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We are Alyssa and Bri, two sisters who believe God wants more for women than we've been taught. Join us as we dive into the intersection of faith and feminism, learning together as we go.
Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Alyssa.
Speaker 2:And my name is Bri. We're 2 sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted,
Speaker 1:respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy. No. You are not playing Mario right at this exact moment.
Speaker 2:You're just chilling out with your sisters, talking about stuff. Hello. How are you?
Speaker 1:I feel like sometimes when we just start, I feel like we should introduce ourselves because we sound so similar that, perhaps, people assume we're 1 big amorphous blob.
Speaker 2:I assume that if you're tuning in, you're looking just to hang out with your sisters. Maybe you don't have sisters, and this is your experience with sisters. And sisters don't introduce you themselves. Oh, got it. Got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. As far as you know, I'm Marj. Hello, Marj. How are you today? Well, I've been better.
Speaker 2:You can be Patrice.
Speaker 1:I'm Alastair. We've established this, and your name is Brian. That's if we're men.
Speaker 2:Oh. We're feeling manly. Hey. Did you know that during your period is when you're no. This could be dead wrong.
Speaker 1:Is this a TikTok?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, boy. During your period, your estrogen goes down and your testosterone goes up.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna need some scientific backing here. You could absolutely be correct, but I need more than TikTok.
Speaker 2:Listen. That's what I heard.
Speaker 1:Now is that moment for you?
Speaker 2:Yep. It is. In fact, I'm feeling a bit mannish.
Speaker 1:My name's Brian. Today this morning, Bria and I went to a craft show.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because we are I don't know. We have no chill. We never buy anything.
Speaker 2:We did craft shows.
Speaker 1:We did, but we only bought one thing. Well, you bought 2 things.
Speaker 2:I bought 2 things.
Speaker 1:But I only bought one thing, and it was a mystery bag with a sweater in it. And okay. My sweater says no. My I wanna point out that this is not inaccurate. It says, it's a mess.
Speaker 1:The house, the car, the kids, my hair, my shirt, my life. And I mean, nothing has perhaps ever described me more. And then, Brie bought a shirt.
Speaker 2:I bought 2 shirts. 1 was a mystery and it just perfectly explains my life. It was like number 1 tailgater.
Speaker 1:And if you've been listening for a while, you know how much Bre loves sports.
Speaker 2:Loves sports. Love all the golds and the tight ends. And then the other one was not a mystery. I bought it on purpose, and it has a big picture of a possum on it. And it says, first of all, I'm a delight.
Speaker 1:And then we want a cricket on the back
Speaker 2:and say, and everyone says so.
Speaker 1:Everybody says so. She hears that on the daily, I
Speaker 2:think, probably. People look at me and say,
Speaker 1:delightful. Actually, most of the time, people look at us and say, that's our crazy fill in the blank. Cousin, niece Yeah. Friend, acquaintance that we threw across the room.
Speaker 2:You know? Whatever. Please don't throw me. Yeah. You gotta do what you gotta do, Bree.
Speaker 1:Today, again, though, we are on location. We are in our childhood bedroom.
Speaker 2:We should take a picture. Part 2. Part 2. We're in a pink room.
Speaker 1:We're doing this because we're trying to record a little bit ahead because of the holidays and all the craziness.
Speaker 2:And we suck lately. We've we've been
Speaker 1:very ever since I've had the plague, we've just been very behind. So we're trying to record a little bit ahead, and we always do Sunday dinners at our mom's house. So that's where we are today because it is in fact Sunday for us.
Speaker 2:And if you didn't know, we have to say mom. I said our mom. I know. I'm just saying. We're sisters.
Speaker 2:We are sisters
Speaker 1:in case we haven't established that thus far. So speaking of the holidays and being sisters, today we're gonna talk about going into the holidays and family conflict,
Speaker 2:Which everybody has it. Especially, you don't.
Speaker 1:You do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Especially this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think, you know, everybody has family conflict anyway, but then when it comes down to, particularly, for most people, Thanksgiving and Christmas Mhmm. And you get family that you may not see all the time altogether in one room
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Kind of in a confined space. Yeah. I mean, you could be the perfect family and still have conflict at that point, but most of us are not perfect family.
Speaker 2:Add on all the stress and pressure from the holidays just in general. Right.
Speaker 1:And for us, the holidays is oh, I love the holidays. Our family is really close. And, frankly, while I did say that you may not see these people whatever. I see these people absolutely all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. In fact, some
Speaker 1:of them are in the living room right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or possibly listening at the door.
Speaker 1:Possibly listening at the door. No way to know.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I had phones around.
Speaker 1:But it's just even though I love the holidays, it's definitely a little bit it can be a little stressful.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And you can be worried about the topics of conversation that are gonna come up Yeah. Or maybe that one person who's always made you feel uncomfortable for whatever reason
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or whatever it is. Maybe 14 people are asking you when you're gonna get married.
Speaker 1:You know?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Maybe that.
Speaker 1:And so we wanted to look at what does the Bible say because I we may not have made this clear 6 minutes in, but we are, in fact, a Christian feminist podcast.
