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CJ & The Duke continue illuminating different ServiceNow career paths with the Implementation Specialist. What is it? How do you prepare? How do you know you've arrived?
Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
[00:00:00] Duke: right, CJ, what are we talking about?
[00:00:02] CJ: all right, duke, , today we're gonna talk about the role of the implementer, , specifically in the ServiceNow ecosystem, right? What does it look like? What do you do?
[00:00:10] Duke: Cory and I just reviewed some of our materials the other day and realized that, Hey, we've done an episode on architects. We've done an episode on admins and we've done an episode on BAS. And especially with that BA episode, at least for me, I was strongly advocating that you know, if you are a BA you should look strongly into being an implementer or an admin.
So here we are on the implementer episode.
[00:00:32] CJ: Absolutely. And I'll tell you this one's one of the episodes that I've had the most fun with. Just kind of talking back and forth with you about How we're gonna do it, how we're gonna frame it, what is even the difference offline? Right. So hopefully, you know, when we put this thing down on wax, , a lot of that value will come through and hopefully folks will, get a lot of value out of it.
Like I did.
[00:00:51] Duke: Let's start off maybe by what, what we say when we are saying implementer. And so at least from my perspective, it is somebody who has a process expertise. Well, two things, a process expertise and the understanding of how the tool does the process. Right? So you can have a PM that can go into a PMO and talk to the PMO about PM stuff.
[00:01:17] CJ: For each
[00:01:19] Duke: But doesn't mean anything in terms of a service now deployment, until you could say, well, here's also how we plan our costs for the year plan, our resources for the year. actualized costs, all this stuff. Like all of these plays are in a playbook for a process. And it's like, how do I do each of these things?
and so when we say implementer, it's like, you can roughly equivalent to the, CIS certs. but more basically more broadly. We're talking about somebody who can take a process, talk to those process people and deliver them a solution on service. Now that exists on service now
[00:01:56] CJ: yes. And talk to them in their language. Right? Like I wanna be very specific about. Right, because you want to, you have to be able to speak the language , of the process people that you're interfacing with. Right. And not make them speak your language. I think that's one of the key, uh, skill differentiators for a good implementer.
[00:02:15] Duke: Preach less than Nu Mero. UNO. If you wanna look at the CIS, you must speak the language. it's hard. It's very hard to learn how the tool works without the context of the language. These people speak. And not just the words they say, but the things that keep 'em up at.
[00:02:31] CJ: Yeah. If you think about it, let's take , the most rudimentary entry of these, right? Like I T S. And you think about, going in as an ITSM implementer, you need to actually know what it does. You need to know what an incident is and all facets of how an incident moves through the process, right?
Like why does the service desk use an incident? why does the business require an incident be generated? Why is management? What is management concerned with around an incident? that brings you to things like metrics and key performance indicators and reporting, all of that stuff starts to get teased out as you really start to, dive into like why incident, Like, and so you have to know how to communicate with the folks who are doing these tasks and talking in this language, but might not necessarily be used this product. Because you gotta take that stuff and then move it to the product. So you gotta be able to do that.
[00:03:22] Duke: man. I almost think that's so strong that it's, it deserves its own point. Like it's one thing. It's one thing to, understand how incident works, right?
[00:03:32] CJ: Right,
[00:03:33] Duke: Like you can go through the mechanics, this is how it works, but to understand the outcome, like what, and why are we doing this? you know, the outcomes that can be achieved if you do it right.
[00:03:48] CJ: Absolutely.
[00:03:49] Duke: Like, so if, if number one is you have to know the language. Number two is you have to know the outcomes, like what literally keeps these people up at night. What makes 'em sweat? What is gonna make you look like a hero if you deliver to them and I'll guarantee you, it's not just like, uh, set up this category tree the way we used to do it.
[00:04:07] CJ: Yeah, right. well, and let's, let's take the category tree dude. Cause I know that's your favorite thing in the world, right? Um but let's, take the category tree and, and when, and when your client comes to you and say, okay, so we got these category subcategories, etcetera, right. That we need to put in this new tool, you need to know how to talk to them and say, okay, well, have you considered it? The CMD. You know, and, if you don't know, like the purpose of category and subcategory, which is essentially just to, basically add, reporting points around an incident and do categorization, right.
You know, you don't know that. Service now actually has a better method of doing that called the CMDB, which allows you to do object oriented categorization, which is much better than flat file oriented categorization. I'm going real, too deep. I'm gonna, I'm gonna back out here. My point is right, is that because I know this right, and I speak this language.
