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Ecommerce on Tap is a world where Supply Chain meets storytelling. Join Nathan Resnick and Aaron Alpeter each week as they offer insights into the backend of successful businesses. Brought to you by Sourcify and Izba Consulting!
Aaron Alpeter (00:00)
I would be surprised if Unilever's Health and Wellness Division doesn't acquire Grüns.
This is Unilever health and wellness written all over it.
Aaron Alpeter (00:13)
Welcome back to Ecommerce on Tap, brought to you by Sourcify and Izba. I'm your host, Aaron Alpeter. For those joining for the first time, Ecommerce on Tap is where we take a well-known, typically venture-backed company, we tell their founding story, reverse engineer their supply chain, and talk about their exit potential And speaking of exit potential, we're re-releasing our episode on Grüns today. We originally recorded this conversation in November of 2025.
we really were impressed by their operational rigor and their category leadership as key differentiators. Well, in
2026, Unilever acquired them for $1.2 billion. Turns out that we were onto something. As you listen to the episode, I we basically called this as this is the most natural place for Grüns to land.
So with that, let's get into it.
Nathan Resnick (00:58)
Yeah, today we're covering Grüns. I always pronounce it Grüns and Aaron has taught me a bit about the German language and how Grüns is technically pronounced. And as we'll dive into their story and their founder, see that, you know, the founder kind of has a bit of a background in Germany. So, you know, that's kind of how the name came to be is Grüns actually means greens in the kind of, is it in the German language? Is that right, Aaron?
Aaron Alpeter (01:23)
Yeah,
German and Swedish, honestly. So yeah.
Nathan Resnick (01:27)
There you go. So that's a fun fact of the day because everyone I've heard pronounce it over here is always like grüns, grüns, know, their growth is crazy. But now we know for a fact it is grüns and it means greens in the German language.
Aaron Alpeter (01:41)
Grüns kind of sounds like something that you don't want to have if you take something that's not good for you. Grüns sounds a little bit more appetizing.
Nathan Resnick (01:45)
Yeah.
I think what's pretty incredible about Greens and this whole kind green space is when people think about green powder and just this kind of part of the supplement industry, typically, I think, and I think most people think of AG1, right? Because they've just done such a good job executing here, but Grüns has kind of really become this almost like...
Uncovered giant that I think more people have now realized how big they are and what they did is just kind of take green You know supplements and make them into a really healthy gummy, right? And I think in general most people especially kids prefer, you know gummies over powders and so I think on the surface level it makes a lot of sense of their
their execution, right? They kind of just made AG1 but in a truable form. And their growth has just been really phenomenal, really incredible. And I think before we dive in specifically to their story, I think we should talk about gummies because there is some pretty interesting tidbits from the history of gummies, right?
Aaron Alpeter (02:54)
Yeah, completely. You know, it's kind of this thing back and forth where is it a candy? Is it a supplement? I mean, there's all these things going back and forth. But the concept of gummy candy goes back to the early 20th century in Germany. And I went through and I'm doing some very scientific research. Haribo ⁓ is the original OG ⁓ gummy manufacturer. And they started in the 1920s. And this was seen as a candy.
up until the 1990s. so regardless of the brand, if you had a gummy, a fruit snack, whatever, you associate that with candy. And that was the way things worked until the 1990s when the first gummy supplements were introduced. And these functional gummies, as we know them today, were first commercialized in the US. And the first brand was called Yummy Bears, which was introduced in 1995 by Hero Nutritionals. And it was aimed at children.
and you saw things where like Disney started to license vitamins and the Flintstones, I think you might remember those like Flintstone kids things, the chewables, they transitioned to gummies. these were basically the market was like very simple multivitamins for kids, aged two to 12. And the insight was pretty straightforward. ⁓ Kids hated swallowing pills and the parents wanted something that was more palatable and less likely to cause a meltdown.
As the parent of young children today, those meltdowns are awful. And so like, you know, anything you can do to avoid them and still do what you're supposed to do is helpful. And you know, kids thought this was a pretty good deal for them as well, because they thought that this was candy and the candy texture made it feel like they were getting a treat. And so this was a really good thing when it went all the way around. However, parents like them and kids like them, pediatricians were really split in terms of were these actually helpful or not.
And because of the format, the doses were generally very, very low. And they were often missing core vitamins like iron or calcium due to some of the limitations with the gummy format. And a lot of people saw them as nutritional insurance, but they weren't really seen as clinical strength supplements. And the biggest concern from pediatricians was the sugar. I mean, let's face it, these early gummies were essentially fruit snacks with some vitamins included.
