094 | Roberta Mariani | Beyond Brand Training: Education & The Evolution of Aperitivo with Savoia & Italicus

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In this episode of the Maffeo Drinks Podcast, host Chris Maffeo chats with Roberta Mariani, the Advocacy Director for Savoia and Ital Spirits.

Roberta shares her extensive experience in the hospitality and drinks industry, offering insights on building effective advocacy programs, the rise of the aperitivo culture, and focusing on category education over brand promotion.

They also discuss the evolving role of Italian bartenders, the increasing popularity of vermouth and Amari, and the critical issue of well-being within the industry.

Whether you're in the drinks business or simply a cocktail enthusiast, tune in for a deep dive into the latest industry trends and tips for achieving a sustainable work-life balance.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:32 Guest Introduction: Roberta Mariani

02:41 Building Brand Advocacy

07:34 The Rise of Aperitivo Culture

12:47 The Role of Italian Bartenders

23:56 Innovative Cocktail Creation

31:18 Promoting Well-being in the Industry

38:49 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Roberta Mariani

Global Ambassador | Italicus | Savoia | Ex Martini

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Hey, drinks builder.
This is Chris.

Mafeo and you're listening to
the Mafeo Drinks Podcast today.

We are reaching listeners in
over 100 countries and I'm

grateful you're one of them.
Before we dive in, a quick

reminder.
That while the show is free, our

paid sub stack.
Subscribers get.

Early access to episodes full.
Transcripts and exclusive Deep

dive newsletters.
Check it out.

At mafiadrinks.substack.com.
Now let's get into today's

conversation.
Shadow Beth Dao, welcome to the

Moffo Drinks podcast.
So, Chris, happy to be here.

Nice to have you.
Finally, after meeting at Bar

Combat Berlin, we managed to sit
here and record some thoughts

about the industry.
Yes, someone at the time told me

then I will like this talk.
That's really, really a lot.

So I think he was here.
Just to to tell a funny story

about this, it was our common
friend Alex Spitzer that just

before going into a presentation
at Bakonvan, he, he introduced

Robert and, and myself.
And then he just left, He

disappeared.
And he said he has a great

podcast.
Oh, so you have a podcast And I

said yes and you will like it.
So Roberta looked at me thinking

like I was a little bit too fool
of myself.

But then we we explained the
situation and it and it was a

funny moment.
No, it was really genuine.

I love the passion.
So let's start.

Many people know you, but
podcast is quite a global reach

and I'm sure that there would be
a couple of people that don't

know who you are.
So let's spend a couple of

minutes explaining your history
within the the industry, because

you have a nice blend of
hospitality and drinks industry,

both side of the of the same
coin.

Of course, tell everybody, I'm
Roberto Mariani.

I'm currently the advocacy
Director for Savoya, Anita

Spirits, so 2 amazing Italian
brands and I'll be working the

hospitality for more than I
would like to say probably more

than 15 years before joining the
Italicas and Savoya team.

I work with Martini on the
global team for a little bit

more than six years and before
our coming from hospitality.

So bartending, cocktail waiters,
barista is a long, long story.

And my journey, I would say, is
started in London in 2012,

something like that.
That's fantastic.

So let's talk about your
experience in terms of building

advocacy.
Advocacy program is something

that I discussed a lot.
So it's part of what I talk

about in the part that I call
the creating demands in terms of

brand, IE maybe you don't know,
but I hate the word awareness

and building awareness and all
these kind of a fluffy terms in

in meeting rooms in big
companies.

I like to call it creating
demand because I want people

wanting to buy the product, not
really just like knowing a brand

and a logo on AT shirt kind of
thing.

I was reading some of the
interviews that you had and some

other content on online and I
was interested in the fact that

you talk about the importance of
explaining the category rather

than just brand.
I'm a big fan of this.

Can you explain more than why
you think it's important?

Of course, this is a really good
question.

