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TTalk: Beyond the Field serves as a platform to showcase the incredible talent, dedication, and perseverance that our Tulane student-athletes possess. TTalk goes beyond the confines of conventional sports podcasts. Through the ancient are of storytelling, we are developing historical records of our experiences as student-athletes. We celebrate the achievements of our athletes, both on and off the field. Together, we uplift one another, inspire future generations, and create a legacy that transcends time. Join us, as we celebrate the indomitable spirit of New Orleans and the transformative power of Tulane University.
The TClub is an affinity group, of the Tulane Alumni Association, made up of alumni who are former student-athletes.
00:00 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Welcome to T-Talk, where Tulane athletes get to talk about their experiences at Tulane and beyond the field. Today, our special guest is Mr James McKinley. He was a defensive back for Tulane back in the 80s. He had the opportunity to play in was it the Independence Bowl?
00:23 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah.
00:23 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Yep and caught a couple of interceptions in the Independence Bowl and got his name to stick around on some records, so we're really excited to have him here today. So welcome, james.
00:36 - James McKinley (Guest)
Thank you, Carmen.
00:37 - Carmen Jones (Host)
My pleasure so good, so we really just want to get right into it, james. What was it like growing up as little James, where are you from?
00:48 - James McKinley (Guest)
Wow. Well, I'm from the south side of Chicago, single mom. I had two older brothers, older sister, little sister and it was fun. It was fun, challenging, fun, it was fun, challenging. Had some wonderful people in my life coming through, went to CVS High School, chicago Vocational Famous for Dick Buckus, juwan Howard, bernie Mac went there. Wow, you know you get a lot of guys come out of that school. Back then it was a powerhouse high school and I think right now they're looking to shut it down because of funding.
01:32 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So unfortunate. What was some of your experiences in high school? Did you play sports early? When did you really get into it and what was it like playing sports in Chicago at that time?
01:37 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, good question, good question. I fell in love three times and I'll talk about this. First time I fell in love was with my skateboard Okay, and I still ride my skateboard today when I go to the park and work out. The second time I fell in love was with football. Watching Walter Payton and Chicago Bears do their thing on Sunday, and I said I want to be just like Payton.
02:00 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So did you have the opportunity to go to games?
02:03 - James McKinley (Guest)
actually, I never went to a Chicago Bears game. I did see CVS play St Rita in the Chicago State Championship in Soldier Field and the reason why I never went to it because it was so cold. So I didn't play tackle football until my junior year in high school. I didn't put pads football until my junior year in high school.
02:29 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Oh wow, what were you doing before then? What was fun at school?
02:36 - James McKinley (Guest)
Because it was a vocational school. You know, I was a machine shop major, Okay, and you jumped around from trades to trade, Right, and school was I think we had 4,000 students there. Wow yeah, CVS it was at an old air kind of airfield airline hangar, so we had aviation class there, obviously, and there was a lot to do and just trying to stay out of trouble. And there was a lot to do and just trying to stay out of trouble. Trying to stay out of trouble.
03:06 - Carmen Jones (Host)
How did that work out?
03:08 - James McKinley (Guest)
It worked out pretty good. I'm still here.
03:12 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So I kind of remember as you came to school you were like really muscular. When did you get into working out and taking that super serious?
03:21 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, like I mentioned, we had some good people in our family my mom I call him my stepfather. He lived with us. My little sister, you know, was born through them and he was military and he was strict in regards to calisthenics and I gravitated toward it and I gravitated toward it and I enjoyed competing and it lit the competitive fire in me, along with my older brothers brother Norman, let him rest in peace, and my brother Mark is still with us. We used to compete a lot, and you know. Then, when you're in elementary school and you do your physical fitness test and you have to do push-ups, they got tired of me doing push-ups Stop, I'm tired of watching you do 100 push-ups like it was nothing and then you run your 40 and it's too fast. So we all were the fastest and the strongest in the school because of our upbringing.
04:18
And when I got to high school, we started, you know, freshman getting weights. And then I started lifting weights when I turned 13. And I was like, whoa, this is pretty good, this is fun. I like the way it makes you feel and I've always been short. I've always been real small and fought a lot coming up, you know, because of you know, guys try to pick on you and then they get embarrassed because they let this little dude beat them up. They never knew that I had a big brother. They let this little dude beat him up. They never knew that I had a big brother. We used to battle every day and it was fun.
04:48
You know, I enjoyed the grind. I enjoyed that type of I don't know that environment. It was fun, you know, and I think that's where I got my grit from. You know, that's where I got my grit. So I put my pads on in my junior year in high school and I was like, whoa, this is different. I remember guys, cleveland came up and he hit me so hard I was like I don't know if this is for me.
05:12 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Was that the first day? It was the first day of practice, oh my gosh.
05:17 - James McKinley (Guest)
And I shook it off and I said man, that guy can hit. They said, yeah, he said so. One of my buddies, delonious Keys he was a really good football player, a real good friend of mine too, and he said what you need to do is you got to meet force with force? I said oh, so I tried Next time. I said, oh, I see what you mean, because I just absorbed it and, oh my goodness. And from that point on it was I became a pretty good tackler. I was always a pretty good tackler because I played a lot of fan-like football. And then my senior year come around. I wasn't a starter, I never started in high school.
05:53 - Carmen Jones (Host)
I mean, you came out so late too right.
05:55 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, I was late bloomer and I never was a starter, but I was a competitor. I was, I wouldn't say an impact player, but I ran down special teams made tackles. However, our last game against Lane Tech in the quarterfinals and I didn't start that game, obviously, see the route. So they ran a 10-yard out. They call it a five route now. He caught it, I hit him, they ran it again. I stepped in front of it and took it to the house for a touchdown, okay, and I was like whoa, that felt great. And then you got my big old head on the Sunday Sun-Times paper but we lost the game and that was the end of my high school career.
06:46
But the love of the game was so rich and in my heart I didn't care where I wanted to play. So I walked on to my local junior college team, okay, thornton Community College, which is now, I believe, south Holland and worked out there and I was a safety in freshman year. They had some really good athletes there and I was a safety in freshman year. They had some really good athletes there and I was a starter. I worked my way into a starting position. My work ethic was above my competition. I kept leaning on that and kept studying the game.
