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We share our thoughts and ideas on how to grow a business.
This is one of my favorite things of all
time, which is critiquing blog posts.
I think it's other people's
favorite thing too.
Story arc happens here.
He starts with reviewing websites with
clients, can quickly become chaotic,
and then he does a very classic
content marketing blogger type thing
where he tells a hypothetical story.
All of that is unnecessary.
Website feedback tools organized this
chaos into the single source of truth.
It's almost like getting too into
the weeds too quickly 'cause I'm
like a single source of truth.
What is that single source of truth,
the three bullets he chooses for?
There are three key things
I think could be better.
Number one, he says they need
to be easy for clients to use.
Number two, ability to collaborate.
Number three, deep integrations.
My argument with all three of
them that I expressed to him
was they sound too generic.
Like any of these tools can say it.
Welcome to the Grow and
Convert Marketing Show.
I hope this type of episode
is gonna be a recurring theme
because as you know, Benji.
This is one of my favorite things of all
time, which is critiquing blog posts.
Yeah, I love it.
I think it's, I think it's other
people's favorite thing too.
I hope so.
So, um, what we're gonna do is
we have a blog post written for,
uh, a tool called Feed Bucket.
We will explain everything.
If you are listening on the
podcast, I think you'll be fine.
Because we'll be critiquing
sentences and reading them out loud.
Um, and the overall theme of this
particular critique is I think, identify
and focus on your differentiator, and
that will be become clear towards the end.
Marcus is in our course and community.
Which you can find on our website.
Just look at course and
community up in the map bar.
And he submitted this, um, for review
and I gave him, so that's a normal thing.
And we call it a course and community
because it's built into this kind of
community type software and anyone inside.
Can ask us for feedback.
They do that all the time.
They ask us for feedback on keyword
strategy, various random questions.
And a common one is to ask, um,
me for feedback on the writing.
And it's fun.
And I actually think not a lot of
people do it or take advantage of that.
And then I said, Hey, this is
actually really interesting.
The post is really good and
it would be a great example.
Can we break it down?
On our YouTube and he said, yes, please.
So here we go.
So this is the blog post nine
best website feedback tools.
But in order for all of this discussion
to make sense, we need to zoom out.
And actually, as I was thinking
about this video, Benji, I was
thinking, one thing I wanted to say
is writing starts at search intent.
And then I thought, Ooh.
I should probably write a
short blog post that says this.
It wouldn't really say anything brand
new that I, or we have not said before,
but it'd be really convenient to
have to even send to like new writers
that are trying to train to write
it grow and convert and, and other
people writing search, search intent.
So let's do that as opposed to
what actually, oh, great question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm just curious like your,
your level of thinking there.
So writing starts at search intent versus.
What are, what are people typically doing
or what, what are you seeing that'll
become clear when I analyze the intro, um,
and we talk about the intro, but I think
it's, that, it's a really good question.
I think it's that people assume
that they need to start at
the beginning of the story.
It's something that
we've talked about a ton.
I've talked about Aton.
I can see what you're saying.
It, it, it's like writing towards
the specific keyword versus.
Looking at the serp, trying to think
through where someone is at in their
journey of learning about this topic.
Yeah.
And then starting your intro there versus
when, when people start intros, they
typically start all the way back at like,
if you're the first time learning about
this topic, this is what you need to know.
Versus if you look at the serp, I'm just
guessing by this tool, 'cause I haven't
looked at this in depth, but people
already have a pretty decent knowledge
of what a website feedback tool is.
Exactly.
And so you don't need to start just like
with design and, and talking about design
principles and all these little things.
Yeah.
Your your question actually
stopped me in my tracks.
It's, it's a good one in the
sense that like, I don't know if I
misinterpreted your intent of the
question, but where my mind went,
went was like almost like a Daish.
Isn't it obvious that any writer
would write for the reader in mind?
Yes, you're right, but I think.
What I mean by this is if you think more
carefully about search intent, like what
you just said, often there's nuances
that in hindsight, when you, when it,
when it's pointed out to you are very.
Almost embarrassingly obvious that
changes how you write as both in the
beginning, in the introduction and later.
So like, yes, of course every writer
is thinking about the reader, but
I guess I would argue you're not
thinking carefully enough about them.
No, I, I agree.
I see that often.
I think it's not, I think
people would argue that they
are writing for the reader.
But usually they're writing for the
keyword and the search intent actually.
Yeah, like I, I think they're not thinking
through what this person already knows
and what I would need to explain to
them to convince them that my product
would be a good solution for them.
Like the way I think you and I
think about this is if we were
explaining this topic to someone.
Over coffee.
How would you explain that to them?
And, and just like, I think you have a, a
sense of what they already know about the
topic there, whereas I, I think that kind
of goes out the window when some people
are writing for, to rank for keywords.
Like they're looking at other
people's writing or they're
looking at other blog posts.
And if someone else.
Starts all the way back.
They also feel the need to start all
the way back at the very beginning
of the story about this topic instead
of just thinking through, alright,
generally I know my customers have
this need, I know they have these
problems and I should just start there.
Versus like, what is a
website feedback tool?