So let me start with say then
when you're developing a

training or an advocacy program,
you're essentially asking people

to invest time their time.
So for me, it's in crucial to

ensure that these people, they
got real value from what you're

delivering.
Whatever this is true and

program promoting the well-being
like I did a few years ago with

the Martini Racing Chiclismo or
to educational training.

You want to make sure that
they're going home with

something, then it's going to
benefit benefit them.

So focusing on the category as a
whole instead of focusing on a

brand, for me, they're really
important festival.

It keeps the participants with
the knowledge and deeper

understanding of the category.
This was mean these really help

them to appreciate the product
uniqueness in the context of

other competitors.
So you're not just spending time

talking about your brand and
look how good is my brand by you

giving them the tools to come up
with that, let's say solution in

their home.
It's almost like you bring them

on a journey.
The second point is if you're

leading the category training
instead of a brain training, you

position yourself as an expert
in the field.

So you're not just going to
memorize few key insights on

your brain or key messages.
Then the marketing team is going

to sleep under your door.
You actually need to spend time

reading books, having extensive
knowledge to be able to talk

about the category in the world.
So at that time, you're going to

be able to explain the
production methods, the history,

how to mastering botanical
structure.

And it's not going to be just
related to your brand, but it's

going to be related to all the
brands and all the product on

the market.
In that way you can give a

really wider overview to the
participant and this is

something essential.
Fantastic what you're saying.

It reminds me of something of a
big geography lover.

Depending which country you live
in, the world map is different.

If you are in the US it's AUS
centric map and then you have

Australia on one side and Europe
on the other side.

But if you are in Europe you've
got a European centric map with

Asia East and North America
South America West.

So it's much better for me to to
position yourself on the map so

that you actually can explain
where your brand sits within

that category so that bartenders
and other people can actually

navigate through the flavours,
the ABV, all aspects of the

brand.
I've been sitting in too many

brand training, let's say, where
it was basically like I called

them brainwashing rather than
brand advocacy.

And at the same time, we have to
be mindful of how we speak about

our brands and other brands
because I've also attended

somewhere.
Basically, people were talking

not very nicely about other
brands without pushing

themselves too high on one side
of the thin balance in

navigating at focus.
It is, but at the same time, I

believe if a brand needs to
spend time talking badly about

another brand is because it
doesn't have nothing to say

about himself.
This is the main difference

because I don't believe in
spending one hour talking about

my product and my brand.
It said.

Again, I want to focus on
educating people and giving them

the opportunity to come to the
conclusion that my brand is

unique, that my brand is better
because I'm allowing them to

learn more.
So it's something completely

different.
And in this way you can teach

them about the dynamics of the
category, regulation, production

processes, ingredients,
everything else.

Now that's for me is more
powerful than just going to talk

badly about another brand.
Let's deep dive into the

Peritivo this time.
I mean, when you move to London,

the the Peritivo was not what it
is today, you know.

And I still remember a deck when
I was working for Peroni in

Europe where I was pushing the
Peritivo for Peroni.

And then all the markets that I
was working with that they were

saying La Peritivo doesn't exist
here.

And The funny thing was that it
was even like big countries like

Spain, France, where it's like,
what the hell are you talking

about?
I mean, not talking about

Sweden, we're talking about a
Mediterranean country where you

may not call it a peritivo, but
it exactly what it is.

No, I had to to prepare a deck
to explain the opportunity of

the peritivo back then probably
was much different.

Now I see all sort of brands
trying to jump on the wagon of

the peritivo, aperitivising
themselves, whether it's whiskey

or tequila or anything.
So tell me more about the

journey of your basically your
career within the opportunity or

category of how that has changed
from when you started to to now?

Yeah, of course, now that I
think about, I've been talking

about opportunity for for more
than 10 years, that's a lot of

time.
And as you say, not to 2012.

The concept of peritivo wasn't
widely understood in places like

London or elsewhere in in the
world outside of Italy.

And for me, it's important to
start with from one point,

aperitivo is not just trend,
it's a lifestyle.