I can talk to them about the value, the outcome, right. That they're trying to get out of this and reframe it and redirect them to best practice on the, platform. That's what implementers.
[00:05:08] Duke: Yeah. And I would say that the difference between a pre implementer or a non implementer and an implementer is if you told each of them, you have to build a scope of work for this job.
[00:05:19] CJ: right?
[00:05:20] Duke: pre slash non implementer, is gonna say something like due reporting in the scope,
[00:05:24] CJ: Yep.
[00:05:25] Duke: right. Versus an implementer will have maybe even an extra workshop before the sale is done.
what are the outcomes we are pushing towards here? And therefore we know what reports we're going to make at the end of it or by the end of it. Right?
[00:05:38] CJ: What do you want the reports to tell you? Right?
[00:05:40] Duke: Yeah.
[00:05:41] CJ: What are they driving? If this is a report, that's just numbers on a page that you're just sending to a mailbox somewhere. So somebody can check a box. That's one thing. Okay. I get it. But if you're actually doing the stuff from the perspective of what I T SM is supposed to deliver, right?
Like that report is supposed to do something supposed to tell you something about what you're doing so that you can make some sort of decision. Right. And then it goes back into the process to repeat again. Right. So you gotta know that, right. You can't just say, do do reporting right now.
Here is your five incident reports and thank. and duke. I know you've got a lot of . I know you've got a, like, a lot of perspective on, on reporting and how that kind of drives a lot of, processes or the absence of it drives a lot of processes.
[00:06:24] Duke: well, I appreciate that Corey okay. So we've got two of the three pillars here. ? You have to speak the language and you must know the desired outcome for the process, but then the last one, and I can't say this enough is like, you literally, you have to know how the tool actually works.
[00:06:40] CJ: Ooh, almost hard.
[00:06:44] Duke: Well, I mean, okay. So there was a bunch of people last year that, came to me asking me advice about different niches that they're trying to get into in the ServiceNow world. Right? One of them was I, Tom, and it was shocking to me how few understood that I, Tom was like very deep tech. So I have to imagine someone gave them a menu.
Here's things that you can't specialize in, but they were not given. Here's how the tool actually works,
[00:07:11] CJ: Yeah. They've given, yeah. Given acronyms. But without, yeah, without the rest of it.
[00:07:15] Duke: Yeah. Like it, operations management sounds like it could be some kind of like, you know, midtier managing people moving position, right.
[00:07:22] CJ: Absolutely.
[00:07:22] Duke: But then when you find out here's how ITOM works in service now, like mid servers and network protocols and security and authentication and
[00:07:31] CJ: An extensive extensive it knowledge
[00:07:33] Duke: that's right. Like to the point where Robert fedoras, like, nah, not my thing, not my game. let me, let me give you my friend Corey's number. Right. Um,
[00:07:44] CJ: yeah, I love it. O but yeah.
[00:07:47] Duke: But, you know what I mean? Right. Like you have to know how the tool actually works. And so I think maybe I'll take this moment too, to encourage those who keep asking about how do I pass this CIS, write a playbook for the process user.
Who's going to use this outta the box, write the playbook right in ITBM that would be like, how do I determine what becomes a project and what becomes other work? How do I determine if I'm gonna do this thing at all? And when I'm gonna do it, how do I figure out the cost schedule, scope, resources, risks, issues, before it even becomes a project when it does become a project?
How do I plan out a work breakdown structure? How do I plan my costs? How do I plan my resources? How do I control risks, issues, decisions, actions, and changes, like write the playbook. And then once you've written the playbook. Make sure that you can demonstrate each of those things. And once you're at that point, just like go write the exam cuz you could probably ACE it
[00:08:41] CJ: duke just from that right there. I could tell you've done quite a few ITBM implementations. Right.
[00:08:46] Duke: Yeah.
[00:08:48] CJ: but let me use that To, just reinforce the things that we've just said. Like you obviously speak the language, you can tell just from what you were just saying, that you can talk to the PMO about PM things, right. you know, the desired outcomes, you just talk through quite a few of them. Right? So that means when you're talking to the PMO about PM things, you can help them prioritize the things that they want to build. And you know how the tool works because you just delivered, your speech on how to write the.
.
[00:09:17] CJ: That whole little speech you just gave. Right. Which I think was so full of value, Just is illustrative of what an, a good implementer needs to know in order to be a good implementer.
