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Beyond the Startup features Atlanta-area business owners and leaders sharing their entrepreneurial journeys. We explore how businesses get started, the challenges of growth, and the lessons learned along the way.
Lliam: You're not gonna own a business
and not go through hard times.
Larry: Correct.
Yeah.
Lliam: they just, they go together, right?
Larry: Yes,
Lliam: they do.
It's not, it's not, great all the time.
Thing- things happen.
You can't have survived this amount
of time without being able to gauge
risk, but I wonder if it's so innate
that you don't realize you're doing it.
Larry: I'm rather, I'm impulsive.
I'll, try anything once.
Okay.
And, and I've always had the
opinion that, if it doesn't
work, we'll, try something else.
Lliam: Welcome to Beyond the Startup.
Today, I have Larry Carver
with Carver & Associates.
He is both the founder and the president
of Carver & Associates, and today we're
gonna be talking about his journey
all the way from founder, all the way
back to when he started that company.
And so today's gonna be a amazing episode.
Stay tuned.
So Larry, I think what would be great
is, can you please introduce yourself?
Larry: Sure.
I'm Larry Carver.
I'm the, owner and founder and
president of Carver & Associates.
We do, FF&E and OS&E procurement
and interior design for hotels.
Lliam: Fantastic.
And tell me, how did you get started
in doing such a thing like that?
Larry: I was very lucky, actually,
and, I needed a job about 50
years ago, to be honest with you.
And, I guess my career started when I
got out of college, and, I needed a job.
And, coincidentally, a, man by the name
of Jo- Jack DeBoer was interviewing,
and, Jack DeBoer is the guy that,
ultimately invented the, the, Residence
Inn and the Candlewood Suites and that.
Okay.
At that time, he was doing,
multifamily housing, and he was
one of the biggest in the, world
actually, next to, a Japanese company.
And so I went to work for him
as a, property manager, and,
worked, did that for about a year.
And, they were doing a project
in Atlanta, and, I had been in,
in Georgia during, when I was in
the Army, and, I loved the trees.
That's nice.
So I wanted to get back to Georgia, so
I finagled a transfer to Atlanta and,
worked on that project, and actually
bought the properties from the contractor.
and, and then when that job was over,
they, they wanted to send me back
to Kansas, and I didn't wanna go.
So-
Lliam: So I- I'm curious I'm trying
to get this straight in my head.
So you went to college, sounds
like you were in the Army.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: Did you have any sense, like you
wanted to get into property management?
Like, or did you just like, "Hey-
Larry: No
⦠Lliam: rent's due on
Tuesday, gotta find a job."
Larry: That was about it, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I got out of school,
I had a business degree, and I
didn't know what to do with it.
And, I've always kind of puddled
around in construction my whole life.
Yeah.
So I thought I would, look into that
area and, Jack DeBoer was hiring.
So, Yeah ⦠yeah, I needed a job.
That
Lliam: was about it.
Needed a job, And so- It sounds like,
actually you sound like a little bit
like my son, Will, who has always
been interested in real estate.
and it's more of a hobby
than anything else.
And ironically, here in about two
weeks he's gonna graduate, High Point
University with a business degree- Oh, wow
as well as a music degree.
And so, it sounds like this was
sort of your situation many years
ago when had just graduated and you
were kinda looking to, like, how
you're gonna get that first job.
Larry: That's exactly right,
Lliam: yeah.
And then you lucked into kind of
finding a job that really kinda
gave you that, that first step on
the ladder, so to speak, right?
Larry: Well, I think I have been
incredibly lucky, and, I just
happened to be in the right place
at the right time more, than once.
And, that's what happened
to me there, with, DeBoer.
And, and then when I got, back to
Atlanta and finished the project
there, once again, I was very lucky.
I, I, didn't wanna go back to Kansas,
so I started looking around Atlanta,
and coincidentally, Cushman was
building, Colony Square in, in Atlanta.
And, I interviewed for the job
and I was hired as a administrator
for their design department.
Lliam: That was quite, that's,
that was quite a big project.
Larry: Oh, it was a huge project.
Yeah.
And, and I had no business
being there, actually.
I didn't know what I was doing, but,
I was lucky to-- I got hired as the
administrator of, their design division
c- a company called Design Atlanta, and,
and once again, I got very lucky.
The, man that hired me, a guy named, Bill
Hendrick, left Cushman and went to, I
think South, South Dakota or someplace
to, to, start a furniture company.
So they made me director of design.
I just happened to be there.
And, I had no idea what I was doing.
and, the, but we had six designers
and, we did all of the tenant
improvements in Colony Square.
We did all the, office
buildings and the retail.
We didn't do the hotel, but we did,
all of the other interior finishes for
him, and, it was a great experience.
as you mentioned, that,
that was a, unique project.
It was the first multi-use project act-
actually ever built in the United States.
Wow.
And it was the first, $100
million mortgage by Prudential.
So it was a great opportunity to
see how that, sort of thing's done.
Lliam: Yeah.
So there were a lot of
firsts there, right?
Yeah.
I have to ask, I'll just have to
challenge you on this, though, right?
I've heard you now say three
times in, gosh, it's a short
conversation, how lucky you were.
