in
particular, just because

of the identification
factor, having that

spotting scope is vital
to being successful in

taking the right animal.

So I watched a really
good video that you guys

put out and it had Steve
Rinella narrating it.

Yeah.
That was pretty cool.

Yeah.

How, how old
is that video?

That video I believe
is six years old.

Okay.

Off the top of my head.

And it was talking about
identifying the gender

or sexing mountain
goats and how they tell

the difference, the
difference between a

billy and a nanny and
cause they, they're both

going to have horns.

And it also talked about
the impact of making

an improper harvest,
which I thought was

pretty interesting.

It says, if I
remember correctly,

it was, it spanned
a five-year period.

And it says, if you, uh,
if you take a billy, uh,

in five years, here's
what the population

is going to look like.

If you take a nanny and
these, these mountain

goat populations,
they're not huge.

Nope.

You take a nanny
at essentially.

Will cut that
population by about 50%.

Yeah.

That's, the way that
the video shows it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, just down the
line and over that,

those amount of years,
um, by taking that

nanny, the amount
of kids that you're

reducing over however
many years does have a

big effect on a herd.

So if you started caribou
hunting and then he

said, Hey, I want it was
the next one, another

caribou, or were you
into sheep or goats?

Well, how did the
progression work?

It went caribou, caribou,
and then actually, no,

I did do a goat hunt.

After that caribou hunt,
I did a Southeastern

BC mountain goat hunt.

Um, in an area we
had never been into.

A couple of friends,
drew a tag, and we had

never, one of my friends
had taken a goat, but

two of us had never,
never even hunted goats.

Just wanted to go
and experience this.

So we made a run at it.

And we spent four
days just trying to

break through treeline
in different areas.

And it was a
nightmare, but, um,

yeah, it was awesome.

We saw a couple of
goats, nothing we wanted

to take or nothing we
could even really get

close enough to take.

Right.

Uh, but a big learning
curve just on the country

that those mountain
goats live in and the

kind of areas that
they tend to frequent

and how hard it is
sometimes to access them.

No kidding.

So for me, if you're
to say Trav, look it,

I know you've never
hunted goats before.

Here's the 1 0 1.

What would you say
is most important?

What would you, what
would you pack and

what would you prepare
with like, uh, any

research that you
do ahead of time?

So, I mean, I think the
most important thing,

just going back to what
we were just talking

about when you're
planning a mountain goat

hunt, the first thing you
need to do is watch that

Rocky Mount Goat Alliance
video on identifying

and sexing goats.

Right.

You need to become
comfortable.

You need to go on
whatever it's Instagram,

the internet, or
whatever it may be,

and get comfortable
with identifying a

billy versus a nanny.

I think that's the most
important thing that you

need to do when preparing
for a mountain goat hunt.

Above area, above gear
above anything else.

It's the
identification factor.

Well said.

Yeah, that's going
to be the first.

From there, getting
your gear in line.

And we're pretty
fortunate here in

British Columbia.

We can hunt goats
from August 1st in

some areas right out
to February 28th.

Right.

So it's kind of
going to depend on

what you want to do.

I'm not going to
recommend anyone.

Who's never hunted
goats before to go out

and try and attempt
a late February

mountain goat hunt.

I've been there.

It's not somewhere
you want to start.

Um, but generally
it's going to be that

mid September, early
September hunts that

guys are preparing for.

And it's generally
pretty similar to most

mountain hunts that
you're going to want to

do, or that most guys are
doing in terms of gear.

Uh, the one thing to keep
in mind is that mountain

goats do live in very,
very steep terrain.

So it's a matter of
getting comfortable with

being in that kind of
country at times as well.

And one of the other
factors that a lot of

people don't consider
when they are hunting

mountain goats or
planning to hunt mountain

goats is whether or
not you're going to

be able to, if you
do take an animal,

retrieve that animal,
it's a lot to think

about at the same time.

Totally.

Yeah.

So one of the biggest
things in the field

is when you're looking
at these goats you've

identified a Billy and
you want to take it

is can I get to him.

Mhmm.

And I've been in
situations where we

definitely just could
not get to that goat.

Like there was no way
we could safely retrieve

that goat without maybe
having a helicopter, or

full out climbing gear.

Right.

It just wasn't
going to happen.

So, um, that's another
big factor when

you're hunting these
hunting mountain.

So we're talking about
identification, not

everybody who's listening
to this is going to go

online and look at the
video and go through it.

Anybody who is going
to be hunting mountain

goats absolutely should
be looking at that

and doing their own
research on identifying

the sex of them.

What tips would you give
to somebody listening

to this on how to
properly identify and

sex these mountain goats?

So the there's two
very, in my opinion,

big giveaways, the
first being the horns.

Generally believes
are going to be a lot

thicker at the bases
that are going to carry

that weight throughout.

And then there's
the curvature.

The billy's tend to
have a lot more of

a gradual curve to
their horns where

nannies tend to have
the curve at the top.

And it almost creates
a little bit of a kink,

like look at the top
of a nanny's horns.

Right.

That isn't ,so it
isn't so gradual.

The other big thing
that most guys should

know or wait for, if you
can't identify them by

the horns, is this how
they go pee pretty much.

Right, okay.

Yeah.

So a nanny will squat
and a billy will stretch.

That's a dead giveaway
right there, is which

way, how they go when
they go to the bathroom.

That's a good one.

Yeah.

So if you can't
get it to sit there

and wait and wait.

Exactly.

Well, hope they're
well-hydrated.

Yeah exactly.

And I think with most
mountain species,

generally three to four
hours, you're seeing

them get up at least
once to stretch or

go to the washroom or
do whatever they got

to do their business.

So if you don't know,
just wait, be patient.

So what, what does the,
the goat population

look like here in
British Columbia?

Is it pretty healthy?

W, our populations
currently very healthy

for mountain goats.

Like I said, we've got
50% of the mountain goats

and they're spread out
throughout pretty much

our entire province.

We've got goats, like
I said, right here in

Chilliwack, uh, up in,
through Harrison, in

Squamish and all the
way outside of that,

right through region 3,
4, 5, 6, 7, and eight,

all old mountain goats.

We've got them on
the coastal inlets on

the west end there.

Right.

The only place
that we don't have

mountain goats is on
Vancouver island so.

Right.

Yeah.

So what are some of
the biggest threats to

the goat populations?

So we've, it's, it's
an interesting question

because we've been
trying to identify a

little bit of it just
with Chilliwack and

a couple of areas.

I think personally,
one of the biggest

threats that we're
seeing to mountain

goats today in a lot of
areas is recreational

and non-consumptive
recreation in terms

of hikers, mountain
biking, ATV, and all

that type of stuff.

Um, there's, there's
a few others.

Predation is a
bit of a factor.

Uh, one of the things
you can go on YouTube

and see is, uh, eagles
trying to knock off

kids off cliffs.

I've seen that.

Yeah.

So a lot of people don't
believe that until they

go and search the video,
but it's a real thing.

And it's a real threat
to, you know, kids

or goats on some of
those steep spots.

Um, but I think
recreation in certain

areas is a big threat
and potentially disease.

I know that there has
been a little bit of

disease identified
outside of BC I believe

it was, a few years
back, in mountain goats.

Um, it hasn't come up
big yet as a threat, but

it could down the road
become something that we

definitely need to start
paying attention to.

So non-consumptive
users, that's looking

like one of the, the
larger threats to the,

the mountain goats.

Yes, exactly.

It's not something
most people would

think about, but.

No.

Um, how many people are
hiking into the Alpine

all the time or doing
that kind of stuff, or,

I mean, there's a lot
of areas where you can

snowmobile or you can
take an ATV or you can

drive a vehicle right
up into the Alpine.

We've got lots areas
here in British

Columbia where you can
take a 4x4 vehicle.

And there's certain
groups that go up into

these Alpine areas
that do have mountain

goats and having these
roads and everything

in them definitely
doesn't have any sort of

positive effect on them.

Right.

So it's just
stressing them out or?

Exactly.

Pushing them further?

Pushing them further
or pushing them

into certain areas.

I don't know if it causes
any, w we don't know

yet if it causes any
sort of, um, issue with

breeding and, uh, that
aspect of it, it may or

may not, that pressure.

Um, but yeah, it's
caused them to go into

certain areas that
they're not normally in.

And we saw that in the
Chilliwack area, when

people are hiking the
top peaks and people

are snowmobiling in
the Alpine and their

winter range and
all that as well.

Do you ever find there's
much uh, mountain

goat, human conflict.

So there's there
definitely,

really can be.

I mean, we've seen, I
believe it was in, uh,

down in Washington, there
was a situation where

a person was actually
gored by a mountain goat.

Wow.

Yeah.

So I mean, that's, that's
a pretty extreme example.

Um, but it,
it did happen.

And in BC right now,
they're doing some work.

Uh, Laura Balex I
don't know if you've

heard of her before.

She's doing some work
in cathedral, um, down

in region eight there
where they're kind of

looking into that in
terms of the human goat

conflict and what that,
uh, what that does to

the mountain goats,
because there definitely

is a big factor of that.

I know, I heard a mention
of, um, the goats were

attracted to, like
they were using human

urine to attract goats.

They were coming
right into it for I

guess I would assume
it was for the salt.

I've heard that.

Yeah.

So when you think
about that, that's

pretty crazy.

There's provincial parks
in there, there's rec

sites and mountain goats
are coming in there.

It's, it's definitely
an cause some pressure,

puts some pressure
on them with that and

that's direct human goat
conflict right there.

Interesting.

I do think people tend
to want to dry and get

too close and maybe try
and take pictures with

their phones, which puts
a bit of pressure on the

mountain goats and tends
to push them into areas

maybe they're not so
comfortable in being in.

Especially when you're
talking, a lot of people

are doing hikes at
this time of year when

kids are pretty fresh,
they're just getting

their legs under them.

Right.