You, you probably don't
need to describe that if.
If you're writing on this topic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It goes back to, it's like a different
use of our term Google research paper.
We use that term to refer to like having
no subject matter expertise when you're
Googling around to figure out what to say.
But another way to, to use that
is the way a lot of people,
content writers, brands in-house.
Freelancers write these like marketing
long form blog posts is they write
it like we all used to write school
papers when we were in school.
That's what Benji means
when he says start way back.
We've been using that terminology
inside grow and convert.
So if you haven't heard it before and
you're like, what are they talking about?
We mean like when you would,
when you would write a school
paper, like on Abraham Lincoln.
Oh dear.
We have a bunch of international
people that listen and follow us.
Abraham Lincoln was the.
Oh, now the American
audience will laugh at me.
I wanna say like 16th president.
Yeah, I was, I was gonna say somewhere
in the teens, somewhere the 16th.
If I get that right, by the way,
I'll be very impressed because
this, I'll also be impressed.
I will buy you a burrito when we hang out.
If you, if it's the 16th,
I was gonna say like 14th.
He was some team president.
Very important to the US
because he was the president.
Um.
That, uh, abolished slavery
and kept the country together
when the south wanted to leave.
So if you're writing a, a school
paper on Abraham Lincoln, actually
side note, forget the audience.
I. Half of our company at Grow and Convert
is gonna be like, who's Abraham Lincoln?
I don't know all the presidents.
I, God, I hope they're listening.
Um, you always start at the beginning
in those school papers, Abraham Lincoln
was born and this to these parents in
this con in this year, blah, blah, blah.
When like, really he's famous for
things he did when he was like.
A, an adult and a president.
Right.
And so, um, it's like you're just, it's
like a, it's like an encyclopedic entry.
And, and you don't wanna do
that here and we'll explain why.
I know.
I feel, I feel like with blog writing
you have to unlearn everything
that you learned in school.
Like, I feel like when you did a, a paper
for English and school, you were taught
to write like this, it was supposed
to be like five paragraphs, I think.
Yeah.
In, in intro to end.
Yeah.
And you were told to do this
and it's almost unlearning
everything that you've done.
I. Yeah, in writing, because you
need to start to hook someone.
You need to start with what is the, the
problem that this person has, and then.
Quickly go to, you have this
problem and here's a solution.
And that's what we're gonna
explain in this blog post.
So it, it's like the whole intro
is just meant to grab the person's
attention and get them to keep reading.
Versus in school, you, you were trying
to explain a topic and go, yeah.
Start at the beginning and then there
was some conclusion that they're supposed
to learn by the end of the paper,
it's just, it's completely different.
Yeah.
That's really interesting.
You're right.
I never thought about that.
What?
What you saying that made me think.
It's almost like nonfiction
writing was taught to us in school.
Like the story arc of
Yes, like Disney movies.
You know, never think like this.
Now you're not, you're gonna be the
one that doesn't understand this.
Just like our British, uh, team members
don't know who Abraham Lincoln is.
Um.
The best part is I know that Matt's
gonna be like, not only do I know
who Abraham Lincoln is, probably he
probably knows more than you do, right?
He probably knows more
about US history than I do
so, but like I was gonna
say, Disney's frozen.
Like the key thing is like one of the
princesses has this ice power she can't
control, but all these Disney movies
will start when they're like babies.
It'll be like open with some shot.
So it's like, it's like, that's
like a fiction's arc and, and
that you kind of see that in fact.
Let me jump ahead a little bit.
Marcus kind of starts like that,
like website feedback tools.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna start
at the beginning and explain
to you guys what that is.
I'll go to Feed Bucket's homepage.
I'll explain what that is, but
that story arc happens here.
He starts with reviewing websites with
clients, can quickly become chaotic,
and then he does a very classic
content marketing blogger type thing
where he tells a hypothetical story.
You put their new site on a staging
domain and send over the link.
What comes back is a flood of emails,
Excel sheets, and PowerPoints filled with
unclear feedback that your developers
and designers struggle to understand.
Before you know it, you're trapped
in an endless email ping pong match.
With 40 messages, so
there's like this story.
What I'm gonna get to is, I
think all of that is unnecessary.
I told him that and, and we
will kind of come up with on
the fly some better intros.
In fact, it's like kind
of buried into his intro.
Okay.
Let's get to it.
What is a website feedback tool you
can kind of tell from that story that I
just read from, that's literally, I read
out of the beginning of this post it's
tools that like web design agencies use.
To get feedback on websites, they
create, I guess in-house people
could, could use them as well.
So if we go to Feed Buck, it's homepage,
you see like a little, I don't know,
screenshot thing on the right side.
It's a tool that like a lot
of 'em, you can like install a
little browser extension, which
actually is gonna come up later.
Feed Bucket doesn't do it.
He does it through a JavaScript
snippet and, and that's actually a big
differentiator for them that I'm gonna
argue they don't lean into enough.
But you know, some of 'em will be
like a WordPress plugin or a little
browser extension and the client
or whoever is like receiving the
website can literally like point.
