Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
To mark 20 years of Stellar Recruitment, our Co-Founders Shaun McCambridge and Robbie McIlraith sat down for a special milestone podcast. From humble beginnings to building one of Australia and New Zealand's most trusted recruitment brands, they share the real stories, lessons, and moments that shaped Stellar into what it is today. It's honest and personal with insights from the last 20 years of connecting great people with great opportunities.
Well, lad, well, today's guests are two men who have built one of the biggest recruitment companies in Australasia from the ground up, and have now been doing it for a whopping two decades. Back in 2006, these two started Stellar Recruitment with a vision of building something bigger than just a recruitment business.
Since then, the company has grown, placing thousands of people into jobs and building a reputation around culture, leadership, and people-first thinking. 20 years building a company together is no mean feat, surviving the pressure that comes with a forever-changing economic climate, and creating a culture that has made Stellar one of the most respected names in recruitment.
On top of being great business operators, these two are also champion lads. It is, of course, the founders of Stellar Recruitment, Sean McCambridge and Robbie McIlwraith. Welcome, lads. Thanks, James. Thanks, James. Good to be here. Geez, that was a big intro for you . Yeah, yeah. No, a hell of a rep, so yeah, looking forward to having a chat.
Did I nail it? Did I get most of that info right? Like- Did Anna write it? Did you
or ? I know . Yeah. Oh, I, I, I mean, it was good. 20 years, though, um, obviously a big timeframe, um, to be running such a, such a big, big operation. Does it feel like 20 years? Yeah, I don't know about you, um, mate, but, uh, it doesn't, it doesn't. Yeah. So it feels like yesterday we're sort of sitting in the small room, um, in those early days, you know, kicking the business off with a bit of a vision, but, uh, the vision at that point in time probably didn't extend 20 years out.
Yeah. Everything you're sort of just trying to get through the first year and try, try and survive, I guess, at, at that point in time. So it does, and it's, it's sort of nice to reflect back over the last 20 years. You probably don't stop and reflect often enough along the way. Yeah. You sort of keep focusing on the next thing, the next goal.
So it is nice to sort of sit down and take the time to sort of reflect on things, isn't it? And you two started from high school, so it's been a- Yeah ... long relationship. You've known each other for a long time. Mm. Since we were 14, basically, yeah. 14 years old. Yeah, down at Kings. Oh, true. Yeah. Yeah, I was at the hostel at Kings and, uh, Sean was a, a day boy, so got to know each other pretty well.
And were you good mates at that age or? Yep. Yeah, we knew each other really well and had a similar friend group and, um, yeah, both pretty involved in sport and that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. How'd you go at sport? Yeah, not too bad. I played a bit of rugby. Yeah. Uh, I never played cricket early on at primary school, but, uh, yeah, got introduced to cricket in third form, so, uh, wasn't too flash at cricket, so.
Stuck to the old tennis actually. Oh, did you play a bit of tennis? Played a bit of tennis, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And go all right at that? Yeah, ended up being, uh, number two in the school. Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. So we went interschools and stuff, so. Oh, far out. And rugby, what position? Yeah. Bit of footy. Uh, in the backs actually.
Uh, yeah, center through high school. That was probably a good 20 kilos ago. Yeah. And, uh, it moved to the wings for the prem rugby. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, sweet. And did you? You've, you're- Yeah, I played. Nowhere near the standard of Robbie. Robbie's a bit faster and a bit more talented than me with the, with the rugby.
Oh, was he? No, no, he's, uh, no, I sort of- Was he a gam? Yeah, yeah, he was, he's pretty handy. He, he went well. Um, yeah, so enjoyed my rugby. That's obviously where Rob and I met, um, playing for the, the King's Colts, the mighty King's Colts in '95, I think it was. Yeah. So that's when we sort of first got connected, so that's where I guess the relationship started.
So enjoyed that, but yeah, probably cricket was more my sport. Yeah. You know, so played first, uh, first 11 and, and a bit of, uh, club cricket after that, which was good. Batter or bowler? Both? Bit of an all-rounder. Uh, yeah, bit of both, but probably more batter- Yeah ... towards the back end of things. So no, it was good.
We had some good mates and, and it was a good time, and yeah, it was a good way to sort of, you know, uh, compete, and I think that was sort of the foundations in a way of style. It was sort of like that camaraderie and- Yeah ... mateship and having a goal and trying to beat the competitors and- Yeah ... and that team sort of culture, so.
So what was your pathway from school? Yeah, we sort of took two different directions. Mm. Like, uh, we both, uh, flatted together when we were at university. Um, I sort of finished up a year before Robbie finished his survey degree. I did a commerce degree. Oh, yeah. And then I took off to Aussie, um,
to sort of, you know, go over there and sort of, um, experience life over there and, and sort of try and kick off the career. So did that, fell into recruitment And Robbie went in a different direction. He finished and went up to Auckland and, and worked as a cadastral surveyor, but sort of stayed in touch and, and Robbie reached out one day and said, "Oh, maybe ready for a bit of a change, and we thought about going to the UK, but maybe we'll go to Australia as a bit of a halfway location and check it out.
Can you get us a job?" So got him a job in, uh, mighty Blackwater. Um, so- Okay ... a big coal mining town. So, uh, the temperatures there get probably closer to 50 some days than they do- ... to 15 or whatever in, in Auckland. So I think the big fella might have dropped a few of those, those kilos in that humidity, mate.
But, uh- So ... yeah, I don't know what your early recollection, uh, we sort of, uh, post that we sort of started sharing some of those ideas around starting the business, didn't we? Yeah, I guess recruitment's a bit unique for me. Yeah. Uh, coming out of the industry and, um, you know, Sean had been in a recruitment company for a number of years first, and just learning off him and our other, other business partner, Shane, at the time.
And, um, you really enjoyed it, just that consulting piece at the time, and we sort of found a little niche for ourselves, didn't we- Mm ... early on. Um, sort of between the, the bigger tier companies and the smaller boutiques. Mm. So that was our sort of structure at the time to, um, you know, really push the, um, I guess the capability of our business and, and take on some of those bigger, bigger players.
Yeah. And, uh, you know, lucky enough, um, you know, throughout the journey, we, um, I guess grew across Australia originally and then into New Zealand, and that saw us move home in 2015 with the family, which was pretty cool as well. Oh, yeah. It's go- Yeah ... what was the process once you've got your vision, you... How do you first start?
How do you jump into starting the business? Yeah. I, I think at the time we're just getting going, you know, just like- Yeah ... um, this, you know, drive our given market. Sean had come from the mining background originally in, in recruitment, so I took a bit of a lead in that space, and he, um, went across to infrastructure and, uh, we just sort of pushed in those markets first and then grew the team to sort of 15, 20 staff.
And at that point in time, you need to have some systems and processes and- Yeah ... and middle management to, to go to the next level. And we're lucky to sort of develop some good people early on and, you know, built that capability, and then we brought in key, um, sort of managers across our different, uh, business support disciplines- Mm, mm
which really helped grow the business. I guess that challenge of, um, bringing people in and trying to keep growing it- Mm ... bringing in more staff and just growing slowly and slowly- Mm. Yeah ... the balance of that Yeah, I think our philosophy at the time was to try and beat the competition really and, and, and be a bit of a unique environment, and that's kind of centered around hiring the right people.
Yeah, yeah. And, and hiring like-minded people, which, you know, can be a challenge at times. And, you know, we're a people services organization largely, and, um, their customer experience is so important. Mm-hmm. So, you know, capability, you know, team culture is really, um, what we sort of focus on. What's the process to hire and recruit- Yeah, good question
people for your staff? Actually, we are a recruitment company ourselves. Yeah. And we're not shy to, um, you know, pay fees to other agencies to find people for us, the director mix. But, um, yeah, it's multi-stage. I mean, some, some people give us feedback about the, you know, four or five, six interviews, but it's important to get the team involved- Mm
at the same time. 'Cause, you know, coming from a team sport background like yourself, James, I mean, one bad egg can sort of influence a team- Yeah ... in a negative way. So you certainly get the team involved there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Have you had to have any difficult, um, decisions or to, to get rid of someone early, or have you ever hired a bad egg where you've felt this could, we need to get rid of this before it- Yeah
get worse? We, we had a situation probably three, four years in where, um, you know, one of our clients had a bad experience with a staff member, and we probably jumped to a few conclusions early on and, and didn't necessarily follow the right HR process at the time. You know, a bit naive to it all. Yeah, yeah.
But, you know, we certainly learnt through that journey and, um, yeah, we've got good infrastructure in place now and good processes and especially on the HR front, you know, that's really, um... Over the years it's sort of, um, you know, tightened up a bit- Yeah ... around process, so. Yeah. Yeah, but no, we don't always get it right.
