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Testing your ideas against reality can be challenging. Not everything will go as planned. It’s about keeping an open mind, having a clear hypothesis and running multiple tests to see if you have enough directional evidence to keep going.
This is the How I Tested That Podcast, where David J Bland connects with entrepreneurs and innovators who had the courage to test their ideas with real people, in the market, with sometimes surprising results.
Join us as we explore the ups and downs of experimentation… together.
David J Bland (0:1.407)
the podcast. ⁓
Joao Moita (0:3.138)
Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.
David J Bland (0:6.101)
very excited to get you on here. So quickly, I kept seeing all these LinkedIn posts about what you're doing with product weekend. And I'm seeing all these posts from all these peers I respect going, I'm doing this thing for product weekend. ⁓ And I saw enough of those. was like, wow, I need to learn more about this and find out how they're building this. And you're so forthcoming writing about what you're thinking and how you're testing. I thought, I have to have you on here.
to chat, ⁓ I'm so happy that you're here to just share some of your ⁓ testing and what you're doing behind the scenes with our listeners.
Joao Moita (0:44.310)
So it's really great to hear that, also especially coming from someone with so much experience that has been definitely to lots of events and seen a lot of things on LinkedIn as well. ⁓ So it's great to hear that it stood out.
David J Bland (0:58.089)
It did, it did. So maybe you can give our listeners just a little bit of background on yourself and maybe a little bit of thought process of what was leading up to the need for ⁓ product weekend.
Joao Moita (1:9.710)
Yeah, so let me see how far back should I go. So I studied aerospace engineering, but I realized early that I didn't want to be an engineer, but I decided to still stick with it and use that time during the degree to explore as much as possible, to experiment new things. was part of a student's organization, traveled a lot, did a lot of amazing things, and understood that I wanted something that had
still to do with tech, but a bit more with people as well. So I was looking to startups or consulting. Bit by accident ended up in a startup. There they gave me the title of product manager shortly after I joined, ⁓ bit by accident again. ⁓ And ⁓ first I realized that ⁓ what I was reading in the books was not matching what I was doing ⁓ and I didn't have anyone.
inside the company that I could look up to in product management that could guide me. ⁓ So I started reaching out to other people outside and in those conversations I realized that other people were feeling the same. These strong feelings of imposter syndrome, ⁓ lacking like support, ⁓ the role being very ambiguous and you having to project a lot of confidence to a lot of stakeholders while you're not sure of what you're doing and ⁓ everything seems to be falling apart and you need to figure it out somehow and still lead the team.
So ⁓ yeah, I had some experience organizing events from my university years ⁓ and I was like, okay, organizing an event is a pretty easy thing for me. So I'll just get together some people, put everyone in a room and have some conversations. ⁓ Turned out to be on a weekend because that's when I was available because I was working full time. Turned out to be a small event because that was easier to... ⁓
recruit participants than if it was a huge conference. ⁓ But ⁓ as the first edition turned out to be really good, we had a lot of people asking for more and wanted to come back. ⁓ We had even sponsors from that first edition, which was something I was not planning for. Yeah, ⁓ and then from then we started realizing what were the things that were really resonating, what were the things that were not ⁓ as great, ⁓ and we kept...
Joao Moita (3:35.830)
iterating, ⁓ then realized that there was demand for this ⁓ outside of Lisbon, but I didn't have time to do it while working full time. So I decided to quit ⁓ this already roughly two years ago. ⁓ And since then I've been focusing on growing product week and further ⁓ as my main thing, ⁓ even though with some side projects or side gigs, let's say, ⁓ in consulting, coaching, helping teams, but also working with ⁓
other product leaders ⁓ in the field, also curating other ⁓ conferences, events and being very present in the community. ⁓ Yeah, so ⁓ it evolved quite a bit since that first edition, which happened a bit by exploration. ⁓ And ⁓ yeah, happy to dive into the details.
David J Bland (4:28.084)
I'd love to dive into some of that. There's so much there that I'm interested in asking about. ⁓ seems as though, and we've heard this on other ⁓ podcast episodes as well from other guests, that you were sort of thrown into this and then given the title product manager. And that seems rather common. And I'm wondering why you think that is. Why is it that there's almost no formal training? It's almost as if
Joao Moita (4:53.240)
Mm-hmm.
David J Bland (4:54.994)
You solved the problem and therefore now you're a product manager. ⁓ Why do you think the onboarding of product managers ⁓ is what it is today?
