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Andrew Le Jeune talks with the sport's biggest names to discuss the one race that stands out in their memory. Jockeys, trainers, owners, broadcasters and officials all take a turn at recalling the stories behind their biggest racing moments on 'The Race'.
Idol Horse (00:01.422)
The Melbourne Cup with its international standing is high on most people's wish lists. What it wants is amazing. What's better than that? Well, winning it twice, of course. And that's what Al-Mandid did for Kirim Akeboe back in 2016. It's been a relentless run, the Cup. Who's going to be the last man standing? Hartnell and Jamaica peel to the outside.
Here comes Heartbreak City letting down with a beautiful run too. Up the middle of the course and Elmandon joins in. Heartbreak City and Elmandon race up to Hartnell. They look the free from Al Murnquist. It's Heartbreak City. Elmandon on the outside. They've pared down to fight it out. Heartbreak City to the inside and Elmandon on the outside. Elmandon and Heartbreak City. What a finish to the Melbourne Cup. Elmandon putting his nose in front of Heartbreak City. They hit the line. Elmandon. Elmandon won it by a very narrow margin from Heartbreak City. Five links away was Hartnell.
third. QE next over followed by who shot the barman. In the well-known colors of Lloyd Williams winning a hard-fought victory there. Al Mandin giving it the time. His famous cup chasing owner is a record fifth win in the roast and providing Karen with his second after brew in the year 2000. I'm Andrew Lejeune this is the race brought to you by Idlehorst. I'm pleased to say that Karen McAvoy joins us now. Karen great to have your company today too.
to relive what I'm assuming is a race that you may be slightly more prepared for than your first win in the contest and your first ride in the race as well, 16 years earlier on, Drew. Yeah, why, Andrew? Definitely was. was a long time between drinks, but it was a very enjoyable day. Looking back now, I didn't mind waiting the 16 years to salute again on Elm End. was a dream come true to be able to grab that trophy again. One of the reasons, I suppose, for that
break between drinks was your time in Europe, which might come back to a little bit later on. give us a bit of the back story to Almandin, because it looked like on paper he was really built, like a real sort of time, sense of timing to having won his two previous races. But you weren't on board for that, Damon Oliver was. So how did the ride come about? Yeah, I suppose I was lucky that I didn't get Ollie's weight in the Melbourne Cup. And as you said, he was only in Australia for a short period of time. I think he'd only had sort of four or five runs before.
Idol Horse (02:15.246)
that Melbourne Cup that year, but he was quite dominant winning at core field. won the Harry White listed race there, 2400. And then, you know, a couple of weeks later, he went to Flemington over 2500 and won the Bart Cummings with 55 on his back. he, he, he won by length and a half and looked as though he could have won by a bit further. And, know, he got into the Melbourne Cup with 52 on his back and I was a lucky recipient. I'd sort of been in good form leading up to it. And having had ridden for Lloyd Williams,
previously and had a bit of success for Lloyd. was kind enough to throw the colours to me and it was an interesting one because going to such a massive race and he was well on the market, I hadn't had the chance to ride him in a race and Lloyd was adamant he didn't want me to ride him track work. He said, no, no, the horse is going fine. We're going to keep the routine in place. So was an interesting build up.
for myself not having had to sit on the horse. But the more I looked at the race, I reckon I remember really thinking, jeez, the more confident I got. I can't remember ever going into a big race like that with more confidence than what I went into that year in the Melbourne Cup. And what was that based on? that what the stable was telling you as well, that the horse is absolutely flying? Was that you just looking through the form and all of the replays and just coming to your own conclusions?
Yeah, bit of everything, I suppose. Stephen King was riding for Lloyd at the time, truck work, and Stephen King gave me a good push. I knew he was a great judge as well. And just when I looked at the race, I just got more more confident in the way the race was setting up and obviously his opposition as well. So I knew the horse would stay. I think the main issue was just obviously getting luck in running. But I went there very confident and
I remember when I got on him going down to the start, was giving me a very good feel. was in such good form. was bright and well and actually took me on a little bit going to the start. He was a little bit keener than what I would have liked. And I remember just saying to myself, right, I just have to get him covered up wherever that may be. And when we sprung the lids, we we began really well and a lot better than a horse that bossy was on on my inside.
Idol Horse (04:36.398)
forget the horse's name now, but he was a grey horse anyway. When we jumped a half length clear of him, I was like, right, just grabbed him and tucked him straight in behind and got him to the cover and switched him off. That was the first job done through the first furlong. It was a nice start to that year's cup. He travelled so smoothly after that.