But more often than not, obviously the team that you've got at the moment, um, sounds like it's a awesome environment to work and everyone loves it. Um, you're doing a good job with who you've hired and the, the culture that you've built in there. Yeah, I think we've got a, a really good culture at the moment.
I mean, it sort of ebbs and flows at different times, but you know, we've now got a number of people that have been with us in excess of 10 years. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So they've been sort of living and espousing the values probably as much or, or more than Robbie and I some days- Yeah ... uh, on that side of it.
So I think we've got Scott in WA, he, he be with us, uh, 18 years now, you know? Far out. So it's a long time in this day and age where sort of people tend to sort of move around a little bit. Yeah. Uh, but we're a little bit lucky I think in the beginning because when we started the business, we essentially had three customers back us from day one.
Mm. And I think two of them, uh, Marty and then also Terex, they paid us half the fee up front. So for three battlers at the time to have- Mm ... two customers to pay us half the fee up front, I think that was a bit of belief and it certainly helped from a cash flow point of view. Yeah. And I come from another recruitment company, so we're sort of able to sort of pick the, the eyes out of that business a little bit.
Some of my former team members that we knew were tried and tested. Yeah. So we sort of had that customer support early on. We, we sort of de-risked some of those early hires, didn't we, with Jackie and Anthony and some of- Yep ... those people, uh, that really sort of enabled us to sort of kick off. Um, and that first year really, it was a, it was a struggle, but it was pretty good looking back on it.
I think we, we paid ourselves... I don't think we, I think we paid ourselves nothing for a beginning. You know, I think we paid ourselves a whopping $2,000 a month for a beginning. Yeah, it was nothing for six months, wasn't it? Yeah. 'Cause my wife had, uh, just got a job at the bank at the time and- Oh, true ... living off her wage and we just- So you-
bought a house. ... got a mortgage and that's, that's... I'm thinking, "What have we done here?" Yeah. You know? And did you have kids at this point? No kids from that, no. No kids. No. No, no, no. No. That's, uh, yeah, so that was '06. Yeah. Well, no, so kids come along a little bit after that. Yes. And you, you mentioned like the length of some of the people who have stayed there.
Mm. And it's obviously down to how well you treat them, you look after them. Is that a conscious effort? Like, how do you make sure people feel welcome and, um, I guess at home and, and at Stellar? Yeah, I think back to that culture point, um, I think most people want to build their culture- Mm ... within an environment, typically.
And, uh, for me, it's about nurturing, you know, that environment to make sure people can be the best version of themselves. Yeah. And, uh, giving people a bit of career direction. And what I've really enjoyed in recent years is sort of that coaching piece as well. You know, just trying to shift people's mindsets a bit.
Yeah. And everyone's got potential inside them, right? So we're just trying to real- realize that potential really. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. So your day-to-day role at the moment is, what, what's your- Yeah. Oh, ebbs and flows. Depends on the day, right? Yeah. A lot of business administration, but, um, yeah, I'm lucky enough at the moment, I, I look after New Zealand, Shaun's Australia.
Yeah, okay. And, um, you know, for, for me personally, it's probably the best team we've ever had. Oh, yeah. Sweet. And we've been lucky probably the last three or four years, we've just had the right people in the right seats, and, and we've just sort of grown around them, to be fair. Mm. And, um, a lot of our corporate support staff, you know, HR, um, business support, um, safety, et cetera, have all grown within the business, so it's really cool seeing them sort of take a lead on their department.
Yeah, that's cool. And, um, yeah, I think your leadership style is really important. Yeah. You know, to be able to have that sort of, um, you know, fostered environment where people can sort of, you know, go out and try things. If they fail, it's okay. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm. Because they learn from that, you know. Mm. Are you the, the same, but just over in Aussie basically?
You got the same roles but just different sides of the Tasman, or? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, s- similar. Um, I mean, I'll probably spend qui- I get a lot of enjoyment out of sort of the customer focus stuff- Okay, yeah ... and the strategics sort of. So I spend probably, uh, a lot of my time, you know, with existing customers, trying to grow or support them i- in a better fashion and, and trying to win new customers.
Yeah. And support our team with that sort of sales or relationship sort of piece. So I spend a lot of time probably focused on that. Um, and like Robbie said, we've got some really good capable people, you know, looking after other aspects of the business over in Australia as well. Yeah. Um, and I think, you know, without knowing it at the time, we're pretty lucky when we kicked off that Robbie and I did have sort of complementary skill sets.
Robbie's always been organized and structured and disciplined and really good at executing things. Mm. I'm not as good at that type of stuff. But, you know, sort of the bigger picture, the customer engagement, trying to win, you know, clients and sort of drive revenue is something that I really enjoy. I enjoy that sort of competitive aspects, trying to beat our competitors and all that sort of stuff.
So- Yeah ... yeah, without knowing it at the time, I think we did have complementary skill sets. And you don't always know, you know, when you start a business- Yeah ... how it's gonna go, but I think fortunately there was some complementary aspects, yeah. Yeah. And people often say don't go into business with like family or your best mates- Oh, yeah
but you guys have obviously lasted the, the whole 20 years it's been so far. Like what, what have you put that down to? Yeah, I mean, I think, um, yeah, we have got complementary sort of skill sets. Yeah. And I think we are, you know, we're both driven, we're both motivated, um, we're both really invested in helping our team grow and develop.
Um, we've both also been invested in ourselves, sort of, I think you've got to keep investing in yourselves- Yeah ... to enable the business to grow. Uh, you know, you make stuff ups along the way and, and you have things you've got to work through, but I think we've always sort of tried to, you know, talk through those things, uh, put the ego to the side and always sort of focus on what's best for business and- Yeah
how do we get through those things. Um, so I think, yeah, and, and really probably not really holding grudges. You know, you sort of- Yeah ... you work through scenarios and go, "It is what it is." You know, you cop it on the chin or, or, or you listen to the feedback and you move on because you want to, you know, we want to keep going towards the goal.
Yeah. Has there been a few moments with healthy tension or even maybe unhealthy tension between you both where you felt, "Oh, not sure"? Yeah, I think you've, you've got to have those conversations, don't you? Yeah. And I think ultimately people want to be heard. So like Shaun said, we're big on sort of, um, putting our point forward and, and, and a lot of the time it's not just about us either.
Yeah, yeah. It's about the wider team. Mm. And, you know, same style over here with, with the team in New Zealand. It's about, you know, bringing these guys around the table, you know, empower them to, you know, make decisions. Mm. Because if you don't do that, you know, it's not all about me in the end. Yeah. Because otherwise the business doesn't grow.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we always had the belief, you know, moving on from that a little bit, that if we help our team members, uh, grow and reach their potential, then hopefully they're in a good place and they can help the business succeed, succeed. And then likewise with clients and candidates, sometimes I think in business or recruitment you can be a bit transactional, but we sort of took the view, well, if we help our clients and candidates win- By default to that we should win as a business.
Yeah. So we sort of felt like we were the by-product of some of those other things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's really great seeing some of our team members sort of grow and develop and, you know, go on to kick some good goals and sort of, you know, some of the cool things they've been able to do in their lives- Yeah.
Mm ... as a result. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool feeling, eh? It, it feels like you're, you're basically coaches of these players. Mm. It's a little bit like- Yeah. It's like it ... what I get with coaching where you- Yeah ... you see someone progress and- Yep. Yeah ... it all helps the team and- Yeah ... um. No. Well, I still remember, uh, maybe you do as well, mate, you know, we're a bit dusty.
Uh, we'd just done a personal development course down in Melbourne. A bit rusty in- We missed our flight too ... we missed our flight. Yeah, we were that rusty. We sort of, uh, missed the flight. But, uh, w- I just remember Robbie going, "Well, what are we doing this for?" And, uh, I've gotta
be honest, the old cognitive, uh, function, it wasn't quite there But anyway, where we landed was, you know, we really wanted to sort of help people, you know, reach their potential. Yeah. You know, and, and if we can sort of create an environment where we do that, then, you know, it's a pretty, pretty cool environment, be fulfilling and all the rest of it.
Mm. So remember when you articulated, uh, that I thought, you know what, that, that's a pretty cool thing to go after. Yeah. You know, I think that's sort of what's held us in good stead along the way because, you know, I think, uh, you never really get there. There's always an opportunity to help someone, you know.
Yeah. And everyone has their moments and all that sort of stuff. Mm. So it's been a good thing to focus on. I think that's what sort of, you know, you sort of feel as fresh now 20 years on as what you did in the beginning. Yeah. It's cool. Because there's, there's a nice feedback loop when you see people get through a hurdle, come out the other side, it's, uh, it's really nice, isn't it?
Mm. Mm. And I guess also ter- I mean, in terms of the industry, we work in recruitment, you know, we're dealing with people, we're dealing with client- Mm ... and a job seeker and, you know, people are unpredictable. So it's not easy at times, and I think, um, you've got to really support staff and, and ultimately if they're passionate about it, you know, they will succeed.
Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. And also, like linking up sort of their personal drivers at home, whether it's goals, you know, going on holiday, et cetera, to what they can do at work to achieve that's important too. Mm. Yeah. Was there a time when you felt like you were onto a winner here? Like, you knew Stellar was gonna be a success?
Like, was there a moment, might have been early on or a little bit later where you knew? Oh, I mean, to be fair, the first six/seven years were more or less flawless. Oh, okay. And, and it wasn't like it landed on our lap, I think. Yeah. Market conditions were favorable, but there was plenty of other people doing the same things as what we were.
Mm. So we were going well, like revenue, profitability offices opening, sort of felt like we had the Midas touch- Oh, that's fun ... on Affika Midas. Yeah. Um, and we're a bit like- And the GFC got in the way for a little bit. Yeah, there was a- For a period ... little blip on that, you know. Yeah. Six months. But it taught us a lot though- It did
at the same time. Yeah, yeah. So we sort of felt like, you know, we're going pretty good in this business, you know? Yeah. Um, and then we had a big prolonged sort of commodities crisis over in Australia, which is a big part of, massive part of our business. Yeah. Um, and then that whacked us, you know, so that was a bit of an eye-opener that, you know, we've still got a bit to learn here.
Yeah. You know, wasn't it, you know, and we sort of got through that. But yeah, we've been through so much. I mean, uh, global financial crisis, obviously COVID. Yeah. Um, there was a wave of class actions coming at a bunch of recruitment companies, so we had to navigate that. Uh, there's just been so much, you know, commodities changing, um, earthquakes, you name it, you know.
Yeah. So I think when you start a business, you don't really put that in the business plan. You sort of just see the, you know, the beautiful- Yeah, yeah ... outlook and it's just gonna go like a straight line from start to finish. So there's been some stressful moments along the way, but, um, yeah, fortunately, you know, 20 years on- Yeah
we've been able to navigate those things. How do you get through those moments? What's, what's the key? Well, I think the GFC for us taught us a lot in the sense we, everyone was freaking out. Yeah. It was a financial crisis in the mining sector where they needed money to, to expand their projects, you know.
Yeah. And I guess we just stuck close to our customers during that time and, and really listened to them because they're the ones at the coalface, not, not listening to media, for example. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I guess you build resilience. The more you go through, the more resilience you've got. Mm-hmm. And I think, again, it's back to probably just that team approach too.
I mean, um, you know, we're, we're a big enough business now. We've got some good, I guess, um, you know, management in place, and, and they're the ones that are driving the team day-to-day, who are out there seeing the customers and, um, you know, you just got to give them confidence. We've been there before, and we can get through it.
Mm-hmm. Was there a moment where you thought this, we're gonna have to pull pin here, this has got too hard? Oh, I don't know if you quite get there, but there was a time, Robbie, when I went over to Perth in 2014, and we were losing a lot of money. Mm. A lot of money. Yeah. Like, like, a lot of money. And you start to, I don't know about you, you start to think, you know, you've got everything secured against your, your family home and all the rest of it.
Mm-hmm. There's probably, you forecast out what we're losing at the time, and you're like, "Shit, you could lose everything here." Yeah. You know? So that's, that's humbling because, again, you don't think about that when you start a business. Yeah. But then I think you've just got to get in the trenches. You've just got to get in the trenches and work through it and, you know, you don't always feel like you've got the answer, but you just got to stay close to the clients, stay close to the team, and just keep turning up.
Yeah. You know, I think it's no different to sport, you know. I think, you know, when things get a bit tough, you sort of look to hopefully the senior members to sort of step up and get through it all. But yeah, certainly hasn't been all beer and, you know, and beer and skittles and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah. Um, that wa- that was the time I think was probably the hardest. But having got through that, I think gives you a sense of confidence and, and you learn a bit. We're probably a bit slow to react. Oh, yeah. You know? Um- We're holding onto hope too, you know? Yeah, we go, "Shit, it'll, it'll sort itself out."
It'll get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, because the GFC was, like, probably three or four months and we're, we're out of it. Yeah. Where this was like three or four years. Oh, wow. So we're probably carrying a similar strategy, hanging on to people, and then all of a sudden you start to see these red numbers come through on the P&L every, every month.
You're like, "Shit," you know, "If this keeps going, we're in a bit of, bit of trouble here." Yeah. Far out. That's, that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. But you hung in there. You s- you stayed true to the course and- Yeah ... 20 years later. I think the other thing to add to that is, like, you know, Perth is a key hub for the Australian mining sector.
Yeah. You know, if you pull out of Perth, it's a long way to get back there. Yeah. So I guess we sort of held onto that hope to- Mm ... you know, that things would get better and, you know, things have got better. Mm. It's taken a long time, but, um, yeah, it's actually quite hard getting team members in Perth at times- Mm, mm
and other parts of the, uh, the regions. But, um- Mm ... yeah, we've sort of hung in there and things are starting to come through the other side now. Yeah. I guess every setback or the tough times you go through, the more you learn and- Yeah. Yeah ... it just helps your, your growth and- Yeah ... where you are now, 20 years into the business, confident on whatever comes your way, I guess.
Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Still a lot to learn, but yeah, probably a little bit wiser than what we were as those young fellas back, you know, in 2006. Yeah, it's funny when you look back at- Oh ... when you started and- Yeah ... think about some of the decisions you probably made and you're like- Yeah ... "Wow, we were raw." I think in general though, I mean, I went to, um, a lunch one time and Gail Kelly, who was the CEO at Westpac's bank, and this is probably, I don't know, 2012, '13, and, and she sort of said like, you know, the business environment's hitting the headwinds.
Yeah. And those headwinds will be constant. And I think looking back since then, like, you know, the business environment's changed a lot, you know. And I think it's a global economy now and the advent of technology and AI and stuff- Mm ... things are always changing. Mm. So we kind of just, you know, we, we respond to that well in terms of like just the evolution.
Yeah. You know, we've got to adapt. Yeah. And one thing I've heard that you guys do really well is you have these, um, trips or, or is it high achievers trips? High achievers trips. High achiever trips. Yeah, yeah. Which sound like, um, a good sort of do. We talk with high rocks actually, but Yeah. Talk me through those.
How do they, how do they roll? Yeah. So we have a, a list of annual awards, you know, essentially anyone in the business can, can go on those trips. It's not just limited to sort of, you know, the recruiters and all that sort of stuff. So first you gotta win your, uh, your right to go on those sorts of trips. Um, but we've always sort of had that philosophy.
We want people working hard, want people performing. We're not there just to make up the numbers. We wanna win. Yeah. You know, and you gotta, we want people putting in and, and striving to beat our competitions and beat one another and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So that's the environment we wanna create.
But then also we wanna reward people. So, you know, people earn pretty well and there's good perks and a good culture. But one of the things we wanted to do is, you know, have a bit of exclusivity and desire to get on those trips. Yeah. Um, so when we go away on these trips, and we've had some crazy trips over the years.
I mean, geez, from bloody, you know, Las Vegas to Hawaii, to Fiji, and Fiji. We're just out at this place and Kelly Slater turns up, Rachel Hunter turns up, you know. Was this all organized? No, no. It, it was just by sheer chance. So, you know, a couple of young fellas from, you know, um, uh, crew around Dunedin.
You're like, "Geez, how do we, how do we find ourselves in this position?" And pool parties in Las Vegas and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, we've done some great stuff and the guys have a good time. So I think it's important that, you know, we push hard, but we also sort of pause and reflect and acknowledge some of the results.
Yeah. Cool. And it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Is it once a year or how does, how does it work and? Once a year. Nor- normally around sort of October. Oh, yeah. Ish, and that, you know. Yeah. The trouble we face, James, is, um, we've sort of set this high, set this high benchmark with, uh- Yeah. Yeah. Down in Bali and we make it better and better and it's like, been to Bali probably, what, four years in a row now.
And we, we actually can't get away from Bali now, so sort of stuck there. We're stuck, yeah. Like we've signed a long-term deal, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Who decides where you go and what's on, what's on tour? Well, we keep putting it out there to try and change it, but, um, to be fair, all the staff get a bit of a say at the same time and yeah, like I said, it's hard to get away from the Bali trip at the moment, so.
Yeah. Bali's a good spot, eh? Absolutely. And you two go ev- every year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You choose or people know? Is there like a ranking system at- Well, the senior leadership team goes well. Oh, yeah And then those who win the award, yeah. Or awards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so end of financial awards, we sort of publish that or announce that, and then if you're on that trip, then you, uh, if you're, if you get the award on that particular day, you know you're going.
Mm. But during the year, if you hit certain milestones, that triggers entry as well. Yeah. Um, so a few of the people know that they're going already, but yeah, certainly something that everyone looks forward to. Um- That's cool ... everyone comes back a little bit worse for wear. But, uh, not, not a good trip. How big's the crew that go?