Joao Moita (5:6.700)
I think it ⁓ really depends ⁓ on the types of companies and I've seen it ⁓ like different stories ⁓ playing out. Maybe I can start with my own example. So it was a small startup ⁓ and it was very founder driven ⁓ from the beginning. ⁓ And they had this ⁓ project managers and people working in tech. ⁓ And some of those people were reading
Melissa and Marty Gagan and all these things and they're trying to bring some of those ways of working to the company. ⁓ So ⁓ by the time I joined, it's already been like maybe a couple of years that they've been having a product manager ⁓ and they have been trying to create that kind of culture in that startup, ⁓ which ⁓ ended up failing because there was just too much presence of ⁓ the founder, which I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, but... ⁓
If you are in that kind of environment, if you're not empowered, your title should not be product manager. It should be, I don't know, project manager or program manager or something else. ⁓ But that's a misconception. Then I think in Europe in particular, the title of product manager, digital product manager, as we're talking about, ⁓ it's always in the digital space. ⁓ It's relatively new. I'm not...
that old in the field to be able to, I haven't experienced all the evolution, but when I came in just a few years ago, there was many people didn't know what product management was, like certainly not in the company where I was, but also in many other companies and many other people that I was talking with, they had heard of product owner as a scrum function, someone that works with developers to translate the business needs.
but not product manager in the sense of having ownership. think also because Portugal and some of other, ⁓ let's say, countries in Europe, are not ⁓ big tech hubs like London or Berlin. ⁓ We always had a lot of external companies using local dev resources. So you needed a local product owner to work with the developers, but the product manager was probably sitting in...
Joao Moita (7:30.560)
New York or Silicon Valley or whatever, ⁓ just having the development team outsourced in Portugal. So that's why I believe the product owner function grew so much. And then there was a lot of overlap and confusion between product owner and product manager. ⁓ And yeah, I I still, there is a lot of confusion there. Then I think ⁓ on ⁓ bigger companies, well, maybe not only in bigger companies, but there's the...
let's say, sexiness of the product management function, of being this cool position that you have a lot of ownership, that you can ⁓ make strategic decisions and impact the business. ⁓ And that appeals to ⁓ a lot of talent. ⁓ Well, all kinds of talent, top talent and also not so top talent. ⁓ But ⁓ yeah, so I think a lot of companies ⁓ use ⁓ that terminology.
to attract talent, ⁓ even though the actual job description or the actual role is not as much of a product manager, but more of a product owner or project manager. ⁓ I ⁓ guess that's ⁓ a bit the reasoning. like general confusion and ⁓ the role not being as mature, ⁓ but also the trying to be attractive for talent. ⁓ But I've seen that story play like...
Several times people joining, excited to start the new role as product manager. ⁓ And after a few ⁓ weeks or months, they realize they're just a backlog manager and they quit or they get depressed ⁓ and they join product week and to try to connect with others and share these pains. So yeah, that's something I've seen quite a lot.
David J Bland (9:20.523)
Something you bring up there that didn't really give a lot of thought to, but I think it's very insightful, is that dynamic of local product owners ⁓ and then remote product managers. ⁓ I do think that needs to be talked more about because it has ramifications in the region ⁓ that dynamic is playing out. ⁓ It almost sounds as if...
Joao Moita (9:41.794)
Thank
David J Bland (9:44.000)
You you were trying to do this. You said you read the books, but it wasn't like the books. And you mentioned, you know, Melissa Perry and Marty Kagan and definitely peers of mine. What is it about going from a book to practice? And I say this as somebody who's written a book myself and seen people struggle to put it into action at times. What is that gap for you? What was making that so difficult for you that you were reaching out to other people for help and assistance?
Joao Moita (10:14.328)
Yeah, ⁓ well, I think in my case also it was the fact that I didn't have a lot of ⁓ work experience overall. ⁓ I was working with pretty much everyone was older and more experienced than I was. ⁓ So there was also that dynamic that was harder for me to come in and say, hey, I read this in this book, let's try this out. ⁓ And it's like, yeah, you're just a...
kid out of college that read a book, ⁓ we've been doing this for several years. ⁓ So yeah, there was that struggle in addition to ⁓ the general understanding of what the role is. ⁓ But then I think there's a lot of, ⁓ there's a very ⁓ big human element ⁓ in product management. ⁓
where you need to influence without authority. ⁓ And that ⁓ influence ⁓ is very hard to ⁓ do well. ⁓ And you can ⁓ read about it and have the perfect plan. Like these days you can ask Chetjipiti to prepare the perfect plan for you to influence everyone in the company without authority. ⁓ But in the end it's about human relations and ⁓ connections. So you need to bring people on board.
