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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Courtney (00:01.649)
Hello and welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast today. I'm Courtney Williams. I am a foster mom to over 60 kiddos and a mom to nine. And I am the foster care recruitment manager for America's Kids Belong, joined by my co -host, Brian Mavis, who is our founder and executive director.
Marcy Bursac (00:02.063)
Hello and welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast today. I'm Courtney Williams. I am a foster mom to over 60 kiddos and a mom to nine. And I am the foster care recruitment manager for America's Kids Belong, joined by my co -host, Brian Mavis, who is our founder and executive director. Hello, Courtney. I just got back from Mr. Batical. It's good to be back. This is kind of my first official assignment. Awesome. We're so glad you're black. But also glad you got a little break.
Brian Mavis (00:20.824)
Hello Courtney, it's good, I just got back from Mr. Batical's, good to be back. This is kind of my first official assignment.
Courtney (00:27.757)
Awesome. We're so glad you're black, but also glad you got a little break.
Brian Mavis (00:31.128)
Thank you, thank you. I'm looking forward to meeting and interviewing our guest today.
Marcy Bursac (00:31.363)
Thank you. Thank you. I'm looking forward to meeting and interviewing our guest today. Me too. Today we are joined by Marcy Bursack, who advocates for the thousands of children in the foster care system waiting to be adopted. She has a free app, a children's book, monthly podcasts, and many other resources to help guide people through foster care adoption. Marcy and her husband Nathan live in the greater St. Louis area with their two children that adopted from foster care.
Courtney (00:37.989)
Me too. Today we are joined by Marcy Bursack, who advocates for the thousands of children in the foster care system waiting to be adopted. She has a free app, a children's book, monthly podcast, and many other resources to help guide people through foster care adoption. Marcy and her husband Nathan live in the greater St. Louis area with their two children they adopted from foster care. She's the founder of the Forgotten Adoption Option and the host of the Forgotten Adoption Option podcast.
Marcy Bursac (00:59.983)
She's the founder of the Forgotten Adoption Option and the host of the Forgotten Adoption Option podcast. She was interviewed and announced the winner of the Pilot Pen G2 Overachievers Grant on the Kelly Clarkson Show on October 26th of 2023. And she was also crowned the United States of America's Miss Ohio in 2022. She wrote a book, What to Know When You Adopt Through Foster Care. And wow.
Courtney (01:06.417)
She was interviewed and announced the winner of the Pilot Pen G2 overachievers grant on the Kelly Clarkson show on October 26th of 2023. And she was also crowned the United States of America's Miss Ohio in 2022. She wrote a book, What to Know When You Adopt Through Foster Care. And wow, that's a lot, Marcy. We are so thankful. You're obviously a busy lady and we are thankful that you are joining us today.
Marcy Bursac (01:27.789)
That's a lot, Marcy. We are so thankful. You're obviously a busy lady and we are thankful that you are joining us today. know, I think Marcy, so you got a lot going on. And, before we dive into these deep questions we got for you, what's a week in the life of Marcy look like? first of all, Brian, welcome back. mean, being on sabbatical, super cool. I feel really honored that I'm like, and you came out of the hibernation and here you are, but,
Brian Mavis (01:34.2)
Yeah, Marcy, so you got a lot going on and before we dive into these deep questions we got for you, what's a week in the life of Marcy look
Marcy Bursac (01:53.935)
I prefer the word intentional with my time. I don't know if you all have heard of the term like incremental gains theory where like if you do something five or 10 minutes a week or every couple weeks, you actually get further on a goal than if you completely abandon it, right? And so my week is a lot of prayer, going to bed with, okay, God, I hope I'm ready for whatever tomorrow holds. I want to say yes to what those opportunities are.
Sometimes I get a bit of vision. Like I can tell you, I've got a couple of books in the works, one for 2025, one for 2026. But in terms of the day to day and that it kind of varies sometimes like right now I'm using my day job kind of lunchtime to hop on here with you all. I have the privilege of working fully remote. So I can be pretty active in my kids' lives. My children are biological siblings, which is pretty cool.
Brian Mavis (02:37.016)
Yes.
Marcy Bursac (02:42.063)
And my husband and I take our marriage very seriously. So we we monthly have a budget committee meeting. We're very nerdy and really enjoy like down to earth board games. So a lot of good fun and kayaks are in there too. But I'm trying to live with a lot of intentionality and purpose. know some people like to wait until they retire and say, I'm to work on my passion project then. And I've kind of thrown that out the window and gone, why can't I do it now while I'm also living my life? Yeah, there's some lessons right there on
Brian Mavis (02:49.346)
No.
Brian Mavis (03:03.491)
Mmm.
Courtney (03:08.251)
Wow, I love that.
Brian Mavis (03:08.366)
Yeah, there's some lessons right there on a week in the life of just for people to take away. So Marcy, okay, so let's hear about your story. so specifically interested in how did you and Nathan, first of all, decide to adopt through foster care? That's lots of people, you know, that's an option. When they first think about needing to adopt,
Marcy Bursac (03:12.203)
a week in the life of, for people to take away. So Marcy, okay, so let's hear about your story. And so specifically interested in how did you and Nathan, first of all, decide to adopt through foster care? Lots of people, you know, that's an option. When they first think about needing to adopt, they maybe think private or international.