Draw, like click on parts of the website
and be like, Hey, change this font and we
don't like this thing and blah, blah blah.
Like there's this whole class of tools
like this called website feedback tools.
So this keyword is what we at Growing
Convert terminology would call like one
of your main, actually I would say it's
their, literally their main category
keyword, meaning it's the, it's literally
the name of the product category.
There are not probably higher.
There may be higher converting
keywords because comparison keyboards
are higher, but like it's just like
a really important keyword for them.
So the next thing in search intent
is, let's actually Google this.
So I'm gonna stay on this tab and just,
I'm Googling website feedback tools.
So the first one is from one of his
competitors marker, which actually
he lists in his Post 24 Best
website feedback tools for 2025.
The next one is the homepage of another
competitor, Ruddle Best design feedback.
Then it's Reddit, which is very common
in Google these days where someone,
there's like multiple Reddit posts
be like, Hey, what are your feedback?
Any, any recommendations
for website feedback tools?
What the heck?
And then SurveyMonkey is
below Reddit in position four.
SurveyMonkey's homepage.
No, that's weird.
That's weird.
Anyway, you can tell Bug
Hurt is a competitor.
It's their homepage.
There's a Hotjar blog post that's just
website feedback tools from Hotjar.
So like people are looking for tools and.
The other thing I wanna think
about is beyond analyzing the serp.
So what we would normally do in our
process is we would open each of those up.
So like for example, let me click into
marker and I would kind of look and
be like, okay, this is a blog post.
The the first, actually
this is interesting.
The first sentence of the marker plot
post is website feedback tools help
you collect feedback directly from
your site, from clients, usability
testing, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then three sentences in there
is just a table of a bunch of tools.
Tool name, what it's best for.
And the G two rating.
I mean, look at this,
this looks like 20 tools.
So they just like get right into
just like listing the tools.
And that's actually kind
of really interesting.
A key thing beyond analyzing this
er, just also use your logic of what
you know about your target customer.
About, you know, this key word.
Just like sit down and think about it.
So specifically if you are feed bucket.
Marcus' company, who is
your likely target audience?
We have not talked to Marcus
about this, but we can just
kind of like think about it.
Right?
So in fact, right below the hero unit
on their homepage, there's a little
section that says, our customers.
And the headline says, trusted by agencies
building websites for clients worldwide.
So it's, they, they don't
list multiple customers.
They literally just say
trusted by agencies.
So it is a web design agency that have,
you know, clients worldwide or whatever.
Uh, what I'm trying to get at is if
you are someone who is going to buy,
feed a bucket and pay for it, and
it's, they're literally saying it's
agencies, you're not a beginner.
Yeah.
I was gonna, I was gonna
say the complete opposite.
You're probably advanced,
like an agency is doing this
work for clients all the time.
That's probably one of
their main service offering.
So it'd be, it'd be like coming to us
and say like an agency that does content
marketing and then describing what.
Content promotion is,
or something like that.
Like these people are very skilled
in what they do because tools or like
SEO tools, like talking to us about
like, ah, refs versus SEM ref or
something like that, and saying like,
ranking for keywords is important
and you're speaking to an SEO agency.
It's like, yeah, of course.
Right.
So in that context, what I told
him, my first bit of feedback was.
I don't think this whole story about,
you know, you sit down, you put
their site on the staging domain,
a bunch of random feedback comes in
through Excel, through PowerPoints.
Like there's 40 message flying
on, like, let, let me just
talk about this for a second.
'cause I have received some pushback
on I think LinkedIn comments
or something that I've said.
I was gonna say that this.
Could be perceived as well.
Aren't you talking about the pain points?
Yeah.
So you're, you're, you're saying a
flood of emails, Excel spreadsheets
and PowerPoints, and you're
like, yeah, these are touching on
points that our clients deal with.
Yeah, I, I was gonna go the same place.
So that would be the comeback is
like, what are you talking about?
We're resonating with pain points.
Didn't you guys invent pain point SEO?
You, hypocrites?
Um, y yes, it technically
is, but this is what all this
lead up was talking about is.
Just the best way to think about
it for me is to think about
it in the context of the serp.
We, we talked about it like, this person
is, saw the Google's first page SERP
before you, before they got to your site.
So they have at their
disposal, the SERP is like.
The SERP is like a dating app.
There's just, there's just, they
could endlessly swipe past you and
there's just an infinite number
of other people they can choose.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so it's like you need to, you
need to stand out and capture them.
And yes, technically these are pain
points, but I, I would say you're
putting the story in the intro.
It's belaboring the pain point.
If somebody is Googling tennis rackets,
you, you, you just sell them a racket.
You don't need to tell them how
tennis is fun and you get exercise
playing tennis and all this stuff.
And so it's like you have to be a
little bit like reading the room
and I think this is too much.
You could later in the post
resonate with pain points in that
way and say, using feed bucket,
you avoid these common scenarios.
I actually think there's like a nuanced
writing thing, even if I wouldn't do this.
But if you decided to, you know what?
Screw it.
David.
I'm just gonna start the blog post
out with pain points because I think
you're wrong and I think that's better.
Fine.
