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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of youth sports parenting in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Let's be honest here, Matt, okay?
A lot of parents would love one hour face to face with the
director of one of the hottest youth academies in America.
just to ask the questions no one ever gave you straight answers to.
We were lucky to get that.
What really matters what scouts actually look for?
What gets a kid noticed and whether your player is truly
ready for that?
Yeah, well, you know what, parents is?
Matt said, lucky for you.
You can't be in that room, but Matt and I were.
take off those rose colored glasseses.
If your kid wants to be among the best of the best, the top of
the top, you got to listen to what it takes.
This is just not a conversation about talent.
It's a conversation about profile, identity, standards,
what a series academy is actually trying to build.
guest today is is Jose Campos,
Academy director at Orlando City, and he brings a rare
mix to this conversation, scout, recruiter,
academy leader, and a real business and system mind.
He thinks in detail structure numbers long term outcomes.
So in this episode, you get into what Orlando City is actually looking for.
How Jose thinks about player profiles, what separates performance
from contential, and what fem is misunderstand
about the pathway at the highest level.
Director Campos, welcome to Chasing the Game.
Great to have you with us.
We can't wait to hear your story.
Jose: I started like, like everybody.
I, tried to play soccer professionally
and I didn't make it as far as I wanted.
So the moment that you start realizing
that you're not gonna make millions
in soccer is the moment that you
start realizing the second pathway.
But the truth is, once, you realize
that you don't gonna make as fast as
you want, you start your career with,
coaching licenses, scout licenses,
anything that you can do, I did my
degree in business sports management.
I left home, I left Spain with a little
bit of experience already scouting
for agents, mostly who are the ones
who can only need help and will rely
on 22-year-old kids in experience,
more than professional clubs.
So I started with agencies and I started
coaching local clubs and then, did a
little bit of moving around the wall.
Went to England first, and then 12
years ago, I, arrived to North America.
And even during my 12 years here, I
spent some time in China, in Nigeria,
working in soccer and in this country.
Well, I went to Boston, New Jersey.
Oregon for five, six years.
I went to school in Oregon, be an
MBA in sports management in Oregon
and then New York and now Orlando.
So I like to move.
I think it's important to see soccer
in multiple cultures environment.
soccer in Nigeria has nothing
to do with soccer in China.
Soccer in China has nothing
do soccer in England, and
it's not even better or worse.
Now my first realization of soccer
is not, it's different depending on
where you are, is moving from Spain to
England, Spain, I left Spain, 2012 Prime
Spain, Tiki Taka wanna woke up in 2010.
Everybody wanted to play Ola.
Everybody wanted to play Spain.
You go to England and first minute.
Team that I'm actually playing, I'm a sure
semipro whatever Lo bowl, I'm a sentiment
and I didn't see the, ball entire game.
It was in my long leagues, very,
very lower leagues in, England.
It was long balls back and forth.
No.
So, but it works.
And just because it's now they,
soccer that I'm used to, it
doesn't mean it doesn't work.
And it doesn't, mean it doesn't
work for that environment.
So you become realize really quickly
okay, at the end of the day the
game is all about the players and
it's all about the culture around
the game and whatever you are.
So, I took all of that experience and I
became, I started coaching in college.
And when I started coaching in college is
when I realized how much I love scouting.
I think I'm a good coach, but
I'm not, I don't think I'm the
best coach and I wanted to win.
That's something that I do have.
I wanted to win absolutely
everything I do.
So when I started coaching in college,
I, realized it doesn't matter how good
as I'm as a coach, if I don't have the
best players, I'm not going to win.
So I went out there and I started
recruiting and recruiting and recruiting.
And I remember telling my wife
three months before the season,
Hey, I already won the league.
And my wife tried to always
humble me down all the time.
She was hold me, you already won.
It's three months before season I started.
I have a super team and if I have a
super team, I'm gonna put the pressure
on myself, I'm gonna win the league.
So that's how my love
for scouting started.
I just love scouting and
recruiting, scouting and recruiting.
If I had the best players, I'm
going to win and I love winning.
So from that to becoming a technical
director for GMA, which is a group in New
York that owns Capelli Sports and that
also owns multiple clubs in Europe, to
then becoming head scout of Orlando City
Academy to now becoming academy director.
Matt: Amazing.
wow, what a journey.
how, how do you think about,
now that you're running an
academy and are responsible
for, all of it comprehensively.
how do you think about the recruiting and
the scouting piece as it fits into what
you're trying to do around development and
what Orlando City looks and stands for?
Jose: Absolutely.
It is still the key base of everything.
To me, everything starts with your
game model philosophy, style of play.
This is who we are as Orlando City.
Again, something that is important to
learn from being in multiple places.
Spain.
Plays one way, therefore needs
a specific profile of players.
England plays a different way,
needs and is looking for a
different profile of players.
What is the style of Orlando City?
How does Orlando City play?
How, what's Orlando City style and
what's Orlando City methodology
and therefore what profiles
of players you're looking for?
Something that I'm always very
keen, if I don't know what I'm
looking for, I'm not gonna find it.
So I need to know what
strike I'm looking for.
I need to know what right back I'm
looking for and then I can go on
there and watch hundreds of game
to find that guy who fits my model,
who fits the way I'm gonna climb.
So when you have that pieces
together, you have a good game
style, game model methodology.
You have good obviously coaches
around the players and then you find
the right players, obviously super
talented, the 1% or the 1%, the
best of the best in in the country.
Then that's how you bring SU
success to the MLS Academy.
Know you have the right players,
super talented players, and then
obviously surround those players
with the best staff as well.
liron: That style is important to you.
So was there, just so we understand, to
get to know you a little bit, because
it's, as Matt and I explore, soccer
around this country, was there a coach,
a club, or an experience in your career
that you would say shaped you or made you
who you are today as far as how you see
Jose: I would say my time
in Nigeria was shocking.
I was very sure, but I never seen more
talented players than I saw in Nigeria.
Nigeria more committed players,
they will walk an hour, an hour
and a half just to go to practice.
They will play without shoes or with
broken shoes in fields that here, when
the referee will call it unplayable
every, single day, and they will sort
talented, they will controllable in
a bouncy field with a hose nothing
but the lack of the tactical game.
And you understand okay, but it's so
technical, so physically strong, so
mentally strong, they're working an hour,
an hour and a half to be a practice.
They're physically above
every everybody else.
And the more technical that anybody
I haven't seen, how are these
guys not good enough at soccer?
And it's because they
were tactically lost.
because Nigeria unfortunately
doesn't have the resources to,
teach the players the game.
They don't have licenses for the coaches.
They don't have enough coaches, they
don't have qualified coaches because they
don't have license to provide for them.
So because of that, Coach in
Nigeria cannot teach the game
because he doesn't know himself.
He might know a little bit he has
played, but just because you're
a good soccer player, that's,
I mean, you're a good coach.
Madad was an amazing soccer
player, wasn't a good coach.
So you could be a good player
and necessarily a good coach.