And I'm thinking to myself, I
definitely get you gotta be in the
right place at the right time, and
sometimes- Yes ⦠sometimes it's
got nothing to do with you, right?
Larry: That's what happened to me, yeah.
Lliam: But I'm also gonna challenge you.
I think you have to be prepared to be
in the right place at the right time
Larry: Well, you gotta have doors to
knock on, and there were some really
good doors to knock on back then.
in the '70s, Atlanta was a boom town, and,
there was a lot of real estate development
and, and, I just happened to, to be,
knocking on that door at the right time.
Lliam: Prepared to knock
on that door, right?
And to have that door to knock on, right?
Larry: Well, I was willing to do
anything, to be honest with you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
but,
it was a great opportunity for
me because Colony Square was the
hot item in Atlanta, and all the
big companies were moving there.
So I, really got to see firsthand
how they operated and how they set
themselves up and how they worked.
And, so it was just, I
consider it a lucky break.
Lliam: Yeah.
So what do you think, if you kinda think
back on that, what do you think that the
intangibles were of that project, right?
You're, still young in your career.
You've, you've been in the
right place at the right time.
You've got this amazing
opportunity, right?
You probably met some amazing people.
You, to your point, you got to see this
thing from the inside- Yeah ⦠Yeah.
So you got a lot of experience
really pulled in there, and probably
made some great relationships
while you were there too.
Tell me a little bit about how
that project went and how you
really felt, feel like that project
led to your next opportunity.
Larry: Oh, it most definitely did.
when Colony Square was winding down,
the man that ran the construction
and the tenant improvements, for
Cushman was a man named Bill Reid,
and he went to wor- he went to work
for John Portman and Associates.
Portman was, a very well-known
developer and architect, in Atlanta.
And, coincidentally, once again, very
luckily for me, Portman was looking
to get into the hotel business at
that time, and, they were starting
up a company, to do FF&E procurement.
And, they were looking for,
people to join that company, and,
I got, hired.
And, I was hired by a n- a guy
named Lowell Goldman, and, that
was another lucky break because
Lowell came to Portman from Hyatt.
He worked for a company called
Elsters, which was their, technical
services division, and, and
he was a great mentor for me.
He, really taught me the business and,
taught me the value of dealing fairly
with people and, and knowing what
you're doing and all that sort of thing.
And, so I was once again very lucky.
Lliam: Yeah.
Do you f- W- Do you feel like that
was your first real professional
mentor-mentee relationship?
Larry: Yeah, actually, 'cause the restâ¦
Up until that point, I'd been
faking it pretty much, to be honest.
So you were kind of on
your own just- Yeah, I,
Lliam: I, I- The whole fake it
till you make it thing, right?
Larry: Pretty much, yeah.
When I was hired by Cushman, I, couldn't,
I didn't even know how to read a
blueprint, but, but I figured it out.
And, and then when, w- under Lowell
I, learned this very niche business
and, and he, taught me well, and
it was really a, good experience.
And then I got lucky again.
Lowell left and went back to Hyatt,
so they made me president of the
company, and, I just happened to be
in the right place at the right time.
Lliam: Do you think that was because
you were sort of the understudy at
the time and your mentor moves on
and probably gave you some words of
affirmation as he went out the door?
Larry: I would like to think that, yeah.
yeah.
and I was the logical choice, I guess.
Lliam: Yeah.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: Did you stay in touch with Lowell?
Larry: Yeah, we did.
he had a, n- a newsletter that he
put out for Hyatt and, I was at
Portman for eight years, and we
did a lot of Hyatt Regency hotels.
And, and we did a lot of, what
was then Western International,
now it's Westin Hotels.
But,
you After doing, we probably did
15 Hyatt Regencies, and, you get to
meet people and, and this newsletter
kept, kept everybody in touch.
And, it was, a, good
long-term relationship.
Lliam: Awesome.
And I'm curious if you kind
of put yourself in that young
person's seat today, right?
A lot of people don't have mentors,
and the business world, I think,
is very different than it was
in the '70s and the '80s, right?
Where
Larry: there was- Yeah
⦠Lliam: really more of this, you
go to one place and you stay and,
you become part of that company
and, you grow with that company.
A- and the other side of that was that
the company invested in you a little
bit and, provided you some mentorship
opportunities and things like that, right?
But in today's business world, I
don't think that is quite as prevalent
as what it used to be, but I think
that the lessons are still there,
and I'd love for you to talk just a
little bit about the value of having
a mentor, particularly when you're
young in your career like that.
Larry: Oh, it was very valuable.
But more than that, really, just being
with the Portman organization was a,
tremendous opportunity because they had,
They had all the disciplines in-house.
They had architecture, engineering,
interior design, development.
He was a developer, and, they were getting
into the operation, part of it also.
So I got to see how all these
pieces worked together, and
that was amazingly lucky.
And, and Lowell was a great teacher.
The only regret, well, he
left too soon, actually.
I wish he'd left-- he stayed- I
wish he'd stayed another year or
two- Yeah ⦠to be honest with you.
Yeah.
Lliam: Fantastic.
And so as you continue to walk
down this path, what happened next?
Larry: Well, I started
my company in 1983, and,
it was a scary thing to,
to step out on your own.
