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Life throws darkness but Mending Lives ignites the light within. Listen to people willing to share their real-life stories of coping with significant loss. Through inspiring conversations and a touch of spirituality, we explore themes of resilience, adversity and grief.
Jane_Houng: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Jane Hong, and this is Mending Lives, where I'm talking with people from a patchwork of places. Some have had their lives ripped apart by loss, some are in the business of repairing others brokenness, but we're all seeking to make this world more beautiful.
Azra Rahim describes herself as a physician, researcher, and globe wandering mystic. She says she's awed by the majesty of the universe and humbled by the magnitude of the human heart. I can tell you that Azra is a firebrand. She lives life with passion and purpose and has a highly infectious sense of humor. I hadn't planned to interview her when I went to the States for Rebecca Dyke's Writers, an organization I set up for kidlit authors. But over that weekend, Azra was a key player in its [00:01:00] success. You'll know a lot more about why after listening. But I should explain here that she was the first recipient of the Rebecca Dykes Scholarship at the first Rebecca Dykes Retreat in 2022, and that Heather, Yvonne, and Bethany worked together to organise another retreat in 2024, which Azra attended.
This is a good moment to thank Alison from the Highlights Foundation for making that and the event possible. Thanks, Alison. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed chatting to Azra. But if you reach the end, I'll tell you something that may tear your heartstrings. Well, it shredded mine, and ever since I've been sending loving wishes to Azra daily. My home is in hope, I remember her saying, sometime during the wonderful weekend we spent together. Now I understand [00:02:00] more why she said that.
Jane_Houng: I'm here at Highlights at the Rebecca Dykes Writers Retreat. And I'm honoured and delighted to be with Azra Rahim, the what are you called?
Azra_Rahim: Well, this year I'm called the Writing Retreat Resident Assistant.
Jane_Houng: And you've been so much more than that, Azra. I just had to get you here to chat more. And, um, joy doesn't play much of a part in my life for obvious reasons. Um, it hasn't for the last few years, but I aspire towards that and I have to tell you [00:03:00] that that Sufi breathing and the dervish dancing that you had us doing last night was pure delight.
Azra_Rahim: Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Well, first and foremost, thank you for having me on. It is entirely my honour and pleasure to be here. And, uh, I want to publicly thank you for taking me on as the first-ever recipient of the scholarship for the Rebecca Dykes, uh, Writers Retreat. I mean, that meant the world to me, and I don't think I can allow you to proceed further without actually acknowledging that and thanking you for that.
Jane_Houng: It's extraordinary. Um, from my side, because we got a lot of applicants for the first Rebecca Dykes Writers Scholarship. And you applied and, uh, Heather sent me, you know, all the, all the applications. And there was something about what you wrote. Let me try to remember. Of course, we're always looking for diversity and inclusiveness. [00:04:00] Um, but I knew that you were a Muslim woman and, um, and I knew that you had a, some story you wanted to tell. And you thought that by coming to this retreat, that it would help you to sort of on your way. So what's your heritage? Where have you come from, Azra?
Azra_Rahim: So, uh, it's a little bit of a complicated story. Ethnically, I'm a Mutt. Uh, I am one quarter Afghani, uh, although they don't prefer that you refer to them as Ghani because that's their, their currency. I'm one quarter Afghan. I'm one quarter, uh, Persian. And, uh, The remaining Indian and I was born in South India in Bangalore and. I Have lived for about seven years in Bangalore on and off, but the majority of my life my childhood years anyhow were spent in Iraq in Baghdad and then my family immigrated to the States and I've [00:05:00] lived all across America.
Jane_Houng: Now, I don't want to reveal your age. So roughly speaking, when were you in Iraq?
Azra_Rahim: Uh, in the late eighties, I was in Iraq in the late eighties.
Jane_Houng: Okay, and what what was your father doing there was your father's job, right?
Azra_Rahim: Uh, yeah So my father's job took us there and he's a mechanical engineer and the Arab the middle east was kind of going through its industrial revolution and the Arab league was looking for uh, potential for brains really to build um, you know their industries so my dad was hired by the Arab league and we were in um in Baghdad and he worked as a mechanical engineer.
Jane_Houng: And you went to school there?
Azra_Rahim: I did. I did. I went to an Indian central school where I picked up the Sanskrit, which, um, I referenced this morning.
Jane_Houng: I've had the honor to listen to, nevermind reference. You were writing it and reading it. We'll get on to that.