Courtney (03:14.481)
people to take away. So Marcy, okay, so let's hear about your story. So specifically interested in how did you and Nathan, first of all, decide to adopt food foster care? Lots of people, you know, that's an option when they first think about needing to adopt a private or international. And then second part, follow up to that question.
Brian Mavis (03:38.536)
maybe think private or international. And then second part, follow up to that question is what was the process like of adopting through foster care, specifically a sibling
Marcy Bursac (03:41.523)
And then second part, follow up to that question is what was the process like of adopting through foster care, specifically the sibling set? Yeah, so we kind of followed the data, which says it takes you about five years to ever think about adopting to actually doing it. We, before we got married, I explained to my husband, I had just gotten back from an overseas mission strip where I spent a lot of time with teen girls in an orphanage who were there electively. Their families couldn't feed and care for them. And I remember coming back to the States very frustrated that that could have been me.
Courtney (03:44.557)
is what was the process like of adopting food foster care, specifically the set.
Brian Mavis (03:57.193)
mhm.
Courtney (03:57.393)
Before we got married, I explained...
Courtney (04:07.055)
and I'm not just being very concentrated.
Marcy Bursac (04:10.837)
and I couldn't do anything about it and I couldn't help these girls. And so I kind of got to the point of, then my solution will be, just adopt as my plan A. And so when my husband and I started dating and our relationship was pretty serious, I was like, yeah, just so you know, like this is what I want. And I expected him to be like, our relationship's over. And instead he proceeded to tell me about Grandpa Siam who lived in St. Louis in the
Courtney (04:13.915)
So I kind of got to the point of, then my solution would be to always adapt as my friend. And so when my husband and I are dating and our relationship is too serious, I was like, yeah, just let me know, this is what I want. And I expected him to be like, eh, our relationship's over. And instead
Marcy Bursac (04:33.529)
Sam was seven years old, a first generation immigrant from Serbia when mom and dad died, leaving Sam and his two older siblings orphaned in the city of San Luis. This is a very, very different era in our society. They had died of pneumonia and Sam's two older siblings were able to be taken in by a family who had a big, farm that needed some help. Sam was a young boy, had gone through a lot of trauma, probably was not very helpful and he grew up on the streets.
So my husband was raised by grandpa Sam and often wondered to himself, like what would have happened if, so when I explained to my husband that my plan A was to adopt, I was very surprisingly met with, yeah, me too. And so we didn't know how, we found all those options, Brian, as you mentioned, you can adopt an infant, you can adopt internationally. And his one requirement was like my grandpa, I wanna adopt in our backyard and I want that kid to not be a baby. And I said, okay, like that makes a lot of sense. Sam was seven, how do we maybe pay it forward for their Sam?
Courtney (05:23.441)
think a lot of them stand with seven. do we make this pay for it? So that took us a lot of time. The internet is not what it was. My great -grandma weren't out there, so it wasn't as great. that's what we do. Like, I need fostering, we're fostering, and
Brian Mavis (05:25.784)
Hmm. Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (05:26.799)
So that took us a lot of time. The internet is not what it was. My resources weren't out there, so it wasn't as straight. that's what we do. Like I knew fostering was fostering and then there was adoption of an infant or international. didn't understand foster care adoption. And one day the church we were at is part of Orphan Sunday. They did like a weekend long expo. They called it Orphan Cry. And one of the organizations there in this little pamphlet announced that they helped Christian families foster and adopt through foster
Brian Mavis (05:56.888)
Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (05:57.101)
And I was like, what does that mean? So we literally grabbed the last packet. My husband got a little cold feet. He's the very first episode on my podcast talks about that where he's like, but all my freedom, it's all gone. So we applied. had a very, what I would consider an edge case from what I understand our social worker was brand new to this space. Our kids.
Courtney (05:57.201)
And I was like, what is that? So we literally grabbed the last packet. My husband got a little cold feet. I used a very good episode on my podcast, talked about that, where he said, my Frida, it's all gone. So we applied. We had a very, what I would consider as case. We understand our social reserve was way needed as a case. Our kids, we had applied for a different sibling care. We had a chartered process. We training and so forth. talked to another family. They took the other family who had a child.
Marcy Bursac (06:16.673)
We had applied for a different sibling pair, went through this arduous process of getting extra training and so forth. It was us and another family. They chose the other family who had a child, biological child that could help these kids in a different way that we could. So in our day of a lot of letdown, that afternoon we opened our email and there was no photograph of our children who lived five hours across state asking if anyone wanted to apply and by the way, the deadline's tomorrow.