Speaker 2:We do, in fact, love the Lord. We do. And so what does
Speaker 1:it look like from a biblical perspective to have family Mhmm. To deal with family, and sometimes even to step away from family?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And how do we handle that? Because from the way that we were raised
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Whether that was through family or in the church, it was definitely a turn the other cheek and never ever stop turning the other cheek and always stick around family no matter what they do.
Speaker 2:The family. The family. The family. Think like My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
Speaker 1:That is us. The family. I just told that to somebody. Who
Speaker 2:did I?
Speaker 1:Oh, my therapist.
Speaker 2:I was like
Speaker 1:she was we were talking about the holidays, and I was like, you have to understand. When you have you ever seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding? If you have, that's
Speaker 2:the Yeah. That's the family. And it's like I feel like our family is very unique in that we do have a very big family, but we're also very close We are. With every single member.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I know details about everybody's lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like cousins, aunts, uncles, like all of them.
Speaker 2:I would say that we're as close with our cousins as a lot of people are with their siblings. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm way closer to my siblings, which is disturbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We're frighteningly close. We share one brain. We today, we did. We wanted to go to the faraway Starbucks for drinks because they're better.
Speaker 2:You didn't even have to convince me because I was already thinking of it.
Speaker 1:Even say it out loud. I just looked at
Speaker 2:you. I
Speaker 1:know. I was we just it's just frightening, folks. But I think the church does push that a lot of it doesn't matter what family does to you. You stick by them no matter what. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And that is not always healthy. Nope. And I don't even think it's always biblical. I think it's a a church pushed issue, not necessarily a god pushed issue, if that makes sense. So I looked up some verses.
Speaker 2:I just looked up, what does
Speaker 1:the Bible say about family? Because I don't actually think the Bible says all that much about your genetic nuclear family.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You know?
Speaker 2:I feel like it more so focuses on the family of God. Yeah. Brothers and sisters in Christ.
Speaker 1:The phrase that we love. So I looked that up, and there's a bunch of bible verses that talk about it. And, I mean, this is not an exhaustive list. Don't get me wrong. But I wanna go through some of this says top Bible verses about family.
Speaker 1:So I wanna go through them and we'll just kinda talk through them. The first one is Exodus 20 12. And this is honor your father and your mother that your days may be long in the land that the lord your god has given you.
Speaker 2:I also would like to talk about what does honor mean.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like people think it's do whatever they say. Right. Listen to all of their advice. Right. Be who they want you to be.
Speaker 2:And I think specifically in other cultures too. Mhmm. It's like without question, just follow what your mom and dad have planned for you rather than what you wanna plan for your own life.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I looked up just the dictionary definition of honor, and there's 4 different ones. So there's high respect and great esteem to place someone in a position of honor. Mhmm. There's adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct.
Speaker 1:So, like, I should do this thing as a matter of honor. Okay. Or then in the verb form, it's regard with great respect or fulfill an obligation or keep an agreement. So, like, to honor your commitment to someone. None of those have anything to do with obedience, first of all.
Speaker 1:No. I think you can respect someone and still be
Speaker 2:able to say, like, I respect you, but I don't have to do everything you say. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And I think also for people that really struggle with their relationships with their parents, and the holidays really bring that up. Yeah. Even the idea of I respect you can be difficult.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I
Speaker 1:think it's important to recognize that while your biological parents might be your biological parents
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:If they didn't fulfill a parental role for you
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If they were not father and mother to you If they're not honorable. Right. Then I think it's okay to step away and say, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna keep my peace. Mhmm. I'm gonna protect my peace, and I don't need to necessarily respect or honor you because you didn't fulfill that role.
Speaker 1:You were not my father. You were not my mother, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And it again, I recognize that that's relatively controversial in the Christian church because you never turn away from your mother and father, but this verse does not say honor your biological mother and father. Mhmm. Who fulfilled that role for you? Because I can tell you that I know people very close to me that it wasn't their mother or father. It was their pastor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was their grandmother. Mhmm. It was whoever played a role, an aunt, an uncle, you know, maybe a friend's parents. Our heavenly father. God knows.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I'm not saying that you should spit on your parents or anything like your biological parents. Mhmm. But at the same time, my interpretation now this is, again, Alyssa's interpretation here. But Alyssa's interpretation would be the person who fulfilled a parental role for you.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Honor and respect that person. And, again, that doesn't mean obedience, like you said.
Speaker 2:Did they pour into your life Right. Positively, or did they, you know, not? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And if that wasn't the case, then I don't really think this verse applies. Mhmm. And so I wanna kind of, like, check that little box and say, okay. We've talked through this one. Maybe it doesn't mean what the church is throwing at you all the time.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Maybe if someone didn't fulfill a parental role for you, they don't get
Speaker 2:the the privilege to be involved in your life
Speaker 1:or the privilege of this verse. Mhmm. They don't get the all of the fun, great things that come with being a parent if they weren't your parent
Speaker 2:just because they pooped you out. I've had 2 kids. That's not how it works for you. What? See, I haven't had kids, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:But you watched it. They know. They know that. They've heard that story. Alright.
Speaker 1:So the next one again, these are, like, the it just says the top verses about family. So this is Proverbs 226, and it says, train up a child in the way he should go. Even when he is old, he will not depart from it. So this one's more about your kids. Boy kids?