Nigeria used to have a lot of good players
as coaches, but if you don't have the
qualifications, the license experience,
the whole education package is hard
to teach the game to the little ones.
So it was frustrating, because you can
see those 10, 11, 12 years old, incredibly
talented that you think if I take them
from this environment, I put them in mind.
We'll see where these guys are gonna go.
But unfortunately you can.
So that made me realize that depending on
where you are, you're missing something.
When I was in China then, physically
not really strong, but good
enough, technically good enough.
I was okay, why are Chinese
players not really good at soccer?
Kosher wasn't there and then
the mentality wasn't there.
It's a culture where the generation that
I was coaching was a generation that
grew up with only one kid per family.
So the parents who have suffered,
hunger in China now try to make
sure that kids have everything
in life that they never had.
So it's not that the kids were
spoiled, but they were under kind of
a bubble, but you kinda protected.
And at the same time, it's
still a culture that punish you.
You make a mistake, you make
a mistake at home, you get
punished, you make a mistake.
In school, you get punished.
So you have a U 14 striker
missing a one-by-one situation,
which is perfectly fine.
okay, it's not that
you're better at worse.
It's depending on what you
are, you're missing something.
And us as educators of working in the
youth development, we need to find
out what is that guy missing to make
it to, to complete a final package
and then help him or her get there.
I always have conversation with my coaches
and they're Hey Jose, I wanna center back.
That is six three left footed.
Good player on the back, playing
on the back, good in the air.
Good defending one B ones.
Sure if I find that I send it
to the first team coach, it's
full package, he has everything.
if I find I send it back, that
absolutely has everything.
It's not gonna come to a
U 15, U 16 or U 18 team.
It's gonna go directly pro.
when you're coaching a U 15, U 16 U
team player U 12, he's missing stuff.
He's missing a lot of
tools to make it to pro.
So your job is to identify those tools and
I obviously help him or her get, to have
all those tools to make it to the next
level, so that's why it always shaped me
okay, I need to understand who is in front
of me and why is that person missing?
And that's my job as an educator
is not to win a game tomorrow.
My job is to have 20
players in front of me.
You're missing something, you're missing
something, you're missing something.
All of you are missing something.
And that's not wrong.
It's just you're still
not a complete package.
Once you are, you will be making
millions in the first team.
My job is understand, is to help all of
you the best, to the best of my abilities.
Matt: Um, I think when any of us walk into
a new job, you wanna assess everything
from the top to the bottom, how things
are done, I mean, you were in charge of
scouting, so you had obviously familiarity
with the club, but then what was your
process for walking into a professional
academy and what are the, biggest changes
that you've made since you've been there?
Jose: I would say the Academy
was already in a very good shape.
so to me the first rule was
don't fix was not broken.
Even though I know the club because I was,
I was director of scouting of the academy.
I know the academy, but it's still you.
You have a completely different
perspective when you're the
academy director than when
you're the director of scouting.
So now my first few months, and I'm
still, honestly, I haven't even fd my
first season is still evaluating the
different departments that we have to me.
This is my lineup.
my lineup as a head coach is a
goalkeeper, a left back, a striker.
My lineup as an academy director is
my scouting department, my technical
coaching methodology department, my
medical department, my performance
department, my nutritionist department.
so I have multiple departments.
If they all work well and
they all are strong and they
all the best of they can be.
Then we're gonna be the best.
So I have to replace myself and my
assistant in the scouting department
because we both went to different jobs.
So I have to rebuild that department.
I have to change stuff in the medical
department, I have to hire new
people in the performance department.
I need to hire new coaches as well.
the first thing I did was what's the
new culture that we're trying to play?
And same thing with players.
What's the profile of players
that we're looking for?
What's the profile of the
staff that we're looking for?
Is this someone more experienced?
Is it someone younger that
we can, help shape a more?
Is this someone focused on winning
It's a lot of things that I think
the profile of the staff is equally,
important, the profile of the player.
And if you're trying to have a culture.
Development, but then you hire coaches
who wanna win, that won't work.
And the other way around, if you're
trying to win and you hire coaches than
trying to develop, it's not gonna work.
So as a director, I think same
thing, you have to analyze your team.
And my team now is the staff
and then who fits here?
we have 27 full-time members at calling
my family because I spend more time
there than with my actual family.
So I call my P family.
So I spend a lot of time
with my preferred family.
So I would love to bring people that are
obviously, gonna fit well in this family.
You don't wanna bring anybody
into your family and at the same
time, people who fit that culture
that you're trying to create
liron: The question is, what is, what
is an Orlando City player in, your eyes?
Jose: I think there are a couple of
things that are non-negotiable respect.
players who are respectful to
referee coaches, staff members.
Competitors, even though we
don't train to win, we do to
win, but we don't train for that.
We don't prepare the game for that.
We develop players, but then we try
to add the best players, the best
staff, and we're all competitive.
We're heavily competitive.
So we end up winning, but we end up
winning as a result of doing things well.
But we players who have that
passion, that love to compete to be
better than the guy next to them.
We want people with growth mindset
players and staff, definitely players.
If a player is not coachable, if a
player is not someone that I can tell
you, Hey, that wasn't good enough.
We mean wasn't good enough,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
No, no, no, that wasn't good enough.
If you don't have that growth mindset
that I can come to you with my, my
best intention, trying to help you
be better and trying to help you go
pro, I need to be able to tell you
that you're not doing things well.
a complete package, yet you're missing
stuff and I'm here to help you.
You can take feedback, you can, be here.
So there's multiple things that
are non-negotiable regardless
of the position, from growth
liron: Are you that involved
in the day-to-day sometimes
with the players themselves?
Jose: Yeah, just because my background
now, I came from scouting, so I recruited
at this point 80% of the academy.
So I'm still that
involved with the players.
that's one of the things that
director needs to have, not only
the technical side, but also thing
that we are all in a business.
Everybody's selling something.
Unfortunately, life nothing's free
and everybody's selling something.
Orlando City is free.
We don't charge anything to the players.
We provide a wonderful environment,
school for travel, everything for free.
What are we selling?
We're selling pros.
we're developing pros that hopefully make
it to the first team and opportunity cost.
You didn't spend money for that
player that you have now in the
first team, or you actually sell
it and make money in return.
So you have to think.
Business wise?
No.
And you have to think that
you're still selling something.
So for me, that mentality is always,
I'm here to develop prob, I'm here
to make you better because you
gotta make it to the next level.
Okay.
So Orlando City player has to be someone
that I'm comfortable to gonna make it
to the second team or the first team.
That's why I need to be involved because
if a coach gets, mad at a player,
but the player is a 5 million player.
listen, you gotta deal with him.
gotta deal with him.
Sorry.
And I tell everybody, there's
some crazy parents out there.
I'm sure there are some crazy parents
here, this podcast at some point.
That's my big,
liron: Never ne never, never heard of it.
Jose: never, ever.
Matt: of my, two of 'em.
Across from the, across
the screen from you maybe?
Jose: And that, and I tell everybody like,
listen, You have values, you have morals.