Courtney (06:27.181)
So in our day of lot of let down, that afternoon we opened our email and we were
Brian Mavis (06:28.483)
Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (06:41.231)
So my husband's at the store getting our stress foods to recoup from our day of a lot of emotion. I crafted email and asked him if I can send it. And we untraditionally got a phone call about two weeks later telling me that we were picked. We had zero interview and we entered into a legal risk relationship, meaning our kids had been in care for so long. We were their seventh home, that it was just kind of a matter of legal timing to iron things out. But what was told to us would take four months, took 18. So nine months in, I'm on my bathroom floor crying.
Courtney (06:41.553)
So I hope that this is how we're getting our stress out and free kicks from our day of a lot of emotions.
Courtney (06:50.961)
They were telling me that we were saying we had zero energy. And we entered into a legal writ. So they kept us eating our kids. I've been in here for so long. We were done and done. That is just kind of a matter of legal.
Thanks so much. So nine months in, I met after four prying. Not understanding why I chose no to plant A and not to do a red bean.
Brian Mavis (07:10.658)
Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (07:10.799)
Not understanding why I have chosen this as plan a and that's really what led me into the ministry life that I'm in with the forgotten option option is there's really Always an underlying silver lining even when things are Yeah, God, you know, there's those phrases God Uses our bruises and our messes our message and so I think that's part of what you're saying. Yeah, so just just a personal curiosity I was trying to understand
Courtney (07:19.065)
is really always an underlying social language, even when things are hard. Yeah, praises God, uses our bruises and our message, our message itself. I think that's part of what you're saying. So just of personal curiosity, I trying to understand time. When did this happen? What year was that? And how old were your kids when you first learned about them?
Brian Mavis (07:24.514)
Yeah, God, you know, there's those phrases, God uses our bruises and our messes, our message. And so I think that's part of what you're saying. So just out of just personal curiosity, I was trying to understand time when it's like, when did this happen? What year was that? And how old were your kids when you first learned about
Marcy Bursac (07:40.911)
like when did this happen? What year was that? And how old were your kids when you first learned about them? Yeah, so we met them 10 years ago actually. So this would have been 2014. My daughter was a week from her third birthday and my son was four. So if you're the math on that, my daughter was in care since she was six months old and my son was a year and a half. Okay, and they had been in, said seven? We were there seventh, yep.
Courtney (07:50.783)
Okay.
Courtney (07:57.209)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (08:03.296)
OK, and there had been, you said, seven different placements? Seventh placement. Sheesh, that's a
Courtney (08:03.395)
And they had been in seven different places. Seven. That's a lot. And now teenagers.
Marcy Bursac (08:10.799)
A lot. Just a lot. And now teenagers. Yeah, yeah, I've got an eighth grader and a ninth grader. It's an exciting time. We embrace all ages. We're only a child for 20 % of our lives. So, you know, our voices change. We get a little bigger and then we're an adult.
Brian Mavis (08:14.388)
hehehehe
Courtney (08:21.371)
Yeah.
I love it. Yeah, it sounds like it's kind of similar to our story in the sense that when we started looking into foster care and adoption, really adoption was international. Like that's what we keep seeing. We didn't know anybody that had adopted through foster care. But God called us to start a ministry. And so we started looking into things and everything seemed to be for the most part, it was, you know, those orphans overseas. And so we had to do a deep dive into foster care and foster care adoption
Marcy Bursac (08:26.339)
Yeah, it sounds like it's kind of similar to our story in the sense that when we started looking into foster care and adoption, really adoption was international. Like that's what we keep seeing. We didn't know anybody that had adopted through foster care. But God called us to start a ministry. And so we started looking into things and everything seemed to be for the most part, it was, you know, those orphans overseas. And so we had to do a deep dive into foster care and foster care adoption
Courtney (08:53.295)
become, in a sense, the experts that we could help other people, just in our small church in North Dakota. But tell me a little bit more about why you birthed the forgotten adoption option and what that looks like.
Marcy Bursac (08:53.549)
become in a sense the experts that we could help other people just in our small church in North Dakota. But tell me about a little bit more about why you were the forgotten adoption option and what that looks like. Yeah, well, a lot of it, Courtney, was similar, right? Like, how do you find information when you don't know? Because we didn't either. We didn't know anyone had done this. And so we're like, how do you, what do you do? And really what happened is
People were watching us. We had the nine month mark, my husband and I discussed about maybe what we could do was blog because then we could tell more people we knew about what we were going through, but we would really curb it to our perspective as the adoptive parent. Not ever bad talking to bio family, not ever explaining why our kids weren't cared, but really keeping it about us and our journey as a way to protect our kids, but also to open people's eyes. Like this is right around us. And it was really that.
Brian Mavis (09:37.368)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (09:40.579)
blog that then turned into our adoption was finalized. And then we had people coming over after our kids were in bed and they come over for about two hours. And we'd be like, and this is how we did it. And it wasn't a straight line. It was this and that and emotions and this and make a left turn. And all those families did
And then when the pandemic hit and we were sent stimulus payments, I had seen a news article about someone had like donated theirs. And so I asked my husband, I was like, we're both employed. Like, can we do something similar to that? And he's like, where do you want to donate? And I was like, I didn't get that far. I just want to know, like, are you open to this? And so what I did is I wrote my first book, it's called The Forgotten Adoption Option and it's a how -to guide. And it goes through the heart work as well as like the actual steps in the process. And it was our way of how do we not just help people in our own community and
I'd even started zooming, but now we can help people across the entire nation, even though there's nuance and names and stuff, it's not that different. And so that's really what led into everything else was just, we taught our friends, they were very interested and we realized there was opportunity to share that knowledge across the country.
