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Building Doors is a podcast about Inspiring Leaders who have created their own opportunities and are thought leaders, industry advocates and change makers in their field. This podcast gives you the resources, insights and steps to stop waiting for opportunities and start building your doors for success. Listen to this podcast to gain the resources, career tips and hands-on advice on how you can gain clarity and build doors in your own life and career.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Welcome to the Building Doors Podcast, Jenn.
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
So excited to have you. I'm going to tell the audience a little bit about your story for those that don't know you. So Jenn Drummond achieved business success as the founder and CEO of a thriving financial services company. Her move to Park City, Utah, with her kids fed her family's passion for everything outdoors, from hiking and biking to skiing and mountain climbing. But on a snowy evening in 2018, Jenn's life was knocked off its tracks. She was in a horrific car accident that brought her inches from death. All the authorities and experts agreed that she shouldn't have survived, yet somehow she did. In the aftermath of that brush with death, it became crystal clear to Jenn that while she can't control when she dies, she and the rest of us can choose how we live. Jenn's confrontation with death imbued her with vigor, enthusiasm, and commitment for full engagement in her life.
Now, more than ever, she's focused on becoming an inspiration guide and cheerleader, not just for her own children, but for all of us. She now spends her time inspiring others to live a full life of significance. Her book, Break Proof: Seven Strategies to Build Resilience and Achieve Your Life Goals, shares her story and strategies for success, a success proof mindset. On June 1st, 2023, Jenn Drummond summited Mount Logan, completing her quest to become the first woman in history to climb the seven-second summits. Her journey of setbacks and triumphs is inspiring to millions worldwide, attempting to accomplish their own audacious goals. Wow. I was reading your story before you came on, and I just thought, "What an amazing woman," and just the resilience and the mindset that you've had to have. So take us back or share with us the story of your life altering car accident and how that changed your perspective on your own life and goals.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, so I'm driving home on December 18th, 2018. The reservoir on the side of the road catches my attention and I'm thinking like, "Oh, I wonder when it's going to freeze over," all the things. And then my attention gets brought back to the road, and I'm coming up really hot on a semi. So the semi's going slower than a snail, and I'm like, "Okay, I need to get in the other lane to not hit him." So I go to get into the other lane and I don't make it. So the trailer, so he was pulling two semi beds. So the trailer hit my passenger side, and I remember... I watched it happen, and I'm like, "Okay, am I going to die?"
No, I got the feeling that I wasn't going to die. And so then I held onto the steering wheel. I kept my head on the headrest, and I remember being like, "I need to relax," because if you relax, you're going to roll with the car instead of against it, and I'm not going to be able to fight the speed that this car's going. So I did one roll, two rolls, three rolls, and then the momentum started slowing down. So I started doing sideways rolls, and then I ended up upside down in the median. And I remember this guy coming to me, he's like, "Are you okay? Are you okay?" I looked at him, I'm like, "Okay, he's talking to me. I don't know if I'm okay based on his facial expression. I'm too afraid to look if I'm okay, because I feel really warm right now." So I closed my eyes and I wiggled my fingers and toes and I said out loud, "I can feel my fingers and toes. I can feel my fingers and toes. I'm okay."
He's like, "You're going to be okay." So the ambulance came, took me to the hospital, ran a whole bunch of tests just to make sure I was okay. I got home and I walked in that front door and I saw my kids. I was like, "Wow," it's so close to not ever walking in this front door again. So close to everything being done. And when I looked at it like that, I'm done. I have So Much to give and do and see and experience. I've been putting my life on hold because I have these kids. I'm like, "Oh, I'm a stay-at-home mom, and I'm going to do this mom thing." I'm grateful for people that are stay at-home moms and love it. I was a stay-at-home mom and didn't love it. And I kept telling myself, "Okay, well once they get to college, then I'll do me. Once they get there, then I'll do me." And I think all of us listening know that, if then. Once I'm there, then I get to be happier.
