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HR entrepreneur Mike Coffey, SPHR, SHRM-SCP engages business thought leaders about the strategic, psychological, legal, and practical implications of bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. As an HR consultant, mentor to first-stage businesses through EO’s Accelerator program, and owner of Imperative—Bulletproof Background Screening, Mike is passionate about helping other professionals improve how they recruit, select, and manage their people. Most thirty-minute episodes of Good Morning, HR will be eligible for half a recertification credit for both HRCI and SHRM-certified professionals. Mike is a member of Entrepreneurs Organization (EO) Fort Worth and active with the Texas Association of Business, the Fort Worth Chamber, and Texas SHRM.
I am a believer, Mike, that if you don't check-in with your employees, your employees will eventually check out.
Mike Coffey:Mhmm.
George Rogers:Right? And that goes back to our conversation to begin with. How do you feel? Because high I feel is what I'm gonna believe.
Mike Coffey:Good morning, HR. I'm Mike Coffey, president of Imperative, bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. And this is the podcast where I talk to business leaders about bringing people together to create value for shareholders, customers, and the community. Please follow rate and review Good Morning HR wherever you get your podcast. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, or at good morning hr.com.
Mike Coffey:Over the last 2 decades, the search for meaningful ways to increase employee engagement has taken us from, well, I paid them on time to foosball tables in the break room and surveys on which follow-up actions usually never taken. Today's guest points to data that demonstrates the factors that employers should focus on if they want to increase engagement of their teams. George Rogers is a chief culture officer at Lighthouse Research and Advisory and Culture of Good, and he's founder of Candle LLC. He's a keynote speaker, author of Champion Your Purpose, and cohost of the Champion Your Culture podcast. George helps organizations and leaders craft cultures rooted in purpose, ensuring that their work makes a positive difference while driving business growth.
Mike Coffey:Welcome to Good Morning HR, George.
George Rogers:Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about being here. And, it's a great morning when you're you're waking up and, being a part of this lovely show. Thank you so much for having me.
Mike Coffey:Well, I'm glad you're here. Let's start. Let's get on the same page about definitions, because if you ask, you know, 5 different consultants for definitions of culture, you're gonna get 5 different definitions. So when you're talking about culture, what are you talking about there?
George Rogers:Yeah. It's my belief, right that culture is how most people, not all, but most people feel, believe, and behave. Not all the time, but most of the time. Right? So it's that feeling, and that belief, that becomes behavior, within the workplace.
George Rogers:So how they feel, believe, and behave is how I describe it, to to those who I'm talking to.
Mike Coffey:So those norms of behavior that we accept generally, and sometimes they're spelled out, sometimes they're not, but we know this is how things get done in the organization. And if I feel positive about the organization, it seems like a positive culture. If I feel negative towards the organization, it's a more negative culture and those kind of things. And so in your model, somebody can can can somebody see something as a bad culture and somebody else see it as a good culture? Just it it boils down to fit, something like that.
Mike Coffey:Or do you think there's more is it more definitive than that?
George Rogers:Yeah. I think it it's really broken down to to a lot of different things. Right? We could be working at 2 different departments under 2 different leadership styles. Right?
George Rogers:And so a lot of what employees feel comes directly from those who they are being led by, Or in some cases, micromanaged by or managed by. It's my belief that, you know, we as leaders, we lead people, we manage systems and processes. And whenever that is turned around, right, the feeling is different. When I'm being led and and and help learning how to manage, the processes and systems when they're in the workplace, I have a sense more of being connected. I feel more respected.
George Rogers:I feel more appreciated and and accepted for who I am, right, from my leader. When I feel like my leader then on the other side, somebody else can say, man, I feel like my leader is trying to manage me and lead the systems. Somebody else can say, man, I feel like my leader is trying to manage me and lead the systems in process. They not may not feel that same mentality. So when we say most of the time, it it is directly about how you may feel by not necessarily your peers, but by the leadership.
George Rogers:And that's where it all starts.