If you grew up in the South of
Europe, you're probably very

familiar with it.
It's a special moment and you're

spending with your friends, your
loved ones before lunch, before

dinner.
You're sharing a drink, you're

sharing a nibble.
Is everything like slowing down

and you're fully present at the
moment.

Now imagine to try to explain
that to someone who's never

experienced it first.
And that's why in cities around

the world they knock this.
They had the difficult to have a

grip on the concept because it's
something they didn't

experience.
Likely for us, some of the

foreigners, they were struggling
to Italy.

They had the opportunity to
enjoy sprints on a beautiful

terrace and they fall in love
with it because I think as

Italian we are really good in
creating things, but sometimes

we're not that good in be able
to appreciate the things that we

have.
I think the race of the appetite

was the perfect example.
It was in fact, I think they

were helping us to realize the
potential of the appetitibo.

I'm talking about Barterman in
London.

Then I helped to open in 2014
and the Downte in New York.

So you had some years that were
opening a Terikivo bar and this

really there was at the
forefront of the movement.

As you say, they were not there
but Terikivo Vermont to Amari at

the time.
So I was something quite new and

brought at the international
level.

They really changed the game.
Even in USI remember my first

trips to US, you could probably
find one bottle of bitter, maybe

1 bottle of after all, one
bottle of Vermont sadly sitting

on the shelf, a little bit dust
on on it and nothing more.

Now if you're going to US, you
find Vermont bars, Amaro bars,

you find the wider selection.
These are all things that evolve

over the the the time frame of
10 years.

And I think there are three key
factors that really help the

category to grow.
First of all was the rise of the

mid in Italy.
Italy became really popular.

A lot of people that were
traveling to Italy and they

start to appreciate the
appreciate the fashion, the

food, everything that was around
Italy.

And then of course the drinks.
The second it was shifting

towards a healthier lifestyle.
If you remember a few years ago,

there was a demonization of
sugar.

No one was having sugar in any
kind of coffee, tea.

Sugar was really bad.
And also people that were start

to be a little bit more healthy.
What does it mean?

They were eating more vegetables
and they were eating with less

sugar, food with less sugar.
So their palates they got used

to and develop a taste for the
weakness.

Therefore they start to
appreciate the bitter drinks

more than the overly sweet.
Then like in US they were used

to have it.
And the 3rd, and I think it was

quite a more recent factor is
the changing on the social

habits.
You've probably noticed then the

clubbing is almost like a
slowing down.

People prefer to meet up during
the day, they want to drink less

but better then opting for lower
ABV drinks, they want something

lighter.
So the Opteritibo perfectly

reflect these needs because
usually in the opteritibo you've

got a slightly bitter drinks,
longer, refreshing with lower

ABV.
So definitely fits the new

habits of the people.
So there are like all these kind

of things they got together in
the past 10 years, then really

raise the category where is now.
Wow.

I mean breath, this is like
fantastic way to wrap up the

trend in a nutshell area of the
opportunity.

One and one thing I want to ask
is because you have been part of

that journey, what role do you
think has played the Italian

bartender community within
setting the trend?

Because I'm a big fan of the
ethnographic ethnic side of

things that Boston gets
underestimated.

You could say Mexican bartenders
and chefs in the rise of agave

and Mexican cuisine, the Italian
trend in the Jamie Oliver years

and the fit diaspora of Italian
bartenders and hospitality

people in London and All in all
all around the countries.

Do you think that it played a
role in that or it's actually

not really it's, it's, it was
more like an an overall trend of

what you just explained.
It's a really good point.

I think he played a role in a
moment.

As I say, I think the trend or
like the depreciation of the

peritivo in the category started
from people.

There were no Italians from
people from that side until the

time.
Then Italians understood the

potential and they start to be
proud, proud to be Italian,

proud of the Appletivo, proud of
their products.

And if you think about in the
past years, in all the best bars

in the world, you had Italian
bartenders and then of course, I

think really helped to post the
category.