I think just the way it's written
could be a little bit more, um,
not kind of speaking to the reader
as though they don't know this.
You could just say,
yeah, just to the point.
I feel like yeah.
Extremely common like issues with.
Um, getting website feedback for web
design and development agencies that we've
heard are as follows, and then just bullet
point them out and that would be fine.
But I think something about the story
thing, it, it's like, it's almost like the
content writers feel like they're writing.
I. Like I said, like a fiction story
or even like, you know, like some
time magazine feature piece or like
the New Yorker or something where
people are like sitting down over
a cup of coffee and they're reading
your words and you wanna have a voice.
It's like, I'm sorry to say,
like, that's not what this is.
And, and no one wants to do that.
They just want to get to some tools.
Like, if you ever Googled for some tools,
you're like kind of doing work, you're
like in the midst of a workday, you
just wanna like figure out what tool is
right for your company and then move on.
Yeah.
It it's like, it's like
when you Google a recipe.
And there's, oh my god, like three
pages worth of like storytelling
before you get to the actual recipe
and you're like, just gimme the recipe.
I'm telling you, recipes
will be the reason why.
Like, it, it just, you
can't feel bad for Google.
If Chachi gets tea completely
leads to her lunch.
It's like literally I have not talked
to a single person is like, yeah, I
love reading the story in front of
the recipe, but, and yet they do.
Those recipe bloggers have to
write that because that's what.
Google ranks so annoying.
Okay, so we've belabored that.
Now, the third paragraph after
kind of the story stuff I read
earlier, which you can rewind and
listen to, goes like this website.
So after he says 40 messages flying
back and forth, important changes get
lost in the chaos in the review process.
Drags on now.
The next sentence is interesting.
Website feedback tools organize this
chaos into a single source of truth.
Ideally in the project management
tool tool your team already uses.
And then he says, I used to run a
web agency where we built hundreds
of websites for clients and tested
most feedback tools in the market.
From this experience, I learned there
are three things you need to pay
attention to when choosing a tool.
There are elements here that
start to get interesting.
So if you were the one Googling it
and you're looking for a website
feedback tool, it's obvious.
You Googled website feedback tool
or best website feedback tool.
There is some stuff here that's
a little bit more interesting.
I. Oh, this is someone that was like me.
He used to run a website agency.
He's built hundreds.
He's tested most of them.
That's kind of interesting.
And then there's this little
tidbit that's gonna come up later.
Ideally in the project management
team tool your team already uses.
It's, this is mentioned so
softly and to foreshadow.
I told this is what I think Marcus
should lean into extremely heavily
because it's a huge differentiator
of feed bucket from what I can tell.
Yeah, Al. Also, I just feel like the way
that was written could be a lot clearer.
So when, when it started at that
first sentence, and this is my
first time seeing this article too.
Mm. And this is what stood out
to me, was just website feedback
tools, organize this chaos into
the single source, source of truth.
It's almost like getting too
into the weeds too quickly.
'cause I'm like a single source of truth.
Like what, what is that
single source of truth?
Like I, I'm not aware that the
single source of truth should
be the project management tool.
Like I almost feel like he should
have started with the sentence before.
I, I used to run this and here were like,
if you're gonna start with the story,
start with the story and say, I used to
run this web agency and here were some
of the problems that I ran into and.
That that single source of truth
would've been one of the issues.
I was working out of a bunch of different
tools and this is the better way to
do it, but it's a little confusing
having not before and then going
into the story for me personally.
Yeah.
I think what you're getting at is this.
Yeah.
It's an interesting little, it's
like a important writing detail
is it's, it's the issue with the
phrase single source of truth.
Yes.
There's like a term for these phrases, but
it's like this little like kind of, um.
Play on words that, if you
just didn't say that, but you
said what's behind that term?
Single source of truth in this case,
more explicitly it would be clear website
feedback tools a allow users to, to give
feedback on websites under development in
one place instead of disparate emails and
slack messages or something like that.
Or, or one of the issues that I face
when running a website agency was when.
Client or customers gave feedback.
It was, the feedback was in multiple
tools instead of having a single
place where you could view all of it.
Yeah, something like that where it's
just very clear what the problem is.
'cause I know what a single source
of truth is, but in this case,
when I was reading that, I was
trying to figure out, okay, where,
where does all this data live?
Like what?
Like what is the, the issue here?
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've concluded that there's, that
there's some elements of good stuff.
So the credibility of, I
used to run a web agency.
I've tested most of these tools.
Is really interesting and I think
this is the real pain point, or
there's multiple pain points.
It's not like there's just only one pain
point for someone googling something.
But I think this is one of the
more, um, real time pain points
of the Googler underneath the
phrase, and I tested most feedback
tools in the market along the way.
We've concluded.
Their customer is a web development
agency person, so they're not a beginner.
They do this for a living.
We've concluded that that telling
them what, you know, this elaborate
story, website feedback tools
is too beginner ish for them.
Then their real, so they
know their pain point.
Yes, you can like touch on it like
we said, but their current pain
point at the moment of Googling is
there are a bunch of these tools.
Which one's the best one?