So if you put pressure
on or herd of goats

that contains 2, 3,
4 kids, and all of a

sudden they're moving
off into a steeper

area or a cliff band
or something like that,

those kids might not
have all their footing

and feet under them.

There's a chance that
one of them could

take a fall and they
won't survive that.

Yeah.

You know, when I, when
I take a look at, uh,

Alberta, there's no
goat hunting this year.

Yeah.

So that's been an
interesting one

that we've kind
of been discussing

over the last month.

And Darren Epp has
been big on that and

he's trying to get some
answers on what it is.

And we've got a
few, we've got some

communication with the
local biologist, um,

on what's causing it.

And generally, uh,
for a populate for

us, sustainable
harvest, you need 50

goats within an area.

That's generally
the average.

And that's the, what
the biologist is kind

of stated to Darren
and those numbers have

been on the decline.

And one of the big
things, again, going back

to identifying the right
goat to take, uh, was an

over harvest of nannies a
little while back before

Alberta brought in the
mandatory course before

you do your goat hunt.

Right.

So, BC doesn't have
that currently where

you have to take some
sort of mandatory course

or education program.

I should think it
should be coming.

Yeah.
Hopefully.

Yes.

But Alberta has now
brought that in, but

prior to that, there was
high levels of nannie

harvest in Alberta,
which obviously has

caused that effect on the
herds, um, down through

there as well as the
recreational pressure.

And they're investigating
as to what else could

be causing the numbers
to be on the decline.

So when you say 50
goats in an area,

how big of an area
are we talking about?

From what Iunderstand
every area's

totally different.

It depends on the range,
depends on multiple

different factors.

What the carrying
capacity could be

within a specific range.

So it's, it's hard to
say, you know, it's

20 kilometers, square
kilometers with 30

square kilometers.

Every area is
totally different.

Right makes sense.

Yeah.

So it's hard to
identify an exact size.

When you go out on your
hunts, how much time are

you typically dedicating.

Every hunt's a
little bit different.

I did a mountain
goat hunt in 2019

where we dedicated
four days and we got

it done on day one.

But we were going into an
area where I had a decent

amount of information
and I was able to go

online and kind of pick
out the spots I figured

goats would be living in.

And the day before
season, we found two

billys and we took the
billy on opening day.

So, but generally it's
going to depend on how

far I'm going at, where
I'm going, but I'd like

to say seven to 10 days
is the ideal amount of

time when we've done
our winter hunts, we

planned for eight to
nine, just because of

travel and getting into
these valleys can also

be pretty difficult.

So that got account
a day on either end

of that, at least.

So if we're doing
nine days, it gets a

seven days to hunt.

Once we're actually
into the valley or

wherever we're going.

But generally that seven
to 10 day period is

what we like to be in.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Yeah.

So we kind of glossed
over one of the pieces

of information that I
think a lot of people

listening to this would
really want to know,

and that would be kit.

What kind of kit would
you recommend that

somebody start looking
at if they wanted to get

into mountain hunting?

Yeah, that's, that's
definitely something

that, uh, a lot of people
ask and they're always

kind of wondering is
what kind of gear to do

and, you know, it can, it
can be very overwhelming

once you start looking at
the market, the hunting

market and looking into
the industry and what to

kind of start with right.

Um, the first thing that
anybody, I always talk

to people about, and the
first question that I

like to answer is boots.

I think your boot
selection is huge.

A lot of guys tend to
want to just kind of

walk to the Cabela's or
to the Bass Pro where

they're carrying kind
of their regular boots

and think that that's
going to be good enough.

If you're getting
into mountain hunting,

especially with goat
hunting, you're going to

want, I know personally,
I like having a stiff

mountaineering boot cause
you're in some of those

conditions, but having
a good boot and uh, you

know, it, it depends
on your budget, but uh,

like I like Scarpa's
personally I wear.

They're nice yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Super stiff, a
lot of support.

Uh, and synthetic, I
like having a synthetic

boot personally.

Um, there's some good
leather boots too,

depending on kind of
personal preference, but

picking a good boot that
fits you well, you've

spent some time in and
it's going to be capable

in those situations.

The, the general boot
that you would buy at

Cabela's or whatever,
like that is probably

not going to cut it.

And those kinds of
mountain hunting

conditions, uh, based on
my personal experience,.

My first ever mountain
hunting trip, I wore a

pair of Irish setter elk
trackers that were not

cut for carrying a pack.

Yeah.

Like they, you know,
great boots for when

I'm hanging out with my
duck blind or something.

I want to stay warm.

Right.

But on a mountain hunt
when you've got 75,

80, 90 pounds in your
pack, they just do

not cut it and they
destroyed my feet.

Maybe they work for some
guys, but not for me.

So when I talk to
guys, definitely going

to be wanting to look
at a lot of those

Italian made boots, I
recommend, uh, let's see.

Sportiva.

La Sportiva, Scarpa's.

Meindl.

Meindl's, I've had a pair
of Meindl's personally.

A lot of guys are really
liking the Crispi's.

Okay.

A lot of guys swear by
them, Hanwag's, those

kinds of boots are the
ones you're going to

want to be looking at
and trying them on.

And one of the things
that I've always said to

people was try on as many
different as you can.

Um, look for somewhere
where you can, if you're

ordering online or you're
in an area where you

don't have that ton of
selection, you can't

go to the store and
pick up these boots.

You don't have a MEC
or an Atmosphere or

something like that.

Find an online site
where you can return

and order multiple
different pairs of boots.

Try them all on, and
then returns the ones

that don't work, like.

What's your thought
on boot break in?

I think it's pretty
boot dependent.

So my Meindl's for
example, I spent a

lot of time trying
to break those boots

in, a lot of time.

My Scarpa's, I stepped
into them and they work.

Right.

I think it's very
dependent on your

foot and it's very
dependent on the boot.

Uh, the Crispi's
have this guarantee I

believe, that there's
no break in period.

And everyone I've talked
to has, uh, never had to

have a break and paired
with their Crispi's.

They've stepped into
them and they were

hiking and they've
never had an issue.

So, you know, maybe
there's something there,

but for me, Scarpa's,
I'd never had a break

in period with mine.

They've been great and
I've been using them for

almost three years now.

You know, talking
to other people.

And there's the
growing consensus of,

if you have to break
your boots in, get

another pair of boots.

Yeah.

Either fit the insoul
fit, fit it so that

you, your heel is in
the middle cup, in

the pocket of the back
properly, and things

are laced up properly.

And if you can't, through
all of that, finding

another pair of boots.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

I've never
heard that, but.

Yeah.

Good point.

You know, and it's, I
started adopting that

school of thought in
my boot selection.

And like you, I had a
pair of Meindl's and

there was a long break
in period to get those

things where I wanted.

And they were heavy.

I don't know if it
was just the ones that

I had, but they were
Alpine boot, rather

heavy compared to some
of the synthetics.

And, uh, but you know, I
guess what, and one thing

I find with the boots,
some people say, oh, you

got to get Meindl, or
you got to get Scarpa.

Yeah, maybe for you,
maybe it works great

with your feet, but.

Super personal.

Totally.

Yeah.

Super personal.

Um, and then even
with boots is, know

your application.

I think for me with
like the winter

goat hunts, like we
talked about, that is

something that I have
to take into account.

So I wanted something
that was going to

be fully compatible
for a crampon.

Right.

So know your application,
know where you're

going to be using them.

And if you need those
types of things, making

sure you're looking
for the right pair

of boots for that.

I was with a friend
this past weekend, who's

doing his first ever
winter goat hunt ordered

a new pair of boots.

And I went and looked
at them and you can

make crampons work for
them, but they're not

the most ideal, like
a full step in boot

for crampons is what
you're going to want.

Like, so just know your
application and where

are you going to be
using them and kind of

go from there and select
from there, that's going

to narrow you down.

Moving forward from
that is going to be,

we'll go into packs.

Packs again, I find
are super personal.

I've ran a few
different packs.

Um, and again, try
them all on, try on

as many different
packs as you can.

The market, you know,
there's Kuiu, Kifaru,

Mystery Ranch, uh,
Stone Glacier, um,

Eberlestock, uh, I
mean, how many different

pack brands on there?

There's tons, try on
as many different packs

as you possibly can
because it's going to

be as personal as boots.

Make sure you get
fitted for them right.

Either, whether you're
searching the online

YouTube videos, because
every brand has a fitting

video that you can watch,
or you are with someone

who's fitting it for you.

Just make sure you're
putting that on right,

before you're 50
pounds on it, and see

how it fits your back
because not every pack

is going to work for
every single person.

And if anyone ever
tells you that, they're

probably lying to you
because everyone's back

is totally different.

Everyone's ability to
carry weight a certain

way is totally different.

I've I've seen, I've
found, make sure

you find the one
that's right for you.

Um.

What are you running
right now for a pack?

Right now I'm running,
I just stopped, I was

running a Kuiu before,
um, and I wanted to

try something new.

So I'm currently
running a Kifaru.

Okay.

So I just made
that switch.

Um, the, both
are good packs.

Kuiu's a lighter pack.

Kifaru's a bit of
a heavier pack.

Built a little bit,
it's a little bit of

a, it's built a little
bit to be a tougher

pack, a bit heavier.

Um, but putting weight
in it's been great.

Um, I personally like
to run a bigger pack.

So guys are like, oh,
do you run two packs?

Cause you have a day
pack and you're like

expedition pack.

And I'm like, nope, I've
always chosen packs that

I'm able to cinch down
pretty tight so that

if I want to use them
for a day trip, I can.

And then if I want to
blow them up and use them

for a full 10 day trip,
I can do that as well.

So I'm not limited
in that sense uh.

So what size are you
running right now?

So the Kifaru right now,
I have it set up to run

up to 9,000 cubic inches.

That's a good size pack.

Yeah.

So the one thing to
remember with your pack

is just because you
have that space, don't

always try and fill it.

Right.

Yeah.

So personally I have
enough experience and

I've done enough that I
know what I need and what

I don't need, so I can
cut out certain things.