So that didn't bother you at all then in terms of the first time you ever getting on the horse when they said no just see you on race day. So just getting the leg up for the first time you were happy with that. You're just like, okay, if that's what you want, that's what's on. It's one thing going to Hawkesbury and riding a horse for the first time but Flemington in the Cups, another story surely. Yeah, definitely. I was a little bit anxious about that but I chatted to Ollie about it and obviously Stephen King was great. And I suppose you can watch replays closely and having...
ridden in such close quarters with the likes of Damien Oliver. I've got a lot of confidence having seen the replay of him, sorry, him in the Bark Cummings. I could tell that he was pretty impressed with the horse and he no doubt would have gave him a good feel that day winning. So I've got a lot of confidence from that and yeah, just tried to put their intel to good use come cupped up.
have much interaction with Lloyd outside of that telling you, you know, we were happy just to see you on Tuesday before or after the race or is it very much to keep himself to himself? No, beforehand we spoke a few times. I remember, you know, when I chased the ride, Lloyd was, Lloyd likes to do a lot you know, you can talk to him over the phone, but a lot of the jockey bookings is done by text and I remember being pretty happy when he texts through confirmation that I could ride it. So, but yeah, we chatted, you know,
Once the barriers were out, we chatted more at length about the race. And Lloyd, I remember, gave me a very blank page. He said, look, you you're the jockey. There wasn't any tied down set instructions by Lloyd. And that was great as well, because it just sort of freed me up and to have sort of confidence in my own decision making once the barriers open, which is crucial in any race, let alone a Melbourne Cup. So you threw the first furlong exactly where you want to be. It's then just a case of just sitting and waiting.
Idol Horse (06:50.222)
and bide your time till something happens. We get into that, I suppose, into the long run, into the straight. That's when you really start to thinking about where you want to be and where all the movers are. Yeah, exactly. We had him in a of just worse than midfield position. I remember as we sort of went past the mile, Chad Schofield was on a horse. He might have even been on another one of Lloyd's actually. And Heartbreak City was, he was another favoured runner in the race.
Joe Marrera was on him and at the time Joe was three deep and I remember I was on the back of Chad and had the option to sort of pop out and follow Joe if I wanted to and there was a key part of the race past that mile was that Chad was able to sort of kick up and hold his spot which I was hoping he would do just to hold heartbreak, see that little bit wider around the corner and then as we went further on sort of down past the 800 metre mark another pivotal part of the race was our Ivanhoe was
sort of stopping and giving ground after having a wide run. And I was nearly going to go out on his outside and go around him. Obviously he was stopping quite quickly. there was a key moment where Joe Marrera decided to go back towards the inside rather than take the run that I ended up taking. And by doing that, he went inside. I think it was a horse of Ciaran Mars. And I was able to then duck back to the inside, save a fair bit of ground, go inside our Ivanhoe, which then...
had us sort of joining up at the top of the straight, so to speak. And such a thrilling finish, knowing you got a lap full of horse underneath you at the top of the line and joining up to go toe to toe with Joe Marrera, who was the magic man in Hong Kong at the time. was, I'll never forget that moment. And it was a great feeling knowing my horse just had the edge. I gave him a couple of reminders as he went past the furlong and then he felt that he was giving his best and he just, he wanted to lay in a little bit and I didn't want to
give my horse too many reminders and have him lane and bump Joe Maria and possibly lose the race on protest. So I put the whip down and pushed hard and we got up by, I think the margin was a short half head or something. yeah, it was a gutsy performance by my horse. And can you always feel, even when the margins are that small, can you always feel that you've got the measure of somewhere you're just half a head in front that you're holding your position and the horse isn't stopping? Do you still have that confidence in those tight finishes?
Idol Horse (09:13.73)
Yeah, I think so. can feel if your horse is stopping and my horse was fuller running and I was confident he was going to run the two miles out strongly, which is what he did. And at the same time, I was keeping a close eye on, I suppose the effort Marira was showing in the saddle and he looked to be all out on his horse as we passed the furlong. And that proved correct because his horse just didn't have the...
the last finish that my horse had showed in the last 100 metres. So I suppose you're getting a feel of what the rider's doing next year as well as the feel that your horse has given you. So it was a special moment, that's for sure, one I'll never forget. he's, mean, Joe's a fierce competitor, but across the line, two strides after the line, he gives you big pat on the back. So a great sportsman as well. Yeah, that was a special moment. I think it was a pat anyway, wasn't it? Yeah, it was a hard pat too.
He obviously had more left, maybe more than his horse. But no, full credit. That was a touching moment by him to congratulate me. And he's in awe of Melbourne Cup and a lot of our other big races here. And yeah, it was a special moment, that's for sure. I just had a quick look just to, because it was killing me, which those horses are oceanographers. It's one of Charlie Appleby's horses. Chad was riding. yeah, that's right. Yeah. And Grey Lion. Grey Lion, The boss he was on.