Speaker 2:Well doesn't apply to me.
Speaker 1:I would actually be interested to see if the NIV because the NIV was written in such a way to take out a lot of the gendered words that didn't need to be gendered. So I'd be interested to see if that one changes. But I would say that one's a little bit less about, like, your extended family necessarily. But at at the same time, let's say you have adult children
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That are gonna be coming over for the holidays, and that's a strained relationship. What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Can you read that first again?
Speaker 1:Yep. Actually, let me real quick look that up in the NIV because I do kind of want
Speaker 2:I would, but I don't have my phone on me. I'd do it myself, but I don't have thumbs. It's a bargain. Do you think people remember that commercial? Hopefully.
Speaker 2:Otherwise, they think I'm crazy.
Speaker 1:They do think you're crazy. They know you're crazy. I know you're crazy. You know
Speaker 2:what else? Commercial was good. Hello, mother. Hello, father. Flea sticks mosquitoes.
Speaker 2:Really, mother.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah. So the NIV does take out the gendered language, which we love. So in the NIV, Proverbs 226 says, start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old, they will not turn from it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, yeah, again, if they're fulfilling that role, if they are truly being parents to you, then, yeah, by all means. Mhmm. Hang out with them at the holidays.
Speaker 1:But I think, also, if you're a parent with older kids that have a choice whether to come over
Speaker 2:or not.
Speaker 1:You know? And maybe you're looking at things because I know those can be strained relationships. That can be difficult with your adult. No. I I don't know that from personal experience.
Speaker 1:My children are 9 and 2.
Speaker 2:Mom says a lot of the time, it's that transition from being, like, a parent, you know, telling them what to do right from wrong, yada yada yada. But then there's a transition period Right. When your kids do become adults, and then you have to trust that you made the right decision or trained them the right way Mhmm. When they were kids. And now they're adults, and they get to make their own decisions and their own mistakes.
Speaker 2:And you get to be there, absolutely, but you don't get to tell them what to do. Right.
Speaker 1:Well, I think parents misinterpret that. Like, if I make my children go to church, their whole growing up experience, if I make sure that they don't get tattoos, if I make sure that they don't wear too much makeup, whatever, you know, fill in the blank, that they'll follow all of those rules.
Speaker 2:But I think there's such a difference. You have to teach kids. Now, I'm not a parent, so I'll take what I say with a grain of salt, but teach them also how to think for themselves. How to figure out Eventually, you're gonna have the opportunity to say whether or not you want a tattoo. Right.
Speaker 2:And what is that right decision for you? Like, teach them how to think for themselves. Yeah. Critical thinking.
Speaker 1:Right. Well and, also, I don't think that that verse is talking about every little minute decision that they're going to make in their lives. I think it's talking about the big picture. Right? Because if you look through the rest of the chapter I just looked up the rest of the chapter.
Speaker 1:And it it is very big picture. I wanna read I'll read the verses surrounding it. So if we start at that's verse 6. If we start at verse 4, it says, humility is the fear of the Lord. Its wages are riches and honor and life.
Speaker 1:In the paths of the wicked are snares and pitfalls, but those who would preserve their life stay far from it. Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old, they will not depart from it. The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is the slave to the lender. It's just like a list of of things. Now this would have been a song because it's Proverbs.
Speaker 1:But,
Speaker 2:could you sing it?
Speaker 1:No. Thank you. Rode. I think Proverbs was songs. I don't know, guys.
Speaker 1:I'm not a
Speaker 2:I don't think Proverbs
Speaker 1:was songs.
Speaker 2:No? No. I just think it's like a, you know A proverb? A proverb. There's no other way to ex explain that.
Speaker 2:But it's kind
Speaker 1:of a list of general things, and I think we have to look really big picture because parents so often will destroy their relationship with their adult children over the silliest, stupidest, meaningless things. Yeah. You voted differently than I do, and I'm going to rip you to shreds over it. Yep. Or you dyed your hair a color I don't like so you look hard.
Speaker 2:Stop. I feel so seen.
Speaker 1:Or that that was not our parents that I or you're wearing clothes I don't like, or you didn't get married when I thought you should, or you don't have kids and I think
Speaker 2:you should have kids. You're parenting different than I would parents.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yes. And parents will destroy their relationships with their kids and use this verse as a backing. Mhmm. I trained you up in the way you should go.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you need to come back to the exact path that I put you on. Mhmm. But the reality is the path that you hopefully put your kids on, that you want them to actually follow as Christian parents is love God, love others, love yourself. Right?
Speaker 1:Follow god. And all the little silly things around it, they don't matter.
Speaker 2:No. And things tend to fall into place Mhmm. If you follow that. Love god, love others, love yourself. Right.
Speaker 2:The decisions that you make are gonna follow that idea of love. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So I guess my instruction from this verse is, parents, don't destroy your relationships with your kids ever ever, period, end of sentence, but particularly over the holidays, over stupid stuff that won't matter when we get to heaven anyway.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Big picture. Think big picture.
Speaker 1:So the next verse is first Timothy 5:8, and this one's actually really interesting. So it says, but if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. I wanna look that up in the NIV as well. No. I'm gonna do it, and you can't stop me.