Once I'm there, then I arrived or whatever, and I realized my life's a gift, their life's a gift, and living is the gift back. And So I had a talk with my kids and I said, "Hey, listen, mom's going to start doing some things that she likes, and it's going to change up the dynamics of our family a little bit. So we just Need to talk about it. Is it working for you? Is it not working for you? How do we go? But mom wants to start doing stuff that she's interested in again, and she hasn't really been doing a lot of that." So 2019 became this year of who am I? What do I even like to eat? What's my favorite color? What's it... You Just get so lost into the monotony of life and just the flow of everything that's happening. 2019, I made a bucket list of all the things I wanted to see do and experience, which is going to take four lifetimes to make happen. So I just started finding out who Jenn was and saying, "I am a mom and I'm these other things."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
It's interesting as well, when you look at what is often sold in the media as a good mom. What's a good mom? Self-sacrificing. All of these qualities that... And I went through the same journey when I had children. All these qualities that we see. I'm like, "Well, I've got to be a good mom, so I've got to put the kids first." But how can we tell our children to live their dreams if we're not living ours? So tell me about that moment forward from you. What was it like reestablishing that family dynamic then with you doing things that you were passionate about? How did you feel and what impact did that have on the family?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, of course at first it's wobbly. Anything new, is this right or is it wrong? There's just so much doubt. It's messy in the middle of all this stuff. I remember journaling, and I bought a pack of pens, and every day I would journal in a different color. And it was like, "Oh, if I journal in red, then I feel like I'm correcting myself. If I journal in yellow, it's happy, but I can't see it." So just different things like that. I made myself go out to dinner once a week and then it was like, "Do I want Mexican? Do I want Italian? Do I want sushi? What am I even interested in? If someone took me out to dinner, what would I even order?" I'm so used to eating chicken nuggets and leftover, whatever, peanut butter and jelly, whatever anybody's plate. So it was that kind of thing. I was turning 40 in 2020, so I was looking at my bucket list. I'm like, "I'm going to do something significant for my 40th birthday." And I decided I was going to climb a mountain.
I had climbed one mountain before in Jackson Hole called the Grand Teton. I loved the experience. I loved being outdoors. I loved being in nature, away from the noise of life. And so I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to climb a mountain for my 40th." And I asked some friends that were big mountaineers, "Hey, if you could climb one mountain in the whole world, what would it be?" And the general consensus was a mountain named Ama Dablam. Okay. It's located in Nepal. It's the Paramount Pictures logo. Okay, so people can picture it now, typically. And it meant the mother's necklace. I'm like, "I have seven kids. This is perfect. The mother's necklace, dah, dah, dah, dah." So I started training for that, and that was probably the first big thing that I stepped into.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And did you always have that on your bucket list pre-kids, or was that something that you went after that life altering experience and decided to pursue?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah. It's funny. When I was in college, I took a class called Healing, Dying and Thriving. It was the only class available and I needed the credit. It was not a class I was excited about taking. And of course, it's my favorite class that I took in college once I was done with it. But signing up for it, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, just give me the credits." And we had to interview people that were in hospice. So hospice means you're going to die within the next 12 months. And I remember interviewing a lady and I said, one of the questions I asked, I'm like, "Okay, if you could go back to your younger self, what would you tell her?"
She goes, "I'd tell her to do her at all costs. Who cares what everybody's opinion is? Just do you?" And I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to take that to heart." So I had a list of things I wanted to do then. I got into finance, which is another career that teaches you set goals, achieve them, save money, make them happen. Then I had kids, and then all hell hit loose. Who knows what my goals are? My goals are everybody is fed and in bed.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Bedtime, you're at the places you need to be.
Jenn Drummond:
Yes, we have socks on. All the little simple things. That's what my goals ended up being. So it was teaching myself to dream again and think about, there's a lot of things this world has to offer.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
What advice would you give a stay-at-home mom that might be listening now, that may be feeling like they've lost themselves a little bit? If you could think back now, after your whole experience, what advice would you give yourself back then?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, I would look back and I would say, "Okay, I'm a mom now." And it's the most awe-inspiring thing ever. Anybody who gets to be a mom that wants to be a mom, it's amazing. But learning how to have boundaries on your time and understand that you're still you. You're not only a mom. And if you look at your calendar and your calendar is 99.9% mom things, start getting 5% back for you, and then maybe even increase that a little bit. But it's hard at first, but it's so important.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I think we need to take away the guilt from that. Mom guilt is real. And I think if people don't feel guilty about taking that 5%, then maybe you can edge it to 10, and slowly implement it.
Jenn Drummond:
And 10%. What? 10% of my life is for me?
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
That doesn't seem fair.
Jenn Drummond:
It doesn't seem fair, but still, it's crazy how hard it is to do. I don't want to discount that piece.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Exactly.