Yeah, from what I hear, there
played a major role in the

implementation.
You know, because then one thing

is to know that I've been to
Italy and I've seen how more or

less they do an operative and
then I want to bring it to life

in London and New York.
And then, but then if I have

somebody who was actually
Italian, then I can brainstorm

with and then probably the
execution is going to be

authentic rather than gimmicky.
So.

But the same times I remember
during the first year of that

Germany, we used to run some
training and master classes

about Vermont and Amaro and
Victors.

And there were many Italians
bartenders that were coming to

assist the master classes
because they themselves, they

couldn't really understand the
category of these products.

I can imagine, and it's a very
interesting thing because I

still remember when I was
working in my corporate days, we

organized something with my
friends in Finland that we were

doing cocktails with Peroni
there.

We went to see some bars in
Helsinki and it was the first

nice cocktail bars that coming
up in Helsinki.

My friend, the mixologist, the
Federico made me notice.

It was like, you know, can you
see all these drinks are made

with bitters or vermos and
bitters?

Back then I was not working in
spirits.

I was stealing beer and I didn't
have this kind of like develop

eye for catching categories.
I I was asking, why do you think

is that?
It's, it's just like it's

booming now.
Like everybody beaters,

everybody's doing their modes
and it was such a big change

versus the past, versus the
usual classics that we're doing

all and back then.
So I remember you reading

somewhere that you said that
Thermal Santa Maria are

cocktails in a bottle.
I love these expressions.

How do you convince bartenders
to use these kind of products

into cocktails and why do you
think that has stick to an

extreme level now?
So you see bitters very present

in cocktail menus.
What a wonderful question.

So let me start say them.
Versatility is the key.

I think two days, the storage
space, space in the bars is

always a challenge.
You've got really smaller shells

and less space to storage
product.

So you need to be really mindful
about the product that you have

in your bar.
Now, vermouth, amari and bitter

are extremely efficient tools
for bartenders to create

cocktail.
With just one product.

You can add the layers of
complexity to even the simple

drinks.
You having a gin and tonic, you

adding a Libya bitter and Amaro
vermouth, you adding so many

layers of flavor, they're really
transforming the the drink.

Instead of relying on multiple
ingredients to achieve a similar

effect, you can just use one of
them and experimenting.

You can create diverse flavors
adding just mix other components

to the to the product.
This products, yes.

For me, they're essentially
cocktails in a bottle because if

you think about the definition
of the cocktail, you have

alcohol, sugar, botanicals and
bitterness and you've got all

these elements inside of the
Vermont and bitter and Amaro.

So they are already packed with
a lot of different flavors and

it can be herbal, they can be
floral, they can be citrus, and

all these elements there can
really transform a drink.

So when I need to explain
bartenders why they need to use

a cocktail in the bottle is
because using this product they

can just elevate their bar
program with the minimum effort.

I think it makes sense.
Maybe super interesting because

like both of us grew up in
Italy.

Remember in the 80s you grew up
with Amari.

If you go to any restaurants, at
the end of the meal, you bring

you a bottle on the table.
It was for one, as usually a

grandpa limoncello or a Maro
there.

So we grow up with that kitten
as espresso.

The coffee that you grow up with
is bitter palate.

It's very interesting, like how
that has developed.

I mean from Italy, you would
take it for granted if you would

like 345 Amato bottles in the
back bar.

In other countries that's not
the same thing.

But I think it's great how that
has developed.

And I'm wondering like how did
this boom happens of this

understanding apart from it we
have already discussed, but has

it been like some specific trend
that has happened?

You like some specific brands
that are really pushed it to an

extreme that you know it has
boomed, it has kind of like

navigated the the bartender
community globally.

Tell me, what do you think has
been the the main driver from a

trade perspective from the
bartender?

I think he was connected to the
fact, then get the retrieval and

the older product related to the
category.

They became quite trendy.
It was the new thing.