Mike Coffey:Yeah. It's almost an a good morning HR drinking game that because I I really believe that we shouldn't use the term manager when it comes to people. You can manage processes. You can manage commodities. You can manage software code, but you lead people as soon as you start trying to manage people like you do something that is different, you know, that's consistent people are different every day.
Mike Coffey:Yes. And that super employee today is may have a bad night tomorrow tonight and come home come here tomorrow and and be a completely different person for the day, And so leading people is, I think, really different than managing people. And so I really like that you you brought that up because I think there's a big difference there. So then when we're talking about engagement, well, how do you define engagement?
George Rogers:You know, when I think about engagement, I I think it's something that's really sustained and meaningful interaction. Right? There's that there there's something that's connecting us. When I mentioned that everything rises and falls and and everything starts with leadership, that engagement is something that really starts with leadership. However they're building their teams, are helping us as employees connect with each other?
George Rogers:Are we engaged? More than just communication, more than just what we do. And I think this is something that we have seen since, you know, post COVID the pandemic, is that people when it comes to going back into the workplace, right, we wanna we wanna have a sense of purpose. We all know what our job description is and and what we're doing it. When I think about engagement, I I think about the why.
George Rogers:Right? What we do and then why. It why do why are we doing it? What is the fulfillment aspect? Because when I'm at home, I'm reminded of why I was doing what I was doing during the pandemic.
George Rogers:I saw my my son growing up every day being a part of that daily task. When I typically will leave my office to walk around and hang out with some of my peers, we were talking about life and family. Right? When we were able to explore that newness of working at home, we started connecting with our family. Now some people say, you know, for me and my wife was like, when did you go back to the office?
George Rogers:You know, she was like, when did you stand? Because we're having so much fun. So there's this bonding, you know, connection. Engagement is that that sense of purpose and meaning, where we're connecting with each other, more than just about what we do, but why we're doing it. Having the sense of purpose and saying, you know, I know why he really works so hard.
George Rogers:I know why he's dedicated. I know why he shows up for others. Right? It's that it's that connection of I get to know my employees. You know, as a leader, they're engaged with me because I want to connect.
George Rogers:I want to know their why. What's the purpose? That creates that sense of belonging. We talk about culture. Feel, be feel, believe, behave.
George Rogers:That sense of belonging, the psychological psychological definition of belonging is I feel respected, accepted, and appreciated by my direct leader. Right? And so when there's a sense of belonging for the employment, engagement rises. What connects all of that together is understanding. Having a sense of purpose and meaning behind all those things.
Mike Coffey:So you so engagement's a thing out there. Why is it important? I I mean, it sounds sounds obvious because we we always say you know, you always hear every HR conference has 15 sessions on engagement, and everybody talks about it. Why why do you think you know, there are still leaders out there that say, hey. I'm I'm paying at market or better.
Mike Coffey:People just need to show up, do their work, get the hell out, go have their own life outside. Good for them. Why do you think engagement's really important? Why should a company really focus on that?
George Rogers:Yeah. I think the the the foundation of it is is that those with high engagement also see performance. Right? They see that there's clarity around what they do. There's unity within.
George Rogers:There's there's more of a functioning culture. Companies that that we work with and research that we have at Lighthouse Research and Advisory, you know, really shares a story, where people who, have a a a desire within the next 6 months to leave. We recently did a a peace survey, performance engagement culture enablement. I'm an acronym junkie, by the way. And so what what we did is peace research.
George Rogers:One of the things that we found is that employees that are looking to leave their company within the next 6 months, dysfunction, culture, right, And low engagement. And so when we talk about, we gotta find, you know, people we're we're looking to recruit, we're looking to, you know, keep retention high, you know, and and get our retention in. How do we keep our employees? It's through engagement. Having that sense of engagement, starting with leadership, you know, creating that team, camaraderie, whether they're they're communicating with each other.
