Can Every City Build a Place Like The Park?

Can a golf facility be fun, affordable, and welcoming for the local community while maintaining an elite course and golf experience that attracts committed golfers from around the globe? 

Brian Conley knows it can; he sees it every day, and he believes it starts long before any of them hit their first tee shot.

As the General Manager of The Park in West Palm Beach, Brian has helped build one of the most celebrated public golf experiences in the country. But this conversation goes well beyond architecture or rankings. It's about creating a place where people feel welcome, where every decision serves a mission, and where golf becomes a vehicle for community rather than exclusivity.

In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co‑host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. “The Professor”) sit down with Brian Conley (GM at The Park) to discuss why "fun" became the north star for The Park, what public golf can learn from private clubs (and vice versa), how to think about pricing without compromising accessibility, why walking matters, and whether this model can realistically spread to more cities.

If you've ever wondered why certain golf courses become gathering places while others remain just another tee sheet, this one's for you.

The conversation dives into:

• Why every successful golf project needs a clear "why"
• The philosophy behind The Park's "Open Golf" approach
• Stripping away unnecessary traditions without losing what makes golf special
• The balance between accessibility, sustainability, and premium public golf
• Building community through programming, leagues, events, and local ownership
• Why walking-first golf creates a better experience for players and operators
• Lessons learned from Bobby Jones Golf Course and bringing those ideas to West Palm Beach
• Whether The Park is a one-of-one or a blueprint for the future of public golf

The Park
https://theparkwestpalm.com

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Chapters

00:00 The why comes first
01:07 Back in love with golf: swing video, flow state
09:00 Professor's time fact: plants can tell time
11:25 Partner break — Titleist AIM golf balls
13:13 Brian Conley joins the show
15:11 The only non-negotiable: fun
16:31 Stripping out the norms — what "open golf" actually means
19:19 Coming up in golf, and learning to be different
22:42 Why golf is so afraid to test and fail
24:26 Pricing without apology: the Mercedes problem
27:50 Protecting the locals in a transient, premium market
34:42 The recruitment: a 20-minute tour, a January phone call
39:20 Does the model travel? Scale vs. replicability
46:16 Sustainability, philanthropy, and funding The Path
50:41 A 50-year city lease — and a new event teaser
52:17 Mission over profit, and living outside the box
56:20 Walking-first in the heat: caddies, loops, and the data
1:03:35 The Professor's cart confession
1:06:16 Serving every kind of golfer at once: culture and people
1:07:03 The kid in the tank top and the Augusta member
1:13:16 The fake version: how to spot an imposter
1:17:59 What keeps him up: culture and getting the word out on The Path
1:20:49 The parrot: the story behind the logo

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is in the business of belonging, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

Creators and Guests

Host

Matt Considine

Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.

Host

The Professor

NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.

What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?

Deeply researched audio documentaries that tell the definitive stories behind golf's greatest clubs + weekly conversations with the characters and communities shaping golf today.

Brian Conley (00:00)
You know, you gotta have a why. the why isn't a playbook from a a management company or

a previous golf course or what a pro that used to do or anything like that. The the why is actually it's organic, it's personal, and it typically comes from a very a a very unique and a very incredible person. that then now the golf course is the vehicle to that why. you eliminate and I remember that Marty kinda said this and was misquoted, you y you eliminate the

the profitability. What what he meant to say and what happens is you you eliminate the individual who is profiting off of this business. 'Cause make no mistake, this is a business. It is a game but we have to we have to be sustainable. So we run this like a business. But again, no one's trying to re to to recoup a return on an investment. There's not a a bank loan outstanding or anything like that. We're truly being able to make decisions one hundred percent mission driven. That is very, very difficult.

We're very incredibly fortunate to be able to do that here.

Matt Considine (01:07)
Welcome to the Bag Drop Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine here with our co-host, the Professor. Professor, how are ya?

The Professor (01:17)
I'm doing great. I'm so excited about today's show. And also, I'm just back in love with golf this whole year. I've just been back in love with playing it all the way to the point. I'm actually taking video of my swing, something I've never liked to do my whole life. Taking video of my swing, pumping it to my boy Nico, pumping into our boy Blake, getting some feedback on the swing. I'm actually sh working on some technique changes.

Matt Considine (01:39)
Do you actually watch it? You're not the you're not the van vanity

type. Do you do you actually look at it or do you just record it and send away and then read feedback?

The Professor (01:46)
I I don't

I don't like watching it because I I it's not vanity at all. I hate it. Every time it's like the papers I write in my job or anything. I if I read if I watch my swing, it's just like nitpicking that's ugly. Need to change this, need to change that. So I tried not to ever watch my swing. it's more send it off to, you know, who I trust, get their feedback, then look at it based on their feedback and try to see if I can make changes.

Matt Considine (02:12)
You know, I I

I I I'm I'm in the opposite realm right now of I'm in love with golf. Definitely love in the season. We're we're in the heart of it. but I'm I'm trying to play less golf swing. I'm just playing get it in the hole, baby. Like that's really I'm trying trying to get away from as many swing thoughts as I can. I kinda went a little too far. you know, th th it's all about balance in life and golf, but I I I'm definitely

Trying to wipe the slate clean and just say, All right, you got some good fundamentals back, just get that thing in that hole, you know, figure it out.

The Professor (02:44)
Yeah, I'm sure I'm gonna drift a little too far into the technique right now. But that

Matt Considine (02:46)
Yeah.

The Professor (02:47)
that's that's okay, right? It's like get the technique dialed in and then yeah, learning to get back into whether it's Zen golf or be a player or whatever mindset you s you ascribe to, finding

Matt Considine (02:56)
You know it?

The Professor (02:57)
a way to get back to that when you're actually under the gun and wanting to s golf your golf your ball.

Matt Considine (03:02)
And I was talking to somebody about this too. Like some people just love the golf swing. You know how some people love golf arc architecture, some people love to compete, others just l love the golf swing. And I don't think it's a a a wrong thing. Like, yeah, to play better golf. I think there are those tropes of, you know, be an athlete, get in the hole, don't have too many swing thoughts. But I I was talking to somebody inside New Club

here in Northeast Ohio, and then they just they just love geeking out on the swing.

And and that's a okay thing. You know, if that is one of your your deals, like so what? If it helps you play or not or play better or not, if you really enjoy the the mechanics of it and you enjoy the depth of of going in the golf screen, do

The Professor (03:40)
Yeah, that was Ben Hogan, right? Ben Hogan just loved,

Matt Considine (03:42)
There you go.

The Professor (03:44)
loved the golf swing and you know, waxed on about it and used very difficult read sometimes if you look back on Hogan talking about the golf swing.

Matt Considine (03:52)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean we might drift into more golf swing talk today on the episode, but I hope not because I have a lot of questions for our guest today. Tremendous booking professor. really excited to talk to this gentleman, Brian Conley coming on the show. He runs the park in West Palm Beach. I I there's so much I love about that place. I have not been, so before we get to Brian Professor, I do want to get your

You know, a few minutes on on your experience there a few weeks back. But you know, h his background in in both private club golf, miss mission-driven public golf. You know, Brian was the the general manager over at Bobby Jones in Atlanta. So if you're a new club Atlanta member, you actually have Brian to thank for our weekly game that we still have there today. he was my my first ever interaction there with Bobby Jones. And that's another place to

Just I adore for for so many reasons. And the park just seems to be taking this this model to a new level professor. what they define as open golf and and doing it in a meaningful way. I I can't wait to talk to man. This is gonna be a fun one today.

The Professor (04:58)
Yeah. I'm gonna get all my words in on this opener because I know once he comes on and it's gonna be your show and I'm just gonna sit back and let you let you two cook. man, I I gotta tell ya, I I don't know I could talk at length about the park. The golf course is phenomenal, get that out of the way. Honestly, it might be of the O. G. Gill's designs that I've played, it might be my favorite of all the ones I've I've been to.

Matt Considine (05:20)
Mm. That's saying something.

The Professor (05:23)
really felt like you're down the on the sand belt of Melbourne in different spots.

So just full compliments on the golf course. But what what I comment on I would say in this opener here before we get to Brian is, you know, yet there's a few golf courses that just have a sense of place that you go to. And this can differ. But the ones that have stuck out to me over say the last decade, you know, Goat Hill, Sandhills, certainly Sweetened Cove.

You know, I think the park is then right up there. With as soon as you step on property, it just has this you can just feel the ethos, the vibe, a sense of place. It knows what its identity is, it knows what it's accomplishing and it's just doing that in spades. And obviously with the park, I wish I had the scorecard here, you know, what you brought up open golf and what it says on the back of that scorecard about that.

you just there and you just look it around and it's just a vibing community. Everybody is just vibing there, and

there's all walks of life, and just so many different characters there, and they're all relaxed, having a blast all around golf. And obviously it's got a great layout, great setup with different food options, hangout options. It's just it's truly one of those community gathering spots and and just executed well, which obviously then always speaks to the leadership and the people that are involved. We always say that about Swedens.

It why is is it what it is? Yeah, it has a great golf course. It's cool and all that, but the people make it and it's clear that that that's the case with the park. That's what

Matt Considine (06:43)
It's a

The Professor (06:43)
a real quick shout out to Amazing logo. I wanna get that in. I I I violated my I'm not allowed to buy anything in the pro shop this year. I violated that at the park, got Claire a wonderful pair of socks and got myself a head cover, shout out, duck and cover golf, a buddy of mine's head cover company. So you

Be prepared to spend some money in the pro shop when you go there 'cause I don't know who did the logo, but it is a bang up job.

Matt Considine (07:08)
Well, mer merch sales probably do benefit too from just contributing to something, right? The contributing to the mission of that place and the

The Professor (07:14)
That's right. So I had to buy something.