Not everything is allowed.
player has a problem with the
coach, you have to intervene.
You have to intervene because
you have to think in the long
term success of the, club.
And that player is gonna be, a
MLS or star MLS best 11 player.
MLS first team player,
a national team player.
Listen, you work with that kid, you
have to pull resources into him.
And he's a mess.
Okay?
We have a mental performance
coach, you have a psychologist.
Let, use those resources
on on him to help him.
But you cannot give anybody a
strength and conditioning coach,
head coach a scout, medical.
You cannot give the absolute
power of "I dont like this
player, or his dad or his mom.".
we dunno, is a U 15 player, You're
trying to predict if that player's
gonna make it to the first team.
How much is that player's valuation?
And at the end of the day,
that's what we here for.
Again, we here to develop players,
but we here to the players selfishly
and unselfishly and selfishly because
I believe everybody working in the
academy is there for the players
and is really have a strong heart on
developing players and helping this kid.
And then selfishly, because that's what
pays the bill, I cannot go to a Orlando
city owner, just a successful business
person and be Hey, I didn't, I don't
have any player for your first team.
I don't have any players to sell, but
I have this $10 trophy for you that
I go by winning some random playoff.
do you want it?
I need by way, I need a few millions
to pay the bills for next year.
It's not gonna happen.
Okay.
So our job is to continue to
develop players and promote them
to the second team of first team.
And, even we don't sell them
as long as they're there.
That's what we are here..
Matt: And we've heard often that
whether it's an MLS Next team or an MLS
Professional Academy team, that there are
the three or four stars that each team
is aligned around that, that have been
identified as, uh, as the Rockets maybe.
We've heard that also.
And then there are, quote
unquote filler players.
You have to fill out a roster.
They may develop late, they may
become a pro, or they may become a
college player or whatever it may be.
I'm just curious how you, how you
think about that at Orlando City.
Jose: I'm a, numbers guy.
I'm a, again, business
finance numbers, all of that.
So I think there are players with
higher chances than other, doesn't
mean that they're a safe bet.
All the, other ones are fillers.
I do think X amount of player may have
a 3% chance to make, and the other
one may have a 1% chance to make it.
The chances are always low
to make it to the pro level.
There's always the 1%
of the absolutely 1%.
are so many success stories of players
who got release and then develop
a little bit later, and they make
it, for me, obviously, I tell my
coaches, not every single player in
the roster is gonna play equal time.
This is not paid to play.
We have players who play more than
the other, but we also have players
who earn it more than the other.
We train better than the other who
has more quality than the other.
And, soccer is life.
You want it to be fair and everybody,
gets the same playing time.
But the truth is, it's better than me.
It's gonna make more money than me.
And I think you need to
teach that to the players.
want to be better academy
director than them.
I wanna be the best academy
director in the league.
And if I'm the best accounting director
in the league, at some point I'm gonna
go to my boss and I wanna make more than
these guys because I'm better than him.
And you do that as an adult.
Why are we not gonna do
that as a U 15 player?
I'm better than him.
I'm a better player than him.
And I earn being better, better than him.
I work harder than him.
I've been training more than him,
on the days off I've been training,
and he has, why is he gonna play
the same amount of time than me?
That's not fair either.
So there are players gonna play
more than the other because they
are better players than others
because they're training better.
I don't think you can put
all the eggs in one basket.
I don't think you can put all the eggs
in two or three players because ACL
tomorrow, the other one gets burned out.
I think every player in Orlando City
Academy has to have a chance to go pro.
Some more than others because
they are better than the others.
But if you have zero chance
to go pro we spent X amount of
money a year in the academy.
You can divide that by the 120
players that we have and that
gives you the cost per player.
If I spend that much money in one
player and that player has absolutely
zero chance to make it, it's money
thrown out literally out the window.
So that's my mentality.
Everybody should be able to go pro.
Not everybody's gonna make it, and some
people does have more chances than the
other, but you can't ignore the the player
16 in your roster because he might make.
liron: Um, this idea of college
path is important one, right?
kids going to D 1 schools or whatever.
Is that not considered a success for a
club like Orlando City because you're
tied in directly into the pro club?
Jose: I'll not call it a
failure to go, to college.
We have a college placement staff
as part of our staff, so we are
actually promoting, wanting to
go into college to those players
who are not ready at that time.
Again, not being ready at 17 doesn't
mean that you're not good enough.
That's something that is very important.
in my country, Spain, I only seen a couple
of guys ready as 17 I'm real Betis fan.
If I see a 17-year-old player
and the second team at Betis,
I will be buying his jersey.
In America, it looks like you don't make
it to Pro 16-17, you're not good enough.
And that's not true.
15, 16, you still have a
lot of years of development.
Life.
Truth is, you see most of the players
in the Premier League in La Liga
and Budins Liga in those countries,
they will make it to the first team.
19, 20, 21. So you come into the
Academy of 14, you wanna go pro at 17.
That's three years.
That's the same amount of years of
development that you have from 17 to 20.
So you're trying to speed up your process,
your development process, who might be
from 14 to 20 in half from 14 to 17,
which don't get me wrong, some players do.
Some players are that good or that
physically ready or that whatever
reason that are ready at 1617.
Just because you 16 doesn't mean ready.
Matt: I, think, that's the biggest
mindset shift in America that has not
yet happened, but we're in the process,
which is there are kids now who are,
clear, many of them who are not ready
at 17 which is normal, who then go on
to play in college, who then play in
the summer in a USL League two team, or
maybe even a USL League one team, right?
And then, or they're playing
on an MLS next pro team.
so the pathways.
Are becoming far greater than they
were five years ago or 10 years ago.
And hopefully our, mindset starts to
shift, which, is let's not write kids
off just because they're deciding to
go play college and focus on academics.
Jose: I'm sorry.
And that's my only thing with college.
I do think the college
level is pretty high level.
My only concern is, is a three
month season, four month season.
That's my only thing.
College become a nine month season.
they have great facilities,
great coaches, great teams.
All the players, the
rosters are pretty strong.
They are good teams.
You play great competitions.
You have everything you need to develop
a player, so it'll continue to happen.
Now I don't, I'm not a fan just
because of the short season, but
you make it a nine month season.
I, can see college being the best
third division in this country.
Right away.
Right away,
liron: So if you're seeing a U 15,
let's say, where they stand out
physically over everybody else,
how do you distinguish between that
physical dominance at a certain age
and what you call long-term potential
Jose: I mean there are players who
are early developers and they're
players who are late developers.
And I think you have to understand that,
US soccer, for example, in their scouting
reports, they give you a minus one.
You're a early developer and they give
you a plus one, you're a late developer.
They also give you a minus one that
you're a Q1 born baby and they give
you a plus one that you're a Q4 baby.
Is it perfect the system?
No.
No, being 10 months older than, or 10
months younger than so many in your
team makes a huge difference At U 11
but you have to take that into account.
U 11 U 12 U 13, you have to
take into account U 13, IU
14 is when you hit puberty.