And so there's this question of like, is this candy dressed up as healthcare or is this actually something that's helpful? even parents were worried to some degree because kids thought this was candy and their parents, so they kind of kept over consuming and eating these sorts of things. I think where the industry was in the late nineties was just this, this thought that, you know, behavioral compliance, getting people to want to take things on a daily basis, that was better than any of the chemistry.
And so, you know, kids were actually eating the vitamin and it was a win-win, even if it wasn't perfect.
Nathan Resnick (05:40)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really powerful insight, right? Because most people in general would probably prefer to take a gummy versus a pill or, you know, powder. And I think that's kind of, you know, what made gummies this unstoppable format in terms of just how it's become kind of so popular across, you know, modern culture. Like, hey, you know, would you prefer to be prescribed pills or gummies or powders? You know, what kind of form of consumption do you prefer?
And I would think that most people definitely don't want a pill. Maybe it'll accept the powder, but gummy in general just kind of, like you said, almost has this candy-like feel or texture, right?
Aaron Alpeter (06:22)
Yeah, you associate it with with candy and it turns out that, you know, adults just happen to be children with, with a credit cards and they hate taking pills as well. And it was kind of nice. was nice little dopamine hit in the morning, ⁓ as part of their morning routine. And it was really only a matter of time until the children that grew up taking gummies as quote unquote healthcare became adults and wanted this as well. And so you saw companies like vitafusion, nature made eventually Olly enter into the whole host of categories. Like.
multivitamins, fish oil, ⁓ know, hair, skin, nail formulations. ⁓ You see these a lot like sleep with melatonin or immunity, like the vitamin C sort of, of, gummies. And Olly was really the winner here in this, in the second wave. They came to market in 2014 and built a supplement brand around design, taste, and simplicity. It really wasn't about having the most forward leaning science in terms of gummies. And they sold for hundreds of millions of dollars to Unilever as a result.
And in terms of efficacy, these gummies were seen as a little bit more legitimate than the kids version. But the dose was limited by the gummy size and the formulation constraints. you look at beauty formula formulas took off because consumers believed in biotin, even if the evidence was mixed and these sleep and mood gummies gained traction because melatonin and botanicals fit well into the matrix or the structure of a gummy. so these early gummies still suffered from the perception of high sugar content.
and high calories and offered an incomplete nutrient profile compared to pills. you know, I think it's important to note that like vitamins degrade faster in gummies and most nutritionists saw them as better for you candies and not serious supplements.
Nathan Resnick (08:06)
Yeah, I mean, that's a great summary in terms of where gummi format was through 2020. And I mean, think it was kind of this perception of, is it a treat candy as opposed to kind of this key ⁓ supplement type of format that now both kids and adults enjoy more than pills, right? And so it just seems like these are the ones that they're more likely to take in terms of, if you've got these options, you're going to choose a gummy.
Aaron Alpeter (08:35)
You're absolutely right. And gummies have always sat as a format on the fault line of, know, these are less dense, less stable, more sugar, but people dramatically prefer them. And so we'll kind of dive in a little bit more into the Grune story and how they changed the paradigm of what gummies could actually deliver. But before we that, we've got to talk about the founder.
Nathan Resnick (08:55)
Yeah, yeah, totally. mean, know, grüns is kind of this unique dynamic in Janis of the founder, Chad Janis is definitely unlike most founders we profile on e-commerce on top, right? If you think about our past episodes, a lot of our founders kind of either have this major health scare that provides this unique insight and, it goes on to really have a kind of passion driven approach to their business or they
spend multiple years backpacking through Asia and, design a new product based on that experience. But, Chad, he actually, attended BYU right here in Utah, then went on to Stanford Business School. And really his experience and training came from, being a founder and then also working ⁓ in a VC firm, right? And so he started his first company in 2017. It was called Credit Cash, which is basically like a kayak.
for free flight, but leveraging redemption points across different loyalty programs. And he did that for two years before joining Summit Partners, getting a firsthand experience of the high growth of some of these.
major DTC brands that Summit was an investor in like Solo Stove, Chubbies, Brooklyn and Ruggable and Dr. Squatch. And so for most of those companies, he was a board observer, you know, really seeing their growth firsthand and understanding, okay, how are these companies getting to such scale so quickly? And, you know, I think that it seems from his experience, just having that firsthand perspective, it kind of
I think gave him that founder of itch of like, Hey, you know, I've got to find a category that I can innovate in that has a large TAM that I really think I can, build a strong business in, right.
Aaron Alpeter (10:36)
Yeah, I think having that front seat that you're talking about is just an amazing laboratory.
