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A weekly podcast about the forces shaping politics, power and technology, and how they affect you.
Elliot Costello (00:00)
I reckon Occupy two point starting in the northern rivers this weekend. So good luck camping out, Matt.
Awesome,
Matt Kendall (00:07)
Represent the People's Republic of the Northern Rivers. Yeah.
Hello and welcome to Worth Knowing, a podcast about the forces shaping politics, power, and technology and how they affect you. I'm Matt Kendall.
Elliot Costello (00:26)
And I'm Elliot Costello.
Matt Kendall (00:27)
So Elliot, what are we up for this week?
Elliot Costello (00:30)
We're looking at why the left is losing the politics of discontent. And it's a a big topic, Matt. surely one we can't unpack in just one episode. But we're gonna try and set up some of the the framework of how we got here. introduce the history and the politics of today. Importantly, we'll look at both the Australian lens. there are a lot of Australians, probably both of us included, that are feeling quite let down.
by the two major parties, the Australian Labour Party and the coalition, the Liberal and National Party, and how they kind of lost the trust of the public. but we also want to explore a how a bit of a movement's working globally too. so we'll take a a look at what's happening in the US and also in in India.
Matt Kendall (01:21)
Yeah, I I suppose we're we're l really looking at the politics of discontent in many respects. and that's a discontent that has arisen from the status quo. and I kind of feel like in just in so many respects that Australia is quite a bit behind the rest of the world. Reminds me of when I was a kid that you know, when the latest sneakers came out, you know, the kids that went to America came back with them, you know, about a year before everybody else.
Elliot Costello (01:47)
Yeah.
Matt Kendall (01:47)
movies
would release afterwards. And it seems to be the same case with with politics as well. You know, d you know, I think Britain was first with the the the right populist movement coming up through Brexit, then of course America with Trump and then there's obviously been a wave through Europe. And we've only seen it recently now with one nation, you know, rising to popularity in in the last nine months or so.
But really it it has been through a discontent of status quo politics where I think there is a legitimate frustration that people feel like the system is working against them or the system is rigged against them.
Elliot Costello (02:28)
Yeah, without a doubt. I I feel like you're dealing with some childhood trauma of not getting your rebook pumps on
time
Matt Kendall (02:33)
Yeah.
Elliot Costello (02:34)
there, Matt. But we'll we'll park that discontent. that that system certainly is a feeling that's shared. some describe it as, you know, the elite, some describe it as a ruling class. more recently I've seen it labelled as the Epstein class, that the system isn't working in their favour.
And I think for most people they have a right to to hold this feeling. It's it's a feeling of being the struggling with insecure work, stagnating wages, unaffordable housing, services that seem to be expensive or even overloaded services. They can't get access to primary services they want and need. so that that feeling is shared and it's not
an ingredient the last year or two. This has been building over the the last sort of decade. we saw it spike during COVID and now with cost of living and inflationary pressures, we're seeing it sort of peak again. it it hasn't even dropped away. I think it's just sort of built on the back of the frustration
Matt Kendall (03:43)
Mm.
Elliot Costello (03:43)
and the anger towards collective governments over COVID. but the it draws down to major parties not listening.
And irrespective of who's in power, certainly from an Australian perspective, we're not seeing any great policy difference between our major parties. And in today's politics that grievance is real, but I think what we want to unpack is why it's misdirected.
Matt Kendall (04:09)
Yeah, I think obviously both par as you said, both parties have had a hand in this. you know, the the the Liberal government has certainly had a massive hand in that before Albanese took over. And I think there was a great deal of hope that the Albanese government would change things. and I think it's become abundantly clear that they haven't. There's been a big shift in narrative. and but I think it's just been that. It's been a lot of sort of virtue signalling on that front.