Courtney (10:45.965)
Awesome.
Brian Mavis (10:47.16)
So when you were going through this and sharing your own experience, did you find that your experience was unique or you said, gosh, I'm hearing a lot of commonalities? then when you were going through all that, did you, whether yours was unique or common, did
Marcy Bursac (10:47.459)
So when you were going through this and sharing your own experience, did you find that your experience was unique? Or you said, gosh, I'm hearing a lot of commonalities. then when you were going through all that, did you, whether yours was unique or common, did you?
Courtney (11:13.733)
whether yours was unique or common, did you have your eyes open to like, here's the big needs that are happening across your care, and here's some of the substantial barriers.
Brian Mavis (11:16.084)
have your eyes open to like, okay, here's the big needs that are happening in foster care and here's some of the substantial barriers.
Marcy Bursac (11:16.461)
Have your eyes open to like, here's the big needs that are happening in foster care and here's some of the substantial barriers. I think it was kind of a mix, Brian. Like our social worker who was new had worked with an agency, private agency, they've been doing this for a long time. So when we came to the table and said, hey, we just got this call, we said yes. And it's like a Thursday or Tuesday afternoon and I need to go meet these kids a couple of days later. Her boss was like, whoa, whoa, this is not how this works. So we're kind of getting secondhand information in that.
And then I was also asked to help, was on a foster parent recruitment group with multiple agencies in my region. So I learned a whole lot about the other side of the table. And I was like the one like non social worker at the table. So I think I was aware of it in that, but I think my nature is I tend to learn a skill and share it. Like that's just kind of my life. I learned how to do budgeting. So I teach people how I teach personal finance. I pivoted into tech, I help people do that. And so this was kind of yet another skill of.
Brian Mavis (11:58.145)
Mm
Marcy Bursac (12:13.399)
Okay, this is how it goes. And then you learn, you know, okay, well, we adopted siblings. there's a huge need for siblings. Didn't know that, you know? And so it kind of became this like, we happen to be in this realm. But I think in turn of that, Brian, what has happened is I've done so much private, like one -on -one or couples with, conversations, because people have concerns and worries and different things. And I've done that a lot, whether it's through Marco Polo or Zoom or, you know, beyond my living room. And
Brian Mavis (12:32.098)
Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (12:42.189)
I've heard a lot of similar things to what I myself went through and I had mentors as well along the way that kind of swooped me over. And so through that is where I even have recently embarked upon doing a research study on the barriers we face as non -Kenn adoptive families. And it's really just a curiosity of like, I'm hearing this, is this really what the problems are? And one of those things, Brian, very initially was after I published the book, after teaching people my own community,
I published the book and the very first people I hear from are three moms in my own county, which was really interesting. And they all said, I read your book and I can't do it. And I said, why? And they said, I was told I can't. And I said, why? So I get on the phone. I learned that the program, my husband and I were funded through, didn't see any of this because it's government program stuff.
There was a line item in our state budget that would license people like us to adopt only. I was never a foster parent. Like on paper I was, they're in that limbo state for my kids, but that was not my intention at all. And they had removed that funding very quietly in my state. So I then all of a sudden it was like, well, this isn't fair. I have to solve this. And so I did a lot of phone calls. I knew all these other agencies from just being a volunteer in different spaces.
Courtney (13:43.653)
they had to do with that funding. So I then all of a sudden it was like, well, this is unfair. I have to talk to them. And so I knew all these other agencies from just being a volunteer in the front page and asking more questions and being able to find the pilot program that they're just bringing back something they used to have. I think some of that has been, but I got to do this help from huge. And especially when there's thousands of children left, how can we do So that's really what's driving a lot of.
Marcy Bursac (13:56.723)
more questions and being able to find and kind of it's a pilot program but they're just bringing back something we used to have so I think some of that has been but I got to do this how come you cannot and especially when there's thousands of children left how come you can't and so that's really what's driving a lot of the resources I create is how do I help other people see how to do this so that they don't feel like they're not responded to so they don't feel like they're told no because we all know there's a need.
Courtney (14:12.561)
So in that case, that you live in Missouri, right? So would you we have a perspective that
Marcy Bursac (14:21.049)
Like it's, the data is out there. The faces are out there. Like we all know it. It's just knowing it and doing it are very, very different things.
Brian Mavis (14:29.102)
So in that case, that you live in Missouri, right? So would you, do you have a perspective that is generic enough that no matter what state people live in, they can expect, I think it's good if they know to expect barriers. So that way you don't, they don't feel like, this just wasn't meant to be. It's like, no, this isn't a sprint. It's
Marcy Bursac (14:31.343)
So in that case, that you live in Missouri, right? I do. So would you have a perspective that is generic enough that no matter what state people live in, they can expect? I think it's good if they know to expect barriers. So that way they don't feel like, this just wasn't meant to be. It's like, no, this isn't a sprint. It's a steeple chase. There's going to be, know, gosh.
