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Dig In is your go to source for insights innovation. It's for anyone with a genuine interest in fostering brand and product growth, exploring groundbreaking innovations, and embracing the dynamic world of expanding businesses and brands.
Jess Gaedeke (00:11)
Hi everybody, welcome to the Dig In podcast. As a wrap up to this season of the pod, we decided to revisit some of our most memorable moments from our conversations with guests. you're going to see a little string of clips from some of the really cool conversations that we're able to have. And this first one is one of the biggest themes this season, and that is the idea that empathy still matters. This is something we believe quite passionately at Dig. We have a number of folks, including Rob Volpe, our empathy activist, and others at the company.
that really understand that this really matters. And some of the best insights, they do not come from dashboards, they actually come from being with consumers. from Bell Group, shares the story of how a simple visit into consumers' homes completely changed the way her teams thought about their brands.
Amy Baer (00:58)
I've always been very passionate about ethnographic interviews, meeting the consumer where they are. one of the things I absolutely loved about Colgate is always going into consumers' homes. I look back at my career, I can say I've been in consumers' homes in at least 15 different countries. I had my global position, we were doing qualitative interviews in Taiwan and in
Philippines as well as Africa. And it really helps to understand brands and it helps to understand the people who are buying or using your brands.
three months ago, I had an experience at Bel and I was speaking to one of our fellow marketers I was just saying, you know, they said, well, what are you passionate about, about consumer insights? And I said, well, going into consumers homes. know this person has been in marketing for over 10 years.
And they said, I've never done that. And I knew their history and I knew the brands that they work for very large brands. I you've never done that. And they said, I've always wanted to do that, but every company I've worked at, that was the first thing that they cut in their budgets. And so I was in this meeting with all marketers from Bel, as well as the strategic insights team. And it was a three hour meeting and I didn't pay attention to the meeting at all. All I did.
was sit down and map out how can I do this for my Bel marketers in a relatively short manner. So my timeline, that meeting that I sat in that I told you I didn't pay attention to, that was in the beginning of March. And by the beginning of April, I had every single Bel marketer in at least two consumers homes. And I created something called Consumer Connect Day. I got the buy in from my CMO.
The second I sent her a note, I don't even think she had time to read the note. It was just a huge response of yes, with about 15 exclamation points. Then took it to the general manager and she said, Amy, this is something I've always loved to do too. And so, you know, the senior management at Bel is very supportive of anything you want to do. And so what I did is I mapped it out. I met a great supplier recruiter that I've known for a very long time and we mapped out, you know, how are we going to take
27 Bel marketers in one day in all different consumers' homes across Chicago, and then bring them back. to my most important part is to really have a debrief session. So a debrief session on what they learned, what were their ahas, what have they never seen before from a data perspective. We have a lot of data in the company. We have some great data in the company. But I realized a lot of the marketers are just spending time
looking at data not necessarily talking to
So on that day, I had people, I had them do the interviewing. I didn't have moderators do it. I had them take ownership of interviewing these consumers. I wrote a discussion guide, worked with a moderator to develop a great discussion guide and some points on where to take consumers. But I made them go into the consumer's pantries. I made them go into the consumer's refrigerators and freezers, take pictures of everything, and then report back.
And so the most important part was that debrief session where you can just, you have felt the energy in the room. energy was so exciting. The fact that some of these people were like, my gosh, I got to talk to a baby bell consumer who's consuming 20 baby bells a week. And now I understand why and where they're consuming it. And it was also really important for me to say, okay, well, what are you going to do in the next 30 days for your are the insights that you learned?
What are you going to do the next 30 days? What can you do the next and any future innovations? And so what we did is we created a roadmap for our three cheese brands of, what were the new insights that you learned? And it was amazing. It was energetic. But the most important thing was that Monday morning meeting that I had one of the brand directors come to me and said, Amy, I just had one of my people.
discuss how they were in consumers homes last week and this is what they learned and this is the action that they're taking and they were having a conversation with somebody from sales. So it was not only just spending a day with consumers, but it was also like giving them a new light on who their consumer was and how they can change things within marketing or within sales or how we're showing up to consumers. So that to me is a huge passion point.
but also a project that really, really proud of. So now, you know, sometimes you're so proud of these projects and you tell people or you put something on LinkedIn. And what has happened is the organization has asked me to do this another time. So we're going to do it in Q3. And we want to make sure that we're doing this at least two to three times a year, as well as, you know, now it's considered a best practice within Bel. And
I have my boss saying to me, Amy, I want to roll this out everywhere in the world. So it was just that one simple insight of somebody saying, I've never been in a consumer's home and it haunted me. But now I'm transitioning into like the positive out of it is great. We're going to make sure that we have more consumer connections than we've ever had before.