What's your traveling party? Last year about 23, I think. Yeah. From- Oh, far out. Okay ... Dunedin, Auckland, Christchurch, and all over Australia, so. Yeah. Jesus, like a springtime. Great, great team. That's you guys recreating your footy holidays. Well, it's a bit like an end of season trip, really. Yeah. Yeah, you got that too.
End of year too. Yeah, too right. Yeah, yeah. You scrape the culture. Yeah. Yeah. And you two run the cater on it or? Uh, well, we tend to stand back a little bit. Um- Yeah, a bit of influence, but yeah, we got other people to show. Yeah, there's a few roles over there, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Run the court session and... No, not quite
that. Yeah. So no- A few, uh, ex-rugby players that- Yeah, yeah. ... the team, and, uh, they try to do court sessions, but we sort of- ... put a stop to that. Rein it in, especially in Bali. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot can go wrong in a place like that. Yeah. Oh, how good. And what about, what about the plans for Stellar going forward?
Like, um, what are the goals? What's the vision? 20 years now, where, where do we see- Yeah, I've had a vision for quite some time about being the number one choice. I think, um, you know, for us about the intent of getting there. Yeah. And I think in New Zealand in particular, I'll speak to that. I mean, um- Mm ... you know, certain markets we're going pretty well, but other markets we want to grow as well.
Yeah. So just create depth in all our markets. Yeah. And then I guess in Australia we're looking at a bit of diversification outside of mining and- Yeah, I mean, big opportunity over there at the moment. You know, obviously got the Olympics in Brisbane- Mm ... which will be massive. Yeah, definitely. You know, the water economy and housing sort of sector's still pretty robust.
There's lots of opportunities. Mining's still steady. Um, WA, you know, really busy at the moment and, and there's a massive skill shortage. Oh, yeah. You know, so something that the guys have done really well over here is the immigration piece. So brought people in, you know, predominantly from the Philippines, which has been, been amazing for the business over there.
Yeah. It's really changed on the back end of COVID. It just, the business just took off. You know, Robin and the guys done a wonderful job. So we're sort of seeing similar dynamics over in Australia at the moment. Oh, yeah. Cool. So, and I think, you know, what drives you is you're never really there, are you? Mm.
You know, you sort of never really... That, that's what motivates you. Like, shit, you know, you get to this and you want to do that, and then you get a little set back and you want to go again. Yeah. So I think, you know, across the business, hopefully there's some good opportunities there. Um, so I think next few years ought to be good, but, you know, yeah, nothing's for, for, for...
You can't take anything as a given. You got to work hard on it. Um, but yeah, I think the outlook's, it's, it's good. Yeah. Things like the Olympic Games and stuff, massive for, for you as a business? Massive. Yeah. I mean, look, there's a shortage over in Brisbane for good tradespeople already. Yeah. Okay. And there, there really has been nothing done on the Olympics, so you're going to have this accelerated program, you know, have this exacerbation of the skill shortage.
So there's no doubt, you know, there's going to be some big opportunities, and the skill set isn't there in Australia, so maybe you might get some Kiwis coming across, you might get people coming from other Commonwealth companies- Yeah ... countries like the UK and Canada and South Africa. But yeah, I think no doubt they'll have to draw on the likes of Philippines and, and those sorts of countries to get, you know, those, those trades that work all over the world- Yeah
and work on some wonderful infrastructure all over the world to help with... You know, it's a bit of a blip, 'cause I think it'll slow down after that a little bit. Yeah. So you, you see the shortage in a, in an area, and your job is to get as many people to fill that shortage as, as possible? Yeah. You sort of try and read the market a little bit, you know?
Okay. Um, a really sad event, obviously, we were here beforehand, a really sad event with the earthquakes here in Christchurch. Mm. But on the back end of that, obviously you needed a, a city that needed to be rebuilt. Mm. So, you know, trying to find trades to help with that rebuild process, it was nice to be part of that in terms of, you know, the, the, the city went through a hard time.
It was nice to get the city back on its feet. But you sort of see that there's supply and demand deficits- Mm ... or sectors that might be a bit more opportunistic, a- and you sort of try and get in there and make the most of it. Mm. In the same in New Zealand, like same opportunities or? Yep. Yeah, on the back end of the earthquake, um, you know, certainly that was a big opportunity.
Yeah. And then, um, I guess we've had a sort of, um, infrastructure deficit for a long time. Mm. So, um, yeah, there's just not enough tradesmen in New Zealand, like the, the Brisbane story too. So, um, yeah, a lot of migrants come in, so we're, we're deploying migrants and, um, I guess that's part of our business. The other part's that sort of, um, you know, white collar- To, to executive level as well Yeah.
Yeah. So in 20 years' time, you guys are back in this seat doing a 40-year reunion chat, what's, what are you gonna be talking about? Yeah. It's another 20 years away. Yeah. No, no, no. Have to be retired by then. Yeah, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a long time away, you know, some days more so than others. But, uh, no, I th- I think when you got a vision like ours, you know, and, uh, you know, uh, with the purpose, you never really get there.
Mm. You know? So you might get there some days or some years or whatever the case potentially, but, you know, the next day or the next year, you're not quite there. Mm. So I think, uh, yeah, hope- hopefully there's some really good people coming through the business and, and there is now, you know, taking on bigger and better opportunities, and we see examples of that every day.
So hopefully 20 years' time we're, we're sort of, uh, maybe parked up on the board or, or something like that, you know, and we're sort of just steering the ship sort of once a month or once a quarter, and we've got some good people running the business or whatever. Yeah. But yeah, I, I think there'll continue to be good opportunities for the business if, if we do the right thing.
Mm. Um, and, uh, yeah, what the next 20 years entails, who knows? But yeah, I think it ought to be bright. And I guess the thing around you, you're both parents. Mm. You've got four and three kids. Mm. How do you, um, juggle that- Being a parent, working so hard on the business, getting that balance right, is it always a struggle?
Yeah, I can switch off pretty easy. So, I mean- Oh, yeah ... I'm down home at 5:00 and just got to be present with the kids. Yeah. Um, they've got busy, uh, sort of sporting programs, so you're trying to get to as many sports matches or, or whatevers I, I can. Yeah, that's easy for you to just get away from the work once you're home.
Yep. You're, you're- Yep, pretty good. Oh, that's cool. And, and again, back to that sort of team, we've got a good team in place. I'm not answering phone calls late at night- Yeah ... but I certainly don't mind doing so. But, uh, yeah, you know, 8:00 to 5:00 and, uh, you know, switch on, switch off. Yeah. Oh, nice. And be present for the family.
And, and then just enjoy the weekends, get away and, you know, see parts of New Zealand, that sort of thing, so. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Same for you? Yeah, I, I think sort of kids force you in a way to switch off. Yeah. You know, because I think once you get home, you sort of, you gotta be on. Yeah. You, you wanna be on, but you gotta be on.
The, there's sports practices, there's homework, there's all that sort of stuff on the weekends. You're basically just an Uber driver. Mm. You know, a spectator- ... you know, which, which is great, you know. So often you sort of, you might take the lap- laptop home with the intent to maybe do bits and pieces, but I'd say 99% of the time I never open it.
Yeah. Because you're just busy with the kids and family stuff and all that sort of stuff, so and then you sort of come in on Monday and I think you're better for it. Yeah. So I think, yeah, kids certainly put different pressures on you in terms of time. Mm. But I think it's good because it sort of forces you to switch off and focus on something else other than work.
Mm. And do you encourage that throughout the workplace? Like, people to get away, make sure they're not constantly on the, on the globe? Yeah, we do. I mean, after 12 months' service, you get another week's annual leave. Oh, yeah. Called RDO. Yeah. And after three years, you get another week as well. Right. So, um, there's additional two weeks leave there for our staff, which we, we try and encourage people to switch off.
Mm. Yeah. I mean, some parts of the business, you know, the consultants for example, some of their desks are quite busy, but we try and have people, um, you know, available to sort of support their desk while they're away. Yeah. That way they can get overseas and turn their phone off and have a decent holiday.
It's de- definitely something you gotta watch. I mean, there's a lot of high-performing people in the business that put a lot of pressure on themselves that wanna win, you know, so I think- They wanna get on that trip ... yeah, they wanna get on the trip. They've got their own goals and all the rest of it. Yeah, yeah.
But I think they are ambitious, so I think you have to sort of, you know, help them with that sometimes 'cause, you know, burnout in our sector is not uncommon. Yeah. You know, so I think just keeping a bit of an eye on that, um, to sort of steer them away from that at times. Um- Yeah ... but yeah, we try and do different things and we encourage, I'd say e- every single day there's someone doing some sort of form of activity in terms of, you know, fitness activity.
