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Rise Above: a podcast from Rogers Behavioral Health takes listeners on a journey of education and inspiration as we sit down with mental health and addiction experts and past patients who are changing how the world views mental health and addiction.
It's a tough realization, you know, that everyone else can dedicate themselves to school and or whatever else they choose to to do at that point in their lives. But when you have this thing that you're living with that is ready to take over at any moment, you have to prioritize and, like, I call it live the the ERP lifestyle because it's not just doing exposures anymore. It's it's real life.
Andy - host:You're listening to Rise Above, a Rogers behavioral health podcast where we sit down with Rogers experts who are changing the way the world views mental health and addiction. Hello, listeners. Welcome to another episode of Rise Above, a podcast from Rogers Behavioral Health. That voice you heard in the intro is from a former patient here at Rogers. Her name is Victoria.
Andy - host:I actually I met Victoria. She was a speaker at a groundbreaking ceremony for a new Rogers residential building, And she spoke so highly and passionately about her time here at Rogers that I thought immediately we've gotta get her to share her story on a podcast. So without wasting too much more time, I just wanted to get right into it. Victoria, thank you so much for being here.
Victoria:Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here.
Andy - host:So where does your mental health journey begin when you think about your story?
Victoria:So I would say that I have had OCD my entire life, but the impairment part really began when I was in high school. I started getting these very odd thoughts. So for example, like, if you don't get a 100% on your test, your brother will die. And at the time, I I knew that that was a very illogical thought that that didn't make sense, that that wasn't going to happen. Right?
Victoria:And I thought it was weird. I dismissed it and moved forward, you know, with my day. But pretty soon after, those thoughts started sticking way more. And what I mean by sticking is I would question them. So the hard part about OCD is that people have insight.
Victoria:Like, we know when we have intrusive thoughts that they're not logical, but our brain doesn't recognize them as that. They're still just as threatening as if we thought that they were they were real thoughts. So my reaction in my body, like, my fight or flight was was always on. Right? Because my reaction to having the thought of if I don't get a 100% on my test, my brother's gonna die is equivalent to if that were actually true.
Victoria:And it was a very quick period from when, like, the escalation period was very quick. I went from being able to function pretty well despite still having these intrusive thoughts to shutting down because they were coming, in the beginning, six, seven hours a day and then up to twelve, sixteen hours a day. At my worst, I remember I I was having intrusive thoughts throughout the day while I was, you know, while I was awake. And pretty much the only way to escape it was to go to sleep. And I remember I was like, I just I can't handle this right now, so I'm gonna take a nap.
Victoria:I'm gonna avoid I just didn't have any strategies at the time to to deal with with these thoughts. I didn't know what was going on in my head. And that night, I actually or when I napped, I actually dreamt about my intrusive thoughts. And I'm like, oh my gosh. There's no escaping.
Victoria:You really cannot escape your mind, which you kinda have to laugh at it. Right? It's like, oh my god. Even in your your sleep, you can't you can't catch a break. But I think it really just speaks to how far OCD goes in terms of the impairment piece.
Victoria:Like, it attaches on to things that you value the most, and it will stop at nothing to take over your entire brain. So I started getting these thoughts, and I got a lot of harm thoughts. So there's different types of OCD. Right? People are most familiar with contamination OCD or just right symmetry OCD.
Victoria:But a big a big piece of OCD is intrusive thoughts, and there's some intrusive thoughts that most people don't talk about just because they're referred to as, like, taboo thoughts. So thoughts about, hurting yourself or hurting someone else. And there's a really big difference between those thoughts, whether it's egocentonic or dystonic. Right? So if I have this thought that, let's say, I'm gonna hurt myself, do I actually want to hurt myself?
Victoria:Do I agree with that thought, or do I or does that thought scare me? My my OCD very much centers around these harm o c OCD thoughts primarily about harming myself. And so when I was 17, I I really needed a lot of help. I was currently getting treatment at a local intensive outpatient program back at home where I used to live. I'm not from Wisconsin.
