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BRAVE SOULS WANTED.
Failure almost certain. Attempting is unwise.
Far east adventure. Success is changing the world.
Join us on the Unsensible podcast where we talk to the Asian startups and their ecosystem partners who are intent on changing the world.
Welcome back to the Unsensible podcast. I'm your host, Karis. Today, I'm so happy to be joined by Eri Koyano, the founder of menux , which is a groundbreaking platform changing the way fans engage at sports event. Eri has an incredible journey so far, including an appearance on make money survive, which is a Japanese version of Shark Tank. menux X is also a semifinalist at takeoff Tokyo 2023 and won third place in the Google for startup pitch.
Karis Cheng:So today, Eri will be sharing her journey to becoming a founder, the ins and outs of pivoting, and what sets Western and Eastern startup apart. So welcome, Eri. We're so glad to have you here.
Eri Koyano:Hi. Thank you, Karis, for having me on the show. Really excited to be here.
Karis Cheng:Before we dive into your start up, menux, I think what our listeners would really love to understand is a face behind the platform, which is you. In our previous chat, you mentioned your journey spans 3 very different markets. You're born in the US. You're raised in Hong Kong, and now you're building a start up in Japan. How has this global perspective changed the way you think about building a
Eri Koyano:So I was born in, in the US, and, I was raised in Hong Kong. I went to an international school. And even with my 6 years there, I transferred schools every 2 years. I went through an American education, British education, Japanese education system. So the values were always different wherever I went.
Eri Koyano:The people were different. The language was different. My life has always been about adapting to new places and how can I you know, survive in this new atmosphere that I'm placed in and then change right away and kind of switch languages and switch mindsets? I think that has given me this perspective of change is not anything really scary. It kind of gave me the skills to survive wherever I am and adapt to wherever location and people that I'm with.
Karis Cheng:There's one thing very interesting about your background I would also like to highlight. You went for spot marketing for the Tokyo Olympics. That was huge, and it's, like, very different from what you were doing before. So what drew you to that role, and how did that experience influence what you're building today?
Eri Koyano:Yeah. So, originally, I started my career, in LA at an ad agency. And so I was doing advertising and marketing, and that was my background. I was actually, on the creative side as a producer. And I worked there for a few years, and I kind of saw what my career could look like if I stayed at an ad agency.
Eri Koyano:And I was at a point where that looked stable and it looked it was a great career to have, but I wanted something different. I wanted to kind of experience something completely new. And so I wanted to try something that I can only do in my twenties. So I was 20 I think I was, like, 25 or 26 at the time. And that was right when they announced that Tokyo Olympics was gonna be happening in Japan in 2020.
Eri Koyano:They just announced it. So I just came up with an idea of, okay. Well, I want to eventually come back to Japan to work. I've never worked in Japan before. So I wanna work, something related to the Olympics in 2020.
Eri Koyano:But before that, I wanna take a year. I wanna travel, and I wanna learn to speak Spanish. And that was my goal. And so I I quit my job, and I packed my life into a suitcase, and I traveled for a year. And then I came back to Japan and found a job in an Olympics, and I kind of dove right in.
Karis Cheng:And other interesting twist in your background is, COVID. Okay? COVID happened at one point. You know, minor inconvenience of a global pandemic, changing everyone's plan, you know, just a little bit. You took that moment.
Karis Cheng:You took that the time of the world coming to a halt to do something quite different. You, joined a coding boot camp. And I remember in a previous chat, you've mentioned it was one of the hardest things you have done. So what made it so challenging, and what did it teach you?
Eri Koyano:Right after, you know, I got my dream job, I thought I was gonna be experiencing the Olympics, and and I'm gonna maybe continue my, you know, career in the sports, event world. But then the COVID happened, and because no one was hiring, I decided to jump into this world of coding and try to pivot into tech. And I thought that I was gonna become a software engineer, and I'm gonna be, you know, I get to live, you know, work remotely, and I can live in Bali and use my computer and work, you know, for a company. And I thought that was gonna be my life. And I went into it, and it was incredibly hard.