And so, and alt immediately, an
alternative way to intro this that I
think would be very kind of growing,
converting, the way we would write
this is, yes, maybe we define it.
Website feedback tools are this,
and either right after that, or even
without doing that, you say there
are a bunch of different website
feedback tools in the market.
And then you need to like, you can,
you can take this in a few different
ways, but you would say, we wrote
this guide to help you choose.
We also sometimes write it in this way.
We've, we've, we have built one of them
and have been doing this for a long time
and used to run a web agency before.
Here are the features you should be
looking for to find the best one.
Here's what distinguishes the
best one that's touching on a
slightly different pain point.
The pain point of choosing the
right software, not the pain
point the software solves.
You will get to that, especially
when you have the long section
explaining your own software.
You will get to that.
But their immediate pain point is
there's a bunch of these tools that
say they do the same thing, which
is, what do they say organizes this
chaos into a single source of truth.
On the left, there's a bunch of these
tools that he mentions in the piece.
Feed bucket of course, says that
bug herd will say, that marker
will make that claim mark up.
Like, you know, they'll
all say the same thing.
So it's like, well, how
do you differentiate?
And then he gets into that.
He says from, from this experience,
there are three key things you need to
pay attention to when choosing a tool.
This is very grown, converting and,
and I think it's a great thing because
of what I just said, like that's the
real immediate pain point is like,
how am I supposed to evaluate and
decide which one's right for me?
But I. The three bullets he chooses for.
There are three key things
I think could be better.
Number one, he says they need
to be easy for clients to use.
Number two, ability to collaborate.
And number three, deep integrations.
My argument with all three of
them that I expressed to him
was that they sound too generic.
Like any of these tools can say
it, especially the very first one.
Being phrased as needs to be easy to use.
I think in my video to him, I said,
every software ever made makes the
claim that they are easy to use.
So if that's what's bolded in the
bullet like it is now, it's not right.
But inside this bullet is, in my
opinion, the nugget of differentiation
that they sh, that he and feed
bucket should be leaning into hard.
So.
Let me just read this explicitly
needs to be easy for clients to use
as kind of the title of this bullet.
Then it says, all of us who've worked
with clients know this with certainty, I
think is a absolute throwaway sentence.
You don't need to say this again.
Then if you ask clients to install
extensions or learn complex tools, they'll
just default back to sending emails.
That's to me the differentiator.
And if I scroll down to the
feed bucket section, he puts a
screenshot of his homepage, which
is actually slightly different than
his current homepage screenshot.
So I like this old one.
The homepage hero unit, like the title of
his website on the homepage at this time
in the screenshot was collect and manage
website feedback in your existing tools.
It's kind of interesting,
I, I had a side project.
A long time ago with someone who
made a tool kind of in this space.
So I kind of know it.
Um, and because of Growth Rock,
the CRO agency, I've, I've sort
of, kind of glancingly touched on
this, some of these tools before.
Um, I. This is really interesting.
Most of these tools, you're not working in
your existing project management tool set.
You're working in that tool.
You like the, the, the client like marks.
That's why some of 'em are called
marker.io markup.io because they literally
like mark up the website and then you
gotta go and log into your marker account
and like see their feedback and see their
markups and the screenshots or whatever.
And long story short.
Feed bucket, like feeds
that stuff into your Trello,
asana, JIRA, blah, blah, blah.
That's kind of interesting and he
has a really compelling reason that
he says later is, and, and it's, and
it's in that sentence, in that first
bullet, which is a lot of clients don't
want to install a browser extension
just to give you feedback on the
website you're building for them.
They by default work in their
project management software.
And feed bucket does it in there.
So if we now go back to what we said at
the beginning, their audience or their
target customer is this advanced person.
That advanced person probably
knows about these other tools.
Bugger is like a well-known
brand in this space.
Same with market.io.
I think market is like VC funded and
like you knows VC fund of companies.
They always come in with a
huge splash of marketing.
So everyone hears about them.
Like if you say, look.
All, there's a bunch of
website feedback tools.
In fact, I think I would be okay
with skipping the definition of
a website feedback tool and just
assuming they know they Googled it.
Who else is using this?
Not someone building a website one time.
And so if you just said there are
tons of website feedback tools in
the market that all claim the same
thing, which is to consolidate
feedback and neatly in one place.
But there's a big flaw with a lot
of them, which is they ask clients.
To do too much work, like install
extensions, learn their tool and
work in their system, which clients,
in my experience, having run a
web development agency, don't do.
And when they don't do it,
you're back to sending emails.
And so to solve this problem, we built
the first, or what, you know, one
of the first, or whatever, however
you wanna phrase it accurately.
Website feedback tools.
That when the client gives feedback,
it pushes everything to their
native project management tool.
So then the discussion continues where
you know the client is going to be
discussing and it's organized there.
That is eyebrow raising.
If you know this space,
you'd be like, what?
So these three and then ability to
collaborate, I told 'em the same thing.
I was like, uh, they're
all website feedback tools.
Yeah.
That's the whole point
of the product, right?
Is you're supposed to collaborate.
Yeah, like don't, like, doesn't they
probably, they would all say this,
and then integration with project
management tools is kind of interesting.