Speaker 1:I would also recommend, when you guys look up these verses, try and not look up just the verse because I'm on Bible Gateway right now, and it'll give me just the verse. If I look up 1st Timothy 5:8, it's only gonna give me 5:8. I would recommend looking up the chapter
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And reading through the whole chapter, or if you wanna read through even more. Read before, read after. Yes. So this is essentially a section talking about taking care of the people around you.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And I
Speaker 1:think that can be really difficult for people who have been in abusive situations, whether that is physically abusive, emotionally abusive, mentally abusive. I'm not gonna define what that means for
Speaker 2:you. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But anyone that's been in an abusive situation or, frankly, a situation where they don't feel seen, loved, or cared for, and now the Bible is saying you need to take care of your relatives. What does that look like when maybe you've gone no contact with someone, when maybe you have put that wall there for your own safety or own own peace? Mhmm. What does that look like to then take care of your relatives? I think that's a really difficult
Speaker 2:care of them. Marry them. I don't think that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I think that's really difficult to kind of deal with.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Well, I think we have to define what care for means. Mhmm. Does that mean giving them food? Does that mean talking to them?
Speaker 2:Or does it mean just saying, hey, wish you the best, but I can't be involved with you anymore. I don't wish you hate or malice. Mhmm. But I can't Because I care about myself as well, my own mental physical health, I can't be around you anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's important to take verses in context, not just with what's around them, but with the rest of the Bible. And the rest of the Bible absolutely talks about guarding your heart, about protecting Gird your loins. You.
Speaker 2:I mean, yes. But still, about protecting Mhmm. Who you
Speaker 1:are because you can't go out and I mean, I know this is like the oldest metaphor ever, but you can't fill someone else's cup if you're empty. Mhmm. Right? So if someone is making you feel empty to continue allowing them in your life simply so that you can care for them, whatever that looks like, you have to take that in context of everything else that the Bible says. We talk about we talk we?
Speaker 1:Do we? I don't know. The world
Speaker 2:Talk to
Speaker 1:you now.
Speaker 2:About the world? Shut up. Shut shut up. The world right now, hot button topic is talking about creating healthy boundaries. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And what does that look like for you as an individual, especially around the holidays?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And how do you maintain those boundaries?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I heard one time that a boundary is not something that you ask someone else to do. It's something that you do.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So rather than I think the example that this lady said was when she and her son would go into the elevator of their apartment building, the son would always press all the buttons Mhmm. Of all the floors. And so, instead of just saying, no, don't do that. Now, she's like, because you have done this, because you keep hitting these buttons, now I'm gonna stand in front of the the buttons. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Not give you an option to press the buttons. And so it was something that she had to do.
Speaker 1:That's a boundary. Yeah. Whereas control
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Would be saying, you can't do that. Mhmm. Not that in that situation, that would be an unreasonable thing to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But yeah. But it's hard to control others, especially family members.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, I've definitely had to experience this where I've put up walls and boundaries with people in my family, with people in my extended family because it didn't function in my life anymore. Those relationships didn't function. Mhmm. And so I had to put up very strict and some would even say extreme boundaries with people to keep myself and my family safe.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And people don't like boundaries. No. Particularly toxic people do not like or understand boundaries. They see it as an attack on them.
Speaker 2:People who don't respect you, right, do not respect your boundaries.
Speaker 1:If you are able to say, I am going to step away for my safety, my mental health, my family's safety, mental health, whatever. Again, I don't wanna give you reasons. Like, whatever your reasons are valid. But if you're able to say, I'm going to do this. Not, I'm gonna make you be the person I want you to be.
Speaker 1:Because I spent a lot of time trying that too. Right. I'm gonna make you be the person that I wanna be. I'm going to gentle parent you, which we'll talk about later. But I'm gonna gentle parent you into being who I want you to be.
Speaker 1:It doesn't always work. I mean, you want it to. You hope it does. And if you're working with a reasonable person, it might. But at some point, you might have to make those tough decisions for yourself.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And I think you have to read this verse as a whole. And, again, you can go in I'm not gonna read the huge sections of every one. You can definitely go back and read it. But it says, anyone who does not provide for their relatives and especially for their own household.
Speaker 1:So I think we're not talking necessarily about your great aunt's cousin here. You know? Like, all the people that you see at the holidays, I don't think God is asking you to financially support them. I think, particularly, here, we're talking about spouses. We're talking about children.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. You could definitely argue that we're talking about parents. But, again, we just talked about what is the definition of parents. Mhmm. And I don't think it necessarily has to be your biological parents.
Speaker 1:The family that you've created for yourself, take care of them. Mhmm. Because that shows who you are. Yeah. It shows your integrity.
Speaker 1:It shows your faith. It shows the world who you are. Mhmm. So whatever family you've created, take care of them as best you can.
Speaker 2:And I think for the people that you care about and that they care about you, be aware of what they need. Mhmm. If that person looks like they just need someone to talk to Yeah. Talk to them. If you have finances to help someone out and make their life less of a burden or whatever it is, help them if you can.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So the next one I wanna do is Colossians 3 20. And this is, an interesting one. Oh, buckle up. So it says, children, obey your parents and everything, for this pleases the lord. Says children, not adults.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 2:Mom, I'm done obeying you. Dad, I'm done obeying you. I'm getting that neck tattoo. Wow.