Victoria:So different levels of care support different severity of OCD. Correct? So they did not have postdimensional, they didn't have a partial hospitalization program, which is the six hour program a day. They only had IOP.
Andy - host:How did you get into therapy? What did I mean, did your parents notice? Did you talk to someone about this beforehand that said, hey. You should probably get professional help for this.
Victoria:Yeah. That's a great question. I did not wanna be in therapy. I absolutely even though I wasn't functioning, I hated it. I didn't think that I needed it or at at least I didn't want it.
Victoria:So my parents brought me to outpatient therapists who majority of the time didn't know what they were talking about. In terms of OCD, I should say, specifically, like, they provide talk therapy, which not only doesn't help OCD, it actually makes it worse because they're feeding into your your obsessions and providing reassurance. So I went through probably three or four different outpatient providers who who didn't really know what they were talking about. And then someone finally said this was over the course of maybe a year or so. Someone finally said, you know, she has OCD.
Victoria:And so at that point, they referred us to the intensive outpatient program in in my hometown. And, thankfully, they got the diagnosis correct. I know for a lot of people that that doesn't happen. And, actually, the average amount of time it takes to get a proper diagnosis is sixteen years for people with OCD. So I was very fortunate in that in that aspect.
Andy - host:So after being diagnosed with OCD, how did that change how you went about getting treatment?
Victoria:Mhmm. Yes. So it was interesting because when I look back on it now, you know, I was told that I had OCD, but it really did not matter to me. So, you know, they said, Victoria, you have OCD. And I'm like, okay.
Victoria:Great. Thanks for telling me. Move let's move forward because all of I still have all these thoughts in my head and something's still wrong and I can't function. Right? So I think it speaks to how severe the disorder was at the time because I wasn't even, you know, as a 16, 17 year old, you'd be able to step back for a second and say, oh, okay.
Victoria:I have this diagnosis. Let me look it up. Let me understand what it does, what its impact is. But I was just so deep in the holes, so deep inside my brain that I wasn't able to reflect on that and understand what was really happening. So for me, I got the diagnosis, but I really it didn't I I didn't really care.
Victoria:All that I cared about was that I was being tormented by these thoughts, and that was not the OCD that I had ever heard of before.
Andy - host:You weren't even thinking that this OCD diagnosis had anything to do with what your issue was?
Victoria:Correct. Yeah. I wasn't putting them together. It's like, okay. I have OCD maybe surrounding, like, some perfectionism stuff.
Victoria:But
Andy - host:But, like, great. What about what I'm dealing with right now?
Victoria:Exactly. I didn't realize that those intrusive thoughts that I was having, it was part of the OCD.
Andy - host:Did that I mean, when did that connect?
Victoria:That's a good question. I think that connected maybe a month or so into treatments. I I started exposure and response prevention at this outpatient facility, and there was a lot of psychoeducation about what it was and what is OCD and what's not OCD as well. But when I started doing these exposures, the exposures were far too challenging for me just because, again, I was still at an outpatient level of care at the time, and I needed a much higher level of care. I was just being flooded by my anxiety.
Victoria:And the whole point of exposure and response prevention is to gradually introduce yourself to these exposures so your brain learns. You can feel a little bit of anxiety, but then you habituate and you understand your brain understands, oh, I'm not actually in danger. Right? Is my brain overreacting? But when you're flooded with anxiety, your brain doesn't come to that same realization.
Victoria:All it's realizing is, oh my god. I am in danger. So I wasn't habituating like I should be, which ultimately led me to say led my parents to say, like, look. This this isn't working. She's been at this local program for more than six months, which is very unheard of.
Victoria:Usually, it's four to six weeks. But I just was not making any sort of progress. I ended up staying there a couple more months before finding out about Rogers. And when my parents told me about Rogers, I was really scared. I I mean, I was I was little.
Victoria:I'd never been away from home before. All my friends were talking about where they wanted to go to university and, you know, planning their graduation parties, and that just wasn't my reality. And I was really upset about it. I did not wanna get treatments, but I think even young Victoria understood that. What's my other option?