Jenn Drummond:
It is so hard. And here's what worked for me. All of a sudden I'm looking at my son, I'm like, "Would I want my son to have my life?" And when I use that as my thermometer of, no, I want my son to be him a hundred percent and do these other roles that he has, But I don't want him... So when I'm making decisions, would I want Jack to do this? Would I want Jana to do this? Would I want Julia to do this? That kind of says, "Yeah, no, not today," or "Yes, I would." Then that's my way of saying, "Yeah, then I should do this because I need to show them what it's like to be a healthy mom and a healthy individual."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And I think you've hit the nail on the head there, where holding yourself to the standard that you hold for your children. We want the best for our children. Why would we not want that for ourselves as well? So becoming the first woman in history to climb the seven summits is a remarkable achievement. What are some of the key lessons that you learned in that journey or through that journey that you think we can now apply in our own lives?
Jenn Drummond:
Oh yeah, no, endless. Every journey I think we gives us endless lessons along the way. I think a big one for me was waving our flag. So it's fun to wave your flag at the top of a mountain. I made it, here I am. It's the summit, photos. We've all seen summit photos of people saying, "Here we are." Having the courage and the vulnerability and the ability to wave your flag down, the entire pursuit, I think is so important. And often we don't give that enough credit. So for example, I didn't want to share this seven second summit journey until I was done. I wanted to accomplish it first and then talk about it because I didn't want all the messy to be shared, because the journey is always messy. But I did, I shared it. My girlfriends convinced me, "Hey, you're doing this during COVID. We're never going to get to any of these countries or see any of these places, please share the journey so that we can be a part of it."
I'm like, "Oh, okay, that makes sense." So I did. And for example, one of the climbs is in Kenya, and it's Called Mount Kenya, and I was saving it for the end because it's a more technical climb, And I wasn't a technical climber, so I had to build up that skillset. Well, somebody found out that that was one of my mountains. They were involved in a charity over in Kenya, And they said, "Hey, we need to deliver this ambulance for our charity, but it would save us a lot of money if you were already going there than sending another individual and doing all the PR part of it. Would you be open to partnering with us and making this happen?" Yeah. A hundred percent.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Of course.
Jenn Drummond:
Are you kidding me? So because I was waving my flag of "Here's what I want to do," it signaled to the world, "Here's what I need, here's how I can help." And so it was perfect. So then I started training more so that I could have the technical skills. I went over there, helped with that piece, got to climb the mountain, come home. And it made that journey so much more amazing because of that experience. Well, no one would've known about that if I wasn't waving my flag along the pursuit.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Exactly.
Jenn Drummond:
And it happened again in K2 in 2021. So I went to summit K2 and a teammate died in an Avalanche. Yeah. It was terrible. Another one lost his hand of frostbite. It was just one of those expeditions where a lot of things were going wrong. And so I only got to camp three, And so I'm like, "Great, this is as high as my flag's going to get this year." I came home, processed all that loss and things, and then was going back, because it's one of my climbs, so I have to do it. Well, before I went back, someone called me and said, "Hey, are you coming back this year? I know you need to do this climb. Yeah, I do. There's a female climber that wants to be the first Pakistani to stand on top of her country's prized peak."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Oh, wow.
Jenn Drummond:
"Is there something that... Can you bring gear over?" There's stuff that you can do to make this easier for her?" I'm like, "Yes." Right? So then I went back to climb in 2022. I summited. Okay, cool. What was cooler is 30 minutes later, the first Pakistani female stands on top of the summit of K2. And You sit there and think people knew what I was doing and I was able to help.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And I think you hit something there as well. When you fly your flag, you allow other people too as well.
Jenn Drummond:
Yes.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
By empowering her to come on that journey with you, you, sharing that journey, created an opportunity for her. So how have you changed your mindset? Because so much around climbing and things is obviously that flag. So how have you changed your mindset around the journey and processing that as you go rather than waiting for the destination?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, I've been very more aware of how I like to celebrate at the end, and learning to celebrate along the way. And just allowing more of a community involvement. It takes a village, and I know we hear this a thousand times, to raise a family. But it really does. And if you're running a family, if you're running a business, if you're climbing a mountain, the bigger the mountain, the bigger the team that you need to make everything happen and to get everything come together. And so when you're waving your flag, you're collecting your tribe, you're collecting your community. Because it's going to attract people that want to be a part of that, and it's going to deflect people that don't want to be a part of that. And that's all perfect.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
So then all of a sudden, "Here's what I'm doing, here's what I want to do." Then people that want to be a part of that movement get to jump aboard.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
And then it just makes it wider and bigger and so much more possible than if it was just you.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I think sometimes it's just so hard to ask for help, isn't it?