Matt Considine (07:15)
operations behind it. Guild free professors, fend away, you know. I I know you're on hiatus for the merch game for a bit, but that that's that's okay. One thing I wanna comment about your list of courses there, what I find so interesting about the group you just laid out, if you really think about it, they were err each of those were were innovators in

kind of their their model in a way, right? The w first of, you know, one of one. And and there's more now in those those similar models. But I think I I think the the park is that as well. And so I'm I'm excited to get into that today. You know, I think your yourself and everybody else that has been there that I know, they always come back and say, man, every city needs a place like this. And I I'm sure that may be true, but I also feel like it's a little bit of a dodge because

You know, the question I keep asking is yeah, well, how do you actually do it? How did they actually do it? And is it a special case exception with with the park or is it a is there something is is there pieces of the model that we can take across the country or is it the whole thing you can kinda put into any city and be successful? So I I think Brian's reputation is unusually good management. So that's probably part of the

the playbook, but just just super pumped to learn today, man. This is this is gonna be great. We'll talk about the park.

The Professor (08:36)
Yeah, this is definitely why we do why we do the show. the episode today, I think.

Matt Considine (08:40)
Is there any other teachings for us, Professor, this week, before we dive in?

The Professor (08:45)
Yeah, you know, have you been in a flow state recently? Any any in your recollection, all the time?

Matt Considine (08:50)
All the time. All the time.

Every day. sun up to sundown. No. So

The Professor (08:55)
I know you're lying on that one.

Matt Considine (08:56)
so sometimes doing the dishes weirdly, I feel like I'm sometimes in a flow state. Is that possible?

The Professor (09:02)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's absolutely possible.

Matt Considine (09:04)
We got

a lot more dishes now with with our three little ones. I mean, they they they stack quickly, quickly.

So

The Professor (09:11)
I

I can't imagine. I don't want to imagine. so I'm starting to do a deep dive on time and how we experience it. And obviously flow state is is part of that. but it is time one of the most fascinating aspects of our experiential lives, just because our perspective on it can vary across cultures and then our invinable our individual experience is entirely subjective. so the next couple podcast recordings or at least sporadically, I'll probably have a lot of time facts. The one I'm gonna start us off with today.

Plants can tell time. Right? So this is, we're all familiar with this. Plants, right? They might move with the sun, or think of flowers, how they open up in the morning, and some flowers close in the evening. So you might think, like, okay, it's the light that's causing, right? The light's hitting them, so they open up. Then as the light fades, okay, that signals close down. Well, scientists explored this to see if this was light. And the thing is, if you lock plants,

These flowers in dark rooms, so fully closed rooms, zero light coming in, they still will open and close at a circadia rhythm that they have internally. So why does that happen? Well, there's actually a molecule within flowers that does absorb light. And what happens is this this molecule exists in two forms. So as it absorbs light absorbs light, it transforms into a different form. In the middle of the day, you have 50% of each form. Well, then once it becomes dark.

the fo one form starts to transition into the other form. And once that balance gets so far out of whack, that signals to the plant to open back up to allow light to come in and transform that molecule back. So that's why if they're in a dark room, they will go through that process, but only for so long because eventually the molecules haven't got re rebalanced out and then they'll stop opening up altogether and the plant will die. So yeah, plants tell time and

Matt Considine (10:59)
There's circadian

rhythms too. I

The Professor (11:02)
That's right.

Matt Considine (11:03)
I wonder if they struggle with with if I if I took a plant with me on the on you know a plane overseas, would they struggle with jet lag the way I do? Do I have to like sprinkle some melatonin on

The Professor (11:09)
What's

Matt Considine (11:14)
it to get it get in the right rhythm?

The Professor (11:16)
I think for research we should test this and we should probably do that during the open next year when it's back it's when it's back at St Andrews. So get the get the

Matt Considine (11:21)
Yes, yes, of course.

The Professor (11:24)
bag drop credit card ready 'cause we're going over there for science.

Matt Considine (11:25)
For f for

the backdrop. It's it's it's for the backdrop, of course. All right. Well, thanks to our partners at Titleist for today's show. The all new Pro V one, Pro V one X to offer the greatest combination of speed, spin, and feel in the game, as we all know. But Professor, do you like a line on your ball? Are we drawing?

The Professor (11:45)
You know,

I I I did, but since our interview or recording with Chris Wilson, I have gone back to like using the line but not looking down on it so it's like face backwards. So I still see it rolling. but right now I'm looking at just the top of the ball naked,

just trying to feel myself putting.

Matt Considine (12:03)
That is so funny you say that. We obviously spend too much time together. But after that episode, I did the same thing too. I'm using a line, but only on the back half because I want to visualize that ball going in the the hole, five o'clock, six o'clock, seven thirty, whatever it might be. But the all new AIM golf balls from Titleist. do you know what aim stands for? Not just aiming, it's alignment integrated marking. So Titus said, you know what?

There is science behind this. We're gonna deep dive in deep. They're engineers, their scientists. They took a look, and sure enough, there's there's a a lot to it. So there's a variety on if you go over to Titleist.com you're gonna see a variety of their new aim technologies. the aim 360, the aim performance, aim velocity, aim enhanced. And it's really just how your eye sees that line, how you like to interpret a lot

the ball going in t to the hole. Go check out over at Titleist.com

right, professor, let's get on to the show.

All

Brian Conley, welcome to the Bag Drop

Brian Conley (13:13)
Good morning, thank you. Thanks for having me. And Professor, I'm with you. Naked golf ball. No lines. yeah,

The Professor (13:20)
Look at us.

Brian Conley (13:21)
absolutely. That actually goes into the putter too. circles and lines, everything. I'll s I'll just look at the ball and say, is that really looking where it's trying to look? Yeah. Never pull the putter back if I had to look at lines and all that stuff.

The Professor (13:32)
Love it.

Matt Considine (13:33)
Do you think

do you think that's a proxy for field players? Are you

Brian Conley (13:36)
Hundred percent.

Matt Considine (13:36)
are you're you're a f you strike me as a field player, Brian?

Brian Conley (13:39)
A hundred

percent. Yep. Feel I when I'm not playing by field, which I don't get to play very much, I'm not usually gonna be playing too good. when I'm playing well, it's usually just playing by field. Just no practice swing, step up, see ball, hit ball.

Matt Considine (13:51)
See, I'm I'm a self proclaimed field player. I I just believe I suck it lining up to a ball. So I

Brian Conley (13:57)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (13:58)
I just I I try to to use what I can to to align myself and then and then let the field step in. But teach their own. Teach their own. Brian, we we've been looking forward to this one for a while. The you know, we shared on the intro how special the park is. w I've not been

But I've been told by everyone, including the professor, just that, that that it it feels different. And I I I don't think they just mean the you know, top 100 golf course you guys got now, or or the lights,

Brian Conley (14:28)
Okay.

Matt Considine (14:28)
you know, the the lit up part three course. I I think most of the time what I hear in their voice is that the social temperature feels different, that the place itself, the people walking around.

professor mentioned in our intro just the diversity of of folks and this kind of community gathering point and and I'm curious when when you started shaping this thing and we'll get to kind of how you ended up to it because I heard that's a good story, but when you started shaping this thing, what were the non negotiables for how you wanted people to feel when when they showed up, you know, that first that first interaction.

With your with your place.

Brian Conley (15:11)
It it's really just one word, three letters. it the word fun. it it's so simple and and like a lot of people use it, it's very hard to live by. it seems like it shouldn't be, but it that word resonated from the very first conversation, the first phone call I had with Seth, to I can go outside my office right now and find any employee and they'll tell you it's one of our core values.

you just you almost can't make a mistake i if if a decision is mast is made based on that little word. and you know fun is different to everybody. Like, you know, some of us take it a little too extreme. Some people you might find something fun that other people find boring, but you know, if you find something to be fun on your own personal level, there's not a lot that can go wrong. and then you don't you don't have the barriers that we so many times put in front of ourselves through

overstandardization pressures and challenges of you know, look, this is a game. It boils down to a game. it's not a science. It's not a a template. there are rules and some people might argue there's too many. but it's a game. It's a place you go play a game and that's what we've kind of just tried to make it. and then everything else is kind of a sidebar to the game. it's obviously the top one hundred golf course, but there's so much more here than just playing golf.

but that's just the beauty about the game. That's what everybody says, you learn so many lessons from it. you can do anything you want at at this golf course essentially.

Matt Considine (16:31)
You mentioned the normal golf club behaviors, right? The I know you spent time in the private w golf world. Do you you had your experience with

Brian Conley (16:39)
Dress codes.

Matt Considine (16:41)
Yeah? Yeah. Like what what were me personally, it's sometimes we think, Okay, for more fun or for a better experience, we gotta add. Well, you know, we gotta add this, we gotta add that. But what what did you guys feel like you had to strip out? Because I feel like that's the the best places. It the ones that

They've really stripped out a lot of those, you know, golf club norms and and it's made the experience better.

Brian Conley (17:05)
Yeah. Look th there's a a word in golf that we it it's almost like protected of the word tradition. you know, what it what is tradition and is is some traditions benefiting the game or or not. Like I'm not here to try to change tradition and we we didn't necessarily want to redefine tradition in the park. We just wanted to realize w what is necessary and what's unnecessary. private clubs do tradition better than anybody. I mean the

greatest private clubs in the world are second to none in some places as far as their their ability to follow traditions and their traditions are amazing. it's what a lot of people respect about those. you know the parks four years old. And to for me to say we have a tradition, it's a little too premature to say that. So you know, we didn't want those traditions to create unnecessary standards or unnecessary rules where, you know, you couldn't be yourself. we wanted everybody to feel like we were truly open to anyone to come.

and experience the park, whether it was playing golf, on the championship I say championship, the full golf course or just to knock around on the putting course for free. w the we eliminated I guess the word tradition for those. So the etiquette, the things that are look they have a place where everyone wants to be conforming to an elevated standard, i.e. a private club, where there's commonality and those are things you look for.