07:18
And then I saw a billboard of Lester Hayes in that Nike billboard where he's down low with his cage on with just looking like, Ooh, I say I'm going to do that. And then I saw him play. I said, oh my God. So I fell in love with playing corner. Okay, I fell in love with playing cornerback and I switched positions and I didn't have technique. My technique was whoop your butt technique. My technique was whoop your butt, beat you up. I was fast and strong and physical and that's what I did. And then I became an All-American corner Awesome, yeah.
07:53 - Carmen Jones (Host)
And I was you know pretty well recruited coming out of junior college. So what were some of the other schools?
08:02 - James McKinley (Guest)
that were looking at you, that you remember. You had schools like Northern Iowa. I took my visit there, USC looked at me, but then they found out how tall I was and they changed their mind and that seemed to be like the gone thing right. And then let me back up a little bit. After my freshman year there was a movie by the name of Wildcats. They were filming in Chicago and they were looking for doubles for the athletes and in that movie you had Wesley Snipes. Who else? Wow, Just drew a blank. But yeah, Wesley Snipes, he was like the big-time player. Woody Harrelson was in it, Michael T Williamson he was a quarterback, Obviously Goldie Hawn, and you just had a lot of actors there.
08:49
So we had a tryout that day and we made the tryout A lot of junior college players and players from other teams, teams like Triton Junior College, and that's where I met my best friend, one of my best friends, because I already had a best friend, ron Suggs. He was a receiver at Thornton with me and then I met Fred Davis there and our friendship and our bond has been as tight as it has been right now today.
09:18 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So all of you guys were in Chicago, or were you at the junior college.
09:25 - James McKinley (Guest)
We're in Chicago and we're at different junior colleges. Okay, fred was at Triton, which was a powerhouse, juco. I was at Thornton. We won one game in two years. I was hurt, so I didn't win any games in junior college Zero, none. So, to make a long story short, fred Davis was this unbelievable athlete. When I saw him, I was in awe of his presence and his character.
09:53 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Now wait a minute. So, Fred is what? 6'3", 6'4". Fred was 6'4" and you are 5'8" at the time, 5'8" really. So what did y'all look like walking down the street?
10:08 - James McKinley (Guest)
It didn't matter, His friendship, his character. He was just this dude that was loved by everybody he was.
10:15
He had a big personality and just I just felt always happy around this dude. So to make a long story short, after they beat us I did have a great game against their number one receiver. I think he caught one pass, a quick slant, and I kind of broke his ribs. And Coach Mike Emhoff he was the DB coach at Tulane at the time. He came out and he said he was at Triton looking for DBs and they already had a player on their team. They had Fred and I think they had the receiver that I was going up against and I did well against.
10:57
And they said, yeah, you need to take a look at that McKinley kid over at Thornton. And Fred said he said didn't you guys beat them bad? He said, yeah, but look at McKinley. So from that point on he looked at me, coach Emoff did and Fred was going there. So I said you know what? Okay, I can go there. I did my trip and I have family from New Orleans, my dad's from New Orleans. I got my cousins in New Orleans and that made the transition a little easy to go away from home. So I owe.
11:31
Fred that He'll never admit it, but I owe him that he's. You know the reason why I got looked at by Tulane. Other than that I probably went to probably northern Iowa, northern Illinois, southern Illinois. You had some more 1AA schools interested, but Tulane and USC, I think, were the two top as far as D1 powerhouse guys. And once USC noticed how small I was, you know they. They turned the page because they were six foot and above and I understand. No, no, love lost. And then I took my trip to Tulane.
12:11 - Carmen Jones (Host)
And so what was that like? What was your recruiting trip like?
12:15 - James McKinley (Guest)
oh, it was fantastic. It wasn't what you see on the news, and I mean on TV. What year was it? What year was it? It was was 86. No, 85. 85. Okay, it was the fall, the winter of 85. What did you guys do.
12:33 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Did y'all go to a classroom?
12:36 - James McKinley (Guest)
We didn't go to a classroom.
12:37 - Carmen Jones (Host)
What did you do on your recruiting trip? Our recruiting trip, we just had fun. Did you talk to Dr Hill? I talked to Dr Hill, absolutely.
12:42 - James McKinley (Guest)
You know Dr Hill's going to talk to Dr Hill. I talked to Dr Hill, absolutely, you know Dr Hill is going to talk to us. Okay, dr Thomas Hill the former.
12:48 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Olympian Love that man. What was that like talking to him?
12:53 - James McKinley (Guest)
That was interesting, especially for him to talk, to share his background with us, and that was pretty awesome. I was there with Marvin Allen. Him and I were on the same recruiting trip together and that was pretty awesome. And you know, you heard they took us to the Superdome and Ken Berthelot do his little narration over the stadium and they got your number on there and your name. You know, yeah, they sold me, they didn't have to sell me too hard and I met some of the players. I met Preston Washington and Eric Thomas and I met quite a few guys and you know, obviously you're sizing them up because I'm like, okay, you're my competition. Okay, all right, you know, but no big deal. And there were some phenomenal athletes and just great dudes too. I think that was the biggest thing A bunch of great dudes that we had on our team back then. A bunch of great dudes.
13:52 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So you made your decision. You came to Tulane. What was it like when you first arrived on campus? Did you get there the summer before About when did you get there?
14:01 - James McKinley (Guest)
We came in the winter. We came in the winter of 86, right there when the Bears were beating up New England. And so how did we get to Tulane? So we've got to back up a little bit because, remember, fred Davis and I now we know each other. We're not best friends at the time, but you know, we just know each other. We have a great deal of admiration for each other, our game as far as playing. And then our moms finally met and then they said, okay, so how did they get into Tulane? So she said Fred has a car, a Cutlass. Okay, so we packed up that Cutlass, met me at my house, fred and I, our mothers mothers, let them both rest in peace put us in his cutlass and sent us to New Orleans. Wow, so we driving on the freeway.
14:54 - Carmen Jones (Host)
so I'm not a big driver. Did y'all have a map?
14:58 - James McKinley (Guest)
yeah, we didn't have google at all.
15:00 - Carmen Jones (Host)
you had to have that little trip, triple A trip. The paper map, yes, indeed, with the marker that marked your directions.