But, but, the opportunities were
there, and, so, so I gave it a try.
And our first job was, an
1,100-room hotel in San Francisco.
And,
Lliam: That's a big job
⦠Larry: it was a big job.
And, it, but that's
what we did at Portman.
We did nothing but big convention
hotels, 800, 900 rooms, 1,000 rooms.
So that was what I fashioned my company.
I fashioned it after Portman.
And, so we started out concentrating
on that kind of property.
And, shortly after I started my
company, a f- a, lady that has
become a very good friend of mine,
a lady named Ronnie Bray, joined me
and we set up an office in Atlanta.
And, we got, Canal Place in New Orleans,
which is a Trusthouse Forty hotel.
It was just a lucky time to be in the
business because things were happening.
A lot of hotels were being done.
And, we also started up a, an
office in, in Boston, in Acton,
actually, with, a lady named Toni
Rook and, and Jillian Van Dresser.
so, We just, were very lucky.
I think the first year we hit $100
million in spend was in 1987, and,
so we were just having a great time.
and,
I think in, in, in about 1986,
we were, we, Japan Airlines
came in with, Nikko Hotels,
and, we did, several of those.
And, the designer on, the Nikko
Chicago and also the San Francisco
hotel was a guy named Frank Minges.
we'd done a lot of work with Hirsch
Bedner, which was Howard Hirsch at the
time, and, and Frank was a great designer.
And, we became friends, and we
started a design firm, called Minges
Design in 1986, I think, five or six.
And, Jillian Van Dresser joined that firm.
She was a designer.
And, we had some very nice projects.
we did the Hyatt Regency
Albuquerque, Caesars Palace.
He did a couple of the Royal Viking,
ships, and, it was a very nice company.
Lliam: Yeah.
Larry: And,
Lliam: I have a question for you.
If we think back to when you
started your first company, right?
Because up to this point, you had, kind
of worked your way up through the ranks.
You even got to be the
president in a couple places.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: But it wasn't yet your money.
It wasn't, yet your company, right?
And so I'm really, I'd love to
hear, what was going through your
mind as you're like, "Gee, I'm
gonna start my own company," right?
It, we, all know it's a
little bit scary, right?
but there's that thing, that push,
that want, that need, that desire,
that thing that makes you move from,
I'm, I'm tired of being the big dog
to I'm ready to be my own dog, right?
What, was that for you?
Larry: I, don't work well in a
corporate environment, to be honest.
and, I, I was spending more time
telling people what I was doing
than I was spending doing it.
And, and I thought I could do it better.
I was kinda cocky at the time.
And, so,
a couple of opportunities came along
and, I decided to give it a try.
Lliam: Okay.
and at the time when you started this new
business, I mean, did you have any money?
Did you finance everything?
No.
Didâ¦
Like, how, like where,
how'd you get started?
Larry: That's one thing about
this business, it doesn't take
a lot of money to get into it.
I think I started it with
$500 and a rented desk.
Lliam: Okay.
Larry: And, but all you need
is a client and a, computer.
And, so,
Portman had, th- back, this was in
the '70s, and, no, in the '80s, early
'80s, and, laptops were not well-known,
so Portman had this giant mainframe
computer and, and, we had programmed
a, little system to handle our work.
And when w- when I started my
company, I got, the same programmer-
to do, to build a system for us.
And, and that let us, I think, get out
in front of the competition a little
bit and gave us a little credibility.
And,
and plus we had s- we had two
really nice projects, and, and
that helped our credibility also.
Lliam: yeah.
So in your case, it, sounds like You're
the president of this company, you're
like, "Hey, I can do better than this.
I've got some ideas.
I, I wanna give it a shot," right?
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: And then what it sounds like
to me is you had a couple of people,
couple of customers who were willing to
give you your first break and say- Yeah
"Hey, we'll go with you."
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: Right?
Larry: Yeah, that's exactly right.
Lliam: Yeah.
Larry: Yeah.
And also the Canal Place
one, that was Ronnie Bray.
she had that relationship, and,
a- and, but that's what this
business is really, is relationships.
Lliam: Yeah.
I was just thinking about that because
you've said that probably four or five
times in, i- in our conversation, right?
"I built a relationship.
We had a relationship.
We had a customer."
Yeah.
"I had a mentor," right?
These are all relationships.
And-
Larry: Yeah
⦠Lliam: I think it really just points to
the value of these relationships that
you build, and unfortunately, it takes
time to build relationships, right?
And so, when, you're 18 years old,
when you're 20 year old, you probably
don't have these relationships.
And I think that one of the things
that we don't impress as much as
maybe we should on our young people
is the value of putting your places
and spaces in a, i- where you can
start to build these relationships.
Because even if this is, not something
you can take advantage of or contribute
to today, at some point, you're, gonna
find some synergies with somebody
that is based on a relationship that
you didn't think about at the time.
Larry: I couldn't have
said it better myself.
Yeah.
itâ¦
That is so true because,
Especially when in, in our
business where you're dealing with
multiple vendors, you're always
gonna need a favor down the road.
And, and, we've had occasion to call upon,
some of our vendors, some of our, some of
our competitors actually, and, and, and
work together to, to accomplish something.