[00:09:28] Duke: Yeah, And so there you are folks, if you are out there and you're looking at niches in service, now start at the very beginning. If you're remotely interested in HR, if you're remotely interested in GRC, SecOps, whatever, a find people who speak that language. B figure out what keeps 'em up at night and C as you study the tool, start writing out the playbook.
This is how it is used from front to back.
[00:09:53] CJ: you, you just said something that was really cool right there. Like find people that speak the language. Right. I don't know that a lot of people even think , in those terms when dealing with service now, I think they approach it more from an it perspective and finding people who speak the language is typically not something an it folks do.
you don't go out and sit down with HR and say, Hey, can you teach me about HR so that I can be a better it person for you? Like, I mean that, in my experience that hasn't been something I've seen. What about you, duke?
[00:10:20] Duke: I've always called myself the least technical person in it. Right. And I've used that to my advantage that, and all the Dungeons and dragons I played in high school to just like role play what it might be.
[00:10:32] CJ: D 20 baby.
[00:10:34] Duke: Just role play for a second. what it would be like to be that person in their job, like what motivates them, what keeps 'em up at night?
And so it's a thing of like, I don't consider myself it. I just consider myself a person who solves problems.
[00:10:46] CJ: Yeah.
[00:10:46] Duke: Right with these tools. And so when I come into a place where I don't know, I don't know their world, the first thing I do is just let's get neck deep in your world. Listen actively. Right. But in my mind, I'm constructing a character and I'm trying to live it. How awful is it that I have to deal with that? What am I really worried about? And then if I can, this is getting like way out to the edge here. Right. Then if I can, I'm trying to imagine what the person who's telling me this, what their blind spot might be. So you might have a PMO. Who's all about oh, we're so excited. We really wanna start tracking costs in service now. And I'm like, yeah. What, what about tracking risks too?
[00:11:26] CJ: Yeah,
[00:11:27] Duke: The reason a risk is a risk is cuz it's a potential cost. So why track this thing as we think it's gonna cost this much, if you also know, but it also might cost this much if
[00:11:39] CJ: right.
[00:11:39] Duke: So I like to just imagine, imagine in advance, how I can solve the problem before the problem, if that makes any sense.
[00:11:47] CJ: No. I, I love that. And I love the fact that I love having that conversation with the folks who actually do the work too, because they can then expose the parts of the system that you don't necessarily know, or that anyone knows. Right? I'm gonna use shadow it here, but it's, I'm using it in a different way.
Right. There's and to me, it's like the parts of the process that aren't immediately. and so there's always going to be that's stuff that's outside of the lines that coloring outside the lines that somebody somewhere is doing. And not reporting back that they're doing it, but they have to, to move everything forward.
Right. You can't get there without talking to folks.
[00:12:18] Duke: No doubt. Yeah. So we've talked a little bit about speak the language and know the outcomes. We've talked a little bit about how you might go about doing that, but how do you go about figuring out how the tool actually works?
[00:12:29] CJ: Ooh. that's a good one. Right? So, one of the, main things I do is get a PDI. Right. that's probably like my first stop on, on this is to is, develop without servicenow.com and I'm gonna spin up a PDI and I'm gonna jump in there. I'm gonna get neck deep in this stuff.
Right. Like I wanna, I wanna sink a swim because I basically, I just wanna be able to go in there and play around without caring if I blow it up or not. Right. if the instance stops working fine, I'll refresh and we'll do it. So that's probably the first place I start.
What about you duke?
[00:12:59] Duke: The first place I would start is like, go to now learning, go to docs, read as much as I can about how it can work, right.
[00:13:06] CJ: See, that was my number two.
[00:13:07] Duke: yeah. Oh really? no, I, I would take it in that order. Right's like, especially with, I know there's simpler.
Ah, gosh. How do I wanna describe this? ITBM is pretty complicated. Like there's just tons of record types that are involved and lots of dependency and cascading consequences, right? Like if you enter a time card and you are associated to a resource plan, by just putting in a time card, you may have been populating actualized costs on both a cost plan and a resource. And you would never have known that it did that just by entering a timecard. So I want to know what's the doctrine. So go to now learning, go through the course, if it's available, read docs as much as you can, and then tear that hood open and start like getting your hands in the gears.
[00:13:56] CJ: All right.
[00:13:57] Duke: So your number, your number one is my number two, but we both agree that that element is of utmost importance.