I have U 13 guys right now my size
and have U 13 guys right now that
are still pretty tiny little kids.
And that's perfectly fine.
Just because you're an early developer
doesn't make you a bad player.
And, just because you're lead developer
doesn't make you a good player.
sometimes people, people
complain, oh, my son is too small.
That's why he doesn't get opportunity.
your son doesn't have a left foot.
That's also they have
to take into account,
liron: Oh yeah.
That thing.
Yeah.
Jose: Yeah.
Or you see an developer.
And it's oh, well he's just a developer.
Well, he's also great in deuls.
Great playing out of the back,
great defensively, he's also
great in multiple things.
He's also big, so he
has a complete package.
So you need to look at the player
without necessarily focus so
much on him meeting performance.
I think as Scout has to see the difference
between performance and potential
performance is how good you are right now.
Potential is how good you can be.
I was saying before, every player
is missing something, everybody.
So a key to a good scouting is
understanding why is that player
missing and how lot does it take to
teach if a player is missing growing,
that's going to happen organically.
I don't even need to do anything.
My coaches doesn't need to know anything.
We just had to wake, should
have to wait for him to grow.
But what he's missing is left foot
and he's 16 years old.
It's very, very unlikely that my
coaches as good as they are, will be
able to teach him to use his left foot
or his weaker foot at 16 years old.
So the chances of him becoming
a complete package are very low.
Doesn't mean that he's not good.
So he might be able to perform right now,
but he's not gonna perform at a higher
level because I need, he need that tool.
He need his weak foot at the higher
level, and I won't be able to provide him
that tool because I don't have the time
to do, he's 16 and he doesn't have, now
he's U 11 and he's missing X, Y, and Z.
Okay, that's fine.
Plenty of time to fix it.
Plenty of time.
So it is really important to
understand a scout is a evaluator
and the coach is a professor.
You need to understand what
the professor is teaching at
that age, so you can evaluate
Matt: We hear a decent amount about
professional academies scouting
from far outside of their regions.
are you looking for kids from
other academies regularly or do
you have so much talent in Florida
that you, don't even bother?
Jose: I think my structure when I was
a scouting is still the same with the
new scouting academy is by U. 11 U 12.
Try to keep the team very Orlando
based, so try to focus on grabbing
the best player from your city.
U 13, U 14.
Start going to Tampa So now you're
having the best players from North
Florida, and now U 15 and older time to
get the best players from the country.
So if you do that 75, 80% of your
roster will still be from North Florida.
South Florida, you include Miami as well.
I would say 80, 90% of my roster
is still from Florida, but I don't
mind if I see a, special player here
and there, to go, to, go after that
guy if he's in a different market.
we, have to think that one.
There are, America is too big and there's
only 30 MLS academies, so there's a
lot of markets without a team where
I love to come and recruit Las Vegas.
Love Vegas.
Not for the gambling.
I love Vegas because it's a massive
city and doesn't have an MLS team,
which means they have a lot of
talent without a competitor that's
perfect to come and recruit.
And Alabama, Detroit, who's a big markets
that doesn't have an MLS team, that you
can come and recruit the best players.
And we do that.
Often.
it's important to be there
first and then second.
It's really hard to cover everything.
It's really hard a team, professional
team in Spain, my team first
division fifth in the league
right now will have 60, 70 scouts.
I have two.
Spain.
Barca will have a hundred
re will have a hundred.
All teams will have 50, 60.
We can expect two guys
to cover even Florida.
So they are players that you may miss
or someone else find sooner than you
Matt: Ultimately, then you're
creating the greatest, opportunity
to drive value and to sell players.
But with two Scouts and the size of
this country, or even to your point the
size of Florida alone, make investments
in scouts, find the best possible
kids, and then the rest follows.
Jose: Yeah, I mean, you rely
on two things you rely on.
I mean, I mean, first you have to be
fair, I don't have enough coaches.
I don't have enough athletic trainers.
and Orlando City is one of the clubs
who invest the most in the academy.
One of the ones who start the youngest.
We started U 11, I think only
Red Bull, Philly and US are one
of the few we started at Young.
So one of the reasons why we're one
of the best academies in the country
is because we started at young.
So we are investing more than
others and I still have to invest
in all the departments equally.
Not just put all the baskets in a
scout team, even though I'm a scout
myself and I would love to have
a ance or more scouts than ever.
But then you also rely on the self
placement, on the, understanding that the
talents eventually find his way to you.
you're that dominant.
And again, I'm looking for
the 1% or the absolute 1%.
I'm looking for people
who are ridiculously good.
I think eventually you,
find your way to us.
but you rely on that hope that
someone sees you, someone recommend
you to someone, someone plays you.
There's so many programs between MLS,
next ECNL ODP There are so many kinds
of programs that eventually if you're
that, dominant, you're that, good.
Eventually someone will see you even
in a park and will tell you, Hey,
go and play for this MLS Next team.
And once you're in an MLS Next
team, you're top dominant.
Someone will see you in Fest or Flex.
Or we can watch a lot of videos and taka
we have now, eventually at some point
I think we have access to data to see
who is the guy who score the most goals.
Maybe that's not realistic data, but maybe
it's something that is worth looking.
If someone is scoring 50 goals in 25
games, I don't say he's good enough
for me, but maybe worth looking,
There are simple data that you don't
need to have big data or massive,
you know, data analysis to just.
Trying to look at them.
And again, that's also part of
the responsibility of the player.
And I know not everybody has that
ambition, but I think a player should
also be out there trying to be seen,
trying to look for opportunities,
trying to look, reach out to people.
You're looking for a job.
And I told them, my, to my guys, you
hear in a job interview every day.
Every day you're in a job interview,
you're applying for a 1 million job,
you're applying for a 300,000 job.
So you better be ready for that interview.
I know you're 14 or 13
or 16, doesn't matter.
But you're applying for
a first team salary.
You're applying to get into the
academy, which eventually may help
you get into a third team job.
But you are a job.
You are a worker.
First employer is a soccer player and
we all, love them and cheer for them on
the weekend, but they're an employee.
401k like everybody else.
Just a bigger one And as an
employee they have a job and they
can get fired from their job.
You're here every single day and we
promote our guys to train with the second
team, to train with the first team.
When they do well, they may
go on on a game for the second
team and play for 10 minutes.
That's a job interview.
You're presentable, you do
well, you compete, you do your
job, you may, get another one.
You make it the job.
You make it that salary.
So for the guys who are there looking
for that a hundred, 300, a million
dollar job, they also have to do a
little bit on their end to be found.
liron: are there things that, for example,
that, are no substitute for live viewing?
When you see a player or you think you can
get everything by video and highlights,
Jose: Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
When you evaluate a player, you
evaluate physical, tactical,
technically and mentally.
When you watching on
video, you can get a lot.
The mental side of the game, maybe not.
And the, video doesn't
always follow the player.
Sometimes, most of the
times follow the ball.