Courtney (14:41.669)
generic enough that no matter what state people are in, they can expect, I think it's good if they know to expect barriers. So that way they don't feel like, this just wasn't meant to be. It's like, no, this isn't a sprint. It's a steeplechase. know? Bruiser shanity jump over this thing and all that. What are some of those barriers that probably are common no matter where you live?
Brian Mavis (14:56.814)
It's a steeplechase. There's going to be, you know, you're going to bruise your shanty as you jump over this thing and all that. What are some of those barriers that probably are common no matter where you live?
Marcy Bursac (15:01.295)
bruise your shin as you jump over this thing and all that. What are some of those barriers that probably are common no matter where you live? Yeah, yeah, like kind of the universal barriers in this space. A lot of it is there's a lot of fear. And sometimes that fear is tied as like even especially a couple, there's usually one that's like, woohoo, let's go. And the other one's like, no. And there's usually something under that. So I'm coaching a lot of families. like, I had to address my own childhood wounds, right? You got to go kind of work on you before you can do this. It's very common. And there's just kind of stigma.
Brian Mavis (15:11.619)
Yeah.
Marcy Bursac (15:30.379)
attached to these kids. And so sometimes people want to just transparently ask questions and they don't want you to judge them for asking questions because it's based on all the information they've ever received in their eyes and their heart. And they're just like, can you tell me if this is true? Can you tell me if the behaviors are like this? Those are huge barriers on like a personal level. And then when you get into the system level, you get the, reached out, they never called me back or they never emailed me back. Then you get the, I'm supposed to be in this class in two months, but they never responded. And then you get, yeah, that social worker changed.
And then you get, lost my paperwork. That one happens all the time. So a lot of that commonality, Brian, is really, I'm then helping empower families like me that are going through this process saying, okay, so expect this, expect that they're gonna leave you and expect that they're gonna lose your paperwork. So here's how to mitigate that, right? You make copies of everything. You follow up to everything. You put a reminder, but meanwhile, also having that empathetic heart of this person's competent.
this person's just overwhelmed. And so make sure, like we practice a lot of delivery, delivery of how do you follow up with the social worker who last week you followed up and then it's the holiday break and they're not responding. And it's like, first off, give them a day and then let's respond like this, you know, and just in reminding them. But then there's also the piece Brian that gets really complicated, which is if you go into this process and say, I want to adopt through foster care, which we all know you can do in some seats or, you know, more direct than others.
Brian Mavis (16:28.654)
That's good.
Brian Mavis (16:38.754)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Brian Mavis (16:51.534)
Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (16:51.683)
The problem is what happened to me and happens to many of us is the moment you're done with your first rounds of classes to be kind of foster licensed, they'll call you with an emergency really sad case and say, can you take these kids? And this is where my husband intervened and he was like, wake up Marcy. And I was like, what? And he was like, I know this is a sad story and you're not a mean person.
Courtney (16:59.639)
And this is where my husband intervened. He was like, wake up, Marcy. And I was like, what? He was like, I know this is a sad story and you're not a mean person, but we've got a doctor. And if we all of a sudden say yes to foster, that outcome's very different. And now the beds that we have ready for three children are kissing by kiss. might be with a condom. And that, think, is one of the hardest troubles we all face on the other side. Because we feel like we don't want you to call us with this really sad story.
Marcy Bursac (17:10.115)
but we said adoption. And if we all of a sudden say yes to foster, that outcomes very different. And now the beds that we have ready for two children are taken by kids that might be with us indefinitely. And that I think is one of the hardest struggles we all face on the other side, because we feel like jerks. Like we don't want you to call us with this really sad story. You want to help a kid, you signed up this to help a kid. And then you said, I want to adopt, but yet you're presented these temporary arrangements, which are valiant. will, know, wonderful people. Courtney, you fostered
people are great that do that, but not all of us have that intention. And so that even is something I work with families on the front end of like, you have to be ready to remind them over and over and over and over and over over and over and over what your intention is. Because it's not always reciprocate. Even if you say I want this age range, they're gonna call you for something outside that age range. that's another barrier is you have these like impulse decisions. Like I need you to decide in two minutes, Brian, I have this age of kid.
Brian Mavis (17:51.938)
Mm -hmm.
Marcy Bursac (18:04.047)
you need to tell me right now on the phone. And if you need to go talk to your significant other and call back, even in 10 minutes, it's likely they're not going to call you back because they already found someone else. And so you have a lot of just really confusing details to this space because you go into it saying, hi, I'd like to kind of proceed this way. And then you're presented with things like you don't go on Amazon and Google something or search for something that you want to purchase.
expecting them to left field you something completely non -related and that that's a lot of the coaching that I do with families is like you have to remember and you have to really drive this because you're really empowered on the other side to partner but partnering is also speaking up and advocating for yourself and your family. That's good. Yeah, and I really appreciate how you categorize kind of the two main barriers. There's the personal and then there's the system and so a lot of people I
Brian Mavis (18:41.74)
That's good. Yeah. And I really appreciate how you've categorized kind of the two main barriers. There's the personal and then there's the system. And so a lot of people, think they skip over the personal part. yeah, you might need to do some interior reflection on some of your own stuff. So that's really good.