And I feel comfortable
with having that extra

space where I've talked
to a lot of guys that

build a pack like that
that's that big, or

even a 7,500 or an
8,000 cubic inch pack.

And they're trying to do
what they can to fill it.

And I'm like, okay,
now put it on your back

and see how that feels.

Right.
Right.

Don't forget, you're
going to be packing

some meat out, hopefully
at some point too.

Exactly.

When you get up to 120,
130 pound pack, I've

done it a few times now.

It's like, it doesn't
matter what kind of pack.

It's going to suck.

It's just going to suck.

So, you know, don't add
extra stuff you don't

need just because you
have that extra space.

It's, in the long
run, it's not

going to help you.

So that's packs,
again, super personal.

Um, moving into clothing
again, there's a lot

of different options,
whether you want to

stay in gear from in the
hunting space or there's

lots of brands outside
of the hunting space that

are going to cut it too.

It's going to
depend on budget.

The one thing that I
recommend everybody

has is your rain gear.

If you're hunting
in British Columbia,

whatever type of mountain
hunt you do have rain

gear in your back pack.

Like I don't care if it's
August 1st, I don't care

if it's September 1st,
I just, you need to have

rain gear in my opinion.

Um, because that can end
a trip pretty quick when

you get a freak storm.

Are you going to
waterproof, breathable

or full, full waterproof?

Even Gore-Tex or?

Yeah, so I, I personally
run Kuiu, that there,

they work with a little
bit different, um,

materials, but it's a
level of breathability.

But I think one thing
with rain gear that

you need to remember
is if rain gear is

breathable, there's an
element of water that

can also get in, has
always been my opinion.

Um, and I could, I'm not
a super material or gear

freak, but, um, yeah, I
mean the best rain gear

is stuff that generally
isn't that breathable.

You start talking about
Helly Hansen rubber

stuff, it's the best
rain gear and it's

not breathable at all.

So you want that kind of
in-between generally when

it starts raining as a
hunter, you're trying to

get out of it anyways.

It's not like you're
thriving in it,

some guys do, and
to each their own.

Um, but I think it's
a matter of finding

something that is
a bit breathable is

relatively lightweight.

Cause you're going
to be backpacking.

Uh, and you know,
you stay dry in

for the most part.

Um, I think if you're,
you know, I've got

friends that are
horseback guides and

all that type of stuff,
when you're beaten your

rain gear every single
day, riding horses,

breaking through bush,
eventually certain things

are gonna soak through.

Um, but it's finding
stuff that's going to

hold up the longest.

I think so, um, yeah with
that being said, I've

had, like I said, I run
the Kuiu gear and I've

had no problem with it.

Moving in from that,
uh, is your insulation.

I am a big fan of
down insulation.

Uh, one of my friends
said it to me last year

and it was really good
way to think about it

when it came to rain
gear and you're in

your down gear is in
an emergency situation,

it's your sleeping
bag and your tent.

You know, you get
caught up on the side

of the mountain and you
have your down puffy,

your down pants, your
rain pants and your

rain jacket, you know,
it's not going to be

comfortable, but you're
going to survive because

you have that all on you.

If you can't get to
your tent at night.

So it's definitely
something to think about

and something that I'd
tell everybody have some

down in your pack when
you're doing any of these

backpack hunts, because
storms coming quick,

or even just sitting
down and glassing.

Like a lot of guys
don't sit down in glass

because they don't
have the ability to get

comfortable and do it,
whether it's, you know,

putting on their down
to stay out of a wind

or to block that from
the wind or just to stay

warm, they just, they
don't think about that.

And then all of a sudden
they're trying to cover

ground and they're
trying to warm themselves

up by hiking more.

And we're walking right
past country that there's

animals in because they
didn't have the proper

gear to allow them to do
what they needed to do.

Good point.

Yeah.

So down rain gear and
then your base layers,

and everyone's going to
be totally different.

For me, um,
I'm all merino.

If I'm doing any sort
of extended trip, we're

in the mountains, we all
smell like, there's just.

Sure.

There's no way
around it right?

So like all my base is
socks, always merino.

That's my go-to some
guys like synthetics

and to each their own,
but that's just how

I've always been, uh,
is going full merino.

You've a favourite
brand for socks?

Uh Smartwool.

You like Smartwool eh?

Yeah.

Yeah, I run Smartwool uh,
depending on the time of

year I'll run Smartwool,
like they have the heavy

over the calf ones.

Those are my go-to
for like late

season winter stuff.

I've always got those on.

I might have to
check them out.

I've always been
Darn Tough and I

just love Darn Tough.

Yeah.

I've, I've heard a
lot of good things.

I've just, I've never
had an issue with

my Smartwool socks.

So why change?

Why change.

Yeah.
Yeah.

That's just
my, my opinion.

I have a Smartwool 200
Merino top that I wear,

like when I'm exercising
here or going for runs

in the winter, I just,
I love that thing.

It's super comfortable,
super warm.

It's uh, it's been, yeah.

Uh, moving on from that,
like, that's going to be

your clothing part um.

How many, how many
pairs of socks would

you be taken for, let's
say a seven day hunt?

Two.

Two?

Yeah, that's it.

Okay.

Yeah, that's all I take
and I I'll take two, and

I mean, like I said, one
of the things that you

need to be comfortable
with is the fact that

you're going to smell.

Like to a degree,
your stuff is going

to get sweated up.

Don't add a bunch
of extra weight.

Don't take seven pairs
of socks for seven days.

Cause it's,
you're just adding

unnecessary weight.

Take those merino, wash
them out in a creek, do

what you can to keep them
as clean as possible.

Um, this past year on
my goat hunt, I took

two pairs of socks
for nine days and

they were constantly
like, just cause

everything was so wet.

And even like, you take
your boots off at night

and just condensation,
everything's building

up in your boots.

So you put your socks
on and it gets, or your,

you put your boots and
your socks get wet.

So what I was doing
is I would, um, I

take my socks, I'd
switch them every day.

I had Platypus soft
bottles that I would

boil water and I put the
portable soft bottles

inside my socks, which
then I'd put inside.

I always, for the winter
hunts take a pair of

synthetic booties,
like just to have

all my feet at night.

Yep.

I'd put the socks
in the boiled

water inside those.

And then I'd put those
at the bottom of my

synthetic sleeping
bag and it would

dry everything right
out, because the

part of my sleeping
bag was always wet.

So that heat from
inside mixed with the

synthetic properties
would consistently

dry out my socks.

So I'd always have a
pair of dry socks, first

thing in the morning.

Cause I mean, that's just
a mental thing right.

Having wet socks
is always tough.

Totally.

Yeah.

So just making sure that,
but yeah, two socks is

always my go-to and like
I said, wash them out in

a creek or do something
like that if you need to,

just to keep them clean.

One set of rain gear,
pants, one pair?

Yeah.

Always one pair of
pants, soft shell pant.

Um, just whatever I
like having something

that's a four way stretch
and has hip vents.

Those are two of the
key features for me.

Uh, and then
a gaiter too.

Make sure you, I think
taken a gaiter is

super, super underrated,
but I think everyone

who's mountain hunting
should have a gaiter.

Totally.
With them.

Uh, my first hunt, I
didn't take one and I

regret it a big time
or take a pair and

regretted it big time.

Um, but yeah, over the
calf gaiter synthetic, or

sorry, pair of soft shell
pants with a hip vent,

uh, and four-way stretch.

That's pretty key to me.

And then um, if you
want, everyone's totally

different in terms of
how your body runs.

I, my legs tend to run
pretty warm, so I don't

always take a pair of
long Johns, but if you

are looking for something
that has a side zip,

that you can just unzip
it on the side and pop

it right off that way,
you don't need to take

your boots off to get
your, uh, long johns off.

Right.
Which is kinda nice.

Um, moving on.

So we hit that
base layers yeah,

merino socks,
merino we got that.

One shirt, base
layer of merino wool?

Always, yeah.

Just one shirt.

Yep.
Yeah.

I've, there's been times
where I've smelt myself

and thought maybe I
should bring a different

shirt, but I just, I'm
usually with the guys

and we all smell so,
it is what it is right.

Um, if you're a good
enough hunter, you

know how to play your
wind and how to do

that all for the most
part too so, um, yeah.

Controlling your odour's
important, but you're

never going to get away
from it when you're doing

these long backpacking
trips in my opinion.

Um, your sleep system
is pretty important.

Uh, making sure you
have a good pad.

Like, whether, there's
a lot of different

options these days,
something I like to

use the Therm-A-Rest
I used a NeoAir this

year and that was, uh,
that was really nice.

Um, but there's tons
of different options

out there having a
good pad know when,

where you're going and
making sure that it

has the right Insulet
installation value for

that country, whether
it's you don't need

anything or, you know,
I think some of them

are right up to around
seven now at our scale.

So making sure
you go there.

And then sleeping bag,
there's a lot of debate

on sleeping bags.

I personally am a
synthetic fan just

because it has
the ability to dry

me out at night.

It does weigh a
little bit more.

It doesn't cost me
a thousand dollars

for a sleeping bag.

Yeah.

Um, and then down
is like, if it gets

wet or anything like
that, I know there's

the new treat a
down that's supposed

to be pretty good.

I just, personally, I
don't take the risk.

I like having a
synthetic bag.

What do you mean dry
you out at night?

So when you use a
synthetic, it has.

So synthetic materials
have the ability to,

um, use like the heat
from your body and

pull that moisture out.

Like, so out of your
gear, um, there's a

lot of good videos if
you search on YouTube,

that kind of show
it and how it works.

Um, but something like
a merino doesn't have

that ability to, uh,
push that moisture off

and to dry out as well
as synthetic does.

So when you're using that
synthetic sleeping bag,

the properties within
the material, um, pull

that moisture from you
and then kind of push

them out from there.

If that kinda
makes sense.

I get what you're saying.

What, uh, what
make are you, you

running right now?

For a sleeping bag?