All the bartender that then
spent the past years using

whiskey's bourbon gene vodka and
then something like Vermont

Victor and Amari.
They came became trendy because

this made in Italy love and
there was so much to learn and

so much to discover.
They start most a game trying to

find the new product that no one
tried at the craft, the local

and also the brands in Italy in
particularly, they realize, oh

wait, yes, we've been there
doing both past 10 years, but we

also had an Amaro and Amaro
stand.

While we don't put some budget
behind the Amaro, we start to

talk about the Amaro as well.
And the other brand that was

selling Jean, they start to do
the same.

So all the Italian brands doing
this, kind of a peri Kiwi, they

really stepped up their game
because they saw the potential.

And that helped and also the
fact that most of the best bar

in the worst, they are the
Italians working there and they

were really willing to have some
of the products that were coming

from Italy because also they
were proud of this kind of

products.
So again, the combination of few

elements, I think they really
helped to have this massive boom

and interest about tomatoes.
It's sort of like the perfect

storm that's that was creative
with that and it's so fantastic.

I'm so fascinated for me to see
how all these things happen and

always give this example like in
even here in the podcast, like

on this Negroni, like that
everybody now talks about

Negroni.
Back then, 10 years ago when I I

lived in Stockholm or Helsinki,
I was asking Negroni and these

people that had no idea what the
Negroni was.

And when I was asking for an
Americano, which because it was

cheaper because in, in the
Northeast you pay every single

mixer in the drink.
So we always went for an

Americano because it was a
little bit cheaper.

When in the old days, countless
times I've been given a coffee

when I asked for an Americano.
Now it's so funny when I hear

like everybody acting cool and
talking about Americano and

Negronis, just like pretending.
Now it's being forever, but it's

10 years ago, probably very few
people knew what side, of

course, of the top bartenders in
the world.

But you know, if you went to an
average bar, they have no.

Idea And I'll tell you
something, while working at

Bastermin Negronis, they were
one of the main, let's say Sokko

SARS.
They were like different aged

Negronis have been in Basel.
And I realized at that time and

then after working with Martin,
people like the concepts of

themselves liking the Negroni,
but most of the time they don't

like the taste of the Negroni.
So again, it's a perception that

is related to the drink more
than an actual taste.

I agree.
I agree.

I think it when you were saying
that, I was minding thinking of

myself with cigars.
I love to think that I like

cigars, but I hate it.
Somebody has for me a cigar.

I go for it because I like the,
the, the, the, the situation of

having a cigar, but I don't
actually enjoy it.

I think for many people it's the
same.

Probably the same thing happens
with martinis.

I would say I don't, I don't
like martini.

I never ordered martini, for
example.

I'm more on the I want on the
Negroni side or and say old, old

fashioned things.
My favorite.

Everybody knows in the years of
the year nowadays it's only what

you say because Mingroni has
built such an image.

Even people that don't like it,
they go for it.

And you imagine the strength of
the cocktail in itself.

And tell me more like you've
been working at some of the best

bars in certainly in in Europe,
but I think around the world.

You know, Sanderson Hotel,
Tertanos, you mentioned

Barterminy, it's many of the
places that have been going.

We bumped into each other
already.

They must have played like a
huge role from your development,

within your experience and your
development.

But also, like, something that I
talk about a lot is this

connection between the
hospitality industry and the

drinks industry that we tend to
think is the same.

But ultimately, I, I, I say two
sides of the same coin, but it's

still two sides, you know?
How has that shaped you as a

professional within this
industry?

It might sound obvious that of
course all my experiences have

shaped my perception.
Hospitality and its brands, each

of them was fundamental to us
where I am today.

Think about the one that has
probably the bigger, the biggest

impact.
I would say the Zeta Tunnels

because it was at the early
stage of my career and back in

2013 Zeta Tunnels was the
hotspot.

The Bart program was overseen by
the factory with Tony Coguliaro

and the approach there was
transformative.