a lot of people talk of the uni party, you know, that really there's a lot of it's just a difference in messaging when you really look at what liberal and labor disagree on. It's kind of at the edges of policy. There's they're a unity ticket on many, many big issues, from mining through to immigration through to economic policy. And then they have these kind of performative arguments at the edges. and I think if there's
I suppose one word to describe the Albanese government, I think it's just disappointing. And all you have to do is look at how they've governed just even in this term. there was a great deep cut article which I'll link to in the show notes, where it just kind of went through a whole sort of shopping list of issues that the Albanese government has made decisions not in the national interest, but in the national in the interests of
a small, powerful lobby group. I'm not gonna list them all off, but the gas tax, you know, there was popular support for that. there was a big rear guard action by the the the mining lobby against that and obviously that that's been parked for the time being
there's the the another one that that affects our cost of living is the oligopoly between Coles and Woolies with our our groceries and the recent there was this big inquiry that found that there'd been all these deceptive practices. I've I've got friends who range their products into both
And the anti competitive practices, you know, that it basically they're they've got a they've got them over a barrel. They're like if you don't do X, Y, and Z, then you won't be ranged. and then, you know, essentially their their business, you know, ceases to exist. So there was a real opportunity there. There was that the inquiry found that, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
Elliot Costello (06:26)
Hugh, Matt, you you miss gambling. Like I think that's
almost with Tax the Gas, the most obvious campaign, public campaign, in sort of modern society today. certainly one I can speak about given dad's championed a lot of the anti-gambling advocacy. but I think latest stats are something crazy, like eighty one percent of Australians support a a full ban of sports betting ads.
certainly on it in evenings. And Dad was telling me this the other day that 25% of Australians punt. and yet just because of that 25%, the Albanese government has fed all the talking lines from Peter V'landys and others to try and protect that 25%. So the other 75% have to put up with the ads. So 100% of us put up with the ads for the 25% who may be tempted to punt.
And the talking lines that he's fed are straight from the lobby. So I mean, Four Corners did a big piece on this earlier this week. I and I don't think this episode's just about
Matt Kendall (07:35)
Yeah, that's well worth a watch.
Elliot Costello (07:36)
lobbying and vested interest, but they give clear examples of a way that a sort of one of the two major parties is not listening. And in this gambling case it's both major parties.
Matt Kendall (07:49)
Yeah, exactly. And a another recent example just this week is that Anthony Albanese came out and said that with the AI and data centers, that data centers needed to be powered by renewable technology. And there was a a double hit on that in terms of impact, in terms of, you know, making sure that these data centers don't have negative environmental impact, but then also that they're not going to have an impact on power prices. the Queensland government, the Northern Territory government
obviously ideologically opposed to that, said that they weren't going to adhere to it and he is buckled on it. there was a great Richard Flanagan speech this week where I think he referred to Albanese as having all the spine of a licorice stick. and I think when when when you see w
Elliot Costello (08:30)
Well, he he
also I don't know if you ever read the Sydney Morning Herald article. it would be it would be twenty twenty three, so a year after Elbanese's been in power and he failed to act on the salmon fishing industry in Hobart and obviously a place where the Fan Flanagans have property and
Have seen the biodiversity completely changed by the major multinational companies who are using Hobart as a place to to fish ma massive sort of fishing industry that's set up down there. and his quote in the Sydney Morning Herald regarding Anthony Albanese was imagine spending your whole career wanting to sit on the on the throne, only to not know what to do with it once you sit on the throne.
Matt Kendall (09:23)
Yeah, I remember hi, know, re hearing somebody refer to the Liberal National Party as saying that, you know, there was power for power's sake.
Elliot Costello (09:33)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Kendall (09:33)
and I think in in this instance, I think the Albanese government just seems to be power just without purpose. But look, I don't want it this to I don't want this whole episode to be a a an an it's not a hitchhob the Albanese government, but I think
Elliot Costello (09:42)
Yeah, it's not a hit job on the the Federal Labour Party and the Liberals.