Yeah.

I run a Marmot
Elite Trestles.

Okay.

I've had, I think I got
three of them right now,

different, uh, different
temperature ratings.

Uh, and I've been
running them for three

years and I love them.

They're like a $200,
$250 bag and I just

beat them, abuse them.

And then if I got to
replace them, it's not

like it's a thousand
dollars like a down.

You're not crying.

Yeah so.

It's a little heavier, it
takes up a bit more room.

It takes up a little
bit more room for sure.

But that's part
of having a little

bit of that bigger
pack too, and being

comfortable with that
little bit of whether

it's a pound extra or
half a pound extra.

Right.

Just having that little
bit of extra weight,

I'm comfortable with
it, I'm okay with it.

I know what I'm
getting myself into.

Um, so I'm
good with that.

Um, then your tent,
your tent is a big

one, making sure that,
uh, you're picking the

right tent for the trip.

Um, a lot of guys
tend to buy tents that

are cheaper and maybe
don't cut it when these

wind storms hit or
anything, or if they

get some snow or it's
just not built for it.

So making sure to
pick your tent right.

If you're doing some of
the late season stuff

and you're going in the
winter, you're definitely

to want to have some
sort of four season tent.

A lot of guys are
switching over to running

teepees now, which if
those work then great.

I haven't personally used
them, but, uh, making

sure you're picking the
right tent for the trip.

I think there's a lot of
different brands, even

within the hunting space.

Hilleberg, Kuiu
makes a tent.

A lot of guys tend to
run like the MSRs too.

They all make pretty
good products and it's

not a place that I'd
want to skimp on price

just because, um,
yeah, you're, you're

living in that thing
for seven to 10 days or

whatever it is right.

Right.

And so, and a good tent
is going to last you a

long time, as long as
you take care of it.

So, uh, that's the sleep
system and, and then

moving on from there,
electronics is something

I always have on my list.

You know, your Garmin,
portable battery

pack, some charging
cords, your headlamp.

Some guys like to run
two headlamps, uh, to

each their own, making
sure that personally,

one thing I've found,
and I learned this

from someone who had
a lot more experience.

Was I always take a
small flashlight and

the headlamp hat run
on the same batteries

so that they're super
interchangeable and

they're both also
can be recharged.

So you have the option
of those extra batteries

or to recharge them.

So that you're
always covered.

The last thing you want
to be is on the side of

a mountain and all of a
sudden your headlamp runs

out of battery and you
can't just switch another

battery into it cause
it's only rechargeable

and you're charging packs
back down at the tent.

Right.

So making sure you
have that option.

Uh, you're kill kit.

Having the right game
bags, everyone likes to

run different game bags.

There's a lot
on the market.

I personally like
to go with synthetic

game bags now.

Uh, I clean them out
after every time I

use them and they're
fully reasonable.

You spend a hundred bucks
to get them at first,

but it's better than
guys who want to pack

cheesecloth or something.

Cause I've seen all sorts
of different things.

Just my personal opinion.

Synthetic game bags
are the way to go and

there's lots of them
on the market now and

they're all great.

They all do the trick
and they're going to

keep bugs off of it.

And they're going to keep
the meat clean and you

hang them up right and
they're going to help

dry out that meat too.

Um, then I mean
a good knife.

A couple of knives,
I like to run a

couple knives.

I like to have a fixed
blade, a light fixed

blade and then I think
everyone has a Havalon

for the most part.

Right.

That's I think a Havalon
is it should be an every

mountain hunters pack
personally, um, super

light interchangeable
blades and they

can do a whole lot.

So that's super nice.

Uh, your cooking gear.

Uh, so your fuel cans,
you gonna want those,

like the regular fuel
cans and then depending

on what kind of stove
system you want to

go with, everyone's
totally different.

Um, I personally liked,
I just run a MSR, uh,

like the pocket rocket,
I believe it's called.

Um, and then, uh,
ran a Reactor 2.

Super good systems,
they all work.

Just making sure you
have something that's

gonna be able to boil
your water and then

you're gonna want to look
at if you are going in

the winter or whatever.

Um, making sure
something that

regulates is probably
pretty important too.

I know I ran a, just
a pocket rocket on the

trip last year and I
had a bunch of issues

with it so, luckily
one of my friends

had a better stove.

But, uh, yeah, just
having a good fuel

system and good stove
is going to be pretty

important because
we all need to eat

while we're out there.

So the issues were
just, at altitude,

it wasn't uh.

Temperature.

Okay.

Part of the temperature,
just, I don't

know what it was.

It wasn't made to
yeah, definitely was

not made for being
used in the winter.

Um, but uh, a lot of
the guys like to have

something that has
some sort of shield

too, that is going to
protect from the wind.

Right.

Just cause that'll affect
you boil time and all

that type of stuff too.

So you thinkin', um,
you going, uh, the

butane canisters?

Yep, yeah.

Over top of, uh, gas?

Yeah.

Yeah, I always go butane.

Yeah, exactly.

I've never ran
anything else, I've

never had the need to.

I know guys have talked
about using stoves that

are interchangeable
and stuff as well.

I know there's some
of those available

on the market.

I think it might be
called a WhisperLite

from MSR has one.

Yeah.

But yeah, I've always
just ran butane and

I've never had an
issue to date and

hopefully I don't ever
have an issue with it.

Okay.

How many canisters
are you taking up?

Depends on the trip.

So I, will generally
will run one of the

bigger, I believe it's
450, I want to say.

Okay.

Um, I'll take one, one
of those, if I'm just

going to be me for like
seven days and an area

where I'm not going
to be boiling a lot of

water for the winter
hunts, I double that up

and take a little but
of extra, tends to last.

But, uh, it all depends.

I ,even if you're just
doing a small weekend

trip, even some of
those, I don't remember

the exact size, but the
smaller butane, just like

the red, smaller butane
bottles, that'll get

you through the week or
a weekend if you're not

sitting there boiling
all day long, right.

Right.

You know, be
conscientious of what

you have for fuel and
be conscientious, a few

what you have for water.

Um, some guys tend to
get a little crazy, but

I mean, for me, I know
I personally like, we'll

get into food after,
but uh, I like to have

a miso soup midday.

So I'll boil up some,
a little bit of water

so I know I'm going to
have to take a little

bit extra fuel for
that extra meal that

I want to boil midday.

Right.

But you know, it's all
like personal and what

makes you comfortable
with being out there.

Um, optics is a
big one if we want

to touch on that.

Sure.

Yeah.

Um, so for
mountain hunting,

I prefer a 10x42.

Some guys run 12 power
and some guys run 8.

I've always found that
10 is kind of that

perfect in between.

My hands aren't the
steadiest, so running a

12 power I find a little
bit of shake in it.

Uh, one of the big
things a lot of guys

do and I've started
doing it too, is find

a system where you can
run your, uh, binoculars

on your tripod.

So whatever sort of
attachment is that

you need, get that
attachment and just put

your binoculars on that
tripod for any extended

period of glassing.

And you're going to
find a ton more game.

There's no shake,
you're super comfortable

at super steady.

It's, it's pretty
impressive.

I didn't believe it
until I tried it.

All these guys were
saying, oh, you gotta

do this, you gotta
do this, it helps.

But how much can it help?

I just put my elbows
on my knees and

glass and right.

But I tried it and yeah,
it's pretty unbelievable.

You bothering with the
spotting scope as well?

Oh yeah.

My spotting scope does
not leave my pack.

So I personally just bit
the bullet right away, I

went to a Swarovski, uh,
65 mm, 25 to 60 power,

um, spotting scope that
I hope will last me for

the rest of my life.

Uh, there, I mean,
Swarovski is the

top in the market.

Right.

Uh, but having, I think
up to 60 power's pretty

important, uh, as long as
it's good glass, because

if it's not great glass,
having that 60 powers.

Means nothing.

Not going to, yeah,
exactly, not going to

mean a whole lot to you
and any type of mountain

hunts, especially
because whether your

sheep hunting, your goat
hunting or your caribou

hunting, you gotta
identify, you know, if

your hunting area where
it's a five-point bull

or with elk, if its a
six point bull having

that good glass is going
to, you know, could very

well make the difference
on you being successful

or not being successful.

So making sure that you
got that, uh, moving

on from there, uh, just
miscellaneous stuff

that I like to have.

For all these types
of hunts, is always

electrical tape.

That's a big one that
I've just found is

pretty nice to have.

And what I do is I
just take my electrical

tape, I learned this
from a friend, and I

tape it around one of
the legs of my tripod,

just so it's not loose.

Okay.

So I'll tape it around
there and then I can

always just unroll it
off of there and use

it for whatever I need.

Um, fire cubes
are nice to have.

A lot of people and
myself included tend

to take a floss.

Sure.

Yeah.

Just having floss just
because there's nothing

worse than having
something stuck in your

teeth and bothering you.

And that'll just
throw off your mental

a little bit too.

So just having that,
and then the other

thing that floss works
good for too is if you

do take an animal and
you're trying to get some

pictures and you can't
get them off, shut, just

take a little bit of
floss and tie it around

there, it holds a shot.

A good tip.

Yeah.

You're a toothpaste,
your toothbrush, I

like to take those mini
travel toothbrushes.

The ones at first was to
fold into each other or

folding within itself.

And I only take the one
half that's actually

the toothbrush part just
to cut on the weight.

And then medical
kid, of course.

Uh, and those are
the main things

that I always have.

What do you throw
in your med med kit?

Uh, nothing too crazy.

I like.

More blister care?

A little bit of
blister care.

Um, I've learned to
not ever, uh, I mean

everyone's different, but
I've just kind of used

gauze for the most part
and taped it up for now

and then I pull it off.

I've found with like
anything like a lot of

the blister medics and
stuff, it'll just pull

any of that scabbing
or anything that starts

to heal right off.

And then you've
just opened up

the wound again.