That's right, For Matt Kimani. There you go. how do you celebrate or do you celebrate differently as a 30 something year old compared to being a 20 year old and your first one? It was your first ride as well when you won on Brew. Yeah. First ride in the race, obviously. First ride in the cup. that was, remember we celebrated, we went to Jack's Sate Bar, which was a local haunt in Mooney Ponds. It was a restaurant that Mike Barone and myself
We enjoyed many good nights there, so we went and celebrated there. But after Almandon, we went to the Crown and had a great night. I had my father there, obviously Lloyd and Nick Williams, plenty of other owners in the horse. And another good moment was Frankie Dottori joined in as well. He was in town riding, so got some nice photos with Frankie, which was fantastic. And yeah, it's nice to look back on and remember those great winds and fond memories.
Idol Horse (11:32.942)
A lot of people you speak to, regardless of the sport, when they win something when they're very young for the first time, a lot of people say, I didn't really appreciate it, but you sort of can it in later years. Do you have that similar sort of feeling as well? Yeah, definitely. suppose I think the time between when I look back now, I mean, I appreciate I think at the time I appreciated what I was able to achieve. So I remember walking out after Brew and I walked out with David Hall and Brett Preble and we were walking to the car and Hawley
David Hall said to me, goes, you know, your life is never ever going to be the same again. And I still remember him turning to me and saying that as we were walking to the car park and he was correct. And luckily for David, he was able to do it later with MacCabe Diva. so the 16 years between my first and second wins, I suppose it really did instill the fact in me that it's such a tough race to compete in and be competitive in, let alone win.
You know, it just made me cherish it that little bit more. And, you know, I'm I'm very privileged in that I can ride light. It opens up so many doors for me in those big handicaps. And and yeah, I do realize how lucky I am to be able to do that. And you mentioned Frankie before as well. He's been trying to win it for a long time and it's had a lot of rides for Lloyd as well. You've had a great relationship with Frankie from your time riding for Goodolphin in Europe.
Yeah, fantastic memories as well and time that I really cherish to be able to think back and think that I was able to ride for one of the biggest stables in the world or the biggest owner in the world and be number two under Frankie Dattori's wing. He was fantastic for my career over there and we still speak regularly. He's a phenomenal rider as we know.
special times that I was like a sponge, was taking it all in and I was able to speak to him if I wasn't at riding work with him, I was speaking to him on the phone and talking about this, that and the other different tracks. I'll be up north and little tracks like Thursk and Redcar and Haydock and he'd be giving me all the tips on this, that and the other. So brilliant times and I was able to ride some great winters for Good Ulf and over there.
Idol Horse (13:56.878)
in Dubai and also in England and Europe as well. Fantastic memories and I'll never forget some of those times. Was that difficult decision when speaking to Tommy on an earlier episode, suggested you as a future guest and said how much he admired you, the fact that you'd been to Europe and you'd been so successful over there.
wasn't necessary. I you weren't the first Australian to jockey to go to Europe. There's been a few in the past, been very successful as well, but it's not a familiar path to take. So was that a difficult decision, even knowing you were going to ride for such a big operation? Where were you sort of personally at that stage as well? You were married, you were still single? Where were you at? Yeah, I was still single. Cathy, my now wife, she was Nia Payne, Cathy Payne, she rode in her own riding from the famous Payne family. So we were still together and
As a kid, I remember I did actually love English racing and I had a book on the Mac Toom family and their famous racing colours and studied the book fiercely as a young kid. So I was quite intrigued with, know, obviously Frankie Dottori and his career and English racing. So I was very lucky that it's quite unique how the opportunity turned out.
Riding quite well in 2002, I was out of my time, obviously won the Melbourne Cup and the Blue Diamond and a few others. And there was a day early spring 2002 and I rode four winners and one of the races was the the Guineas Prelude on a horse for Liam MacDonald and a couple for Mike Morrone. Anyway, I had four winners and the prize that day for the leading jockey was a trip to Dubai and back. later on that spring of 2002.
Godolphin had a horse called Beekeeper coming out. He had a light weight of like 52. And so I picked up the ride on him in the Caulfield Cup and he ran well. Then I rode him in the Melbourne Cup and he ran third to Media Puzzle. And I said to Simon Crisford at the time, I've got this trip to Dubai, can I come and ride some track work? And sure enough, they agreed to that. I went out there the next January, which was the start of the 2003 Dubai World Cup Carnival.