You know, people going to the gym, people going for runs. Yeah. We encourage that. We try and do that ourselves. And then, um, sure we're the same over in, in New Zealand, but if, if someone's got some sort of, uh, kid event on, whether it's, you know, getting the water at, at assembly or, you know, they're trying out for a sports team or whatever the case, athletics day, we're like, "Buddy, go and do it.
Enjoy." Yeah. That's cool. We'd be dis- disappointed if they missed out on those sorts of things. Yeah. Yeah, we, we have high expectations a- around output and, and so forth, but, um, if they're getting the results on the board and, you know, it's not really a, a micromanaged environment. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah, recruitment's one of those things- Give them trust
it's very trans- Give them trust, flexibility ... mm, it's very transparent And so as a recruiter, it's very transparent to see if you're going well or not so well. Yeah. You know, so yeah, we try and have that adult environment. So if, if you're going well and performing, then, you know, just show a bit of courtesy in terms of, you know, what you're up to and what you're doing.
Yeah. But, you know, we try and treat them like adults at the end of the day. What's that conversation look like if you're, if you're not performing, you haven't done well for maybe a longer period of time? Yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's not the most enjoyable part of the job- Mm ... you know, on that side of it.
Recruitment, you know, it's a bit different with our business support staff, but recruitment is painfully obvious. You know what I mean? You're either putting in the activities that hopefully should lead to outcomes- Yeah ... and then you look at the outcomes. So it's pretty obvious for both parties on, on that sort of side.
And recruitment's one of those jobs, you know, there is ebbs and flows in terms of the market. Sometimes it's easier, sometimes it's harder. Yeah. But you just can't get away from putting the work in. Yeah. You've just gotta put the work in, and you just can't cheat your way of success. So sometimes you just gotta have that conversation and just draw attention to the facts.
It's not really opinion, it's facts. Yeah. You know, and, and I think for the most part p- people realize that. It's just whether or not they've got the, um, the desire to work through that- Mm ... and just put in the consistent effort because you, you just can't cheat your s- way to success- Mm ... any other way. Yeah.
It's, it's so similar. It's got so s- so many similarities to rugby, eh? It is. It is. You got your player, you put in the work- Yep ... you get the rewards later- Yep ... in the, in the, in the game. Well, you, you, I don't think you can hack success really in, in any aspect of life, right? Business, sport- Yeah ... being a parent, whatever.
You've gotta put the work in. Yeah. Don't you? You don't get it right all the time. You know, there's plenty of mistakes along the way, but you gotta be consistent in what you do and put that work in. There's just no other way to get there. Yeah. Is, is there, like, form slumps? So obviously you have guys who are probably- Yep
really experienced and- Yep ... just going through, like, a- 100% ... bad run of form and- Yep, yep. Yeah, the market can dip, for example. Yeah. And then some people lose confidence as well, you know? Yeah, yeah. And sometimes it's diagnosing what the issue might be is half the battle. Yeah. And once you've diagnosed it, the solution's quite simple a lot of the time.
Yeah. But I think when you have people go through those form slumps, if that's what you wanna call them, we get that in our game as well. Yeah. You just wanna remind them of how good they are- Mm ... and just say, "Just keep doing what you're doing. We believe in you. We're back you." Yep. You know? Uh, and if they're doing the right stuff, then hopefully it just removes that pressure.
It's probably a bit like sport, right? Yeah. If they feel like their position's under threat, you go, "Look, you're gonna play 15 for the rest of the year no matter what. Yeah, yeah. Just keep doing what you're doing. We believe in you." Yeah. Well, then that just takes that pressure off, doesn't it? 100%. You two could be the All Black coaches.
Oh, yeah. Don't ask me. Surely it'd be the end of the year. Too stressful. That's true. Too hard, yeah. Too much. Too tough. Toughest job in New Zealand. Who wants that job? Oh, yeah. It'd be worse than prime minister, wouldn't it? Yeah, yeah. I actually reckon it would. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I think, to be fair, like, we talked about sport earlier, didn't we?
And, um, you know, we've taken a lot out of being in sports teams into the business. Yeah. I mean, we don't do those sort of huddles where you rah, rah, rah, but I mean, you certainly take out in terms of that sort of, um, off-field, you know, training development. Mm. Um, you know, the business plan, where are we going, the goals, objectives- Mm
you know. Mm. And that team morale, that culture, and also have fun. Yeah. And you get people in to speak around that or- Yep ... like help grow your, your business? Yeah, we've had a ton of people come to the business over the year. That's good. Um, and then different people have done anything from degrees, diplomas, MBAs, um, mentoring programs, that sort of stuff.
So- Yeah ... we're massive on that. You know, we're trying to really promote that, and I think Robbie and I have been really passionate about personal development- You know, since we started the business. Mm. And we try and give, I think, the staff every opportunity where they can- Yeah ... to get exposure to that. So- Yeah, cool
I think we've been really lucky some of the people that come into the business sort of share their, their knowledge. Any favorite ones that, um, really related to or helped you and felt like, man, got a lot out of that one? Yeah. Um, we've had some really good ones over the years, haven't we? I mean, we've obviously lucky enough to have, you know, Richie McCaw as part of the business.
Oh, yeah. So, you know, he's obviously a fairly understated person, but you go back to the fundamentals of vision, hard work, you know, resilience. Yeah, yeah. Mm. You know, being unrelenting in terms of your, your search for a goal. Um, so- What's his role in the business? Uh, he's a shareholder in the New Zealand business.
Oh, shareholder, right. You know, he sort of partakes in coming in to, you know, speak to the team occasionally- Yeah ... and client events and, and that sort of stuff. Yeah, cool. Um, so it's been really interesting sort of trying to unpack and, and learn about his journey. Mm. You know, obviously Robbie knew him from school.
I sort of knew him from afar in Dunedin, you know, being at school. Um, and then we had, uh, the likes of Cameron Smith, the, the NRL player- Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah ... as brand ambassador for a while. So- Oh, cool He's a really interesting guy as well- Yeah ... you know, in terms of what he's achieved. I think he's still played the most amount of games and perhaps, you know, some of the premierships are, are up there with the best of them.
So different people like that have sort of come into the business. We've had different business leaders come in over time as well. So yeah, I don't know what sort of- Gina. Yeah, yeah. So- NLP, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So yeah, Gina's, she's like an NLP coach, who's sort of a little bit like, um, Tony Robbins. Oh, yeah, yeah.
You know, so doing mindsets- Yeah ... and, and, and unlocking some of those limiting beliefs and, and just sort of understanding how your mind works. Yeah. So I think, you know, we've been quite inquisitive about that. So she's done group talks for us. She coached Robbie and I for a period of time. Uh, Robbie's been part of a group called Visage.
That's what it's called now, isn't it? Yep. Yeah, I'm part of a group called YPO. Oh, yeah. So they're external groups, other business owners or business leaders. They, they get wonderful resources come in, like, um, through YPO we get exposure to resources like Harvard Business School, London Business School, and then some people that have done some amazing stuff in business.
And I think you guys have resources come in just about every month, don't you? Yeah, every second month. So I mean, I think when you lead a business of our size, I mean, it can be a lonely, you know, space. Yeah. I mean, there's Sean and I and our, our CFO, Madge, but I mean, um, th- that Visage environment is really, really good to go- Mm
and sit around a table, you know, once a month with other business leaders. Yeah. And just talk about similar challenges. Yep. And everyone's got the same challenges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? So it's quite refreshing talking about that. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And you mentioned brand ambassador- Yep ... Cam, Cam, um, Smith.
Yeah. How does the marketing and all that side of things come into play? How important is that for you? And like, whose role is that? Where do you guys fit in on that? Yeah, I mean, we sort of did that at the time because we really wanted to lift the, the, the profile of the business, particularly even though it was a Queenslander, but we're not long into the Hunter Valley.
Mm. And obviously being a big league, yeah, and obviously the Hunter Valley is a big league, you know, locality. They're, they're big into the, the rugby league in that location. So we sort of, we did that. Um, and then obviously try and leverage his brand, you know. But he also had some really good principles.
He's obviously, you know, one of the longest standing, um- Yeah ... captains of Australia, Queensland, and obviously, you know, a hugely successful Storm. So we had some sort of client events around that as well. So our clients really enjoyed meeting him, learning from him, uh, talking about to see customers and those sorts of things.
So it was good. And, and similarly with Richie McCaw, I mean, a lot of people sort of look back and revere these people. Yeah. But the opportunity to sort of go up and have a chat, learn from them, get a picture with them- Mm ... it's pretty cool. So yeah, we've always sort of tried to do our marketing in a fairly real down to earth sort of way.
Yeah. So I didn't want to sort of hype it up too much. Yeah. And both those people are pretty understated in terms of how they carry themselves as well. Couple of legends of either code. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I think it's always good listen from people at the, at the top of the game. Yeah. Whether it's podcasting, coaching, whatever, I'm just inquisitive to learn.