George Rogers:There's a sense of bond and connection. People want to stay. People want to stay where they're they're they're respected, accepted, appreciated. And that engagement is a huge piece of that. Right?
George Rogers:They they keep things together and increases things like performance in your workplace culture.
Mike Coffey:So you you were talking about employees who are planning on quitting and got looking for another job in the next 6 months. That 6 month window is critical if if this is a high performing employee, somebody whose skills we really wanna maintain, keep on board, their institutional knowledge, all that. What are those things that are driving somebody to actually look, you know, to you know, what does your research say that this, you know, these people are feeling a lack of this or they need something else in order you know, and that's what they're looking for. Is it is it you know, I'm sure it's not just comp. So what else is What are those those components of when you're talking about engagement, can you break them down?
George Rogers:Yeah. I think the the top three things, and I'll just mention the 3 that that we see that is of interest of employees. What do we want most of? Because as you said, it's not money is not a a huge factor because we can all find that within technology. There's so many different avenues.
George Rogers:So money it used to be a money driven. Right? Right now it's development. Yeah. I wanna be I wanna be invested in I'm investing in myself, but what is the company doing?
George Rogers:So if we look at it from this scenario, from those people, that are saying, you know what? It's not about money. Money is not the highest priority. What are my my top three priorities? We see that people want to be in a place where there's healthy culture and leadership, where leadership is supporting them, so there's growth and development.
George Rogers:Right? So we we're looking for something. If you're not going to pay me high because and money's not a high priority, what we want is that I'm going to be developed. Right? That this is my long game.
George Rogers:This is my vision. And I desire to be at x y z within the next 2 years. Right? And so how am I gonna get there with this company? The third thing, after we look at the culture, we look at leadership development, we see that people are are saying well-being is a priority.
George Rogers:You Right? And so well-being can cover a lot of aspects for a lot of people. What does that look like? And so within the benefits package, right, we see that flexibility. Benefits have been a a huge priority.
George Rogers:Within those benefits, you you see organizations and companies that are now having access, even for mental health care. Right? If you want to bring that in, where they're they're having childcare. They're having, counseling. Right?
George Rogers:Uh-uh, on-site access quarterly, in some of these organizations. And so you you're having access now to discounted memberships to gyms. And so those different things. So it's more of a benefit. What what's in my benefit package?
George Rogers:More than just compensation, what are the benefits that I have with this organization? Is it flex? Is it hybrid? Right? Some of those things that can help out, with employees' well-being, and mental health.
Mike Coffey:So let's break some of those down. So that personal development, that professional development, those kinds of things, We've talked a lot on the podcast this year and last about AI, and I'm doing a lot of conference presentations on AI and ethical issues employers are facing and how they implement it and all of that. And one of the things that keeps coming up is in the question I don't have a strong answer to is what are we gonna do about 1, those folks who are gonna be displaced? I mean, it's gonna happen. I mean, we're not you know, we may need an HR, you know, one HR rep where we needed 3 before to do these administrative clerical tasks and that's gonna happen across the organization.
Mike Coffey:What's our responsibility as employers there and I think development of, you know, and helping people develop into other roles where they can be more creative and bring more value, but I think there's probably a you know, even outside of the AI changes, employees want to do something better. So how do you how does an employer approach that, figure out what that development path is? Maybe they're in a job that, you know, this this person's gonna be an accounting clerk, and if they stay in this path, they're gonna be an accounting clerk for the rest of their career. This is what the accounting clerks looks like pretty much. I mean, we may give them some new skills to keep up with new technology, but it's an accounting clerk's an accounting clerk or an HR rep's pretty much an HR rep if they don't wanna go up to a general list or they don't have that, you know, that skill set or background.
Mike Coffey:So what does an employer do to really develop help people develop? How do you identify what those opportunities look like and still have it have an ROI for the employer?
George Rogers:Yeah. I I will say this, especially with, the AI. There's a lot of uncertainty for some confusion, and then you have those that are fearful, because it's new. I wanna encourage everybody, AI is really not new. It's new to the workplace.