So I've tried to avoid
that and I've just kind

of put gauze on there
and then I tape it up

for the most part and
let her breathe whenever

I got a little bit of
time to, and I've had

success, I'm sure some
guys will have different

opinions on that, but
it's to each their

own and whatever guys
are comfortable with.

Uh, moving into food.

Food's a big one.

That you can gain and
lose weight in, in terms

of, you know, how heavy
your pack is going to be.

And the one thing with
food and talking to a

lot of guys that have my
same level experience or

more experiences, if you
want to get light food,

it's going to be, you
know, the more you're

spending, let's just
kind of the only way.

Um, I think it's
important for guys to

identify how much food
they need in a day.

Don't listen to forums,
don't go and read all

these things online.

Know what you need in
a day, cause everyone's

totally different.

You know, 150 pound
guy in a 250 pound

guy are gonna need
certain amounts of

food and they're not
going to be the same.

It's just, it's not.

So know how many calories
you need, uh, figure that

out first and then figure
out where you want to

get those calories from.

Personally, I like having
a good breakfast in the

morning and a good meal
at night, and then just

snacking during the day.

And that's what I've
always had success with.

I only need about 26
to 2,800 calories a

day when I'm in the
mountains, which is less

than a lot of people.

Some guys need 3,500
or 4,000 calories.

I just, I don't need
that to survive.

And I've also found that
one of the things to

take into consideration
too, is not all of

your days are going to
be high output days.

So you're not always
going to need all

of those calories.

You're going to have
days where you're just

sitting in glass and you
don't need as much food.

So there's a lot of times
when I have a lot of

food that's left over for
days where I have those

high output days and
need a little bit extra.

Are you, uh,
hiking in freshie?

Or are you freeze
dried or dehydrated?

Yeah, I'm, I'm, uh,
all freeze dried.

I've been, um,
using Peak Refuel.

Okay.
For the last while.

Uh, probably last year.

And I've been really
impressed with

all their stuff.

Mountain House is
always good, you can

buy it off the shelf.

There's a lot of
different options that

a lot of that are coming
up, but, um, I use Peak

Refuel for the most part.

And then I try to get a
lot of my calories from

as much fat food, like
fat-based foods as I can.

So I've switched
over to bars, like

uh, good fat bars.

Um, I'm really big
fan of, uh, Honey

Stingers, if guys
have never had Honey

Stingers, definitely
give them a shot.

Uh, like I said
before, I always like

having Lipton or not,
Lipton, uh miso soup.

It's just a pick me up
in the middle of the

day, boil some water
and you get a little bit

of extra salt in there.

And then I'll take
an ounce of olive

oil and add that in
there too for a couple

extra calories so.

Smart.

Yeah, I store that in
a cup and I drink it

and a couple of buddies
have looked at me

like, are you actually
eating miso soup on

top of a mountain?

And I'm like, yeah, it
helps me feel better.

What's it to ya.

Mental mindset.

It's it's huge.

Yeah, exactly.

Um, beef jerky, something
that I always take, just

packing a little beef
jerky, and it's part

of the mental thing.

Just something good that
I enjoy eating day in

and day out because you
remember you're eating

the same thing every
single day for the most

part so, beef jerky is
just something I can

eat every single day
and have no problem.

Same with trail mix, I
like having trail mix so.

Right.

That's always a good one
to have a Moon Cheese

is one that not a lot of
guys have heard of it.

If you go to MEC,
you can get it.

It's like a
dehydrated cheese.

Okay.

You either love it or
you hate it so, yeah.

Yeah.

It's definitely worth
trying to a lot of

calories in it and
it's pretty light.

I don't mind it, but
some guys can't stand it

and other guys love it.

So they'll
live off of it.

Moon Cheese.

Yeah.
Moon Cheese.

It's a dehydrated
cheese, there's different

brands for it, but that's
just the one that I've

been using just cause
it's nice and easy.

And you just go to
MEC and pick it up.

Like I had a lot of
guys swear by Clif Bars.

I can't get, I cannot
eat a Clif Bar.

Yeah, they're
not my favorite.

Yeah.

They're just, I'm like,
I'm not going to take

this because I feel like
I need whatever's in it.

There's way better
ways to figure out

a way to get it.

They just remind me of
Homer Simpson eaten the

compressed apple cores in
the he's doing his little

mountain adventure.

Yeah, definitely big
there guys, like,

um, then good on ya.

Fair enough.

But for me, that's
definitely not a, it's

definitely not where
I want to get some

of the calories from.

Um, and the other one
that's been really

nice is, it's called
Justin's Almond Butter.

And it's like, almost
like a Nutella, just

a packet of Nutella.

I'll just eat that
like kind of after

breakfast or something.

And lots of calories
comes from fats and

it's all good for you.

So that's kind of
where my food is and

what my go-to is.

And then the only
other thing is, I mean,

everyone's different
on their rifle and

what they like to use.

Um, the one thing with
a rifle is you don't

want to be carrying
around a 12 pound

rifle in the mountain,
ideally, most guys don't.

Um, so the other thing,
I am personally right now

building a rifle because
I wanted something that

fits for what I want and
having a 24 to 26 inch

barrel I found was very,
very annoying because it

caught everything up and.

Right.
Above my head.

So I just built a
rifle that had a 20

inch, or that has a
20 inch barrel because

it sits below my head.

It's not going to
be catching anything

a little bit more
compact, but.

What kind of action
you building it on?

Defiance, anTi.

Nice.

So the new defines anti
with a carbon barrel

and Gunwerk stock so.

Wow, going all
out on this one.

Yeah.

I feel like
it's my rifle.

That's going to be my
full mountain hunting

rifle and, uh, built
it in a totally new

caliber that a lot of
people have kind of

been, uh, excited about.

It's not a totally
new caliber, it's

actually an older
calibre, but, but it's

become popular again.

Um, and it's seems
to perform well with

a short barrel so

What's it chambered in?

7 SAUM.

Nice.

Yeah.

So it'll be a, it's
not chambered yet.

It's going to the
gunsmith tomorrow,

but I'm excited to see
how it turns out and

get shooting and get a
load worked up for it.

And that'll be my
mountain rifle.

And it's my kind of,
you know, a lot of

guys, oh, there's no
one rifle to do it all.

And I'm like,
yeah, you're right.

There's not one rifle
to do all, but I'm

comfortable with what
I just put together

that any mountain
game in BC I'd be

comfortable with that so

What's it uh, well,
I guess once it's all

put together, you'll
know, but w what are you

hoping to weigh in at?

It's going to be just
shy of eight pounds.

So it will be, I did
quick math yesterday.

It's seven, seven quickly
on the math that I did.

I'm not a ultra
light guy.

Like I don't believe
in a six pound rifle.

Cause I believe you
lose shootability in

a six pound rifle.

You tend to get a lot of
whip, bit more recoil.

I just don't enjoy it.

That seven and a half
to eight and a half

pound range is kind
of what I thought was

my, or I personally
believe is perfect

for a mountain rifle.

And some guys will listen
to this and think, oh

no, it's way too heavy,
but to each their own.

I just shootability,
packability, are both

things that I consider
and I mean, shootability

is a big, big, big factor
that you got to take

into effect or take into.

Huge.
Account.

So yeah, if you can
pack a rifle around,

but can't shoot it,
what good is it?

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's not every time that
it's one shot, one kill.

So, you know, I take
that into account.

And, uh, I think
that's, most of all the

gear that I'm taking.

Little lighter
or a striker,

what're you using?

Uh, I usually pack a
lighter and then a small

striker, just a, one
of those, like they're

called the ferro rod.

Yeah.

It just takes a
small ferro rod.

Um, and then some of the
fire cubes actually have,

uh, it's kind of like a
ferro rod too, that comes

with them when you buy
the pack of fire cubes.

They're nice to have,
they're like under an

ounce and just throw
them in wherever.

So lightweight.

Yeah.

So it's nice to have
those kinds of things

and have a bunch of
different options.

Definitely don't
want to rely on just

having one lighter.

Some guys like
waterproof matches.

I used to carry em, I
don't carry them so much

anymore, just cause I
have the ferro rod, the

lighter and that other
little piece, so I've

been okay without it.

Um, but matches
are good to have.

And then, uh, some guys
I used to carry up like

an emergency candle,
I don't know why.

Just like a
level of comfort.

Yeah, like a little
tealight right?

Yeah.

I'd carry that sometimes.

I haven't been using
it as much in the last

couple of years, but
uh, they're they're,

they are kind of nice
to have and just kind

of throw in the tent
and that kind of stuff.

Um, I, I always take
a, I'm drawing a blank

again, a sponge with me.

I learned this on
a, from a film.

When you're out there,
you're spending a lot

of nights, your tent
tends to build up all

that condensation, so
just having that sponge.

Good point.

And, yeah cleaning off
that, uh, condensation,

that's built up on
the top of the tent

so that you don't get
up and get soaked.

Yeah, disgusting
but good point.

Yeah.

Yeah.
Exactly.

Good to have.

Uh, I'm just trying to
think if there's any,

those are the main things
that, uh, I like to have

a little titanium cup
is always nice to have

for, you know, if you
wanna have some drinks,

if you want to take a
little bit of whiskey or

whatever, mix that in,
it's always nice to kind

of have on the mountain
for a little bit of a

pick me up, especially
for those long, long

days or when you're
not having any success.

And you're sitting there
at night and you just

need something to help
you feel a little better.

That's always
an option too.

Um, but yeah, those
are, those are the main

things that I'm taking.

A lot of guys, like I'm
taking different type

packets for mixing into
their water, whether it's

like a Wilderness Athlete
packet or just something

to get their electrolytes
and everything back in.

So it's good to have to.

You do those?

Uh, I do.

Yeah.

I just started last
year taking some

of the Wilderness
Athlete packs with me.

Okay.

And they have a nice,
it's nice to have a

little bit of flavor
in the water too.

Yeah.

And I mean, I can't say
I feel like a hundred

times better because
I took, you know,

packer electrolytes,
but it definitely does

help in the long run.