Like deep integrations.
I would, I would lean into this,
like I said, so if I was him, I
would sit down and be like, okay,
what are my big differentiators?
You don't need three.
Everyone loves three.
You can have one.
We have many, we publish many
things for clients where we're
like, this is the number one issue.
Okay.
So similarly in his feed bucket section,
um, this other kind of issue I see often
in a blog post, these kind of bottom of
funnel content posts, which is repetition.
So he says feed bucket and it's
first, first on our list is
our own creation feed bucket.
Fine.
Um, the tool was born from my firsthand
frustrations, managing websites.
Great.
While running a web agency, I know
exactly how messy these reviews can get.
Starting to get a little bit like
too long and wordy, but like,
you know, it's great to mention
that it came from your own work.
It's exactly why we built Feed
Bucket specifically for agencies.
Fine.
Maybe we can, you know, wordsmith
and cut some words there and
make it more punchy and just keep
one sentence, but that's okay.
And then it just repeats
two key principles shape
the creation of feed bucket.
It has to be dead simple
for clients to use.
Still makes that same mistake of,
yeah, it's not saying anything new
or interesting or different or even
for me, it's like, okay, it's simple.
It's so, so what I mean,
again, anyone can say that.
I don't think that there's
anything different about that.
And, and there's like that nugget
there of that thing is still there.
He says, after working with hundreds of
clients, I learned this the hard way.
If it's not super easy,
they'll just send emails every
single time it, it's in there.
But I, what I would want him to say
is, the two principles shaped it.
Number one, we wanted a tool where
the client can have the discussion in
their native project management tool.
And that's kind of in that second bullet.
I think both of these, his second
bullet title is most web needs to
already use a project management tool.
They should just be combined.
Yeah.
One key principle, like we, I built
feed bucket to solve this one massive
problem because this didn't exist
in existing website feedback tools.
I mean, to some extent that's kind of
the growing, convert, positioning or
message in a lot of our posts like.
We had done content marketing or
worked with agencies and we noticed
this problem is that they, they
focus on traffic and not conversions,
and we wanted to solve that.
Yeah, I think, I think when you tell
it in the story coming from your own
experience, it becomes relatable to
anyone who's been in that same position.
And so you can use that story,
but I think you gotta get clear
on what the exact problem is.
And I, and.
From, you know, this space more than
I do, but I agree with you that the,
the main problem seems to be if you
use any of these other tools, it
becomes difficult for the client.
Yeah.
Um, and then he gets into stuff that
I really like, and I, and then, and
I told him somehow find a way to get
this concisely teased in the intro.
Like everything I've said in this
video, which he says, like, solving
the print, the first principle
starts with how you install the tool.
There's three common
methods with pros and cons.
Number one, a browser extension.
Number two, a shareable link.
Number three, a script.
Tag installed on the website.
Just to, long story short or get
to the ending, his uses the script.
So then he first talks about the first
two, like browser extensions work
great for internal teams, but trust
me on this, they have significant
limitations for client reviews.
You know what, Benji, now that you pointed
out whatever sentence that was before,
oh, the, the, um, single source of truth.
Single source of truth, that there's
a pattern there in this writing.
He's sort of delaying, getting
to the point a little bit
at a, at a sentence level.
Like, I almost want him to say this
browser extensions work great for internal
teams, but, and then after the, but just
say the the key thing, which is, but
getting clients to install extensions.
Clients just don't install extensions.
I've literally had multiple clients
that just refuse to do it and they
would just email the feedback.
I. But instead there's
these like filler words.
Trust me on this.
They have significant limitations.
Just say the limitation.
Well, yeah, because if, if you're
an agency who's dealt with this, you
don't need to be told, trust me on this
because you've dealt with this yourself.
Yes.
That, that, that's, yes.
Good point.
That's that, that, that's the thing.
And, and when you're speaking to
an advanced audience, if, if you're
telling the story and you're saying,
I am one of you, or I have been
one of you before, and these are
the problems that I faced, likely.
These other people are
facing the same exact issues.
So just say the issue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's the detail of the issue
that's gonna get them to, to trust
you, not you saying, trust me.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Actually, when people say, trust me,
it almost makes me trust them less.
You're like, what are
you, what are you hiding?
Trust us.
Don't say, trust me, share.
So then the second one, he says, shareable
links are another popular approach.
It's straightforward, you do
this, that, and the other.
Um, and on the surface it seems
like a great solution, but there,
but there are some real downsides.
Your clients.
Now, again, same thing.
Your clients now need to keep track of
two different links, both their staging
site and the external feedback problem.
Fine.
So then there's this, my last thing,
and we can kind of close with this
because I think the rest of it, when
he gets into the detail, it's good.
I'll actually go over that because
I think he does it better than
a lot of writers, and I wanna
talk about the positive as well.
But, so he basically, he says,
look, you know, there, there
are some small downsides with
the shareable link approach.
Um, and then he gets to the
third thing, which is the script.
Using a, a script to give
feedback or install this.
This is why we chose script
installation for feed bucket.
Then watch this w no wait
before I read further.