Matt Kendall (09:46)
but I think it's just a case that there's so much hope was put behind
them changing politics in this in in this country and it hasn't. And I think that feeds
this discontent. And I just
Elliot Costello (09:57)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Kendall (09:59)
a classic example for me recently, I I've had two conversations with, you know, very sort of left-wing or sort of liberal friends of mine, where they've been shocked at the the rise of right wing populism. And when I've said to them that they're tapping into a legitimate frustration,
the shock on their f there's this kind of shock in their their face when I say that. And it's almost just like, my God, you have you haven't gone over to them as well, have you? and that's not that's not what I'm saying. Although that's almost what they immediately go to. It's almost like, you know, they
Elliot Costello (10:34)
You might have seen a few
you might have seen a few drift over living in the northern rivers too.
Matt Kendall (10:38)
And I certainly have. But I think
Elliot Costello (10:40)
Mm.
Matt Kendall (10:40)
that's just it. I've said that I I I'm in proximity to people who have made that river jump from left over to to right wing populism for that exact reason. And when they give me their reasons, it's this legitimate frustration and discontent that the system's rigged against them. But then right wing populism twists it, sort of sends it sideways and pointing down rather than pointing at the actual problem. And I think where a lot of, you know
progressives are missing out is that they're just not recognizing that. Quite a lot often they're in quite comfortable jobs, they're doing really well financially and they're missing out that a lot of people are really struggling in this pol in this economic environment.
Elliot Costello (11:22)
Yeah. so certainly part of the case if you're trying to compare left and right wing populism, the right has a tendency to point down and even sidewards. unfortunately that's often targeted at the most marginalized, vulnerable, weak and disenfranchised in our community. most recently that's been to asylum seekers, migrants and refugees.
That's common history in Australia. you can trace it back to nine no one, one of the first bills passed through our new federation, a new parliament after we federated, was the White Australia policy. that didn't end until populate or perish after World War Two, nineteen forty eight, that we had to populate or perish. for those who have studied Australian history and we welcomed
migrants from Italy, Greece, the former Yugoslavia to Australia to to build a new new life in Australia after the destruction of Europe and World War Two. That then saw, you know, refugees from Vietnam and Cambodia after the Vietnam War. But the underlying sentiment of white Australia has existed and it kind of reared its head in the 1990s with the the birth of One Nation.
and
that anger and frustration that Australia was changing and it was the other person's fault, the new migrants, the latest migrants' fault, too many Asians that Pauline built her initial career of. Credit to John Howard, who opposed One Nation at the time, and put them last, I think it was the ninety six or ninety nine federal election. it's a different
political calculus to this these days. now what the federal opposition, Angus Taylor, will face at the forthcoming twenty twenty eight federal election, very likely that there'll be a preference swap between one nation and the coalition. so I'd love to hear John Howard's opinion. Certainly I think Tony Abbott will be speaking quite loudly about that. but
That's history exists. comparing that to left wing populism, left wing populism sort of aggregates on this centralized power that there's a political power or an economic structure above you. So it's this punch up to monopolies, to landlords, to renters, to owners of businesses. and that has been all too, I guess, quiet in the face of rising
right wing populism. I think you were trying to introduce
Matt Kendall (14:07)
Yeah, I c I came across
a I came across a great term from Timothy Snyder, the American historian who's actually does a lot of commentary on the on the Trump administration and it was it's called Sado Populism. And he coined this term off the in response back in two thousand eighteen in response to the Trump administration. And what that means is, you know, sado means pain.
and it's what it does is it it acknowledges the pain. And I think,
Naomi Klein
called out in her book Doppelganger just how cleverly Steve Bannon had latched onto this traditional left-wing politics of the pain of the working class, you know, that the industrial.
communities in America have been decimated and then just sort of speak to their pain, which they
Elliot Costello (14:56)
Mm.