Victoria:You know? I I'm not functioning in any capacity in any area of my life, whether that be dance or at school or with friends or family. And so it just it gets to the point where it's like, I truly have no no other option. Like, you hit rock bottom and then you kind of I don't wanna say you're okay with it, but you buy into it.
Andy - host:When you find out about Rogers, you find out, about residential care. Right? What what goes through your head when you realize, like, there is a treatment program that I could be in that I I just live there?
Victoria:It was very strange for me because prior to learning about Rogers, I had never heard of mental health treatment or physical health treatment for that matter where you move somewhere for months and you live there. Like, I just yeah. I just didn't I didn't know that that was an option. And so when I heard that I would go to live there, the first thing I thought was like, well, no. Because that means I can't go to school.
Victoria:I can't go to college. And the first time leaving home, you don't expect to go to a mental health facility.
Andy - host:You expected it to be a university or something. Right?
Victoria:Yeah. Exactly.
Andy - host:So how did you make that decision then that this was the answer or this was what was needed? I
Victoria:I didn't, to be honest. My parents told me that I was doing it. And looking back, it's kinda funny now. I know, like, I was an adult. I was I just had just had turned 18.
Victoria:Yeah. A spot opened up in the program. And, yeah, it's funny because now I know I could have said no and signed myself out. But I think even if I did that, I I would have ended up right back in the same place. Right?
Victoria:Because the level of impairment was just so severe. Like, kind of what life looked like at home was to prevent myself from being triggered by these intrusive thoughts about harm. There was accommodations in the household. Like, my parents got rid of all of the knives in our house, even plastic knives. Think my family learned to adapt pretty fast about how to cut things with with forks and spoons just because the moment I saw that, it triggered a thought.
Victoria:Right? And, you know, I didn't it got to a point where I didn't even need to see the physical object to be triggered. It's just my brain automatically thinks about that stuff. But I couldn't look at anything red because I associated red with with blood, and blood was danger. Right?
Victoria:And for people with mental compulsions versus physical compulsions, you you don't see them doing it. Right? So you can see someone washing their hands. You can see the fact that their hands are all bloody and, you know, look like they've been washing their hands with bleach or hundreds of times a day. But with the mental compulsions, you can't see them.
Victoria:So people don't know that you're doing them necessarily. And for the physical compulsions that I did have, I was really good at hiding them. I think even from my family and my friends who knew what I was going through just because I knew it. I knew how crazy I would sound explaining this to people. Like, one of my biggest intrusive thoughts was stabbing myself in the throat.
Victoria:And so I would, like, grab both of my hands and put them up like this to protect myself because somehow that compulsion Somehow
Andy - host:holding your throat would yeah.
Victoria:Yeah. Yeah. And so I I knew that sounded crazy logically. Right? But the way that my body reacting again was as if that was a true thought that was, you know, that was going to happen.
Victoria:So I got really good at hiding them, and I think most people with with OCD do just because we know it's it's odd, but our body still reacts like that.
Andy - host:And we will be right back. Real quick, I wanted to take a moment to talk to you about WISE, the initiative for stigma elimination. It unites people across the nation to support those touched by mental illness and addiction. The compassionate approach champions personal stories and powerful connections, fostering healing by reducing stigma through evidence practices. Rogers Behavioral Health supports the work of WISE through their community learning and engagement department.
Andy - host:WISE collaborates with a diverse network of organizations and individuals united in the fight against stigma. You can learn more about WISE, explore their four key programs, and connect with them by visiting the website www.eliminatestigma.org. And now back to the interview. So you get to Rogers. What's showing up there like?
Victoria:Yeah. I was really, really scared. My dad drove me from my dad drove me up to Wisconsin, so we road tripped. And that was at the time Taylor Swift's 1989 album had just come out. So we were listening to that on repeat the whole seven hour drive.
Victoria:He still my dad still knows every word to every song on that album. So he was the trooper for listening to that. But I got to Rogers. My my mom and my little brother stayed home, and it was it was tough on my brother too because he didn't understand what was happening. And people were asking him, you know, like, where's your sister?