We applied scientific metal
cocktails, learning how to

communicate ideas and the mantra
drinks.

It wasn't just about creating a
cocktail in a usual way, it was

about transforming and 'cause
that foreign experience into

something that you could taste
and enjoy.

For example, I will ask, we will
ask ourselves, how do I

replicate the smell of the
morning rain in the cocktail?

If you approach the question
with the normal thinking, it's

something almost impossible.
But that kind of thinking

changed everything.
So before that you might boil

the drink thing, starting with
an ingredient or a flavour.

I want to make a strawberry
cocktail and then I added the

ingredients to complement the
flavour.

But when you start from a
concept, then the possibilities

that become infinite because I
have to think, OK, the smell of

rain, what kind of chemical they
are behind where I can find the

same chemical, the same flavour
to replicate, to replicate that.

One of the things that you can
draw inspiration from different

things.
You starting from a concept and

it can be an art form, it can be
an idea, an experience, and then

you making a drink and you can
deliver that concept to another

person.
That is a game changer for me.

Wow, that's so fascinating.
I mean, it makes me it makes me

think of another earlier
episode.

I I discussed with Stephen Grass
from QCM and custom.

Does a brand start from the
brand or from the liquid?

Now he he was talking about The
Big Bang theory.

Now it starts with an idea Big
Bang where all the universe gets

created now and and it sounds
like it a similar way like the

the getting a cocktail, not
really starting from a certain

ingredient of flavor, but it
really this overall idea that

then manifest itself into a
specific flavors and and

cocktail.
I think it's an approach then

it's just more an elite and
synthetic and you can apply to

cocktails as much as a product
you were talking about.

Is the liquid starting before or
is the branding?

They are like two things.
They are going together.

You started from Oneida want to
tell people with your product

and then you start to develop
the branding, the lead from the

concept first.
If you don't have clear the

concept that you're not going to
be able to deliver a liquid or

branding.
That is one thing that I learned

in my career is less is every
ingredient in the cock than

every ingredient in the in a
product or anything that you put

on the label, on the branding,
on the identity of the branding.

It needs to be there for a
reason.

I like a minimalistic approach.
So whatever is a garnish or

drink component of design,
everything is for a reason.

If if you're removed, even a
single piece is going to

completely change the idea.
It's not going to be able to

deliver.
So you can apply that to

cocktails as much as a product.
And this is very interesting and

it's very interesting when you
manage to bring people on that

kind of journey connected to one
of the things that I talk about

a lot is about this focus on the
target occasion.

But at the same time, it's very,
it's very easy to get

sidetracked to your point about
the melism and simplicity, which

I love it.
It's very easy to get to get

overcomplicated and trying to
build a brand that it's so

complicated that basically
people don't get it at all.

Struggle with understand again,
am I going to use this brand and

what do I do with it?
Whether you are a bartender and

it's like it's on the back bar,
but I have no idea what to do

with it.
Is Simon Synak is one of the

person there?
I love to hear when he does

talk.
So when he write books, why

people they buy the why you do
things, not what you're doing.

So buying consumers and
particularly they buy your

product because they want to
feel in a certain way.

Imagine if you will go into a
bar and instead of being asked

what flavours do you like, they
will ask you how do you want to

feel today?
And that is going to lead them

to create a cocktail to make you
feel in that way.

That's magic.
Would be fantastic.

That would be my dream and it
probably, I mean, I'm even going

as far as saying that it would
change to game in attending

because I was discussing this
fun like spritz in the in the

previous episode that times
people get scared of entering a

cocktail bar.
And if you take the average

person, you know, especially the
way cocktail bars have developed

in the last years, it can be
overwhelming.

And it's like she don't know how
to behave.

And why do I sit here and now
they give me a cocktail and they

give me a glass of water, you
know, do I put my hands and do I

need to do, you know, feel
scared?

And this gave me all these
rules, this bar that I really

don't know what to do.
And it can be quite, let's say,

exclusive rather than inclusive
in this term.