Courtney (18:41.903)
That's good, yeah, and I really appreciate how you categorize kind of two main barriers. There's the personal and then there's the system and so a lot of people I think they skip over the personal part. yeah, you might do some interior reflection on some of your own stuff.
Marcy Bursac (18:56.895)
they skip over the personal part. yeah, you might need to do some some interior reflection on some of some of your your own stuff. So that's really good. But it can be hard, right? Because we care about kids and we feel compelled and that it's urgent to help kids. But we can only be as good of a parent as where we've gone ourselves. Right. And so like that was even for me, like I want to get through the therapy that I need to go through first, because when my kids are going to need that later, they're going to need it. I want to say this is the name of my person and therapy is awesome.
Courtney (19:08.965)
So that's really good.
Brian Mavis (19:26.86)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it really is. Yeah, it's important to examine your own history, your own motives. mean, I know that some people have gone into it saying they've got a hole in their heart and they wanting a child to help fill it. And it's like, think you need something else to fill that hole before you expect a child to do that. Because as a parent, you're meant to be the giver, not the taker.
Courtney (19:27.141)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it really is. Yeah, it's important to examine your own history, your own motives. mean, some I mean, I know that some people have gone into it saying they've got a hole in their heart and they want a child to help fill it. And it's like, I think you need something else to fill that hole before you expect a child to do that. As a parent, you're meant to be the giver, not the taker.
Marcy Bursac (19:27.203)
You know, it's healthy and good. Yeah, and it really is. Yeah, it's important to examine your own history, your own motives. mean, some, I mean, I know that some people have gone into it saying they've got a hole in their heart and they want to wanting a child to help fill it. And it's like, I think you need something else to fill that heart, you know, hole before you expect a child to do that. Because as a parent, you're meant to be the giver, not the taker.
Right. And I hear that a lot with people that come kind of driven by the infertility story. And so that's even just another dialogue of like, you really have to unpack those expectations. My newest book, What to Know When You Dop through Foster Care, a number of families share how they kind of grieve that loss before ever entering into this so that they were like wholeheart ready and not like expecting this kid to meet an expectation, but really like you're saying there to parent the child and coach. Yeah. And it's interesting because just listening to you speak.
Courtney (20:00.603)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (20:11.341)
Yes.
Courtney (20:19.727)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because just listening to you speak, you know, as the foster care recruitment manager, I have this job to recruit foster parents, which is very different than kind of what you're speaking of. Because the biggest thing I talk to people all the time, pretty much every single day, is foster care is meant to be temporary. Yes, adoption does happen and there are kids waiting to be adopted. But we also need these in between homes.
Marcy Bursac (20:24.665)
You know, as the foster care recruitment manager, I have this job to recruit foster parents, which is very different than kind of what you're speaking of. Because the biggest thing I talk to people all the time, pretty much every single day, foster care is meant to be temporary. Yes, adoption does happen, and there are kids waiting to be adopted. But we also need these in -between homes. So you very much focus on the adoption side of foster care.
Courtney (20:48.335)
So you very much focus on the adoption side of foster care, right?
Marcy Bursac (20:52.463)
Right, right. Really advocating for the 113 ,000 kids that are legally in a foster home or residential facility that are stuck there until either they age out or we adopt them. And so yeah, those are the kids that unfortunately they're part of the 50 % that 50 % of the time, right, the data shows that kids in foster care reunify and then the other half they don't. And then those kids are who I'm focusing on the ones that don't get to reunify that are just waiting to have a permanent family.
Brian Mavis (21:17.218)
Yeah, I want to make sure I highlight that for some of our listeners who are still, you know, trying to wrap their head being introduced to this space is to think about foster care as there is this big number of kids out there, but they essentially fall into two buckets. One with the goal towards reunification with a biological family. And the other bucket is that goal. They probably started in that goal, but it got changed.
Marcy Bursac (21:17.539)
Yeah, I want to make sure I highlight that for some of our listeners who are still, you know, trying to wrap their head being introduced to this space is to think about foster care as there is this big number of kids out there, but they essentially fall into two buckets, one with the goal towards reunification with a biological family. And the other bucket is that goal. They probably started in that goal, but it got changed.
Courtney (21:41.809)
that goal. They probably started in that goal, but it got changed.
Brian Mavis (21:45.998)
And the goal now is to find permanency through adoption. So if you're new to this space, remember those two broad categories. so speaking of that, there's in that one second bucket, there's 18 ,000 kids right now a year who age out. And so that means that they've turned typically 18 years old. And now they're no longer a part of the system.
Marcy Bursac (21:46.287)
and the goal now is to find permanency through adoption. So if you're new to this space, remember those two broad categories. so speaking of that, there's in that one second bucket, there's 18 ,000 kids right now a year who age out. And so that means that they've turned typically 18 years old. And now they're no longer a part of the system.