Matt Kendall (14:56)
did. But then what they do is they then say it's not the fault of the industrialists, it's not the fault of the owners, it's not the the fault of the capitalists It's the immigrants. You know, it's point as you said, it's pointing down. It's it's DEI, it's trans kids. and so with that they can
then implement policies that are actually gonna make they the they're gonna be voting against their own best interests. They've got no policies that will actually improve the living standards that will improve on that pain. But what they do is they they point to the pain that they're going to cause to the outgroup. And that just that elevation, just that suppression of the outgroup makes them feel better about themselves. And a a
really good example. And when I saw that, I was like, wow, that is one nation. It's that is their modus operandi. And if you look at, you know, the the donor class such as Gina Reinhart backing One Nation, backing in right behind it. and then you look at the policies and the way that One Nation votes, you might have seen in Pauline Hansen's press club speech, that get up stunt where the poster came down at the back.
and you might argue that against that tactic. But if actually if you actually look at the content of that poster, it calls out Pauline's voting record and how she votes against
Elliot Costello (16:21)
Mm.
Matt Kendall (16:21)
improving conditions for workers, improving pay, improving you know workers' workers' rights. She votes against that all the time. That's because her donor class, it's it's it's basically it's a sleight of hand, it's a diversion of the frustration and the pain
into grievance that is directed at an outgroup instead of the people that are actually causing it. And it's this kind of which is essentially this these neoliberal policies that are allowing all of the gains of our economy to start to accumulate towards the top and make sure that no policies are implemented that are going to change that.
Elliot Costello (16:58)
Yeah, I mean it's part of the the thesis I think we're trying to communicate that the grievance is real but misdirected. And it's amazing, you know, you're describing sort of manipulation of pain. but that's a political weapon. And i if you're being objective, not a one nation supporter, c probably probably fairly clear, but if you're being objective, they are weaponizing a moment right now.
And Trump has done it brilliantly in 2016 and 2024.
Matt Kendall (17:32)
Yeah. Reform in the UK?
Elliot Costello (17:34)
reform in the UK, Brexit. talk about like seeing p being politically capable of reading a national mood and weaponizing it for your ideology. So the question lies: where's the left? Where's the left populism? Where's the left rise? Where's the union movement? Where is the political
Collectivism that steps up and says, No, we want to form to challenge the structures in place. Like so the grievance is there, but if it's being manipulated by a right wing populism that weaponizes it back on the people that vote and support them and convince them of the ideas, that creates space for a left wing populism to rise and challenge that narrative. And it seems in Australia, it's missing.
I
and you know, you'll probably have a better feel of, you know, where the Greens role is in this, but overseas and I'd love to touch on how DSA is rising in the US and the cockroach movement in India, but certainly from an Australian perspective, I think that's that's kind of a gap that's not being filled right now.
Matt Kendall (18:45)
first off, to define populism, it is essentially governing for, you know, the populace, for the for for for the population, and for the you know, the the vast majority of it, which is essentially what democracy should be about. It's there's a more of derogatory association with it now where it's kind of like, you know, somebody coming in and just saying vaguely popular things not backed by policy. But I think there is definitely room for a left-wing populism where
The diagnosis is looking at where the where the root cause of the problem is this kind of which is this rampant inequality, which is leading to a cost of living crisis. It's not the only thing to that that's leading to the cost of living crisis, but essentially when all of the wealth is starting to go towards the top, the wealth they can only spend so much on their lifestyle. Eventually, with all of that wealth, they need to start buying assets. And then when they buy the assets, they then they
They hoover up all the assets. The assets become more expensive, whether we need to buy them or whether we need to rent from them. And so it's become this kind of primary cause of a lot of this dissatisfaction we're in. They're not paying their fair share of tax, which means governments are getting poorer, which means that they're not able governments aren't able to provide the kind of services that make our life our lives better.
That make those services cheaper, ideally free or paid for by our ta by our tax dollars. And so if we've got, if we're diagnosing that as the problem, and then a left populism then needs to come up around that with policies that are going to address that. And so that's just a l essentially setting up that context. But to to answer that question, I think there, there was some, I think some green shoots starting to come through with the.
Elliot Costello (20:32)
So just on that analysis
though, that you're saying in a sentence there's a hollowing out of the middle class. There's a concentration of wealth and power and a clear push down to what has historically been known as the working class, which now, you know, might be described in a in a as another way as, you know, a a working collective, given the connotation h historical connotations of working class.