Victoria:Or, like, you know, what's what's going on? And so it puts siblings in a tough position as well. But Yeah. I get to Rogers. I was completely overwhelmed.
Victoria:I remember I curled up in a ball in one of the hallways, and that was my first night there. And one of the RCs is what they called them at the time, you know, came over and started talking to me. And I think it was at that point that I knew, like, oh my gosh. These people can actually help me. Because even though I had been around mental health professionals before, there was no reduction in symptoms.
Victoria:Right? So why would I think that I ever could get better? They were promising an improvement in in symptoms. Right? And it just made my OCD worse.
Victoria:So after talking to that that RC
Andy - host:What I was gonna ask, what about that interaction made you feel that way?
Victoria:I think it was just how how welcoming she was and how understanding she was of OCD because I didn't have to explain myself. I didn't have to educate anyone, educate her on why I was having these thoughts and put in this like, make a note of but I actually you know, I don't wanna hurt myself. I was used to explaining it to people that didn't know what it was. So I think just the fact that she understood what understood the disorder, understood why I was there and what I was going through and, you know, worked with these patients like me every day. Just that familiarity was really comforting to me, and the fact that, like, yeah, maybe there's hope here.
Andy - host:So do you remember a moment when a light bulb went on or, you know, a moment where you went, wait a second. I'm getting better.
Victoria:That's a good question. Yes. I I do. It was probably well, there's a couple different moments. Right?
Victoria:Because Yeah. There's small improvements along the way. Totally. So when you complete one thing on the hierarchy, right, you move forward, and it's like it's a little win, but those little wins are really hard to to appreciate. It's like, okay.
Victoria:I've habituated to a picture of a paper clip. Like Mhmm. But there's moment where you're able
Andy - host:there's a moment where you're able to look back at a whole series of them and realize how far you've come.
Victoria:Yeah. I think so. Probably the the first time that I drove my car, I wasn't able to drive because I got intrusive thoughts about crashing into other people, hurting someone else, hurting myself. So I wasn't driving at the time even though I was over 16 and and had a license. And I think the first time I had that freedom and got in the car and could play my music.
Victoria:And I I just went literally down the street, but it was this this feeling of freedom that I was like, wow. I it put things in perspective of just how much this disorder had taken away from me and how much I really wanted to dedicate myself to this treatment and the process and getting better because there were signs that maybe it was possible that I could become better.
Andy - host:So this might not go on the podcast. But wait. Were you driving your car while you were in treatment?
Victoria:Mhmm. Yeah. They do driving exposures.
Andy - host:No way. I okay. So how does Yeah. So so you've you've been in treatment for a a little while, and then they're like, hey. Time to go for a drive?
Victoria:So I built up to it. I mean, I, like, sat in the driver's seat for a long time. Like, I did exposures just on that for a long time to, because even that made me anxious. And then I sat in the driver's seat with the engine on. And then I sat in the driver's seat and put the car into drive, but my foot was still on the brake.
Victoria:So it was this very, like, slow progression. But, yes, they they do do driving exposures. I'm sure things have changed in the last ten years and just what they're able to do. Yeah. But, yeah, they would they my behavioral specialist would come with me and do these, like, in vivo real world exposures, because not everything can be replicated inside that the building.
Victoria:Right?
Andy - host:Sure. So how long were you in residential? And then when it was time to leave, did you know it was time to leave? Did your team know it was time for you to leave and you didn't feel like it was yet? How did that go?
Victoria:Looking back, I always say that the scariest part of my whole experience in this was when my treatment team said, like, we're you know, you're making progress, and it's time to step you down. And I was I was terrified. Like, as scared as I was to go into the program, I was 10 times scared or to leave. More 10 times more scared to leave the program. Because what I come to know is people understood me, and they could support me, and they challenged me.
Victoria:And this is the first time that I'd made any sort of progress or felt like I could be a normal human being again. Right? So who would wanna leave that? In my head, it was very much like these people, this program. And I ended up staying for four months, which is a pretty long time to stay in residential care.