15:11 - James McKinley (Guest)
Absolutely, absolutely. So Brad and I, we made that trip there. So the thing that we made a pact with each other and we said we're here on business, we're going to do two things. We're going to make sure that we both graduate on time. The next thing we're going to do is we're going to make sure we're going to stay out of serious trouble. You're going to get in trouble because you're in college, but nothing that's going to be detrimental to your future. So we wind up doing that, and then we look to each other and say, as far as playing time, well, you're going to have to manage that on your own. So Fred came in there. He stepped right in and he got a lot of reps. I didn't get one rep at corner my first year there. I was still developing, and not only that. I had some amazing guys in front of me Eric Thomas, kevin Tate, preston, washington, tyrus Allen, thurston Harrison. You know, tookie Spann was over there.
16:10 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Doug.
16:10 - James McKinley (Guest)
Adams came in.
16:12 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Did they help mentor you? Did they help Like so, was it helpful? Were they like come on or were they just battling? Was it competitive? No, we were battling.
16:19 - James McKinley (Guest)
We were battling, it was good competition but it was a good brotherly bond were battling, it was good competition but it was a good brotherly bond. And, um, fortunate for me, I was um very competitive and, you know, really strong, really strong in the weight room so I could compete there. So I had some leverage in that aspect and I had trouble playing cover two, the technique. I just couldn't wrap my mind around holding the ground and getting a collision on a receiver. I just and Preston said, james, him and Eric Thomas, they say, dude, as much as you bench press, you should be pushing people way the heck out of there. So I was like, okay, so nope. And I said I know I got something to work on and but I did run down on special teams a lot and it was a transition.
17:09
It was tough that first season there. But you know, transferring was nowhere in my mind. Compete, figure it out, lock in and tighten up your chin, strap in your shoelaces, that's all I was thinking about. And number one, getting my grades Locking in academically, because there's no way I'm going back home to Chicago without my degree. It's just not going to happen. My focus was to make my mom proud and continue on with that and I do that right now. Today we went. I think we went like three and nine. It was competitive.
17:44 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Was that Max Brown?
17:46 - James McKinley (Guest)
first year that was his second year there, second or third year? Second year, yeah, second year.
17:52 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So what was? Because I, you know, I remember the offense was like really getting high powered.
17:58 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was amazing to see guys like Terrence Jones and Jerome McIntosh at quarterback and the first time I've ever seen a quarterback throw a 10-yard out from the opposite hash on a rope. I was like, oh my God, terrence. Oh, I was in awe of Terrence. When I first saw him I was like look at this dude. And then I saw Zeno Like really dude, oh my goodness. And then you had Maurice Nelson, you know just the whole receiver core and Jerome McIntosh and Terrence Jones. They were pretty much right here and Jerome was lefty. And then I saw him come in and throw a play. I was like what the heck is this? I was kind of like in awe of the whole situation.
18:43
I got over it really quick though. I got over it really quick and I made some plays. Actually, in our spring game we were practicing at the Saints facility in Meritory and one of our spring practices I got an interception, took it in for a touchdown and the technique was wrong. Coach Emhoff gave me a minus on technique. I got a plus because I got to pick an interception, took it in for a touchdown and the technique was wrong. Coach Emhoff gave me a minus on technique. I got a plus because I got to pick an interception and I was like, okay, well, I don't know how to do it, I know I'm going to work my butt off on it. That's how that turned out.
19:19
But I just continued to grind and stay locked in. And Fred, you know, we were roommates and we'd check in on each other making sure and he could tell I was struggling. He'd say, keep grinding, keep grinding. I'd say, oh yeah, I'm going to keep grinding. And you know, and the guys you know Terrence, I mean ET and Preston and Thurston and TA and Tyrus, kevin, tate, those guys were, they were good dudes. They wasn't you know, no, they were helping me out.
19:52 - Carmen Jones (Host)
They were trying to help me out, help me get it. You know, and I thank them for that, so you know, as you're going through whatever issues that you're having, you're talking to them. Did you have any coaches or anybody you felt comfortable enough with reaching out to and, you know, having discussions with, or that appeared to be like a mentor to you?
20:11 - James McKinley (Guest)
Not really, not really. I think those mentorship. I think you know Coach Emhoff was a really good guy, really good guy. Let him rest in peace. He was a good defensive back coach. He used to get on me a lot because he recruited me and he had high expectations for me I was not reaching.
20:29
I was not meeting that level of expectation. He was kind of tough on me Deservingly so, I think Fred Rowe, our strength and conditioning coach, was really good. He recognized my strength and my talent in the weight room and he helped me lean on that as a way to get some more confidence. And I was able to do that. And you had Coach Stylin Smith. He actually knew my family from New Orleans Okay, he knew my cousin and he said, hey, just stick with it, you're a good football player, you just got to learn it. You just got to learn it, you just got to learn it. So I took that to heart and I listened to him. And Coach Brown he was challenging. He knew how to push buttons. He knew how to push buttons, and rightfully so, and he pushed the right buttons on me.
21:21 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Good, and so you're rushing, you're trying to get things done on the football field. How was that? How was it going in a classroom balancing football and getting your work done?
21:34 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, that was that was another challenge. That was another challenge. Just walking to class, you know I was kind of, you know, shocked at the way that we were looked at. We're back in the 80s, you know. Things have changed. We've come a long way, Obviously we've got a long way to go, but you know that was being, you know, a little different.
21:56 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So what were some examples of how you felt being in the classroom at that time as a student athlete?
22:04 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, as a student athlete, there were times where when we would win on occasions, you know they'd give you that star, look, make you feel like you're somebody special. But then when we would lose which was quite often back then, unfortunately, you know you'd get the ignore. You know your same classmates. They act like they don't know you. You know, and I took that. That was kind of different. I was like whoa, okay, so I see what's going on now.
22:32
You're either the ham or the hero. When you win, they love you. When you lose, they don't know you. So that was a beginning of understanding what the hard truth was. But academically thank God for Dr Hill and Phil Hughes with the Athletic Student Life, that was fantastic. I went to study hall religiously, whether I had to or not. The support was phenomenal. The tutoring I reached, you know. The tutoring I reached, you know. Hey, even if I was above the level to not have to go to study hall, I was going anyway. Sunday through Thursday I was there and that helped me grind out and stay locked in and stay focused academically.
23:17 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Good, good. So what were some of your highlights in college that you remember on the football field?