Um, yeah.

That's most of my kit
there trying to think

if there's anything
else that's specialized

to mountain hunting,
but I mean, that covers

it for the most part.

And everyone's
going to have a

variation of something
like that right.

So everyone's going
to have their opinion,

but I think the most
important thing is just

build your own opinion
on what works for you.

Right, go there, try it.

Exactly.

You know, there's only
one way to figure out

if it's going to be for
you, it's by trying it,

uh, having a, actually
another thing is a lot

of guys like to have
a SOL tarp, just a

glass under and stuff.

I always keep a
lightweight one in my

pack pack, uh, covers
you from the rain or

even from the sun, if
it's hot day, right.

You just set that up
and you get out of

the sun and just to
another added level

of comfort for sure.

What size SOL tarp
are you takin?

Uh, mine's an 8x10,.

It's the Kifaru
Sheep Target.

Believe it's 8x10 and
super lightweight.

It's just under a pound,
I believe, uh, fits

anywhere in the pack.

And it's super easy
to pull out, hanging

out with your, uh,
your hiking poles.

Oh, hiking poles.

There you go.

Yeah.

Didn't even think
about that one.

See that's what I usually
wrap my tape around.

Yeah.

A lot of guys
do that too.

Uh, but I think, I
don't know how many guys

I've talked to, like
you take hiking poles?

I'm like, yeah I
take hiking poles.

Totally.

You've got a 120 pound
pack you're talking

about, it'd be kind of
nice with hiking poles.

Yeah, exactly.

So I think hiking
poles everyone should

have, unless you're
not, I mean, some

guys aren't gonna
like it, but they're

super nice to have.

And uh, yeah that's
everything for the

most part I think.

Carbon fiber or aluminum?

I use aluminum.

Yeah.

I've just had the
same ones for six

years and they
haven't failed me yet.

So why change?

Fair enough.

That's kind of been
my approach on it.

I'm sure I'll switch
out, but I look at the

price of carbon poles
and I'm like, yeah.

So expensive!

Yeah, I'm like my
aluminum poles have done

just fine for six years.

I'm sure they will uh,
until they break out,

keep running though.

I think you covered
everything there.

And then of course, if
you're in the winter

side, you're looking at
crampons possibly and.

Yeah.

Oh definitely.

Crampons, climbing ropes.

And I mean, other hunts,
you might need a climbing

rope too, but again, only
if you're comfortable

with it and you have the
right training and or you

have someone with who's
comfortable in using it.

What size rope
you're taking?

Uh, the one I took last
year was about 200 feet

with 9.8 mil dynamic.

Um, and we only really
needed it for like,

we would tie it up to
kind of lower ourselves

down onto the goat
and then to tie up

the goat a little bit,
just to support a while

we were cleaning it.

Um, so we didn't need
it for anything, like

at no point did I ever
have to put my harness

on luckily, but, uh,
the other rope was good.

I mean, it's an
extra seven pounds.

You got to carry in your,
right in your backpack,

which kind of sucks.

But you know, it could
be worth it in the end.

Um, yeah and I mean,
for those winter hunts,

crampons, ice ax.

Ice ax is a big one,
I took a bad spill and

luckily had my ice.

They wouldn't have been
anything where I have

got seriously hurt cause
I hit some pretty good

powder after, but digging
my ice ax into the ice

was a good way to slow
my, slow my fall down a

little bit, or my slide.

It's a pretty
thorough list.

Yeah.

I, I mean, you spend a
lot of time out there.

You just kind of
start to learn what

works for you and what
doesn't work for you.

And like I
said, everyone's

totally different.

And you know, everyone
likes to, I'm a Kuiu

guy or I'm a Sitka guy,
or I'm a Kifaru guy, or

I'm a FirstLite guy and
there's a lot of the

back and forth banter.

But at the end of the
day, it's all going to

get you on the mountains.

And a lot of guys don't
buy any of that stuff and

they go to MEC and they
buy whatevers there, or.

Right.
Atmosphere, right.

Or Arc'Teryx, like it's
all good gear, right.

It's all made for
being on the mountains.

And if it's good
enough for guys who

are mountaineering, I'm
sure it's good enough

for guys we're hunting.

Yeah.
Good point.

Good point.

Yeah.

So winter hunt, you're
talking about doing a

goat hunt in the winter.

Yeah.

Can you, like first
off, what prompted

this insanity?

Good question.

That's a very
good question.

A couple of years ago,
the guys at the Journal

Mountain Hunting did
a winter goat hunt

that they recorded.

They put it out.

Uh, I watched it and I
said, I got to do one

of these, like just the
challenge and all of

that is it, it's insane.

And to watch that video
really opened my eyes

to kind of some of the
possibilities that we had

here in British Columbia.

So right after that,
we, I started talking

to some friends who I
knew might be interested

and they had already
had a trip planned for

the following year.

So they went and did that
and they sent me all the

pictures from that trip
and it just like got the

blood boiling even more.

And I'm like, okay
we definitely need

to do this planned
one for 2020, which

I was lucky enough to
have the the tag for.

And we went up February
around the 20th of 2020,

and we walked in and
I was fortunate enough

to get into a spot
where we found a billy

pretty much on day one.

Um, and we were able
to take that billy

on day one, but that
wasn't the end of it.

The, the toughest
part of that hunt

was trying to access
the area we got into.

It was about six
hours to get into a

spot where we could
start glassing goats.

We were just fortunate
enough to get on to a

good billy right away.

But from there is
where a lot of the

adventure started.

Once that billy had
hit the ground, we kind

of, I underestimated
how difficult it was

going to be to get
into a couple of spots.

And this comes into
identifying where these

goats are going to die
and we did, and we knew

that at any point we
could get into, in some

areas, we're going to
be a little bit more

difficult than others.

We tried making a
play to get up to him

cause it was already
pretty late that night.

It was about 5:30 and
you don't have a ton

of light in February.

Right.

5, 5:30 and we tried
getting up with

headlamps and we
just couldn't do it.

It just wasn't safe.

So we had to back out,
spend the night down

at the bottom and then
make the play again

in the morning it took
us, I believe, 13 hours

of climbing going up,
getting rocked out back

and back down, going
up, getting bluffed

out again, just working
our way around until

we finally got to the
goat and we're able to

start working on him.

And I think from
the time we left the

tents to the time we
recovered the goat, we

were able to cape him
out and I caped 'em out

for like a life size.

So that took quite
a bit of time.

Um, and then get
him back down.

I think it was 16 or 17
hours, like a 16, 17 hour

just retrieval alone.

And we had some great
weather on that trip.

And we kind of came out
talking about, you know,

this isn't too bad,
this winter goat thing

planned our 2021 trip.

So this year we went
again at the same

time of the year.

I didn't have a
tag this year.

Both of my friends,
Lorne Trousdell

Mark Trousdell did.

And we had high
expectations.

We just, the year before
we'd done a three day.

Get it day one right?

Yeah.

We did a three-day
goat hunt.

We saw lots of goats.

Yeah.

But, uh, the boys wanted
to try a totally new

area, pretty foreign
to us for the most

part, we had a little
bit of information

from others, people.

So we got up, uh, we
kind of did the drive

in one day, got up there
and we hiked in later

into the evening, we
did about three hours

to get in with a plan
of doing a bit more

relocating the next day
and get further back

into the valley, did a
little bit of, um, Google

earth on the phones.

We had saved kind of
the maps in the area

and figured we were in
a decent area that night

where we could set camp
and still be able to hunt

for a couple of days.

We got rained on,
snowed on that night.

Woke up the next morning
had no visibility.

We spent four days
without moving more

than 150 yards from our
tent, just because we

had zero visibility.

There was no point in
moving further down

because we couldn't see
anything, we didn't know

what was going to happen.

Avalanche conditions were
pretty high throughout

the entire trip, just
with the amount of rain

that was coming down.

Um, I remember at one
point, I think it was day

two or day three, we're
sitting there and we had,

we set it up pretty good.

We took two, two man
tents, and then we

took a, a shelter and
we set the shelter up

above and in between
the two tents, just so

that, uh, we had a bit
of a hangout area and

we kind of dug it out.

And the three of us
could kind of sit

huddled in there and
just hang out and

talk and listen to our
podcast or read a book.

But yeah, we spent
uh, day two, we're

sitting there, uh,
having dinner I think,

and it was raining.

And all of a sudden,
you just kind of heard

a little bit of a crack
and some start to slide

and this avalanche broke
off across the valley.

I think it was about
400 yards down valley

and it was insane, like
just the crashing boom.

You could hear the trees
snapping off and we went

and checked it out the
next day and the snow had

came right off and built
up right at the bottom of

this big avalanche shoot.

And you're just thinking
like, wow, like, you

know, when you set your
camp, you pick a spot

that you're not in any
sort of real avy shoot,

but you know, if guys
don't know what they're

looking for, someone
doesn't know where they

should or shouldn't
camp could get really

dangerous really quick.

Totally.

So yeah, it was, I
hadn't had any real big

avalanches around me ever
before that, but that

one going off was kind
of eyeopening for sure.

But yeah.

So the next couple of
days, again, we just kind

of spent it at the tent.

Um, day four I remember
sitting, going to sit

up and my hips were
just shot from laying

down so much sitting
and laying down so much.

I'm like, I just,
I can't do this.

And you're wet the
entire time, it's coastal

conditions in February.

You're on a ton of snow
and then it's raining on

you the whole time too.

So, remember looking at
the weather and tell him

one of the guys I'm like,
should we just pull out?

Like we haven't seen any
goats in the time we've

actually been able to
glass kind of the faces

in the mountains, around
us, the conditions aren't

looking like they're
going to get any better.

Like, I don't, I don't
know what we should do.

Um, my friend Lorne, he
just does not give up.

Like he has no quit in
him, like, if we're there

for eight days, we're
there for eight days

and it doesn't matter
unless we cut a tag,

we're not coming out.

Good for him.

So I'm like, okay, we're
in it for the long haul.