Azra_Rahim: Yeah, yeah. Definitely was taught to read and write, uh, [00:06:00] Sanskrit. Um, and, uh, after the Indian central school, for a very short time, I was actually at the international school.. Uh, and then by then we had, um, my parents had this romantic notion of returning back home to India and settling down happily ever after they had built a dream house. But he didn't come to pass it. My parents weren't happy in India, and we left very shortly and immigrated, um, and came to America.
Jane_Houng: Well, well, what a fascinating upbringing you had here, there everywhere. So you very feel very settled in America now.
Azra_Rahim: Yes, I think in a lot of ways, uh, I'm very American and have always been. Um, you know, there are different parts of me that are called out by the different cultures in which I have lived. And I think something about moving across the globe has really made me a global citizen. So, you know, when I hear of something happening in India or, you know , Southeast Asia, I relate to it immediately. Those are my people, but I feel similarly about [00:07:00] people in the Middle East because, you know, I lived in Iraq, but we frequently traveled to places like Jordan and Kuwait and, um, even Turkey. You know, we've been there several times, even as a kid and America. I'm really independent. I have that sort of rugged individualistic, uh, streak in me. Don't tell me what to do.
Jane_Houng: You certainly have.
Azra_Rahim: So for me,
Jane_Houng: where did that come from? Come on. You,
Azra_Rahim: I don't know. I think it might have actually come from the Afghan in me. You know, these are high mountain people. Um, they want to live life on their terms and it's their way or the highway, you know, Um, some of it is that some of it is personality. I, you know, I have two siblings, I have an older sister and younger sister, and they're definitely not that American and not that individualistic, but I am. And so for me, America is a very nice playground.
Jane_Houng: Okay and I have to laugh because you came as the first scholarship, uh, with the first scholarship. And you were [00:08:00] quiet as a mouse.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: And then, but then you gave one reading.
Azra_Rahim: I did.
Jane_Houng: And.
Azra_Rahim: Oh God.
Jane_Houng: It, it, it, it just. We were gobsmacked. Okay. For a variety of reasons. And then it was like, okay, bye Asra. Nice to, from my side, right? No, you know, fantastic. You could come, blah, blah, blah. And then I've come back this time. You are the assistant and you are, you're as fiery as a dragon, Asra. You, I mean, you just.
Azra_Rahim: I metamorphosize Jane. I metamorphosize.
Jane_Houng: What happened?
Azra_Rahim: Uh, I think, I think I was clamming last time. So, you know, I had, uh, decided to transition or at least take a break from clinical medicine. And when I came to the retreat, I really had very bad imposter syndrome. Uh, but I think it was worse than an imposter syndrome, uh, because I was honestly, uh, uh, guilt [00:09:00] ridden. I was convinced that I was, I had taken somebody else's spot, and I was using up resources. No, really, that, I, because I wasn't sure what I was going to do with, with the, the writing. Was I going to commit to it? Was I going to use this as an, as a launchpad, or was I just gonna? You know, pilfer it away and waste it. So I think I was in that space and I wasn't certain about myself. I wasn't sure what to share, how much to be myself. The crazy, feral human being you're seeing this time around is a real me.
Jane_Houng: Authenticity.
Azra_Rahim: Authenticity. And so I think over the year I had gotten to know you a tiny bit better and definitely Heather and Bethany and Yvonne. We had stayed in touch, you know, they read my work and they validated this idea that, hey, um, you, you might have a future in writing, that the words you're putting down on paper might lead somewhere. And I think that gave me, uh, confidence [00:10:00] to, to say, okay, I do belong to this group. This is my tribe after all. And then I was like, I was the one chomping at the bit. Hey, are we meeting in the fall? Are we meeting in the fall? I need to plan ahead. And then I was gobsmacked when Heather just wrote back to me and said, Hey, we want you to come back as the assistant. And she had it all worked out with Alison. I didn't even have to fill out a form. Can you imagine my shock and surprise? No, really.
Jane_Houng: Okay, whatever. But look, this is what writing does to you. Does it not? I mean, is it the writing that's liberated you?
Azra_Rahim: Oh, yes. Oh, my God.
Jane_Houng: And the catharsis of putting pen to paper or whatever.
Azra_Rahim: Yes. Yes.
Jane_Houng: To tell your story.
Azra_Rahim: Yes. I mean, I am really a different person. Uh, yes. Psychologically, I had a different mindset when I came last time to Rebecca Dykes. But really, truly, I'm a different person, uh, today. And the person that I was in medical school, you know, we had an art journal kind of a club [00:11:00] It was an elective you could actually submit to the journal that publish it and I remember thinking why would I want to do that? I mean like what what would I do with it? You know, I had no interest I had never taken a class in creative writing and then when people talk to me about the healing power of writing I'll be like. And then here I am a year and a change, you know, a year and four months later, and I literally have watched myself grow emotionally. Um, And evolve emotionally as I have written this version, this crazy, feral, obnoxious version of me. No, no, I'm proud of this. I'm proud of this is the most authentic, the most integrated person that has existed in my lifetime.