23:25 - James McKinley (Guest)
Okay. So you remember how I didn't get one down, one rep at corner my first year there as a transfer junior college All-American corner, not one rep. So all season come around. I have an obsessive personality as far as locking in on things and making sure I understand it 100 in and out and not stop until I get it to that point. So cover two was my Achilles heel. I couldn't get it. What I did was I spent all my time working cover two when I was by myself in my dorm room at home after I work out, and I think I probably got about a thousand reps by myself. And people think you out there running around. No, I'm in my dorm room walking, walking the footwork, everything was a receiver and I'm lining up five and two and he'll give me an outside release, I'll shuffle out and I'll open up. He'll give me an inside release, I'll shuffle in and I'll 45 out. And I just did that on both sides, both sides. I just got like a thousand reps doing it. Spring ball come around, we go cover two and I got it. Whoa, I, I got it.
24:44
And then we had a coaching change in the secondary. Coach Imhoff left to go be, I believe, a head coach in in high school and we had coach Vince Young. I'm Vincent Yoke, I'm Vincent Hoke. I'm sorry, vince Hoke. He came in and I think he came in from Mississippi State. He was an old guy and he used to play baseball for the Chicago Cubs, so he really understood different players and different personalities and abilities, based on your talent and your skill set that you have. And to me he looked at me. He said one day he used to call me Gar. He said, gar, I got a question for you and I got a, not a question, but I got a suggestion for you and this is going to make your game shoot and you're going to understand it. You say see, when you play a Mark Zeno, if I play a Mark Zeno, I'm going to sit at 20 yards. If you play Mark Zeno, you can play him in his face. You can sit at five, you can be at seven, you can press him. Why? Because you have talent to do it. You just got to believe in it. And I said, oh, okay, and I believe it was that same day, around that same time. We go in the meeting room and you got all the defensive backs on the depth chart in the first column. Right there we say Coach, why everybody in the first? He say because everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing and ain't nobody making no plays, nobody's getting beat but nobody's doing nothing. I said okay. So from that point on I went out there and I did something Interception and I did some interception.
26:21
I think it was that first summer two-a-day session where the light bulb turned on and I had a catchless morning practice and I was I could feel my confidence just coming up. My confidence got to a point where it was way above my ability and I was out there talking a lot of positive, encouraging stuff. You know, being me letting the defense and offense. I told the offense y'all not catching anything over here today. And then they started targeting me Terrence and Zeno Reese, maurice Nelson and I was just making play, play after play after play after play.
27:08
After that practice we go into our afternoon session. Go in there and I see my name. I'm the only one at the starting corner. Everybody else was below, and then on the other corner you had all the other guys. Mitchell Price came too and I told Preston. I said he's not taking my spot Because Mitchell was that dude. Mitchell Price was that dude for real and unfortunately for Preston, he hurt his knee and I don't know if that was a blessing in disguise for me, but I felt really bad for him to get hurt. He was my buddy with bookends. And Mitchell came in and he was a tremendous athlete and they moved him over to corner and he was back there catching punts and did a phenomenal job returning punts and yeah, we were able to work together and we fed off each other's bookends.
28:06
You had Tyrus Allen was another great DB for us. Thurston Harrison was anchoring that free safety spot. Tookie Spann was down that strong safety spot. You had Doug Adams coming in. Danny Michaels oh, my goodness, I forgot about Danny Michaels. How could I forget about Danny Michaels? And but yeah, that was pretty much a secondary. Oh yeah, you had Johnson. Kenneth Johnson, he's over there, he's got that restaurant out there now, right. And Kenny Kenny yeah, and we had, we had really good secondary and I had that locked in because then I became a leader and you know, I just came out of my shell and my confidence was really high. Academically, I was on point to graduate and we could back up to after spring ball.
28:56
I have a memory of our exit interview for spring ball. It was with Mack Brown. He talked to all the players and he asked me. He said all right, coach. He said all right, mckinley. Of our exit interview for spring ball. It was with Mack Brown. He talked to all the players and he asked me. He said all right, coach. He said all right, mckinley, what are your for next year, your senior year? What are your personal goals and team goals? I say okay, and this is before I got into the starting rotation. This is where I didn't know my cover two and I had to learn it. I say I looked him dead in the eye. I say number one I'm going to graduate on time. I was still struggling.
29:32 - Carmen Jones (Host)
But I wasn't, you know, I was still on time, you were there, I was there.
29:34 - James McKinley (Guest)
I was there and I say and I'm going, we're going to have a winning season and I'm going to start all 12 games. And he looked at me. I say, and I'm going to start all 12 games. And he looked at me. I say, and I'm starting all 12 games, we're going to have a winning season and I'm graduating on time. Fast forward to a senior year, 12 game starter, winning season. And we go to the Independence Bowl and I graduate in the winter of 88, graduated high school in 84, so I got it in four years Excellent, and some months right.
30:07 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Yeah, what did you graduate in?
30:10 - James McKinley (Guest)
Sports administration, physical education yeah, I tell a lot of people that and I'm proud of my degree. And they say, but what are you doing with it now? I say, well, I'm doing what I'm doing. And they say, but what are you doing with it now? I say, well, I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm coaching on the side, but my profession is in mortgage banking because I'm a firm believer in you. Get up in the morning, go do what you have to do to make a living, take care of your family, prepare for retirement. And what gets you up in the morning is your passion. Football is my passion. I've been in love with this game since I was 13 years old. Here I am looking at 60. Huh, 60? Yes, I'm looking there. Yes, you are Not so fast. I feel great. So, yeah, and we went on to have a winning season and it was special.
31:00 - Carmen Jones (Host)
I think that was special, definitely. What was it like playing in the Independence Bowl? You know that was kind of your last game, yeah, what was your excitement level? Like I know, you had a really great game.
31:12 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, when we talk about the Independence Bowl, if we back up to the season, you talked about some good plays. Good plays First game starting against Louisville. We should have won that game. We lost. But I got defensive player of the game, got an interception fumble recovery. I just did my job. I didn't know I made defensive player of the game. I was just doing what I was supposed to be doing, stopped him from making plays. I got player of the game against Ole Miss Once again, interception fumble recovery, good tackles and just doing my job against a phenomenal opponent. Played well, you know, against all the other games I think out of the I was a seven or eight game grade out, meaning played well enough to win in eight of our games that we played. And then we play LSU, our final game of the season. We compete against that team and we're competitive. In the dome, coach Brown say if we're competitive or if we win, we got an independence bowl bid. So I said okay.
32:18
And leading up to that game, you know you get all the media all around and I remember they tried to trap me and asked me who's the best receiver you ever played against. I was like, well, let's talk about this for a minute, because I knew who we were about to face on the other side of the ball and I knew who we had in our locker room right. So I said I'll tell you what you got. A number over there number 82, and that purple and gold is freaking awesome. But I tell you what we got. This one guy with 11 on his back and I think he's pretty awesome too Mark Zeno is. You know, I get to go up against that every day. But number 82 on the other side is quite an opponent. So I didn't let them trap me. I was very careful with my answer.