And, yeah, we, couldn't
do it without them.
Lliam: Yeah.
I can remember in my own career
when I was, gosh, I must have been
like 23 or 24 years old, right?
And at the time I was working for a
company that, that, really serviced for
Fortune 100 companies, in the IT space.
And I looked at all of the senior people
above me, and they all had relationships
that went back 15 or 20 years.
Yeah.
And I can remember even to this day
thinking, "Wow, it'd be so amazing.
This guy knows everybody and he's
got all these different relationships
with all of these, large companies."
And, I'm 23, 24 years old.
I don't know anybody, right?
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: A- and, I remember being
enamored by that and being
really curious about that.
And, here I am at 54 now, right?
And I'm looking back on that and I'm
thinking, about all the relationships that
I have and all of the customers that we
have, built over this, expanse of time.
And I know for us, we have, a lot of
customers that have been with us a decade.
We have some customers now that have
been with us for more than two decades.
And really-
Larry: Yeah
⦠Lliam: a customer is really
just a relationship, right?
Larry: Oh, yeah.
Lliam: A- and so, I'm now in
that sort of senior stage where
I have these relationships.
But I can remember in my early
20s thinking, "Gosh, I wonder,
how did these people get all
these relationships," right?
Larry: That was another thing I
learned from Lowell Goldman, watching
him deal with people that he'd had
a relationship with for 30 years,
and, and, how he dealt with them.
and it was a very friendly relationship.
And, you become friends and,
and, they want to help you
and, and you wanna help them.
And so it's, it just makes
for a good life, actually.
Yeah.
Lliam: Yeah.
Fantastic.
So, you've, you've taken the first plunge.
You've started your own business.
Y- you got two customers to, to,
come along with you- Yeah ⦠and
help you in that endeavor.
1,100 rooms is not a small
project to start with.
I gotta say, that's pretty amazing.
And, you're kind of going down this
path and the big difference though
is this time it's your money, right?
This time you're- Yeah ⦠you're on
the hook for payroll and everything-
Yeah ⦠else that goes with it, right?
And so this is, where, this is where
the rubber he- hits the road, right?
Larry: Yeah.
It, it, As I mentioned, we
were rolling along in the '80s.
It was great until, the
savings and loan debacle.
And, when, President Reagan changed the
taxes in '86, prior to that, the, hotels
were a tax write-off, most of them.
And then they started having to
make money, and that's when our
clients started to go bankrupt.
Lliam: Oh.
Larry: And we had, four or five
clients go bankrupt on us that, at
that time, '89 or '90, whatever it was.
And, so we, we had a very hard time
getting through that, and, we cut
back to the bone and, just hung on
for dear life and, until finally in
1993, things started to pick back up.
But, yeah, it, it, keeps
you awake at night.
It
Lliam: really has.
there's an interesting thoughts around
that I'm listening to as you're explaining
that, and the number one thought I'm
thinking about is you're not gonna own a
business and not go through hard times.
Larry: Correct.
Lliam: Yeah.
they just, they go together, right?
Yes, they do.
It's not, it's not- Yeah
it's not great all the time.
Thing, things happen, and
it's not necessarily because
you did anything, right?
The changing of the tax code, it, you had
nothing- Yeah ⦠to do with that, right?
But all of a sudden, your customers
are having a hard time, and if they're
going bankrupt, you, might get pulled
into the middle of that, right?
Larry: it was scary.
Yeah.
Lliam: Yeah.
Yeah.
and then you think about, the strategy
of how do you take a step back, right?
And I know for me, one of the things that,
that I have found through my career a- and
I'm very cognizant about it even today,
is when something happens At the time that
you realize something is happening, you've
probably got 10 different options, right?
But the problem is that none of
us like any of those 10 options.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: And so what we do is
we hang on a little longer.
And what we find very shortly is
we don't have 10 options anymore.
We have eight options, six options,
three options, and inevitably what
happens is you're down to that one
option where now you don't have a choice.
That's the option you're taking.
But when you think about that after it's
all said and done, what you realize is
that last option was the one you would
not have wanted to take when you had
the other nine on the table, right?
And so- Yeah.
Yeah ⦠really being thoughtful about
realizing early that we're gonna have
to do something, and you're gonna
have to be thoughtful about which of
these 10 you can exercise today, and
knowing that every delay is gonna
cost you options down the road, right?
And I think anybody who's
gone down that cycle,
Larry: Yeah, at that point in time, there
was nothing going on, and, and that wasâ¦
I, we used to get, We traveled all
the time, and I used to get, multiple
tickets on Eastern and Delta back.
You could fly anywhere in their
system, and I remember I had a
ticket in my briefcase for a year.
There was no place to go.
'Cause nobody was doing anything.
Yeah.
So, it was, it, was tough.
And, I think luckily I had a, friend
of mine that, we had, I think, like
two jobs or something like that.
It was enough barely
to keep the lights on.
But, we just hunkered down
and, and, stayed, in it,
until things picked up again.
Lliam: Yeah.
And so I'm curious, I'm assuming
during this time you probably
had to, retrain some staff and
really pull in a little bit.
Larry: At that time we onlyâ¦
We were down to three people.
