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Shop Talk Her Way is where former shop owner and coach JeanAnn Saint Grace opens up the books on what it really takes to run a profitable, sustainable, and well-balanced auto repair business.
With decades of experience in bookkeeping, operations, and leadership, JeanAnn brings an honest, no-fluff approach to shop management — all from a woman’s perspective. From financial systems and staffing to communication and culture, she shares insights that help shop owners (and especially women in the industry) take control, build better businesses, and enjoy the ride.
Whether you’re turning wrenches, balancing the books, or scaling to your next location, you’ll find encouragement, strategy, and a healthy dose of “you’ve got this” in every episode.
Shop Talk Her Way is an AutoFix Auto Shop Coaching production — helping shops thrive, her way.
Thanks to WorldPac and the WorldPac Training Institute (WTI) for sponsoring Shop Talk Her Way. Visit worldpac.com for the latest in auto parts distribution and wtitraining.com to explore training programs that can take your career to the next level.
[00:00:00] JeanAnn SaintGrace: A lot of people too fall into the trap that their coach is the ultimate authority or whoever they're listening to is the ultimate authority. But I'm gonna tell you that there's no ultimate authority in your life except you. And if you're in your int- in your integrity, if you're really honest with yourself, and if you're really transparent with yourself and know what you want, then getting you where you wanna go isn't a problem.
[00:00:26] JeanAnn SaintGrace: It's just a matter of, of taking the steps and getting you there
[00:00:36] JeanAnn SaintGrace: When you think about what you want your shop to be, how do you get there? Hi, this is JeanAnn SaintGrace, and I'm so excited to talk about this this week. It's really been one of the things that's been on my mind a lot, and I think as a coach and working with shops and shop owners, w- the most important thing has to be for anybody, anybody that's helping a shop owner, guiding a shop owner, coaching a shop owner, is to get them the role in the shop that they want.
[00:01:10] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And not only in the shop, but what kind of shop do they want? There are people who want everything from a small two-bay, three-man operation up to, you know, they wanna own 12 or 20 or however many shops and scale out to something, like, that big. And there's no question or judgment on any of that. There's r- and there's room for, for that whole gamut within the industry.
[00:01:38] JeanAnn SaintGrace: There's room for every shop owner to have exactly what they want. And I think one of the shortfalls in a lot of coaching plans is that it's cookie cutter. It's, you know, you have your shop, you're an absentee owner. You're not working on the business, you're working... or you're not working in the business, you're working on the business.
[00:01:59] JeanAnn SaintGrace: That for some reason it's in some ways a cardinal sin for a shop owner to want to work in their business. So as I've spent a lot of time in the last two years and working with shop owners and having been a shop owner, I never really sho- thought about what do I want my shop to be when I grow up, right?
[00:02:23] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Or when I grow up or when the shop grows up. Like, what do we want this to look like? And I think, again, so many coaching processes and companies have this idea, or they plant this idea of what this should look like. And in some ways, I feel like we can do our clients a disservice around that because we're not really asking them what they want.
[00:02:50] JeanAnn SaintGrace: We assume that because they've signed up for coaching, that they want to be an absentee owner. And I think the most important conversation in those early days is, what do you want this to look like? If you could close your eyes or wave a magic wand or look 10 years in the future, what would you want this to look like?
[00:03:15] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And like I said, do you want to have a nice little two bay, three man shop that does around a million dollars a year? Or do you want to have like multi shop, you know, multi, um, location, like an empire? Like, what do you want? And depending on what the answer is will dictate how the shop gets coached out, right?
[00:03:43] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Do we start, you know, somebody who wants to have multi shops really needs to focus on having a process and procedures, you know, SOPs that, that are replicable across multiple markets, across multiple locations. It becomes basically like a franchise where they've got a shop manual, they've got SOPs for everything from opening and closing to exactly how we're changing the oil.
[00:04:12] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Like, it's dialed in so that when you go to open a new, a new location, you hand your manager your SOP book and are like, "Implement this." And, and that's, that's a really big business model. That's where you need a corporate reproducible, scalable model. If you wanna be a smaller shop owner, then that, that coaching plan is gonna look a lot different.