33:05
But we went out there and had a good game, made some plays, we gave up a couple of touchdowns in the air, but when you look at it on film it looked like I got beat. But we were in what we call two-man. I remember that. And in that two-man technique we got underneath trail technique inside and got underneath trail technique inside and got help over the top. Unfortunately, you know the way that offense rolled. You know our safety bit down and left me stranded by myself in a bad position. So he got two on me. But I made some good plays against him as well, and it was about a minute 30-something left in the game and we were up and we gave up a first down. Was that Mike Riley? No, I don't know, I think it was. Mike Riley was phenomenal. He went on to play with the Jets. Phenomenal. Rook I mean freshman Forgot about Mike Riley and he slipped and fell and they caught a first down and then they went on to score and they went on to win the game.
34:06
However, we played well enough. We were competitive. It was an exciting two-lane LSU game. I think one that goes down in the record books is one of the most exciting by far. It would have been great if we'd have won, but we didn't.
34:19
But then we got the bowl bid to go play in Shreveport. We played University of Washington in that game and around that time there was a lot of conversations about Coach Brown going to North Carolina and you know he had to walk that tightrope and I understand. I didn't hold anything against him for that. You got to do what you got to do. It was a step up. It was about your future, your career, and I was glad for him.
34:47
Then we go in and we have a banquet. So at the banquet in Shreveport. There's a lot of people there and we're on the stage and each position group, you know, we go up there and you shake your opponent's hand and hand them the watch or the. I think it was like a ring or something. And I remember Brian Slater, tall he was about, I think he was probably 6'5", 6'4", 6'5" and I'm 5'9". So we go up on the stage together and they're laughing. I'm real sensitive, so my feelings for them, I'm bubbling, I'm boiling, and we shake hands. They laugh. He looked down at me, he laughed and I said I didn't laugh, I didn't smile, I said I see you, mark man Squares his hand. I walked off the stage. You know All of my feelings all hurt All of my shoulders. But that was who I was and that's the way I am. But I've learned to work on that piece.
35:40
So we go out and we first play the game. They went with, I think, a flea flicker and they got me, but thank God for Mitchell Price, he covered my foot over the top and made the play. It was overthrown and, you know, game started to go on. Go on, get a nice tackle down in the end zone, down in the red zone, stopping from going in for a touchdown. Right at the half they tried to go with, you know, a fake kneel down and we're sitting in cover three and try to go to Brian Slater and I jump-stepped in front of him. He got a pick, a little redemption there.
36:15
You know the funny thing about it, at the time my girlfriend, who is my wife now, she's from California and her whole family it was a national televised game because it's a bowl game, so they're watching it at home and it's the University of Washington back to it and she's in LA and that's where she's from, carson to be exact. And you know it felt good to play well on national television, you know, and my wife was there and come out in the second half, get another pick, another big play. You know a lot of big plays had some fun and you know I did play with a slight little chip on my shoulder from the embarrassment at the banquet, but other than that we had fun. I wish we'd have won. I thought our defense played extremely well. We played extremely well. Our offense couldn't get it going. I didn't, you know, thought we could have played better.
37:11 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Didn't Mack Brown coach that game?
37:13 - James McKinley (Guest)
He coached that game. He coached that game. He coached that game. I know the offense wish they would have done a little better, but you know they got us there. We rode their coattails a whole lot throughout the season. We kept giving them 35 points. We were scored 36, 38. So, yeah, we had a phenomenal offense.
37:36
But University of Washington they brought it and you had Hall of Fame coach Don James. And I sit back and I talk to some of my kids I coach now and say you know, I've been on the field with some Hall of Fame coaches. You know Bobby Bowden at Florida State would coach, would play against those guys every year and I played under Matt Brown. You know what an honor. And you know going against Don James and his. You know Washington Huskies and you know, as an athlete you don't really think of it as being that big of a deal In retrospect and as I think about it now, like whoa, that was a pretty big deal. I think that was a pretty big deal. And so, yeah, I'm proud of it and I'm proud of my career and my accomplishments at Tulane and I got defensive, most valuable defense in that game against Ole Miss, I mean against Independence Bowl.
38:35
Independence Bowl, that's cool and the thing about that the head of the Independence Bowl commission said McKinley, you need to go to Cleveland, I can get you in Cleveland. But I had an agent and I was with the Saints and they were local. I was young, I didn't know I should have took that trip over to Cleveland. I didn't know, you're young and the stars aren't in the line for me. God got me right here where I'm at right now and did what I did. You know I did have that opportunity to, you know, be invited to their camp. I thought I did pretty well, had fun, met a lot of guys On the same field with the Dome Patrol Ricky Jackson, sam Mill, vaughn Johnson, who got missing, pat Swilling oh yeah, another local Hall of Famer, yeah, love those guys. And then you had Dave Waymer. Dave Waymer, let him rest in peace. He said McKinley, come on over here, I want you to hang around me in camp. So I thank him for that.
39:35
And we had a heck of a team out there. And you know, back then you know them boys could play some ball. They can there. And you know, back then you know them boys could play some ball. They can play some ball. Now you know, yeah, that defense was really excellent, absolutely yeah, and I shouldn't have went there. They didn't need me, they didn't. Why am I here? You don't need me, you know. So should have went where I should have had an opportunity and um, you know. But you know, no regrets, not one single lot of great memories and, yeah, a a lot of good stuff.
40:03 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So what was the transition like for you? Good, question.
40:06 - James McKinley (Guest)
Good question Transition from being a student athlete, being a football player, to a regular I'll call it citizen, civilian, however you want to label it. It was quite challenging, quite challenging, but thank God I had a wonderful woman next to me to help me get through it. My wife Dominique she's funny, you know, never had a checkbook. You know checkbook. And she showed me how to balance the checkbook, simple things like that. I didn't have a car. She showed me how to drive a stick, amongst a lot of things. She helped me become the man I am today. And that transition, yeah, and getting a job, you know she helped me how to write a resume, you know, and you know, believe in myself, believe in me. And then you had ex-teammates that were there prior to me getting there Darnell Benoit, you remember him Vaguely.