Jenn Drummond:
So hard.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Especially if you're achievement oriented as well, "I've got this." You're independent. "I've got this. I can do it myself. I can do it myself." Tell me about how you feel about asking for help now. You've accomplished so much. Obviously that takes care for the kids sometimes and additional support from the community around you. How do you ask for help when you need it?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, so I think we need to keep stories on speed dial that have been success for us when we've asked for help. So I'll give the best example I have, and I'm still humbled this all happened for me. As I was going to climb Everest based on a challenge from my son. And so I am like, "Okay, I'm going to show you that whatever you're Everest is, you're able to climb it physically or metaphorically." Well, I had never been gone from home that long. I was only gone from home for three to four weeks. I was maybe gone for five days before, so this was huge. And that was the biggest thing that kept telling me I shouldn't go, I can't climb because my kids need me. And who leaves their kids for three to four weeks? Okay, my kids are in school. I have tons of amazing help. I'm pretty sure that if I'm gone for three weeks, the wheels on the bus are not going to fall off. But that was definitely my biggest hurdle.
So I went to the kid's school and I said, "Hey, listen, I'm going to be gone. Grandma's coming. Here's everybody taking care of everybody. I'm just letting you know because I'm worried about them, and I just want you to have a little more grace because you understand what's going on behind the scenes." And the teacher goes to me, she's like, "Hey, Why don't we do a, What's your Everest Campaign? Why don't you come in here, teach all the kids about setting goals? We'll put little hikers in the hallway. We'll have them write what their Everest goal is on that hiker, and the front of the building when you come into the school, have a huge mountain which will be Mount Everest, and then we'll have you as a little hiker." And I had a tracking device on me, so then the kids can track where you are in this pursuit. I was like, "Oh my gosh, that'd be amazing." And at Everest nowadays you have wifi at base camp. So I could Zoom in to the classrooms and do Q and As-
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
That's so good.
Jenn Drummond:
... while I was gone. So here I'm gone with nobody that's saying mom or anything like that, which is hard. I'm like, "I have so much downtime. I don't know what to do with myself." My kids' life was going on like normal, but they felt so seen and so empowered, and this whole community was behind me that when I summited Everest, it wasn't me summiting, it was like the 700 little kids in the school and everybody else. And then when I came home, it was like, "Man, when we allow people to help us, when we allow people to be on this journey, everybody benefits." It's almost selfish to not ask for help.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Absolutely. And I think so often you think when you're asking for help that you are a burden on somebody else. And so often, I know so many mothers that don't or won't, But your story is a perfect example of what can happen when you do. You never know what's possible. If you ask for help, maybe there's someone else out there that's wanting to ask for your help as well, but is also too scared or too frightened to do that. And then, what an amazing journey for your kids because it helped you as well, because you're still connected to your kids, right? Because It's no longer your journey and you're away from the kids, but it's the family journey.
Jenn Drummond:
It's the family journey. Yeah. And then I'll have another example for this just because I think it's such an important point for all of us to learn how to own, is COVID happened. And so I'm living... I got lucky, and my kids and I are in Hawaii during COVID. Yes, yes.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
It is tough, Jenn, but someone has to do it.
Jenn Drummond:
Someone had to do it. We volunteered. So we're in Hawaii doing COVID, and there's a ton of perks to that, but one of the negatives to it was is that it's an island, so they have to bring food in. And so they were worried about milk and all this other kind of stuff and having enough. And so then when you went to the grocery store, I was only allowed to buy one milk a day. And so I have seven kids. I go through a milk a day. I can't go to the store every day. Well, I had little neighbors that became friends of ours because you're all stuck at home and no one knows what's going on. And is this the end of the world?