You can't have that at a public golf course. 'cause you have so many different people from so many different backgrounds, like you've seen and experienced here at the park, is the commonality was not the goal. We can have an elevated experience without everyone looking and dressing the same, collared shirts, you know, wha whatever that might be. I mean, you can be respectful. We're not asking for anybody to show up and be be disrespectful, you know, over the top or anything. But come as you are, be who you are and you can have fun here and

You know, come up with your own traditions. So the park was definitely that was where the the open golf mantra kinda came from. was to eliminate the challenges and the barriers that were keeping people from trying the game. It's is an intimidating game, it is a hard game. clubhouses, memberships, rules, those things are they're very intimidating. I still feel intimidated sometimes. I've gotten the the pleasure to play some golf courses on top ten lists since coming down here and man, I you know, it's like walking on glass sometimes.

when when you're at some of these places, which is fine, but that's definitely not what we want anybody to feel like here.

The Professor (19:19)
Brian, I know we're gonna dive into, you know, how you intentionally strip some of those intimidating aspects away, but I wanna I wanna push into your story a little bit. Was this something that has always been on your mind, you know, being

Brian Conley (19:33)
Yeah.

The Professor (19:34)
in golf? Or when did this all of a sudden become a realization like, hey, golf can be different and I'm actually gonna be someone that tries to help make that happen? Where did you hit that apex in your life?

Brian Conley (19:44)
That's a great question. I thought about that before 'cause no, you're right. I mean I'm I I got into golf late in life, but early as a career and managed to stick through it. I was very fortunate to wind up not being a product of what a lot of my peers and friends did where they just couldn't keep going in the business because it was too hard. look we're none of us are none of us are self made millionaires in this business.

The Professor (20:06)
Yeah.

Brian Conley (20:06)
the

the pressures, especially with a college education in your mid twenties to go out and make more than twelve dollars an hour are strong, especially if you're starting a family, but anyway. somewhere when I started to just I guess get involved in a governance level with the Georgia PGA. I was outside of Atlanta. I just reopened for the the Williams family that had a a similar kind of a land lease to what we had down here.

with the state of Georgia for the Lanaire Islands resort. Just kinda realize that we weren't private, we're not gonna compete with private, we're daily fee. but we needed to be a little bit different and then recognize that y the differentiator, that was always a big word from from from Mr Williams, for us was not to try to be like everybody else. So what are some of the ways that we can be different but and be unique. And that was

relaxing some of the some of the traditional things that, you know, people talk about with the c the collared shirt, the dress codes, things like that. I didn't really get a chance to to put any of that to test, I guess, until going downtown for the Bobby Jones golf course. that was definitely where I first kinda heard the language of, look, we want to be different. we don't want to be the same as as everyone else. Everyone else does it great and

Kudos to them, let keep doing that. Let's try some things in an in an essence where maybe you wanted to try before, and I think a lot of guys did, but they just weren't in a position where they could take that risk. But we were fortunate with in Atlanta that we could take some risk. We could try some things that may or may not have worked. We were thankfully under a little bit of an umbrella where we we we were allowed to fail as long as we learned from those failures.

And we could challenge some of the norms. we saw it in in other sports. It wasn't we weren't necessarily new to that game. You saw it in some other sports that have, you know, challenges to to rules and traditions and etiquettes and things like that. the whole, you know, I guess that the top golf phenomenon was kinda going. It was like, my god, there's people playing there's people playing golf at a bowling alley and look, they're wearing shirts and all or T shirts and all kinds of stuff. So, you know, we were obviously wanting to attract some people.

whatever they call crossover golfers or everything like that. So that was kinda when I started to realize that, you know, we're gonna go down this road. I like change. I don't necessarily look for it for the sake of change, but also like asking the question, you know, why do you do something over and over again? You know, sometimes it is rational, reasonable to make to make changes and if you're in a place, kind of a an experiment lab, so to speak, then take advantage of that. And that's kind of what

Atlanta started out to be where we could we could experiment and do some things different and you know, if it w turned out to be the right thing to do, we obviously would realize that and if it wasn't we would we would change and pivot.

Matt Considine (22:42)
I'm gonna personalize this because it it hits home, Brian, because I was in my own little test lab with New Club Golf Society when I first connected with you and you were unbeknownst to me, you were also in the test lab at Bobby Jones. I I just loved that that interaction and in reflecting on it before we talked today, it was boy, here's somebody who is is asking why, who's who's trying to to really

I y you get so many in just in in our interaction, I got so many responses. that's not that's interesting, but it's not the way that w we do things. But you said that's interesting. Let me think about how that would play here. How like how I I could test that. And there's so much unwillingness to test and golf. And I think that truly is what holds us back from, you know, real innovation, not not

People hear innovation and they think about the ball going farther, but but really innovation and the experience that that we're talking about. And I so I can see why why you're you're an innovator. You've been put in a good position to succeed and test, it's it sounds like, but but you gotta learn those those lessons. You gotta be willing to to fail and and and iterate. I mean, that's just any anything that that got better, that's the process you go through, the painstaking process. So I I'm curious about some of those failures or some of those lessons,

What what were the things you learned from those early experiences doing it a little different that that you applied to the park, you know, today? I mean, I I gotta imagine the there's friction, you know, in in a lot of the way these places have gone about doing their public, private, all all of it. What what were some of those frictions and how did you how how'd you overcome them? How'd you adjust? I I'd love an example or two.

Brian Conley (24:26)
man. some of the friction is around what's it potentially the barrier of cost. the the word affordable. Like what's affordable? Look, maintaining a golf course is not cheap. It's also, you know, it's not free. you see these golf courses that get into economic

situations, I don't want to say necessarily failures, because of the pressure that they're they're trying to be too much for everybody or trying to be something they're not. and then the the imbalance and that they're they're afraid to charge what they're worth. They're afraid to say that, you know, in even in a relaxed or a fun atmosphere that this is an elevated product and this is what we're worth and this is what we're gonna charge. And to

I guess put it in perspective in Atlanta we jokingly said it was like, there's seven million people in Atlanta and we have a nine hole golf course. We only really have to be liked by, you know, seven or eight thousand people. So we can we can literally piss off six point nine five million people and we can still be successful. And obviously that was a an internal kind of a joke, but I guess that was it. It was like you know, nobody in the golf business likes hearing criticism, I think, because we're trying to be, you know,

everything to everybody and yes is always the answer and all this kind of stuff. But it it's not

The Professor (25:37)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Conley (25:37)
necessarily every golf course is for everybody or every every experience is for everybody. the public golf in Atlanta was very underpriced. That's why it was failing. That's why Bobby Jones golf course went out or when b the Bobby Jones Golf Course Foundation was created. It was an incredible name behind a facility that

had no reason bearing that name. And so some concerned people, Marty Ellison being the the leader of that, went out and said, look, we need to create a product that is worthy of this name. yeah, we're gonna have value to that, but guess what? It's not going to cost as cheap as what had happened. And so I guess that the you said the failures, I know if it was necessarily failure, but it that we understood that some people were just not going to find that our price structure was for them.

And that's fine 'cause there still were options. there were other options at every price point. I mean it's we it's kinda like buying a car. I'd love to go drive a Mercedes. I can't afford one. D Mercedes should not have to charge what I can afford because I want to go drive a Mercedes. there's some pretty damn nice GMCs and Fords and and and Kiyas out there. and they're just as good a quality and and value. I we felt that pressure a little bit more at the park because look we're in a

very very high end market. The the the park to even be relevant in Palm Beach had to be what it is, which is a truly unique and remarkable golf course maintained at a at a a a high standard of playability and turf conditions. 'Cause just look down the street at everyone that's around here and all your options. if the park was in Savannah, Georgia, it it doesn't need to be.

what it is right now because it's just not the expectation. But when you come down here you expect a golf course, a premium experience like what we give. and of course the costs and the prices reflect that, especially in season. we're a high end daily free golf course. There are

golf courses right down the street from us that are a fraction of what we are, and that's fine. So we don't all have to price it accordingly. So th the the pricing was not necessarily the mistake, but definitely the one that caught the most

the most friction or the created the most friction, and then just sticking with it and not being ashamed at what your price structure is. You know, we're we're gonna price it what it is and then we're gonna deliver on what our pricing shows. We're we're not afraid of that.

Matt Considine (27:50)
Yeah, I was looking at the tiering tier pricing for a a Florida resident, for a local a city resident, and then visitors like the professor and I and everything you just described actually is jumping off the page at me now. It's like you you you to to protect that well I guess it might I'll ask it as as this question of like I I see the the pricing model reflecting exactly what you just said, but

How do you protect the the local belonging piece, you know, the community piece? W whether it's the the amount of tea times, because you're always gonna the revenue pressure, right? Of of well, more visitor tea times it means a lot more revenue. So maybe we open it up a little bit. How do you protect, you know, something as as one to one as no, these are gonna be times for

for our local residents or th the booking windows are or such. I'd love to know about that. But then the other piece is just servicing those two

groups and you know I see this overseas and I always respect it where it's like boy in peak season there are busloads of visitors paying top dollar coming in but then there's like this protection of the the the local club, the local community, the the that sense of belonging, which I know you guys

guys have. So I I'd love to know the the balance there, Brian, both from a revenue standpoint and then just like an intentionality standpoint. How how hard is that to to protect?

Brian Conley (29:15)
It it boils down to I guess I'll say education. What I mean by education is you gotta you gotta look at the big picture and not at the singular tea time on a Thursday in January. so at the park is definitely a lot more complex. at Atlanta and with Bobby Jones, we were just trying to create a product that was

st affordable but still worth the price. We weren't trying to be a premium product. It was of an elevated, I'd say upper mid scale daily fee golf course. It was enjoyable, it was fun. but you you don't go down there that's not a signature golf course, I don't know, by Gilhan's and all that kind of stuff. So there wasn't as many complexities to the rate structure there. It was basically this is what we needed to charge based on the product that we were given and giving accessibility and being a nine hole golf course and all that kind of stuff.

Down here is definitely different. You

The we don't really have to protect it because we offer so much more than just that singular tea time. The locals in a transient market realize that they get to experience the park around. would they like to play golf in January in season on a Friday at ten o'clock? Sure. Are they gonna pay a little bit more? Absolutely. They're still gonna pay less than the out-of-state guy, but they also realize that if they took all of the

ability for us in that short period of time to maximize our revenues, then that means they're not going to get the golf course that right now on a Wednesday night, as you guys saw, has a hundred and six people playing in the nine hole league.