Jess Gaedeke (06:03)
Yeah.
And that actionability is so important. So I'm glad that you mentioned that the most important part is, okay, what are you actually act on? And I'm just curious because, know, as insights professionals, sometimes we take for granted that our stakeholders, they kind of understand or they have observed certain behaviors that, again, you're saying they've never actually seen it. So can you share just one of the ahas, like one of the things that you heard one of these team members say that they just had this light bulb moment once they were actually in the consumer's home and they really got it?
Amy Baer (06:06)
Absolutely.
Absolutely, absolutely. And I couldn't agree more. It is so important. Like I took it for granted that this was happening all the time. I took it for granted that people understood who their consumers were. And now it's one of those things that I'm like, okay, I'm going to take everything at face value. One interesting discussion is someone marketing from our laughing cow team went in a consumer's home.
so laughing cow is a round box that has triangle wedges of cheese. The box itself has this cute little red ribbon that you just need to pull to open the top of the box. And then the top of the box looks like almost a hat top that you could just take easily on and off. Well, one of the ah-has our team member had was that this consumer
who has said she's been consuming laughing cow for at least seven or eight years, never knew about this little red strip around the top that would help take the top off super easily. woman actually uses a knife to cut off the top of the cheese. you know, someone took that back and said, okay, an action ability perspective, we can't assume that people know how to open this, as well as maybe we need to make that little
red string a little bit longer or have a tab on the end to make it super easy for somebody just to open the box of cheese. So again, a very simple thing that we took for granted. We took for granted that everyone would know how to open this, but yet I'm sure that one consumer actually reflects hundreds of consumers out there that don't know how to properly open the box of cheese.
Jess Gaedeke (08:09)
This next story, it might be one of my most memorable conversations that I had because it was one of the most unexpected insight really heard across all seasons. his time at Johnson & Johnson, Pabhi Gupta, he participated in what he called a weird immersion, and it was at an alligator farm. Somehow it led to breakthrough understanding of how consumer behavior really changed how they approached contact lenses. So check this one out again.
Pavi Gupta (08:33)
So the alligator farm person came to us and at the venue and he got a baby alligator with
And
baby alligator was cute but still scary.
got this baby alligator and you know,
were discussing, used to like sit in small groups and we were discussing with them on the table and you had the baby alligator sitting in front of you on the table and some people were brave. They would just like, you know, try to pet or touch the alligator and I didn't have the courage and there were other people who were
and so we came on that insight and the insight was what we described it as irrational fear.
Jess Gaedeke (09:09)
Mm.
Pavi Gupta (09:09)
Right?
So this was irrational fear. The alligator, other people touch, nothing happened. The alligator's mouth is taped up. They're not going to bite. It's a baby
They are cute. Babies are cute. And even a baby alligator is cute. But you still have the irrational
of, don't want to do this. So it's irrational. It's not rational. And the analog was with contact lenses that, you know, there is, actually created a word for it. We call it pocophobia. I don't know if that like Oxford dictionary.
included that or not. But there is this insight around people having pochophobia because they feel you need to put your lenses in their eyes and they feel they're going to gouge their eyes. They feel they're going to poke their eyes and it's going to be bad and they just can't get themselves to do it. And so that was it. And we were like, that is irrational fear, because it doesn't really like, like there is no case, there's no medical evidence of that happening. And it's not as if people actually intentionally gouge their eyes and it's super safe.
the number of people using contact lens, number of times in a day, number of people or eyes that it has touched and hands it has touched and with no incidents at all, right? So it's completely irrational. And then we said, okay, how do we activate against this insight? Because that is one of the barriers towards
Jess Gaedeke (10:13)
Right.
Pavi Gupta (10:21)
then that led to a campaign
And in the campaign idea, like actually as we were doing more work as follow-up, we figured that
consumers in their minds who had never actually touched a contact lens used to feel like contact lenses are very hard. They would be made of glass and therefore they would, when I put them in the eye, like it's going to feel and that's why it might poke my eye or it might hurt my eye. And so in the group discussion itself, we handed them some real contact lenses to play with.