Matt Kendall (21:01)
Yeah. I mean the the the middle class is essentially a a fairly recent phenomenon, you know. really sort of came to the fore in the twentieth century and then in post war you know nineteen forties, fifties and sixties. and it's it's it's dying again. It was this brief bloom and it's dying again. I think, you know, w when we th not by choice, no no no. And I think
Elliot Costello (21:20)
Not not by choice. Yeah.
Matt Kendall (21:25)
you know, I think we we used to think in terms of working class
middle class and and upper class. And I think what's happening now is there's there's almost like a a an underclass or I've heard it precariat, where, you know, people living not just paycheck to paycheck, but they're one bill away from catastrophe. I see a lot of that up here in the northern rivers. I live in an area where there's people with twenty five million dollar houses by the beach and there are single mums living out of a car. and
Elliot Costello (21:52)
Mm.
Matt Kendall (21:53)
then I I you know when you sort of you're confronted with that
there's the there's the precariat, the underclass, then there's a a this working class or this kind of where you're a worker, you're an earner. You're an earning class, probably more more apt. and then there's the owning class, you know, where they own and when you when you get to that sort of exit velocity, you're basically your money makes money. You don't have to you're not working, you're not making any money from your labor.
you're making money from basically the the capital gains on your investments. And then quite often there's not even a taxable event. They just borrow their, you know, essentially against that in order to buy more things or actually pay for their living expenses. So they're paying very little tax. And that means that governments are getting poorer and the essentially we are and that that middle earning class is getting poorer and poorer. and
the that owner class is getting smaller and smaller and richer and richer. And so that that's leading to this essentially this kind of disenfranchisement because we don't have the traditional institutions that normally we would organize to push back against these kind of things. You know, there used to be unions, we used to go to church, there was, all sorts of groups, political memberships for to memberships to political parties, civil society.
Elliot Costello (23:12)
Civil society, yeah.
Matt Kendall (23:15)
So we're really atomized. We're just kind of organizing a little bit on on on social media. Yeah.
Elliot Costello (23:20)
Social media. Yeah, and
talked about how that's weaponized. it's it's worth talking about the resurrection of left populism because w w the the picture we're painting is that the the right is winning that populism sort of tug of war.
there's a few green shoots. if you're looking at this from a left wing perspective, and and certainly it's worth starting in the US. you know, AOC hasn't formally put her hand up to run in the 2028 presidential election, but that looks all but likely. Whenever you say whenever you don't rule it out, it basically means you are ruling it in. she's part of the squad with Talid and Omar and
Presley, so that sort of formidable four that's been a recalcitrant sort of pain in the the both the Democratic for the Democratic Party but also antagonistic towards Republicans. obviously more recently, Zohan Mamdani who's the New York mayor, and Abdul El-Sayed who has been nominated to run in the seat of Michigan for the US Senate.
Couple of green shoots there. And what is interesting is how effective their campaigns, certainly Mamdani and more recently El-Sayed, how how effective their campaigns have been on minimal budget against established Democratic nominees.
Matt Kendall (24:56)
Yeah, it has been interesting to watch. and I think, you know, if Trump the if Trump was a reaction to status quo politics in America, I think the DSA is the left response to disenfranchisement
and and frustration.
Elliot Costello (25:11)
You might need to explain DSA.
Matt Kendall (25:13)
Yeah, so that is the democratic socialist socialists of America. Now they've been around for a while. They haven't come out of nowhere. you know, they they're they're a group within the the de the Democratic Party, but they are you've got to
you know, you gotta pay your dues almost like a a union to to to become a member. And there's there's an infrastructure there that has been built up over time. and I think, if you actually look at in particular Mamdani's campaign and his politics recently, Abdul El-Sayed and the way he's been going out there and communicating, it's less ideological. It's less about
you know, woke D E I and it's it's really practical stuff. It's just basically you know, Mamdani just wants to get people to be able to afford rent, you know, afford public transport, making sure they can afford groceries. He's, you know, get getting potholes filled. It's this kind of practical politics. And I think when people start to see that, they they get excited. Sure there's there is the the Israel Gaza element that's play in play over there. But I think that's quite interesting in terms of
what they're doing. They're not it's not just it's not about virtue signaling anymore.