So if I'm looking at a player
tactically and he's away from the
game, let's say he's a right wing
and the ball is on the left back,
I wanna know where is he position.
It's hard to see that n video
because he might not be on frame.
you need to see a player
eight times, 12 times.
You're probably gonna do nine
outta 12 in video, but you can
watch in two or three live.
That helps you, that gives you
the quality scouting versus the
quantity scouting, and you need both.
I think you need both.
How he reacts with his teammate,
how he reacts with the referee,
how he reacts with his coach.
his coach, give him instruction
to pick it up quickly or he's
still doesn't know where he's at.
You can be Betty, very technical player.
You can be very techy, but the
coach tells you, Hey, press the left
back, and you are on your own world.
That's not good enough.
Okay?
So there's a lot of things
that you can see on the field
that it's hard to see on video.
And so I think you, need to do both.
But eventually, video
gives you the opportunity.
I can be in my home just watching two
or three games, 1.5, two speed, and you
see when the player touches the ball.
And then.
Know I can clip his best moment and then
have a highlight video of that player.
There's a lot of things I can do
in video that gives me volume, but
if you have the chance, watching
it live gives you more information.
Being a scout is all
about making a decision.
Do i like this player or do i not like
this player It can't be yes or no.
It can't be flipping a coin.
The more times you watch the player, the
more information you get on the player.
Whether it's talking to the player
himself, his parents, his agent, he
has one, his coach, his director.
You can get that much information on him.
And with all the info, the more info
you can gather, the closer to the
right, decision you're going to make.
I tell my scout, their
job is to make decision.
If they make, if they sign 30
players in a year and 27 workout and
three doesn't, you're good scout.
But if it's 50 50, then I don't
need you because all I need to do
is go to a game and flip a coin
and you're in a 50 50 percentile.
You're not good scout.
Matt: can, can you talk a
little bit about the identity?
Of the American player
think of the US national
team, let's start there.
What, is the identity of that team And
then when you think of positionally
the American player what are you
seeing both in Orlando City and then
generally speaking when you look
overall and at the positional level?
Jose: It's tricky.
North America is so big that you can't
generalize because a player in California.
Mostly Latino and not only Latino,
Mexican, Latino, which is different
than the Latino in Florida, which
is Colombia, Puerto Rico, Cuba.
It's completely different.
Not even though
categorized the same thing.
People call me European.
I'm a Spani myself and a Swedish guy.
Not the same.
Think someone Latino will be like, well,
okay, well Mexican and Colombian, we
not the same at Colombian and Argentina.
We not the same.
So you go to California, it's
a high population of Latino,
of Mexicans playing soccer.
You go to Chicago and it's a
combination of Mexican Polish
American combo or weird combo, but
combo that works out pretty well's.
A very good market for soccer.
New York, you guys know
players from everywhere.
Florida, we have more Central America,
south America, Latinas players.
You go to.
Alabama, Georgia.
You have African American players who a
little more physical while the Latinos are
a little more techies now, they to make
players that to, they more creativity.
I said before, Nigeria, China,
England, Spain, we're all different.
I think America has so diff, so many
different culture, so much diversity that
you can honestly make anything you want.
Now, US soccer has their game
model and has their profiles.
They get it right, they get run.
That's up to them.
And they're also obviously very
good at what they're doing.
But US Soccer has their own profiles
and what US soccer wants as a, striker,
maybe it's not the same what Orlando
City wants for a striker And we'd
have conversation with the national
team all the time about our players
because they're looking forward to
bring them in for the U 15 U sixteens.
And it's a healthy conversation sometimes
yeah Jose, I really your winger.
Doesn't fit my profile.
Doesn't mean my winger is
not good enough for you.
A soccer level, it's just you.
A soccer, you're looking for
a different type of winger.
Which is fine because I signed
that winger because it fits me.
And when I signed that winger, I say no
to other wingers who were probably good
too, because it didn't fit me either.
So Spain plays one way, US soccer plays
one way, and I think that question
was the US soccer identity is for
US soccer to answer alone, but the
country doesn't fit that way in Spain.
There are players who don't fit
Tiki Taka In Spain, we have 6'5"
Centerback who cannot pass the
ball, but they will murder you.
You neither they, they're never
gonna play for Spain national
team, but they are Spaniard.
So just because you don't fit the
cultural way of play doesn't mean
that you're not a good player.
So US soccer, we has their game model
and style, but America has a lot
of culture, a lot of type, a lot of
diversity, a lot of type of players,
which is great because you have a scout
department who understands your needs.
You have a big port to pull from
and a lot of different profiles
of flavor, which is great.
Matt: So does the profile change
based upon who's leading the
men's national team, for example?
Jose: It could, it could, again,
the national team being as flexible
and with a bigger pool of players,
you can, in a club, it's different.
It's harder to change a profile because,
I think in America we're not there yet.
But in Spain we always say that the
first team plays like the academy.
Not the academy.
Like the first team like Barca,
a first team plays like La Masia.
Possession style.
So Barca are always gonna hire
coaches who play that way.
North America has the beneficial or
the, beauty of having so much diversity
and, pool of players that you can change
both game model and profiles quickly
enough, um, in the academy is harder.
I know the national team is
different because the national
team doesn't have an academy.
The national team has
thousands of academies.
Orlando City play one way.
Red pool plays a different way.
I like my way better than Sean's way.
Not really Sean's way, red Bull's
way, but that doesn't mean that
Sean's way is not really good.
And Red Bull has really, really
strong players and you we're
seeing them right now in the
first team how well they're doing.
So just because the styles are different
doesn't mean that we both cannot
develop players for all a style play.
And because of that, the national team
has hundreds of thousands of economists
to pick from as college to pick from.
Have 30 MLS Academies to pick from.
You could be adaptable to the coach that
you have and the generation that you have.
You may have a generation that is
more physical and transitional.
You may have a generation
that is more, position, style.
Why not kind of fit you to the
players instead of the players to you.
And I think in the professional
level, you have two types of coaches.
You have the Guardiola of the world, this
is how I play, come bring me the players.
And you also have a classic coach
that you always hire when you're
fighting for relegation that, listen,
this is where you go make it work.
So not, I think this is always the
two types of coaches that you get,
which is the problem with pay to play.
Sometimes coaches wanna play one
way, but in, their tryouts they get
22 players, they have to pick 18.
And you get what you get.
And there's nothing
wrong with what you get.
But if you're trying to fit a square
into a circle, it's not gonna work.
So if you have those 18 players in
a pay to play model where you don't
really allow chances to scout or
recruit, you should fit to them.
You as a coach should fit to
the players that you have.
And we, my recommendation, Orlando
City, we don't, we have the luxury
that we can scout, we can recruit,
So we can have a style and bring the
players who want, who fit that style.
But you don't have the luxury to recruit,
to scout and to bring whoever you want.
You should look at who is in front
of you and you adapt to them.
And I think as a national team coach,
What 11 style play formation game
model, everything fit these 11 guys and
depending on the generation might change.
Spain is harder because the
entire country plays it that way
and the develop plays that way.