Jane_Houng: I can't imagine how you're going to be in the future once that book's published and once you're doing the circuits.
Azra_Rahim: I'm going to be so obnoxious, nobody's want to [00:12:00] get, want to get within 10 feet of me. They're like, Oh, there she is. Stay away, stay away.
Jane_Houng: Yeah. I can tell you, I don't mind in my podcast. If you swear a bit.
Azra_Rahim: Okay. I'm trying to be on my best behavior here. I haven't sworn yet. So.
Jane_Houng: Not yet, but let me try to, yeah, let's try and get there because, oh my goodness. Um, okay. No, before we, yeah, let's go back a little bit to when you were a doctor. Um, tell me about that. So you went to medical medical school and then.
Azra_Rahim: So I was, uh, I actually, so I did, uh, an undergraduate in biology and molecular biology and chemistry. And I always thought I wanted to do, uh, lab sciences, you know, I wanted to be a researcher. That was going to be my gig. But by the time I came into third year, I had done enough research to understand that the majority of the research is actually just grind work. You know, it's hours and hours near a centrifuge and that's not what I wanted to [00:13:00] do. So I had to switch out and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. So the next logical
Jane_Houng: How long ago was that actually?
Azra_Rahim: This is, uh, more than 11 years ago now. And so, uh, uh, by then I had decided that I wanted to not do lab research, but I didn't know what else to do. And a friend of a friend's mother actually did public health research. And she got on the phone, uh, out of the kindness of her heart and spoke to me. And she's like, hey, if you like research, consider epidemiology and biostatistics because you know, it's also research. It's also quantifiable research, you know. But it's in it's at the human level.
Jane_Houng: Yes.
Azra_Rahim: It's like studying disease at the you know at the population level and I was like great. So I'm gonna do that. So I I applied and got into a master's program a master's in public health and then I realized once I was there that you can't really be effective in public health unless you have a medical background.
Jane_Houng: Okay.
Azra_Rahim: So by the time I was halfway through that degree, I was [00:14:00] like, really, I think what, what I want to do is medicine. So then I applied to medical school and I got in and then I did medical school. And this was all in Portland, Oregon.
Jane_Houng: Okay.
Azra_Rahim: Yes. Okay. Yeah. Portland, Oregon has a very soft spot in my heart. I
Jane_Houng: Because?
Azra_Rahim: It's, uh, it's an unpretentious, uh, uh, town. It's fairly large and it has an amazing food scene. Like, they have food carts, uh, very good quality, locally sourced food. Organic food, but it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg and it's not pretentious. It's not pretentious It's really good food, uh at reasonable prices. So I I love food. I love eating. So I love Portland I mean, I love Portland for other reasons too, but yeah.
Jane_Houng: But all the jokes that you say about the food here as well. Oh you enjoy.
Azra_Rahim: I do enjoy food. I love food. Yeah.
Jane_Houng: So, this morning you started the day with a recitation in Sanskrit. Not only was the [00:15:00] recitation, he'd actually written the Sanskrit. And then.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: About the most exquisite part of Bagga Gita. And, um, as part of my memoir, I, I've written how significant the Bagga Gita was me, for me, in terms of the healing that I'm still trying to do. And so when you read that, I, my heart was singing because in my, in, in my mind. That's the essence of why we, and there are 27 of us here, gathered together to talk about how we can express our trauma on the page for children. So, you gonna read it? I can see you.
Azra_Rahim: I am, yes, I have it. And it's, uh, so, uh, part of attending any Indian school is that three languages are mandatory. And so you learn Hindi, you learn English, and you learn a third language. And if you are at a central Indian school or an Indian central school, you learn Sanskrit. And everybody knows it's an obsolete language. It's defunct. Nobody uses it [00:16:00] except for religious rites and such in Hinduism. But we were taught it and we were asked. We were not asked, we were made to memorize, uh, Shlokas. And I remember getting into an argument with my fifth grade, uh, Sanskrit teacher, Mrs. Mishra about why, why, why do I have to memorize it? And, uh,
Jane_Houng: Because you can, you can recite it in the Mending Lives podcast.
Azra_Rahim: That's right.
Jane_Houng: What does it say?