This is the beginning of COVID. And so each day, different people would go to the store and everybody in this little community would buy us some milk. And it was amazing because here's the thing, they were helping us with the milk, but then one of the ladies was from Hawaii, and she knew how to make the Hawaiian lays. And the tree would drop the flowers and my girls would go over to her house and they would learn how to make those necklaces together. So it was a way for her to connect with family, because none of them had family there. They had family, but everybody was isolated from them because they were on mainland and they were on Hawaii, so we kind of became this little hodgepodge family as this little unit. And we all contributed different ways. And when you allow people to help, you might be surprised how you're helping them just by being in their lives. yes
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And I think as well, that importance of community is such a huge thing that's so often lost in today's society so often. Especially with COVID, there was so much of that taken away at that time. And now I think it's amazing that you were able to discover that community in your neighborhood. But also I'm interested in how do you apply those lessons now when you meet new people or deal with new people and go to new places? Are you creating new communities still?
Jenn Drummond:
Oh yeah. Right.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
You strike me as that type of person.
Jenn Drummond:
Totally. I have people all over now. I collect them places. It's funny. But one of my climbs was in Australia, and so when I went to Australia to climb, I met a person over there. We became friends and he climbed with me and helped film it. And then took me around Sydney or whatever. And now I think I have emails being written by helpful people in Australia. I have my website being helpfully designed by people in Australia.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
So good.
Jenn Drummond:
You just stay connected with different people because your vibe attracts your tribe.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
So true.
Jenn Drummond:
And so it's just been so fun. I'm going back to Africa in February to go climbing with some of my kids, and I'm bringing some of the people that I met from South Africa up to meet us there, and it's just... Yeah, life's so good.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
So you're going to climb in South Africa with your kids, right?
Jenn Drummond:
Yes.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
How many?
Jenn Drummond:
Okay. So I went this past year with my twin daughters to South Africa, and we climbed a little bit. One of my second summits was in Kenya. And now that I'm done with the pursuit, my three oldest boys are like, "Well, we want to go on one of those climbs with you."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I love that.
Jenn Drummond:
And I'm like, "Okay, well let's do that." So we decided that we would climb in Kenya together, because I think that's challenging enough for them, but not too much. It felt appropriate out of the choices that we had of the seven seconds. And when my twins and I went to South Africa to climb, we met really good climbers. And they're like, "We'll drive up to Kenya and go climb with you there again with the other kids." I'm like, "Okay, come. We're in. Let's do it. Let's make it happen."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
That's awesome.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
So tell me a bit about more around your book. So you've done... Because I really want to share with the audience some insights and what led to you writing that book? Why was the book the next thing that you wanted to do in your life story?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah. Right now, I don't know how I ended up writing a book. I'll be honest. So my next door neighbor has written a book. We're eating lunch, and he's like, "You know, should write a book as in maybe you want a brownie for dessert today." I am like, "Oh, that sounds like a great idea." I had no idea how much work is involved in writing a book. I was like, "Man." So halfway through the expeditions, that's when that conversation happened. I'm like, "Well, I have downtime at base camps and stuff, so maybe I'll use that time to write and collect my thoughts." It's been challenging, but fun. And what I do is, it's called Break Proof, because I think there's things in life that break us out of our pattern, break us out of the habit of being ourselves, get breakthroughs. I think it's in the break that we have proof. Do we want to continue down this path? Do we want to make a pivot and do something else? That break gives us awareness, and awareness gives us choice.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
And I think all of us are here with some special thing to do. And so the seven strategies to build resilience are really about, okay, if there's this thing in your heart that's calling you, what do you need to develop around you so you have the resilience to bring it home and not just keep it on the back burner? Like, "Oh, I wish I could," or What is that excuse that's holding you back? And so the resilience strategies are what I used on the mountains, which I feel like everything's a mountain.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
So I climb physical ones. They still match all the metaphorical journeys that we go on in our own pursuits. And just when they're tested in life or death situations, you're like, "Okay, this is what works. This is how you continue. This is how you bring forth the thing you're here to do."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
What was one of the moments on the mountain where your resilience was really tested? Does it ever go to a dark place when you are trying to push through? I'm just curious of what happens from your mental state at those moments where you might feel a bit broken physically, but what does that do mentally?
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, yeah. Mentally is really challenging. I would say most of the mountains are more mental journeys than physical, Because the physical journey, you might have a crux move that's hard, or you might have a section that's hard, but the whole mountain isn't hard. From a physical standpoint. From a mental standpoint, it's an endurance game. So as you're wearing on, you're like, "Okay, how do I keep this momentum up? How do I keep positivity up? How do I feel good about myself?" I'll go back to an experience on the mountain. We were climbing Mount Logan, which Is the second-highest point of North America. It's my home base mountain, so I'm like, "Oh, this is going to be easy.