But if you had that kind of
welcome from a person behind the

bar, then it would be like, wow,
I feel that's all.

And now I can be myself and ask
where I want to be and how I

want to be.
Let's bridge to the next

question that I remember when we
bumped into each other back home

and then we also bumped each
other at breakfast.

It was remember talking about
with you and Giuseppe like about

the fact that we were the
actual, you know, early birds at

the hotel.
You know, in breakfast only

you're in bar combat is the
biggest shipment.

It means you have behaved the
night before.

Remember reading something from
you about the fact that it's

industry can be quite
challenging.

You know, like the the late
nights, the drinks, the

travelling, the firing, the I've
been there before to travel much

more.
I think from from your

Instagram.
What do you think, you know,

could do and what change would
you like to see?

I mean, being on what we were
saying about the dream of

sitting at the bar and you know,
being that request like you

would like to feel and what
would you like to be?

You know, what kind of change
would you like to see in the

industry to feel more
sustainable and having a more

sustainable kind work life
balance, help balance and.

Topic very close to my heart and
I've been advocating for both

time as well-being for many
years now.

It started with my pastoral
experience of course, and I've

been trying to encourage the
industry to improve on this

area.
Conversation around will be

inclusivity and diversity have
been growing the past years and

there is more and more
organization around the world.

Trade show industry people, they
are looking the industry more

sustainable.
I will say over the years I've

LED seminars, talks, round
tables, even organize a

self-defense workshop.
Details of the cocktail I

believe was 2022.
But here is my controversial

point on the conversation that
all this discussion often tend

to focus on what we expect
governments, organizations and

employers to do.
While all of those things are

essential, I believe the change
my will start within us and this

makes a uncontroversial but I
often ask what are you doing for

your liability?
Are you eating healthy?

Do you exercise?
Do you take time to take care of

yourself?
Are you avoiding the situation

of danger?
Too often we expect others to

act without taking
responsibility for our own

actions.
And I'm I'm telling you a story.

Few years ago I had, I had my
moment, I think it was during a

business trip for a trade show.
I was so often travelling by

myself, I felt unsafe, unsafe
while travelling in the city and

of course during trade show you
got a lot of people drunk

around, people that can be
aggressive, they might be not

respectful and I would love to
live and work in an environment

where people, they are not
aggressive, they are not drunk,

they drink responsibly,
respectful but we can't control

them.
I control the others people.

What I can control is my own
preparation and actions.

So when I return at home I sign
up for a self-defense class and

last year I became a certified
instructor to help other

particularly women to learn how
to protect themselves and how to

prevent to put themselves into a
danger.

So yes, I believe governments,
employers, organization, even

the trade shows they can all
contribute to making the

industry better.
But the same time we all play a

role through small meaningful
actions, you can consider

whether offering a shot to a
friend them is truly beneficial

to this person.
You know, most of the time when

you visit a bar, a bartender in
a bar, a friend that they're

going to offer you welcome drink
and a shot and glass of

champagne.
Do we really need these drinks?

Or you not really looking after
the other person while you

pretend to care, not because you
don't care, but because you

realize you're actually making
worse.

So this is my controversial view
about the topic.

Then is starting from us to make
the changes.

Then there we want to see
because the sooner we start to

act, then we can ask the other
to start to act as well.

You raise an important point
because there's always this kind

of, you know, if it's not
mandatory, then I can live with

it now.
Yeah.

Remember, it was to have a
scooter.

Now it was this law.
I don't know if it was in your

age as well, but until you were
18, helmet was not mandatory.

So until I was 17, remember, you
know, not wearing a helmet and

you know, a few accidents as
well.

But it was funny because it was
what kind of low if that that if

you are over 18, you can avoid,
you know, do you have a, you

know, a thicker heads or, or
what happens between 14 and 18

that develops for, you know,
owns on on your heads, You know,

and and and I go back, you know,
looking at me in hindsight, it

was just a bit nice because you
wear helmets, you know, belts

tend to wait until it's legal.
One people beat that.