The Professor (30:41)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Conley (30:42)
And on a Thursday night that's got a mixed league. And by the way, every year on our birthday we let locals come play for free. and then I haven't even talked about it yet, they don't see the tremendous work that we're doing within the community with what the reason this project was created, which was the path.

So, when I mean education, it's if you like if you just if you're just gonna be stubborn and just look at look, you're charging three hundred and sixty dollars to play golf on a Friday in January, that's ridiculous in public. Well, all right, if you don't wanna at least listen and have a little bit more complex or a bit more a chance for me to kinda tell you, okay, well this is what we can do because we do this, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion and like I said, everybody you know, price is relative. the

The locals get it because they've seen everything else we do, the three festivals a year that we do that are free. Christmas around here, my god, if you come here on a Sunday before Christmas, we're running we're running two tractors back and forth to our teaching studio to take letters to Santa because Santa Claus is here. There's probably eight seven, eight hundred people on property. we show a a movie at night on the lawn where they're having popcorn and and cotton candy and

hot cocoa for the adults and such and and it's free to join just to come out here. The Easter egg hunt, if you find videos of that online, I'd I dare you to find a golf course public or private that has over a thousand kids simultaneously in three different Easter egg hunts for free to get to come out here and fill their baskets and and do that kind of stuff. So the locals get it. We're we're we're more than just a golf course. we're we truly and this was a hundred percent by design if you go back to the original conversation.

between the mayor, Mayor James and with Seth is that we're an amenity for the city residents. for everybody, no, you know, that's impossible. But those that realize that wow this is in my backyard, th they appreciate it and they understand. You know, we've we have to we have to make our bones during the time of year where we have to make our bones and

and we do it respectfully. but, you know, it takes a lot of fuel to run this to run this place and that's when we have our ability to get it. And again, like I said,

Not gonna be bashful about it. We're gonna give you that value when you pay that much.

The Professor (32:48)
Hey Brian, real quick, just so some of our listeners that maybe want to replicate this model, I wanna push in with the locals, did you do intentional messaging around this vision? Or do you just trust, hey, we're gonna do it and we're gonna execute it well and that's gonna paint the picture for because they're gonna see it in action over the first year or two?

Brian Conley (33:05)
I'd

say more the latter and and not necessarily by design. I mean it's this was such a a white page. There wasn't a template. I mean obviously my experience in Bobby Jones is one of the reasons that I was somewhat recruited to come down here, but even to my own ev even to my own experience there's I say there's very little we drew from it. I wasn't just handed here's the playbook, follow it.

We we just kinda built it w we we we built a seven forty seven mid flight, crossing the Atlantic. and the thankfully the plane didn't crash.

The Professor (33:35)
Yeah.

Brian Conley (33:35)
took a little while to get going. We were definitely we went through some storms, but you know, we we we did it as we went because to the credit of the of the guys, Seth and the team that that, you know, started this thing from the ground up, that was the way that they wanted to do it. It's like to just do it right. And they were understanding and and

knowing that we were gonna make some mistakes and have some bumps on the road, but that look we're gonna do it right, we're gonna kind of feel our way through it and see what the public said. So yeah, there was some initial messaging to the public. that I feel like we did deliver on, and and actually probably over deliver on. But I think the rest of it was they tr they eventually, and I think definitely now, they trusted us that it was the intent was to create the funnest place in golf.

Not to lie in anybody's pockets, not to make money for a bank because there's some loan out there that we it took out his huge mortgages and stuff on. it the truly the only people they're gonna benefit of th from the financial success of this place are the the local residents, through the kids and through the schools, and through those people who live in the backyard. So th once they understood that, that

we had their trust, that we could almost kinda just go about it in a trial and trial and error basis.

The Professor (34:42)
Love it. Brian, it's very clear you and Seth have a a close relationship and you've alluded to the recruitment a couple times. So I wanna I wanna dive into that. What did that recruitment look like? Did you know did he walk you on that tarmac and there's your half built seven forty seven with a couple parts lying around? Or or was something else that ha that got you down there from Bobby Jones?

Brian Conley (35:03)
I so back up to the summer of twenty twenty one. I think it was twenty one. the KPMG championship, women's championship was at the Atlanta Athletic Club. I was GM at Bobby Jones. we were trying to I see, I we we were very proud of what we did at Bobby Jones and were trying to get people to notice it. We wanted to be leaders, we wanted to be that kind of template.

we were one of the few that actually had an open facility. There were a lot of ideas and a lot of people who were trying to do this, but we were the really the only one that was open. Like here, learn from our mistakes and all this kind of stuff, experience it. We were also still fundraising and we were courting the PGA of America as well as some other financially well off foundations, for that project in Atlanta. And we were taking advantage. I was section president at the time, which the section offices

as you know, are at Golfhouse in Atlanta. There was a meeting that was arranged through the Georgia PGA and the P GA of America with the Arthur Blank Foundation. the P GA of America was soliciting the Arthur Blank Family Foundation to be a large donor for PGA Reach. They knew that Arthur was hugely a supporter of P GA Reach and veteran golf and everything and they were gonna ask him to be a trustee. Well we knew Seth was coming up and and knew that he had this project going on down here. There's

on the on funnier story no not funny but there's another story that involves a a P GA member that that essentially why this place even started was because they first seeked employment at Bobby Jones and we kinda went a different direction so that person came down here and talked to Seth and said, Hey I got this idea So anyway Seth w we knew

Matt Considine (36:37)
Ha.

Brian Conley (36:37)
s we knew Seth was coming to Atlanta and we wanted to kind of basically make a pitch

as both the section, the PJ section and Bobby Jones to say, Hey, can the PJ help us out after the w after we got out of the way of the the the Arthur Blank meeting. So I had Seth for twenty minutes because that's about as much time as he had before he had to get up to the Atlanta Athletic Club from downtown. He literally he just got off the plane. so I started giving him a tour and two and a half hours later

we had seen every inch of Bobby Jones' golf course. The teaching studio, the golf house, whatever. as you can say it sometimes I don't have a problem talking, probably rambling, but you know, we were we were very proud of what we did and I had a chance to show somebody what we had accomplished there, and you know, and and hopefully could get something of it. i it was I've by no means did I have any idea that that

turned out to be a recruiting visit. 'cause again that was like in June of that summer. Then r out of nowhere, January third, the first Monday after New Year's, whatever that is, six months later, at eight o'clock in the morning, which in January in Georgia, you're not doing anything. I was in my office, I think there's probably only five of us on property. It was freezing cold. There was nobody playing golf. I got a call from the section E D. down here.

Jeff Laugstead, who I'd met through governance as well too, and he said, Hey, so what do you think about coming down here and opening the park? And I thought he was kidding. 'cause look, everything was great in Atlanta. I just I was in a really good spot. and then I realized, you're serious? He goes, Yeah.

The Professor (38:09)
Yeah.

Brian Conley (38:10)
Seth wanted me to make this call and he wants to talk to you about this. I was like, Okay, so

You know, I th I s I guess I left it open ended but I immediately walked into Scott Geary's office, which is right around the corner from mine, who is our E D for the Georgia PGA we just recently hired and he looked at me and said, You're an idiot if you don't go down there and do this. So I I I

Matt Considine (38:30)
Yeah.

Brian Conley (38:31)
again at the moment that he called I kinda thought of it as a lateral move. You know, I just opened a golf course. Why don't wanna go open another golf course? but once we started to see just to the next level of what this place was going to to do

and what Seth and that team had already kind of started the the groundwork in in the division, I realized, you know, the importance of what that recruiting trip was and

why it was and started, you know, having the conversations with you guys down here. I flew down maybe two months after that when they got serious about starting to put the team together, getting closer to when they thought they were gonna open and the rest is history. So it it was all I say it's by accident, but you know

It definitely was not something intentional or something that I sought out and but I'm very fortunate that, you know, but i look, it's right place, right time. and taking some risks.

Matt Considine (39:20)
You know, something I I said, Brian, in the early intro was, you know, when I on the outside looking in, everyone everyone says like, Man, every city needs a place like the park. And and then when I hear stories like that, I go, Well, there's a lot of things that need to come together, you know, for it to actually be be the case. And I I guess I th I I wanna get to this this idea of is is the model you guys have transferable or does it travel?

And you know, a part of that, and I'm just gonna fast forward us here, you know, from your your your you get the the gig, you come down. Yeah, we're five years past that fifty-five million dollar charitable fund that built this incredible place. We're y you guys are are in the throes of of managing a lot from outside looking in.

Brian Conley (40:11)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (40:12)
What what what is the actual

model, Brian, like

Brian Conley (40:16)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (40:17)
is I I'd love to know just a little bit of like what pays for what and and and how how can we learn from your guys' example if we're in, you know, Boise, Idaho, or we're in Akron, Ohio, or in Atherans, Georgia. Cause because I I I think that's where I that that's where it doesn't always add up for me is it seems like there's some rare circumstances that led to the park that not everywhere's gonna have.

Brian Conley (40:40)
Yeah,

I so two things. is it is it repeatable anywhere? Yeah, a hundred percent it is. the commonality isn't the scale. th the park is on a scale, like I said, it's not necessary, it's also not repeatable. Like th y if you're familiar, which I wasn't and I'm still learning, this is a very unique part of our country. you know, there is an amazing number of people from what

a an enormous amount of not just wealth but also the generosity of what they do with that wealth. I mean to raise fifty five million dollars in essentially days is is incredible. It's remarkable. Is it repeatable? Probably not. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. what is the common thing between what was happening in Atlanta and what happened here is is the people. you know, Marty Elgerson who passed recently, unfortunately, was a saint.