Nathan Resnick (10:41)
Yeah,
I think he kind of pulled out some key elements that he identified in the most explosive companies that Summit Partners was working with, right? And I think in general, he saw a few things, they focused on everyday pain points,
he looked at the branding and marketing behind these companies and how they really kind of intertwine virality into their campaigns and what they did from that front. And, he had this experience of taking cream powders every morning in grad school while at Stanford. And within a few days, he mentioned that he became frustrated by the taste and the sediment. And he, begun thinking like there must be a better way to do this. And so he eventually.
started around supplements and his core insight was that compliance matters more than perfection, that people won't just take it daily because it's messy or unpleasant even if it's the best formula, right? And so I think he's realizing like, hey, the actual process in which you take this supplement is almost more important than what's inside that supplement, which sounds a little counterintuitive if you think about supplements. Generally you want the highest quality supplement, but...
At the of the day, if it's a burden to take, you're probably not as likely to take it every single day, right? And I think that's really kind of what's nice about this technology that I realized around Gummi is that, you know, they had matured to a point where a company like Boons could be created here, right?
Aaron Alpeter (12:05)
Yeah, and I think we should take a step back and dig into some of the actual mechanics of gummy manufacturing. You know, we had a couple of comments from people like, hey, you guys are supply chain people. You're talking a lot about branding and finance. Well, this is the supply chain episode you've been waiting for. And I think that when you take a look at supplements or the beauty industry in general, there's some key components that go into making a gummy. The first and most obvious is you have to have a base. This is what gives it its shape. It's what holds the structure. It holds all the active ingredients.
And traditionally these have been made with gelatin. A gelatin is the exact same stuff that goes into Jell-O. And you would add any sweeteners, waters, or other binders in there that help determine how chewy or soft the gummy was actually going to be. And the base is actually extremely important because even though it doesn't have a whole lot of nutritional value to it, the complexity of the base determines how much room you have left in the gummy to put other things in there.
And those other things are really the active ingredients. So this can be anything from vitamins or minerals, botanicals, mushrooms, CBD, et cetera. And the challenge is that most actives don't play nicely with heat, pH, each other, or just plain taste bad. And so these are some of the big limiting factors that gummies have had for the first 70 years. Once you have your bases and your actives, you mix them together. actually heat the mixture until you reach what's called the right solids content.
That's basically how much of the good stuff is in the gummy. And you want to make sure it's equally dispersed throughout the mixture so you don't have all of one thing and a couple of them, just the base and a couple of the other gummies. If the mixture is too hot or too wet, the actives will actually break down, meaning that it won't be helpful at all. It's just basically just candy at that point. And if it's too cold, it won't set. It'll be very runny.
Once you have things mixed, you deposit the warm slurry into thousands of small molds. So again, think about the little bears that you used to seeing. And you really want to make sure that each gummy has the same dose of the actives. Once they get cooled, they firm up. And then typically you coat them with something so they don't stick together when they're in the bag.
Nathan Resnick (14:10)
Makes lot of sense, mean, it really sounds very similar to how jello or candy would be made. I is that far off in terms of the process?
Aaron Alpeter (14:21)
It's pretty close. I mean, that's really how it's been for the longest time. the first era of these supplement gummies in the 1990s were really just that. It was candies and vitamins. And this was because gelatin was the universal base. there are some properties about gelatin that just make it difficult for supplements. The first is that it has a very low heat tolerance and low pH stability, which means that only very basic vitamins can be added in small doses. So think
vitamin A, vitamin C, DE. If you try to add nutrient dense ingredients like cream powders or probiotics or adaptogens, minerals, they either get destroyed in the gel, ⁓ they tasted terrible or they precipitate out. And so these gummy vitamins early on were essentially just fortified candy with trace nutrients. And so you think about like the pediatrician saying, hey, I don't know if this is actually helpful or not. It's true, because we were just feeding kids candy. ⁓ But in the 2000s, the base format
which was still primarily gelatin, started to change and people began to experiment with pectin. And ⁓ pectin has allowed for better flavor systems to come on board. You have more stable sweeteners and binders and early microencapsulation active ingredients. And this allows you to start playing with some of the larger vitamin doses. And so you can fit more of the active stuff ⁓ into the gummy. And there are simple ingredients like melatonin or biotin or vitamin C.
that are now available in a gummy format. And this is really the insight that led Oli launch in 2014. They had great branding, but they didn't really have the great gummy chemistry that we see later to support where they wanted to be. And so their insight was, let's just treat supplements like a beauty product and use it all the time. And then you get to the 2010s and there were three main breakthroughs that advanced the chemistry of gummies. The first was that pectin.
went from being an experiment to really the standard in terms of bases. And again, this allowed you to have higher heat tolerances and broader pH ranges. You could position it as vegan or vegetarian, and it just was held more moisture overall. And with pectin, you can start to put earthy or grassy ingredients in the gummies. And you did this without them dissolving the gel or turning into a sludge. The second big breakthrough was the process of microencapsulation.