George Rogers:It's new how we're using it. But as long as we've had smartphones, AI has been a part of that. Right? There there's so many as soon as Internet comes out, there's a lot of things that kinda derive. When you talk about algorithms and explaining that, it's it's all backed by a lot of AI.
George Rogers:Right? What you see on your social media Right. It's been there. Now, it's changed is how we use them. And this is why I encourage people, and and my my partner, Ben Eubanks, who's passionate about AI and speaks on the rights on it all the time.
George Rogers:One of the things that we understand together is that AI is here, and and I want to encourage people this. AI is not gonna replace people fully, but what's gonna replace people who are not using AI is people who have accepted AI. Right? Right. So AI may not replace you, but, somebody who is willing to use AI to, you know, essentially save, 40 hours a year, of a job by using AI.
George Rogers:Right? I always encourage people, there's a way to save up to 40 hours a a year. How would you do that? And and it's very simple. Right?
George Rogers:Whether it's different projects that you're using day to day. So AI is not gonna replace you, but somebody who uses AI will definitely replace you. So that's the scary part.
Mike Coffey:And and there's a just to say, I've got a on the imperativeinfo.com website, I've got a, the recording of my webinar that I did, in July on using AI, you know, in HR and ethic the ethical and practical considerations and on September 11th, I'm doing a podcast or a webinar on how to use large language models generative AI and in in becoming more productive. So just go check out imperativeinfo.com/webinars for that. But I think and sounds like I need to have your partner on and we'll talk AI too because Oh, yes. Everybody wants to talk about it. So so okay.
Mike Coffey:So there's that. So we we definitely need to, I think, embrace AI and and recognize it's here. So go on and keep talking about what you were saying about, the, you know, helping people develop.
George Rogers:Yeah. I think, you know, some of the the other things that, you'll see when it comes to development, you can get into this balance of upskilling, reskilling. You know, right? And and cross skilling in a sense. A lot of companies that I've seen thrive, especially in the tech space.
George Rogers:I used to be in the the wireless tech industry for several years, 18 retail stores across 2 states. And one of the things that we always desire to see is that you never knew whether or not Sarah or Joe in the front was gonna be down or Paul or Laura in the back, who are technicians if somebody was missing. So it was always important for us to cross skill. You know, everybody's responsibility in the in the retail was that everybody's a salesperson. You you're selling something whether you're fixing the device, you're selling quality, you know, device you know, that they're gonna be fixed.
George Rogers:If you're selling it upfront, obviously, you're selling protection and solutions, to, help, you know, lower the risk of this happening again. Right? And so sales was everybody's responsibility. So the the importance of cross scaling is so important. You mentioned, you know, you know, certain positions that, hey, this is what you're gonna do and this is, you know, how it is.
George Rogers:You know, not a lot is gonna change. But how do we continue to get better knowledge? What what are we doing to improve our product, our systems within how we're doing things? Using AI could be 1. Right?
George Rogers:Managing how to become more efficient with our time. And so although the job in some cases and descriptions, especially in manufacturing, there may not be a lot of changes unless you're getting a new machine. Alright? There may be some updates there from a technology standpoint. But how do we get better?
George Rogers:I look at some of those soft skills. Right? How do we get better with each other? How do we work together a little bit better? For those who are in assembly lines, it's a little bit simplicity.
George Rogers:You're doing the same thing over and over. Right? But what are some areas that we can be better as people? That's where I get into, the development aspect where I believe a better you, a better me in all aspects of life, right, Becomes healthier for the the overall business. And when I think of the ROI, you know, a lot of things, for most entrepreneurs, one of the things that changed for me is when I always heard ROI, I heard money.
George Rogers:Right? You know, and it changed for me. 2 years into entrepreneurship as a business, and it was supposed to be a mom and pop shop, one store, that turned into 18. What really changed for me is that I understood ROI was not monetary. ROI was about what I could not give back as a business leader, as an employee ever again.