Eri Koyano:I don't understand how some people can just pivot their career and become an engineer in 3 months. I clearly could not do it. I graduated, of course, but the eye opening part for me was being surrounded by these logical minded people. The way they think and the way they communicate with people are just so different from what happens in the ad agency world, you know, in the sports world. But I did find a space for myself where I thought I originally thought I'm gonna be a software engineer, but I did realize that there's actually a need for a place for someone like me who has a background in, you know, marketing and communication skills is is being my strength.
Eri Koyano:Being able to be the bridge between the business and the tech, and I think that's a key role for a product manager. And I found that while I was in school and I decided that this is probably where I'm going to, you know, thrive in.
Karis Cheng:All these different chapters in your life, like your international background, obviously, the Olympic experience, and even like the coding boot camp, like you realizing how you can become a bridge between the tech and the end consumer. Like, all these things seem to just converge at one point to prepare you for what was coming next, which is what we're going to be talking about. Your startup, Menu x. I remember you talk about when Menu x first started is not what it is right now. So talk us through that journey.
Eri Koyano:During COVID, I worked a few months from the US, and I saw the QR code menus at restaurants, that, you know, happened very, very early on in the US. It was very common, and I thought this is great. Like, let's bring this to Japan. And I very quickly learned that, you know what, I could actually probably try to do this on my own. When I first started my company, it was supposed to be for restaurant tech.
Eri Koyano:But as I was doing all the paperwork, and in Japan, it does take a really long time to just, you know, do one simple paperwork to get through. It took a few months to actually, create my company. And by the time I incorporated, all these big companies, came up with the restaurant menus. And so, very quickly, it became a competitive market. And in Japan, you just can't win if you don't have the connections.
Eri Koyano:And I was not able to compete against these giants. I saw very quickly that this is going to be a very tough market for me, you know, single handedly trying to run this when they're they have a whole army of people trying to sell this, technology. So I kind of thought back about my background and I wanted to utilize my connections and experiences that I had in, the Olympics. And I remember and, you know, culturally too, I know that in Japan, people are obsessed with lines. And I think this is a very common thing in in a lot of Asia too.
Eri Koyano:I think we're, you know, we're we'll very patiently just wait in line until we what we want. Something very different from the west. And I thought, you know what? This time can be spent monetizing. This this time where people are waiting can be improved.
Eri Koyano:And it's very common even in concerts or sports events, people come and wait in line for merch 2, 3, 4 hours before game time. Yeah. And, all of it is handled a lot of it is, you know, with cash. And so I thought, okay. Why don't we try to enhance this experience for the fans, and in return, try to actually, create a data entry point for to provide to the event organizers so we can actually help them with marketing and enhance sales by actually collecting and analyzing data.
Karis Cheng:What a journey from menu QR code to realizing why people queuing in lines into thinking about ways to improve that experience. What advice would you give about when to stick to your original vision, grind it out, or when to pee fit? Like, how do you know?
Eri Koyano:For me, the restaurant pivot was very easy because just understanding the culture in the market and also trying it out, I think that's one important thing, Test it out and and see if it works, and see how you feel. Right? So when I did the restaurants, I actually you know, we built the product and we said, hey. Let's try to, you know, give it out to restaurants for free and let's see if they will use it. And so I actually did, like, cold call walk in into restaurants, and I actually tried to talk to these restaurants.
Eri Koyano:And that was probably the most hardest experience I've had. And now I know that I'm terrible with sales. Just, you know, realizing that, wow, restaurant people are very, very they're nontechnical, first of all. Right? And there a lot of them are 90 over 90%.
Eri Koyano:It's a male dominated industry. And, you know, it's a very, like, grit. Right? You put your years in and then you can maybe have a a a restaurant. And so, you know, here comes a girl, a woman that walks in and say, hey, you know, we're gonna enhance your sales by 30% if you just, you know, use this product.