Courtney (21:51.837)
So if you're new to this space.
Courtney (21:58.385)
Yeah, so speaking of that, there's in that one second bucket, there's 18 ,000 kids right now a year who age out. And so that means that they've turned typically 18 years old. And now they're no longer a part of system and they never really found a family. so of course, that's heartbreaking thing to go through that challenge and go from one hardship to a new kind of hardship.
Brian Mavis (22:14.062)
They never really found a family. And so, you know, of course that's a heartbreaking thing to go through that challenge and you go from one hardship into a new kind of hardship. So Marcy, your heart is for kids to find permanency. What would be your like final thought or maybe not a thought, maybe an encouragement?
Marcy Bursac (22:14.627)
They never really found a family. So, you know, of course, that's heartbreaking thing to go through that challenge and you go from one hardship to a new kind of hardship. So, Marcy, your heart is for kids to find permanency. What would be your final thought or maybe not a thought, maybe an encouragement?
Courtney (22:28.909)
Marcy, your heart is for kids to find permanency. What would be your final thought or maybe not thought, maybe an encouragement to people who are considering adopting food foster care?
Brian Mavis (22:43.448)
to people who are considering adopting through foster
Marcy Bursac (22:43.769)
to people who are considering adopting through foster care. Yeah, I wanna, you mentioned this incredibly powerful statistic about aging out of foster care, and you're right. And the part that, just to paint the picture for people, to add to what you said, is it's literally on their 18th or 21st, some states are a little bit older now, too, birthday. So it's like, birthday. We're gonna take away all your supports, and you're usually in the middle of your senior year of high school. The statistics show you're not likely to be in college. And so there's just this
shambling of supports. And I think for people that are in this space trying to journey it, I think it's always remember your why. And if your why, like Brian mentioned earlier, is you have this hole in your heart, you need to unpack some other things that are worth navigating. But if your why is also like, I just really want to do this, I really want to help. Maybe you already have biological children, maybe they're adults, or maybe they're older, maybe they're younger, and you even have questions around birth order or
Courtney (23:15.753)
are in the space trying to learn it, I think it's always remember your why. And if your why is really great, you're just going to hurt, you need to unpack some other things that are worth communicating. But if your why is also like, I just really want to see this, I really want to help, maybe you already have biological children, maybe they're adults, or maybe they're older, or maybe they're younger, and you have to have birth order, or you're not sure of the single person, like get to them, it's kind of just what person.
Brian Mavis (23:25.528)
Mm
Marcy Bursac (23:39.981)
you're not sure as a single person, like, yes, you can, is kind of the short version of all of that. And one of our favorite quotes as a family is that you don't have to be the perfect parent to be a child's perfect parent. And that it's not really about you having it together. I know so many times any sort of life event that we're thinking, it's not the right time or it's not the perfect time. There never is a perfect time ever. And I love what one of the families I've coached has said to their community up in Michigan is that,
If everyone could just go get licensed because then you're ready whenever the opportunity presents itself. And I don't know how that would really impact the child welfare system, but man, I think about how beautiful that could be if we're all just ready to help when we get a phone call of need. And so just encouraging that like, if you have questions, if you are unsure and you're kind of like nervous to ask them, I'm here. I know you all have a lot of content and opportunity as well to
Courtney (24:09.602)
I don't know how that would impact the cow welfare system, but I think that helps me to connect with them.
Courtney (24:20.763)
So, if you have questions, if you are unsure, and you're kind of self -nervous, ask them. I'm here, I know you all.
Marcy Bursac (24:32.963)
confide and explain and process, because so much of this feels heavy, big, confusing, and many other things. So don't give up, because it is. These kids are certainly worth it, because if it were you or me, I think we'd really hope that somebody did this for us too. Yeah, that's really good. You won't get a phone call to help a child if you're not licensed. So you've got to do your work first.
Courtney (24:46.629)
Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. You won't get a phone call to help a child if you're not licensed. So you've got to do your work first. Yeah. And that is just a great reminder, too. I know we get that question, the adoption question a lot. And like you said, they're not going to call you back. But we get the opposite as well. People are interested. They see a waiting child. They see a picture. They see a video. And their heart gets attached to that child.
Brian Mavis (24:46.872)
Yeah, that's really good. You won't get a phone call to help a child if you're not licensed. So you've got to do your work first.
Marcy Bursac (24:58.393)
And that is just a great reminder too, I know we get that question when the adoption question a lot. And like you said, they're not gonna call you back or, but we get the opposite as well. People are interested, they see a waiting child, they see a picture, they see a video and their heart gets attached to that child. And then by the time they go through the licensing process, that child is hopefully placed with a family. So take the next step, right? They can get licensed first because it doesn't work. think people sometimes get lost in that process.
Courtney (25:14.617)
And then by the time they go through the licensing process, that child is hopefully placed in a family. take the next step, right? Like to get licensed first, because it doesn't work. think people sometimes get lost in that process and then they get discouraged when the one kiddo that they really felt drawn to is no longer available for adoption. Yeah.