Elliot Costello (26:24)
Mm.
Matt Kendall (26:24)
It's about this is what we're going to do to improve your life. And I think that's imp that's powerful, especially in the face of Trump, who's basically gone in there. Now, if you want to see what would happen if Hansen did get in in Australia, you know, essentially Trump has gone in there. He's just cleaning out he and his cronies are cleaning up. They're not just looting the American government, they're looting
other countries, you know, they're like the the mob ro rocking up to each country and saying, you know, give us this or we're we're gonna walk. you know, it's the rule of the few.
Elliot Costello (26:54)
E except Canada.
Canada's put a big big stop to that i in the last
twenty four
Matt Kendall (27:01)
Yeah.
Elliot Costello (27:01)
hours. Mark Carney has bravely stood up and united the coalition. Yeah. U united the conservative
Matt Kendall (27:04)
Well, probably is the only one, the the the exception to to the rule.
one of the one of the most important things about the the I suppose the DSA is that it is an infrastructure. It is organized, you know, quite often the people and it's decentralized. So, you know, how this kind of works is you know, you've got a set of values, you've got a clear set of values, a clear set of goals that everybody adheres to, and then it's decentralized. So
different groups in different chapters in different like you basically organize around what is important in that community, what is needed most in that community. And then the people are organizing in there, you know, some of them might be librarians or the local trade union leader or a nurse, you know, They're they have a profile within the community. They're contributing to the community. and it's an infrastructure
it's it's n this is not, you know, a boycott or you know signing a petition or even turning up to a protest with a an ironic sign. They're all great methods of showing people power, but genuine people power.
is actually organizing, like taking time out, going to a meeting, you know, taking organizing, building a network and then going out there and actually trying to affect change over time. And this is, I think, something that the the the DSA has been working on for some time and there's just starting to see the fruits of it now.
Elliot Costello (28:31)
It's interesting. The word organize sort of has a lot of symmetry with what we're seeing with the youth movement. poorly but aptly defined as the cockroach movement in India. and it isn't just a social media response. this is now forming into a political party. by way of background,
it was the India's got some significant social challenges and forty percent of its population under twenty-five, forty percent of that population who are unemployed, so significant levels of unemployment. And after allegations of corruption in a s a major national exam.
And all participants were forced to take the exam a month later, which tragically led to 21 suicides. The pressure, the enormity of these exams to gain entrance into university. There was an accusation from the Chief Justice of India that these unemployed people are like cockroaches. That sparked a academic, an Indian academic, to
Call to arms or cockroaches. what's felt like just a social media movement moment turned into a a movement very quickly, with people coming to the streets, with aid support supported to them with food and hydrate hydration, with pretty extreme forms of protest, including a twenty-one day starvation. and then all fueled by social media, the visceral the visual and the visceral nature of this
of the way that the Indian government weaponized it, took it as a moment and harshly fought back and tried to curtail and silent these protests, which played perfectly into the protesters' hands, creating content that was shared more broadly. And as a way of intersecting in our on our first few episodes that did talk about the role of big tech and the destructive nature it can have on democracy.
big tech lined up with the Indian government and started to shut down accounts and and silent individual protesters. So then it had to the this movement had to form and organize offline. and it did. And now it's formed into a political party. So yeah, talk about, you know, the the the ability for young people to unite and stand up to existing power and organize is I think India is the probably the best example in the world right now.