We were saying about the, the
the shot was do water for

everyone.
When I go out, you know, whether

you're drunk or not, you know,
always have a bottle of water,

you know, or I start ordering
glasses of water and I start to

give it out to people.
And some people we in the

industry, they look at me like
if I'm crazy and I was like, why

are you giving me a glass of
water?

Let's say you thank me tomorrow
morning.

These can all elements to really
say, you know, we are always

talking about mindfulness and
well-being.

We were discussing that during
that breakfast now and it's like

seminars.
There are these things and then

you still see everybody hangover
the day after and you know, do

you need to go to that extra bar
at three?

AMI think it's a responsibility
I would to break that chain of

events sometimes because now,
for example, I've stopped

drinking for a couple of months.
I thought like, oh, can I work

in this industry without
drinking for two months?

You know, I avoid it for a week
or something.

And I started this kind of, but
now it's not that I want to do

it forever, but I looked at
things from a different

perspective and go out with with
someone and I said drinking,

Yeah, first time is like even in
some bars, which is very

painful, you know, even like it
because I'm part of the Indus

life.
And sometimes I've noticed that

if I go out, let's say I go out
with you, then if I tell you I'm

not drinking tonight, then you
feel more comfortable, like I

still want to drink, you know,
get shots, you know, say, you

know, it's not drinking, you
know, and just leave it on the

table.
And she's a different step than

kind of like faking that I had
the shot because figuring that I

had the shot will ignite this
second shot later on.

While if I tell you I leave it
on the table because I don't

want to drink it and I told you
no and you still ordered it,

then send you a bigger signal
that says OK he's serious about

this.
You know, expecting the no for

an answer, respecting that this
person that moment doesn't want

to do a shot.
I think he's all about caring

for each other again, you know,
he's asking, oh, may Ioffer you

as a shot.
And if the person say no, just

OK, mile and friends as before,
nothing happened.

Just that person didn't want a
shot in the moment, whatever,

for whatever reason it is.
And again, I'm not even say, oh

people, they should stop
drinking all that's all.

Then you can pace yourself.
Most really often I start the

evening with an alcoholic drink,
an alcoholic or sometimes I just

decided the night I don't want
to drink because I might need to

train the morning after I have a
big meeting.

There can be million of reason
for me to decide to donate the

shot the night and it's
important for us, as you say,

don't be fooled, don't be have
the finger points.

If we make this kind of decision
that way, we can improve our

industry and make it more
sustainable, that we can make it

more like inclusive, so it can
start from us.

And then when this happens, we
can start to raise the voice and

say, hey, OK, we've done all our
part and now employer

organization ratios, now it's
your time to show.

Then you can do the same.
Fantastic.

So that's I think it's a it's a
nice way to wrap this up.

I hope that people will listen
to especially this part so that

they don't miss the, the final
part of the episode that is

Momento, you know, wisdom from,
you know, people that have been

in the industry for quite a
while and to give you the

opportunity to, to tell people
how to find you, how brands that

you're working with and.
Oh, so nice of you, me on

Instagram at the table with me
because I know really easy and

those to remember.
And you can look at the brand

I'm working at the moment,
Italicus and Casa Savoya.

Feel free to DM me if you have
any question.

If you want to talk about
safety, well-being, appetitibo

always open to any kind of
conversation.

Fantastic.
So thanks a lot, Roberta.

Thank you so much, Chris, lovely
to be here with you.

That's a wrap on today's
episode.

If this insights helps you, take
a moment.

To leave us a quick review, you
really have salad.

Drinks builders find the show.
And Speaking of sharing, pass

these insights along to another
drinks builder who needs to hear

this when I get.
Next week's episode.

Right now, head over to
mafiadrinks.substock.com where

paid.
Subscribers get episodes a week.

Early plus full transcript and
deep dive analysis.

Until next time, remember that
brands are built bottom up.