Azra_Rahim: Yes. Yes. Well, no, she said, she said that. Uh, if I was ever sitting in a traffic light, uh, she did not want a rap song to go through my head. What she wanted were the sacred words of the Bhagavad Gita going through my head. And I thought she was just making stuff up, because adults make stuff up all the time. But you know what? She was right. Yeah, the Shlokas that she made us memorize still go through my head when I'm at a store. Top light and just kind of VEing out. But I am gonna read you the my two favorite, um, Shlokas out of the Gita, and it goes.[00:17:00]
Paritnaya sadhunam vinashecha duskrtam dharamsangta paranathe sambhamami yuge yuge. And the general meaning of these two Shlokas is wherever and whenever there is, uh, a decay of righteousness, whenever there is an encroachment of darkness into the world, um, and wherever and whenever there is an exultation Salvation of said darkness or unrighteousness, then I myself will come forth. Um, and there are very many ways really to interpret this and.
Jane_Houng: Before we go on this morning when you paraphrased it, you talk about, you talk something about the light in the darkness. Yes.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: Yes. So these Shlokas really are about that eternal battle between good and [00:18:00] bad, between dark and light. And really, this is not some metaphorical, abstract kind of a thing.
Azra_Rahim: We are manifested consciousness, you and I, and everyone who will ever listen to this podcast. And it is It is our work. It is our individual work to fight against the darkness and to bring forth the light. And this, this is not just the work of our lifetime. This is the work of the humanity's evolution towards perfection. So this is each one of ours, uh, work.
Jane_Houng: And last night you described yourself as a Sufi Muslim. So what does that mean? Where does that come from?
Azra_Rahim: Um, so I was born Muslim and I was born Sufi. I was born to parents who were, who were Chishti Sufis from India. And, um, in lieu of a honeymoon, they actually went to a Sufi pilgrimage. And the idea between, Sufism is really that there is more than dogma. [00:19:00] Uh, and really, if you compare this, the universal truths behind any spiritual tradition, they're the same, the same, the exact same fucking thing.
Jane_Houng: Oh, oh, oh, here we go, this is the first one. There might be a few more.
Azra_Rahim: I finally, I finally got real, right?
I finally, you finally asked me something that means something to me. Because so far I was easily well behaved because you were asking me like, you know., general
Jane_Houng: Questions. Go on. Keep going then.
Azra_Rahim: Hit my heart.
Jane_Houng: What's meaningful?
Azra_Rahim: So for me, what is meaningful is realizing that the universal truths that govern life and that govern morality are the same. Your faith traditions, your spiritual traditions, just label them differently and package them differently. But the distinctions should not create divisions. We somehow get so focused on the distinctions that we utilize this and weaponize this, uh, as a means of dividing ourselves into little [00:20:00] clusters and fragments of humanity. But we're all the same fucking people. We are boundless souls in a limited human body, and we are all trying to do the best and be the best versions of ourselves. So anyway, I'll take a sip of water and calm down.
Jane_Houng: So I should, while you're having a sip, I should explain to our listeners. That there were 27 of us last night in a circle and, um, we did some Sufi breathing, which won't be very interesting if we demonstrate now, because it's, it's audio only. And then alas, this isn't going to be video, so I can't see, see you dancing, but we did some Zika dancing and, oh, and before that we did, what was it called? When we were kind of moving our bodies.
Azra_Rahim: That's exactly Zika. That's Zika and then we did whirling after that.
Jane_Houng: Oh, that's right. So, and so the energy that we felt that, well, I, I felt the collective energy, 27 [00:21:00] of us from all over the states. except me, I'm from somewhere else, different religions, different colors, you know, whatever, all types. We were there in that circle for four minutes and there was some kind of divine energy, I would say. What do you, what was your take on it?
Azra_Rahim: Oh, no, no. Uh, it was there. The reason I say with such emphasis that there was something special, something beyond ordinary, something beyond human, is that even though we had a very, very full day, and people were dead tired, even at 9 o'clock. Nobody wanted to disband. They were all just sitting there expectantly waiting because they had had a taste of this nectar, you see, this deliciousness that created heart connection and attunement. And we had come together as one being in that Zikr when we swayed our bodies in the same, [00:22:00] um, rhythm in the same pattern.
Jane_Houng: You were beating that drum.
Azra_Rahim: And we were beating that drum. I, I, I would have dedicated half an hour to that. Four minutes is nothing. It's literally a taste, like a lick of the honey. I would have prepared a banquet, a feast, but I wasn't sure, honestly, how these strangers who had never. tasted this, uh, honey. How they would react.
Jane_Houng: Everybody went for it, right? We were in unison.