[00:04:38] JeanAnn SaintGrace: It's gonna look like, how do we maximize profits? How do we maximize productivity? How do we, um, what's our pricing structures? W- how do we drive, uh, you know, this, this, this market of probably my preference would be a low car count, high average repair order model. Whereas you have these larger shops, they can mix and mingle with, you know, some loss leaders, some, um, value, you know, type of offers where they get a bunch of people in and can move more people through.
[00:05:15] JeanAnn SaintGrace: They could still have a high, um, a high average per order, low car count model. It just depends on what they want. But there might be some more leeway on this side of, you know, a multiple shop owner type situation. But again, the question is, what does the shop owner want? And I have one shop that's going through some challenges right now, and every time we talk about their vision, every time we start to talk about what do they want, I see the shining city on the hill.
[00:05:48] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Now I'm, I'm dating myself because when I was a kid, when Ronald Reagan was president, that was one of his favorite speeches. He said, "I see America as the shining city on the hill. It's a new day in America." And so it's kind of become our inside joke that it's a new day at their shop and they're the shining shop on the hill.
[00:06:09] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And, and again, it can build out whatever it looks, whatever they want it to look like It's a chance for them to reset, to rebuild, to create a different foundation and build the shop that they want off that foundation. And one way that we can figure this all out is to look at it like a road trip, right?
[00:06:33] JeanAnn SaintGrace: The des- the destination is the shop that the owner wants, or the shops, whatever that business model looks like. And then we step back a step, and then we step back a step from there. And we step ourselves backwards away from the goal strategically so that, that we're reverse engineering the journey to get there.
[00:06:56] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And I think this is a really valid way to look at what do we want? For, you know, some shop owners, maybe they want a four-day work week. Maybe they want a second in command. Maybe they want to be an absentee owner. Maybe they wanna come in and work three days a week. Um, you know, maybe they want to be like a general manager type owner and manage the business side and never touch a car.
[00:07:24] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And there are some shop owners who never wanna put down their wrenches, and we have to give them that. We can't take a shop owner who at, at their very heart and soul is a technician and pull them out of the bay basically against their will because that's our model, quote-unquote, and force them into this role of full-time owner.
[00:07:48] JeanAnn SaintGrace: My, my kind of like deal if we have to negotiate with my shop owners that want to be in the base is then we need to set up a team that can handle certain things that the owner should be doing. And then, and then the owner has to dedicate part of their time away from the base and actually handling business things.
[00:08:12] JeanAnn SaintGrace: If you've heard me talk about this before, I personally feel there are certain things that a shop owner should never delegate, and I'm gonna stand on that. They should never delegate signing checks. They should never delegate a, a monthly review of their finances. They should, if they're in coaching, they should be meeting with the coach on a regular basis reviewing the numbers, um, with the understanding that when th- that meeting is done, they're probably going back to the bay And I don't have a problem with that.
[00:08:43] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And I think it, again, is wrong to tell a shop owner who wants to be a technician, "You can't do that." I don't think that's fair. I think you're gonna steal the passion and the desire that they had. But they do have to be a business owner. They do have to take some of these ownership responsibilities and hold onto them.
[00:09:02] JeanAnn SaintGrace: At that point, they probably need a really good bookkeeper, they need a really good service advisor, and they need to dedicate at least part of their week to, to keeping their finger on the pulse of these things, signing checks, um, looking at k- your KPIs, um, doing some ticket audits, those kinds of things.
[00:09:23] JeanAnn SaintGrace: There's some things that they're gonna have to hold onto, and we need to allocate part of their time budget every week to that. But to tell a shop owner they're shortsighted or they're anything, there's any judgment on them wanting to be a technician and be in the base is wrong And, and I am dedicated myself to, to you guys having your shop your way.
[00:09:47] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So if you tell me you want some out of the box model, it's my job to help you get there. If it's challenging, we just have to figure out a way to get there. There's, there's, we're coming into this time kind of as a world, as a, as a hum- human group of people where the rules are starting to get very, very fuzzy.