George Rogers:The greatest return of investment is time.
Mike Coffey:Mhmm.
George Rogers:How efficient we can be. And so once I grasped that, and I understood that our greatest, greatest gift was not necessarily money because we lose it, we spend it, we can gain it back. But what we cannot get back is time. And so how do we make each other better to where we're the most efficient, right? Because everybody's can sense say that their company that does the same thing is has best customer service.
George Rogers:You know, great facilities. We wanted to be empowered by the greatest ROI that nobody can ever give back to us once it's splint, and that is time. We're gonna give you quality time. And and I think that's important.
Mike Coffey:And so when people feel like they're spending their time in a meaningful way Yeah. They're gonna do a better job. But in a that's gonna lead to that engagement you're talking about. Right? Yes.
Mike Coffey:Nobody wants to go do drudgery all day long. And that's Right. That's the, you know and, like, even in in our organization, 3 quarters or more of my employees are background investigation analysts, and they're looking at public records all day. They're writing reports. One section's interviewing previous employers.
Mike Coffey:One section's doing really deep dive interviews with maybe applicants and associates. They're doing all these different things, and everybody kind of ends up in a place that they really perform best in, but we pay them a premium once they've cross trained and they have the competencies in all those areas. So like you say, if somebody's out, we're not hamstrung in getting our reports to our clients because we have other people who may not love doing this, but we know they're competent and they and they're, you know, they've got a great team, so they're willing to jump in and and help and do that. So those competencies are good, but people feel need to feel like they're spending their time in it. I remember when I was in corporate America, there was a lot of times where I had projects that were given to me be by a VP of HR or an ops leader that were just stupid.
Mike Coffey:And I was I'm like, I'm pouring hours and hours in this, and I'm I know there's no value on the out. And I think that's that burns your credibility as a leader. And it's certainly the thing that always kept me looking for that next role when I was on the corporate side.
George Rogers:Yeah. And I think and I'll add this and and I'll share as well. Because when it comes to that powerful, intersection of performance development. Right? Engagement.
George Rogers:Engagement really leads to, you know, what we, you know, recognize as recognition as well. Being recognized for the work that you do do, especially when, you know, maybe there's not a higher job title that you can see. Being recognized for the work that you do do is important. When we looked at our peace study, one of the things that we saw, especially from a management standpoint, and even, you know, best management, you know, practices from a performance side of things. Some of the primary goals that that people wanted to see was improvement on their performance, and their development on their career.
George Rogers:Right? And and the succession plan. The other ones was like, how do we measure performance? When the per you know, the the job responsibility and duty is kind of consistent in what it is? How do we set those and define goals within those things and really retain, those high performers?
George Rogers:And so those are some of the strategies. And I bring that up because one of the things that's important for us, and I encourage everybody out there, if you're not using some type of performance management system to kind of gauge, you know, the ROI for your your industry, then then it will lack. One of the things that we saw was that companies who were ineffective, they say, you know, we're kind of ineffective when it comes to our performance process and measuring those ROIs. 40% of them said that they don't train or support for something simple as performance reviews. So if you think of something as simple, a leader being in there, talking to their employees, trying to create that engagement, and, you know, recognize them for things, but they're not trained to do so, that's that's somewhat of a shock.
George Rogers:And so for me, it would be embarrassment, to have that as a company. For those companies who are very effective, 94% of them say, you know, we get we train. We get support, for something as simple as doing performance reviews. And so that goes back to that development training, emphasis on how important it is, to be an effective company.