And then I think when you're coming from a place where you just read a book, you lack the ⁓ reputation or the... ⁓
Yeah, people won't just accept what you're saying if you're not coming from a place of experience or having seen it. ⁓ And that, ⁓ I feel, is even harder in ⁓ Europe and in this context of product owner culture. ⁓ Because very few people have worked with, let's say, a proper product manager. Lots of people have worked with great managers, but not product leaders. ⁓
Joao Moita (12:23.554)
there's not as many people that have seen it in reality. So yeah, I think that there's that element of seeing it ⁓ work firsthand. ⁓ And then it's the ⁓ context and the nuances that it's ⁓ like, ⁓ as ⁓ you're probably already guessing what I'm going to say that it depends, right? And like, it really is like that in product management ⁓ and
Like even the most perfect framework may not apply as neatly to your ⁓ context. And that's why also I believe, I really believe in the mission of product weekend and what we're doing ⁓ that we're bringing context and we're creating spaces where people can bring that context. So ⁓ when we're having, for instance, a talk or a session at product weekend, it's not just learning from the speaker. It's learning with the speaker and the group. So you're.
not just listening the ⁓ perfect framework that David has ⁓ prepared for you and you can now apply. ⁓ You can say, okay, that's great, David, but in my company, have this CFO that's always screaming at me in the morning, like, ⁓ how should I handle this? How should I apply that framework in this context? ⁓ And then you can have a more nuanced conversation and ⁓ have more insights. And that's also the...
best ⁓ way to learn, ⁓ I believe. think ⁓ learning from your own experience is the second best way to learn. The best way to learn is to learn from other people's experiences. And when you get more nuanced and granular, you can ⁓ actually understand and unlock some of these ⁓ some of these learnings that allow you to implement in practice. ⁓ And then also having access to these resources, because the context will change and will evolve. There will be
new information, ⁓ but having access to this network of people that you can reach out and say, hey, could we sit for just 15 minutes? I'm dealing with this situation. Maybe you could help me think through this. I think that kind of network is also very powerful and valuable for product people to have that kind of ⁓ thinking partners that they can leverage.
David J Bland (14:45.340)
I agree. It's almost like you're building the community, you know, the support network that was pretty fractured before. And I think from a framework point of view, definitely guilty ⁓ writing a book with a framework. then, ⁓ you know, since then, what I realized is I've tried to step back and open things up a bit. ⁓ And I think a lot of people have heard me talk this year about extract map test, which
is only three steps and it's more principled and you can talk about, well, you can extract risk from a canvas, but from other things, you know, like your roadmap or your backlog. ⁓ And that's really helped me, I think, get the point across to people who are struggling to put it into practice. I think human nature, though, is almost, ⁓ I'm going to just give them even more detail in the book and do a second edition that's even ⁓ more detailed. ⁓ it's just...
that doesn't always solve the issue of no, no, no, you don't understand my context, know, like the ⁓ exact yelling at ⁓ the person every morning. ⁓ So, ⁓ so this is kind of born out of a need that you have ⁓ and ⁓ you ⁓ went outside your company looking for support ⁓ and your background and events ⁓ happen to just compliment that very well of, let me, I can run an event. So at what point
Joao Moita (15:41.890)
Yeah. ⁓
David J Bland (16:4.678)
It doesn't have to be a structured way of how you test your way through everything. ⁓ what are some of the risks that you were experiencing? Because you said about two years ago is when you started this endeavor. What were some of the risks you were experiencing? And what were some of ways you were thinking about from like a first principled approach? How am I going to test some of these things and see if I have traction to grow this?
Joao Moita (16:20.622)
Mm-hmm.
Joao Moita (16:25.752)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think, ⁓ as you said, I always go from ⁓ first principles. I ⁓ to use ⁓ frameworks, ⁓ but ⁓ I see frameworks ⁓ more as, ⁓ well, different ⁓ options are framing to think about the problem. But generally, on most of my experiments, ⁓ the thinking is, ⁓ what is it
that I want ⁓ to understand and what's the easiest way for me to ⁓ validate that question, that assumption. ⁓ And ⁓ well, when it started, one of the first risks I ⁓ assessed was that maybe I could do this and then not have ⁓ enough money to pay ⁓ the food for the event ⁓ and ⁓ be losing money. So I solved that directly by charging a ticket.