[00:10:13] JeanAnn SaintGrace: In fact, they're going to be falling apart. So we have to be bold. We have to be brave. We have to be willing to say, "This is the kind of business that I want. I want to work from 10:00 to 6:00. I want to work Monday through Thursday. I want to work 60 hours a week." Whatever that looks like, it's, it's my job to help you as a shop owner get there, whatever they want.
[00:10:41] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And there, there has to be feasibility, right? Like, are we gonna run $3 million out of a two-bay shop? If we run 24/7, we might be able to do that, right? Maybe that's what we need to do. Maybe we have, you know, two four-day shifts or three-day shifts, and they run 10 to 12-hour days. Maybe that'll work. We'd have to run the numbers on that.
[00:11:06] JeanAnn SaintGrace: But there, the, the, the goal as I see it is to give what is the shining shop on the hill, and then how do we get there? And like I said, it, it is just like a road trip. Do you wanna take the scenic route? Do you wanna start from where we are right here, and you wanna kind of meander your way through? Or do you wanna go hard and fast on the interstate and go 100 miles an hour to get there?
[00:11:33] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Whatever path the client picks, that's their path. It's not my job as a coach to tell them they're wrong. It's my job to help them find feasible ways for them to get what they want. And, and I think there's a lot of rancor, for lack of a better word. There's a lot of anger, or there's a lot of resentment in the aftermarket industry because there are coaching companies who have tried to put their clients into cookie cutters that they don't wanna fit in.
[00:12:06] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And when they say, "I wanna do this," this, the coach is like, "That doesn't fit our model, so no, that w- we're not doing that." Or, you know, we have, we have shops that are just starting out that need a certain level of coaching. They often need help with, um, straight up operations, building SOPs, um, hiring Um, organization, getting their, their accounting set up.
[00:12:32] JeanAnn SaintGrace: You know, the, this, this beginning shop over here needs much different coaching than a shop who's been in business for 20 or 30 years and they're looking at the sunset. They're looking at what's their succession plan look like. They're looking at building a business that is saleable i- within the next three to five years, and that's a different set of coaching.
[00:12:56] JeanAnn SaintGrace: That's, you know, how do we build out this succession plan? What do we want this to look like? What do they want their retirement to look like? Does their succession plan look like having a really strong second in command who can manage the shop? And maybe the owner in, quote-unquote, "retirement" decides to come in one day a week, do all the admin stuff, make sure everybody's being held accountable for the things that they do, and the rest of the time they're on the golf course.
[00:13:24] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Maybe that's what that looks like But we have to adapt our coaching to all of those things, and there's some, there's some skill gaps with some coaches. Not every s- not every coach has the, the bandwidth to coach in all those situations. You might start with a coaching company as a fledgling shop, and you have the same coach for several years, and there might be a time when you need a new coach who can help you in this middle time where you've done the game of feet and yards, and now you need to, need to do the game of inches and fine-tune the machine to help it go on into the future.
[00:14:04] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And then as you mature through that process where you've done all the things and now we're in the games of quarters of inches and, and we're fine-tuning to make this shop very attractive to a buyer, then, then that's a different set of coaching skills. So as much as we get attached to our, our people, as a coach to our shop owner and as a shop owner, I was attached to my coach, we still have a relationship.
[00:14:33] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Like, we stay in touch, and we, we, we touch base with each other, and I still have a deep respect and affection for him because he helped us get there where we needed to go. So, so it's hard to say, "Hey, I think this relationship has run its course, and now it's time for a new one," but we're in a different time of our shop.
[00:14:57] JeanAnn SaintGrace: In a lot of ways it's very similar to, you know, your, your kids' education. You know, you put them into pre-K. They learn the basics. They learn their colors. They learn their letters. They, they build that foundation, but then they get to second or third grade, and now they need a different set of skills. And then they get to, to middle school and high school, and they need another set of skills.
[00:15:18] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So, so your trajectory as a shop owner is an arc, and you may need a different set of, of criteria from a coach, a different set of inputs to get you where you need to go. It's very easy for all of us to get comfortable, and comfort generally doesn't breed innovation. Comfort doesn't generally breed growth.
[00:15:42] JeanAnn SaintGrace: You know, we have to sometimes get uncomfortable for us to choose growth, to us, for us to choose to go forward rather than sit where we are and just be content And is there a time for, for content? There absolutely is. If you've been working really hard on your business and you've got it running really well, and you just wanna run it day to day and you don't wanna, like, open up any more cans of worms for a while, that's legit.