And this allows manufacturers to basically ⁓ take the molecule and put something else around it so that you can hide the taste of really bitter ingredients, or you can control for time release so that things hit your stomach and then are released over time versus flooding all at once. And this allowed manufacturers to add in minerals and botanical extracts and probiotics and things like that. And with this, you start getting more more sophistication in terms of depositing equipment. People are able to add these active ingredients.
In mass you able to take the solid concentrate which again is is the good stuff that goes in the gummy from 65 % all the way up to 82 % So now it's just a better vehicle to do these these nutrients And then lastly in like the 2010s early 2020s these functional gummies really became a validated format with a couple other breakthroughs The first was that manufacturers were able to create really low sugar matrices and sugar substitutes and this allowed them take an enormous amount of sugar out of the
what was candy before and taking it out was helpful from a health perspective, but it also made room for them to put in more active ingredients. And so now you can look at 50 to 60 nutritional actives that are in a gummy compared to just a dozen a few years ago. Again, more steps forward in flavor masking and then the co-manufacturing ecosystem really matured in about the 2018 timeframe where up until 2018, if you wanted to produce a gummy, you were talking to a company that
produced candy as well as supplements. And starting in 2018, you start to see companies that are only focused on gummy supplements come out. And these are like a new class of world-class manufacturers that allow you to do things like layered gummies, low temperature depositing, process stability, all sorts of really sophisticated things that are more common with pharmaceuticals than candy production.
Nathan Resnick (18:34)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's really kind of the catalyst that enabled Grüns to manufacture its products with these contract manufacturers, right? mean, Chad brought this to market at a time where it just kind of became possible to do so, right? And so kind of his initial steps were exploring, you know, 20 plus contract manufacturers through 2022 to understand, you know, what was possible, what is possible.
And, you know, he learned that most contract manufacturers are primarily focused on single benefit gummies. you think like sleep or beauty or immunity and not, you know, multi-ingredient blends. you know, eventually over time, he narrowed his kind of field of sight to manufacturers that could handle high active formulas and run kind of these low sugar production runs while maintaining these flavor profiles and, you know, scale.
to ⁓ a ton of volume. And so I think like a lot of the manufacturing kind of discoveries that we've covered of founders going through this process on e-commerce on tap, it takes a ton of trial and error. mean, the initial kind of tests and the initial batches of grunts didn't pass these stability tests where they had texture issues. And so you can imagine putting yourself in Chad's shoes thinking, hey, I want to bring this, you
Green's supplement as gum a gummy form to market and he had to literally go through 20 plus contract manufacturers that were already producing gummies but then had to narrow them down to understand okay you know which contract manufacturers can actually produce this you know specialized type of gummy with high active formulas and then you know really understand and try to dive into shelf life which is a huge point for retail distribution right which we'll see there
know, thousands of stores across the country and the melting issues as you're shipping. You know, you think you're shipping your product across Arizona. Well, good luck if you haven't faced those, those melting issues, right? And that's a huge part of gummy manufacturing that he had to really uncover for himself, right? And at the same time that he's learning the manufacturing process and becoming, really an expert in gummy manufacturing, he's also building his team.
And, kind of stays primarily through his Stanford network to kind of find, not only really team members, but testers, advisors, and investors. And, he finds key hires that focus on ops and supply chain and branding. And, he says that, you know, in his Stanford business school class, about 25 % of his class tested early versions and their feedback really shaped the flavor profile and texture.
⁓ And I think, one key insight that he sees that they have is rather than trying, one massive super gummy, they can split the dosage by telling people to take, six or eight gummies instead of, one or two to get the recommended dosage. mean, kind of seems fun to have more gummies and less, right?
Aaron Alpeter (21:37)
Yeah, and it's actually really smart because if you think about one of the major issues that people had with gummies in the fact, it's just, I can't fit all this stuff in there. And so, you know, I guess like maybe they could have made like an apple sized gummy, but that would be just kind of weird. But you say, hey, take eight of these and you know, if it feels like candy, why not? Why do they settle on the name Grüns?
Nathan Resnick (22:00)
Yeah, so Grooves means greens in lot of the kind of German and Scandinavian languages. In Chad, I spent two years in Germany doing volunteer work and had to become fluent in German, which is probably top of mind as he was exploring a company name.