And that also allowed me to test the interest and the willingness to pay of people if there was any possibility to make money from it. I didn't have a proper business plan or anything like that when I started. was really something that I, like worst case scenario, I would be having fun and meeting some cool people and it'd be just five people in a room. But it turned out to be a bit more than that.
So that was one of the first risks. Then ⁓ the demand, to test the demand, I just put up a website, started talking about it on LinkedIn and saw how many people ⁓ signed up. ⁓ After I got some people interested in talking with some people, let's call it user interviews or customer interviews. ⁓ After I got some interest, I closed the venue and then started collecting payments.
Then ⁓ after that ⁓ first edition we measured ⁓ quite thoroughly the satisfaction. ⁓ We've been using consistently NPS as that indicator, which is an indicator that has seen a lot of criticism, but we're it ⁓ knowingly of the limitations of the method. ⁓ But I think for an event it works really well and also because
Joao Moita (18:53.198)
For us, the word of mouth is a key growth lever, so we want to keep track of that. ⁓ So we tested and ⁓ we launched the event and then we always collected feedback after the event. And we saw the things that were working, the things that were not working, and we tried some changes. ⁓ So in terms of the format of the event, we've experimented with many different things. We've done... ⁓
5 days event, we've done just a few hours event, we've done 3 days event, we've done 1 day event. So we've tried ⁓ different ⁓ things, so we just launch, the interest, some of them don't ⁓ get as many interest and we have to compensate that with extra effort to sell those last tickets. Some others get more interest than people signing up, but then the event itself is not as...
satisfactory or as ⁓ interesting for the participant. ⁓ And we iterate on that with a combination of data and gut feeling also. I think something that really helps with this event kind of business is that I'm very close to the people that are joining. ⁓ So I have direct access to them and being able to have those deeper conversations, the time, their attention also.
to give us ⁓ deeper and more detailed feedback. ⁓ And ⁓ in terms of other things that we ⁓ tested ⁓ or that we ⁓ had to ⁓ validate ⁓ was ⁓ the price was something relevant that we are still ⁓ playing with and still ⁓ testing different variations of it.
⁓ It became especially ⁓ challenging when we started going to other countries with other currencies, with other ⁓ buying power, also because the price also influences the perception of value ⁓ and the commitment of people. So ⁓ that is something that we don't have a structured framework ⁓ to do it. We're just iterating and
Joao Moita (21:16.524)
When it works, we double down. When it's not working, we iterate and explore options. ⁓
Joao Moita (21:27.214)
Yeah, trying to think if there are other particular risks that we had to mitigate. I think the demand part is something that we definitely ⁓ explored in different ways. ⁓ And ⁓ we ⁓ tested something, ⁓ something interesting that we found was that ⁓ we actually had more success in some cities.
where there were less the let's say addressable market was smaller because there was also less competition that was a interesting insights like for example ⁓ Lisbon compared to Porto ⁓ in ⁓ Porto we have more interest because there were less events happening there ⁓ and that's something that we learned by testing and then looking at the numbers and the applications that we had and
understanding that. ⁓
Joao Moita (22:32.716)
Yeah, those are some of the ⁓ risks.
David J Bland (22:39.964)
So your events, ⁓ from my understanding of them, and I've not personally attended one, ⁓ is that they're smaller ⁓ and you're trying to really almost like make space for this deeper conversation to occur and learning to occur with the quote unquote speaker or how you frame the person that's been invited to kind of lead the session. ⁓
How does that compare, do you feel, ⁓ with larger events? ⁓ Do you find that that's feedback you're hearing from people that go to larger events, that they're missing, the networking? Because I know COVID kind of threw everything sideways. ⁓ And I feel we're still getting back to in-person events in a way. And they're not quite the same as they were pre-COVID. And so I'm really trying to understand what's drawing you to that small...
attendee count and that format like what do you think is unique about that or what's driving that from your point of view?