Azra_Rahim: We were in unison. Everybody loved it and everybody felt it. It was perceptible and tangible and undeniable. Unfucking deniable.
Jane_Houng: Oh off we go.
Azra_Rahim: Because you, you saw nobody wanted to leave, even the people who had been yawning at the beginning, didn't want to leave.
Jane_Houng: And so we, so we remained seating and then, and then you said, okay, well, I'd like to end this by sharing some music that lifts me to a higher level. And you played some choral music, some renaissance [00:23:00] choral music, Talis, we call it Taris, Spem, it's all about hope. And people listened.
Azra_Rahim: Oh my gosh, yeah.
Another, I don't know. I really didn't want to hit pause. But I felt like I was dishonoring their trust in me. Because originally I had said, Oh no, I'll just play for a minute. And then it went on and on. And I was like, Oh my God, I really need to stop it. But I didn't want to stop it. And I think, honestly, people didn't want me to stop it.
Jane_Houng: Absolutely not.
Azra_Rahim: They were enthralled by it.
Jane_Houng: And I tell you what, maybe as a trailer we'll post that. Because it's on YouTube, right?
Yes, yes. I think Heather found it.
Azra_Rahim: Heather sent around. Yes, the Rebecca Dykes, uh, director found it.
Jane_Houng: A long time ago, I sang it.
Azra_Rahim: Oh my god, Jane! I did not know this! Really? Oh my god!
Jane_Houng: Yeah, well, I was in the Cambridge University Chamber Choir.
Azra_Rahim: Sorry, you might have to delete that part where I was yelling and screaming. But I'm so excited.
Jane_Houng: So I was in the, I was in the [00:24:00] chamber choir at Cambridge university and we sang a lot of Renaissance choral music. And, um, I hadn't heard it for like 40 years for a variety of reasons. It was sublime experience for me as well. And we're definitely, I'm definitely going to post it on Instagram or something. I think you can post music, right? Can you?
Azra_Rahim: Yes, you can. You can absolutely post music. Um, I mean, you might not be able to post the whole piece. It's probably too long, but you'll definitely be able to post a snippet of it. And for me, I think really what was, uh, sweet and beautiful is that people that I would have seen in the grocery store and said to myself, judgmentally, as I tended sometimes be, I would have said this, they will, they will never get it. They will never get the zucker, they will never get this piece of music and people got it. They were so open and so intuitive and they were describing things to me that I thought I would have to explain to them, and I didn't need to do any of the explaining [00:25:00] because.
Jane_Houng: That's the power of collective learning, isn't it?
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: I think this power is particularly, um, powerful when we're all people of, with trauma.
All right. So we don't, words are not enough.
Azra_Rahim: No.
Jane_Houng: But there's some kind of vibe and some kind of common empathy.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: Uh, you know, we shared pain and we know, we know, I mean, not, we don't know in detail. It doesn't matter the details.
Azra_Rahim: The details do not matter.
Jane_Houng: But it's, it's, it's something extremely healing. There was something extremely healing about last night, so thank you so much!
Azra_Rahim: I'm, I'm really honored, I'm really glad. Uh, uh, I think I mentioned to you, and I think I mentioned to Heather too, I was like, You guys sure you wanted me to offer this for a writer's retreat? I mean, there are other things I could talk about. But, uh, yes, I think, people who have gone through hard things in their life. Now, as [00:26:00] I'm older and have lived through some hard things myself, I think I recognize that grow. It's um, it's not a specific body. Uh, you know, position, it's not a language, but there is something I think it may be what you refer to when on our first night together, which is kindness. When you have experienced undescribable loss, when you have been forced to live through something that you thought you could not survive, but you have made it through and you're continuing to live. Something happens. I think you become sort of silken in humility and Tethered to the kindness of others in your own compassion. And it's recognizable. Uh, I can just walk by somebody now and be like, yes, yes. They have suffered.
Jane_Houng: They have suffered..
Azra_Rahim: Yes, they've suffered. See, we both said at the same time. Yes.
Jane_Houng: Yes. Naomi, she have now, right? And
Azra_Rahim: Yes, yes.
Jane_Houng: Until you know what kindness really is.
Azra_Rahim: [00:27:00] Yes.
Jane_Houng: You have to lose things.
Azra_Rahim: Yes. Yes.
Jane_Houng: That first night, I, that was one of the hardest times that I've experienced since losing my daughter. Because I, I like to think I'm, uh, you know, I've done a lot of healing and, um, and I'm strong and I, and certainly as Becky's mother, I have to be, you know, show my, my composure. But I was so I was so what I've got, I know the word now. Um, it begins with D. Um, I've learned it, that window of trauma and then you become discomfited.