And I hope your eyes didn't read further.
What are you expecting to come after this?
So after you've talked, after he's kind
of, you know, talked bad about browser
extensions and the shareable link
method, and he says, this is why we chose
the script installation for feedback.
What are you expecting to
come after that sentence?
I. I don't know why, why it's, why
it's good is what I would expect.
Okay.
Right.
If you're saying, look, there's three
ways to install website feedback tools,
browser extensions, here's why that sucks.
Oh yeah.
The whatever.
Um, yeah, like why it's easier,
why it's the better option.
Right.
But instead he like, kind of
starts off with a downside.
Yeah.
I, I was that so that's
why I was getting hung up.
'cause I did read to the next
sentence and I'm like, I was trying
to think, why would you say it?
It, it.
Yeah.
Saying that you need to do this after
you just said that this is better.
It was kind of confusing.
'cause then I was like, I isn't
this more difficult or now
you're making it seem difficult.
Yeah.
It's like you're just dinging yourself
right before, in fact, just a funny thing
popped in my mind, my dating app analogy.
It would be like when you start to
message a girl to be like, look.
I know I'm not the best looking
guy, but I have a great personality.
Yeah.
You'd be like, why?
Why do you ding yourself at the beginning?
Yes.
It means you need to add a script tag.
It'd be like Louis
Vuitton being like, look.
This is really expensive.
Like, we get it.
But, but you're gonna love the
feeling of this bag after you get it.
Yeah.
But your friends are all
gonna talk about the bag.
It's like, don't ding yourself.
Yes.
It means you need to add
a script tag to your site.
I mean, I guess if I was him,
probably I, my comeback to this line
would be like, the guys, like, you
wanna be honest that there's a Yeah.
And like, and like this
is like a real issue.
It's not, it's not a silly thing.
Like the, you know, like someone buying
a Louis Vuitton bag, like obviously
knows it's expensive, but like.
He might say like, no, like people
literally resist writing a script.
I, I would say I don't care.
Like I still would convince them
like, it, it's probably true.
He probably has had people be like, oh, I
gotta, I gotta ask the client to install
a script, or we gotta install a script.
Like, that's annoying, but I would
just, I don't think you're gonna Yeah.
But, but I, I think the, the, the,
the difference is, you can say the
benefit is that they only need to do
this one thing at the very beginning.
And then they're done and then they don't
need to do anything else after that.
It's like, yes, when we work with,
uh, content clients, there's some
setup works, like we need to get some
access to their analytics, we need
to get tag managers, stuff like that.
There, there's some setup that goes
into the very beginning, but once you
do that, the client's done and they
don't really need to continue to give
us stuff or add anything to their
website, and I think that's, that's kind
of what he's trying to get out here.
What I wanted to say was.
Even if that is real.
Like, he's like, look, if he, if he
was here, he'd probably say like, no.
The people have literally like said
like, I don't want to add a script to
my website, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I still think the way to sell them is not
to be like, I know you don't like this.
Just sell them all the
benefit, and it comes later.
So like, lemme just read all of this so
you, so that the listeners can get it.
Exactly right.
So he says, this is why we chose a
script installation of Feed Bucket.
Yes, it means you need to add a script
tag to your site or use a WordPress
plugin, but this is a small bit of
setup that brings huge benefits.
Again, by the way, this is
not like the end of the world.
I'm, I'm kind of nitpicking a
little bit, but that's fine.
I. And then he says, your
clients only need to remember
one URL, their staging site.
No extensions, no accounts,
no extra platforms to learn.
That's compelling.
And importantly, this is the only
method that allows your clients to
submit feedback on mobile devices.
That's super compelling.
Yeah.
So lead, lead with, I
would just lead with that.
Yeah, exactly.
And then people will deal
with the other part like.
That.
And then actually my Louis Vuitton
analogy was meant to as kind of a joke,
but like, it actually works if you go to
Louis Vuitton purse page, which I will
save everyone from doing, like, just make
it look cool, like everybody knows it's
expensive and so just sell the benefit.
Okay, so then, and then the rest of it,
he gets into sort of the details and,
and, and, and what I wanna highlight here.
And we can put his exact URL in the
show notes, so you can like read the
post carefully yourself and then you can
watch the video and kind of think about
how this applies to your own writing.
But one thing is he spends a lot of time
now I. Going through feed bucket features.
I'm not gonna go through the details
of it, but that's a big thing we've
noticed many people don't do, which
is they feel like when they do these
list posts for these category keywords,
like best X tools or whatever,
that they need to create this fake.
Um, sense of objectivity and, and
allocate an equal amount of space
on the screen to all of the tools.
You don't need to like the, the, the kind
of, the argument there is like, whoa.
But then it'll look bias.
They see the feed bucket
logo on the top left.
They know your bias.
Just put your best foot forward.
Right.
Like it's almost like if I'm
this person Googling, I want feed
bucket's best pitch, I'll decide.
I'm not stupid.
I know I have other options at my table.
Al Al also, with all the AI search, if
you don't do this and it's pulling in
information from your post, great point.
All, all of this nuanced information
about your product and what's better about
it is not gonna make it into that list.