Eri Koyano:I mean, these Japanese men were not happy with it at all. And a lot of the times, it was they expected me to come and eat at the restaurant multiple times until they would even look at me or even, like, have a conversation with me. And I very, very quickly realized that this was going to be time and money consuming, both of which I didn't have. Mhmm. And so for me, it was just it was pretty an obvious decision to just be like, okay.
Eri Koyano:I I can I could do this if I had the time and money, which I don't? But let's try to find something that is, you know, a a quicker route. Mhmm. And and so that's that's how I pivoted.
Karis Cheng:Yeah. I am curious about how do you validate these new decisions. So when you decide to switch to a fan engagement platform, what kind of moment or is there some metrics that tell you, yeah, I'm moving in the right direction?
Eri Koyano:I'm kind of always stumbling into these situations where I see, okay, this is a problem. Let's try to test it if people will like it. And then I and then I, you know, experience other people or talk to different people, and I say, okay. Well, this is actually the pain point. And I I think I'm also still in that discovery phase of figuring out what the actual core problem it is that I wanna solve.
Eri Koyano:And I think you also have to understand that this industry changes so quickly, and it's not really about when you, you know, make that decision or pivot. It's about how you how you navigate after you make that decision. That's the harder part, and that's that shows whether you can survive or not, I think.
Karis Cheng:Before we dive deeper, I think this is a perfect moment for you to help our listener understand what is MenuX. So can you tell us what MenuX is today in 30 seconds?
Eri Koyano:Yes. So MenuX right now, we're on a mission to revolutionize fan engagement through practical tools and experiences, and we wanna guide fans from all the way from anticipation to celebration. From the moment you know that you're going to this event, we wanna help you stay excited. And when your team wins, we wanna be there to actually get you more excited and want you to come back to the stadium and continue to, follow the fan and continue this journey of of this excitement. And that can be in the right now, we're starting in the shape of, a stream seamless experiences with merchandise.
Eri Koyano:But in the future, I see this with, gamification or raffles or meet and greets or exclusive exclusivity. And we wanna, just bring in more exciting features to get people just have fun. I mean, it's after COVID, we can meet people. We can actually be in one place, and, like, I wanna help people get excited.
Karis Cheng:Do you have any interesting story you can tell us about these, like, anticipation and celebration that you've encountered since you started?
Eri Koyano:Interesting stories. When when, you know, people go globally, when they look at Japan, they think like, oh my gosh. Japan is so high-tech, and we're, you know, one step ahead, and and, you know, we're the future. And that's amazing, but that's really kind of the world that is created through media because when you actually work here, it's incredible how archaic our work culture is. And, you know, when I pivoted into sports and I started interviewing people and I said, hey, Where do you guys collect your data?
Eri Koyano:And they say, we don't. And I said, well, how do you know who's buying your product, or how do you know who your fans are? And they say, we don't want it. We don't need it. Okay.
Eri Koyano:They would actually they find data actually more of, liability for them because they're more worried about, leaking the data. What do we do if we accidentally leak the data? And even with sales, they don't have the data because they're still doing sales with fax machines, and they have these printouts. It's one thing to try to try to sell someone this new experience of fan engagement and games and, you know, like, it all seems like a cool idea. But when you know that they're still in a place of, you know, managing their fan clubs and Excel sheets or fax machines, you can't start there.
Eri Koyano:And so it's really how can you connect with the people that you're trying to sell to? How can you actually empathize with them and support them? It's it's kind of like an educational phase, not just for myself, but also for them. And Yeah.
Karis Cheng:Have you started seeing some attitude shift or change in, you know, slowly embracing the data?
Eri Koyano:I think as a culture, we tend to get really excited with buzzwords. And so right now, of course, the trend is AI, and everyone's talking about AI this, AI that. But, you know, there's so many times where I have to be like, AI is great, but also, like, let's step away from Excel sheets first before AI. Right? Let's get away from fax machines for a
Karis Cheng:Baby steps. Baby
Eri Koyano:steps. Baby steps. Baby steps. So it's it's, yeah, managing that expectation and the gross speed and and and I think they're willing to or they're seeing how technology can have powerful, influence to business, but it's also, you know, trying to take baby steps to get there.