Azra_Rahim: Yes. Yes.
Jane_Houng: I felt so discomforted. Um, mainly because I'd met people, I met people that I hadn't seen for 10 years. And they've also suffered the most appalling losses. And then, and then we saw each other again. And I, my, my brain couldn't kind of process it. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't prepared for the emotion that [00:28:00] that, that arose in me, you know, uh, as a result of that. Um, so, and I had to give the, I, I, I don't use, I don't use the F word.
Azra_Rahim: Oh, come on, Jane, do it, do it, you can do it, break free!
Jane_Houng: I have to stand up in front of these, you know. And tell my, well not tell a story, but just the opening address or presentation or whatever it was called. And, um, so it was very much speaking from the heart that got me through. Um, was it a bit garbled?
Azra_Rahim: No, it wasn't. It wasn't at all. Um, I think everyone in that room knew that you were digging deep. And that you were vulnerable and you were being brave and courageous and we were all there for you. Um.
Jane_Houng: I felt that.
Azra_Rahim: Yeah. And I, I could see that sort of that British English resolve to hold on to [00:29:00] your composure.
Jane_Houng: Stick up a little bit.
Azra_Rahim: Stick up a little bit all. Um, but. I think it was beautiful and I, uh, and I really, um, believe that I think you set the tone for the retreat because you are the leader, whether you, you know, want to acknowledge it or not, you are the leader and I think you You set the tone and you role modeled the, the, the vulnerability and the courage that is needed to actually do meaningful work while at the retreat, because if you're not willing to dig deep into messy emotions and wrestle with them, well, your words and your work, your writing work will be meaningless. It'll just be nonsensical shit, uh, that was cut and paste by, uh, it might as well, exactly. Exactly. It has no fucking meaning. And, and then, you know, relating it back to the verses from the Bhagavad Gita, there's no light. You're not bringing light forth from the darkness. And I think you did an exemplary [00:30:00] job. And I thank you for that. Because yeah, last night, the, the, the cohesion, the unity that you saw in that group would not have been possible if, if the, the, the precedent had been, had not been set in that first night. If there had been a different version of Jane who came on and
Jane_Houng: Cool, composed, I'm fine.
Azra_Rahim: Hi everybody. I was so glad to see.
Jane_Houng: I showed my vulnerability, didn't I?
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: And I showed how it, every day it's a challenge to move from suffering and, uh, to joy. And to a transformation
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: through loss.
Azra_Rahim: Through the pain
Jane_Houng: And the pain.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: Yes.
Azra_Rahim: Absolutely.
Jane_Houng: And then we moved on, I mentioned a few details about the charitable work I was doing, which includes distributing Becky's buttons in Lebanon, the country where Becky was killed, in order to raise awareness about sexual harassment. And there was some interesting discussion. Oh, it was question and answer at the end, [00:31:00] wasn't it? And then one of the participants was a man from Egypt. Who's come all the way to attend this workshop. Um, in other words, another person from the Middle East. Um, and he offered a very interesting comment. Yeah, and you did too, something that really made me think about, Um, it's not just cultural and because of patriarchy, that there are a lot of very dominant men, um, in Lebanon, let's say, but it's more than that. It's about control and power. What did you mean by that? Can you remember?
Azra_Rahim: Yes, I think I do. I think like any violent act, sexual assault, rape, really is about dominance. It's about establishing control and it's [00:32:00] about consciously willingly, uh, oppressing another human being. Because there's countless studies out there, loads of evidence that say men rape regardless of physical appearance, age, uh, regardless of how a woman is dressed, or her location. So it's not really about being enticed to rape. It's about the the existing mindset about wanting control, wanting domination, willing to oppress, and looking for the opportunity for it. So, it's true, uh, that rape exists everywhere in the world, globally. There's not a culture, there's not a society, there's not a country that doesn't have rape. There's not a country, there's not a society, there's not a culture that doesn't have sexual assault. Or the fucking motherfucking patriarchy. The whole world is run on patriarchy. And if [00:33:00] we could reverse that, if we could shift that, then you would have a whole different world order indeed. I mean, even the atrocities that we see, that are being carried out in Gaza, the decisions that Western governments are making, it's It's all about the fact that these are men in power who have never been held accountable and are pretty sure that they never will be held accountable. I mean, that is the basis for colonialism, that is the basis for genocide, and it is the basis for sexual assault in whatever form, whether it's It's just a wolf whistle, a bottom pinching incident, um, you know, ogling, fondling, to the explicit and horrific rape. It's just a spectrum, but that's the root cause of it. Sorry, I got a little hot under the collar there. Apologies to the listener.