[00:14:05] CJ: Yeah. Whether you do it, jump into the instance first and then hit docs and, and now learning second or docs, and now learning first and jump into the instant second, right? Like those two things are paramount. those form, the baseline of getting to know how the tool works and you can't know and understand how the tool works without doing those two things.
Right. You can't.
[00:14:23] Duke: And understand this too. There is like there. Oh man. I, I completely understand the urge to find this right, but the holy grail of the service now world is some document that tells me the path that gets me to the point where I know this quote, unquote.
[00:14:40] CJ: Right.
[00:14:41] Duke: wants the roadmap. How do I learn ITP on the road?
You can't, it's the same thing. How do I learn? How do I learn to be an electrician, the roadmap? How do I learn how to be a plumber? The roadmap it's like, there is only so much doctrine that you can read about, but true capability only comes from time in the trenches. a great plumber is somebody who has seen the 100 different ways.
A like you can get a drain. Or, or knows that a plumber's wrench is way better, 99 times out of, a hundred than a regular wrench, cuz he's been there done that. She's been there, done that. getting capable by doing this on the P don't worry about an optimized learning path. Just get in harm's way and see some real weird stuff.
And you do that enough times. All of a sudden you're an expert in it.
[00:15:28] CJ: Yeah. I mean, that's what it is. Right? Expertise is just accumulated experience.
[00:15:32] Duke: Boom there, like, see, they could have just listened to you for five words. Instead, they had to listen to me rant for
[00:15:40] CJ: I got some nuggets. I spit out occasionally, man, you know? Well, it all depends on how much hip hop I would listen to before we record it
[00:15:49] Duke: like the
[00:15:49] CJ: flow.
[00:15:50] Duke: of all my rants.
[00:15:54] CJ: No, but I mean, but that's absolutely . Perfect. And I, the one thing I'll add to that too, is that use cases are everywhere, right? Like, so we've talked about this in previous episodes about how you can look and you can find like outside the box processes when you wanna build. But let me tell you about use cases that you can find that relate directly to processes, right?
Community. If you go to community and, and there's this really nice structure in community where things are delineated by category, right? You jump into a, you know, into one of those, those groups, those forums, right. People are complaining all the times about stuff they can't do. And if you got your own instance, you can go in there and start trying to do those things, you might not know what's an interesting problem to solve at ITBM. Right. But somebody's got an interesting problem in ITBM that they posted about on C. All of a sudden, now you can try to reverse engineer how they got to that point,
[00:16:41] Duke: Yeah. And it's a guaranteed, it's a guaranteed real, real problem too, because they're not coming to community to post it unless they are either trying to implement it themselves or they, or they're a partner trying to implement it. You're just like, Hey, I need help understanding how you do this.
Okay. So it's just like, even if you don't know the answer, write the thing that's happening into your playbook.
[00:17:01] CJ: Absolutely. and then go build it right to
[00:17:03] Duke: Yeah. Or figure it out, go figure it out. Right. Figure out how it works. Cause it's not the solution's not always build. Right. It's just, no, you just understand that it works this way.
[00:17:12] CJ: and here's one, here's one last kind of dimension to that as well, because it might not just be a technical problem they're posting about, it might be a process problem. You might not understand the process, but now you have something that you can take to someone who does understand this particular process and talk to them about it.
Right. And so now you're not teach me ITBM and sitting, you know, in the garden as they kind of pontificate about it, you're saying, teach me how work breakdowns work in this way and why you would use it and blah, blah, blah. Right. And this is a lot more targeted. This could be a lot more useful to them and to you, right.
[00:17:46] Duke: preach.
[00:17:53] CJ: But I mean, it, it is, it is all out there, right? Like, and I get it right. There's so much out there that it's hard to find the path. Sometimes this is the path, we're, we're laying down the path
[00:18:03] Duke: Or it's like, or maybe there isn't one, it's just, where's the path when you, they drop you in the middle of the Amazon with a machete. And it's just like, oh, where's the path that I go to. Well, I mean, you could look for one, but you can also just start hacking it's like, just grab that machete. Just go forge your own path, like hitting the smaller ones, gonna move faster. Kind of stretching this metaphor a little bit, but
[00:18:22] CJ: No, no, no dude, because here here's my thing. Right? Because I can guarantee them, right. If they get dropped in the middle of the Amazon and they start hacking and they're looking for something eventually, if they hack enough, they're gonna run into a CJ in the duke episode, that's gonna teach them how to do it.