41:04
I had a conversation with him as I had transitioned and I told him about, you know, my situation. I asked so how are you dealing with it? He said man, I'm going to tell you. Here's how it works. You get a job, you're going to have expenses, you got income and you get expenses. My income is here. Here are my expenses, me and my girl. We do this, this, this, and we pay off our bills. That's it. He put it simple. I said thank you and I took that approach and it helped. And uh, income expenses. That's life. It's simple. Get a job. Nobody owes you anything, not one red penny.
41:48
Leverage your Tulane degree, leverage your athletic experience, open your mouth and talk to people and continue to grow and learn and be uncomfortable and hurry up and get uncomfortable so you can be comfortable again and, however that, goes and go and interview, go and fail, go and strive and go and be successful. And the thing that I always tell a lot of guys that are in our position is we have an edge on the majority of the working force out here. And what is that? Being a student athlete playing sports at a very high level, competing why? Because when you get out in the work world, what you got to do? You got to compete and you're going to come across a lot of smart people, a lot of smart people. I work with a lot of smart people, but the one smart people I work with a lot of smart people, but the one thing that I have I'm a competitor. I have a drive. If I don't get it, I don't understand it. I'm studying it and that's what I'm doing for homework. Yes, I'm in my profession. Yes, I'm still doing homework.
42:57
Why I have to succeed. I have to compete, I have to win at work, I have to win at everything I do, and that's a blessing and a curse. I'm a competitor, I love to compete and I don't like to lose, but when I do, I learn it's a learning experience more than just the boss. But I compete and I get looked over at work and that's that's OK. That's OK. I've gotten looked over as a player. How do you handle that? How do you handle that? Look in the mirror and figure out. Okay, what am I doing wrong? First thing I do when I'm failing look in the mirror. And that helps me. And that's my advice to the young guys coming out Leverage your Tulane degree out, leverage your Tulane degree, leverage your athletic experience and get in the work world and go and compete some more and enjoy competing and enjoy competing.
43:51 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So how do you define your personal success and our legacy?
43:57 - James McKinley (Guest)
Good question. Good question. I define my personal success Number one is God-fearing Love God. I think I'm a great husband. I think I define my personal success Number one is God fearing, love God I think I'm a great husband. I think I'm a great husband.
44:08 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Let's ask the wife about that, okay 35 years.
44:11 - James McKinley (Guest)
I must be doing something right.
44:14 - Carmen Jones (Host)
She's still with me. That is great, that is great.
44:18 - James McKinley (Guest)
I think I'm a great father Father of four, I've got three grandkids. I think I'm a great father Father of four, I've got three grandkids. I think I'm a great employee. I think I'm a great neighbor. I respect people.
44:30
I live on two pillars respect and communication. If you're not respecting me, okay, good, I don't have to deal with you, no more. If you're respecting, I'm the first one to reach out my hand. I'm the first one to reach out my hand. When I meet somebody, I'm the first one to reach out my hand. I'm the first one to reach out my hand when I meet somebody. I'm a communicator.
44:45
I want to talk, I want to know what's going on. I'm going to listen to you. I want to listen. I want to hear your side, even if we disagree. Why? I want to see your 360. There's 360 degrees in everything.
44:55
I want to see your perspective and I think my success is being a good family man. And how can I provide for my family? Through my athletic experience, hold down my career, bring in income and I'm still able to do my passion every day go out, play football On Sundays, when the season's not here. I think some people think I'm a little different, but I ride my skateboard over to the park, put my cleats on, run my thousand yards, do my DB drills. It's about a good 45-minute workout. I take that same attitude and I share with the kids I'm coaching and they look at me like I'm different. I say no, I'm just passionate about what I do and I want to make sure that when I'm coaching you, I'm coaching you properly so that you can have success and you can continue on with your journey and your career and you can have success.
45:53 - Carmen Jones (Host)
You got to send me a video of you doing your little workout.
45:59 - James McKinley (Guest)
I have kids come out, they join me, you know.
46:03 - Carmen Jones (Host)
You got to send me a clip of that at least 10 seconds 10-second clip.
46:07 - James McKinley (Guest)
That's funny.
46:08 - Carmen Jones (Host)
I need a 10-second clip of that.
46:12 - James McKinley (Guest)
I get the kids that live in the neighborhood and they see me out there. They say, coach, can we play? I say yeah, but you got to give me my 1,000 yards. Anybody show up. You got to do the thousand yards. It's just ten hundreds. You can split that thing up however you want, and I ran track at Tulane as well. So it's a combination of a track workout and football and that's what I used when I was trying to stay in shape and chasing my dream. I had my workout with the Raiders as well, in and out of a lot of camps. I did a lot of camps and I've used that to stay in shape. Yeah, and for the record, I think my senior year I was, pound for pound, the strongest player to win.
46:52 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Probably.
46:53 - James McKinley (Guest)
Between you and Preston. And that was my competition.
46:58 - Carmen Jones (Host)
I love that dude.
47:01 - James McKinley (Guest)
I love that dude, you know you know, being 5'8, 172, bench pressing 420, squatting 550, 320, power clean, I ran a 439 and I had a 33 and a half inch vertical. So I was packing something in that little, you know mighty body of mine. But you know, it's just the work. Put the work in, go grinding. Everybody's blessed with something right. Everybody is blessed with some special qualities. I think my physical strength and my physical ability was mine. My height wasn't, my speed was okay, but my strength was something that I could leverage and help gain, give me confidence. And I always tell people find out what you're good at and foster it and leverage it and continue to build on it, because that's where you're going to pull your confidence from. When you play with your confidence here, you're doing things that are way above your ability.
47:57 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Firm believer that, and I'm an example yeah, so what are some of your thoughts about NIL? I know they didn't have that back when you were playing.
48:08 - James McKinley (Guest)
Well, name, image and likeness. Good question, good question. Well, I wouldn't have got any money then because my name wasn't no nothing. I still been waiting for my $5 after the game to buy me a burger. Oh my God For rallies. But I think there's a place. I think, once they understand it and they get it under control, I think it will be okay. I'm not an expert in that area, I'm not. I'm going to be first and I'm okay with not knowing it. Why? Because it's not really impacting me right now. If it's impacting me or somebody I know, and obviously I'll dive into a little more detail, but you know, good for them. Good for them to get money. I've always been an advocate for athletes should get some laundry money.
48:58 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Right and.