Speaker 1:No regrets. This one is in a section, actually, that we have we have talked about this section of Colossians before because 18/20 are some of the submission verses. So if you haven't heard those episodes after this, definitely go back and listen. We did a 3 part submission series early on. I'm not sure which episode numbers they were, but definitely go back and listen to those.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Spend some more time with us.
Speaker 1:But this the label here and remember that these section labels are added. They were not in the original text. So Mhmm. The section label here is instructions for Christian households. And it goes through wives, husbands, children, fathers, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1:Actually, talks about slaves as well. Some of the stuff in the Bible is very controversial.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So but this one says, children, obey your parents and everything for this pleases the lord. That's the NIV.
Speaker 2:Breeze Right. It says children. I'm always right. And as far as my sweatshirt says, I'm also a delight, and everyone thinks so.
Speaker 1:I have heard this one used countless times on adults Mhmm. In regards to their parents. Yep. The Bible did not say, people, humans, obey your parents, for this pleases the lord. It said, children.
Speaker 1:And I think that that is valid to some degree. Children, often, not always, and it really depends on the sort of situation you're in. Mhmm. But remember, this is instructions according to the header for God following households. This is not talking to everyone.
Speaker 1:Right. Got it here. Let's, like, really, really lay that in. Actually, Paul, I think. Oh, Paul.
Speaker 1:He is not talking to everyone. Mhmm. He is not talking to abusive homes. He is not talking to people that don't follow God. He is talking to Christ following homes that are trying to emulate God.
Speaker 2:There are terrible, terrible people out there that do terrible things. And whether you're a child or you're an adult, if someone out there is doing terrible things to you, run as fast as
Speaker 1:you can away from them. Get away from them. And find the support that is out there. There's absolutely support out there for you. So on the one hand, this is talking to, again, homes that are trying to to follow God.
Speaker 1:Right. Right? Mhmm. And I I know that that sounds a little controversial because, again, this is a wife submit yourself to your husband's section. But we've talked about this.
Speaker 2:Okay, guys? We've talked about this. That's not what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1:We're trying to, for once, stay
Speaker 2:slightly untapped. And we're not doing great. It's not going super well. But I think it's the pink room. It's confusing.
Speaker 2:It's, it's sending me into overstimulation.
Speaker 1:So first, that's who it's talking to. 2nd, it is talking to children.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It is talking to children. Not, you are my child. You will always be my baby. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2:No. Then you'll always be my baby. That's where I carry.
Speaker 1:Now they can check off that bingo square. You're welcome. I will always consider my children my children, but they will not always be children.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:At some point, they will be adults. Yep. Unfortunately, rather soon, one of them may be a teenager. So once they hit that point where they are no longer children, there can't be that obedience factor anymore. And so I wanna for those of you that are children in this situation where your parents are saying, obey me because you're my children even though you're 45, I wanna release you from some of that.
Speaker 1:This verse isn't talking to you. Mhmm. There's an interesting movie.
Speaker 2:It's on Netflix. It's inappropriate. Interesting movie. It's on Netflix. It's inappropriate.
Speaker 1:Because any of your movies are appropriate. What are
Speaker 2:do we need that preface? There is a Netflix movie with Olivia Coleman. Is that her last name? Yes. Anyways, it's called Wicked Little Letters.
Speaker 2:It recently came out. There's a lot of cussing. Just a ridiculous amount. But she's an adult and her father is supposed to be this godly man and he's still trying to control her Mhmm. In this movie.
Speaker 2:And it's really interesting to see that dynamic and her start to break that down, and then she cusses a lot. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
Speaker 1:You gotta do what you gotta do. I I think this is really applicable also. You see families that are extremely fundamentalist, and I'm thinking specifically of the Duggars. High control. Yeah.
Speaker 1:High control, fundamentalist families that will say, particularly with their daughters
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:They will say the girls are under the father's control until they get married, and then that control, and I'm very much using that word intentionally, passes over to the husband. Right. Because, apparently, they don't think female brains can manage on their own. So you'll see these older daughters in those very fundamentalist families still living at home Mhmm. Before they're married.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Still obeying, like distinctly obeying.
Speaker 2:Stay sweet and obey. Right? Keep sweet.
Speaker 1:Keep the that's actually the FLDS. Those are the the polygamist Mormons. But you'll see that happening because there is this concept from this verse where we're just we're totally misinterpreting who's being spoken to.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:This is talking to children, not my children, actual children. Right.
Speaker 2:Their brains are still developing. Yeah. Small babies.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Those kids, when they are in a healthy situation and I wanna I really wanna drive that point home because I don't want people to come from this and be like, well, if I'm in an unhealthy situation because we've watched that happen where people are in abusive childhood situations and still militantly obey just to keep the peace, just to keep safe, just to whatever. And I'm not talking about that.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about if you are in a healthy situation, your parents, both parents are trying to follow God. Right? Then this verse is talking to you. And you are a child. You are an actual child.
Speaker 1:Then this verse is speaking to you.