And contact lenses are very squishy. They're like made of like, most of them is water actually, it's silicon with water, right? So they're extremely hydrated. And so
very soft and squishy. And some people might have remembered old times, contact lenses used to be reasonably hard. And now,
times have changed, the technology is so much
And
like when people start like touching and feeling, and the campaign was called Touch Me, it's like, okay, touch me and you'll be surprised. And you were surprised.
Then we started doing candid cameras and like, of course, take the consent and build that into the campaign. And that was the entire story around addressing this barrier,
Jess Gaedeke (11:24)
Right.
Pavi Gupta (11:28)
know, which came from the insight around irrational fear.
Jess Gaedeke (11:30)
Yeah,
my gosh. Okay, so let's go back to the alligator farm because I was
sure where that was going to go. And I am excited to learn where it went. But that idea of irrational fear and that sort of coming out of this experiential
Pavi Gupta (11:37)
You
Jess Gaedeke (11:46)
that your team had. Do you think if that session would have been, I don't know, at Walt Disney World and you've done something totally different that you would have arrived at a different insight?
kind of talk a little bit about
you know, was that just a fortuitous experiential outcome or
there thinking going into it, let's do it at an alligator farm because we want to see how uncomfortable people can be.
Pavi Gupta (12:08)
Yeah, so
I think it's a mix, right? I think there is some element of serendipity in terms of like how you set it up and that particular incident or instance or something happens and then you have this,
wow, that's the insight, right? And again, many times I say like insights are hiding in plain sight. It says that you never took time out to like really think what was happening. Everything's happening kind of in the moment and motion and you don't like sometimes think so deeply about it. So
doing these kind of immersions and doing this deeper, that is the part which is the organized part of it. It is intentionally slowing yourself down. It is intentionally observing your settings. It's intentionally trying to make sense of what are people doing and the psychology or the psyche of consumers and human beings. So that's the intentional part. The fortuitous part is like, yeah, this was an alligator farm we hit on that inside. Like, what if we did something else? And then we would have it. So what you do is,
you do multiple immersions. You just don't do
Right? So you try to hedge your bets and you say, what are the different type of weird immersions you could do?
Jess Gaedeke (13:07)
Right.
Pavi Gupta (13:12)
And so
in this very example, we did another one was with a smart home builder. And you're like, okay, how does a smart home builder relate to contact lenses? You know, and then we came on another insight and I could like, could do another podcast on it, but the headline on it was, you know, what we call a signs of agitation.
So the smart home
said, hey, have like, because this is high value that I sell and I have a sales team and I want to keep an eye on what's going on. And then I look for signs of agitation where I feel my sale is not going through. And that's when I know I need to step in and that signs of agitation is true. Everybody eventually drops out of contact lenses, but it doesn't happen overnight. You don't wake up one morning and say, I'm done. I'm not wearing these again.
Jess Gaedeke (13:44)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Pavi Gupta (13:57)
Like, yes, it eventually does, but there is like, there are signs of agitation. You have one bad moment and another one and another, and then you give up. And so that was the insight to say, like, can we capture those signs of agitation early? Then you can address them because by the time then it becomes a dam and the dam breaks and then you're done. Like then you're done. You're out of the category. By the way, not only are you out of the category, the likelihood of your kids going into the category goes down dramatically because then as a parent,
Jess Gaedeke (14:12)
Right.
Right.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Pavi Gupta (14:25)
You know, this like we
statistically probe that like then as a parent, you're like, I'm not going to let my kid into it because from my experience, this was not a good experience. So it's not only for that person, but it's also for the future generations or the negative word of mouth that that's going to create.
Jess Gaedeke (14:33)
Bye.
Right, wow, okay, that's really, really compelling. And then I was thinking about this irrational fear and how then you went to activate against that. And I imagine in categories where the product experience just does have such a physical and almost a visceral type of reaction,
do you think about developing things like creative and things that you can actually kind of communicate and demonstrate to the consumer?
that it actually will be a positive sensory experience.
do you do that in a conceptual way?