Mike Coffey:And if and listeners, if you've got your shot glass ready, that's another good morning HR shot, you know, drinking game thing. We always, you know, are talking with so many of our guests when we're talking about leadership is that we have somebody who's a really good, operator. They're really good at the technical role, they're really good at doing the job, maybe they're a team player, so hey, we're you know people like you and and you're good at the job we're gonna make you a manager, and they throw them in there and they don't do that training and, I saw it throughout my corporate career and I've seen it the last 25 years in consulting with clients that that's I think the biggest Achilles heel of so many organizations is that they're not really training their managers and, oh, yeah, it takes time and well, quite honestly, you know, we don't have anybody in house to do it and, you know, we don't want to spend the money or we need to get them right in that position right away and just throw them into the fire or I hear well, that's how I learned, you know, you either you have it or you don't and so I think those are the kind of mistakes employers make because you've that just because somebody is a nice guy, that could be the worst characteristic for a manager.
Mike Coffey:You know, that they're just you know, they happen to be a nice guy. They're you know, and they have a hard time holding somebody accountable. And on the flip side, you know, if they just wanna be good in this role, but they don't know how, you've gotta give them those skills.
George Rogers:Yeah. Yeah. The the worst, and I'm a I'm a witness to I did this a few times. Right? The worst thing to do is to, you know, elevate and promote somebody because they're nice or they've been there for x amount of years and they've been loyal to us.
George Rogers:One of my worst mistakes was taking one of our best technicians and making them a manager. Mhmm. And and then having to have a tough conversation because I moved them out of the right seat. Right? And so, it's important to to measure those things.
George Rogers:And and I always say in in inspect what you expect. If you're expecting something, what are you doing to inspect and make sure that it's done right, and that they're leader right? And I'd rather promote you and pay you your worth and value versus giving you a title, just for the sake of a title. Because and I understand titles mean a lot, especially for the future of work, for some. But man, I would rather pay you a lot and give you the benefits that you deserve, whatever that looks like for you, than to move you out of the position that you're gonna thrive in and then feel miserable later for doing so.
Mike Coffey:And let's take a quick break. Good morning. HR is brought to you by Imperative. Bulletproof background checks with fast and friendly service. If you're an HRCI or SHRM certified professional, this episode of Good Morning HR has been pre approved for 1 half hour of recertification credit.
Mike Coffey:To obtain the recertification information, visit good morning hr.com and click on research credits. Then select episode 163 and enter the keyword meaning, that's m e a n I n g. And if you're looking for even more recertification credit, last week I hosted a 1 hour webinar called background check mythbusters. We discussed the legal use of arrest records, when an employer can inquire into a candidate's criminal history, what limitations may apply to an employer's consideration of criminal history, and much more. The recording of this webinar is pre approved for 1 hour of recertification credit from both HRCI and SHRM.
Mike Coffey:And you can watch it at imperativeinfo.com/webinars. And now back to my conversation with George Rogers. And you mentioned performance, management systems and I think a big part that's missing from so many of those is some sort of measurement. I'm a big believer that I haven't found a position yet that you can't tie a number to that that you can't use, you know, you can't measure what somebody's delivering to the organization. And and so you can see when it rises and you can see when it falls, and you can make adjustments as you need to.
Mike Coffey:Do you have any preferences or ideas around measuring employee performance?
George Rogers:Yeah. I'll say this, and I I can share, an infographic with you or you can visit lhra.io, and under our research tab, infographics And
Mike Coffey:we'll include it. We'll include a link in the in the show notes to that. Yeah.
George Rogers:Yep. And so on this piece study, that I referenced earlier, companies with ineffective practices, number one priority was measuring performance. Right? The highly effective companies, number one priority was improving performance. And so one that was ineffective, you know, measuring the performance, and the other one improving.
George Rogers:The top seven performance practices in use today, and I'll give them to you in order real fast. Number 1 practice is recognition for good performance. Number 2 is focusing on development and leveraging the strengths. So as we talked about just a second ago, if somebody is very strong in a position, don't move them out of that position. If they want to be promoted and and desire more, what are they looking for?
George Rogers:Are they looking for a title? Are they looking for an increase of pay? Have that conversation versus removing them from their strengths. Leverage their strengths, to get them to where they desire. That goes to that relationship where I feel comfortable having those discussions with my direct manager on what I desire, and what I'm seeking, out of those things.