I'll get choked up talking about. you know, he was he was Seth in Atlanta. he had a vision. It it was not my vision. I was just fortunate enough that I was one of the people that was selected to to act on that vision. Seth had a vision down here. It's it's the it's a TED talk. You know, you gotta have a why. the why isn't a playbook from a a management company or

a previous golf course or what a pro that used to do or anything like that. The the why is actually it's organic, it's personal, and it typically comes from a very a a very unique and a very incredible person. that then now the golf course is the vehicle to that why. you eliminate and I remember that Marty kinda said this and was misquoted, you y you eliminate the

the profitability. What what he meant to say and what happens is you you eliminate the individual who is profiting off of this business. 'Cause make no mistake, this is a business. It is a game but we have to we have to be sustainable. So we run this like a business. But again, no one's trying to re to to recoup a return on an investment. There's not a a bank loan outstanding or anything like that. We're truly being able to make decisions one hundred percent mission driven. That is very, very difficult.

We're very incredibly fortunate to be able to do that here. But if if you have the why and you have the financial ability to generate or to create a product that you take the profitability or nature out of it or or the the the person who gains to profit out of it, then I think you can do this anywhere. again, the scale has to match the market that you're in. This isn't Savannah, Georgia, this isn't Buffalo, New York, this isn't Cleveland, Ohio, this is Palm Beach, this is

the home of golf or whatever Palm Beach County deems itself it's the the most golf courses per capita or per per square mile in the in the in the country if not in the world with you know there's top tens it feels like on every corner stuff like this. So the park had to be at this level to be relevant in the conversation down here. And it was, but you don't need to build the park everywhere in order to be successful. Bobby Jones is a really, really fun, unique nine hole golf course in an incredibly small

footprint of land. So if you're true to the scale of the project, then yes, I think if you have the right people in place with the right intentions in place, this 100% is replicable everywhere. They're doing it on the west coast over here with the gate in Fort Myers. Obviously I think everybody is is very well aware of what's happening up in Philadelphia with Cobbs Creek. there are other examples

The Professor (43:58)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Conley (43:59)
of this here. So

You know, I'm not I don't have a template, nor would I expect anybody to try to do this to follow our lead and necessarily do it the way we did it. we do want to be one of one. But in a way we were we do really wanna be one of many. That was another thing Seth wanted to do. I don't think he necessarily wanted to create the game book. What I think he wanted to do is to show people it's possible. And if we show that it was possible the same way we showed it's possible in Atlanta, then, you know, kinda come up with your own gay book. 'Cause it it definitely has to speak to that region.

Bobby Jones is an Atlanta hero. the Bobby Jones golf course is not gonna work in Lexington, Kentucky. Nobody knows who Bobby Jones is in Lexington, Kentucky. You had a golf course that was named after a hero in Atlanta that, you know, didn't represent that person's name well enough. So it it tugged on that kind of local heart string. You know, the the park's local heart string that was tugged on is this is the home of golf in in the United States and they wanted to create, as you guys saw,

Professor played it, a golf experience like none other in South Florida. This is not a South Florida golf course. There is not a drop of water

The Professor (45:02)
No.

Brian Conley (45:03)
on this golf course. it definitely looks like you're in a different part of the world where you're playing this golf course. So it was unique to that. So that that's that's that personal touch to it. But by all means, man, it it it's I really hope that more places do this 'cause it is it's necessary. It's it's just as necessary as the true Muni that's you know

maybe fifteen dollars to walk nine holes in an afternoon and are you gonna play on golf course turf conditions like you do at the park? No, but that's but that's not necessary everywhere you play. You don't have to tee it up on on that kind of conditions every time you play it in order to play golf or in order to grow the game. you know we all like to go out for a nice dinner from time to time. That's kind of the way we treat the park in the season. No, we're not we don't expect you to have three games a week out here. That'd be ridiculous. but at that point go join a club. That's kind of what you're looking for.

but this is a guy's trip. This is a a an a week end trip to come play a really cool experience that you don't have to be a member. it's just anybody can come down here and this. And then in the summertime like it is right now, like you guys see, we're in the off season, but we're still busy. I said we're still putting out hundred and hundred and fifteen people in shotguns in the afternoon that are couples, you know, newlyweds, whatever, they're all out there playing. It's it's what they do. So that's kind of the

the personal connection to it.

Matt Considine (46:16)
I I I got some questions about that. in the as we're talking in the heat of summer, I I would definitely want to get to it. But that answer, there's so much illustrative in in that answer, Brian. I I wonder what you the that I I just like that it's repeatable repeatable, but maybe not at that scale. So that that's what I to hear. Is like the model, there's so much in the model that is repeatable, but just

You know, it's gonna be a big slightly different scale for different municipalities and communities that are looking to do it. But I I'm curious about kind of the benchmark for success moving forward. Do you think for the park is it self sufficiency

Brian Conley (46:55)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (46:56)
or is there is there nothing wrong with a civic golf place, a golf community that permanently has, you know, a good business but is reliant on ph philanthropy?

Brian Conley (47:10)
I the the

The philanthropic nature of it, and my experience only being in these two facilities, fundraising was easy I say easy. Fundraising was less difficult before anyone ever played around a golf at either facility. And then you become kind of a a product of your own success. I do not come from a philanthropic background. foundations are brand new to me. This whole idea of giving millions of dollars

For others I I'm a hundred percent in supportive of it, but I am by no means you know, that is not w that's not my background. I have seen both in both instances, both golf courses to a degree, different degree, we're still in the in a fundraising mode. one more one more passive than the other. But listen, you're there's a there's always gonna be people asking for those people's money. They're fishing from a very small barrel.

once you've kind of once people realize that you're sustainable, there's less propensity to say, Well do you really need it? So, you know, Atlanta it Bobby Jones never had th the foundation was there to rebuild and to give the capital influx to get that golf course to a sustainable letter level from that point on. And then at that point just basically be a landlord. There was not any is in essence of there was never gonna be necessarily an a surplus

of funds for any endowment or anything after the fact. It was to build a golf course that was then gonna be financially sustainable from that point on. Kind of resetting, so to speak, where it had been left in disrepair for so long by those that managed it beforehand. So it was kind of get it back to level and then let it go. This was very different and part of the nature of the fundraising is there was always intentionality of there to be a surplus

and that endowment be what funds the path that I mentioned earlier and everything that we do on the community level that is not golf. the community program that we provide for the path is a multi level from elementary to high school program where we take the kids in the schools most closest to us and we provide them the necessary educational and otherwise help that they need.

in order to get through school and to change and to get them back on a better path in life. you can obviously check this out on our website. It is far more we would have we could do another podcast on the path. And I'll definitely bring Dave here because he's a whole lot better

Matt Considine (49:27)
I gonna say we might Yeah.

Brian Conley (49:29)
at talking about it than I can be, but the videos are on there, the everything. So anyway, the the the financial model here was always going to be look, the golf course was going to be sustainable and the operations of the golf course were going maintain itself.

in perpetuity and that we any any income that we do produce goes into a capital reserve fund for as you know future projects, you know, the new air conditioning units, new roofs for these buildings, new greens fifteen years down the road. Things things happen, right? You can't just leave them there. So the golf course was always going to reinvest in itself. And then the endowment that was left over was going to take care of everything else.

does operations pay for some of the the path? Sure it does. Yeah, absolutely. We're we're we're in the same umbrella. There's, you know, a foundation and there's an L L C which is the golf course. So it's all kinda going to the same place, but again, no one's profiting on it. There's no kickbacks, there's no checks being cut to anybody. no one is financially benefiting off of the success of the park. the park is b benefiting from its own success and that was always the the premise was that we would be

a sustainable entity. It's a 50 year lease for the city of West Palm Beach. the city definitely doesn't want to fund it anymore. They were losing a million dollars a year in operating costs up until when they closed the golf course

The Professor (50:41)
Ha ha.

Brian Conley (50:41)
in 2018. We just took a million dollar loss off their books. And so they're they're hey they're happy.

The Professor (50:47)
Ha ha.

Brian Conley (50:48)
you know if we're done spending money, if we have funded all capital programs and things that we want to or need to do in order to keep this place

at the standard that we want to, then a portion of it does go back to the city for them to put in their parks and rec. and then that's I mean it's written into the lease and that's a great thing for them, but by no means are they looking or expecting that money down the road because we took one of their assets and we've now made it one of the hottest things in golf, right here in their backyard, hosting things like the match, hosting things like the PGA Reach Works. We're putting eyeballs on West Palm Beach and I can't let the cat out of the bag but by the time this thing

airs

We'll also be hosting a new event first of the year to bring more

The Professor (51:30)
Ooh.

Brian Conley (51:30)
eyeballs and more attention not only to the park, but also to West Palm Beach. So that's what we're here for. We're we're an amenity to the city of West Palm Beach that they can be proud of and to run that way. So but you know, the financial model is again the the word I think that's important when I talk to peers that are trying to do this in other areas, is just be scalable and be realistic. not everyone needs fifty-five million dollars, not everyone's capable of doing fifty-five million dollars.

You know, if it's a a nine million dollar golf park, if it's a twelve million dollar range in par three, i just being what you are and understanding your identity, you can still have the same vibe at places like that. I'm sure you guys have seen all over the place. That's what's important, is just understanding the identity that you are and realizing that the benefit is is different everywhere that it's at and you don't have to be a top one hundred in order to accomplish it.

The Professor (52:17)
And you're you're pulling out my heartstrings here, Brian. This is so so refreshing. your orientation towards being mission driven with so important that you pulled out with profit and investment not being that mission, right? Because I truly think the best businesses in terms of the consumer and what they get, they operate under that, right? Their mission is really consumer oriented. And we've moved into such a a a world with, you know, venture capitalists and that that VC world.

in private equity world where it is more about the profit, that you know, that is the major mission. So hearing that and I think country clubs actually fall into that too much too. They lose their mission and just turn into being too much of a business. So so so so refreshing. And I I gotta circle back on you because you mentioned, you know, you don't have experience with foundations and didn't have that background.

But yet here you are being at two of the most mission driven places in the last decade around golf. So what is it about you that aligns with a mission driven

Brian Conley (53:14)
Ha ha ha.