Pavi Gupta (15:09)
Yeah, that's a very tough one, Jess. Yeah, it's a really tough one.
again, there was in this particular case, we used like empathy voice of the consumer, right? To kind of build, by the way, one of the other themes that we addressed this again with the youngsters, the barriers are even higher, right? And then the youngsters.
they are not like the teenagers or, know, pretties, they are not able to learn from adults how to put the contact lenses in and
Because again, it's like an adult teaching and they're like, you don't understand my life. My hands are tiny. You know, I don't have the same motor skills that you do. Like they don't say that, but that those end up being barriers for them. don't relate that well. And then someone hit on the idea. think there was some influencer doing
I don't know, was it Lego or one of the metal toys? And it was actually kids talking about their experience of, and so that was another nugget we got from there. And then we applied that here and we said like, hey, let's look out. And sure enough, there were some influencers like younger teens who actually were putting their content out to help teens with grooming or like tips and all of that. And so we did like a segment on contact lens because
Kids will listen to kids better. They will relate better. So I think that could be one way to address it, which you try to kind of say,
mirror neuron system and have them relate to, you know, who's the person saying it and they can relate to that. They can put themselves in their shoes and then they can do that. That could be one kind of a workaround. The other pieces, again, we also built what was called as the AccuView experience, which was like built an entire program around the experience elements, right?
And that's when you say, how do you build an ecosystem? And how do you recognize
the entire experience of the product is an important thing? It really matters.
And how do you amplify the good moments? And how do you address them when they have problems?
VR
glasses for me. And as we were doing that, and I was like, imagining and like, she, she, she has very keen insight and, she was like, yeah, one of the use cases for you, Pavi you are in this space could be, we could visualize data for you in a VR, you know, and then that could be the way you could
see,
like people could actually say, I want to go in and actually drill more into this versus that. And again, I haven't seen too many of those come to light, but
I can imagine that those kind of exciting things can be, you know, the minority report could be real, you know, in terms of where this goes.
Jess Gaedeke (17:29)
Absolutely.
Jess Gaedeke (17:30)
One thing that came up again and again this season was the tension between innovation and protecting what consumers already love about a brand. In this next clip, one of our favorites, Doug Healy from Kraft Heinz, he explains why some legacy brands don't need reinvention nearly as much as marketers think they do.
Douglas Healy (17:48)
so within PepsiCo is a little bit of a unique animal, right? It's a health and wellness business in a world of like soft drinks snacks, things like that. so there was this constant push of like, how do we take it to the next level? How do we grow? And so we had some great come into the organization. And what would happen is every single time we'd have a new leader,
would be, well, the problem with Quaker is the a brand that people love. Like we had a leader come in and say, to make Quaker people love. did some research and we found was more loved than any other food brand out there, any. And then people didn't even believe it. They're like, okay, well, what about in the broad world? we had to do more and found out the Quaker brand is more loved than Apple, Google and people.
stunned, why not the must be Man, Which as Larry. Yeah, it's less interesting. It turns out it was just like the name of a project. Like somebody.
Jess Gaedeke (18:36)
why Larry? Who came up with that?
Douglas Healy (18:44)
called a project, Project Larry, and then it got associated with him. And then because it was kind of quirky and funny, it stuck internally. I'm pretty sure his formal name is Quaker Man, but I don't work for the company anymore. So I don't have to abide by the rules. but yeah, so those who don't know the Quaker Man is literally a Quaker, Dressed in old garb, you know, has white hair, older man, a bigger build. so leaders would come in and
Jess Gaedeke (18:59)
Yeah,
Douglas Healy (19:11)
Consistently, would be like relates to the Quaker man, it's old, like we need to be modern, we need to be more relatable to nowadays. again, this would happen every single time a new leader came in. so every single time we would do the work. And it turns out that not only is Larry the Quaker man, not the is.
one of the single greatest distinctive assets in food marketing today. Quaker Man for purity, wellness. Like is a breakfast business and reliability. Like all of these things are just natural in the subconscious consumer. yet every time people were like, well, young people don't want to see this older person. And it's like,
Jess Gaedeke (19:43)
Reliability.