And it's a it's a country culture.
It's an identity in Italy, very defensive.
It's an identity.
England very transitional.
It's a country identity.
I don't think in the US is if the
US is so big that it's hard for them
to have a country identity because
soccer is still too young in this
country and the country's too big.
And I said before, you have too many
cultures, many that, too much diversity
that is impossible to kinda generalize.
They okay, this is who we're, so
I'll adapt my, if I were the US
national team coach, I will adapt
myself to who are my 30 best player?
Okay.
They're Pulisic, they're Weah
McKinney, okay, these are my
guys, how can I fit them to make
it work and then go with them.
So be adaptable to them.
liron: So, if my kid, let's say, was
lucky enough to get a trial at, Orlando
City, and I'm a parent who doesn't
understand a lot about soccer, what
would be kind of my advice for the kid?
okay, show, show, show.
Meaning that, let's say if this kid is
not inherently a kid who is an advert and
maybe they play great off the ball, but
they go, no, you only have 20 minutes to
show and you gotta, I don't know, do a
360 and, and you got a, I have no idea.
Shoot from every corner.
I mean, what, what would
be your advice for 360?
I have no
Matt: He's, he's using basketball
analogies,
liron: roll.
You do a pick and roll, and
then you shoot a three and then.
So what my, question is, is you're
sitting in that the car with that kid,
you, lucky enough to get to that trial.
what would be your advice for that,
for that family as they kind of try
to direct that kid for that day?
Jose: Advice to yourself.
You are getting a trout to Orlando
Cities because we saw you before.
You don't get a trial with Orlando
City because you win a lottery or
you apply somewhere and you get it.
they already watch you
in video multiple times.
They probably already watch you
in person already, but if not,
that's what the trial is for.
The main reason to bring someone
on trial is to see how he does in
practice what I was saying before,
can he pick up the information?
If the coach tells you, Hey, you're not,
your hip is not in the right direction
every time you hit the ball, how long will
it take you to figure it out, to fix it?
If I'm telling you, press this guy, hold
on, I'll take you to figure out that.
Because at the end of the day,
that's something that we look for.
you're good, but I need
to teach you more stuff.
If I need to tell you things
10 times, you're not picking
information quick enough.
Ideally, you try to tell
the kid to calm down.
Everybody's always naturally nervous.
Day one, which I understand you, you can
see how day one, they're a little nervous.
Day two, they get into more
to be out of their shell.
Day three, they start to feel comfortable.
So the sooner they start that process
of being, from being nervous to
kind of get comfortable, the better.
But that's the best thing,
best advice you can tell them.
just be yourself and just
have fun playing soccer.
Because if you are the, panicking,
this is the only chance I got.
This is my opportunity and my blue
and my dad's gonna kill me if I do.
you're panicking there.
You're panicking.
you, already one-zero down.
You're, already losing.
You're already losing.
But if you're calm, you show yourself.
You do the best you can playing soccer.
It might work, it might not work,
but it might not work now, but
it may work six months from now.
And I have players on trial who have
left a terrible impression because
attitude and personality and all of
that, and we never brought them back.
And we have players who be, have brought
on trial two, three times because oh, we
like what we saw, we made it to see more.
Or we what we saw, he wasn't ready.
But he's close enough, let's
see him again in six months.
So you can have a successful trial and
not get an offer, and you can have a
really, really bad trial just by attitude.
Matt: when you do select a player,
what's the commitment from the club?
Is it a 12 month commitment?
Is it a two year commitment?
Jose: yeah, we normally give
every player a year, 12 months,
but also depends on the season.
Now, right now we're in
March, we finish in June.
By any chance I find a random player.
We're trying to not sign players from
all the flops in the middle of the
season because it does hurt them.
So we're trying to wait.
But let's say we do sign
someone in February, March.
We're not gonna release them in June.
So we selling them the end
of the season plus one more.
there's multiple reasons
where you can extend someone's
commitment more than a year.
Maybe someone has to leave the country
for a few months for family reasons.
Maybe you get injured.
there are things now, but for
generally the offer is for 12 months.
Yeah.
If I have a hundred Scouts, I'll be more
comfortable to give two, three years
with two scouts.
I know I'm gonna, I know my guys are gonna
find more players, and I know we may have
gotten one or two wrong, so you don't
wanna, extend that for, too long either.
liron: what do you think as a
parent, if I'm looking, oh, my kid
is really good at soccer, look,
he's out dribbling everybody.
And like you said, he scored 10
goals in a some, uh, grassroots team
What should be a next step for a
parent outside of looking for, for
a club or an environment for them.
Jose: I think you always need to
challenge your kid to the next
level, whatever the next level is.
At five, six years old, there's
not really much of next level
because all the levels are the same.
Just fun and play.
At U11, U12.
You already probably have
leaks stronger than the others.
Clubs who put more resources
so are better than the other.
At U 13 or 14.
You have definitely better leagues than
the others and better clubs than others,
so I'll always try to challenge my kid
if I see my kid is scoring four goals.
Again, this is too easy for you and the
answer is always, always play a year up.
Why play a year up?
Messi never played up.
Why don't just put myself
in a harder environment?
I don't understand why the solution
is always let's put my kid a year up.
I'm not say in the same club,
I'm just gonna play a year up.
No, if I play in a third division
team in Spain and I score four
goals, again, I'm not going up.
I'm going to a first division team.
That's the truth.
if I'm in any random, pick a random third
division team in Spain and I'm dominant,
I, I'm too good for this not playing up.
I'm just gonna a second division one,
and if I'm still dominant, I'm not going
to year up in that second division team.
I'm gonna to a first division team.
I have parents that come to me
like is gonna play up in your team.
no, I have the best teams in the, I
have the best players in the country.
Your kid is not even the best in his team.
He's the best in his team.
He's not the best in mine.
He's good enough to be in mine,
but he's not the best in mine.
Well, he plays two years up there.
Yeah, he plays two years up there
because he's playing with players
who are terrible and you is a player
with players who are at his level.
But at his level is not bad.
He's really good.
I have 15 others who are really good.
Come here and prove that
you're better than those 15.
And maybe I will challenge
you by playing you up.
But I think that it's always
that conception of I need to
stay where I am and play up.
Or to me will be just find
something more challenging.
Just find the next level.
And then that goes for your entire career.
You're a, team player and you're
done with your youth development.
What's the best college you can play for?
And when you're in that college now with
the transfer portal and everything, what's
the next college that you can go to?
And when you're pro, you
are in fifth division.
Okay, can you go fourth and you go third?
Can you go first division and
you're in first division in Spain?
Can you go to a Champions League
team among a Champions League team?
Can you be in a champion, a
team that can actually win the
Champions League if you're not?
Eventually there is always
a next level and there.
That's always my obsession.
My obsession is always to be not only
the best, but to be with the best.
I continue to grow.
And one of the things I about London
City is we have the ambition to be
the best economy in the country.
Not just okay, not just average.
We wanna be the best.