The Professor (53:14)
place and that, you know, they see you as someone that can help them accomplish what they accomplished, but also you you've been you've gravitated towards that. So there's something in the fabric of you that puts you in this seat talking to us now.

Brian Conley (53:27)
I don't know, I guess it's cliche 'cause you w inside the box, outside the box, you know what what the hell is the box? Who creates it? Wha who who gets to who gets to say what the box is, right? I I definitely am more comfortable outside of the box, just by nature.

You know, I realized that very early on and it's the whole reason I'm even in the golf business is I s I've I've I've followed templates all the way through school, all the way through college at UGA. You know, we y there was like a timeline that we were all supposedly on that defined our own success where conformality w you know, you get your degree, go out, get your job, have you know, two point five kids, white picket fence, all this kind of stuff. I've very quickly learned after graduating from U GA and and going through

the recruitment process for some firms and some marketing companies that I was not nine to five in an office cubicle, you know, suit and tie. Like, my God, if I did the two if I did something two days in a row, by the third day I was bored or just, you know, hang me.

The Professor (54:29)
Ha ha.

Brian Conley (54:29)
so I think my nature of just like I don't want two days to be I the same period. Like I want everybody every day to be different.

And you have to work to be different. it's hard to be different. change is very hard. And we're in a business and we're in an a a an industry, if you want to call golf an industry, where there is a reluctance to change because I think too many guys have been you know they've they had found unfortunate consequences to to failure. So we were almost taught not to fail.

So no one took those chances. and like I said, I just I guess my personality, my experience or maybe even my own just seeking it out. I found niches in places where was given the ability to fail as long as I learned from it. or as long as the nature of the decisions came from the right place. So, you know, th listen, I'll d I love making money. that's my scorecard, not

section events is a P and L,

The Professor (55:25)
Yeah.

Brian Conley (55:26)
like, I'm gonna make something sustainable, I'm gonna figure out how to make it work. you know, but oddly enough, the last two golf courses necessarily that wasn't this it's mission driven statement is to to be able to make money. That was definitely was the case with the with the family resort back, you know, in Georgia. There was a a financial investment by that family that they obviously wanted to recoup, so that was definitely financial driven. But these last two

have been more foundationally driven. sustainability took a little bit longer to get to in Atlanta and thankfully here it did not.

so that's kinda how I look for profitability. I think of it more as sustainability, but I have the I have the the freedom thankfully from the people who I work for, who also w I mean to surround myself also with guys and girls who equally realize that, you know, listen, we're

We don't know how this is gonna work. We're just gonna do our best and at the end of the day, again, if everybody has fun doing it, we're probably gonna get to where we are and so far we have.

Matt Considine (56:20)
We we gotta talk about walking.

Brian Conley (56:23)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (56:24)
Professor, we you you it wouldn't be right if we had y'all we didn't talk about the the merits of of walk-in. Cause I I know you've you've made the public case for for walk-in, you know as as many have, and you know, it it's usually the arguments around experience and and well being, health, so many things that we the professor and I, you know, agree with wholeheartedly. But

As I'm getting ready for the talking to you, Brian, I'm looking, you know, I got the ProPublica data on the park, and I'm looking at the usage numbers. And you guys, you're making the case from a revenue perspective, you know, both with just your pricing tiers that you already talked about, but you know, the caddy program. And I want to dive into this because not only are you a walking first golf operation, but you're doing it in the southeast, man. I don't what's

Brian Conley (57:11)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (57:11)
the temperature out there today? Like,

how how do you manage that? How do you how do

Brian Conley (57:13)
P index is a hundred and five. so that

Matt Considine (57:16)
you do it?

Brian Conley (57:17)
that was one of the things like I said, I I'd really love it when somebody says you can't do something 'cause it almost drives me to say okay, wanna bet. so here

Matt Considine (57:24)
Ha ha.

Brian Conley (57:24)
I was, you know, redneck in South

The Professor (57:26)
Love it.

Brian Conley (57:26)
Florida, we got everybody's like first of all, public golf courses, nobody walks. It's South Florida, nobody can walk. anyway, it was a challenge. I look, again, the park is very unique. Kudos to Gil and and this design and then Dirk Ziff who

did the routing, I mean it's it's remarkable, it's phenomenal, but as I've said, it's intentional. This is a walkable golf course. it's not, you know, seven miles of cart pass meandering through condos and homes and whatever. So again, this can't this can't necessarily this doesn't necessarily translate to everywhere. it was built to walk. And if a golf course is designed to be walkable, I will make the case

that the majority of people

will walk it. the game is better and more fun when walked. golf carts and I know I got a lot of guys in in that business back in Augusta, they're a nuisance. They get in the way. They they I feel like are more the case of slow play than walking. so anyway, it was it was a challenge that I obviously a hundred percent accepted to make walking

a mantra here and part of e our ethos. and everyone said, yeah, they'll they'll fail. So like I said, that was all the all the drive I needed. So we hired the right people to build an incredible caddy yard. We hired great caddies. w the the caddy yard here is remarkable talking about a success that we didn't see coming. We get over 200 applicants a year for season for caddies.

that want to come down here and caddy at the park just because of what we built here. we were we we defined success before we opened as look if we can play a fourth or a third of our rounds walking and with caddies, then, you know, great, we did it. It's sustainable. We can we can go from there and then yeah, then everybody who wants to to ride in a cart can can ride in a cart. What I learned after looking around here is that well, the reason no one walks in South Florida is 'cause they don't let

it's not necessarily by

The Professor (59:26)
Hmm, hmm.

Brian Conley (59:27)
choice. There's a par three golf course out on the island that some thinking, well surely it's a part three golf course. People walk a par three golf course, no one walks it. I was like, why wouldn't anybody want to walk it? And then realize they don't let Carts are revenue. Car car fees

The Professor (59:40)
Wow. On a part three course.

Brian Conley (59:42)
are revenue. So there's a golf course that's like, okay, are you are you do people not want to walk or is it you don't let walk? Because again, also people like private clubs are walkers are slow, walkers, whatever. Well, maybe they're slower than a

private course where everybody's got their personal golf cart that does twenty six miles an hour, has seat belts and everybody's got their own cart and they're just running through and and and like some of the private clubs were, you know, the eight footer kick it back, that's good. All right, that's pace with the play. Anyway, we're we're walking here We're we're

Matt Considine (1:00:10)
It's

The Professor (1:00:10)
I've hear you're you're speaking my language. Just keep keep cooking, Brian.

Brian Conley (1:00:14)
w we're walking here and look we let it we let it organically grow as much as it did and so here's the organics of it is we're still since day one. Fifty five percent

of our rounds are walking year round. We do mandate walking early in the morning, in the summertime before ten AM, we're walking only. And in season before noon we're walking only. So but I will tell you that even in the afternoon we have guys walking. We have girls walking. When when carts are available, we are still playing fifty percent of those rounds by walking. The caddy thing is phenomenal. We talked about all right, what's a good number of loops

that would define success is like, well let's do six thousand loops. We're on pace to do thirty thirteen thousand, a little over thirteen thousand loops this year. we have a caddy mandatory period. it's the first hour of the day, every day all year long, but then after that it's by choice. and that's it. So you of the thirteen thousand rounds that we do, less than twenty percent of are because we make you take a caddy. The rest of the time they're taking caddy 'cause want to.

Man, I didn't never get a chance to know. I didn't know the first I the first caddy round of golf I ever had was when I got a chance to play Pebble Beach, however many, fifteen so odd years ago. And it was cool. And then where else do you get a chance to do that? In the public space, hardly ever hardly anywhere. So we're giving somebody a an experience that they don't get and and again, like I said, we're we will back it up. Our caddies are phenomenal. The guys are great. They get to play the golf course. They're not the so they know the golf course as well as anybody and they're really good caddies. We

Actually we have sixty four guys that were in the yard this year and all sixty four of were here the year before. We did not have any new caddies come in other than our junior caddy program, which is a little bit separate. But our seasonal caddies that come in north south or come in for season, they were all rehired. So they all want to be here and stick around and come back to the park when they come back down here for the wintertime. So yeah, walking is a thing, man. Walk the park, you've seen the T shirts, you've seen the stuff on social media, it's a thing here and I

I am a hundred percent convinced it's it's not that people don't wanna walk. people just don't let you know, whether it's the way the golf course is built, designed, laid out, or the rules of the of the facility is like, no, we want your cart money. I don't want you to walk, you're gonna slow everything down. So I think what you were alluding to earlier, Matt, is something I shared with you guys that look we track rounds, we track pace of play. We're obviously on top of that as much as as any public golf course should be. And

Year in, year out so far since we've opened, we are consistently between twelve and fifteen minutes faster on our walking rounds of golf than any carted round of golf. I think the statistics of ninety ninety percent of our sub four hour rounds of golf are walking.

The Professor (1:02:55)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Conley (1:02:55)
And flip that, ninety percent of our four and a half hour rounds of golf are in golf carts. it's just look

game was played to walk, man, and and l there are people who obviously various health reasons that are unable to walk and maybe they wish they could and they can't. So we obviously we do allow for medical purposes someone to take a cart but this it's just that person. Their caddy is still walking. They're just they're using the cart to get from point A to point B for medical reasons and that's it. but the rest of the time, man, you come out of the park and y you feel like you're out there by yourself.

when you're playing when everybody's walking with caddies and there's a hundred and twenty people on the golf course.

The Professor (1:03:35)
Man, I gotta jump

Matt Considine (1:03:35)
Brian, you're

The Professor (1:03:36)
in real Matt real quick. I gotta jump in and apologize because I did one of my few riding rounds down there of the year. It'll be one of the like less than five probably. I I've I feel

Matt Considine (1:03:44)
So you're the forty five percent, huh, Professor?

The Professor (1:03:46)
I feel guilty because br I love Brian spitting actual data on this. Everything is Brian is saying about walking versus riding is absolutely true. We have the data. The USGA has done studies on this. but Al, if you're listening.