Jane_Houng: You speak with great authority and, um, an insight, um. But are we going to see [00:34:00] some change, some fundamental shift in our lifetimes? Azra, what do you think? You see a you, right? You visionary.
Azra_Rahim: Yes. Um, I do want to add, that the insight that you see. The perceived expertise is not just book information. It's not just book learning that I am sharing with you. Having survived a war zone, having survived jumping from culture to culture, any woman can tell you that she has spent a lifetime being hyper vigilant, making sure that she's safe. Uh, whether it is turning on all the lights in the house when you first walk in, making sure you turn on the car lights before you get in, making sure that your keys are between your, uh, your fingers as you walk across campus or through the parking lot. This is not just me touting stuff that I've read in a book [00:35:00] or an article. Every single listener who is female, biologically identified or femme, however you want to frame it. can tell you that they have spent their lifetime ensuring their safety. And whether they're sexually assaulted or not is not a failure of their responsibility. It's not a failure of their ability to keep them safe. It is their bad luck. It is really their misfortune that somehow there was a predator who locked their
Jane_Houng: at that moment.
Azra_Rahim: Yes so,. This is a lived experience. You know, you may not speak the language I speak. You may not understand my values. You may not understand really anything about me or my choices in life. But if you're a woman, and I'm a woman, and I look across the train at you, this is something we understand. That we are racing across that platform, the train platform, when it comes to a full stop. We are running to a [00:36:00] place where there is light and we're pretending to not hurry because we do not want to be seen as weak or vulnerable, but we're hiring nonetheless. And this is something that unifies women globally. The thing that is really uplifting to me, the thing that is really, uh, that brings me a lot of hope is that the younger generation of women are not as cult, um. Ooh, what's the word? Motherfucking brainwashed. That's what I want to say. I was trying to be really intellectual and polite about it, and then I said, fuck it, say what you mean. And what I mean, we were fucking brainwashed, Jane. You and me and the generation before us, we wanted to be decent, reputable women who didn't cry wolf. All this motherfucking shit that we bought, which is all hogwash, right? But the newer generation, especially the generation of my younger sister, the, you know, the, um, I don't even know what they are, but you know, the 30 and younger crowd, they haven't bought this shit. They have no obligation, they don't [00:37:00] sense, uh, any obligation in themselves to be well mannered or keep the peace or make sure that the man or whoever is in authority feels comfortable. You see it in the way they're protesting, in the fact they're willing to break rules. So it gives me great hope. That in our lifetime there will be change. I don't know how it will come about. It always seems impossible till it's done Right. Mandela said this.
Jane_Houng: Yes.
Azra_Rahim: Right? So it's going to happen. We are already doing it and you're doing it. You are doing the work that a human being can possibly, you know accomplish in their time in 365 days a year you're doing all the work and you're lighting lights, right? I was lost really when you were when you found me I was in a transitional place but look you already made me so feral and so loud mouth and everybody all 27 of those people in that retreat in that writing barn right the second. Our lights [00:38:00] that you have lit our lamps that you have lit that'll go out into the world as ambassadors and they in turn will light lamps and it'll keep growing and growing and the younger generation, man, even some of the younger, um, folks in that writing room, they give me such hope.
Jane_Houng: Me too. Me too. And do you remember at the beginning, uh, before I started talking on that first night, I said, Oh, Excuse me if I, if, if I insult someone because of the gender fluidity. I mean, this is something that I'm not used to because I come from a very conservative, um, culture. I live in Hong Kong and, um, but the, do you think that's related to the, to the changes that need to be made. I'm not talking about sexuality.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: But what is it in America now? You know,
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: There are about six different pronouns and people have to kind of write which one you have to refer to [00:39:00] them to. I mean, why, why is that? Why is that happening in America, Azra?
Azra_Rahim: I think people are understanding that they get to define their entirety, uh, uh, their lives, their sexuality, their occupation. Uh, I think COVID actually helped liberate some of that. I really do feel like, you know, we, another thing that I had bought into is that you needed to have this sort of reputable eight to five kind of job. You know, you had to be a clinician, you had to do this, and you had to have a postgraduate degree. Turns out it's all motherfucking bullshit. What you want is a peaceful content life, right? Um, and if you need to make money, you can just make money doing gigs. You can Uber, you can do whatever you can, you know, learn to Instagram, you can put up TikTok videos. There's a woman who makes TikTok videos whose income rivals the income of her cardiologist husband. So [00:40:00] the, the, the emphasis that was placed on being reputable and having a reputable job and having clearly defined roles.