[00:18:35] Duke: There's getting there's enough of them now. Like
[00:18:40] CJ: We're the side post by the road and by the abandoned road or the overgrown road, right? Like in the middle of the Amazon that nobody's seen in a hundred years, you're gonna go, you're gonna come upon a sign. That's gonna say go that way. That's us.
[00:18:53] Duke: Yeah. this is kind, kind of like a recurring theme with us though, is to just trust Trust that when you're putting in the work putting your hands in the gears. Oh man. Too many metaphors. But when you're actually working with a tool, you are going to get better than it.
And there are, I've seen too many times people who are like paralyzed with a fear, like I have an unoptimized learning path. So what
[00:19:16] CJ: Yeah.
[00:19:16] Duke: you can get a learning path. You can have a bad learning path. But you're gonna find out faster and react better when you're actually taking steps. So it's not the optimized learning path.
It's just learn. that.
[00:19:32] CJ: Yeah, no, no, no doubt duke. I think that's important, but I, you know, what else I think is important, right? Is the soft skills that go along with being a good implementer.
[00:19:41] Duke: man, you beat me to it.
[00:19:46] CJ: Right. Cause we, we know right. What the prerequisites are. Right. And we know that one of them is that we need to learn the process. And so we give you some tips there and you need to learn how service now works around the process and works in general. Right. So we talked a little bit about that, but there's also, that's, that's the platform, right?
That's the platform that you're gonna build upon, your soft skills are what gonna take you to the next. In terms of being able to connect with the folks that you're implementing, for So that you can properly convey that value. Right. And so my first one, right. Is,
<<>>
[00:00:00] Duke: Massive technical difficulties there. So for you, it's only been a couple seconds, but for us it's been 15 extraordinarily stressful
[00:00:08] CJ: Oh man. Thought we lost this whole episode. Dear was like,
[00:00:13] Duke: it on such a roll off could have lost all that. Uh,
[00:00:18] CJ: so.
[00:00:20] Duke: Ugh, but here we are. everything's okay.
[00:00:23] CJ: Everything's good. We're backing we're back in your ear and, uh, we're gonna continue,
[00:00:27] Duke: you made the intro for soft skills and, So the first soft skill I think the implementer has to have is to be able to do workshop leadership, not participation. You should have the confidence in deploying these processes on tools such as you can walk in And lead it. And again, I'll give you the example from SPM ITBM I go in and I basically do a really long product demo. And I showcase here's how we do each of these processes. How do you do those today? Does this look better? Does it look worse? Write down where they feel stressful right down where the thing you could get big wins and it sets you up for the whole implementation. But if you can't do that, You're not fully there yet. You can be certified, but when you're fully there as an implementation expert, you should be able to do that.
[00:01:12] CJ: absolutely duke, you gotta be able to lead the workshop. You gotta be able to walk folks down that line , you gotta be able to walk them from. To finish through the process, you know, in terms of where they're messing up and value they want to get out of it and, and things like that.
Right. And if you can't go in that room and command the attention and get folks on board with you and get 'em, tuned in, then you need to work on that. I'm telling you, you know, this is just one of those skills that you have to have to be an implementer. It's not it's non-negotiable.
[00:01:38] Duke: Yeah. And it's not, that hard to get either. I would say, remember how we said earlier in the episode, it's like, if you concentrate on building a really sweet playbook, that kind of overlays the things that they do in a process with the way they do them in service now, You're like three quarters of the way there.
The only thing you lack is the confidence of doing it once or twice.
[00:01:58] CJ: Yeah. So duke, I'm gonna disagree with you a little bit on this one, right? Because I think that last court, I agree with you about three quarters of the way there. That last quarter is hard though. That last court is public speak. Right. and, and, and I think I read a survey somewhere that most of America has this fear of talking in front of people and, so that part of it, I think where a lot of the difficulty comes in and what I will say is that there are a ton of books out there.
There are a ton of YouTube videos, but what they all distill down to is that this is a muscle that you have to
[00:02:29] Duke: Bingo.
[00:02:30] CJ: Right. It's a skill. You gotta learn. You just, you gotta practice it in order to get there. It's just not something you're born with. A lot of people think, well, this person's just naturally gifted at talking to folks in a room it's you, you gotta work at it.
you do you the same way. You have to learn the ServiceNow platform. You have to learn public speaking as well.