George Rogers:Number 3, which I'm very passionate about and we're seeing a lot of this. We typically see it in the c suite, but now we're seeing in some of the emerging leaders and development leaders, mid mid level managers, where coaching for development is is a high priority. So number 4 is coaching for development. And I think I skipped number 3, which is the annual goal setting. So number 1, I'll repeat it and go back.
George Rogers:Number 1, recognition for good performance. Number 2, focusing on developing and leveraging the strengths. Number 3 is annual goal setting. Number 4 is coaching for development. On that.
George Rogers:Number 5 is peer to peer feedback. That is a top priority. Number 6 is more frequent goal setting. So this is having 2 or more sessions, annually. Not just something that we're going to do once a a year.
George Rogers:This is something that that I like to refer to. Me and my friend Ryan, he uses We call it RSVP. RSVP stands for roles, strengths, values, and purpose. And so having quarterly check ins, with your employees, where you go over, not for you as a manager, but for your employees to say, hey, this is what's different about my role that I need to update you on. If you're like me, George likes to help over there in this department to help out, you know, Sarah or use my creative strengths to somebody else's department.
George Rogers:And so my roles change a little bit, and I need to let you know that. Reminder of the strengths. This is where I feel strong at. Am I my strengths being used within the workplace? Right?
George Rogers:Because if not, people want to be able to connect their strengths. And and being able to do so, a lot of people are fearful to say they're all those strengths because they're afraid the company's gonna use their strengths, but not the company is not using their pocketbook. Right. And so how do we balance that? And then values.
George Rogers:Do my values still align with the company's values? Do I feel like the company's values are being lived on a day? Are they just a moment on the wall or on our, you know, our our little passes as we go through our building and and whatnot? And then, purpose. My desired purpose, of why I work here.
George Rogers:Again, attaching that why we do what we do to the what. The final one, number 7, is in the moment manager feedback. And I mentioned the RSVP, because if we're not doing quarterly check ins, if we're not checking with our employees, I am a believer, Mike, that if you don't check-in with your employees, your employees will eventually check out. Mhmm. Right?
George Rogers:And that goes back to our conversation to begin with. How do you feel? Because how I feel is what I'm gonna believe. If my leader is not checking it with me, if my leader is not, you know, recognizing me and giving you the recognition that I feel like is needed, not just for me, but just for all in general. If I feel like our leader is not in touch or connecting with us, and they're not checking in, more than just a system and process and management style, I'm eventually gonna check out, and we'll see those people that, you know, we label.
George Rogers:And I hate the word, you know, quiet, quit. It's kind of been the trend for a while. Ghosty. But the check the box people, where they just check the box and go for it. And so I encourage people check-in with your employees because if you don't, they eventually will check out.
Mike Coffey:And I think a lot of organizations maybe were doing that when we were fully present in the office, and, we went remote or in hybrid, that FaceTime, that casual conversations, those incidental conversations with employees and leaders has diminished a lot, and I think we're seeing that especially with the millennial generation, and Gen z. They they want more feedback, and I found in our own experience that the younger our employers are employees are the more feedback they want. And so, I mean, we're giving our employees daily. They get their feedback on how what their quality was and productivity was, the day before. Our leaders meet with their employees on an ongoing basis.
Mike Coffey:I meet with all my direct reports once a week. We've got an hour blocked off at Sacrosanct, and they bring their issues. I bring mine, and we talk about whatever's going on. And then we also spend because we're fully remote, with each of of my leads, I bring them into, you know, to a half day meeting 1 on 1 at least once a month just to really give them all my focus so that they know how important that is. And I think a lot of companies are suffering because their their employees wanna be remote, but they don't wanna make you know, that that doesn't mean you can sacrifice that that ongoing feedback.