Jane_Houng: It's very fluid at the moment.
Azra_Rahim: It's very fluid gender based shit. No longer works. Nobody wants it and There is individualistic expression of people, whether it's their sexuality or, uh, whatever. And I think this plays into dismantling patriarchy. I think it goes and works into dismantling sexual predatorship. Uh, really, I think the repercussions are far, far, far, far away.
Jane_Houng: They're positive.
Azra_Rahim: They're positive, yes.
Jane_Houng: Social media, the universality of the internet.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: Very powerful.
Azra_Rahim: Yes, because, because, uh, part of any battle is finding the language, having the language to say, listen, you are in my personal space. Listen, uh, I don't prefer, uh, the, you look at me in that way. Hey, listen, whatever it is. These kids already have [00:41:00] the language, they have the language to stand their ground, they have, uh, the language to rebut and retort to people who might throw accusations that, that way. And in that way, they're very well equipped. Far more equipped than I ever was at their age.
Jane_Houng: And certainly me too. I reach out to young people. They do give me hope. And this idea of, that we are writing for children.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: Yes, never mind the generation, well, below me. But, um, it's it's a way. It could possibly lead to a shift, a significant shift, but you have to go step at a time. Step at a time, right?
Azra_Rahim: Yeah. It's coming. It's coming. The change is coming. I can feel it in the wind.
Jane_Houng: Azra, what are you doing now? Yourself? This is your last question.
Azra_Rahim: Okay alright. Um, I'm doing research to make money. I'm learning from the kids. I can do gig economy, right? Um, I'm, I was going to [00:42:00] say I'm fast and quick and nimble on my feet. Well, probably not as fast and nimble and quick on my feet as the kids, but I'm also learning, right? So while I actually figure out what I want to do with my writing and establish myself as an author. Um, I have been taking classes, attending retreats like the Rebecca Dykes, uh, retreat, building my toolkit, really. And while I do it to stay afloat financially, I've been doing research and I have, I've chosen not to do an eight to five kind of a job because once you're there, you don't have time left for anything else. So So to give myself flexibility and the ability to experiment and discover, I'm just doing contract jobs right now. So it keeps me afloat just barely.
Jane_Houng: Where do you live?
Azra_Rahim: I live in Seattle, Washington.
Jane_Houng: Oh, wow. You've come all the way from the other.
Azra_Rahim: Yes, yes, yes. I would go anywhere in the world. Remember we're going to do a retreat somewhere in the Middle East, right? Maybe Beirut. Inshallah.
Jane_Houng: Inshallah. I think you, yes, I think you'll have a major [00:43:00] role there. You'll be the leading panelist. I don't know about that, but I'll certainly be there in attendance. Yes. If I can, absolutely. Yeah. Well, let's see. Let's see. Let's go with the flow, the river of life and all that.
Azra_Rahim: Yes.
Jane_Houng: Um, I wish you every success, Azra, in your, um, in your book writing. You have such an important story to tell. You are such a vibrant voice, to me, of hope. Um, so thank you very much indeed for being here, and thank you so very much for your interest in Rebecca Dyke's writers, and coming on Mending Lives.
Azra_Rahim: Oh, my God, Jane. You, you humble me. It is my honor to be part of Rebecca Dykes, without a doubt. And I'm so honored that you made time for me on your podcast, Mending Lives, because indeed, that's what we're doing. We're writing to mend our lives. So thank you. Thank you for having me on.
Jane_Houng: [00:44:00] So this is what happened after the recording. On the penultimate evening of the Rebecca Dyke's writer's retreat, Asra read a hilarious piece at a group reading which involved addressing her breasts by name. I went to bed laughing. But overnight a horrible thought crept into my mind. Was it really fictional? I didn't have time to dwell on this because that final morning we were all busy saying our goodbyes and rushing to the airport. At the check in, I overheard Heather and Bethany chatting, and my worst fears were confirmed. Dearest Azra, the heart and soul of the weekend, the cracker of jokes, dancer, singer, reciter of exquisite poetry, the offerer of support when it was needed was due to have major surgery in the next few [00:45:00] days, for, well, you can probably guess. I can tell you I swore then, and have been swearing ever since. Who knows what is round the corner? You may like to wonder why she withheld the information from me. Enjoy your lives, dear listeners, while you are fit and well, and be kind.
Thanks again for listening to Mending Lives with me, Jane Houng. It was produced by Brian Hou. You can find relevant links to this show in the comments section. I would not, could not, be doing this without many people's support and encouragement. So until next time, [00:46:00] goodbye.