And so I think it has this kind of visual identity and the name ties directly to the category without being kind of too generic. ⁓ And it's definitely instantly recognizable, right? It's, know, groomed and it's got the kind of two dots above the U for a little bit of visualization for those that are listening and not familiar with the brand.
And I would say it is pronounced, you can pronounce it pretty easily, but I most people will say grüns. You know, I said grüns before my German lesson. So, you know, it's definitely different than, know, AG1 or Bloom or Olli. But, you know, I think with all of this research and all the testing, it gets us to this point in 2023 when the brand finally launched. What does that launch look like?
Aaron Alpeter (22:57)
Yeah, it is really something where they went to market pretty much as soon as they could, meaning from a technology perspective, nobody else was doing this. And they had a very bold promise, and that was to take the most comprehensive ⁓ greens or functional nutrition stack out there and pack it into a gummy. And they really differentiated themselves from AG1 and other powders, and from other gummy vitamin brands, which only had a few actives. And they wanted to give you the benefit of
of what many other brands were offering without messy powders or pills. And they wanted the consumer to really look forward to taking this. mean, again, having taken AG1 and having eaten gummy bears, I know that there's one that is much more ⁓ enjoyable than the other. Although I know that AG1 is good for me. ⁓ But they launched in May of 23 as a D2C only brand and they were offering some subscriptions, but they only had a single hero SKU. And that was a grab and go snack pack.
And each pack contained eight gummies and it had like, was like a mixed berry type of flavor. And the core formulation was 60 whole food ingredients, vitamins, A to Z, ⁓ greens, fruits, vegetables, adaptogens, mushrooms, and a prebiotic fiber. And just like AG1, ⁓ it was a product with a really big promise. You know, take this and it'll help solve or fill in all the nutritional gaps that you have. And they priced it about 80 bucks for a 28 day supply, which was competitive with AG1.
And yeah, that's what they launched with and kind of went to market pretty quickly.
Nathan Resnick (24:32)
Yeah, I mean, I think it kind of is this interesting dynamic, right? Because you've got this core formula that people know AG1 for and now runs launches, obviously in this gummy format. And I think despite being in market, they continue to iterate on their product quite a bit in the first year. And I think that's kind of a key point for founders to take note of, of like, hey, don't wait till your product is completely perfect. Go to market, get feedback, iterate. And that's really what they did here because
they switched to the methylated minerals to approve bioavailability in their gummies, right? They reworked kind of the greens blend to improve taste and nutrient stability. And they adjusted sweetener systems to support both low sugar and sugar-free SKUs. And so they kind of continue to, you know, optimize like serving size and portion packaging and all of this through their first year. That I think is a key point for founders, right? Because so many people wait too long to launch.
And like in general, your product's never going to be perfect. You should always be having this, you know, a constant customer feedback loop. And I think that's what they did really well on in the first year of, you know, gathered feedback from their customers to understand how can we improve our product? And it shows, right? Because, you know, they, their growth speaks for itself.
Aaron Alpeter (25:55)
Yeah, and I think that there's this constant tension between, you know, perfect versus good enough. And I think that the key thing here is, is what Grüns appeared to do was they put forward their best foot, but they also, you know, were nimble enough and, you know, had low enough inventory and, and starting to partners to say, we're going to make this better. We're gonna take your feedback and we're gonna look at this. And, that's really the name of the game here is
Yeah. Get to market with something you think is good and provides value today, but also be really flexible and get going. Whether you're building a tech product, you need to make sure you've got plenty of dev budget available to iterate and rebuild the product in that first year. Um, or, you're launching a product, like a actual physical good. I think it's so important that I, you don't, you're not sitting on two years worth of inventory at launch. Like it's, it's better to stock out. It's better to be lower because you're able to iterate that way.
Nathan Resnick (26:46)
Yeah. I mean, unlike AG1, they decided to launch other products and product lines pretty quickly, right? So late 2023, they launched the sugar-free daily gummy. know, low sugar was previously the default. In 2024, they launched the Grüns Cubs, which I think is great branding. It's, you know, their kids line. And those were kind of snack packs that contained four gummies per day and had this kind of
tangy fruit and softer chew. And they also reduce the greens blend in that product and lowered kind of the vitamin dosage, of course, for kids. ⁓ And I think kids, this category is, know, in terms of like,
Supplement gummies is only a category that all is dominated. So this is definitely a strategic move on their end and then late 24 and 25 they introduced multi-week pouches as well as you know, three pack or six pack bundles to be optimized for their DTC subscription business and so they also then expanded into other flavors like mixed berry Watermelon berry tropical punch and you know, these are high active supplement gummy or gummy is not
you know, not candy, right? But the more flavors you add, the more complex the stability becomes, you know, and there's obviously supply chain variability here as well. And so I think it's kind of a key point that they have these core product lines, but they also expanded flavors. It's drastically different than AG1's strategy, which just recently expanded into new product lines. So, I mean, it's rumored that they're exploring additional categories such as, you know, energy gummy, immunity gummily.
and a sleep gummy. And I think, you know, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, hats off to their execution there.