Victoria:The reason for that being I also have panic disorder. And so we had to do interoceptive exposures, which are exposures to recreate physical sensations in your body. So you're basically exposing yourself to anxiety and habituating to those feelings first. Like, understanding, okay. I can feel anxious in my body, but I'm not gonna pass out.
Victoria:Or if I do, you know, that's an uncertainty that I I have to sit with. So it was kind of like this two step process of inter interoceptive exposures first and then the OCD exposures. So, yeah, I was I was there for four months and around, I'd say, three months, they they brought it up, and then I needed about another month to to help make that transition. And really understand that, like, yes, they provided me the skills that I needed and the tools that I needed, but, like, I needed that time to really understand that I could do it by myself and, like, have faith that or have that trust that I could do the same exposures that I was doing in an outpatient setting, if that makes sense.
Andy - host:Yeah. Yes. So Yeah. So you stepped down, and what what did that how did that transition work for
Victoria:you? Mhmm. So, yes, I stepped down from residential to partial hospitalization. And, you know, keep in mind that my family was still in Saint Louis. So now I wasn't living in a residential program, so I just got an apartment close by.
Victoria:And I was I was there. I still went to treatment six hours a day, still did these exposures. But afterwards, I would go back to my apartment at, like, in the evening, and then I'd have that time to myself, which was really, really terrifying.
Andy - host:Well, I was gonna ask. Okay. So now you've moved now you're in a state without your family. You've got your own apartment. Did you get a job?
Victoria:Like, how what is yeah. Yeah. I I did not get a job just because still I wasn't at that level of functioning yet. I think there's this understanding or at least I initially thought that, like, when you discharge from residential, you're you're functioning. You're you're back to normal.
Victoria:You're good. Right. Your anxiety is reduced. You're not feeling anxious. The OCD is is not taken over, and that really wasn't true.
Victoria:My anxiety was, I'd say, still just as high, but I had the tools that I needed to move forward. So at that point, I definitely treatment still needed to be the priority for me. I don't think I would have been successful in being able to work at the same time. Some people do, and I give them props for it. But I think at that time, I just I really needed to stay focused on treatment that needed to be priority.
Victoria:So I yeah. It was it was really terrifying. I mean, I didn't have any friends here. My family wasn't here. I read books.
Victoria:I watched movies. I explored Wisconsin. I really love it here. The natural beauty is just I love going to parks. And Well, yeah.
Victoria:I just explored the area.
Andy - host:You you didn't end up going back to Missouri. You live in Wisconsin. What do you what are you doing now?
Victoria:Yeah. So, actually, I I did go back to Missouri
Andy - host:when I was done.
Victoria:Yep. So I went back to Missouri. I did the same IOP program that I did prior to to leaving. And then at that point, it was December 2025. So school had already or 2025, not 2025.
Victoria:Oh my god. That hasn't happened yet. December '20, '15. So, you know, all my friends at that point were in college. I had missed the start of the school year.
Victoria:I wasn't ready to jump full time back into school, so I took that gap year and continued working on treatment on exposures that entire time. And then slowly, next year, I introduced myself to I went to university and, you know, started with a couple classes, still kept up with my exposures and and my therapy, and then just kinda slowly titrated more and more classes until I was was full time. And then I was able to to graduate. I did it in five years. You know, there was a lot of I'd wanted to finish in four years, but I I think if I would have pushed myself to do it in four, I don't think I would have been able to maintain the same gains that I would have made in treatment.
Victoria:So it was really important for me to prioritize treatment because I knew that, ultimately, if I wasn't making progress with my OCD, then there's no way I could be in school. So fast forward a couple years, I had the opportunity to come back to Rogers, actually, an intern with them. I came up in the summers, like, of course, during the nice nice part of Wisconsin weather.
Andy - host:It's nice to hear all the time, people.
Victoria:I was really fortunate to come in a good time. But so I did research, and I did research actually out of the the building next to Cedar Ridge, the re the little research cottage where it was just a couple people on a couple people in the program. It wasn't an official Rogers Research Center yet. So I did that for three years. I really loved that experience, and I realized that this is the field that I wanted to to dedicate myself to.