Lliam: Yeah.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: and where were
you when you started?
Larry: we- Probably 15, to 14 or 15, yeah.
In the three offices, Yeah,
Lliam: yeah.
So you have 14 or 15 people and
to retract down to three people.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: But that work, you know-
Larry: Well,
Lliam: it- It doesn't all go away
⦠Larry: it alLowelld us
to get through it, yeah.
Lliam: Yeah.
That was
Larry: about it.
Lliam: And that's what it is, right?
You're, you're- Yeah ⦠you're trying
to figure out how you're gonna make
it through the other side, right?
Larry: Exactly, yeah.
Lliam: And I don't know what your
experience is, but in my experience,
every time something bad happens,
it forces us to get stronger.
It forces us to get better.
It forces us to sharpen our blade.
And, inevitably, I feel like it was
that thing that ended up propelling
us to the next level, even though it
was really uncomfortable at the time.
Larry: Yeah, it, was,
definitely uncomfortable.
But we,
we got lucky again.
we, were at, we were able to capture,
the Shangri-La Taipei in Taiwan.
And, we had done some work with, when
I was with Portman in Singapore, and
so we had a few relationships and
we were able to capture that job.
And frankly, that's the one that pulled
us out of the downwards, downward spiral.
And, and also in 1993, we went to Korea.
I met a guy, a man, named Chang Ko.
He was an artist and worked for
an art company in, Los Angeles.
And, he had, been involved in the
development of Koreatown in, LA.
And, Korea had just changed their laws
where they could hire outside consultants.
Prior to that, you had to be Korean.
So Chang wanted to establish
a business in Seoul.
So, we formed a partnership and, set up a
business in Seoul, and, and had some very
nice jobs during the, during that decade.
we did the Westin Chosun, we did the
Marriott, we did a couple of resorts.
It was, a good time.
but a- and then, and our
business kinda ebbs and flows.
It's, peaks and valleys.
And the '90s, it was on an upward
swing, and, and we were able to,
strengthen our, group and, and we
were able to get some nice projects.
not only in Korea, but also, we,
we, had, moved our office from
San Francisco to Las Vegas and,
we got the Tropicana in Las Vegas.
And, and casinos are a
whole different world.
but, we, we got established in that
market and, and it, worked out okay.
Lliam: Yeah.
So it's fascinating to me how you've not
only done projects here in the United
States, but, now we're talking about
projects in Korea, we're talking about,
projects in, Asia, all over the place.
How has the cultural component of now
going from being almost an American
business to an international business-
Larry: It really doesn't matter,
where the property is located.
the processes are the same.
And, a- and I had-- As I
mentioned, we'd done some stuff
with Portman over, over there.
And, we learned that really the, the only
problems that you're liable to incur that
are unique are logistics, of course, and
sometimes the, currency, the finance.
But it's that the process of
actually doing the job are, the same.
I've always felt like we could do, a
hotel anywhere on the planet, as long
as we had the financing and, and,
we knew how to get the stuff there.
and,
Lliam: So did you ever run into,
like, either language, issues or maybe
cultural, differences, things like that?
Larry: That wasn't-- That was
something that was kind of surprising.
We'd never had any cultural issues at all.
ev- virtually everybody we worked
with, I mean, whether it was in
Asia or the Middle East or India,
The people there are just like us.
I mean, they just want to have a, a
good life and a job and take care of
their kids and, that sort of thing.
we never had any cultural issues.
And, working with Chang in Korea and, and,
we had a partner in, in the Middle East, a
guy by the name of, Iqbal, Muhammad Iqbal.
and, we became friends, and, it, And
their children were doctors and lawyers,
and, they're just normal people.
Lliam: Yeah.
So people are people world over.
Larry: Yeah, they really are.
At least that's my opinion.
Lliam: Okay.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: Well, fantastic.
And so, as we kinda continue down
your story, we've now had our, first
business, we've had our first success,
we've had our first tragedy, right?
It's like a love story, right?
Larry: Yeah.
Really.
Lliam: We've had-
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: We've had our first tragedy.
we've recovered, right?
A- and we're on to the races.
So tellâ¦
I'm, curious, Larry, you gotta
tell me, what happened next?
Larry: Well, actually, I, I, missed one.
we got into the Middle East, w- well,
n- no, actually, in, in, in the year
2000, we got into the, turnkey business.
Up to that point, we had always
worked on a fee for services model.
And, there was a company in, south
Georgia, a company called Allegiant,
that, catered to smaller hotels,
Holiday Inns and that kind of thing.
And, butâ¦
And they had a different model.
they would buy the product
and mark it up and resell it.
And, they were a very nice company.
They were doing about, oh,
$230 million a year, I think.
Lliam: Yeah.
Larry: And, they were bought
out by the J- by the Japanese.
The Japanese people, the Jap- Japan
company bought them And, they were
basically a sales company, and, the J-
the Japanese thought that the salesmen
were making too much money, so they cut
their commissions drastically and put
them on salary, and, all the salesmen
left like rats from a sinking ship.
And, so we hired 13 of them.
Lliam: Wow.
Larry: And, we set up an office
in Griffin, Georgia, 'cause
that's where they were all from.