48:58 - James McKinley (Guest)
I'm not talking about thousands of dollars, and when I say laundry money, I say that because there were times where I didn't have clean clothes. I had to sneak it in my football bag to get them clean. Wow, you couldn't work my mom wasn't, I don't know just to do laundry, you know, and get a burger or a pizza at night, you know, especially during the season. You can't work, you know, you're getting hungry, you know.
49:28
But good for these guys, that's getting that money, good for them. But I'm a big opponent of don't chase the money, chase the dream. The money is the byproduct that's going to cut Right, you know. So. Going to cut right, you know. So, yeah, you know one state I think there's a lot of work to be done with that and I am and, like I said, I'm not an expert in that area and I don't pretend to be good- for nothing.
49:51 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So the kids that you're coaching, what age group have you been coaching?
49:55 - James McKinley (Guest)
right now it's junior college. Um, they're from the ages of 18 to 26. I got some men. I love this. I love this level because I don't have to really deal with the parents.
50:10 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Okay, Do they hop in and out of the transfer portal? Can they get in the portal?
50:16 - James McKinley (Guest)
No, we get them. We get some from the portal. Who gets stuck in the portal? They don't they want to play, they don't have anywhere to go.
50:24 - Carmen Jones (Host)
So they sign with us and we give them that. So the transfer portal impacts you in terms of there's there's players that need somewhere to go yeah, yeah.
50:33 - James McKinley (Guest)
And then it hinders us as well, because we got players that need to go somewhere and they can't because there's a log jam in the portal and it's causing what our freshman class coming out of high school, a lot of guys getting overlooked. Like I said, we had a camp today and we had a lot of great guys out and, um, you know, they're just still waiting. And I got guys right now that I've coached and they're, you know, they have their aa in hand, their associate's degrees in hand. They have great film against high-quality junior college teams. We played New Mexico military, we played snow college and they balled out against those high level and those two teams they battle for the junior college national championship. They're in contention every year.
51:19
So when you go up against that type of talent, you see where you are and they do well and all right, that's only film. You got your degree, all right, let's go. And they're still, you know, waiting for their opportunity. You got a lot of interest right now and I think once the portal closes or everybody finished, you know, running through it, then, when the dust settled, then they'll get get somewhere. But yeah it, yeah, it's a double-edged sword double-edged sword.
51:45 - Carmen Jones (Host)
It changes the game a little bit. Huh, A lot, a lot.
51:52 - James McKinley (Guest)
And, like I had mentioned earlier, I know back then, if I'm coming out and you're All-American corner and you wind up at Tulane and you're not getting any reps your first year, what do you do? You jump in the portal. I would have a hard problem with that first year. What do you do? You jump in the portal. I would have a hard problem with that. I'm going to fix this. I'm going to win this, because the thing about it is you're going to be who you are wherever you go. Might as well tighten that chin, strap up and compete.
52:15 - Carmen Jones (Host)
You know, that's just my approach to it the younger generation thinks a little differently.
52:21 - James McKinley (Guest)
I know I know.
52:23 - Carmen Jones (Host)
All right, just some quick questions for you. You rather bike or hike? I bike, I like to bike. Book smarts or street smarts.
52:32 - James McKinley (Guest)
I'm a combo and the reason why I say that is number one the street smarts. I'm from South Side, chicago. The book smarts. I graduated from Tulane University.
52:44 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Hello.
52:45 - James McKinley (Guest)
So it's a combo.
52:46 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Would you rather score or defend? I'm going to defend and then I'm going to score because I've defended well, Pick seven. But I like defense, Pick seven. I know right.
53:00 - James McKinley (Guest)
Work or work out At my age now I would like to just go to work. But I have an addiction because it's my therapy. It's therapeutic. At this point in my life I'm not at the gym. I haven't been to the gym in probably I don't know five, six years. Drop down, do about 700 push-ups. Go do my track workout, you know. Do a couple hundred squats with nothing, some pull-ups, just body stuff, just to keep the ticker going. As we get older, we got to keep that heart going. I still like to eat, I like to drink, I like to enjoy myself, lounge around and do nothing. But the best shape I've been in is when I was a player. So I try to continue to do a lot of those things that I did when I was a player, so I can continue to enjoy eating and drinking and lounging.
53:48 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Do you ever get the opportunity to spend time with any of your former teammates, and what's it like when you guys get together?
53:55 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, fred, now we talk all the time, so I'm not going to include him into that piece because we're always talking. He's sending me a text, he's calling me up. I'm not going to include him into that piece because we're always talking. He's sending me a text, he's calling me up. I'm calling him up. Hey, man, what are you doing? Stuff like that. I talk to a lot of the guys. It's great. It's great. It's a wonderful feeling to reminisce and to just check on them and see how they're doing. It's really great to hear their successes after the game and their family, their kids Not last season, but the season prior when Tulane went to the Cotton Bowl. Mike Arata, he's awesome, mike Arata. I can't say enough good stuff about Mike.
54:34 - Carmen Jones (Host)
What was Mike like on the team as a teammate? What was he like, you know?
54:41 - James McKinley (Guest)
to be honest with you, I remember him but he was ahead of me, I was after him, he was a senior and I was coming in. I would see him now and then, here and there. He was always cool and cordial. He was always a good dude. I didn't know him like I knew what position did he play.
55:03
He was a defensive back. Okay, he was a DB. I didn't know him like I knew the rest of the guys, but afterwards I recognized him and said, hmm, then I saw him in a movie. I was like I know him and then we connected and once we connected he started coming. We follow each other on ex-Twitter right now. I consider him a dear friend and he's always there. He helped organize us to come out to Larry Rout's Hall of Fame induction. I thought was fantastic. It was an honor to do that, to be there.
55:41
I reached out to Fred. I said, fred, I know you don't travel. Talk to your dad and we're working out. I'll meet you in New Orleans. He said, no, no, you're going to be in New Orleans, we're going to do this. So I invited him out and then my buddy from Thornton, a receiver. We used to go out and get a lot.
56:01 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Ron.
56:01 - James McKinley (Guest)
Suggs Thornton, receiver we used to go at a lot, ron Suggs he's another dear friend of mine and showed up and we saw you there, saw everybody, and that was awesome and they won and it was. It felt awesome, it felt special, I felt appreciated, I felt love from you, know the program, to be able to just experience how they treated us, kind of like roll out the red carpet when we show up. I appreciate that. I had a wonderful opportunity after the walkthrough to speak to the DBs. That was my second time.