So I think, you know, we've both been quite inquisitive over the years, haven't we? Very good. Well, we- we'll get to these questions that, um, have come in from everyone around the world. Thanks, Anna. Here we go. Okay. Um- First one's a pretty easy one. Australia or New Zealand coffee? For me, New Zealand. New Zealand.
Um, Australia tends to have, uh, just warm, warm milk really. Oh, yeah. Maybe a slightly bit of coffee in it. Yeah, no, I'd go, I'd go New Zealand as well. You're a New Zealand coffee as well. I've got, I've got a good mate in, in coffee, and I did a bit of research. Yeah, as you said, the, uh, coffee nips or whatever you want to call it, are stronger over here.
Oh, yeah. And I just think the produce out in New Zealand's pretty good to beat, so the, uh- Pretty hard to beat in terms of the milk. New Zealand coffee. Yep. Double down. Okay, early starts or late nights? Uh, both for me, depending on what needs to be done. But, uh, yeah, probably fresher in the mornings. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So you're up early and late at night. Potentially, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, definitely I, I enjoy the mornings. Yeah. If I had the choice, I'd, I'd definitely sort of start at, you know, 5:00 rather than sort of working till sort of 10 or 11. Yeah, fair enough. You know. Get up and... Would you get up and get straight into work, or you, are you exercise routines or- Yeah, I'm, I'm normally doing some form of exercise about 5:00 in the morning.
Oh, yeah. Um, and then sort of rip into it after that, and then it's done. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think it's good for the mental health. Yeah. You know, I've always sort of said you do it as much for the vanity as you do the sanity. Yeah. But I think that gives you a bit of a switch off, and it's a good way to start the day.
Is that an everyday thing for you? More or less. Far out. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, yeah. Try and squeeze it in. Otherwise, you know, life just gets busy. Yeah. Done that between kids and work and all the rest of it. Yeah. And there's another week go by you've done no exercise. Yeah. That's, that's me. Yeah. It's hard.
You can't, you can't do it after work, can you? No. See the morning or lunchtime. No, you plan it for after work. Yeah. Then you have no chance. You get, get home from the kids. You're like, "Oh, I'll do it tonight." Yeah, yeah. And you're like, "Oh, no." Tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, tomorrow. Yeah. What about you? Exercise? Yeah.
I like... Lunchtime's
predominantly, yeah. Oh, yeah, lunchtime. Yeah, no, can't do it at 5:00. You know, you're home with the family and- Yeah ... gets dark pretty early, doesn't it, in the wintertime, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you go in the, um, warmest time of the day. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Um, biggest lesson you learned the hard way.
The biggest lesson, that, that, that tough times never last- Mm-hmm ... I think. You know, and I think sometimes you've just gotta do what you gotta do to get through that. And I think that early, that the second sort of recession or whatnot we had to deal with, we were probably a bit slow to act. We were a bit naive because we thought it was like the first one.
Mm. We probably held on a bit long. Um, so I think, you know, tough times don't last. You gotta remind yourself when you're right in the middle of it, it's pretty brutal at times, but I think you've just gotta do what you gotta do to get through it. Mm. Make the tough calls. Mm. Yeah. Like that Yeah, for me, it's probably never make an assumption.
Yeah. You know, I'm big on, like, gathering data information before you try and conclude something. Yeah. So ask questions, get to the bottom of it. Yeah. Yeah. Easier said than done sometimes too, eh? Yeah, yeah. Well, the brain tries to work out- Yeah, yeah ... the bits we don't know. Yeah, yeah. You know, and sometimes that can be a bit of a curse, you know?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. Okay, um, one word to describe each other. For Sean, I'd go driven. Driven. Yeah, no, determined for Romy. Oh. Yeah, yeah. So, so mu- Yeah. Yeah. That's why you work so well together. Yeah, yeah. They came up quick too. Um, favorite high achievers trip. Must have a favorite. Sound- Was it just barely every year?
I mean, they're all good for different reasons. I mean, you always have a great time. But, uh, I think in terms of being up there, Las Vegas was pretty hard to beat. Oh, yeah. It's just amazing. You know, it was sort of on another level, but it doesn't matter where we've been, whether it's Queenstown, Melbourne Cup, Fiji, whatever, um, e- every year is great.
Yeah. It's just a bit different. But I think Las Vegas for me. I'll go a bit different. Um, it was cruising through Milford Sound on a boat during COVID when no tourists were here. Oh, yeah. We were the only people on the boat. And my mate who organized it said, "Just take as much booze down as you like." We're drinking champagne and stuff on the top of this, uh, boat through Milford Sound, so it was pretty special.
Yeah. The local one. Yeah, yeah. It was awesome. Yeah, I can tell you're a true Southerner. And you're after the bright lights of Vegas. When the Aussies on the trip too, so it's probably- Extra good ... part, part of the reason. Okay. Is it true you both wore board shorts to the first day of work, first day in the office?
Yeah. Well, my recollection, you know, certainly, you know, we started, I think we started on a Thursday. Um, so I think the attire was pretty humble on the Thursday. And I, I do remember we had the basic Nokia phones. I was a bit dirty 'cause you got the new one, I had to wait to get a new one. And then we had the Asus, uh, laptops that you bought from Computer Alliance or whatever the case is.
So, yeah, we sort of thought we'd made it, and the office wasn't much bigger than this particular room. Yeah. You know, so it was pretty humble. Um, but I think the attire gradually got better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think board short- shorts in general, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. And now look at you.
Both shirt and- This is quite casual compared to when we first started ... Is this casual, is it? We used to go suit and ties early on. Oh, true. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Like day one was board shorts, but after that was- Who, who enforced that? Was that you guys or? That's kind of the norm in the industry over there. Yeah, okay.
Yep. We wore sh- uh, suit, sh- suit, suit jackets and, and ties, wasn't it? Certainly got a bit more relaxed over the years- Mm ... you know, which is good, 'cause I think at our core we're probably happier being a bit more relaxed, uh, I mean, in terms of the attire. But you- You, you gotta match the markets too Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.
A lot of our clients are pretty casual. Match the market, match the tone. Yeah, yeah. Especially in New Zealand at the moment. So, yeah, polo shirts and jeans are kind of the go. Yeah, okay. Unless you're gonna see someone important, so... Then your suit or your- That's why I dressed up for the view, mate. Yeah. Well, it's- Probably a suit jacket.
Yeah ... first time I've worn a, a shirt since a, since a wedding, and- That's right ... first time I've done a podcast without my hat on, so- Yeah ... I almost feel naked. Bit out of sorts. Yeah. Bloody hell. I'm all over the show. Yeah. Oh, well this one goes on to the other one. Um, do you miss your Nokia brick? I, I think personally, I think the only good thing about the Nokia would be you, you could switch off.
Yeah. Whereas now, bloody emails, bloody LinkedIn, bloody God knows what, there's messages coming from every angle. Yeah. Whereas back then it was a real battle to get a text message out- ... 'cause you're pushing three times to get a bloody letter out. That answer. And, and other than playing Snake, you couldn't really do much more than that, you know?
So- Yeah ... yeah, in, in some regards it was quite a, quite a good time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you, you switch off naturally, so- Yeah, I mean, look- ... everyone wants to know your phone ... that little flashing light used to get me on the old Nokias, you know, when the, when the- Oh, and, and the Blackberrys ... text comes through.
The Blackberrys have emails come through, a little flashing light against it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's quite nice not having now. Yeah. You know? You can, you can choose to look at your phone in certain parts of the apps, you know. Do you turn your ph- phone on airplane mode or something when you're getting out and that?
Not really. No, it doesn't bother me, to be fair. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. You just leave it on. Yeah, I'll, I'll check for emails on the weekend, but yeah, not too many come through. Yeah. Oh, nice. Okay. Um, how has supporting the wider community, whether it's sports teams, charities, or local events shaped Stellar? Over the years Yeah, I think back to our why.
I mean, um, you know, we want to be a part of the communities we're, we're, we're from and, and, and part of, and, uh, you know, I sp- we sponsor Kirra Rugby Club for a long time- Yeah, cool ... up in Auckland. Kings High School, their rugby program. Um, sponsor a lot of sporting teams around, around Christchurch and so forth.
So it's kind of cool seeing that and also h- helping, um, you know, especially junior sports teams as well. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, just trying to impact those communities. Yep. That's strong. Yeah, yeah. No different in Australia. Yeah. So it's really nice to do that, and also some of the charities we've raised money for.
So I think, you know, we're, we're closing in, told yesterday, somewhere close to 800,000. Oh, wow. Over the 20 years in terms of money that we've either, you know, donated or supported community initiatives or charities, you know. So that's pretty cool. So it'd be good to tick off that, um, million-dollar mark.
Yeah. Um, but it's, it's great when you sort of see your school, you know, and you see your logo on your, your first 15 nights sort of stuff and go, you know, it was only a, you know, 20-odd years ago we were there doing that thing. So yeah, that was ultimately where we met one another and, you know, Kings have been good to us, and some of the rugby clubs and what not that we support have been good to us or our kids or our families, netball clubs.