Speaker 2:I don't know how many children are listening.
Speaker 1:I don't know either. And on the flip side, talking to parents and I know it's hard. Again, I don't have adult kids yet. Even though I'm 97, you'd think they would be adults by now.
Speaker 2:I know. I'm also 97.
Speaker 1:But as a parent, it's so hard to let your kids grow up. Right? Mhmm. Even though my kids are little, I'm watching my daughter start to have all these different freedoms. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You know, we'll let her go over to the neighbor's house, and we'll let her go outside on her own. And
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:She has all these different freedoms.
Speaker 2:As simple as, like, getting to pick out her own clothes Right. And figure out her own sense of style.
Speaker 1:Right. Things that, as a parent, I would normally or not normally, before I would have controlled. I would have decided for her because she was little and that's the developmental stage we were at. And so letting go of those moments of control is hard. And I imagine that it would be particularly hard when you have to fully let go.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Not that you let go of them as people, but that you fully let go of the control of a parent.
Speaker 2:Let go, but then trust. Do you trust yourself or do you not? Do you trust that you did everything you could to teach them how to critically think or be able to make those decisions on their own, understand the risk versus reward in all those situations. Do you trust yourself that you did a good job? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And do you trust your kids? Yeah. So those are the verses that I wanted to go through today, but I think that there's 2 other topics that we wanted to talk about. Hopefully, not that long. We're very talkative today.
Speaker 1:Girl, we be chatty. And those are, number 1, how do you know as a Christian when it's time to walk away? How do you know? That's a very different topic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, also, how can you handle this holiday season as you sit at those big tables with people that you might disagree with on a lot of things? Mhmm. How do you deal with the situations when you find yourself in them?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think let's start with, how do you know? How do you know to walk away?
Speaker 2:I think biggest indicator is take a step back from your situation and say, are these people pouring into my life positively Mhmm. Or negatively? How do I feel when I'm around them? Do I feel built up? Do I feel spiritually full?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or do I feel drained? Right. Do I feel degraded? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And, also, how bad? Mhmm.
Speaker 1:You know? One of the verses that I hear used a lot in this case is where Jesus says to turn the other cheek. Right? Mhmm. And the disciples say, well, how many times should we turn the other cheek?
Speaker 1:And if you're not familiar with this section of the Bible, it's it's all about forgiveness. And Jesus essentially says, if somebody smacks you in the face, turn the other cheek and let them smack you in the face again. And the the disciples say, well, how many
Speaker 2:times am I supposed to do this? This sounds Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Truly awful. And he says 70 times 7. And, essentially, it's how many times will you forgive someone? Mhmm. Now I don't know what 70 times 7 is because I am not a mathematician.
Speaker 2:Well, 7 times 7 is
Speaker 1:It's a bunch. Okay? It's a whole bunch. It's more forgiveness than I I've ever given anyone. I can certainly say that.
Speaker 1:But I think what we have to remember is, did Jesus say to forgive them? Yes. He did. Mhmm. Forgive them.
Speaker 1:What is forgiveness? Does it mean standing still and letting someone continue to be in your life and continue to abuse you?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Again, whether that's physical, emotional, mental, whatever kind of abuse. And no one else gets to define what abuse looks like for you. So if it's bad enough that you're feeling attacked, hurt, pained Mhmm. You get to decide. Yep.
Speaker 1:When that line gets crossed. Jesus didn't say, keep just keep them in your life forever. Keep letting them abuse you forever.
Speaker 2:It's okay to forgive and then step away. Yes. Forgive for your own peace of mind. Mhmm. For your own heart to not hold on to that rage and resentment because that's not gonna be good for you.
Speaker 2:You're gonna get gray hairs. I have gray hairs because of them. You have gray hairs because of resentment and hate? Resentment and hate. Oh.
Speaker 2:All of it. Wow. But move on. Yeah. Don't keep letting that person be a bad influence in your life.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Get away.
Speaker 1:And I will also say from a place of experience, while, yes, absolutely, you need to I think it's important for your own peace to get to a place of forgiveness. Also, give yourself some grace while you're getting there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1:yeah. You're not gonna get there, moment 1. It it may take you years to get there.
Speaker 2:And you mentioned this earlier. It might take going to therapy and talking through those situations, being able to step out and let someone from the outside perspective say, hey, what they did to you was wrong. Mhmm. This is not normal behavior.
Speaker 1:Right. Huge proponent of therapy. I think everyone should be in therapy. Good therapy. Good therapy.
Speaker 1:Go okay. Let me let me preface.
Speaker 2:Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. We gotta get your soapbox.
Speaker 2:Where did it go?
Speaker 1:Go to someone trained in therapy. Your pastors likely have not been trained in therapy. Stop going to them
Speaker 2:for therapy. Class. We're talking someone who, like, went Has a degree.
Speaker 1:Has multiple degrees, please. My gosh.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'm done. I'm done with my rant. Otherwise, for heaven's sake, I'll be your therapist.
Speaker 1:We are. I guarantee you.
Speaker 2:Give me a call. My number is oh, that's weird. We just glitched. So strange of us. You could you could private message me on one of our social medias.
Speaker 2:You could do that as long as you don't stalk me. Are you good? Boundary. You good? You you're okay?