Joao Moita (23:35.758)
⁓ Yeah, so ⁓ I think it started like that ⁓ a bit by accident because it was just easier, more manageable to organize. ⁓ And then we tried with different sizes. So everything from 10 people to 65 participants, we've had that different range in different formats. ⁓
And yeah, we realized that 25 was the sweet spot where there was enough diversity and number of people, but also a group small enough that everyone has the time to connect basically one-on-one with everyone in the room. And I think ⁓ the way we ⁓ position it now, and this was ⁓ not ⁓ an initial design decision, it was a later design decision influenced by the feedback we heard and ⁓ what people were telling about it, ⁓ is that meetups are usually too short, there's not enough time to go deep into conversations and conferences are too big.
It's very easy to get lost in the crowd. And what happens a lot of times when you go to a conference is that you spend the day just listening to one talk after the other that you could have watched on YouTube and you end up not connecting with that many people. ⁓ And at Product Weekend, since it's a much smaller room and a longer timeframe, you have the time and the space to go deep into conversations and to get to know people on a deeper level in a relaxed environment.
So there's also an aspect of that that I ⁓ don't ⁓ know exactly how to ⁓ explain, but setting the stage is also something very important. ⁓ On the way we communicate before the event, on the several communications we send to participants before the event, on the day of the event, how we welcome them, how things are set up, how we do the introduction of the event, how we welcome people.
Joao Moita (26:21.538)
the briefing we do to the speakers, there's a lot of different elements that influence that kind of environment that we have been ⁓ discovering and iterating throughout our experience. One thing that stays constant from the beginning is that we focus on the conversations and the people there ⁓ and we are authentic and transparent.
and we don't care about the fluff and the other things that you add on top and that's what you get in most events is like amazing catering, super fancy decorations and very poor conversations ⁓ so we are the other way around we don't have the fancy part we keep it very simple and very straightforward ⁓ but we focus on the core which is the conversations and the people in the room and that's also ⁓
decision that allows us to grow and to scale because we reduced a lot of the burden and the extra stuff that usually comes with event organizing. We managed to remove a few of those layers to make it easier to organize more often.
David J Bland (27:42.370)
Yeah, I can relate to that. feel as if I've been to so many conferences over the years and I used to run a meetup in San Francisco and ⁓ that was a lot of work and that was just a meetup. ⁓ And ⁓ what I've noticed is that, ⁓ especially even the speakers themselves, we sort of just hang out ⁓ in between sessions and talk or even miss sessions and talk. ⁓ And I've noticed that there's big conferences. ⁓
there's this little collection of us that just sort of hang out and talk and catch up ⁓ and go to lunch ⁓ or dinner and the entire conference itself is almost an excuse to catch up with your peers. It's not necessarily even the tracks themselves ⁓ at some point. ⁓
Joao Moita (28:19.864)
Yeah.
Joao Moita (28:24.204)
Yeah, which is crazy for me because like the people and I've experienced that in ⁓ most conferences I went to. also end out with that ⁓ group of people ⁓ and ⁓ it's like the people that are getting the most value from the conference are the ones that are not paying. ⁓ Like the ones that are actually buying the ticket are getting a worse experience than ⁓ the speakers and the people that are going there for the, the, the conversations because they have to sit through ⁓ talks.
They have to go from one room to the other and they cannot have organic conversations. They cannot ⁓ have that ⁓ more curated experience. ⁓ And I think that's a big problem with a lot of conferences and something that we are consciously ⁓ and very, ⁓ yeah, very ⁓ consciously avoiding, which is becoming slaves to sponsors.
⁓ which is something that I've seen happen in pretty much ⁓ all major conferences ⁓ that ⁓ you pay, I don't know, thousand euro ticket and you spend the day being harassed by vendors ⁓ trying to sell their latest ⁓ product management software ⁓ and what we do at Product Weekend we don't have sponsors in the traditional sense we have a partner that provides the space ⁓ and also
bring some people to the event, but the people in the event, our participants are engaging with the others in an organic way. They're not pitching or having a booth to sell you something. ⁓ so yeah, we've made some decisions that ⁓ lead and are very important to create that kind of environment and vibe in the event, but are very tricky when it comes to financials and growth. And that we have had to make some... ⁓
big difficult decisions against making more money in favor of providing a better experience. But we believe in the end that's what's gonna set us apart and ⁓ that we can leverage further down the line that exclusivity and that ⁓ better experience for the clients, which in this case is the people paying for the ticket to join and not the sponsors.