Yeah. So it's sort of nice to give back. That's a cool feeling, eh? Yeah. Like, um, just jumping into this and where you've got to and being able to- Yeah ... give back, um, must be pretty special. Yeah, it's pretty tough out there, isn't it? You know- Yeah ... especially in the current environment. Yeah. Um, yeah, if we can help in a little way to sort of- Mm
help, um, subsidize some of the, um, you know, kids playing sport and that sort of thing- Mm, mm ... it's pretty cool. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Okay, next one is, any stories from back in the day of when you were in the trenches? Yeah. Well, there's probably one that comes to mind, mate. Um, and hopefully there's no rental car companies listening to this phone call and hope- hopefully there's a sta- Oh, God
a statute of limitation in terms of them going after us, but, no, early days, uh, we're lucky enough to win a, a major, uh, agreement with a mining contractor, probably the biggest mining contractor in the world. Um- Oh, wow ... so it was a big deal. So with that, Robbie and I jumped in, uh, probably the cheapest rental car we could get our hands on.
Uh, cash flow was a bit tight, and we set about going around all these different mine sites, introducing ourselves and try and kick off this, uh, new relationship. Now anyway, we sort of thought between two sites we might take a bit of a shortcut. We thought, oh, we'll take the sort of dirt road and we'll punch out and we'll save ourse- save sort of half an hour or an hour or something.
So Robbie's always, he's always one to sort of back himself and go for it. So we punch through this backyard, uh, this back road and we sort of go through this dip and it was like a bit of a sandy sort of bottomed out. It was sandy. And anyway, this bloody hatchback or whatever we're in didn't cope particularly well with, you know, the sandy conditions off-road.
So we sort of- Got grounded, did it? We got grounded, we got bogged. And lucky enough, some diesel fitter in his souped up bloody 79 Series, I think he He seen us and took pity on the city boys that were out there, you know, up to no good. Um, so he, he towed us out, but, uh, you know, we, we got out, but the old, uh, bumper must have got a bit loose in the process.
So anyway, we survived that, and we pull into the next little town, and we pull into, um, the car park, and there's one of those concrete bollards that sort of stop you driving too far. Yeah. So we do that. We must have got the, you know, the coffee or, or, or a pie or whatever we're getting, and then we reversed back, and because the bumper had sort of got dislodged and come down, it ripped the whole front bumper off.
So we think it on. Oh, what are we gonna do now? Do we ring Hertz or what do we do? So anyway, we, we shoved it in the back seat and, uh, went about the rest of our trip, and just as we... I think we took it back. We just sort of put it back together- ... hoping it would stay there, but we probably didn't have the money to sort of afford the excess at the time.
So yeah, uh, uh, 20 years later, we're still with that customer, but, you know, we've been, and they haven't caught up with us for that, have they? So, you know, you got anything to add to that? The story? Yeah. Oh, I think you were driving, were you? Oh, I remember. I remember trying to pass the buck. No, I'm not sure who was driving.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's- No, it's perfect. Hang on, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. We were probably stuck for probably over an hour then, weren't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a long time. Yeah. And no reception. No, no. We liked that meeting, yeah. Oh, no reception too. No, no, so weren't in a good way. Oh, one of the great stories.
Yeah. Okay, next question. Um, as newcomers onto the scene, how do you make sure you've made the right calls? Yeah, we touched on, um, I guess the tech and, and Vicious environment and, and YPO. I mean, we're not afraid to, you know, get the right people involved, and we've got no egos around that. And I think just taking a growth mindset, it's important to sort of get other perspectives.
And at the time we thought about, this is going back to probably '11 or '12, bringing, you know, professional board members in. So for a long period of time we had, um, you know, some high caliber people around the table, you know, people out of the industry itself, out of big mining companies, you know, earning over half a million dollars, you know, sitting around our table, and we wouldn't necessarily reward them a lot.
Mm. It was an advisory board, but, um, they added a lot of value to our business. And, um, we had guys who were on international speaking circuits, and, you know, some pretty heavy hitters that they really enjoyed, you know, being in the environment, and it's a bit of a dynamic, uh, entrepreneurial style company.
Mm. And it wasn't sort of your big corporate, so they quite enjoyed it themselves too, and hopefully they took a bit away from it- Mm ... at the same time. That's cool. Yeah, they certainly weren't gonna get rich off the, the, the fees I think. No. 5- 500 bucks a meeting or something like that. Oh, yeah. So it was nothing in the grand scheme of things, but I think they sort of seen something in us, seeing that we're young, we were keen, we were driven, and we were sort of thirsty for knowledge.
Um, so yeah, we're pretty lucky in those early days, sort of learning from those guys. They were titans of industry, so yeah. Yeah. I think that was, uh, quite formative in the early days, wasn't it? Mm. Yeah. Would you be here today without those guys, do you think, or hard to know? Yeah, they, they added some great value, but probably more at a corporate and structural level.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know? Um, and from what I've seen, you know, in my experience, um, you know, we're quite nimble compared to some big companies. Mm-hmm. So I think, you know, for us, we can just make a decision real quick. Yeah. Okay. If it makes sense, let's go and do it. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I think that sort of probably forced us to look at things a little bit different from a...
We're probably quite entrepreneurial and, and, uh, opportunity-focused. Yeah. I think they just drew our attention to governance and, you know, compliance and some of the risks that businesses can face- Mm ... you know, on that sort of side of it. So yeah, I think it was probably just a nice complement to- Mm ... you know, we're probably opportunity-focused, and they sort of just drew a bit of attention to some of the oth- other aspects of running a business that are important.
Okay, next question. Um, if you look back at your career, what are you most proud of? I think looking at our why, you know, spurring growth, changing lives, I love hearing stories, hearing stories across the team that, um, how they're impacting our clients and candidates, and nothing better than seeing our consultants offer a high caliber service and, you know, the stories of helping companies grow in particular.
But I think the heart of all this is, is seeing our staff grow. Mm. You know, seeing our staff grow and develop, stick with the company, you know, build confidence, build their capability, and ultimately take home more money to their families, you know, have these trips with us, um, you know, have goals and ambitions at home and, and achieve those.
Mm. You know, it's pretty, pretty inspiring. Mm. And we're, we're fortunate enough we've got a fairly good group of people that we're- Mm ... you know, have in our, our team, and, um, that's what gets me out of bed each day, you know? That's cool. Yeah. I think 100%, I think Robbie summed it up well. I think when you look back on your career, I think enabling some of that stuff will be the most fulfilling, you know?
Mm. And I know in the early days, we had a administrator that come in, uh, I think employee number five net. Um, she was literally shaking like a leaf when she went through the interview process, so she's, I think, our first administrator. Anyway, she went on to, uh, sort of grow within the business. We put her through her accountancy degree.
Uh, she went over to our Denver office at the time, you know. So from where she started to where she finished, she bought property, she got married, she had kids, all that sort of stuff. It was just nice to see her grow and just become more confident. Yeah. Mm. Um, so there's plenty of examples like that, but, uh, I think when you look back at it, you know, those sorts of things, and also some of the candidates we've placed into jobs.
You know, I placed people that, you know, once upon a time were, you know, diesel fitters. Now they're CEOs of companies, so playing some small part in helping, you know, c- uh, individuals, uh, grow and help their families. Yeah. You know, at last count, Robbie, we're, we've placed about 36,000 people over the course of 20 years.
Oh, wow. Which is pretty crazy. A- and when you extrapolate that, if they've got families and all the rest of it, potentially you've sort of touched the lives of sort of 100,000 people. Mm. So just sort of think that tying it back to our why that we've been successful in doing that- Yeah ... is pretty cool.
That's so cool. At the end of the day, we don't have, like, staff don't always stay with us, and I think if, if when they leave, you know, you hang your head on the wall and say they've actually learned and grown- Mm ... by being in our environment, it's pretty cool. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, so we can't keep everyone all the time.
Mm. There's, there's different reasons why people leave, but, um, you know, they've had experience, they've, they've grown and developed, and ultimately they've had a better outcome by, you know, joining us in the first place, you know? Mm. Mm. So it's pretty cool. Yeah. Best piece of advice for someone listening to this podcast, what would you give them?
Yeah. I think everyone's got a vision of where they wanna go, and typically it's like a, this is within work, right? Yeah. Employment. Like, it's typically a, a job title and it's a pay packet, you know? Like, that's important, but I think you gotta work out why you wanna get there. Yeah. You know, a lot of people go into managerial roles for, for the wrong reasons, you know?
So I've been working, you know, hard on myself for a start, you know, why am I going in this direction? But also with the team, okay, well, cool, you helped me get to this level, but why is that important to you? Mm. You know? Yeah, no, I, I, think that's a good point. And I just think, you know, if you do wanna be successful, you, it's just not gonna happen by chance.