Mike Coffey:And I think the other thing you said was really interesting was that connection between the feedback from their peers. We had Andrew Prior who's the CHRO of a large software company here in North Texas on, gosh, probably a 100 episodes ago now, but that conversation because they've they've got, systems where, employees can recognize one another through their, you know, intranet or their online network, for performance and for going above and beyond those kinds of things, and there's rewards attached to that. And that he that conversation changed how we do ours. And so now we've set up a peer system where every employee gets a balance of PTO each month that they can award to one another, and they have to tie those rewards to our values. So where this person demonstrated their you know, lived out our values, in an extraordinary way, and I don't think we have anybody who has, at the end of the month, balances on their on their PTO to give away.
Mike Coffey:And so we're and everybody gets recognition, you know, you know, so and so is recognized so and so for for this and then their actual narrative about how this person lived our values. So we're constantly reinforcing our values and what they mean and why we live them this way, but also they those employ those individuals are getting that recognition. So we're we're we're really up against the clock here, but any last thoughts on really improving employee, engagement? I'm gonna include links to your material, the podcast. By the way, the podcast is, again, Champion Your Culture podcast, and, the book is Champion Your Purpose.
Mike Coffey:But last thoughts, George.
George Rogers:Yeah. I'll just encourage people, especially leaders, and I'll speak directly to leaders, and I'm passionate about. My purpose is championing the leaders. Right? And so I encourage you, especially more than ever, one of the things that I've I'm hearing at a lot of these conferences that I'm attending is from employees, is they don't hear us.
George Rogers:They don't hear us. And when I ask what they mean, they say this. They say, we'll bring something to a leader. And the leader wants to fix it, or fix me. And it's it's so important to
Mike Coffey:understand that when people are talking, Mike, when we're having a conversation, or
George Rogers:I'm coming to you and I'm coming to you and I'm confiding to you about frustrations or irritations, and I remind you, frustrations is a sign of investment. Frustrations is not a bad thing. I used to get so irritated when employees were not frustrated about work, because I didn't feel like they were invested. When the stock market crashed in 2008, at that time, I had no frustrations. I wasn't worried because I wasn't invested.
George Rogers:Now, if the stock crashed today, I'm a be a little frustrated because I have some investments in it. Frustrations is a sign of investments, but it's behind the frustration. What is bothering them? What's the issue? And when somebody speaks to us as leaders, they're not speaking to us for us to fix them.
George Rogers:They're speaking to us to hear them. And sometimes that hearing is just simply that. It's not for you to go behind and say, alright, this is what you need to do. No. Just hear their voice and understand it for what it is for that moment, and let it be just that.
George Rogers:Let them talk. Hear them. Don't try to fix them.
Mike Coffey:It's just like a marriage.
George Rogers:It is. It's it's the conversation.
Mike Coffey:Something and I say and I and and, you know, she married it's it's, you know, part of the shame is on her. She married an entrepreneur, and, you know, my my gut instinct is okay. You bring me a problem. I fix it. That's what I do for a living, and that's the it's what makes me happy.
Mike Coffey:But sometimes you're right. Just gotta listen, acknowledge, and, you know, and I've got long and long term employees who've gone through personal crises in their lives and things, and often I can say yeah. I can think in the back of my head, well, here's how you fix that. You get rid of that bomb or you do this or you, you know, and I just oh, wow. That's really tough.
Mike Coffey:What do you need from me to help you get through this? And I just have to shut up and and and go from there. Well, that's all the time we have. Thanks for joining me, George. I really appreciate it.
Mike Coffey:I hope
George Rogers:I have your pleasure. I would love to. Thank you so much for having me.
Mike Coffey:And thank you for listening. You can comment on this episode or search our previous episodes at goodmorninghr.com or on Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube. And don't forget to follow us wherever you get your podcast. Rob Upchurch is our technical producer, and you can reach him at robmakespods.com. And thank you to Imperative's marketing coordinator, Mary Anne Hernandez, who keeps the trains running on time, which basically means keeping me running on time.
Mike Coffey:And I'm Mike Coffey. As always, don't hesitate to reach out. I can be of service to you personally or professionally. I'll see you next week and until then, be well, do good, and keep your chin up.