Matt: I know MLS academies are playing up
a year, against MLS next academies, right?
it starts at U15 but are these kids
who are elite, truly elite and playing
for the top, top MLS academies?
Getting enough match time and
exposure to elite competition
week in and week out, that's gonna
ultimately get them to that top level.
Jose: I think they're
getting the best they can.
It could be better.
I do think, playing a
year up is helping us.
Last year we were winning every game.
Not every game, but a lot of games.
6, 7, 0. This year we lose games.
We win games by one or two.
So I think that's helping to
play against the MLS next teams.
And then do we play enough
games against MLS Academy?
No.
Do we have the money to do it?
No.
in Spain, Spain is twice the size
of Florida, 46 million people and
land-wise probably twice the size
and, has 150 professional teams.
Florida has the Flames, the Flamingos
in the south, the pink ones.
And then, a couple of USL teams.
Tampa Bay Roadies, Sarasota Paradise.
There is a couple of them, but they
don't really have a strong academy.
Yeah, they have a good professional
team, but academy is not an
investment that they have done yet.
So if I don't have 50 pro teams to
play within 3, 4, 5 hours ratio in
Spain when I'm from in the south,
you probably can play a Pro academy.
you probably can play 10 to 15
pro academies within three hours.
I only have one Pro Academy.
Academy teams, yes.
But Academy only have into
Miami three hours for me.
Everybody else have to take a flight,
and I have to take a hotel night.
So you know how expensive to fly.
60 players or 50 players and 12 staff
members to Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville,
Texas, pretty much every other weekend.
So that's where, why I
don't have more scouts
because I spend among
the flying and in hotels.
If I had a lot, more professional
economies and higher level locally,
I don't, I didn't have to fly that
much to travel that much because
I would just drive or take a bus.
I would save a lot of money in
transportation at hotels, and I
would put that money somewhere else.
But it's important.
We say, no, it's important
to get challenging games.
We have to use that money for competition.
liron: So let's put, let's put the MLS
pro teams aside for a second, but there's
a, huge middle class of pay to play teams
in the United not just MLS next, but all
sort assortment of leagues for, youth.
When you look at Spain, I'm just trying
to see kind of, we, so maybe the viewers
and listeners can have a comparison.
The way we I understand it is that,
let's say you're a U 13, U 14, if you
don't play in one of those academies
or, pro teams, and there's plenty of
them, you're basically playing rec
soccer with your friends in, school.
It's not it's not a big
deal, it's just what it is.
It seems here there's a giant middle
class because it's a business, we just,
if as long as parents or people are
willing to pay, they'll keep telling
you that your kid is almost good enough.
Or almost has a path to go somewhere.
Is that true
Jose: I mean, it is.
It is.
And and in Spain you
don't play rec soccer.
because even the pay to play
clubs in Spain are really strong.
It's really strong because
the culture is really strong.
So they have really good players
and they have really good staff too.
Yes, Barcel has better staff than pay
to play club in Barcelona, but that
pay to play club in Barcelona also
have very good players and very good
coaches just because of the culture.
Just because you do a EUFA Pro license
and is always hundreds of people in there.
Here we don't have that many coaches
with higher qualification because
one is expensive and second just,
sometimes you don't need it to, coach
at those level a pay to play level.
You could get paid well with
not necessarily having a lot of
licenses in, this country, in
Spain, you won't get a coaching job.
You don't have at least
EUFA B. So that's one of the
difference, in pay to play.
Back to what I was saying before, we hope
we all here for some sort of a business.
We all have a business model.
Everybody's a company.
My business model is to develop
players for the first team.
Their business model is to
cash in as early as possible.
I cash in at the end of the journey.
Player for me is free, free, free, free,
free until one makes it to the first team.
And now he's a $2 million player.
And now I get, I get back all
my investment on that player.
A pay to play model.
You can't cash in anything at the
end because you lose a player to
college or to just Sunday league.
You know, at U 19 just retire from
soccer and they're playing Sunday
League right now with their friends
or over 30 league or over 20 league,
but you lose them at the end of your,
their journey and you get nothing.
So when you lose a customer at the end
of the journey and you get nothing,
you try to cash in on that customer
doing their journey during their way.
So a place to play model that plays
there from eight to 18, that's the
10 years that they have to cash in.
And that's it.
That's just the, reality
of soccer in this world.
It happens everywhere.
Just in this country's
extremely expensive.
in other countries, in, Europe, south
America's still very affordable, so
it doesn't feel that much about money.
Here do have the feeling of players are
clients, and the clients always right?
Not necessarily the play.
The parents are the client
and the client's always.
Right.
So that, doesn't do well for
liron: look, look, it would be
you, you, have an MBA, it would
be un-American, to pay a lot of
money for an inferior product.
So we, we gotta make sure
the product is up there.
That's just wow.
Matt: Oh man.
Jose: I'm a business person, but I,
when you put it on a business word, it
sounds, it sounds bad, but is it wrong?
Just because it doesn't sound
the way we want it to sound
doesn't mean that it's not true.
And there are companies, there
are companies who have to pay
bills, salaries, and, benefits and
they have to find a way to do it.
And it's not right or wrong, it's just
the, way it's, players, some clubs.
I do think that some clubs have the
benefit of the player, in their, motto.
And when I reach out to some
clubs, Hey, I want you this player.
They immediately, yeah, Jose,
go and bring him a trial.
He's really good.
The other players, and I asked
for a player and they blocked me.
They, literally blocked me.
I don't wanna give you the guy.
We're good enough.
You don't, you're not better than me.
I'm free to begin with and
already better by being free.
You're not free.
liron: and which parent wouldn't
wanna send their kid to Orlando
City if they got a call?
Jose: Exactly.
And that's something that I told them,
I grew up in a different country, but
if you, I'm a Real Betis and I love it.
I wake up at 5:00 AM 4:00 AM if
I have to, to watch my team play.
If I find out that my team reach out to
you about me and you block me, I saw you.
I understand with those two people.
This is very, But that's the truth.
you brought in the opportunity to play
for the team that I grew up supporting.
why would you do that?
Just because you, you think you are
good as me or just because you think,
you just wanna get money from me.
No, that's not the right way of thinking.
And again, not all the mls, no.
The pay to play clubs that.
Some of them, the majority of
them, and I would say the majority
of them, when we reach out, our
player, they're very helpful.
Some of them are not.
Some of.
liron: tough decision sometimes for
a parent to think, where let's say
you said they were a star in one, one
team, and you talk about always that
moving challenge, challenge, challenge.
But the kid got a lot of minutes,
let's say, on team A and then
they moved to Orlando, which is a,
much more competitive environment.
But you know what?
You go, listen, we're gonna have your
kid, but now instead 80% of the GI
play time, get 30% You think that's
a worthwhile trade off for, family?
Jose: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think, when you're the big fish
in a small pond, the next thing
is to be a big fish in a big pond.
So you need to find a bigger
pond, and you're never gonna
know how big the pond you can be
until you actually switch ponds.
So definitely, and you go to a bigger
point and you're the smaller fish.