I'm not succumbing to your it's going to be hot. We got a ride thing. We are taking caddies next time. No questions asked if you're listening to this, Al.

Matt Considine (1:04:08)
Well and and sincerely, you know, I I I've succumbed to profession. Usually it is heat, the the the way that people will will kinda get me.

The Professor (1:04:15)
It does get hot down here. I mean I yeah.

Matt Considine (1:04:18)
Atlanta's got a lot of hills and and and people, you know, you you do want to have some safety. But Brian, is there it's a flatter golf course of course t than than many. what are there precautions you need to take in the summertime for having a higher percentage of of walkers? Like what what what are some of the other little things that just support it when it's hot?

Brian Conley (1:04:34)
Yeah, we're

The Professor (1:04:35)
Free bottled water.

Brian Conley (1:04:36)
yeah, water. you know, we always have bottled water. Actually during the walking hours right now we we put the old school Gatorade cans out there. but but look the the

Matt Considine (1:04:43)
that's that's just a that's just a that's fantastic.

Brian Conley (1:04:47)
caddy the caddies know I mean it gets hot in a cart too. the caddies know we know what to look for. People just are used to it. I mean there's plenty of thirty plus foot of elevation. I mean obviously it's not the foothills of Atlanta.

it's not that kind of elevation. So it's not a hundred percent flat here.

Brian Conley (1:05:06)
The distance from green to to T, and then T straight to green, just you're going to you know, I mean in some cases you're gonna walk more in a carted round here than if

than otherwise. But yeah, we do we have precautions? Sure. We give everybody every ability to stay hydrated, right? We got the you know, whatever you want to call these things that took social media by storm a few years ago. we give everybody a chance and we encourage everyone to stay hydrated. The caddies do a great job to make sure their players stay hydrated. They recognize when people are starting to get a little bit hot or overheated and such. So but you know, here in South Florida, most people understand what what they're getting into when they come down here.

Matt Considine (1:05:41)
So yeah, just walk more everybody. Come on. That's that's and and that's build more walking and friendly golf courses. That that was the way you guys set expectations

The Professor (1:05:48)
Bingo.

Matt Considine (1:05:49)
around this too, Brian, is just outstanding. just being on the website, seeing the language you have. b everyone with conversation, as you said earlier, everyone can kind of get on the same page. And w with that idea, one of the last topics I wanted to to dive into with you is

You know, the thing people keep saying is after they visit, as the professor did, that, you know, th th the golf is real, it's serious, this is a fantastic world class golf course, but the place doesn't feel like it only belongs to those serious golfers, you know, those people that are gonna make a pilgrimage that are gonna come down like myself, to to, you know, see the golf. If there wasn't the the that level of golf course, a lot of those guys would guys and gals wouldn't be making the the trip. But how do you keep the the architecture nerds, the

you know, the neighborhood family who's who children that are in the the path program, the the lit nine date night crowd, the the the total beginners on the top tracer reign, like like how do you keep all feeling a part of the place and and and balancing? Is it servicing all those different groups in those different ways? Is it allocation of of time and resources? I mean, h how do you do that? 'Cause I think that from a management standpoint seems like the most

impressive thing that's happening.

Brian Conley (1:07:03)
The pe it's people. a hundred percent the staff that's here. the people we hired, understanding the values that we respect from those of us that were part of the original leaders hired by the the Seth and the guys, the team that they allowed me to assemble and then that filtering through all the way to the front line. It's it's a culture thing. And look, everyone I I wanna say they claim culture, it's a buzzword.

it it when it really isn't and it really is truly what you have, which I'm I'm very thankful we have here, that is where it resonates. I experienced it first in Atlanta, oddly enough, because

That was one of the early criticisms, is like, well, how you can you be this open, you know, people were gonna expect this and whatever. And thankfully I'd already kind of seen in Atlanta, so I didn't I wasn't afraid of it down here, even though it was on a it's on a completely different level. I mean it's all steroids down here. You have billionaires playing golf with, you know, sixteen-year-old kids and whatever. But anyway, we noticed in Atlanta one day, we kinda laughed about it. there was an a member at Peachtree that we all knew. There's also a member at Augusta and I.

and he's sitting on the range and he's hitting golf balls at Bobby Jones on the mats b on a Monday because Pete was closed and literally right next to him was one of the kids from the other side of the the golf course who lived in the condos who was there in a tank top, some basketball shorts, some tennis shoes and the

The guy who looked exactly like could you expect a guy, you know, button down, buttoned up, pressed everything, right? He helped the kid out. Helped the kid out with a swing, showed him his grip. it was remarkable. And I think anyway, that was kind of the aha moment that the staff there in Atlanta realized, like, you know, we we we play different golf courses, we expect different experiences. Some of us are fortunate enough to be able to afford certain experiences, some of us less fortunate, etcetera. But when it all comes down to it, you're still playing the same game.

And that commonality is more inherent and transcends socioeconomic differences and stereotypes and all that stuff than I think most people give credit. I I love Caddyshack. I absolutely love it. the painting is down here. one of the best movies actually used to make my staff all watch it, but anyway.

But I think that the tongue-in-cheek way that it created that kind of, my god, no, the the hired help, the caddies and all stuff, while that does technically exist, at the end of the day, I don't think the reality of it exists as much as people realize. So when you give someone a place like this where everyone is essentially the same and and the commonality of it, and you can experience the game how you're used to and accustomed doing it. And just because the group in front of you has speakers and the group behind you has carts and the groups

two f two holes in front of you might have caddies, you're still playing the same game. You're playing the same golf course. Somebody's over on the part three, you know, walking barefoot, playing the golf course, which for some reason seems to be a thing. Most people, if you go over to the part three, it's everyone leaves their bags and their shoes on the first tee. It's just like it's a thing. They want to get, they want to get one of these little drinks and they want to play the part three barefoot. Knock yourselves out. And then, you know, right next to them on the golf course is

someone that just you know they're they're down here on a golf trip that just played us and Seminole and and Pine Tree and and they're here for a completely different reason. But they they can coexist. They all love golf. We all love golf. it means different things to each of us but at the same time we love it equally and everyone just kind of coexists and they get along. So it

We understand that, the culture, the people here understand that and they because of that, that's just that that when you come here you realize that no one is on, including the staff, is on pens and needles. you know, God, I'm gonna I'm gonna F up and say something wrong or whatever like that. or I'm gonna look wrong and look out of place, you know. I'm walking around here with T shirts and shorts and stuff on, so everyone else can do that as well too. so a I think that's it. I think it's just the people understanding that look, we're there's more

We have more in common than we don't, so and and we have the game in common and from that point on the rest of it just happens. It's it's it's organic.

Matt Considine (1:10:48)
It it it it's such a powerful thought. And I think most most of the most of us will think, okay, you know, the y I'll just use your great example, you know, the kid in the tank top and the basketball sh know, th that there's something really valuable for him getting into golf and that gentleman, Augusta National. Well you know, what opportunities could he open up for that kid? Just let's say it went from there. And

Brian Conley (1:11:05)
Absolutely.

Matt Considine (1:11:06)
everyone thinks about it that way and and it it's very real. I mean, we we know the the park is a direct result of that, right? With with the

the charitable

fun f fundraising and all the

Brian Conley (1:11:17)
Okay.

Matt Considine (1:11:17)
people that can really drive something, you know, with with their their stature and their place in life. But I also see it the the other way where that kid reminds, you know, the guy that's played all the top 100s that has had this remarkable golf life already, reminds him what the fundamental thing is about the game that can be enjoyed. And it actually starts to change the culture at the very top of of the level because these

Brian Conley (1:11:40)
Total.

Matt Considine (1:11:41)
guys go from the park and go, well

I was in a much better mood at Bobby Jones, or I was in a much better mood, or or maybe I'm a little bit more appreciative of some of these things and or maybe we don't need so much of that. And it starts to work together. And and so I've I've seen time and time again a lot of people that I call friends who who are are at some of the the best clubs and have lived the best golf lives. They you just see something light up in them when they get to a place like yours, like Bobby Jones, like the others, because

I think what's happening is just they're just reminding themselves what's fundamentally really good about this game.

Brian Conley (1:12:17)
Yep, a hundred percent. I get to see it and experience it. Look, there's people who who I'm working with and I won't say who or where because I don't want to get them in trouble at their clubs, but i they know that it's gonna be different when they come to the park and not in a bad way. It's gonna be more relaxed. they're

They're they look for that kind of relaxed experience. I jokingly we'll talk about it again, I said, you know, everybody likes to go and have a good steak, but man, you can't beat a really good hamburger either.

The Professor (1:12:41)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Conley (1:12:42)
you know, you get a little catch-up on your shirt, who cares? Nobody's gonna make fun of you or anything like that. So you know, there's there's a there's a time and place for everything and I again i if as long as you're not surprised, yeah, people come here and immediately realize they can be themselves, whatever that is, buttoned up, collared, everything.

everything, whatever, we're cool with that, totally cool with that. But at the same time somebody was gonna come here relaxed. They didn't expect to play today, you know, they were doing they were at work, they worked late, they just threw on a T shirt at the golf shop and then went out and played. Like that's that's also equally fine too, so

Matt Considine (1:13:16)
Well, I I we'll we'll start winding down, Brian. I could keep going with you, man, for f on so many different subtopics within this. but i if th th this might be a tough one to answer, but I I think with so many your your guys' national attention, you know, has has really put the spotlight on the model. And and I think you answered a lot of my questions already. But you know, think things from the the event you mentioned, first of the year, you know, the match prior

PGA works, Steph Curry's underrated tour. You know, you guys have got this this spotlight, and I think you've used it well because it it's made a lot of people like me curious about what what is it going on? Like this is really impressive. And I'm I'm just curious for those that of us that wanna copy, you know, build our own playbooks like we said earlier. We wanna w what is the fake version look like? Like what what is the the version that maybe borrows the the

idea or the the aesthetic of it and it misses the point because I I I'm feeling you guys don't miss the point but sometimes there's there's probably a a path that could could take people down a way that where they miss it. So what's the version to avoid, I guess, is is what I'm asking.