Idol Horse (16:16.79)
I took my saddle thinking, you know, I stay for 10 days or two weeks. Anyway, bang, got a winner, first meeting. And they asked me to stay on and I stayed on. I ended up staying for the whole carnival, which was, you know, three months long. And I rode like 10 or 12 winners. And so it was just sort of Johnny on the spot type thing, you know, and came home, rode back in Australia. They invited me back for the next carnival, which was 2004. So I thought, beautiful, I'll go again. Anyway, back in the day, I got out there and they offered me
the gig to go back to England with them for that summer in the UK. And I just couldn't believe it. was, you know, I just jumped at the opportunity. It was remarkable how it all sort of unfolded. I was just, you know, I suppose have subtle wheel travel and just the thought alone to be riding alongside Frankie Dottori was, you know, just amazing. And yeah, that's how it sort of unfolded. So, yeah, I didn't have to think twice about it, I must admit. And yeah, I stayed for
five flat seasons out there, was great. then the toughest decision was actually having the job offered back here in Australia when Dali took board out the Ingham's. That was a really tough decision because at the time I was just loving it over there and Cathy, my wife, had a job and she wasn't race riding over there, but she was riding work for James Fanshawe. And we were newly married and we just sort of thought,
It's going to be a great opportunity back in Australia and we were expecting our first child as well. So, yeah, we decided to come home. So it was a bit of sadness to leave England behind because it had been a fantastic experience. And full circle, I suppose, then great to get that Melbourne Cup win for Fork Adolphin with cross counter a couple of years after Almendon. Yeah, well, at the start of it all, that was the main goal for me was to try and win the Melbourne Cup.
for Shaikh Mohammed and get off and, and, you know, I've been blessed to get on some good horses and, you know, I've been able to win the Caulfield Cup for him as well on All the Good in 2008. So yeah, you know, that was a really special day as well to win on cross counter for Charlie Appleby, who was a good friend of mine at the stable as well. And, you know, he's taken all before him in his own training career for Shaikh Mohammed. So that was, that was a fantastic moment to win the cup for Shaikh Mohammed.
Idol Horse (18:45.742)
So the Melbourne Cup has been reasonably kind to you in some shape or form with those three wins. It doesn't always go to plan though. Is there one race that you're still desperate to win or a particular ride or race that you'd want to do over in that just keeps eluding you at the moment? You know what, there's two races actually, but the main one is the VRC Derby. It's a race that I've ran second in four times. It's been a bit of a bugbear for me.
There's been some unlucky seconds in it as well. Two of them for Dali and Peter Snowden. One was horse called Injunna and another one called Complacent. Complacent, got bowled over going out of the straight the first time. There was an unruly horse that really did take us off course. So that's been the race that's gotten away from me many times. And the AJC Derby as well, I haven't been able to get one of those.
I've won an SAJC Derby being a South Australian boy. That's nice to have that one. yeah, VRC Derby would be a great one. Are you a hard task, Mike? you tough on yourself with things like that? Even when it's completely out of your control, do you go back and relive it over and over again, watch the video? If only this would have happened, that might have happened. Yeah, they came on the TV actually on Sky Racing or racing.com, one of them a few months ago. I remember watching them and just, it was hard to watch.
It was hard to watch. So I suppose being a jockey and a sportsman, I suppose you can be quite hard on yourself and can be a harshest critic, which is great because it's a game of inches sometimes. at the same time, you've got to realize where you might have gone wrong, what you could have done, what you didn't do, and then look forward as well. So there's always something to learn in this great game of ours, that's for sure.
Absolutely there is. Karen, thank you so much for your time today. Great to relive some of those amazing days and talk through the European time as well. What we like to do is ask you for a suggestion for a future guest. I say Tommy suggested you. It doesn't have to be someone that you know, you've written for, you're close to, maybe somebody else that you'd just like to hear from in the future as well. any suggestions? And Berla gave me about five when I spoke to him, but you don't have to come at that.
Idol Horse (21:02.958)
A good mate of mine is Stevie Arnold. He was a great mentor for me when I was a young apprentice and I think he'd be a great guest for you as well. you haven't already done him? No, no. He'll be assuming So You Think would be pretty near the top of the list. Yeah, I reckon he'd be a great guest and look forward to hearing what he has to say. I do remember if he was on, I'm going to say it was Racing Racer, I can't remember which one it was, but he came up with a good story when So You Think went to Aiden O'Brien's.
and he called up to try and get the ride. So we'll save that. I'll let him tell it. He'll tell a lot better than that I will. But that's brilliant. Thank you so much. And yeah, when you get one of those Derby wins, you'll have to come back on. We can do that one with you. Beautiful. Thanks, Andrew. All right, great. Thanks, Karen. Thank you for listening in as well and tuning. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode in the future and leave us your suggestions of who you'd like to hear from too. For now though, that's it for the race. We'll see you next time.