Speaker 2:My neck hurts.
Speaker 1:Bree spent the whole day reading yesterday and she's old, so she, pinched a nerve. Which is funny because I've been telling the world that I'm illiterate for a long time. You have. And yet here you are reading books. So proud.
Speaker 1:Thank you. And they're not just Picture books.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or board books. I've read 5 board books. Are you proud? So proud.
Speaker 2:See, cat, run.
Speaker 1:Anyway, back to the topic. So I do think I Brie and I were both raised in a situation in a family that said, you can never walk away from family. And we got that from a lot of different directions. And I understand I understand where it comes from to some degree because, I mean, we grew up in a great big family.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:We grew up in my big fat Greek wedding. Okay? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so eat no lamb. Wait. I messed up that. You did. You did.
Speaker 2:You don't eat no meat.
Speaker 1:There you go. It's okay. I make lamb. And when you come from a healthy environment and an environment that loves one another Mhmm. Of course, you're gonna sit there and say, family is everything.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Family is everything because it's healthy, and it's good, and it fills you up. Mhmm. But if you don't come from that or if you have family members that kind of deviate from that healthiness Yeah. That's when things change.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. And I don't think at any point, the Bible is trying to say to you, keep yourself in those unhealthy situations.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Find your people. I'm not saying hide in your bedroom all the holiday season and don't see anyone and don't talk to anyone. I don't think that's healthy either. No. But find your people.
Speaker 1:Who are your people? Are they are they people from church, maybe? Are they friends from work, maybe? Are they your neighbors? Who whoever they are, find your people and make your community.
Speaker 2:Find people that prioritize you. Right. That make you feel like you matter. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And you do. Mhmm. And with the people I think with everyone, it's okay to have boundaries. Mhmm. Even the people that love you.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. It's okay to say, like, look.
Speaker 2:Get out of my room right now, Alyssa. I'm tired of talking to you.
Speaker 1:You never say that.
Speaker 2:I literally sit on top of you.
Speaker 1:But it's okay to say, I only have this much time to give you today.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I can't text you all day long. I can't see you 4 times a week. Like, it's okay to say those things. It's okay to have those boundaries. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So I
Speaker 1:have boundaries with everybody. But if you need to have strict boundaries with family, whether it's the holidays or whether it's not, don't let people guilt you into spending that time with family out of guilting you with Jesus. Yeah. Because it's not applicable. It's just not.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And I think something that helps with creating those boundaries is if you're going into the holiday season, you know that you're gonna be around a lot of people that, you know, family's family. Sometimes they say things. We talked about this in the car earlier. For 1, don't put yourself in a position where you're stuck.
Speaker 2:Have a way out. Right. Don't get your car stuck where you have to ask a bunch of people to move. Mhmm. Don't sit locked in a room with people that you feel uncomfortable with.
Speaker 2:Have a way out to give yourself a little bit of control Yeah. In that situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think those are great strategies for dealing with should you choose to go to the holidays with people that maybe you are not as comfortable with
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Or even you are comfortable with them, but you know
Speaker 2:that sometimes it's a lot, and especially right now. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now. This time of year, this year in particular Yeah. It can be really difficult. Mhmm. I I know we've had to have conversations that have been not my favorite Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Already. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And so say stop talking.
Speaker 1:And so what are you gonna say when those comes up come up? And I think it is so helpful to plan. Mhmm. Whether it is, like, there's a particular seat at the house that we go to for Thanksgiving, and it's, like, all the way in the back. You are trapped.
Speaker 1:You you're never leaving unless you are going to climb over the table or scoot your butt under the table. And I'm I'm only 5 feet tall, but I'm too big for that now.
Speaker 2:I'm not joking. You have to watch how much you drink in that seat. Yeah. Because you can't get up to the vendor. And that's just like you're trapped.
Speaker 2:You'll never leave. I always end up in that seat. Every single holiday, I'm like, I'm not gonna sit there. Where do I end up?
Speaker 1:There. But my point is don't end up there. If you know that that you're gonna that some uncomfortable conversations may happen Mhmm. Plan ahead. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Don't sit in that seat. Don't sit in that room, you know, whatever it is. Or maybe it's, I'm gonna make sure I'm not alone with this particular person. Yeah. Or I need to have a plan for if I feel the need to say something.
Speaker 1:Maybe you know that your great uncle is gonna say something that makes you really uncomfortable, and this year, you're gonna say something.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:How are you gonna say it? How are you gonna say it in a way that doesn't invite massive conflict? You know, I'm not saying start a fist fight the holidays, but if you feel the need to to call something out or to say something, how can you do that in a way that that person might actually hear you? Mhmm. And Bree was talking earlier about she was telling me earlier about gentle parenting and how you can kind of utilize that Mhmm.
Speaker 1:For things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that has been fun on TikTok lately. Just people who have different opinions from you, whether it be politics, whether it be, you know, x y z. Maybe just start by asking them questions, making them explain themselves. Not immediately jumping to, like, I'm gonna jump down this person's throat.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or even I need to make my point right now. Just say, okay. I hear you. Why do you feel that way?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Or what happened in your life that made you feel okay? Where did you get that information from? Just keep asking questions, but don't let that rage inside you make you lose control.