You guys came with me
and packed out my goat.

I'm here to help too.

So day five, we finally
caught a little bit of

break in the weather
and we went about 9k

down valley that day
and did some glass and

then got into an area
that looked a little

bit like it had a little
bit more potential.

But at this point, all
of our gear was so soaked

and so wet, we hadn't
brought our camp with us.

We just kind of
got down valley as

quick as possible.

And when you're going
through that much snow

and a lot of the snow
softened up and you're

still in snow shoes,
but it's hard to break

through sometimes
and just get down.

Oh yeah.

Valleys.

It's it's a bit
of a nightmare.

So we packed it back
out and on the way

back store, another
storm rolled in.

And I remember hitting
the creek at one point

and looking at the guys
and it just hammered

down snow on us.

And they took a picture,
uh, where we're just

covered, like within
a couple minutes of

stopping, we're just
all white covered,

trying to fill our water
bottles on this creek.

And I'm like, mad,
what are we doing here?

Like this is, it
makes no sense.

Sounds like a
survival exercise.

A little bit,
in a way yeah.

Um, we got back to
camp and then the

next day the weather
broke for us again.

We were able to do some
more glass in and we've

got down the valley
and day six I think

it was, we finally
saw our first goats.

We, uh, saw three
billies and, um, in

a spot where we knew
we could access them.

And we weren't sure if we
were going to make a play

at them, it was kind of
getting late in the day

and, uh, just couldn't
make it happen that day.

But we made a decision
that we're going to

come back the next day,
a day that I had said,

if we don't see any
goats were taken off,

like this is getting.

But anyway, so we
did, we came back in

that day and we made a
play up the mountain.

And again, just kind of
like the year before you

kind of underestimate how
much time it's going to

take you to get up some
of these spots and climb

up through, and you're
using an ice ax and you

got your crampons on, and
you're switching between

crampons and snow shoes,
depending on kind of what

the conditions you're in.

But yeah, we made a play
up to these goats were,

thinking we might be able
to get a good look at

them and just couldn't
once we got up there,

just couldn't find what
we were looking for.

And, you know, you
always kind of under

judged the stuff
you might be in and.

Right.

Came out that, came
back down that night

and we're kind of
hiking back towards camp

and we're all pretty
defeated and no success.

And I remember looking
at the guys and we're

just kinda like, I think
I said to them, I'm

like, I could really
use a pizza tonight.

Cause we're like, I think
it was day seven, it

might've even been eight.

And they kind of all,
were they looked at each

other and they looked
at me and we kind of

decided, all right, well,
let's just pack up camp

and head out tonight.

And at this point
it's like 9:30, 10

o'clock at night.

And we still got two
hours to get back

towards our camp.

And then two to three
hours depending to

hoof out and you're
doing a goat hunt in

the winter, you're
taking a ton of gear.

Like our packs, none
of our packs were

under 75 pounds.

So it's just get back
to camp that night,

pack it all up.

And we start doing
this hike out at night

and it's, I believe it
was a full moon cause

I remember like my
headlight died and I

was still was lit with
a full moon behind me.

And just like, the
whole time again,

questioning that type
two fun attitude.

Like, why am I doing it?

Why do we do this?

Why did I come here?

Why did I just took
a week off work to

come and do this?

Like just super
frustrated.

And you kinda get back
to the truck that night

and you sit down at
the truck and you know,

we always just have a
hangout or have a drink

or have a little bit
normal food that we

left in the truck and
kind of sat back, relax

and talked about it.

Get out of there, start
driving in the middle

of the night and find
somewhere you can get

a motel for the night.

We're able to get
pizza that night.

Nice.

Take a shower and then,
you know, you're kind

of sitting there and
it's like, I dunno, it

was like two, three in
the morning or something

and we're looking at
each other and we're

like, yeah, that sucked.

But we'll probably be
here again next year

just doing it again.

It's that type two thing.

Cause you know, we're
suckers for pain I guess.

But um.

You know, it's a feeling
of accomplishment

when it's done.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's just like,
there's no success.

We had, you know, we
didn't take a goat

this year, but we'll
definitely be back there

again to do it again
and try and take a goat.

Still the feeling of
accomplishment as a team,

going out there and,
and at least doing that,

you know, I always, I
always have a difficult

time when I make the
harvest of the animal

the ultimate goal.

Exactly.

And when, when, if that
is my ultimate goal,

then I'm either going
to be happy or not.

Yeah.

And I I've always
made it a very big

point, particularly
with, with my kids as

well at the, uh, the
journey is the, the

adventure, the journey
is the point of it and.

Definitely.

If you're successful
or not on the harvest

that that's just
icing on the cake.

Absolutely.

Yeah, definitely.

And you know, when
you're doing those kinds

of trips, especially
these winter goat

hunts, like you're,
you're definitely doing

it for the adventure.

You're not going
out there just.

Right.

For the reason that you
want to harvest them.

Like you're going
out there for the

challenge, the
adventure, the memory,

all of that right.

So, and you get some
pretty cool pictures

along the way,
I'll tell ya that.

Oh, totally.

Yeah.

So 2022 doing it again?

I'm going to take a year
off this year, I think

from 2022, although
just this past weekend,

I kind of, might've
got roped into one.

I don't know.

We'll kind of see.

Um, the guys are planning
one already, so we'll

see what happens.

I might end up swinging
into it and doing it.

Well, we'll see, I told
them I'd be sending them

text messages from Mexico
drinking a pina colada,

but that may not happen.

We'll see.

I love it.

Yeah.

So if people wanted to
learn more about what

the Goat Alliance does,
you guys have a website?

Yeah.

Um, obviously that's
a pretty good place

to check it out.

Yep.

Um, do they have any,
would you be a local

contact on there?

Yes, exactly.

So that, that's the
whole point of this new

regional representative
program is that everyone

in all these respective
different areas is

going to have someone
or a point of contact

for the Goat Alliance.

And I'll be one of
two, that'll be in

British Columbia.

And more than likely,
I'll be kind of

handling the west
side of the province.

And hopefully someone
will be on the east

side of the province,
or however, we're going

to decide to divide that
up, but we'll sort that

out, but yeah, I can be
that point of contact.

There's also the social
media channel, like the

Instagram Goat Alliance.

That's a, that's a
big one and a really

good one to check
out in the website,

GoatAlliance.org.

That's obviously where
guys can go and sign

up and get signed up
for a membership or do

whatever they want to do.

And there's tons of
great information.

There's blog
posts on there.

There's all sorts
of different

things on there.

So, what other things
that people need to

know about what the
Goat Alliance does?

And if they really want
to get involved with

this, what would they
be expecting to do?

So, one of the big
aspects of the Goat

Alliance is citizen
science and the idea

of citizen science and
doing citizen science.

Uh, the surveys are
a really big one and

there's been tons of
surveys done by the

Goat Alliance down in
the states and people

love going out to them,
but that's a really big

way to get involved.

Obviously membership's
a big one too, because

no organization works
without the dollars

and we can't help
different people

in different places
without putting money

on the ground, as well.

As nice it has to
have boots on the

ground, those dollars
help a lot as well.

Huge.

Yeah, exactly.

So signing up for a
membership on there and

then reaching out to,
even on the social media

page or whether that,
or reaching out directly

to me to talk about
upcoming, any upcoming

projects or anything
like that, there's always

something going on that
people can get involved

in or talk to us about.

Or if they've got ideas,
if they've seen something

come up outdoor, or they
were doing a mountain

goat hunt and they
noticed something that

seemed a little odd,
shoot us a message.

Let's talk about it
and see if there's

something that Goat
Alliance can do there.

So I'm going to put
links up both on

the YouTube page.

They're going to have
them in the podcast

and we'll do a little
blog post as well

with all of that
information in there.

So anyone who's listening
to this, just check

out the website, check
out the, uh, you'll see

it right here, right
there on your podcast.

All of that
information will be

right there for you.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Is there anything
else that we should

be talking about?

Some people say.

Why would I
want to do that?

It sounds like an
awful lot of work for

a small bit of meat.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I think
there's a lot to, uh, the

adventure when it comes
to goat hunting is one

of the biggest things, in
my opinion, uh, watching

these animals who live
in some of the craziest

craziest places that you
could imagine, you're

just trying to figure out
how they're even walking

on some of these bluffs.

Right.

Just watching
it is amazing.

Um, so just accessing
it and seeing it

is, is super cool.

And then the ability
to, again, it comes up

again is take the right
animal, taking that right

out and finding that
right billy, I believe

is definitely part of
the allure as well.

Um, you want to take
an old mature animal,

you don't want to be
taken a two year old

animal or whatever, but
chasing and taking the

right billy and making
sure you're not taking

a nannie, I think adds
to that challenge.

And for me, it.

I love the challenge.

Like, I, I don't want to
go out and take something

and just come home every
time I go hunting right.

Right.
So, um.

That'd be
called shopping.

Exactly.

Right.

And I think that's part
of why the group of

people that I hunt with
and stuff now started

doing these winter
hunts is just that added

element of the challenge.

And we're going in on
four to six feet of snow

sometimes underneath
us and camping in just

below avalanche shoots.

And this year we had
avalanches popping off

around us and it just
adds to everything it

adds to the experience.

It adds to why we're
out there, the stories,

the memories, it's
just, it's awesome.

And then when you do
take one of these goat,

like I've, I've only
personally taken one.

I've been on a few now
where we were successful,

but I've personally
taken one and it was

the end of February
and walking up to it.

And in some parts I got
12 inches of hair and

they're like massive
animals, like 250

to 300 pound animal.

It's so cool.

And they live
in the, yeah.

Going back to the
country, like they just

live in the most awesome
places on some of those

sketchy rock bluffs.

And yeah.

Are you loving it when
you're out there and

you're slogging through
the snow or are you

loving it in retrospect,
when you think back

about the hunt?

It's definitely
type two fun.

Yes.
100%.

It is type two fun.

Yeah.