56:39
One time we went there for my father's funeral about 24 years no, 23 years ago and I was able to have a conversation with the DBs, but not in that setting. I saw them at Brough Commons and you had all the guys walking off. I just said, hey, dbs, let's go, let's talk, let me share some love with you and give you a perspective. I'm not going to lecture you, I'm just going to share my experience a little bit. I don't need about three or five minutes of your time. Take it or leave it, but I want the best for you and, by the way, you guys are my little brothers. You, you guys, are my little brothers, you're my little brothers, whether you want to believe it or not, and I just left them with a couple of nuggets. My main thing was don't leave here with regret. Embrace every step you take on this campus and do something special while you're on this team. Do something special. Just don't come to practice and don't show up to play. No, make it special and we did that.
57:44
I'm proud of our success in 87. I'm really proud of that. And to be an impact player during that time period, you know I'm proud of that. And to look up in Yeoman Stadium and see 1987 Independence Bowl plaque up there, I can point right there and say, yeah, I helped put that up there and I was the most valuable defensive player in that game. I can say that and share that with my family and my kids. I can look over in my game room and see the trophy. Yeah, it's important to me, I'm proud of it.
58:15 - Carmen Jones (Host)
That's good. A couple of more questions. What are some of the things your teachers used to say about you when you were in elementary school? On your report card?
58:25 - James McKinley (Guest)
slow down, slow down boy got so much dang old energy uh, martin magpie.
58:36 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Oh my gosh, what. What's a tv show you used to watch when you were in college?
58:43 - James McKinley (Guest)
Oh, you got oh.
58:45 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Video Soul Donnie Simpson. Video Soul with Donnie Simpson. Video Soul with Donnie Simpson.
58:52 - James McKinley (Guest)
Absolutely. Bet, bet and the Transformers cartoon. We were the Transformers, that was our alter ego. When we stepped on the field. When it was time for the defense to get on the field, it was Transformers, that was our alter ego. When we stepped on the field. When it was time for the defense to get on the field, it was Transformers, let's roll out. And that was kind of a motto that we said on the field Transformers, let's roll out. And we would go out there and go do what we got to do. Yeah, we would give up 35, but we would play well enough to win though.
59:21 - Carmen Jones (Host)
That's what was important, but uh, we played well enough to win, though that's what was important we played well enough to win. If your life was a movie, what would it be called?
59:31 - James McKinley (Guest)
oh man, good question, good question. Um, I think it would be called um a love story by dominique and James McKenna.
59:39 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Aww.
59:40 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, that is awesome. It truly is a love story and I can't talk enough about my wife and what she means to me. And you know, throughout this whole time, when I first met her and how we met, it was at Xavier. They was having a back to school and you got Andre Lockley and Fred Davis compete against who introduced and I'm going to leave it alone and I'm going to leave it alone. I'm going to leave it alone because I love them both and Lockley will say come on now, donkey. He'll call me donkey. You know, everybody had nicknames.
01:00:14 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Yes, yes, Most of us do what makes you laugh the most oh wow, oh wow.
01:00:21 - James McKinley (Guest)
Just goofy humor, goofy comedy, Nothing too serious, I don't. You know, I don't like to see people hurt themselves. I don't like to laugh at other people's failures. Just intentional comedy, Good comedy. I'm watching a movie now, right now it's on Amazon Prime. It's called the Layovers, or the holdovers the holdovers. I'm over here cracking up. It's on freeze frame right now. It's a funny movie. I like that type of comedy and also, you know, I like Kevin Hart. You know Bernie Mac, big Bernie Mac fan. You know Steve Harvey, all those guys, yeah, I like good comedy. But yeah, going to comedy stores, comedy shops, my wife, we attend those a lot.
01:01:04 - Carmen Jones (Host)
And would you rather go back in time and meet your ancestors or go forward in time and meet your descendants?
01:01:11 - James McKinley (Guest)
Descendants, I'm a forward type of man. You want to see what's going on down the line.
01:01:18
I thank them for everything they did. I live in the present and I look to the future. The past, yeah, I know we reminisce about the good stuff and sometimes the bad stuff come on and I have to shake it off because there's some bad stuff back there. I want to keep. I always bring the good stuff forward, you know. But yeah, I like to see what my descendants look like, how they're managing and what impact they're having on the world. Yeah, hopefully that have some of my energy and, you know, some of my philosophies in life having a positive impact.
01:01:52 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Is there something that you want to cover that we didn't touch on, or any stories that you might have wanted to put out there that we didn't get to?
01:02:01 - James McKinley (Guest)
Wow, there's a lot. There's a lot. I think we spent a lot of time here. I tell you what guys that I miss. I miss Tookie Spann. I miss him. I miss Jay Rink. I miss a lot of the guys that are with us right now that we play together. That's another reason why you know, I hang on to a lot of these guys and I talk to them. Yeah, yeah, I leave it right there.
01:02:24 - Carmen Jones (Host)
You want to leave it right there, okay, well, great talking to you today, james, great just spending time with you. Really, this is, this has been fun. Um, and again, we, you know we we want to put our stories out there. Um, start talking about, you know, our experiences, because I think it will definitely have an impact on you know the, the kids that are coming through now the young men and women that are coming through now um something to reach, reach out for.
01:02:56
I love that. You, um are in the financial industry, right? Just you know I need to make some money.
01:03:04 - James McKinley (Guest)
Hey, you got to go get it.
01:03:05 - Carmen Jones (Host)
You got to go get it.
01:03:06 - James McKinley (Guest)
It's not always fun. You know you got to lock in and you got to learn. You got to study, you got to go to the peak. You know Nobody owes us anything. Let's go get it. Let's go.
01:03:16 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Well, good, well, I'm so excited to have spoken to you and tell your wife she is an angel and we love her.
01:03:26 - James McKinley (Guest)
You love her, so we love her too. Can I get a picture up there? That's on our 30th anniversary. We're on a cruise.
01:03:35 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Okay.
01:03:36 - James McKinley (Guest)
Yeah, we're on a cruise. Yeah, we took a picture on our 30th anniversary, so that was pretty cool. What was that? The World Caribbean Symphony of the Sea.
01:03:47 - Carmen Jones (Host)
Y'all have a good one.
01:03:48 - James McKinley (Guest)
Roll, greenway roll. Thank you guys.
01:03:51 - Carmen Jones (Host)
All righty.
01:03:52 - James McKinley (Guest)
See you, bye-bye, bye.