Aaron Alpeter (28:28)
Yeah, they really
seem like they are working and innovating with a huge degree of urgency despite all the growth that they have. What have been the results so far? I think they've been pretty good from what we saw.
Nathan Resnick (28:41)
Yeah, I mean, it's honestly really, really amazing to see their execution here. So, um, I mean, their, their growth in terms of revenue, I'll just start with that because I think it's pretty mind blowing for people that aren't aware with the brand. Um, in May, 2025, they reportedly shipped 4 million gummies per day across all their channels. I mean, imagine that 4 million gummies a day and they reached over a hundred million in ARR and raised the $35 million Series B at a $500 million valuation. And so.
you know, this kind of goes in terms of fundraising from like a pre seed in August 23 to a $6 million seed in February 24 to a $10 million series A in May 25 and then a $35 million series B in May. So, I mean, now they're throughout Sprouts, which they launched in December 24, they're in over 1,600 target stores that they launched in February 25 and they're in 1,900 Walmart stores in April 25. And so, I mean,
It almost seems like they caught lightning in a bottle, right? Because literally go from like just starting and well, just formulating in 22 to launching in 23 to just having this like incredible growth curve. mean, how much of it was around kind of the technology manufacturing versus the branding versus, you know, Chad's experience, know, at Summit Partners, I mean, versus consumer insight. I mean, it's just really remarkable to see this type of growth.
Aaron Alpeter (30:09)
Yeah, I mean the pace of the fundraising is really what got me. if Crunchbase and PitchBook are correct, there were only two months between a $10 million Series A and a $35 million Series B. Which, you know, like I don't know how that conversation goes where the money basically hits your account and then you're like, all right, well, I'm gonna keep fundraising. I think that Chad's background in deploying VC and having these connections and being able to
really show them exactly why this makes sense and why this is a good move for their portfolio with something that is, you you can't underestimate. I mean, just the fact that he's able to speak the investor's language, like, yeah, this is great. Like, let's keep doing this is really good. I think that there's also an element here where there's really just this sense of urgency that they've got. And I think that,
this technology has barely come online and they were really the first one to take advantage of it in a major way. And that sense of urgency is so interesting. And I think the difference between, AG1 kind of saying, Hey, we're going to have one product and just, we'll be on version 15 of it, you know, 15 years in, uh, is, is, is one way to do it. And they've built a wonderful business as a result of that. Uh, but these guys were saying, Hey, we want to own all of gummies and we want to kind of expand as much as we can, as opposed to just having, uh, one hero product.
Nathan Resnick (31:31)
And I think it's like one of those businesses where you're like, who are all these customers, right? And it's just pretty incredible to see in terms of their numbers. ⁓ cause I think with some of the other supplement brands or beauty brands that we've covered, like
I have friends or friends of friends, or I've personally tried them, whatever it may be. And here I feel like their market penetration is almost like just starting in some sense. to be...
Aaron Alpeter (31:53)
Yeah.
Nathan Resnick (31:55)
so confident in your numbers that early on and this quickly is really impressive for I think any brand, right? Because I'm sure they're doing some sort of formula around CAC and LTV and the payback period there. And it just is really impressive to see and to have that confidence to go out and execute like this.
Aaron Alpeter (32:15)
Yeah, you bring up a really good point there. And I'm curious how many of our listeners here have tried grüns. So, you know, it could be that you and I are just the laggards and we haven't done it yet. But do you think that there is risk here to the business of being just so new? And, you know, if it all if it is just like the VC echo chamber that's buying these things, is that a durable business or, you is the fact that they're at the beginning of their market penetration, more of a risk or more of a plus in your opinion?
Nathan Resnick (32:45)
Yeah, think it's an opportunity, their distribution is super strong and it's only in the US right now, So I think if we look forward here, there's definitely more meat on the bone and that they're still growing quickly, So they can start international sales. Probably Canada is an easy next step for them. ⁓ They've grown pretty aggressively across channels, which is good to see, right? You most people start with one channel and slowly expand, but they've gotten pretty aggressive across channels.