I think it was my hardest one, to be honest with you. Yes. Everybody knows K2 is deadly. This thing was hard. And one day we are out on the mountain and we're skiing up. So we have skins on the bottom of our skis and we're carrying our stuff up, and it's a snowstorm. I'm wearing pink lenses in my glasses. And the reason why is when there's a certain light, if it's really bright out, you want your sunglasses on. But if it's a low light, you want pink, because pink gives you depth perception still.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Okay.
Jenn Drummond:
Okay? So it's a low light lens typically. So I'm wearing these pink glasses and I'm getting into the movement of what we're doing, and I feel like I'm in a cotton candy machine because there's snow falling everywhere, everything's got a pink hue to it. And I love cotton candy. And then I'm tied up to a rope to the guide. And in fact, the rope looked like a watermelon rind.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Oh, wow.
Jenn Drummond:
Right. So yeah, it's so... Right. I'm like, this is how Lulu land I'm in, and I'm sitting there singing that song, Watermelon Sugar High.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Oh yeah, good song.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, good song. My kids play it all the time, and I'm having a great time. Well, then my alarm goes off on my phone or my watch, and it goes off, because when you're at altitude, you won't be hungry. Your body doesn't trigger you. It's time to eat. And you have to eat or you're going to get cold or frosted or all these other things. So the alarm goes off and it's time to stop. So we all stop, and I go to move my glasses to get into my backpack, and I take my glasses off, and almost instantly my energy goes to zero. And I'm like, "How long have we been in this snowstorm? This is horrible. Are you sure we should be moving up the mountain in this? This is scary." And everybody on my team looks at me and is like, "Where have you been? The last two hours of this-
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Wow.
Jenn Drummond:
... have been this bad. I'm like, "I literally was thinking it was a cotton candy machine, and I was singing a song and I had no idea this is what it was." And to me, it was so shocking that my energy changed that much, when the only thing changed was the lens on my glasses. And so it's just perspective plays such a role in everything we're doing. And so if you're going to make the commitment to go from point A to point B, okay, that's done. Now how can you make it fun? Or how can you make it enjoyable? Or how can you make this thing not so much work?
And for me, the pink lenses worked. My experience was entirely different than everybody else in my team. And I think when we're doing this day-to-day life, we need to just remember there's pink lens... Is there another perspective we can take on this particular situation that gives us more energy, that gives us more fun, that gives us more excitement? Because both scenarios were true. It's not like one was true and one was false. They were both realities. It's just like, what one's more fun to have?
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And I don't think we query enough our lens or our perspective. We can get into this rut or this cycle of thinking. And I see it all the time with people that are dissatisfied with their lives or where they're at. And they don't question the lens that they're seeing things and what's really going on. Do you have a practice that you do on a daily basis, or something that you do regularly that helps you maintain that positive lens of the world or being able to see things differently?
Jenn Drummond:
Yes, I'm like a total nerd for this kind of stuff. I have to because-
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I did know I was waiting for you to share.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, no, I have to. I need spontaneity in my life. So I live by a red light, and I'm the short side, so I always hit it red. Does that make sense? And so for the longest time when we first moved there, I'm like, "I hate this light. It always gets in my way, dah, dah, dah, dah." And then one day I'm sitting there, I'm like, "I'm the only thing grumpy about this light. This light doesn't care that it's red, only I care that it's red." And so I turn the red light into my gratitude light. So now every single time I'm at a red light, that's my trigger to go into gratitude. What am I grateful for? Whatever. And everybody who's in my car knows that's the rules. So then we all got to talk about what we're grateful for and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. To the point now where sometimes if I hit it green, I'm like, "Oh, man, I wanted to pause and just recalibrate and be grateful for things again."
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I love that.
Jenn Drummond:
Isn't that funny?
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yeah. It's just turning something that you might have seen as a negative stimulus and making that into something that fills your cup, makes you feel good. Do your kids do it too?