And, we, we got into the design
business, interior design business,
and, we started up a turnkey division,
basically concentrating on smaller hotels.
And, the budgets were relatively small.
They were between half a
million and $2 million.
but, but we would take title to
the product, which means we were
on the hook for the whole thing.
And, it was a little scary.
It took us about seven years
before we made a profit at-
Wow ⦠that business, but, itâ¦
After that, it, was very lucrative.
It, it's, it's, a good business.
Lliam: Yeah.
So one of the things that strikes me as
I hear you talking is just the ability
to evaluate, quantify risk, right?
Because now you've gone into
this, i- into this new business.
You had some foresight.
You're like, "Hey, sinking ship."
Some people are gonna be
like, "Sinking ship, go away.
I don't want any part of that."
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: But you're like,
"Hey, opportunity," right?
Because these guys were
printing money over there.
They were doing a fantastic
Larry: job- They were
doing great ⦠right?
Yeah.
Lliam: a- and you saw that
opportunity, and you, it, seems
like you reached out with both hands
and you hired 13 of these guys.
Thir- 13's not, a small number of people.
Larry: No.
It, it, wasn't, and, actually, about 11
of them didn't work out, but it- but, it
still was, it, was a good move for us.
And, and after we got through
the initial, shock and it, it
turned out to be a good decision.
Lliam: Great decision.
And so talk to me a little bit about
your experience and maybe some advice
that you would give somebody in their
business when they're looking at risk.
How do they know if this is a risk worth
taking or a risk worth walking away from?
Or like, what advice would you share?
Larry: I'm probably not a good
person to, to, give advice on that.
I, I, I'm rather, I'm impulsive.
I'll, try anything once.
Okay.
And, and I've always had the
opinion that, if it doesn't
work, we'll, try something else.
But,
yeah, I mean, we-- I got
into the art business.
We had an art gallery in Sausalito, in,
the late '80s, and, and, That was just,
just seemed like a fun thing to do.
And, we had that for about six years.
And, Frank, Frank Mingus, we
provided art for some of his hotels
and, and it worked out, okay.
but, so if somebody's asking me howâ¦
I don't-- That's my problem.
I don't gauge risk so much.
We never really made any money at the
art gallery, b- we about broke even
at the end, but we had a lot of fun.
Lliam: Yeah.
Do you think it's
you can't have survived this amount of
time without being able to gauge risk.
But I wonder if it's so innate that you
don't realize you're doing it, right?
And maybe the answer isn't that you
reach out and study it and decide
whether you're gonna do it or not,
'cause what I'm hearing from you is
like, "Hey, we'll try anything once."
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: But I think that there
has to be some sense of, hey, but
we'll also know when to cut it off
Larry: Well,
in, the, art gallery business,
yeah, we, knew there wasn't any
future there, so we did shut it down.
Yeah.
I had a freight company
also in the mid-'80s.
We started a logistics company
called Transport Control.
But I wouldn't let them make a profit,
because we were a fiduciary, we were agent
only for the clients, and, I wouldn't let
them book freight that was more expensive
than th- the vendor could give us.
So, so, that lasted about two and
a half years, something like that.
But we, we shut it down because we
had a conflict of interest, actually.
so, sometimes you, you, make a
move that, that doesn't work out.
Lliam: Yeah.
Well, I think we're all
gonna do that, right?
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: I'm also curious, as I'm
thinking my way through your story,
y- you're trying lots of different things
and you're trying to figure out, what's
the, thing that's gonna work out, right?
And, like we talked about, sometimes
you're gonna find some risks along
the way, sometimes you're gonna
pull those in, sometimes you're
gonna be oblivious to them, right?
But as you're doing that, I know
for us, for me personally, was
the education about money, right?
And that is when, I was
young and I was justâ¦
I was an engineer, right?
Yeah.
So I started off, I
was an engineer, right?
If you had broken things, I knew
how to fix broken things, right?
But I didn't know anything about sales.
I didn't know anything about marketing.
I didn't know anything about finances.
I didn't come from a, a, family that
was particularly entrepreneurial.
my wife, her parents, one was an
auto mechanic, one was a secretary.
And so we didn't- Yeah ⦠have a sphere
of influence that we could pull on, right?
And if I look and I think about my
own journey, one of the things that
you figure out is a little bit about
money, a little bit about how it works,
a little bit about, how to be smart
with how you buy things and how you pay
for things and, taxes and everything
else that goes along with it, right?
but I didn't know any of
these things when we started.
Larry: I didn't either.
I'm not sure I still do, actually.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I, finance was my
worst subject actually.
I,
I, liked, we were buyers.
That's what we did.
We spent, oh gosh, b- in, we had
several years where we spent $350
million of other people's money.
but we had a process, and, as long as you
went through the process and you, you got
competitive bids and you presented them
properly and, you vetted the vendor and
all of that sort of thing, it was, it was
a, rather foolproof system theoretically.
but, as far as,
having knowledge about the finances,
I was not very good at that-
Lliam: Okay.
Larry: Fair ⦠to be honest with you.
Lliam: So did you find somebody
to fill that role for you?
Larry: Yeah.