Victoria:So I I graduated with my bachelor's in psychology and then ended up getting my master's in clinical psychology. And I became a clinician. So I loved research. I loved the clinical side of things as well, which I think typically people either really like research or really like clinical work and prefer one over the other, but I really do love, both of those things. So I worked as a therapist at the, residential child center for, two to three years.
Victoria:And then I transitioned to the research center. And so now I'm I'm working here and doing work in the adolescent population for a bunch of different things. Some of the stuff is for for OCD and just some other pretty amazing work Rogers is doing, but I'm really happy to be here at the research center right now.
Andy - host:And we will be right back. Everyone deserves a chance for recovery. That's what drives Rogers Behavioral Health Foundation. They're helping people get the mental health care they need from covering treatment costs for those in need to building clinics where care is hard to find to funding cutting edge research. They're making real change happen.
Andy - host:And guess what? You can help. Head to rogersbhfoundation.org and be part of creating a future where mental health and wellness thrive. And now back to the interview. So can I ask you, what do you wish more people understood about OCD?
Victoria:I wish people understood that you cannot be a little OCD. You know, everyone has intrusive thoughts, but the whole reason that it's a disorder is that it impairs functioning. The impairment is the disorder part, and it's you can't tease those apart.
Andy - host:Do you feel like your experience benefits you in what you do here at Rogers?
Victoria:Yeah. Absolutely. I think it benefited me as a clinician in multiple ways because I was really able to understand what the kids were going through. I mean, I had just turned 18, and it was scary for me to leave home. And my friends and family and the kids I was working with were eight, nine, 10, 11 years old, you know, like, the bravest kids that I've ever known and ever worked with.
Victoria:And so even though I'm not communicating to them, you know, that I have OCD or that I have this past, I think there's just this level of connection that unless you've been through it yourself, unless you've been at that patient level, you really you can't truly understand the experience and and what people are going through. So I think it just led to a a different level of empathy and compassion that I was really happy to to bring to the role.
Andy - host:What advice would you give to either child, a young adult that's starting treatment for OCD and don't know what to expect? What advice would you give them?
Victoria:I would say that you really have to dedicate yourself to treatment, whether that whether you're in a residential program and that's what you're doing twenty four seven or you go once a week to an outpatient therapist. You really have to buy into the treatment and lean into it. As a clinician, we talk about white knuckling. So doing the exposures, getting through them, but you're not really feeling the anxiety rise and fall. You're kind of just holding on for dear life and not fully engaging with with the treatment.
Victoria:And there's no there's no way around it. It's like the scene from finding Nemo where, you know, they try to go above the jellyfish, not through them. And there there's no shortcut. Right? It's like you're gonna get stung if if you if you go around and not through.
Victoria:So you the only way to go is through. And, you know, as long as you are with a team that understands OCD and is doing evidence based treatments, like, trust your team. Lean all the way into treatment because it can make a difference, but you have to give it a 100% because OCD will always want more. It will always try to take things from you throughout our lives. Right?
Victoria:And so it's just, like, constant battle. But when you're getting treatment and you I think dedicating yourself and fully leaning into it is the only real way to to be able to live a life that's either free from obsessions and compulsions or a life where the obsessions and compulsions don't impair me from doing the things that I wanna do.
Andy - host:Victoria, thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story today. I really appreciate it. It was great talking to you.
Victoria:Thank you so much for having me. I loved being here and appreciate you taking the time to chat.
Andy - host:Well, listener, thank you so much for listening to another episode of Rise Above. I love having conversations like this, just knowing that it's possible that one person listening might feel a little less alone or find hope because of what Victoria was talking about. She's a testament that help is out there and that healing is possible. Obviously, if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who might benefit, and don't forget to subscribe for more inspiring stories and useful information from the world of mental health. As always, if you or someone you care about is struggling with a mental health or substance use disorder, visit rogersbh.org for a free mental health screening.
Andy - host:And until next time, take care of yourself. Happy New Year, and thanks for listening.