Douglas Healy (19:56)
actually do, Like, this is where insights can be bad, right? ask young people if they care about the Quaker man, they'll say no. if you show young people images of the Quaker man, mind goes to wholesomeness and purity. you don't have to have updated version of the Quaker man either. You don't have to trim his chins. You don't have to make it like have a modern haircut. Like it is the classic connection.
the roots of the brand. And I'll say this all goes to like, while it started in Quaker, had the privilege of working on a number of like heritage brands, classic brands, be it Gatorade, at Kraft Heinz, right? We're named after two of them. consistently what I hear from people literally was having this discussion yesterday about one of our businesses of, do consumers care we invented cream cheese?
Yes, they do. 100%. And it's one of those things, if you ask a bad question, you'll get a bad answer. If you go ask consumers, do you care that they'll know? Who cares? if you tell the story as a Gatorade, we would do this all the time. We had leadership telling us, Z does not care that Gatorade invented sports drinks for athletes. Does not care, do not waste the time telling that story. And then we did the work, and of course they do. one of those things where,
you have an origin story, when you created a category, when you the story of how invented and cheese as a comfort, easy, affordable food for completely changes the mindset of corporates something humanized and meaningful and purposeful. so of my colleagues,
Lindsay Klint, who I've with on Quaker, on Gatorade, now here at Kraft Heinz conference planners are listening, we're going to put together a presentation on this and the power of heritage brands. And, know, one the last things I'll say on this is wary of things like modernizing the brand. And what I mean by that is we say, and I say we as like marketers, when we say we need to modernize the brand, what we
mean is we need to make our brand relevant. And so in order to make your brand relevant, need to understand the drivers of the category, you need to understand how your brand achieves versus those things versus not, don't make allow yourself to be surprised by the power of your story. the other problem with modernizing the brand if you a brief and you go to a designer, then you say, the word modern,
Jess Gaedeke (22:18)
of that.
Douglas Healy (22:26)
something different to a designer than it does to us. Like again, because we mean designer is very specific, like modern design is a very specific element of design. And now suddenly you have a heritage brand that's going to the edges of the bell curve as it pertains to like how the brand comes to life, is we're huge heritage brands. We exist in the middle. We need to have broader appeal. so this isn't a problem with
design agencies, there's a problem with us and how we communicate. And so it's just be very careful about the words you use. And again, allow yourself embrace your heritage, understand the parts of it that are really powerful use it to your advantage.
Jess Gaedeke (23:04)
So health and wellness was another huge theme this season, especially as brands try to move as quickly as consumer behavior is changing. In this moment, Jenna Levine from Danone, she shares how her team rapidly developed a product designed around the very real needs emerging from the GLP-1 movement.
Jenna Levine (23:20)
Yeah, so Oikos Fusion is, we call it a cultured dairy drink. It's basically a yogurt drink, but specifically designed for GLP-1 users, or really anyone on a weight loss journey. And what makes it unique is it has this patented blend of protein, leucine, which is an essential amino acid, and vitamin D that helps retain lean muscle mass during weight loss. So imagine you're losing a bunch of weight.
very often your muscle is actually coming off with it. And so there's this kind of common phrase of like, I want to lose weight, not muscle. And so this patented blend really helps solve for that need. And so in addition to this protein blend, we also have prebiotic fiber for digestive health. We have no sugar added or artificials. We have vitamins B3 and B12 for energy, all in a really small format of just seven ounces. So it's a really nutrient dense offering for people that have
pretty small appetites and it's hard to meet those nutritional needs in kind of a small meal.
Jess Gaedeke (24:19)
Yeah, So how did this idea get inspired? Like what sorts of conversations and context was happening at Danone when you guys decided to embark on this?
Jenna Levine (24:28)
Yeah, I think there were kind of a few things that drove this. First and foremost was about a year and a half ago, we were starting to hear a lot about GLP-1. We didn't know much about it, but we were kind of starting to read it in the news. You can kind of hear and feel this trend starting to like bloom, and we kind of felt this surge potentially coming. But like I said, we didn't know much about it. So we wanted to just first explore who are these users, what are their needs, and
how does it actually impact their food consumption? Because obviously weight loss and food consumption are very interconnected. So we started with doing some ethnographies and an attitudes and usage study to just get that foundational knowledge who they are, role that this drug is kind of playing in their journey, and then of course, the role that it has on food and beverage. So that was really kind of the first piece of like, okay, there's something interesting here where we learned that
you know, they have incredibly demanding nutritional needs. You have to continue to hit kind of the protein goals, the fiber goals, the vitamin and mineral goals that any person who's not on a weight loss journey is hitting while having a calorie deficit diet, while having a small appetite, and then also having side effects. So there was clearly an opportunity here to do something different to help this unique audience.