And I think the brand is gaining some attention, right? It's definitely not mainstream yet, but I could definitely see in the next two years becoming mainstream. I I actually bet two, three years they're going have a Super Bowl commercial. So let's see if that happens. ⁓ But I think the plan is definitely to max out their US distribution network before looking to go international. And obviously they still have a ton of untapped market potential here state side.
You know, they've got kind of the compliance and regulation figured out here and the overall, you know system to scale So I think probably they'll expand into other retail partners like CVS and Walgreens Definitely more types of skews you think about, know, their product catalog right now They definitely kind of already hinted that they're gonna do, you know an energy gummy and immunity And continue to expand flavor. So I think in general they're in a really strong position to grow right now
And they obviously have the funding to execute on that plan.
Aaron Alpeter (34:10)
Yeah, I think you're right. And, you know, one of the challenges with supplements is that it's so easy to start a brand in the U.S. because the regulatory framework is pretty loose, if you want to call it that.
we dove into that pretty deeply in our kickoff episode. But expanding into other countries, there's just a higher regulatory burden. Doesn't mean they can't do it. It's just going to be more difficult. So I think you're absolutely right that they will probably just focus on the U.S. for
as as they possibly can. And then when it's time to expand internationally, that's when they'll probably look at saying, you the time is right for an acquisition. You know, I've thought about this a little bit as well. I mean, do you have any initial thoughts on, you know, who the acquirers could be?
Nathan Resnick (34:53)
Yeah, it's a question. I feel like on this trajectory and maybe with the IPO market opening up, I feel like in the next two or three years, they could even go public. they have that option in terms of acquirers. there's definitely kind of that dynamic of, the liquid IV acquisition and OLLY and kind of Unilever's health and wellness division here that probably is keeping a close eye on on grüns What kind of caught your eye in terms of
strategic acquisitions that would make sense.
Aaron Alpeter (35:21)
Yeah, I mean, I look
at this and I would be surprised if Unilever's Health and Wellness Division doesn't acquire Grüns. I mean, they bought Olly, Liquid IV, Nutriful, Smarty Pants. Like they've been very active in the gummy space from an acquisition point of view. And they have a really good track record of growing these businesses. With the exception of Olly, which is, know, Grüns is kind of eating their lunch. They've done really, really well. And they love taking really strong brands and target and adding them into retail with
Target and Walmart and things like that. I think if you had to broaden the aperture a little bit I think there's a couple of other companies who could make sense. The first one comes to mind is is Pharmavite ⁓ They make the nature's made ⁓ vitamin category Which is like the number one vitamin in Costco and just in the country They're really interested in younger brand-led assets that and they think that you know Maybe moving into functional gummies would be would be a pretty good move
And they have a lot of manufacturing expertise and scale. So I could see this something where they say, hey, we can do this, we can bring it in house and we'll have this technology. ⁓ Nestle is also an interesting one. They've been getting into things like beverages and powders and bars and pills, but they don't really have a hero gummy brand. And so they generally want to expand into wellness and so grüns could fit well with the Nestle.
Bayer owns One a Day and Flintstones. These are more legacy brands. And so this could be a really good halo brand in a new format and something that's a little bit more youthful and gen Z. Church and Dwight has VitaFusion, which is really one of the OG gummy vitamin businesses. But they're more mass as opposed to premium. And so if they were to look at it, then perhaps they say, okay, this is how we're gonna premiumize our portfolio so we're gonna grow. But to me, I come back and I'm like, this is...
This is Unilever health and wellness written all over it.
Nathan Resnick (37:17)
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, what kind of outcome do you think they should be expecting? Right. And what do you think the timeline is for that potentially?
Aaron Alpeter (37:24)
Yeah, it's a good question. think in terms of timeline, I would do exactly what you said where they should focus on maxing out their US distribution first, which they've probably got two to four years to be able to do that with their velocity. If you look at some of the public data that we know about the other Unilever acquisitions, they paid roughly four to five X for smarty pants. Liquid IV was a $600 million valuation on like 100.
to 120 million in valuation. Nutrafol is a billion dollar valuation on 200 million revenue. And so if you look at this and say, okay, let's assume it's a two and a half to four X, you know, multiple. If they sold today, it's probably a 300 to $700 million sale. I think if they can grow to 250 to 350 million revenue, they're looking at 800 million to 1.4 billion.
And yeah, if they unlock Costco or expand the SKU set into sleep immunity energy stuff like that, this could be a $1.5 billion exit pretty reasonably.