Marcy Bursac (25:26.221)
and then they get discouraged when the one kiddo that they really felt drawn to is no longer available for adoption. Yeah, and I - That was Marcy's story, right? Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, Courtney, because I get that a lot of people are like, but I was going after this kid of his sibling group. And I have to often remind them that that might be an inspiration for you, but be very open to where the need is. And that's just, think, a coaching opportunity, right? Like, we all don't know because there's other scenarios in our life where we can go online and we can see the thing that we think we're going to be connecting with, right?
Brian Mavis (25:32.536)
Yeah, that was Marcy's story, right?
Marcy Bursac (25:55.543)
And so it's just kind of a rewiring of expectation.
Courtney (26:00.123)
Yeah, I love the mentorship that you provide, because I feel like that's what a lot of people need. And then the mentoring afterwards, right? Now that we're in the thick of it, how do we do this? How do we keep going?
Marcy Bursac (26:00.463)
Yeah, I love the mentorship that you provide, because I feel like that's what a lot of people need. Yes. And then the mentoring afterwards, right? Now that we're in the thick of it, how do we do this? How do we keep going? Well, awesome, Marcy and listeners, we on our website, we have a resources page full of resources that are books, podcasts, trainings, videos, many different things. And we do have Marcy's resources on their well.
Brian Mavis (26:03.543)
Yes.
Mm -hmm.
Brian Mavis (26:11.586)
Mm -hmm.
Courtney (26:13.435)
Well, awesome, Marcy and listeners. We on our website, we have a resources page full of resources that are books, podcasts, trainings, videos, many different things. And we do have Marcy's resources on there. Well, the Forgotten Adoption Podcast, as well as some of her books. So as well as that, Marcy, so people can find that resource page in the show notes for today. But also, how can people just follow
Marcy Bursac (26:30.189)
Forgotten Adoption podcast, as well as some of her books. So as well as that, Mark, so people can find that resource page in the show notes for today. But also, how can people just follow you? Yeah. And thank you for being included in there and being on this podcast. It's been such a great conversation. I think a lot of us have just kind of like, opened our eyes to things. you can find me easily on ForgottenAdoptionoption .com. And to reach out one on one, you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. You say it so smoothly. It's hard for me to say without.
Courtney (26:56.533)
You say it so smoothly, it's hard for me to say without tripping on my words. You've got it
Marcy Bursac (27:00.207)
tripping on my words. You've got it down. Forgotten adoption option. Again, I just love that thinking of adoption and these kids that are waiting for forever homes and just opening people's hearts and minds and homes, hopefully, for these kids that are waiting. Marcy, nice meeting you and thank you for opening up your heart and your home to these kids.
Courtney (27:04.827)
Forgotten adoption option. Again, I just love that thinking of adoption and these kids that are waiting for forever homes and just opening people's hearts and minds and homes hopefully for these kids that are waiting.
Brian Mavis (27:18.9)
Marcy, nice meeting you and thank you for opening up your heart and your home to these kids. And then there's a term for what you do, a maven. Do you know that word? So a maven is a person who loves to share what they learn. And so that you've taken your own experiences, your own learnings, and you've said, I would love to share this so other people
Marcy Bursac (27:26.091)
There's a term for what you do, a maven. Do you know that word? I haven't heard this, do tell. So a maven is a person who loves to share what they learn. And so that you've taken your own experiences, your own learnings, and you said, I would love to share this so other people don't have to go through so many dead ends.
Courtney (27:40.411)
taken your own experiences, own learnings and you said I would love to share this so other people don't have to go through so many dead ends. so appreciate you sharing so much what you learn and mentoring others.
Brian Mavis (27:47.404)
don't have to go through so many dead ends. so I appreciate you sharing so much what you learn and mentoring others.
Marcy Bursac (27:55.503)
appreciate you sharing so much what you learn and mentoring others. I have a good nugget to go research. And I want to make sure folks know too, because I know your website, you will have an entire video. You call them something different, but you've done interviews with children that are waiting to be adopted in your I Belong project. So people can also use your website for that. Yeah, we've videoed thousands of kids who wanted to be adopted and it's a beautiful program and very successful.
Brian Mavis (28:12.408)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've videoed thousands of kids who have wanted to be adopted and it's a beautiful program and very successful.
Courtney (28:12.643)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've, yeah, we've videoed thousands of kids who wanted to be adopted in this beautiful program and very successful. Yeah. Thank
Marcy Bursac (28:25.945)
They're beautiful. I've watched some of the videos and then like, yeah, I need tissues. just, they're so, you can like really feel the heart behind so much of it. You all are doing such great things. So just appreciate all that you're doing. And I know it's a hard load of work, but so worth it and glad to be partnering. Great. Thank you, Marcy. Thanks for joining us today. God bless.
Brian Mavis (28:35.746)
Thank
Brian Mavis (28:40.824)
Great. Thank you, Marcy.
Courtney (28:40.867)
Yeah, we appreciate you. Thanks for joining us today.
Brian Mavis (28:45.198)
God bless.