[00:02:47] Duke: Right. So it's kind of like a two-pronged thing that you gotta solve there. Right? You gotta get your public speaking up, but you also have to have your, like, what are you gonna run a workshop on? You're gonna work it, run it off of the playbook that you understand about how the process works.
[00:03:03] CJ: Absolutely.
[00:03:04] Duke: All right. What other soft skills we got to take on here?
[00:03:06] CJ: Role playing duke, right. And you talked a lot about this in some of those prerequisites, in, in terms of like, you know, how to learn the process and things like that. But role playing the process and UN so you can get a better understanding of the process itself, right?
Nobody, if you're an, it, you probably don't know how HR works. You might think, you know how HR works into places where HR touches.
[00:03:27] Duke: Mm-hmm
[00:03:27] CJ: there's a million processes behind the veil that they're not sharing with you, but if you're trying to build them a system of record, then you actually need to know what they're doing behind the veil.
There's no way to know that actually role playing with them in terms of like, what are you doing here? Let me sit in your shoes, let me understand what's going on. Let me, let me feel your pain. And so I can internalize that and mesh it with my knowledge so that then we can spit out some.
[00:03:53] Duke: man. I there's a trick I use. That helps me navigate those situations where there's a big deviation, right. And I think too many people just will tell a customer, oh, it's not good practice, do it this way. but they forget the fact that the customer's already in homeostasis, right?
If you left 'em alone for a million years, they'd still be doing that, that. You can't, you can't just say it's bad practice. Do something else. What energy is gonna keep them the something else. So a role playing tactic is to just in your mind, play it out, assume they are right.
[00:04:27] CJ: Yeah.
[00:04:27] Duke: it out in your mind.
You are them. You're doing it this way. Why might that be like, what is it that got them to the point where this was the only option available to them and from that exactly. And that will. build up a sympathy at least to where they are coming from. And it shows when you tell them assuming you are right now, now you have the world, you, you have at least a shared worldview to, to base off of.
Like, I understand it's hard here, here, and here because you have this reality around you. But if we tweak these variables, you're gonna get these gains.
[00:05:02] CJ: What you're describing, right. Is building the authority to say. In these situations you're as a consultant, one of your primary jobs is to be able to say no to your. because that's why they hired you. They don't know where no. And where yes. They don't know the lines that delineate the borders of no, and yes.
they want everything, they don't know what they shouldn't want, blah, blah, blah. Right. And, and you, as the expert, as the consultant have to come in and be able to tell them no with authority. And when I say no with authority, what I mean is just what you just said, duke, like that empathy. Right.
And that understanding of what their, how their current process is working and what they're doing and why they're doing it. So then you can tell them no, Or you could just tell 'em flat out. No. And that, you know, either way, it gives you a shared understanding so that they under so that they accept your opinion on these things.
[00:05:50] Duke: I want to, Vibe off that for one second, because it's also the point at which you can be sure that you need to build something custom.
[00:05:58] CJ: Yeah.
[00:05:59] Duke: Sometimes the answer is not no, like I told this story a bunch of times , on the channel is I had an ITPM client pre Paris.
So there was no such thing as time, card days, there was only timecard weeks and they're using timecards to reconcile between. the third party labor provider's billing and what they saw come in via time cards. And what are you supposed to say? No, you can't reconcile your labor costs be.
And, and, and those, those practice
[00:06:32] CJ: Right. Like, yeah.
[00:06:34] Duke: they'll best practice a boot so far up your butt. You're gonna taste shoe leather.
[00:06:38] CJ: Yeah, man. Right? Like you, you got it, right. Like, absolutely like abso freaking, right? Like they don't care about best practice when it gets in the way of doing the thing that their company needs to do or the line of business needs to do. Right. Like that value needs to get created. Right. And they don't care that, you know, some manual somewhere says you can do it right.
Or that the tool isn't necessarily doing it
[00:07:02] Duke: Cause the, the tool can't like. The tool does not start and end at best practice. It does not. It can do things on purpose far beyond best practice. It is missing stuff of terrible gravitas and import That is best practice you, you know, so you can't. You know what I mean? Like, I, I, I say this in full love of service now, but it is not the perfect solution across the board all the time everywhere.
It's the reason why we can build on it.
[00:07:38] CJ: I don't think ServiceNow is trying to build every use case out, right. Like out of the box, right? Like they're, they're trying to give you a pretty good core 80% and leave the, the 20%, right? Like to folks like us, you know, to build that thing that needs to happen for that small set of, customers who.
Right, but it wouldn't make sense to, to include it for everybody.