Nathan Resnick (38:25)
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty clear from, just the story that Chad was definitely focused on disrupting this category and competing with AG1, which has done more for the supplement category than I think any other company out there. mean, let's just real quickly put ourselves in AG1 shoes, right? If I'm on the team at AG1 and I'm listening to this and seeing this story unfold, how do I feel? And like,
Yeah, did AG1 miss the boat here, AG1 could still release a gummy format and compete, right? How do you feel if you're in AG1 shoes hearing this and seeing this unfold?
Aaron Alpeter (39:04)
Yeah, I mean the last couple episodes we've we've kind of picked on AG one a little bit. You know there was bloom nutrition, you know becoming big because they they weren't fast enough getting into Amazon and and owning that traffic. This is another example of a new format and I'm sure they had the consumer complaints or the consumer feedback says hey I just I don't like the mess. I don't like the taste things like that. So I can't fault anybody for running a substantial nine figure business because you have to be doing more things right.
than wrong in order to have that kind of business. ⁓ But I also think that it's possible that they were so focused on just the one note that played it over and over again that they didn't invest in any R&D or trying things, doing things like that. ⁓ I do think that the book is not finished on AG1. And so they've done one thing that nobody else has done where they've built a synonymous ⁓ greens nutrient
brand. And so there's a real opportunity for AG1 to become a master brand and to be in different channels like retail and Amazon to be expanding into other formats like like gummies. And so I would encourage them to do that quite a bit because yes, they they own the green powders market on DTC and podcast today. They don't own it on Amazon and they don't own the gummy piece which looks like it's growing super quickly and so
I think that if I were them, I would say I would take the optimistic point of view and say, hey, look, we've had other competitors that have proven out that people want to buy our products in this format in these channels. Like all we have to do is execute as well. And we should be able to reclaim a lot of the halo effect and just the brand credibility that we have. But that's how I say, what do you see?
Nathan Resnick (40:51)
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. think if I was AG1, it would kind of light more, you know, fuel under my fire and just say, Hey, we've got to perform here. We've got to execute. We can't let this team eat our lunch. And I think that's what they're going to do. Right. I mean, they're already planning to expand into different product categories, right. Like sleep and I think immunity as well. And so they're already doing that. There's nothing to say that they couldn't go, you know, release a gummy as well. So, you know, I think it's going to really light more kind of motivation.
on their team, and think that's the right way to look at it. ⁓ I think great teams perform under pressure, and I'm sure that's what AG1 is going to do, is they're going to really kind of reinvest in their brand and growth and maybe expand into some more product categories here to defend their position in the market. I think when I think about Grüns and this whole story, you know,
What comes to me in terms of takeaways is just that you don't necessarily need to be an expert in a category to build a big business. You can learn it. can really have self-belief to understand that process. And you can kind of apply something that's working in a different format in terms of consumption. In this case, a powder or a pill and say, hey, can I apply that to gummies that people enjoy in general more?
than a powder and a pill. And so if I'm kind of thinking about summing up this story and kind of my takeaways, I think it's really just applying and applying a new format to an industry that's growing a lot. And I think that's really what Chad and the team have done very well here.
Aaron Alpeter (42:23)
Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think that, you know, this wasn't the kind of story of, know, Hey, there's a microbiome expert or an ex bodybuilder that was trying to emphasize performance. was really just for all intents and a regular guy who said, I hate this powder routine. I like the idea of powders, but how do I make it easier? And so I think you're right. Like this deep subject matter expertise is something that you can, you can learn. And I think Chad did a great job of becoming
an expert in gummy manufacturing and the science behind it. But the real piece here is finding a pain point, finding an insight, ⁓ making people want to do what they should do and kind of doing that. so, ⁓ you know, I think the main takeaway for me here is that if you're non-technical founder or someone in that space, you don't need to be a chemist, but you need to invest enough in the science to teach yourself so that you understand when the manufacturer is bluffing.
And so I think that Chad's understanding of supply chain and the manufacturing process has allowed him to outflank his competitors. and, know, if, if manufacturing is going to be your boat, go spend time in the factory, I think is the main takeaway.
Nathan Resnick (43:32)
Totally, totally. I love this episode. I love this story. Really impressive to see just the growth of Grüns and you know.
probably their continued growth too. We'll have to report back in a year or two and see where they're at. I'm sure they're gonna have more growth and more funding. In the meantime, for those that are listening, you've gotta leave us a review. We haven't heard from all of you that are tuning in, so take a second right now. Leave a review on Apple or Spotify. Share Ecommerce on Tap with a friend. We greatly appreciate you listening in to this episode of Ecommerce on Tap brought to by Sourcify and Izba.