You know what I mean? So I think, you know, your first , you know, Robbie was big on this, you know, we were exchanging a lot in the early days, you know, business plans and bloody spreadsheets and profit projections or cash flows and all that sort of stuff. Robbie just said, "Tomorrow we've gotta resign." You know, enough talk, we've gotta resign.
It's the end, you know what I mean? So just gotta do it. And I'm like, "Shit, really?" Yeah. So I think at some stage you gotta take the leap of faith on anything, you know, whether it's resign to take on a new job, um, and you gotta back yourself and get in the trenches, but you just can't hack success. Mm. You just gotta put the hard yards in consistently.
Mm. If what you're working towards is important enough. You know, like said, Robbie said, it's not just the pay packet or whatever, or, or the promotion. Is it, is it sending your kids to a nice school? Is it buying the house? Is it buying the diamond ring to, to get engaged? Mm. Is it giving back to your parents?
Whatever it is, you gotta tie it back to that, uh, but then you gotta do the work to get there. Mm. Yeah. And life's too short. If you're not enjoying it, well do something different. You know, change it. Yeah. You know, 'cause we're all the master of our own destiny, and you know, I think people get sort of too stuck in like, you know, "It's not working for me."
Okay, well what are you gonna do about it, you know? Yeah, yeah. Feel sorry for themselves about it. Yeah, feel sorry for themselves. Yeah. It's a really life's about attitude. It's an attitude, isn't it? Yeah. It's a mindset. Yeah. You know? And you two both love what you do. Love it. Mm. Love it 100%. Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
How good. Okay, next one. Um, how did you land on your values? Yeah, it's a really good story, um, because once upon a time we used to have six, and now we got three. Oh, yeah. So I was away, uh, doing a course over in Boston at, at MIT at the time, and one of the particular speakers was talking about culture and the importance of values and how you live your values.
Now, anyone sort of... Someone asked me in the break, you know, "Oh, what are your values?" And I sort of, to be honest, I stumbled to six values. I couldn't quite remember them all. Yeah, yeah. You know, old gray matter was maybe a little bit damaged from different things. Um, mainly, you know, uh, sport and bloody too many drinks.
But then I got back to the office, and I, I asked a few people that have been with us a while ago, "What are our values?" And the same thing happened. They sort of got to four and stumbled or fumbled either five or, you know, if they're lucky, six, so. Yeah. Then we had a bit of a chat and go, "Oh, I think, I think we've got too many."
You know, it's hard to live them when us as the- I didn't know ... leaders can't even recite them, you know? So then we're in trouble. We're probably not living them enough. So I went through this big exercise, about 100 people in the room, and we got everyone to put down on Post-it notes on the wall what they thought our values should or could be.
Mm. So as you can imagine, you know, there's 100 people with a host of different things, so you literally got hundreds, if not maybe a thousand different ideas there. And then we sort of consolidated, go, "Well, there's a bunch of this, and there's a bunch of that, and there's a bunch of this, and those are quite similar."
So ultimately, we got down to three. So I think they've, they've stood us in good stead. You know, so they're greatness, positivity, and leadership. Mm-hmm. And I think that sort of just guides us further to our vision, our why. Greatness, we're trying to do a good job. You know, we're trying to d- you know, really excel and be the best and, you know, produce great work or create a great environment Leadership, everyone's got an opportunity to sort of step up and lead from the front.
Mm-hmm. You know, whether, you know, you've been with us five minutes, you've been with us five or 15 years, you know, on, on a daily basis, everyone's got a, an opportunity to sort of stand up and, and act as a leader. Mm-hmm. It's not just a, a title. I think it's, it's a behavior, it's an attitude. Um, and then positivity.
I mean, shit, life throws so many curveballs at you, and certainly in recruitment, certainly in business, there's so many different curveballs. So trying to be constructive, trying to find the solution, trying to find the way forward, we just sort of thought that, um, it was a nice way to wrap up how we wanted the business to sort of think and operate.
Um, and I think it sort of encapsulates how Robbie and I sort of think naturally. Um, so yeah, I don't know what you'd add to that, but I think it's been a really big part of our business. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think the key thing with the other thing is, you know, you can have words on a, on a page or on a wall, that's one thing, but it's actually live in them.
Yeah. And I love that word congruency. You know, congruency is all about, um, what you say, what, you know, leads to what you, how you do things and how you behave. And for me, like you've got to, you know, reinforce those values all the time. Mm-hmm. In one-on-ones and team meetings and so forth because it's really important that all the team live and breathe it.
Mm-hmm. You walk in the door and you put your game face on. If you had a, if you had a bad night at home or whatever else, you just got to front up to work and, and, and change that attitude, you know? Mm-hmm. So true. Like anyone can have- Yeah ... 10, 20 words on the wall that- Yeah. Yeah. All mean well, but if you're not living them or you don't even know them, then- Yeah
there's just no point. Yeah. So it's cool what you've done there. It's about culture, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Next one. Um, what's the story around J Buddha? Yeah. Early days, I think we were responsible for a fair part of their, their profits at that point in time. So What is J Buddha? J Buddha's a, it was a local bar- Oh, yeah.
slash nightclub in Brisbane back in the day. So it wasn't uncommon on a Friday- Yeah ... at the end of the month, after a good month, we'd get the, uh, crew down there. But, uh- Before kids, right? Before kids. Yeah. So yeah, we're saying no, no bouncing back on a Saturday morning for sports or anything else like that.
Yeah. So we would normally, uh, blow a few cobwebs out at, at J Buddha. So it would normally, I would just have these visions of Robbie just walking through the sea of, of people, and he'd have this tray. It'd be either Jaggy bombs or tequila or... That, that would normally, what, what come before that was trays of, uh, you know, Stella, you know, uh, beer and all that sort of stuff.
So a lot of fun, a lot of dancing, and geez, these bloody receipts we used to see that used to sort of go as long as your arm in terms of- Yeah ... at the end of it. So yeah, cashflow was probably impacted, but culture definitely lifted as a result. Yeah. We were very, uh, team
building, weren't we? Yeah, that's right. So emphasis on culture. That's right. Yeah. So it was a lot of fun. A few stories the next day, but yeah, I think- Yeah ... it was certainly a work hard, play hard sort of culture pre-kids. It was just a moment in time, but it was a lot of fun, wasn't it? Yeah. No, great fun. Yeah.
So why did you start a, start up in Aussie? Was that a decision for you, whether to start in Aussie or New Zealand? Well, we, uh, yeah Robbie was obviously working at Queensland- Mm ... uh, as a surveyor in the mines, and I was working as a recruiter in Brisbane. So we kinda just knew that market. Yeah. Robbie kinda knew mining from a different perspective to me.
A- and I sorta knew the recruit market from, you know, living and working in, in Brisbane. Mm. So it was just obvious that, you know, we're, we're in that market, we sorta knew it. Mm. We have relationships, networks, that sort of stuff. So it was just a logical place to start, and then we sorta had visions of sort of expanding from there.
But it was just sort of the logical place to sort of kick the business off because of those things, wasn't it? And then logical place to move to New Zealand. Did you wanna move back? Yeah, I mean, taking a step back quickly, I mean, um, I, I sort of found love at the time, um, with a girl that'd come back from overseas, and I guess that was my OE, so- OE, yeah
I only made it to Australia rather, rather, rather further afield. Yeah. So, uh, that was a happy meeting for us. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the opportunity, we had three daughters in Brisbane, and then the opportunity come up to move home. Each one of our board members suggested, um, one of us go to either Denver, Colorado or, or Christchurch.
So, um, well, sorry, New Zealand. So we're lucky enough to bring up our three kids, uh, Kiwi kids, which is quite cool. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Nice. Mm. If someone experiences Stellar today as a customer, job seeker, or staff member, what do you hope they feel that traces all the way back to those early days? Yeah, I think by our personalities, we're pretty grounded, down to earth, and we wanna have a real experience and, you know, a lot of people can promise the world but not deliver.
Mm. So I think just leading to an outcome where the client's satisfied with the outcome, and sometimes we don't always get it right, which, you know, mentioned before about dealing with people. Mm. Uh, we make sure we fix it. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I, I don't think it's any different today than what it was back in '06.
You know? Mm. I think the goal's always been be good to deal with, so enjoy the, the, the dynamic, uh, and you deliver. And I think if you do that for all the people we interact with, you know, we're doing our job, doing it well. Um, so yeah, I don't think it's any different all these years later. Well, you've done a bloody good job.
Um, it's been awesome to get you both on and, um, go through the journey and, um, pretty impressive what you've done from school to work your way through growing Stellar to where it is now. It's, um, pretty impressive, and the way you've given back and the environment that you've created, um, all sounds really special.
So, um, well done on that and thanks for coming on. Our pleasure. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Been good to chat.