[00:16:10] JeanAnn SaintGrace: That's absolutely legit. Do you need to take a break from the outside voices in your ear saying you should do this or you should do that, or, you know, whatever that looks like, but you still can't take your eye off the ball of the finances of your KPIs? And, and I think a lot of times for shops that have been in long-term coaching They like having somebody on the outside to give them an outside perspective.
[00:16:35] JeanAnn SaintGrace: They like having somebody that they can run their challenges by and really have this, this long-term relationship where you've been with them from cradle, the cradle of their business to wherever they're at right now, and you know every step that, that they've been through, and you've been there with them, and it gives them a great degree of security and comfort to have that level of advice.
[00:16:58] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So, so we have to, like, open ourselves to possibilities. We have to widen our perspective and, and, and I'm talking both as a shop owner and as a coach to s- to look at that shining shop on the hill and pull back from it and then figure out how we're gonna get there. And we might need to divert from our original plan.
[00:17:21] JeanAnn SaintGrace: You know, again, to use the, the travel metaphor, you know, you might find a place where the interstates block, and you're gonna have to not only detour, but you might have to pull back. You might have to retreat and regroup and replan your, your next exit so that you can go around whatever challenge is in front of you.
[00:17:40] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And retreat is a strategy to pull back and to reexamine your circumstances and then reassess where you wanna go. You know, is it, is it... Is there any judgment on a cust- on a client who thinks they just wanna have one shop, all of a sudden maybe they wanna have three shops or maybe they wanna have 12 shops?
[00:18:00] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Or is there any reason why somebody who started off wanting to be the, the mega mogul MSO pull back and be like, "Yeah, maybe this 12 shop thing wasn't a great idea. Maybe I just want three, or maybe I just want one really nice, well-run shop that's profitable, that's not, you know, demanding so much of my time"?
[00:18:20] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So again, as coaches, we have to allow our clients and, and our... the shop owner has to allow themselves to, to say, "I've changed my mind," and for there to be no judgment on that. Circumstances change. Life's, life changes. Life changes on a dime. You guys know my story. It was not on my bingo card for June of 2015 for my husband to be diagnosed with stage four cancer, but that's what happened.
[00:18:48] JeanAnn SaintGrace: That wasn't in my plan. That wasn't even on my radar for that to happen. But because we had built the shop the way that we did, we had something to sell. We had a succession that we, we could easily put into place and move through with a lot of grace and a lot of ease, especially considering the situation that we were in So, you know, when I talk about, you know, maybe we have a shop owner that's looking for succession, I do think we need to build every shop out with a plan that it's profitable and saleable from day one, so that if, if something changes, we don't have to spend six months to a year building the business out to make it saleable.
[00:19:35] JeanAnn SaintGrace: It's been profitable and saleable from the beginning. And, and that, that's probably my non-negotiables. If your shining shop on the hill is something that's out of, out of the normal paradigm, then the biggest question is, is this gonna be worth your time investment? Can we shift this model to make it saleable to somebody who might want a different, a different ballgame?
[00:20:02] JeanAnn SaintGrace: I think we can. I just want to never let somebody go down the, um, the merry trail of it's not, it's not feasible at all, right? Where we have to have... We can't, we can't be totally in fantasy land, so to speak. We have to have some strong foundation in reality that's grounded and that we can actually build the foundation of a shop on.
[00:20:29] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So I know this is kind of a, a higher level conversation, and it's never too late to have this conversation, because there are some shop owners who the first thing they wanna do is just get themselves a shop and get it open. I was probably one of those shop owners. All I needed to know was will the bank give us a loan, and what do we need to make the nut to pay all the bills, to pay ourselves, and to know that at, on Friday everybody was gonna get paid, including our employees and vendors, and we would s- have a weekend off and then go back and do it for five more days.
[00:21:07] JeanAnn SaintGrace: I wasn't thinking long-term. I wasn't thinking 20 years down the road. I was thinking about what do we want the cornerstone of our business to be, and then, and then just work it But I think it helps to have this grander vision because there's, there might come a time where this isn't your thing anymore, or you wanna make a change, or you wanna change your role, and we have to be fluid and we have to allow for that.