Brian Conley (1:14:28)
I don't I don't know that you if I understand the question I don't know that you can see that from the surface or from the outside. the the imposters, I guess, so to speak, if that's what you're asking. you'll see it from the inside eventually. You know, you they can fake it for a while, but you know, I I mentioned sustainability. you know, look, sustainability, it's it's funny that something can be so

mission driven and then you look at a P N L and you're like, Wow, you know, there's people who are trying to o influence a PNL that aren't producing this. You know, I think it's and that I think that's a lesson to be learned or can be taught in in all industries. It's not just not just golf. So, you know, I think that the the imposters are the ones that just don't they don't they they don't pass the test of time. they they change

Their identities change and you can see and feel that when you go to places. and that's not to say that you eventually see that or feel that when you go to the you know, to Bobby Jones or or to the park one day. I I definitely don't suspect it. but you know, times change and things change with with respect to everywhere. So yeah, the the imposters are the the ones that that are faking it, you know, they could probably put on a good show for a little while, but ultimately down the road you you see it you see it happen. The other ones I think

are the ones that never they never get to the point where they just they they open. It's like, you know, I everyone has their challenges, I get it, and a lot of times it's it's money. Sometimes it's the s the municipals not agreeing or things like that. I said, but you know

think we opened up Bobby Jones golf course in ten months and I think this place opened in fourteen months. So, you know, you sometimes you just rip the band-aid off, open it and see how it goes. It seems like some of the others just kinda drag their feet and never really get to the point where they open or fully open for whatever reason. So, you know, maybe there there there's other other things that are leading to those,

to those examples that may or may not be for the right reason or or whatnot. So, you know, I don't necessarily think that the those that aren't successful were necessarily or fake or didn't do it right. You know, it look it's it's not easy. and it's not going to work everywhere, but I think if you're true to the identity and you understand where you're at, where you're coming from, that yeah, you can replicate this at at a at at a a

an appropriate level or appropriate scale anywhere you want do it.

The Professor (1:16:36)
Yeah, I think you hit the net the nail on the head there, Brian. That so many call imposter if you want, take like say open golf. You know, they take that, that's popular, like that'll get people in and that, but actually on the grounds, they don't know what that means. And I think that's just a testament to you all at the park. Like you have that vision. You work r obviously work really, really hard to execute it, and clearly you hire people and help bring in people that are gonna like.

fit that vision and make it work because without you all doing it, then it doesn't get executed and then you're just an imposter that have open golf on the scorecard but doesn't actually have it on the grounds. I we've done a lot of certainly a lot of I mean I love being there once I love the park. Being now on this interview I have goosebumps about twelve different times in terms of what you're doing, the things you're saying.

But I to put you on the spot because you you had the beautiful quote earlier, you know, traditions are something 40 years from now someone will look back on it. Then you can say we have a tradition. Well, you're clearly not someone that sleeps or rests with where you're at. So when you look at the park right now and you say, okay, we do a lot of great things, is there one thing you're hoping you do better the next couple years that you're gonna you know you want to target with the park and really work on if that's with the staff, with something going on property?

Is there something right now you're focused on that keeps you, you know, at midnight staring at the ceiling like, Hey, we need to do this better?

Brian Conley (1:17:59)
Yeah, I think there's two things. neither of which because I don't think we're successful in either, but just wondering it's like kinda like y I think I was once taught it's easier to beat a lead horse than it is a a trailing horse in a race. you know, I I mentioned culture. I was like we're th not by accident, but

maybe a little bit by I don't know the the culture here is different. It's different than anything I've been a part of. there's over two hundred people here on our team, two hundred and thirty in season when all the teachers are here with the program. Seeing just how far we can push it. I mean it's great now. By no means you guys have experienced it. But really seeing like, man, can a little golf course I say little can a singular golf course

really rival the places that you think of when you think of work culture, right? The the Disney Worlds, the Chick-fil-As, the things like that. can can we do that? Can we really, really push that? And I think they I think we can. I think we have the right people and team in place top to bottom. Our our foundation, our board, they're they're they challenge us to think this way, which is unique. they don't challenge us to in ways you might think a a a

foundation or others would. the other one is one that is just getting the word out about the path and what we're doing that's really not even related to the golf course. It it's a it's happening at the golf course. I mentioned if you go to our website and you check out the path and you look at the video that we just produced telling you what the path is, if you look at our impact reports, if you look at the work that's now actually showing results in the local schools receiving for the first time ever in

some cases grades of A or B for an entire school. at a time where schools you're seeing schools go backwards, these schools are going forwards. and they're doing it from the bottom up, not the top down, which means the kids that we are attracting and that we are working with are the kids who are growing and gaining traction. They're the path that we are changing and they're the ones, they're the school, they're the students that are changing those schools. And y

That's a message that you know I think we do a really, really good job telling, but unfortunately not everybody wants to hear it. So if there's a way we can really get people to kind of like take note of it and then find them on that personal level that's like, wow, this is possible. You know, we're not asking you to come out and pay $400 to play around of golf because 50 of it's gonna go to the path. That's not the case. It's you know, we're we're profitable and then we can make the path successful.

But we also have a mechanism in place to make the path successful so the golf course can operate on its own completely separately from that. so it's it's not going through the grocery store and rounding up pennies on transactions. That's not what we're here to do. it's just truly to understand that we're creating an environment and a vehicle that just so happens to be a world-class golf course that is really truly impacting and changing lives. So yeah, if if people know us not because of the golf course.

in ten years but actually know us because of the path. Wow. Mission accomplished.

Matt Considine (1:20:49)
That's well said. And we're gonna link to the that specific link for the path and what you guys are doing there, Brian, because you know, as a golfer, Professor, you said it, I I get goosebumps thinking about this this environment that that I want to be a part of, that I want other golfers to be a part of. But when I as a as a parent, when I see what you guys are doing with these kids and I I did watch that the main video there on the on the webpage, which we'll include in the show notes.

I I got chills as well just 'cause I'm like, man, gosh, we're g could could my community use something like this? Golf aside, could we use something like that? Heck yeah. so so bravo to all you guys, man. And and the fact that th that can't be understated too, the the sustainability factor that it's not, hey, we're we' we we charge X amount 'cause it goes to the that that's a hard thing to keep going. I've seen it fail time and time again. Yeah, even some stuff I've tried. Making it

its own focus, its own peace. That that that is d really admirable and I see I see why it's working. So this has been awesome, Brian.

And w we'll let you go. I know I could keep going. I have a bunch more I didn't get to, but professor, you got anything else for our man here?

The Professor (1:21:58)
No, but we're gonna definitely have Brian back on in the future. Once we gotta get you did we gotta

Brian Conley (1:22:01)
Yeah, that too.

The Professor (1:22:02)
get you down there to play and check out the place.

Matt Considine (1:22:05)
Well I

was gonna say I think after this there's there there's very little chance it's better than forty five percent, Professor, that I'm getting to the park within the next next winter won't will pass. Well I I I gotta get down there because it's just too much too much stuff that I really, you know, have modeled my own life around that I just wanna be a part of places like this. So Brian, thanks for everything you're doing for it.

Brian Conley (1:22:27)
Yep, come down here and we'll make sure the we'll get you a picture with the with the mascot in season. So

Matt Considine (1:22:33)
I I'll try

to break the professor's merchandise record he he set last time he he visited with you guys. 'Cause that logo is fire. Is there a story behind the logo? Maybe I got one more question. Is there anything behind it?

Brian Conley (1:22:44)
I I

yeah, we were in I wanna call it jokingly, logo purgatory as we call it, even before we opened. That the parrot didn't exist when we opened day one.

But kudos to everybody involved from the foundation to even the team myself that you know we realized that we needed something special and we weren't we weren't there yet. So I had input from several of the voices, so to speak, as to what it needed to have, and had a little bit to do actually with sketching this myself, just putting everybody's ideas together in an in an in in a draft that then went to a company to kind of actually kind of formalize it anyway. But yeah, it it

It was by accident, so to speak, but it was definitely not without a lot of trouble getting to. and then it just it took off, like you guys have seen. I mean, we're three years, we're four years old almost. and the you see this thing. I just saw it on the World Series of Poker. A friend of mine just sent me a picture of it. We see parrots everywhere, they're they're all over the place. We we hear about it from airports from place to place, and then the sales back it up. I mean, how many places

The Professor (1:23:39)
yeah.

Brian Conley (1:23:40)
renovate their golf shop after two years after opening to expand?

it just to keep up with sales. so yeah, the logo, look, hey, don't apologize to anybody if you come in here and you buy something. because everyone else has has and and it's it's still growing.

Matt Considine (1:23:54)
Well,

and it definitely challenged the theory of of many of the logo bingo friends of mine, which is if you can't have it, it has value. So it's it's that much more special. I I I think when

Brian Conley (1:24:06)
I hear ya.

Matt Considine (1:24:06)
you're supporting something that you care about and you really it always reminds you of just a special experience and and what it what it really represents. I I'll take that every day against, you know, the the very few little logos you see out there. But

Brian Conley (1:24:19)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (1:24:20)
Well thank Brian, thank you for being with us again, man. This has been really illuminating,

Brian Conley (1:24:23)
Appreciate you guys. Been a lot of fun.

Matt Considine (1:24:25)
really fun. looking forward to visiting the park. And if if for our listeners, thank you guys. Thanks for being a part of the show. if you're interested in everything that we talked about here, I will put contact information for the park and and the links in the show notes, as I mentioned. if you're not a subscriber of our show and you found us, please subscribe. Join the professor and I. We do these chats weekly, bi weekly. If you like this particular one,

I think you're really gonna like what we got coming up with the professor and I've been been in the lab cooking, the test lab as as our our guest said today. remember to like, rate, review the show. That always goes the way to help us and making this this mission for both the Bag Drop NewClub, making golf more meaningful for all of us.

Professor, I'll catch you on the next one.