And so.
Yeah, I think this is a better
approach like bug her and marker all
the other companies if, if you're.
Pieces getting pulled from for information
and theirs has minimal information and
yours has all this robust information
about your product that's just gonna
benefit you if someone's looking at that.
Yeah, that's actually a really good point.
We recorded a video on this, but I. I
think we're the day we're recording,
I think next week, so probably
by the time you listen to this,
we will have a piece on our site.
It'll be in like the new post section,
which is this correlation we found
and the video has been out for a
while, so I can say this of 70 to 80%.
In that range of, um, terms in which
we're ranking clients on Google, on
the on page one, the top 10 positions,
when you type the same thing into
CHATT or perplexity, those AI tools
mention our client's name as one of the,
one of the options, one of the tools
for these bottom of funnel queries.
And it's just like this theme of like.
And, and it, and it opens this
whole discussion which we discuss
in the post of like, what's behind
this and why is this happening?
And kind of to like cut to the chase.
There they are.
Basically, there's a huge part of
this where they're Googling chat
g PT uses Bing because Microsoft
is a huge investor and um.
Perplexity has their own web crawler,
but their CEO is on record saying they
also supplement with third party vendors.
And what's funny is Caitlin, who wrote
the Post when she asked Perplexity
itself its own tool, said it uses Google.
So like these tools are pulling
from the SERP and then they're
doing this natural language thing.
Where they're seeing, when they see
the word feed bucket from their,
like in ingested training material
and the things that they're Googling
or whatever, um, they see what
words and concepts are around that.
And the reality of how people search
these talk to these LLMs is, is
different than than the study we did
where we just typed the keyboard in.
People have elaborate detailed
conversations with the LLMs.
They'll be like, Hey, like I'm
in this situation where I need
this thing and I have this client
and I'm need to get feedback.
And they may mention some really
specific detail or feature that you do.
And if you don't have any
material on the internet.
For those LLMs to ingest,
associating your brand name with
that specific thing, you have no
chance of the LLM figuring that out.
These LLMs don't really know anything
other than the material they ingest
and then they regurgitate it back
because their ability to understand
natural language is really good and,
and so like you need to put that in
material that they're gonna ingest.
And so Benji makes a great point, is like
if you are not gonna write that, like
detailed discussions of the exact features
associated with your brand name, in this
case feed bucket, who is, your competitors
are not gonna write that for you and
chat GT's not gonna just figure it out.
It's ingesting this material.
So yeah, that, that's actually a great
point for like being mentioned on LLMs.
So don't, don't be shy here.
Do what Marcus did.
You can read his post and like he has
screenshots, he has details, manage the
feedback, but lemme just recap key things.
Be extra careful about search intent.
I imagine a lot of the people reading
this and, and listening to us and
our audience is obviously people
already in content and SEO and they're
gonna be like, of course, of course.
I know.
Search intent.
Yes.
But read it carefully and say, am
I starting my intros in, uh, a way
that's too beginner for the audience?
Number two, think about your
differentiator when you come down to
be, to start to teach them in these
bottom of funnel kind of tools based.
Posts, when you start to discuss how the
reader should be thinking about tools and
features and what they should look at,
ask yourself are the features that I'm
mentioning too obvious that everyone else
can say, what is my real differentiator?
Side note, we should do another episode
of like this, A breakdown for a tool
that someone feels is not differentiated.
We've had clients like this.
If you have a client or your own company
or whatever and you just genuinely are
like, look, I'm gonna be honest with you,
and we've had clients say this to us and
we've had successful engagements with it.
I'm gonna be honest with you, we're not
really that differentiated, but no one is.
This is a commoditized space.
Everyone has the same features.
So what do we do now?
Please send us some bottom of funnel.
Articles like this for us to
look into possibly breaking
down on on a future episode.
It can be done.
And, and you simply mentioned some
of the benefits, but think carefully
about even the way you're wording it.
Is it just like, just kind of
obvious stuff that anyone would say.
And then number three, lean
into your differentiator.
I, I told Marcus then, and I'm
saying it again here, he's too shy
or soft in selling the script method
and, and it's so buried in here.
I found it because I'm like reading
this carefully to give him feedback,
but if you're just scrolling around,
I. Remember my, my dating app analogy.
The SERP is like someone being able
to swipe through a million profiles.
They have another profile is
just waiting right behind yours.
And so like the SERP is behind this
in another tab, they can just go
to another site and get another
list of website feedback tools.
So like you have a very fragile
relationship with the reader and so.
It's buried in here.
The fact, this idea of this stuff just
in feed bucket, it's in your project,
native project management tool.
They don't need to do anything.
They don't need to install anything
and therefore that's better.
And here's why that's better.
It's he, I think he should lean
into that hard and much harder.
Like you can check our website for that.
We'd lean into it extremely hard.
We felt self-conscious that maybe we
lean into it too much of just like
everyone else is chasing traffic and
we're, we're looking at conversion.
So those are the three principles.
I think to, to take away here.
And I wanna say thank you again to
Marcus for being a great, um, sport
and asking us to do this and, and
being great about the feedback.
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