Jess Gaedeke (25:45)
Yeah. And so as you went about approaching that, like what were some of the unique things that you employed, whether methodologically or just some of the ways that you looked to unpack some of those insights, because it has been quite a journey, right? You said 18 months, but I felt like it went fast probably on your end.
Jenna Levine (25:59)
Yeah.
Yeah, totally. I think, and it was less like in the start,
one thing that's been really important for us is actually tracking kind of GLP-1 usage and behavior over time. This is a very dynamic space. It's changing every day. We see headlines coming out around, you GLP-1 supplements or like a pill form. There were access issues Some people have side effects, other people don't. And so I think just keeping a pulse on
One, how dynamic it is, how things are changing, but also not looking at this group as a monolith. Really understanding that people do have differences. I think there's commonalities that we use to help inspire this innovation, but really bringing the empathy and understanding that everyone is different, everyone has different experiences. A lot of these users have been on a lifelong journey and struggle with weight loss. so bringing that empathy, think,
Empathy and tracking are probably the two big things that we had to employ as a part of this entire process.
Jess Gaedeke (27:04)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. you share maybe a surprising insight that you found along the way, know, as you tested different aspects of the proposition? Was there anything that was sort unforeseen?
Jenna Levine (27:15)
I think one surprise was that we were, and we still do kind of include anyone on a weight loss journey, but I think really understanding that a GLP-1 user is actually quite different than someone who is on a weight loss journey and not taking these medications, and they actually have opposite needs, right? So like someone who's on this journey, this GLP-1 journey, has a very reduced appetite. They don't really want to eat. So like small format nutrient dense works.
Someone on a weight loss still needs nutrient dense small format calorie deficit, but there might be more hunger there. There probably is more hunger there, more cravings, more things like that. And so being able to understand that while the solution might work for both audiences, again, that empathy and understanding that their experiences and the way that we communicate with them is probably quite different.
Jess Gaedeke (28:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So do you have different communication strategies for the GLP-1 users and sort of the other weight loss journey population?
Jenna Levine (28:16)
say that we have two distinct strategies, we do have kind of our one marketing strategy that communicates relevant for GLP One users, or anyone on a weight loss journey.
But I do know that we're doing some targeted marketing in the sense of like going after specific GLP-1 user, know, social media accounts, leveraging GLP-1 influencers and nutritionists who specialize in We actually don't have GLP-1 language on pack as a way to be a bit broader in our proposition, but then can be more targeted, like I said, in kind of that surround marketing and who we actually share those messages with.
Jess Gaedeke (28:54)
Yeah. And that's the piece that was hoping you'd mention, because I just think that that's really smart. And it's something that makes it so that the product itself can have that more category level appeal. But then you can go find those specific targets targeting activation. So I think that that makes a lot of did things go wrong as you went to market? Were there any hiccups that you might have faced along the way?
Jenna Levine (29:16)
Yeah, we had a bunch of challenges. I think as with any innovation team, of course, you kind of come across issues. I would say one big challenge was actually in the product development. we were quite fortunate, which is what allowed us to be really agile in coming to market with this, that we had very unique patented science that we could leverage internally for the solution. So we have a specialized nutrition business unit here at Danone.
and they had this patented blend that they were using for other patients more in kind of the healthcare realm. And so we brought that over to the consumer side to use. And so from a proposition perspective, it really resonated, but it actually made the development quite difficult I'm not a food scientist, even though I'm an engineer, but the actual combination of kind of that blend with bringing in kind of yogurt equities and yogurt drink expectations was a challenge. And so,
Thankfully, we have an amazing R &D team here that was able to power through that and really come up with a formulation that works to launch with. But that was definitely a challenge, because I think there was a lot of excitement around the proposition and feeling like we really landed something then, of course, creating the product is the most and actually having something that you can launch with. And so trying to reconcile those two things was a difficult piece to get through.
Jess Gaedeke (30:32)
Yeah.
What a challenge because you can't have the most winning concept, right? The proposition just nails it. It meets a need. And then that actual physical deliverable of the product is just so important. And you're right. You guys have a wonderful R &D team that just doesn't give up, do they? They kept at it.