I had aâ¦
we had, our, we had a CPA, that started
with me, when I started my company, and
she was with us for, oh gosh, 20 years.
And then, and then,
we, we got another one and, and I,
pretty much left the accounting to them.
and, we just did the work, and that
was what we concentrated on was
doing the work and doing it as well
as we could, as good as we could.
Lliam: Yeah.
And I think that there's a
lesson there, too, right?
Not all of us can be good at
everything 'cause we're humans, right?
There are things that we're just
innately not good at, and- Yeah
for me it's paperwork, right?
If you, if you- Yeah ⦠anything
that requires lots of paper,
that's not for me, right?
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: I- I'm just not that guy, right?
And, so one of the lessons that
I've learned is to, really try to be
cognizant about what are those things
I'm just not naturally gifted at, and
then finding someone who, enjoys it.
and I think one of the realizations
that I had, in my journey was
everything I don't like, there's
somebody out there- There's somebody
who will, yeah ⦠who lives for it.
They love it.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's just on me, that's all, right?
Larry: No, you'reâ¦
Yeah.
And- That, I'm the same way.
Lliam: Yeah.
And so you gotta find
that person who's like-
Larry: Yeah
⦠" Lliam: Paperwork.
Oh, I love it.
How much you got?"
Yeah.
A- and I'm like, "I got all you need.
How much you need?"
And I think that's one of those
lessons that you learn, too, is,
don't try to be good at something
that you're not, because you're human.
There's just gonna be things
you're just not good at, but there
are people who love doing it.
Larry: Yeah.
That's true.
Especially in our turnkey business,
design was a big part of it, and
I don't know a thing about design.
But we, found some very good
designers and, and they filled that
role and, and did a good job at it
and, and it worked out well for us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lliam: So that's, pretty awesome.
And so now it sounds like in our story
we're expanding out into other places.
Some of these places, Larry, I gotta tell
you, they're unexpected places, right?
We're- Yeah ⦠now we're into
freight companies and all kinds ofâ¦
Larry: I really- Well, it's
all a part of our business.
Yeah.
We, Iâ¦
When we had that freight
company, it helped us a lot.
It helped us do our work.
But, but the business model didn't
work, and so we had to close it down.
But,
everything that we did was, a part
of what was needed to open a hotel.
Lliam: Yeah.
Yeah.
And so where does that bring you next?
what happened after this?
Larry: Well, of course 2001 happened.
And, that stopped everything.
And, We, during the savings and loan deal,
we, got rid of everybody, pretty much.
and we didn't have the staff
when things picked up again.
So at 2001, we decided we were
gonna try to keep our people.
And, and we did.
we kept them through all of
that, and, it was very painful.
But, it was, good because when business
picked up, as it inevitably would, we had
the staff to, to get in front of the line
and, actually do some good work thatâ¦
during those, that time.
And we did great until the saving-- until
the, the financial crisis of 2008, then
it was the same thing all over again.
And, that was a very hard time, and
we just barely made it through it.
and through 2009, '10, '11, were horrible.
And then 2012 started to pick
up a little get-- a little bit.
And then in 2013â¦
we had a great run between 2012 and 2019.
And that's when we got
into the Middle East.
We were approached by, a company in Saudi
Arabia called Sleep High Mattress Company.
It was a public company, and
they wanted to, to get into
the, to the, hotel, business.
And so we joined them.
we joined the part-- We formed
a partnership with them, and,
we went over, to, to, to there.
And we did that for about a
year and a half, maybe two
years, and a year and a half.
And, and then they were bought out.
A new o- the new owner came in and
bought Sleep High, and they didn't
wanna be in that business anymore.
So we said, "Okay, well,
we'll shake hands and, leave."
And, so there we were.
We were into Saudi Arabia
about a year and a half.
We didn't know what we were doing.
But we had a, we had a booth
at the, Dubai Hotel Show.
And, we had made a
decision prior to the show.
We said, "Okay, if we don't have a
project by September, we're out of here.
We're, gonna go back home."
And, during the show, a, guy by the
name of Muhammad Iqbal came up to
the booth, and, and a guy named James
Dubois was manning the booth for us.
And, he asked, what we did and how
we did it, and he explained it.
And, he said, "Well, I
wanna go to Atlanta."
I said, "Oh, sure, come on."
And, so he came and, he w- he had this
grand vision of wanting to start a,
business in, the Middle East, Dubai
and Saudi Arabia, doing what we do.
And so, once again, I'm impulsive.
We-- "Sure, why not?"
We j- and so we formed a partnership, and,
he hired like 20 people and, we
went all over the Middle East.
We went in virtually
every country over there.
And,
We were doing pretty, we were doing
well and, un- until I think it
was 2019, and then COVID happened.
there you go again.
so we were on our way to, we were, we on
a trip to, we were gonna go to London, and
then to Dubai, Saudi Arabia, and India.
We had an, an office in India.
And,
no sooner did we land in, London
than, Trump closed the airport.
Oh, wow.
COVID happened, and so we could--
we barely got out of there.
So, and we were on our way
to sign a deal for 11 hotels.
It was really, really this
was, gonna be the big deal.
But, but, COVID just totally
stopped everything again.
And, so we,
we once again barely made it through.