Karis Cheng:Is there any particular learning or knowledge or insights that, you're applying to Menu X right now from, Tokyo Olympics?
Eri Koyano:I think just seeing how it doesn't even matter what your background is. It doesn't even matter if you love the sport or not. It doesn't matter if you're a super fan. Just for this hour, 2 hour period, fans that come in the stadium have really built the energy there, and everyone's there for one goal. And it doesn't matter if you don't speak the language, doesn't matter if you know the rules.
Eri Koyano:It it none of that matters. Right? And it's that energy is something that I wanna be able to recreate or enhance that through technology. And so I always try to keep that in mind of, you know, what is fan engagement and and what does excitement mean? And can we actually scale that to something that goes outside of a sports stadium?
Eri Koyano:Can that translate into, for example, you know, a music festival or a food festival or even, you know, shopping malls or or anywhere really that has a group of people with one same goal. How can we enhance that experience for those people? I try to to always keep that in mind.
Karis Cheng:So last time when we chat, I did ask you one question about, oh, what what what do you think is one thing that you really wanna share with our listeners? And we touch upon the topic of Western versus Eastern startup. Japan startup ecosystem will be very different from Silicon Valley or even Hong Kong where you've also lived. So how has your, you know, understanding of the Asian market evolved since starting MenuX?
Eri Koyano:As a as a country, we're getting to a point and realizing that start ups are something that, you know, should be, we should help enhance as a government. And so there's more and more, you know, accelerator programs and fundings that really help these start ups. But there's just so few of us here, and I think part of it comes from just the type of education we have here too, where we're kind of taught to, we're raised to learn that stability is success, to be in a good name company in a corporate and to, you know, have a good title and to just be there. And as a manager of a big corporate, like, that's that's what that's what success looks like. And no one has ever said it's okay to fail or, like, try something and, you know, just try it out for the sake of trying it out.
Eri Koyano:That's just not how our our education system is. The reason why I decided to incorporate here instead of in the US is it's just so easy to stand out because there's just really none of us here. You know? There's there's there's really only so many start ups early start ups here and let alone, like, a female founder. There's just there's really not many of us.
Eri Koyano:And so with that, you stand out whether, you know, for good or bad. But if you can take that to your advantage, I think, it's a really good opportunity to take your startup to a next level, and I think I've been able to leverage that.
Karis Cheng:I remember that's, like, a very interesting story you shared about building in Japan, about offering something for free in Japan is a very different thing versus, in Western world.
Eri Koyano:The one wrong choice I made building my startup is I assumed too quickly before knowing my audience. And when I first created MenuX for the restaurant industry, we built it very quickly, and we said, hey. Let's just try to test this, for free. Let's try to have people use it for free. There's no, you know, fees for them.
Eri Koyano:They won't lose anything. We just want the experience, and we just want to know you know, we wanna get feedback. Why wouldn't people use it? Right? So I we're like, great.
Eri Koyano:This is great. We'll just walk into these restaurants, have people use it for free, and we're just gonna have so much data that eventually, you know, we can sell it. And we just assume that that that was how it's gonna be. But in Japan, very quickly, I realized, that there's nothing more there's nothing more doubtful to this culture than free. Free means that it's something sketchy.
Eri Koyano:Like, why is it free? You know, whereas in the west, like, free. Yeah. People free is free. Yeah.
Eri Koyano:Like, free pizza? Awesome. Right? Like, people will show up. But here, it's it's free doesn't always mean a good thing.
Eri Koyano:And, you know, we offered it for free, and and it was the I the response I got was why? You know, what's behind it, and also, like, why would we use a free product? Like, there must be something wrong with it.
Karis Cheng:Yeah. Nothing is for free now. No more. If you can go back and give advice to younger Aerie, when you first start at Menuex, what would you say?