Jenna Levine (30:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, they really did. It very impressed. mean,
the grit, the agility, all of it. Collaboration.
Jess Gaedeke (30:57)
Yeah. How do you measure this launch? I know it's just early days, but what signals are you seeing so far and when will you step back and say was a successful launch?
Jenna Levine (31:06)
so we are just about a month in. So honestly, it's too early to even kind of give early signals. I just heard yesterday we have like three weeks worth of data, so super I think we're getting some early signs that there is some success, but again, like very early even say. I am personally watching reviews like a hawk. I'm on Walmart's website every day for the three flavors and trying to see what people are But I think just hopefully not only like,
getting that initial buy, but we really look at repeat purchase as definitions of success, making sure that sure, our marketing efforts can help trial and drive that, but if people aren't returning and enjoying the product and actually getting the benefit from it, then we have a challenge there. So success to me will look like having high trial scores, but then high repeat as well, and actually having a product that fuels Oikos business.
Jess Gaedeke (31:58)
Yeah, So GLP-1 users aren't necessarily meant to stay on those medications for the long term, right, in many cases. So how did you think about sort of the connection between those users and this product and this brand and how that might change if they do stop that medication?
Jenna Levine (32:15)
Yeah, it's a good question. So I mean, like I said, this product works for anybody on a weight loss journey or even like a weight maintenance journey. Even me, I'm not actively pursuing weight loss, but I am looking to increase my protein and my fiber and low sugar. And so it's really a product that anyone along their GLP-1 journey can leverage and consume.
But we do at kind of a denoun portfolio level look at that journey and all the different products that we can offer. So fusion is really a strong product for someone, especially in kind of their first three to six months on their drug where they don't really know what to eat, what causes side effects or what might trigger side effects or they're starting to see that muscle mass loss. And so that's a really great proposition to help solve for some of those needs in the first six months or so of the journey.
As we look at people off-boarding, especially because that food noise comes the cravings come we actually have another proposition, which is our new Oikos protein shakes. That's a really strong offering for those off-boarding GLP-1. And so we're starting to kind of play with that as well and targeting some GLP-1 users with the Oikos protein shake as another potential offering to, of course, support you along your GLP-1 journey, but definitely as you come off of it.
Jess Gaedeke (33:31)
that's great. I mean, within the portfolio to have those types of ways to help. I know that Danone just as a company is really good at education for consumers as well. And so I imagine that's part of that strategy is sort of helping the off borders navigate that next phase. So that's wonderful. What's your biggest takeaway from this experience? It's been a huge launch, a great one to add to your resume. What are you taking away from it?
Jenna Levine (33:47)
Yeah, definitely.
I think for me, because this was such an agile approach to innovation, I think from beginning to end, it was about a year. I mean, our agile push was the first six weeks of this. We came into this there's an opportunity here, and we had six weeks to get to a validated concept that could be announced externally. And then again, agile to actually go and develop this is strong collaboration is really the way to do agile work.
And that's getting a really tight core team, knowing who your decision makers are, having respect for each other's and each other's perspectives and POVs. So me coming in with the consumer view, the market view, but then having kind of the brand leads come in and understanding what the brand opportunity is and R &D coming in having those open conversations and deciding together what the best path forward is, is really important. And I think lastly in the collaboration is,
having a vendor you can trust. I mean, you know this, because we worked really closely with Dig And I really think part of the secret sauce of this Fusion launch was our partnership with Dig and our ability to leverage the Upsiide tool. Because didn't have to onboard you every single time we were going through a test or a survey or whatever it might be. It was you guys were in the trenches with us.
providing ideas, thinking through the implications. Like you almost knew before we did what test we wanted to do next. And so that's what really allowed us to work through the consumer insight piece in a really agile and strategic way.
Jess Gaedeke (35:24)
Well, thanks for listening to those memorable moments from this season of Dig In. And before we wrap up, one quick thing we're really excited about, we are launching a brand new podcast called Between Two Joels with our AI experts, Joel Anderson and Joel Armstrong. It's a deep dive into a specific AI topic designed to make AI feel more accessible, practical, and a lot less intimidating. So if you've been curious about AI but haven't known where to start, definitely keep an eye out for that launch coming very soon. They're two of my very favorite people, and it's bound to be entertaining.
and give you some good learning thanks everybody, we hope to catch you next season on Dig In.