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, yeah. We all do it.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I love that. And with all the work that you've done writing a book, climbing the seven summits, and then I know you're doing so much media work and things like that at the moment, promoting it, which is awesome. When you reflect on it, what's the legacy you want to leave in the world for the work that you've been doing?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, I go back to the accident. I don't get to choose when I die, but I sure get to choose how I live. And I just really want people to realize we choose how we live. We choose what we fill our time with. We choose how we feel when something happens to us. We choose these things. And so we have so much more power than we think. And If things aren't going well, what other choices do you have to put you in a better spot forward? Because life's a gift, it goes fast, and I just want people to enjoy it.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yeah. I really love... I just love how you've been able to apply so much of what you've done with climbing these mountains, but also in your mindset within life as well. And then obviously that's shaping your kids too, coming out now and climbing those mountains too. Do you ever think what life would've been like if you've hadn't had that accident?
Jenn Drummond:
Oh, I am afraid to a little bit, to be honest with you. And that's the whole thing with the book is I wrote the book to me prior to the accident. I wrote to that version of me, because I look at what happened when I stepped into my power over the last five years. And It's crazy, I could have never anticipated that I'd have this much impact or this much power or this much ability to help others with their pursuits while I'm doing mine. And I think that's a lie that a lot of us subscribe to that I'm being selfish or that's not helpful to others. When you start owning who you are and being selfish about that thing, look, I got to deliver an ambulance and to Kenya, got to help put the first Pakistani female on the top of K2. There's endless stories of that.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
It's like, okay, well, if that was the case, then those things wouldn't have happened.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes. And I think as well, what you've talked about as well is the infinite power available in all of us that we just might not know. You've gone from staying at home with your kids and raising your kids, and kind of feeling a little bit lost about your own purpose, to going and doing these amazing things and then inspiring other people to do those amazing things. So I think people are listening. Then there's a real lesson in that you are far more capable than what you believe or even know.
Jenn Drummond:
A hundred percent. I had never slept in a tent before, and I took on this mountaineering type stuff. So if it sounds crazy and weird and doesn't fit, but it gets you excited, who cares?
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
You'll learn to sleep in a tent, you'll learn to climb a mountain, you'll learn how to do it.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And did you have the doubters or the naysayers that said, "Oh, are you sure that's safe?" Or did you have people-
Jenn Drummond:
A thousand percent. A thousand percent. That's why they say the current version of you needs to die for the future version of you to be here. You're going to lose friends along the way. You're going to change groups. That happens. And it's sad, but it's also the evolution of all of it. You can't hold on to everybody all the time. But yeah, I had a ton of people like, "You're a terrible mom, you're selfish, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "You know what? They're only looking at it through their lens." They don't know the story. And you have to be really confident in who you are to be able to weather that storm of all the noise of others.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
And I think reminding yourself when somebody is passing judgment on you, that I think if you know it's their lens, you can come from a place of compassion too and go, it must be really hard for them seeing the world with that lens that they'd see this great thing that we're doing in the world as Somewhat less or something that they're not encouraging. So it's really interesting.
Jenn Drummond:
No, it is. And I mean... And I had... One of my climbs had to happen over Christmas. Okay, Christmas is our favorite holiday.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I love Christmas.
Jenn Drummond:
I love Christmas.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
When do you start decorating for Christmas?
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, like Thanksgiving.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yeah. We start in... First November I start, and everyone knows first November, my kids are like, "Come on, mommy, time to decorate." And people have told me so many times, "You can't decorate." Even my nan was like, "No, you can't decorate." But why wouldn't you make the joy last longer?
Jenn Drummond:
Yes, I love Christmas and my kids know I love Christmas. It's seven kids with Christmas. There's nothing more magical. And so I remember the climate in Antarctica, their summer is our winter. And they're like, "Hey, you got the permit." They issue one permit a year, but you need to leave December 18 and you're only back January nine. I'm like, "I can't." Then I thought, you know what, I need to at least talk to my kids about it because we've been in this pursuit the entire time. I'm not allowed to make that decision by myself. There's decisions we make by ourselves as parents, but then there's decisions that affect others that we can get their opinion on. So I have this family meeting and I tell the kids, I'm like, "Hey guys, mom got the permit, but I think I'm going to wait a few years to do it because it's over Christmas and I don't want to miss Christmas with you." And one of my sons almost immediately goes, "Mom, You always taught us that Christmas is a feeling not a day. Why does it matter what day we celebrate Christmas?"