David J Bland (30:51.097)
Yeah, ⁓ I think ⁓ balancing desirability and viability there, it's always tricky, you know, and ⁓ you're right when it comes to some of these conferences, it felt like ⁓ I won't name specific conferences, but it's almost like there's ⁓ a tunnel they lead you down with booths all on each side. And then the food is at the end of the tunnel and they like force march you through, you know, they do whatever they can to make sure that you're in front of the sponsors. ⁓ And sometimes they get up on stage.
Joao Moita (31:16.054)
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. mean, yeah, it's a business in the end. if it ⁓ has those, if the people paying for the party ⁓ are ⁓ the sponsors, they need to get something out of it. So that's how we reverse that. And we make sure that we have, ⁓ we focus on the people actually paying the ticket and actually joining.
But you also mentioned something that was ⁓ reminding me of something that ⁓ the viability, ⁓ the financials, ⁓ the way that you can make financials work, always need to, yeah, think ⁓ of your costs and making sure that at least you're making more than you're spending. And I think for us, something that allowed me to create this, especially early on.
was that I, ⁓ I mean, we still ⁓ do that, but we have very low costs ⁓ and we didn't have to, yeah, essentially we were keeping our costs low so we could ⁓ run with lower, ⁓ lower revenue. And that allowed us to differentiate and to create something that maybe other people wouldn't afford to do.
⁓ So that was also something that ⁓ especially early on allowed us ⁓ to create something that didn't exist.
David J Bland (32:52.217)
Yeah, thank you for expanding on that. So. ⁓ I want to chat briefly about what's next or ⁓ current assumptions. ⁓ With regards to. ⁓ Do we scale beyond in person events? What does this look like going forward? And as much as you're willing to share, you know, where some of the big assumptions. ⁓ You're thinking of at the moment to keep you up at night that you're. Trying to find creative ways to test and over the next, you know, like three to six months.
Joao Moita (33:17.230)
⁓ Yeah. So there has been a lot of things that we've ⁓ tested and played with ⁓ that I didn't share in detail here, but we have a mentoring program. ⁓ We launched the career accelerator ⁓ event. We had ⁓ different ⁓ formats.
like some of them that we announced and then ended up not doing because the traction was not there. We have retreats that were very intensive, five days events with accommodation and everything. So we've experimented with a bunch of different things. We also did corporate workshops. We also tested with trying to launch a corporate program to work on psychological safety in product teams.
So over the last couple of years we've experimented a lot of things, ⁓ some of them turned out to work relatively well, ⁓ but ⁓ recently in the last, let's say strategy alignment, ⁓ we decided to make some ⁓ radical change, which is focused just on the core. So we realized that we were running around, always trying to test the new thing and add...
something else and create something else that would make more money or deliver more value or allow us to grow. ⁓ And ⁓ we were ⁓ about, ⁓ actually we launched, we did launch a subscription that was open to everyone. You didn't need to attend an event, you could just subscribe on a monthly subscription. ⁓ We had a few people as founding members, and ⁓ our idea was to expand on that and also have a course there.
⁓ And we knew we understood that we could make it happen. The indicators were there, ⁓ but it would be against who product we can use and what sets us apart. Like we've been saying all along that it's all about the connections and the intimacy and the depth of the conversations. ⁓ And it didn't fit with that vision having ⁓ massive online courses ⁓ or in
Joao Moita (35:37.280)
impersonal community with people that you don't know where they're coming from and who they are. ⁓ So we decided against that. ⁓ And with that, ⁓ we decided to focus ⁓ just on one event format, which is what we have now, ⁓ is the circle format, ⁓ which is just a one day event. ⁓ And ⁓ our goal is to just grow it geographically. So have it in as many cities as possible and have event managers ⁓ managing the
local logistics and details. ⁓ We've tested that already ⁓ since ⁓ early last year. So it's been over a year that we've tested having other event hosts taking care of the event and we started ⁓ slowly. So the first one ⁓ was someone taking care of the event and I joined as a speaker. So I was still there making sure that everything was running smoothly. ⁓ Then the second edition, we let them run without
⁓ any either me or my co-founder going there ⁓ and we've tested now we already done it in three different cities ⁓ or four different cities ⁓ and it worked well so now we're still refining that model and that's how we want to grow ⁓ and we have an online part ⁓ online community aspect which we're keeping simple ⁓ and keeping it close to just people that have been to product weekend events before
So you can feel comfortable that whoever is in the community is someone that's been through this experience as well. And that you can trust that it's a safe space. ⁓ Yeah, so we've experimented a lot of that. ⁓ Focus now on this core model. These ⁓ event managers is ⁓ the way that we're planning to grow. So also if you're listening and you're in a different city and you're a product manager in the product.
product management space and would like to host a product weekend, do reach out ⁓ and we can explore that. ⁓ And yeah, also what we ⁓ realized was that the reason we created a business in the first place was to give us freedom ⁓ and to give us time. ⁓ But what it was actually doing was that it was taking time from us ⁓ and we were always filling in.