[00:21:34] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So, so as shop owners, for all of you out there listening to me, and when I say you should have your shop your way, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. There's nothing worse than a human being stuck in a prison of their own making and not being able to see the possibilities for, for change that can happen.
[00:21:57] JeanAnn SaintGrace: I think a lot of shop owners go through that honeymoon stage where they're a new business owner and everything's new and everything's fresh, and they've gone through all the challenges of getting insurance and getting licenses and getting permits and doing all the things, and then three to five years in, it's just a grind.
[00:22:15] JeanAnn SaintGrace: It's just wash, rinse, and repeat, and they don't know what to do about that. And then they lose the passion for their business, and then the pa- the b- business starts to go downhill, and now they've got nothing to sell because the profits are in the tank and there's no value there. So if we can open the door to, to the shop owner that's in transition, no matter what transition they're in, and find them the help that they need, give them the support that they need, help them to strategically retreat, reevaluate their, their plan to get to the, the shining shop on the hill, then as coaches, we're doing our jobs.
[00:22:58] JeanAnn SaintGrace: A- and is a coach your only resource? No. There are so many resources: podcasts, YouTube videos, short, you know, business classes that you can go to, a conglomeration of business classes that you can go to. Find somebody that you, you resonate with and that you like and you wanna listen to and hear how they did their, their thing and got them to where they wanna be today or where they are today.
[00:23:27] JeanAnn SaintGrace: This is, you know, there's, again, there's no rules. If, if I took 10 shop owners and, and put them, you know, what do you want your ideal shop to be, and then pulled them back to the starting line, there's an infinite way to get them to where they wanna be, and there's an infinite amount of possibilities for them to get there.
[00:23:48] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So don't be, be afraid. Do not be afraid. Be bold. Be brave. Be willing to say, "I only wanna work four days a week. I only want the shop to be open four days a week 'cause the three days I'm off, I don't wanna worry about it. I wanna run the shop seven days a week, and I'm gonna run it three or four days, and I'm gonna have a second in command who runs it the other days Um, I'm gonna run a flex team and we're gonna run Monday through Wednesday, and we're gonna run like 6:00 AM to, to 9:00 at night, and we're gonna have split shifts There's no rules.
[00:24:24] JeanAnn SaintGrace: You make up the model that you want and then figure out how to get there. But I don't think you get there by standing at the start line without a, a, a way or a goal to get to where you wanna go. I think we have to plan this like a trip, and it's like, well, if you were gonna take the kids to Disneyland, and you're in Central Texas, and you're like, "Okay, so we're gonna go west.
[00:24:50] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Are we gonna take the scenic route? Are we gonna go the old Route 66? Are we gonna take time to take a couple days and stop at some of the cool retro hotels and see some of the sights, or are we gonna drive straight through and get there in 24 hours, sleep, and then go to Disneyland?" It's the same thing when you're planning what you want your shop to look like.
[00:25:11] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And, and I think you've gotta have a vision. You have to have some kind of a plan, even if it changes, but, but have a place to start from and do that backwards planning so that you get from your goal, and you step back, step back, step back 'til you get to the start line. So again, be bold, be brave. Have the courage to say, "This is what I want."
[00:25:35] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And if there's a voice in your head telling you, "That's never gonna work," you have to look at that voice and see is it valid. Is this really a voice that's trying to protect me, or is this a voice that's trying to limit me? Or is this the voice of judgment? You know, we all have, have had critics in our lives, and sometimes those outer critics start to live rent-free in our heads, and they become our inner critics.
[00:26:01] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So it's really, really important that if you've got a voice either in your ear or coming from inside of you that's telling you, "This is a bad idea," talk to somebody because that might just be fear. That might just be something saying, "This is a big jump, and I'm, I'm scared to do it, so I can keep playing small and just do my thing."
[00:26:22] JeanAnn SaintGrace: But you never achieve what you want. You never get what you want. A lot of people, too, fall into the trap that their coach is the ultimate authority or whoever they're listening to is the ultimate authority. But I'm gonna tell you that there's no ultimate authority in your life except you. And if you're in your int- in your integrity, if you're really honest with yourself, and if you're really transparent with yourself and know what you want, then getting you where you wanna go isn't a problem.