And I am like, "Right." And then my younger kids are like, "Does that mean we get two Christmases?" They're like, "I think this is going to work to our favor. So I'm in, I'm in." so my whole family was in. We talked about it. We had a strategy. We knew what we were going to do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. To everybody else, "I can't believe you're leaving your kids over Christmas. What kind of mom is that?" They weren't privy to the conversation that we had. They weren't privy to the decision-making process that we did. They don't know all those pieces.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yes.
Jenn Drummond:
I sobbed on Christmas because I was by myself. They were ecstatic. They had the best time ever. And we did Christmas before I left, and they filmed the whole thing. So then I could come back home and I watched it with them on the actual day. But it is, it's a feeling not a day. And those are the things that you have to realize, what feels good to you and your people, other people aren't going to understand, and they're only going to judge from their perspective.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I just love that. That's a great example because I think so often we hold ourselves back from other people's judgment who are looking through their own lens. And that's not your lens. You've got your own lens, and you've got your own purpose and gifts that you were meant to bring into the world as well.
Jenn Drummond:
A hundred percent.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Look, I'm going to jump into the rocket round now because I'm very keen to learn a bit more about you and delve into some of the favorite books and favorite things that you've done. So favorite book?
Jenn Drummond:
Favorite book recently is Unreasonable Hospitality.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Oh, that sounds good.
Jenn Drummond:
Really good.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Is that about... Tell me a bit about...
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, so Will Guidara wrote it and he was a restaurateur, and his restaurant was selected as... There's the top 50 restaurants in the world. So obviously being selected to go to this thing as an honor. Well, they all guess on who gets what placement. And he was dead last. And so he is like... After that night, he's like, "We're going to be number one." And they end up becoming number one. But the book shows you how they go from last place to first place, and the things that they do where it's unreasonable hospitality and how that positioned them to be number one. And it's just a cool book because no matter what industry you're in or who you are as an individual, there's so many lessons from that book to be a better human. And I just love it. It was a really good book.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
That's a great book. And what's your favorite holiday destination?
Jenn Drummond:
Destination? We just went to Cape Town.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yeah?
Jenn Drummond:
Kind of in love.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Love.
Jenn Drummond:
Love.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I want to go there for all the animals. So that's What we did. Huge fan of animals in our family. So the safari would be on our bucket list. I'm glad you loved it. Cats or dogs?
Jenn Drummond:
Cats.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yay. Cats haven't been getting many awards. Look, a lot of Australian guests have been saying dogs, so it's good to get one for the cats. Do you have some cats?
Jenn Drummond:
I just got two new ones on Friday.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
What are their names?
Jenn Drummond:
Well, they haven't decided a hundred percent yet, but I think we're at Nobu and Luna.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Oh, cute. Coffee or wine?
Jenn Drummond:
Tea.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Tea?
Jenn Drummond:
Tea. I know.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Nice. What kind of tea do you like to drink?
Jenn Drummond:
I like Earl Gray.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Oh, Earl Gray. I like Earl Gray and Green. I like green tea, actually in the afternoon. And what podcast are you listening to right now?
Jenn Drummond:
Ooh, I like Impact Theory.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Impact Theory. I haven't heard that one. And what makes you feel like you're home?
Jenn Drummond:
My kids.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yeah.
Jenn Drummond:
We can be anywhere. And I'm like wherever we are, if I'm with them I'm at home.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
Yeah, you've got each other. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on as a guest. I've absolutely loved the authenticity and everything that you've shared of your own personal journey. And I think so many listeners will get a lot out of it. I want to let people know how can they take that step forward as well. Tell us more about your book and some of your other endeavors that you've got to support people as well, Jenn.
Jenn Drummond:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So go to jenndrummond.com. You'll have a link to buy the book, so please buy the book. We have a whole bunch of fun, presale freebies that come with it right now. And then I also run some challenges. So I have an intention challenge, an Everest challenge where you climb Everest from the comfort of your own home, a parenting one, and a leadership one. Then we have some retreats and just fun stuff-
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I love that.
Jenn Drummond:
... to be a part of that.
Lauren Karan (Interviewer and Podcast Host):
I love that. And I think clearly from the podcast, there's just so much more that people can learn and gain from their lens in the world and getting around. If they're going to be doing these challenges, they're going to be able to get access to the right people to help propel them forward, and the right tribe to take them to that next level. So thank you so much for coming on the Building Doors podcast. Jenn, I've loved having you as a guest.
Jenn Drummond:
Thank you. Thank you.