Speaker 1:You know? I think that's particularly difficult, again, right now in the climate that we're in because, I mean, for you and I, for example, there is stuff we're extremely passionate about Mhmm. That is relatively controversial Yeah. Don't get me going. In our sphere.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And if you come at those things and it it's hard because you you got you've got, like, these social justice bubbles
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Bursting inside of you. You know? Whatever. And you want to just scream at someone sometimes. It happens.
Speaker 1:It does. It's hard in those situations. You're because you're so passionate about it. Right. You want them to see things from your perspective.
Speaker 1:But rarely does screaming in someone's face No. Actually help anything or change anyone's mind. So plan ahead. Mhmm. I know that this is going to make me feel this way, that this topic, should it come up, is going to make me feel this way.
Speaker 1:So what do I wanna do? Do I wanna confront it, and how do I do that? Or do I wanna not confront it? And that is okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It absolutely is. But you don't have to stay in that room. You don't have to stay in that situation. Like, if something's making you uncomfortable, just step out of the room.
Speaker 2:Step out of the house. Yep. Leave. Yep. You know, do what you
Speaker 1:have to do. None of this is disrespecting your elders.
Speaker 2:Mm-mm.
Speaker 1:None of this is not obeying your father and mother or not honoring your father and mother or whatever. Many churches I've been in would try and shape this conversation as unbiblical. Mhmm. But putting up boundaries is not unbiblical.
Speaker 2:Respecting yourself Mhmm. Is not unbiblical. Great. Biblical. There you go.
Speaker 2:Biblical. Biblical. Good job.
Speaker 1:I think it's important to to see that Jesus didn't surround himself all the time with people who were combative with him, with people who were abusing him. I mean, obviously, we know what happened to Jesus at the end. I'm not saying that there wasn't abuse there. Judas. But Jesus didn't surround himself with the Pharisees.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Even though, yes, absolutely, he interacted with them. Yeah. He didn't surround himself with them at all times. He surrounded himself with people who supported and loved him.
Speaker 1:Yep. So I'm not saying that you're always going to only be around people who support and love you. You're not always gonna be able to control that situation, the the Pharisees or your difficult family members or whoever may come into your life at certain times.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But you put up the boundaries of when and where that's acceptable.
Speaker 2:And I think also you get to make your own family. Right. You know? It's not always people that are directly genetically related to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Find find your community. And I don't know. I know in Christian circles, that often equates to the church. Like Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Find your small group, and they'll be your family or whatever. And that may or may not be the case for you. I have had some small group. I've yeah. I've had some very bad small group experiences.
Speaker 1:That that may not be true for you. I don't wanna fill in the blank for you where I say, and your church shall be your family, and good luck with that. Now find your whoever your people are as long as they are building you up and helping you grow. And I would love it if they were also building you up and helping you grow in your faith. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that
Speaker 1:would be a positive as well, but you get to make those decisions. Mhmm. So this holiday season, I hope you can just remember some of those things and and really protect yourself, protect your peace, protect your family. Love, joy, peace, patience, understanding, and whatnot.
Speaker 2:What are those? Fruits of the spirit? Those are not.
Speaker 1:The spirit next week, actually, we are scheduled to premiere on Thanksgiving. We we're not yeah. We're gonna probably post a day early. Mhmm. So we'll post on Wednesday.
Speaker 2:Because nobody wants to listen to us on Thanksgiving. I mean, everybody's busy eating turkey.
Speaker 1:If you do wanna listen to us while you're making your turkey. You can listen to us early. You can nope. Late. Oh.
Speaker 1:You can listen to us the next day.
Speaker 2:Wait. I thought we were coming out on Wednesday. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Thanksgiving is Thursday. I'm confused. So if you wanna turn us on while you're cooking your turkey,
Speaker 2:please don't understand. Okay? If you wanna turn on the podcast while you're cooking your turkey,
Speaker 1:do feel free. We would love to, be with you in that situation.
Speaker 2:Yes. We just made a Thanksgiving dinner yesterday. We did. We have made
Speaker 1:2 Thanksgiving dinners thus far. Please don't judge us.
Speaker 2:We just like stuffing. Mostly okay. But we made, like, a turkey breast.
Speaker 1:Like, it's not like we Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cooked a whole heap.
Speaker 2:Not a whole turkey. Just the boob.
Speaker 1:And next week, we are gonna be talking about being thankful and what that looks like. Gratitude. Gratitude. Because we may not always seem like the most thankful people
Speaker 2:in the whole world, but we're going to talk about it. I'm thankful for some things.
Speaker 1:I am thankful for, many things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Turkey breasts. Was there a comma between those? The breasts of the turkey. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm very thankful for Starbucks
Speaker 1:and Disney in case all of you hadn't caught on to that so far in our lives. So we will see you then. Actually, we'll be recording that in a couple of hours. So we'll see you very soon for us, about
Speaker 2:a week later for you. Yeah. You're welcome. I think I've had 4 shots of espresso today Cool. That was in my coffee.
Speaker 2:So you're welcome, world. Mhmm. Fun times.
Speaker 1:Alright. I'm gonna make her shut up now so that she stops.