[00:26:52] JeanAnn SaintGrace: It's just a matter of, of taking the steps and getting you there and being willing to shift when the shift is needed, to not get so tunnel-visioned in on one certain outcome that you don't stop and reevaluate your path and be like, "Hey, I'm, I'm pushing a rock up the hill towards my ideal shop, and every day, when I stop pushing, the rock rolls me over, and we start off at the bottom again."
[00:27:15] JeanAnn SaintGrace: We wanna make this a smooth and steady climb towards this ideal shop. And, and when we hit that first goal of we've got that shiny shop on the hill, how do we run it? How do we maintain it? Do we need to upgrade? Where do we go to get to the next level, whether it's in profits, whether it's in service, whether it's in technology?
[00:27:38] JeanAnn SaintGrace: You know, once we, once we hit that level, now what? Do we work on ourselves as leaders? Do we start going out into our community as leaders? Again, what role does the shop owner wanna play, not only in their shop, but then in their community, in their family? Do they have family members that wanna come into the shop?
[00:27:55] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Do they not? And then how do we build out a team if we don't have a, a family that wants to take it over? There's so many variables to this that I really can't hit on them all. I'm just trying to give you guys some scopes so you kinda see the, the options and the details and the things, the gamut of, of things that can be But we should never be limited unless we're just trying to do pie in the sky, right?
[00:28:22] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Um, you know, there are, there are some things that just aren't feasible, but by gosh, if it's your dream, check all sides of it before you say, "Nah, that's not gonna work," or, "How can we get part of it?" Or, "How can we amend this?" So, so don't be afraid to go after your shop your way. Don't be afraid to continue to strive for that shining shop on the hill, because the more you strive, the closer you're gonna get.
[00:28:50] JeanAnn SaintGrace: And if we, if we don't figure out, figure it out the first time, we'll figure it out the second time. You know, the, the old adage of, you know, how many light bulbs did, um, Edison make trying to figure out what worked? How many errors did he make? None of them were errors because every time he had one fail, he found out what didn't work.
[00:29:11] JeanAnn SaintGrace: So if you have tried things and they didn't work, you're just figuring out what's not for you, and we can find a path for you that will work. And sometimes you just need more brain power. You need somebody to bounce ideas off of. Sometimes you need either a, a brain trust or a coach or your spouse or a close friend or somebody else who's successful and maybe not in your industry, and maybe you need to look outside your industry for solutions.
[00:29:37] JeanAnn SaintGrace: But please don't get stuck. Please don't get stuck in a place where you're unhappy, where someone's tried to force you into a role you don't wanna play. There's always ways to figure out how to get you what you want, and you should never feel stuck. So, um, you should never feel stuck, as I said, and if you do wanna coach, the, um, the sponsor of this show is AutoFix Auto Shop Coaching.
[00:30:03] JeanAnn SaintGrace: The coaching plan for us is to really give you the coaching that you need. Like I said, where are you at? Where do you wanna go? And we prioritize that. There's no agendas. There's no plan on our side. There's no cookie cutter idea. It's only your shop your way. So if you're interested in a discovery call with either me or Chris, the owner, please don't hesitate to reach out.
[00:30:28] JeanAnn SaintGrace: All the contact information is in the show notes. I deeply appreciate everybody who takes the time to listen to the podcast. As you know, I am so dedicated to the shop owners out there getting the shops that they want. There's no reason, as I said, for anybody to be stuck in a shop that they're not happy in.
[00:30:50] JeanAnn SaintGrace: I don't want your life to be a wash, rinse, repeat or some kind of a grind. I want you to feel passionate about your shop. I want you to walk in every day and be happy to be there, and then also be happy on the days that you're not there. So, you know, let's open up this can of worms. Let's figure out what it takes to get you where you wanna be So as always, this is JeanAnn SaintGrace with Shop Talk Her Way.
[00:31:14] JeanAnn SaintGrace: Love your people till it's weird and get your shop your way. Thank you so much for listening and watching