Matt Kendall (31:15)
Yeah, I first off, I've I've got a lot of love for India. I I spent close on six months traveling through there. I read up on a a lot on it before I went there. And it's an incredible culture, wonderful people, beautiful culture, very diverse culture. kind of like in a big melting pot together and in very, very deep layers that are just
tragically let down by their political class. Like the c corruption there is endemic. and obviously Mohdi and the and the BJP, his party, you know, almost s have seemed indestructible since they've been in power. And this is really it almost the opposite of the DSA. the cockroach janta party which is also like a bit of a a spin of the B is c the CJP.
They've spun out they they've spun out of nowhere and It's almost the jujitsu move of taking the weight of your s sort of larger opponent and spinning it around and turning it on itself. It was a like you said, it was an insult, calling them cockroaches. And they said, Well, okay, what what if all the cockroaches got together and organized? and then the crackdown, turning the crackdown on it, you know, using social media, you know, to have a sixteen-year-old girl.
getting chased by the the police, getting beaten by lathis which are these big posts that the the Indian police have. they've been able to spin that into, this incredible populist movement that is it's spun out of nowhere, but like you said, it's got this incredible depth. And I think one of the
Elliot Costello (32:48)
Yeah.
Matt Kendall (32:48)
the great lessons from the the CJP is bringing some joy and community to it. there's a lot of dancing
You know,
and I think, you know, just
Elliot Costello (33:00)
Just just picking up on
that joy, Matt, and connecting it back to the sort of thesis of
why the left is sort of missing the moment, certainly in an Australian context, or or at least losing this sort of debate of the politics of discontent. not being critical, but I think, you know, the left in Australia is is missing that joy. It is speaking to the the pain and the frustration, but it's not picking up any of the the human spirit.
and the joy that sits behind the human condition of being alive, certainly in a country like Australia where we have a lot more to be sort of happy about in terms of lifestyle. happiness isn't defined just by economic sort of position. But I I do th I do sometimes watch the left in Australia and go, come on. This feels like a narrative of grievance and frustration. So yeah I like that description of of joy.
Matt Kendall (34:03)
I think this the really that the the left is going to have to rise to this moment if they they've got a we've got a short window here. going back to our very first episode, I'm a firm believer that we've got a very short window where our labor is going to be actually meaningful. You know, I think the ruling class, the corporations, our economy still needs our labour for the time being.
I think AI is going to change that. And so I think we are like we as a as a population, and I think, you know, anybody who wants to actually start a any kind of political movement that's going to come up against this status quo politics had better start getting busy and had better start organizing because that that power of that labor to actually affect change is vastly diminishing. And I think, you know, we've got
I think there's these three big things that need to be addressed, that our politics isn't at the moment. and I think that it it also needs almost almost needs to be a a global movement. globalism was this economic movement. I think it needs to be about a a a populist movement that is going to address climate change, is going to address work and AI and us actually having an equitable future in the face of that.
And then obviously also inequality, because I think th if we don't address that at a global level, if we don't as a people and as a voting bloc, vo a voting nation, start to vote for policies that are going to address all of those, then I I think we're probably heading to hell in a handbasket.
Elliot Costello (35:40)
I reckon Occupy two point starting in the northern rivers this weekend. So good luck camping out, Matt. Awesome,
Matt Kendall (35:48)
Represent the People's Republic of the Northern Rivers. Yeah.
Elliot Costello (35:52)
Matt. great to chat. fantastic episode. people can find this podcast and all of our other podcasters at the Worth Knowing Pod. have a fantastic weekend, Matt. Good discussion. I think we're gonna have to come back to this in in a future episode.
Matt Kendall (36:09)
Yeah, I agree. And just a reminder to everyone, look, we're we have just started.
We're we're not pushing ourselves out on the socials or anything like that yet. So if you can give us a like, give us a share, tell your friends about it if you're getting anything from this, then please do share to to help us gain traction. because we we really do feel like there's an opportunity here for us to be talking about these issues instead of
Hot takes, actually going deep and talking about the issues that matter and hopefully have an impact. But until next week where we'll cover another topic worth knowing. We'll wish you a great week and see you soon.
Elliot Costello (36:47)
Have a good weekend.