There's been many times
when I'm out there and

I questioned my sanity
and question why we're

even out there in these
kinds of conditions and

you come back and you sit
back for six months and

you're like, yeah, yeah.

I can't wait to get out
there and do it again.

I I've heard it
described like the,

uh, the rollercoaster.

Hey, you're fun on the
rollercoaster, but you

don't look back and say,
man, that roller coaster

ride share was great.

Whereas something like
this, where you're

pushing yourself and
your well outside of

your comfort zone,
and you sometimes

might hate yourself
during the process.

Yeah.

But you look back on
that and it's just

ingrained in your mind
as a positive memory that

you'll always remember.

Type two fun.

I like that.

So a lot of people
refer to it and I

mean, it's a perfect
way to talk about it.

Like in the moment
you're questioning why

you're there and then
you get back and you

look back on it and
you remember why you're

there and you can't
wait to do it again.

So I'm going to have
to, uh, get my rearing

gear and, uh, start
planning a goat hunt.

Yeah, definitely.

And like I said, living
in British Columbia.

We have so much
opportunity in so

many different areas,
whether you want to

put in through our draw
system or just do an

over the counter tag.

And there's so many
different types of

country you can go into.

There's so many different
levels of access that

you can go into when it
comes to hunting these

goats, that the options
are kind of endless.

And we're so
fortunate for that.

Uh, we can do combination
hunts with other species.

A lot of guys tend
to go on sheep hunts,

and then they pack
a goat tag as well,

uh, or caribou hunts.

And, you know, the goats
are kind of up above ya.

Right.

Yeah.

There's a lot of that.

Even when you go into
Eastern BC, you can

do an elk hunt and you
could be holding a goat

tag in your pocket if
you've got to draw and

you're elk tag or your
elk hunt can switch into

a goat hunt pretty quick.

Like, it's just so
awesome to have a species

that's so all over our
province and we have

so much access to being
able to hunt them.

And I think a lot of guys
tend to overlook that.

And then once you do your
first goat hunt, you're

kind of hooked on it.

You're like, why did I
never do this before?

Why did I never think
about doing this before

everyone's hung up on
hunting elk and chasing

a bugle or chasing
full curl rams, right?

Where you don't think so
much about goats because

they have these eight to
10 inch horns and, you

know, they don't maybe
show as well, but when

you get into the actual
venture and you do the

actual trip, it's, I'd
say there's a lot more

adventure and there's
a lot more interesting

moments on a goat hunt
than anything else.

No kidding.

So if you're looking at
optimal goat area, what

would you be looking for?

It's tough to say.

So I'm going to
it'll depend on what

part of the province
I'm going to be in.

So generally, if you
look at coastal British

Columbia, it's tends to
be steep, very steep,

very timbered areas.

And I found that a
lot of the goats tend

to live right around
treeline or in these

rock bluffs that tend to
be right around trees.

Just, they have a
lot of escape routes.

Look for something
that has a ton

of escape routes.

When you look up in,
towards Northern British

Columbia, a lot of these
goats like to live in

grassy bowls or just
above those grassy bowls

where a rock faces up
above, uh, somewhere

that again, they have
that escape terrain

and that escape terrain
is a big thing to look

for because it's a way
for them to get away

from predators as well.

They're going to
want that level

of safety, right?

A goat can get
up a rock face.

Grizzly bear probably
can't or a Wolf

probably can't.

So identifying scape
trends, identifying

those go-to areas.

Um, and depending on
what the conditions are

like, you know, like a
lot of species, south

facing generally, uh,
depending on that time

of year, you're going
to want to be focusing

on, um, not always.

And that another
thing that we've seen

with goats too, is,
uh, depending on the

temperatures and what
the conditions are

like, if it's hot out,
they're going to try

to find some snow.

Anywhere there's
a glacier snow,

they're going to
want to live on that.

Cause it's cool right?

Right.

So if you're hunting that
Northern BC where it can

be 30 plus degrees at the
start of August, and you

might have a goat tag,
maybe try and identify

where the glaciers are,
where you're going to be

able to find some snow
cause you might find some

goats in there as well.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

A best time of day?

Uh, I found with goats,
you can kind of, they,

they tend to bed mid day,
a lot, like any other

animal and they tend to
move in the mornings,

in the evenings,
but they're white.

Like, unless you're
hunting them in the

winter, generally
you're looking for a

white on a rock face.

So I found that goats
are probably the

easiest animal to
pick out when you're

doing some glassing.

Right.

Um, but again, it's still
important to have good

glass when you're out
there and making sure

that, uh, especially with
the spotter and you're

able to identify and
judge them and do it.

Do you ever
solo hunt these?

I've never solo hunted

goats no, that's not
something I would

personally want to do.

I mean, a lot of guys do
it and all the power to

them, but I've just found
myself in some situations

when I was goat, when
I've been goat hunting,

that I would not want
to be there by myself.

We've been roped up.

We, when we do our winter
hunts, we carry, um,

small packable harnesses
and usually about 200

feet of climbing rope.

Obviously make sure you
got someone on the trip

that knows knotting and
knows how to climb and.

Right.

Has experienced
with that.

Um, cause you don't want
to get into a situation

where you think you're
more comfortable than

you actually should be
and put yourself into a

bad situation of course.

But yeah, definitely
not something I don't

think I'd want to do
solo, maybe go out

and scope for them
solo, but I wouldn't

actually get right into
the nasty by myself.

Right.

But to each their own of
guys, you know, there's

guys that don't have a
lot more mountaineering

and backpacking and
climbing experience than

I might have that are
comfortable with that.

Um, I know there's some
guys in the province that

do it by themselves and
they don't go anywhere

without having a helmet
on just in case like

just having that safety
aspect of it right.

That's smart.

And I think it's
important that anyone,

when we're going out and
chasing these animals

have a certain way
to keep in contact or

keeping communication
with people on the

outside when you don't
have cell reception, just

in case something like
that does happen right.

Right.

Like a little inReach
or a spot, or are you

even bother with, uh,
sat phones anymore?

I haven't seen a
satphone since that

first fly in hunt action
I did six years ago.

I've I've never had great
success with sat phones.

No, they're, they're
cut pretty in and out

and pretty limited
on how much you can

actually use them, but.

And they're heavier.

Yeah, they are.

But yeah, they
definitely are.

I've just had good
success with an inReach

and I think that's
probably the best way to

go or one of the better
ways to go for sure.

Yeah.

So even like going back
to the Rocky Mountain

Goat Alliance and just
funding and stuff, I

had to pull out a note
just to see a couple

of the things here, but
like collar projects,

relocation projects,
uh, research, and then

aerial surveys, which
are, you know, I didn't

think about that at
first because RMG just

funded an aerial survey
here in Chilliwack.

Um, those are just some
of the places like I know

someone will ask, where
does the dollars go?

Where does the money
go, those have been some

of the biggest projects
so far, is putting

those things together.

And like for example,
collars, collars are

not cheap, but they
provide a ton of data

to RMG, to the local
biologists, all of that.

So when we're able to
provide funding for

collars, that's huge.

Biologist'a appreciate
that as well.

So can people get
involved with a

collaring project?

That's going to depend,
I think on the area

that you're in and the
biologist I know here

with British Columbia,
generally with a project

like that, they're going
to want to have more

of like the government
employees on with that,

especially I think when
it comes to goats, but

that, that may change
because RMG is pretty

new into BC and we're
still trying to build

those relationships.

We're working on building
those relationships

with these biologists
and maybe down the

road, that is something
that we can get more

people involved in is
putting some collars

on goats and doing
some studies that way.

And I think it'd be
pretty awesome to

have people be able to
volunteer for that but.

No kidding.

Yeah, maybe one day that
that will be a reality.

One of the first
projects that mountain

goat or RMG ever did
was a, a volunteer

survey in the Montana.

Um, now they've done
them in Montana, South

Dakota, Washington,
Utah, Idaho, Colorado.

And then this year,
obviously in British

Columbia this past
year, did the first

ever winter survey.

Okay.

That they had done.

Uh, I heard that the
weather conditions

weren't ideal for that.

And I think it's a
bit of a learning

curve for doing that.

In any time you want to
go into the mountains

at that time of the
year, you're going to.

Right.

There's going to be some
hiccups and you're going

to run into some issues.

It's just the reality
of what it is, but

it's pretty cool to be
doing a winter survey.

Like just getting guys
into the mountains

at that time of the
year is awesome.

Is fun.

It's fun.

And it's hard to do,
like, not a lot of guys

want to sign up to be
in the mountains in

February or March or
when there's six feet

of snow down right.

Right.

And it was kind of the
same for Chilliwack here.

We, it was 43 degrees
at one point when we

were out there, like
it was, it was cooking.

I had, I was kind of
traveling around and

going to visit as
many guys as I could.

And I felt bad for
some of the guys that

were doing those big
climbs because it

was pretty nasty.

I know guys were starting
at two o'clock in the

morning just to try
and avoid the heat so.

Wow.

Yeah.

Now you've got your own
Instagram page as well.

Yeah.

Did you want
to plug that?

Uh, sure it's
just my name.

Jeff Agostinho yeah,
that's just, uh,

yeah where I'm at
is Jeff Agostinho.

Would that be a good
way for people to check

you out and kind of
see some of the hunts

you're doing and see
what you're up to?

Oh yeah, definitely.

People can check
it out on there.

I try and post as many
pictures as I can.

And just recap in
the hunts or posting

pictures of our hunts.

Yeah, there's
lots on there.

And if guys have any
questions like RMGA

related or whatever
related, just feel

free to shoot me a
message on there.

I might not always be
the fastest to respond,

but I'll definitely
get back to you and

try and get you as many
answers as possible.

Oh, Jeff that's
fantastic.

Yeah.

Thank you very much
for being here on The

Silvercore Podcast.

I really appreciate
you taking the time.

Thanks for having me
and having us come on to

talk about Goat Alliance.

I really appreciate that.

I love it.

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