Joao Moita (38:2.744)
things with more more initiatives with more things to do. ⁓ So this decision to also focus just on the core is also in that direction to give us more time and reduce our time involvement progressively. ⁓ So envisioning that ⁓ in a few months, both me and my co-founder will be able to just be like two or three days a week with product weekend and be able to explore other projects and other initiatives also on the side. ⁓ So yeah, very excited for
What's ahead? ⁓ We have already two events ⁓ in the US confirmed ⁓ for October and November in Boston and New York. ⁓ We're also planning Chicago and Toronto still ⁓ being confirmed, but probably will be announced soon. ⁓ And all around Europe, we have ⁓ many locations and also ⁓ in Dubai will be back there ⁓ still this year. ⁓ So yeah, that's essentially.
where we are right now.
David J Bland (39:4.441)
That's amazing. Thanks for sharing so much of your thought process behind this and the way you're thinking about this. And I love this principle first kind of approach that...
You know, when you start to get astray, you can come back and check about why are we doing this and why did we agree to do this? And ⁓ I don't think we do that enough sometimes. We get caught up in the details and go down the weeds on ⁓ specific things we could do to generate money, but it doesn't align to the why ⁓ of what we're doing. I really appreciate that approach and you sharing that with us. So. ⁓
Joao Moita (39:34.702)
⁓ Also, that is a ⁓ just a side note that that's a problem space that I'm also exploring one of those projects on the side that I'm starting to explore, which is helping founders that have made it that are successful ⁓ and everything should ⁓ be great according to ⁓ in theory, right? You achieved all your financial goals, your company's thriving, but you're still
depressed or burned out or not feeling like you're having an impact. So I'm still not sure how it will look like, but my idea is to create something to support these founders ⁓ in that journey of redefining what success looks like ⁓ and ⁓ adjusting their business to serve their life and not the other way around, which is what ends up happening by default.
David J Bland (40:28.577)
Yeah, I think it's very complimentary to the way you're approaching this. And I think there is something about, you know, ⁓ focusing on the core ⁓ and getting that, you know, working really well before getting distracted about other things. We're carving out those distractions in a way where, hey, this is something separate I could go explore. And so ⁓ I just want to thank you so much for hanging out with us. ⁓ I learned a lot just from hearing your thought process of, you know, why this
came to be at the beginning from your personal experiences and needs and how you found other people with needs like that and how you've been very thoughtful about growing it and ⁓ using data and your gut to ⁓ refine it and everything. ⁓ I feel like you're putting a lot of that stuff we talk about into practice and kind of living it day to day. If people have listened to this and they want to reach out to you and they want to either bring product week into their... ⁓
city or they just want to connect with you and learn more about the other things you're working on. What's the best way for them to reach out to you?
Joao Moita (41:27.182)
⁓ To reach out to me probably the easiest way is LinkedIn. ⁓ So João Moita on LinkedIn. ⁓ Or you can reach out directly by email ⁓ joao at theproductweekend.com ⁓ or simply go to theproductweekend.com. You can find all our events there if you want to join us in a city ⁓ or if you want to bring us to a city where you are, ⁓ you can check
Some more details there, see the events we have coming up ⁓ and join the community.
David J Bland (42:2.379)
Awesome, so we'll include those links on the detailed page. I just want to thank you so much for hanging out with us and sharing all the behind the scenes kind of ⁓ way you're approaching this. I just want to thank you so much for being so open and transparent with us. I think our listeners will learn a lot about how to even approach an events business because of this. So thank you.
Joao Moita (42:22.510)
Awesome, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It was great to chat with you. ⁓ And yeah, I really hope it's valuable for someone out there. I really appreciate your ⁓ podcast episodes. There's a couple of them I really enjoyed and helped me think about ⁓ how to structure things. So I hope it will also be valuable for others.
David J Bland (42:43.479)
I'm sure it will be. Thanks so much, Moita.
Joao Moita (42:45.614)
Thank you. ⁓