Eri Koyano:Oh my gosh. You know, I the one advice. You know, to be honest, I feel like I wouldn't do anything else any differently than I have, And I think that's just my personality too, but I kinda jumped into it. I had no idea what I'm doing. Like, barely had a product, you know, completely assumed that people were gonna use something that we built that no one wanted.
Eri Koyano:And we just jumped in, and we just said, hey, we're gonna do it. We incorporated, and let's go. But I'm not sure that I would do it any other way had with my experience that I had back then. Maybe maybe there is one, and I think this is still something it's not really advice because I'm still struggling for it right now, is I think, have a partner. You know?
Eri Koyano:Have a partner to try to do this together with. But be careful with who you choose to because this is, like, a marriage. Right? You're gonna be, like, married to this person as a partner of a business. And so, you know, don't jump into it too quickly.
Eri Koyano:You don't have to, you know, make decisions very quickly because this one will be quite, permanent. Permanent. Yeah. This person is the one that's going to either make or break your business. But I do wish that I had a partner early on to help guide me, in the places that I don't have, the skill sets for.
Karis Cheng:Oh, we've covered so much ground today, from your, you know, global experience to finding the right problem to solve to, you know, really fascinating cultural insight in Japan. But what I love most about founders is what I call their superpower. They always see something others don't see yet. So I have to ask, when you, you know, think about or imagine the future of sports fan engagement in maybe Japan or beyond, what excites you the most?
Eri Koyano:I see sports as something kind of similar to the way I was raised where I was just always moving around. And the sports is similar in a way where it doesn't like, you know, it really doesn't matter what your background is. Just for that hour, like I mentioned earlier, and just for that time, people can be happy and excited and have you know, be connected. And and that's what I think really excites me or that's what I strive for is how we can actually connect with people that are maybe on the other side of the world or maybe not even speaking a language or just, you know, maybe not even having this interest. But how can we actually take sports or take a technology and help people connect, you know, in a way that's outside of the traditional just going to a stadium and physically watching a game?
Eri Koyano:How can we actually use technology to connect with people different in a different way outside of just sitting down?
Karis Cheng:Yeah. Sustaining that sort of connection or engagement outside of the field or outside of a stadium of the use of technology. So as we're recording now is November, and we're approaching the the end of year and you know, 2025 is the time you take out a new notebook and mark down your new year resolution. So bringing it back to menu x specifically, what is next for MenuX? What are the new year resolution you're writing down?
Eri Koyano:I think, you know, we this year was a big one for me because we were able to get our first customer and, you know, testing different things. And so now MenuX has turned into, I think this is what they want to getting closer to, like, this is this is what they want. How can we actually enhance this? And I'm talking to now more different types of sports teams and sports organizations and even people outside of the industry like like events as well and music. And what has become clear for me, with menu x is I really want this to be utilized or somehow partnered, for the LA Olympics in 2028.
Eri Koyano:So that's what I'm really looking forward to and looking into because it's not just, I think, you know, a a company goal, but it's also something for a personal one too where it was I was part of it and I didn't get to experience it fully. And so I would love to to join that, now with my own company and trying to see how we can, enhance this fan engagement. Maybe it's just for, you know, all the Japanese tourists going into LA, or maybe I think it can take different forms. Maybe it's games. Maybe it's I still haven't, you know, really made that concrete, but, that's also on my list too is figuring out how can I actually get to my clear goal of 2028?
Eri Koyano:That's what I wanna figure out in 2025.
Karis Cheng:Amazing. I'm having goosebumps. I'm so excited for you. Hopefully, in 2028, you can look back at this podcast and say, like, hey, I made it, Eri. I hope so. You recently posted about how hard it is and how isolating it can feel being a founder, and I think that's something that we have heard time and again. So thank you very, very much for sharing your story with us today. I think your experience here can really, you know, give a lot of comfort and above all, a sense of camaraderie to fellow founders or people who are trying to build something and trying to change the world for the better. So thank you so much, Eri, for joining us today.