Yeah.
and, it was a hard, a very hard time.
but once things started to loosen up,
in, 2023 or by 2023 and '24, it, it
exploded actually because the brands
had put the stop to the franchisees.
They wouldn't let them
renovate their hotels.
And then when, everything
started loosening up,
they, made them get out there
and so the business was crazy.
it, and so we, we, went through,
'23 and '4 and '5 and here we are.
Lliam: Wow.
That's quite an amazing story, right?
Larry: It, was a, it
was an adventure, yeah.
Lliam: And you had, gosh-
four or five times where you could
have just said, "Hey, I, I'm gonna go
work for someone else," or, "I'm done,"
or, this one's gonna get us," right?
And in each of those cases,
what I saw was perseverance.
What I saw was, how are we
gonna get through this, right?
And,
Larry: Well, yeah, but also,
I looked at the company as,
my, my, my livelihood, And, we
did everything we could do to
keep the company alive, Because
we knew it was gonna get better.
If we could get through this-
Lliam: Sure
⦠Larry: it's gonna get better, and,
and it can be a really good business.
So we just, we just hung in there.
Lliam: Yeah.
A- and have done a really good job.
not only in what I see
of you guys today, but,
this has been quite educational
for me just, understanding your
past and your story arc And,
whenever I sit down with an entrepreneur
and you listen to their story and you,
kind of listen to all of the crazy
things that they've gone through, right?
It's-
Larry: Yeah
⦠Lliam: gosh, and there's so many
of us could have given up, right?
And I, say, to people who ask me
all the time, and I, think about
my own story and, I've been doing
this now for about 35 years, right?
And I think about my own story and I ask
myself this one simple question, and that
is, "If I knew what I knew now today-
Larry: Yeah
Lliam: would I do it all over again?"
And I think for the average person
they'd be like, "Oh, heck yeah,"
'cause look where you are now, right?
But, when you really think about that's
a tougher question than, you might think.
Larry: Yeah, but I, once again, don't
work well in a, corporate world,
and, I just like being my own boss.
That was, what kept me going, I
think, 'cause I couldn't imagine
going to work for somebody else.
Lliam: Yeah.
That's, I'm right there with you.
I, have a hard time with, the corporate
structure and the corporate politics.
Larry: Yeah.
Lliam: That, that's not for me, right?
Larry: Yeah,
Lliam: But, gosh, I think about
the birthdays that I missed.
I think about the trips that I were on.
I think about-
Larry: Yeah,
Lliam: just- ⦠the, times
where we got paid last, right?
Larry: Oh, yeah, always.
Lliam: Yeah.
When you think about all these
different things and at some point
you, you wondering, like, "Gee, gosh,"
to have that stable paycheck, right?
Have someone else make these decisions.
there is some attraction to
that at some level, right?
and unfortunately then the next new shiny
things come along and you're like, "Oh,
yeah, but we can make this work," right?
Larry: Yeah, I mean, it,
it's a challenge and, you just,
you just ⦠Once again, I couldn't
go to work for somebody else.
that, that was just off the charts.
I couldn't e- I couldn't
even think about that.
Lliam: Awesome.
So I'd love for you to spend just a
second thinking about, that, that young
20 pers- 20-something person today who's
thinking about starting a business.
Maybe that person who's in the
middle of their 2008 crisis today.
And they're thinking about, "Gee,
gosh," "Are we, gonna make thisâ¦
through it?"
And I'd love to hear what would be
some advice that maybe you would
give to, these younger generation?
Larry: Find something you like.
I mean, if you, you, gotta, you,
gotta like what you're doing.
And,
I,
I really feel lucky that I got into
the hospitality industry because
it is a very friendly industry.
It's not a cutthroat business
like retail or manufacturing or
anything like that, where you'll
kill your neighbor for a nickel.
I mean, we're good friends with
all of our competitors, and
we go on vacation together.
We, we compare notes.
It's, a very nice business to be in.
So actually, find, something
you like is, would be my advice.
And, if I didn't like it, then I'd
certainly would've, gotten out of it.
But,
it's a, it's an, it's a good community.
the designers and architects, a
lot of talented people, and, I
like being around talented people.
And, so, the, idea is how is,
how do we make it work rather
than look for something else?
that was kinda how I looked at it.
Lliam: Yeah.
Fantastic.
Larry, I really appreciate you joining
us and, sharing all of your wisdom.
And, I'm sure that there's somebody
out there today that can reallyâ¦
they're living your story, right?
Yeah.
Or, because, the reality of it
is we all own these businesses.
We're all trying to figure
out, what are we doing.
N- none of us know what we're doing.
I m- I mean, we're all
trying to figure it out.
And, I think that, a- as we all are going
through our careers, to have somebody,
to, kind of look back and, to give back a
little bit and to think about that, weâ¦
I really appreciate you, you
joining us and doing that for us.
Larry: Oh, this is great.
I really appreciate it,
because I probablyâ¦
In our company, I'm the one
that calls you the most because
I'm the, least technically, a
proficient person in our group.
And, you guys have, have kept
us afloat for a long time,
and I'm grateful for that.
Lliam: I appreciate that.
Larry: Thank you.
Lliam: Thanks, Larry.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.