Listen, that's why, that's,
the triangle of life.
That's how it is.
But you gotta try.
You gotta try.
And if you don't try you,
you're never gonna find out.
when I was in college, I used to tell
that to my players, listen, you were
best, the best player in your club.
You were the best player in your club,
that you were the best player ever.
You were day guy in your club
where I have 20 "the guys" now.
So that attitude of I'm the
rockstar and the superstar that
you come from because you were that
guy in your cloud here is over.
And it's over quickly because you were
the best player in your ECNL team.
You were the best player
in your MLS next team.
You were the best player
in your academy team.
You were the best player
in JUCO, whatever.
Now I have all the best players here.
Okay?
I, my obsession was recruiting.
I'm getting the best.
I got them all.
You're welcome.
Okay, now we have the best team
fight, compete, May the best man win.
And that's life.
That's still life.
So eventually you need to put yourself in
that scenario and compete with the best.
It is better to be 10 division
team in first division in Spain
than a number one team in third.
I won the league and my fans celebrate.
Your fans celebrate and they're all
super excited and they got promoted
to second division, but you won
third division and that is the truth.
And I I, I hate mediocracy
give yourself a chance.
And if it doesn't work, it doesn't
work, but you give yourself the chance.
Go and compete.
You're never gonna go pro.
If you don't challenge your kid.
Sometimes you lose.
And if you are that player in the
academy that you only play 30%, get
better, train harder, train more,
and you get release at the end of the
season, go back to your club, be the
best player, continue to develop and
then come back again and be the best.
And if not, try again.
And eventually you should may make it
to pro, you may make it to college or
you can make it anywhere, but you're
look back and be like, I did my best.
I try my everything.
I try.
Once I failed, I try twice.
I fail.
I tried three times.
I've failed.
I wasn't good enough, but I tried
versus, yeah, Orlando City wanted
me at U 14, but I say no because
I'm the captain of my club and then
they never called me again and I
ended up playing JUCO and retired 22.
Okay.
Well I was your career.
That was your career and I hope
you're happy with it, but you
had a chance at some point.
You never took it.
liron: do you provide mental performance
coaching in, in, all ages in Orlando?
Jose: We do, we have a mental performance
coach from the first team that helps
in the academy and next year's, one
of the positions that I requested for
the academy to have full-time mentor,
performance coach exclusively for the
academy, she's great, but between the
first team, the second team and all the
teams in the academy is a little of much.
So again, every department
is understaffed.
So it is finding that my job right now
is finding way to put the resources.
I need a mental performance
coach full time with the academy,
more than I need a third Scout.
I still need a third scout.
But it's finding that, those gaps We
need to provide a lot of services to
the players to make them get there.
That is one that I do feel
we need to provide more.
So right now we have a great mental
performance coach in the first
team, but she doesn't have the
availability to help everybody.
I have 120 players who I need at least
one full-time with the academy and at
some point may have to have one per team.
In Europe, you may pretty
much have one per age group.
We not there yet.
Matt: Jose, we talk about this,
throughout our podcast around supplemental
training and there's, there's some
of the more well-known supplemental
trainers and, somewhat academies, how
are you seeing that kind of through
the players that you're recruiting
that come into the academy and what
does that look like in the future,
Jose: it is, important, but not important.
It is, I was saying before.
Now we, when we scout with evaluating what
a teacher teach, I think a supplemental
trainer is a supplemental professor.
If your kid is not doing well in math,
you hire a math tutor, but A math
tutor is not your full kid education.
you do need a school curriculum.
you need multiple teachers in, a school.
You need to have a class with
the students at your level.
There's a lot of things that you need to
develop a player or to develop, to teach.
a student, a supplemental is supplemental.
It has to be supplemental to something.
So if it's supplemental to your
club training, then to me, great.
Keep doing it as long
as you don't burn out.
As long as not too much, because
some kids really do too much.
but as long as it's not.
You don't get burned out.
By all means, find supplemental
training if you need something
that you wanna work on that you
don't getting enough in your club.
Now your supplemental
training is not supplemental.
It's your only training.
Then we have a problem,
then we have a problem.
Supplemental training, you
probably don't have enough
plyaers to fill out 11v11 team.
And even you do.
You probably have players who
are really good combined with
players who they're not that good.
You need to be in a team where
everybody's somewhat big.
The goal will be bad or the goal
will be really good, but they
all have to be at the same level.
In a team, you have three, four guys who
are top and three four guys who terrible,
but you all have them together because you
need players to take them to a tournament.
To fill up a 11v11 roster, then
you're not providing the best
service for player develop.
And again, if it's supplemental,
absolutely by all means,
My job is to teach my guy history,
language, math, everything.
We have a great group.
For example, every age group
we teach something different.
If someone is missing something
and we train the hours that we
train, we train more than anybody.
But we still train two hours a day.
You need extra go and find
suppllemental training somewhere else.
But if that's your early training,
you're not gonna go too far.
Matt: great.
Great.
All right.
liron: That was good, Matt.
That was very good.
Matt: Oh man.
Uh, it was such a pleasure
to have you on though.
Thank you so much.
Your perspective, uh, just given what
you've seen around the world, uh,
incredible for, for us to listen to
and I'm sure our listeners and, uh,
they're lucky to have you down there.
We're excited to see what
you continue to build upon.
Jose: thanks so much.
Thanks you guys for having me.
It's been a pleasure and
I really enjoy it too.
Wow! In a Latin Florida accent,
Oh, man, this was stressful.
Okay, so
one of the things that stayed with me in this conversation, Matt, is
the way Jose talks about young players.
He says,Every player, and he does it with an accent and much
Better than me.
better than me, but every player is missing something.
That is such an important reset for all of us.
he is making a real distinction there between
good kids and bad, good players and bad players,
but between performance and potential.
He says indirectformance is how good you are right now.
Potential,
is how good you can be.
That may be the heart of this whole episode, I think, right?
Especially in a system where families can get all caught up
in what the bigger, earlier, faster, who's
dominating at this moment in time.
gave us a very clear line about what a serious academy's
Is actually trying to do.
We're developing professional players
for our first team or eventually to sell them.
And whether people like that phrasing or not, is honest,
Orlando City's trying to develop players who can move
into the second team and first team, and
then, of course, Yeah, and then there was
another line that stayed with me.
And he said, if I don't know what I'm looking for, I'm not going to find it.
That applies to that scouting heart that he has.
It applies to development, and honestly, it applies to to families as well.
You have to know what kind of environment is right for your kid and
what your kid actually needs, really difficult.
may be the most useful reminder for parents is how frames challenge.
Don't comfortable.
Don't stay the big fish in the small pond.
Keep finding that next, that next real level.
Yeah, the same for the podcast, but Jose,
thank you for joining us.
And everybody listening, hopefully not watching.
episode hit you something useful.
Please share with another parent, coach or player, trying
to find better understand Como se
da español subscribe to the show.
We'll see you next time on Chasing the Game, Soccer in America.
So long, Matt.