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Kevin Kossowan and Paul Rogalski talk about their hit TV series "Wild Harvest" where together with Survivorman Les Stroud they explore the culinary potential of wild ingredients in locations across Canada and the United States. Kevin is a filmmaker and avid outdoorsman who's series "From the Wild" was twice nominated for the prestigious James Beard award. Paul is a renowned gastronomic leader at one of Canadas top ranked restaurants "Rouge" in Calgary.
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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The
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your outdoor adventure.
Here's a quick the
preamble to this
fantastic episode.
Kevin has graciously
extended an opportunity
to watch one episode
of season six of the
hit show From The
Wild, simply use coupon
code Silvercore when
checking out, but hurry,
because it's first
come, first serve until
quantities run out.
If you want to watch
the entire series for
free check out our
social media or website
for more details.
Today, I'm joined by
Kevin Kossowan and
chef Paul Rogalski.
Kevin is a filmmaker,
cinematographer and
creator of the two
time James Beard award
nominated series.
From the wild.
Kevin also offers
foraging walks and
field cookery camps at
his, from the wild base
camp, which is about
a hundred kilometers
north of Edmonton.
Chef Paul Rogalski is
a co-owner and chief
culinary officer at
Calgary's a claimed
Rouge restaurant.
The restaurant has
achieved the prestigious
ranking as one of San
Pellegrino's, 50 best
restaurants in the world.
Together Paul and
Kevin have created the
show wild harvest with
Survivorman Les Stroud,
where they forage
cook and celebrate
Canada's wild foods.
Kevin, Paul, welcome to
The Silvercore Podcast.
Thanks for having us.
You know, Kevin was
kind of funny a lil'
serendipitous, I guess,
but recently I was
talking with Hank Shaw
and we were talking
about his new book Hook
Line and Supper and out
of the blue, without
any knowledge that we
were scheduled to speak.
Hank talks about
cooking trout or as
his Canadian friend,
Kevin Kossowan would
pronounces it, trewt
Yep.
Good old Hank.
Good old Hank.
I didn't know if
that's a Hankism or
what, but I thought
it was kind of funny.
Yeah.
He likes to poke fun at
us Canadians and, uh,
basically, you know,
any linguistics kind of
fun about accents and
the way we say things.
One of the things
that Hank pokes fun
at me about is, um, is
calling, uh, the forest
or the woods, the bush.
So when I say we're.
That's what it's called.
Going to the bush,
he said, the singular
bush, the only one.
That one bush.
You're going to that one.
Yeah.
That's a good Hankism.
Yeah.
Hanks been on From The
Wild a couple of times,
actually we've been, uh,
trout fishing, foraging,
grouse hunting, waterfowl
hunting, actually.
So we've done quite
a few things and I
met Hank Shaw online.
He was one of the, when
I first started writing
about food on the
internet back when that
was the thing a million
years ago, Hank was one
of the first commenters,
um, on my blog.
And so, uh, it's funny
to see him now, you
know, having started
his own and then it
become a gigantic thing.
And him having an
entirely new career
cause he was a political
journalists back
when I first met him.
That's right.
Yeah, funny background,
but weren't you an
accountant by trade
before getting into
what you do now?
No!
I wasn't an accountant,
I was in finance.
I have a, have a commerce
degree and a finance
major and I worked in
finance for 14 years.
So yeah.
Uh, we, uh, there's a
number of us creatives
in the world of food
that have, you know,
business backgrounds
or some type of other
training and end up here
because it's a creative
space that offers a lot.
Well, what
brought you here?
Uh, whoa.
Uh, I'm not sure
we have enough time
for that today.
Um, really just
a deep dive into
the world of food.
Uh, I, I guess I hated
my career, so I was
spending a lot of time
doing anything else
that interested me in
one of those things
was a food and I'd done
some travel in Europe,
a fair bit and kind
of, um, was exploring
their regional cuisines.
Kind of you know, from,
from region to region
and it intrigued the
heck out of me and came
back to Alberta and,
uh, really want us to
dig into, well, what,
what do we have here?
What are the, what
are the farms that are
doing the best jobs?
Who are the local
food artisans?
W what are, what are
the things that make
this place special?
And honestly, that was
like a half decade to
decade long search and.
Wow.
Uh, in, I guess kind
of plopped me why we're
doing so much wild food
production is one of
the things I found that
speaks the most to place
and time in the world of
food is actually getting
outside, outside the
world of agriculture in
greenhouses and control.
And let and, and
interfacing with nature
and then seeing what
exists in that exact
spot at that exact time
when it comes to food.
And, and that's where,
uh, my career has kind of
led me, is to exploring
those moments and
exploring those foods.
Well, how did you and
Paul, how did you guys
meet each other and
come up with this idea
for, for Wild Harvest?
Uh, Kevin, do you want
to go run with that
one or do you want
me to take this one?
Yeah, go ahead.
Uh, Kevin and I met
a few years ago, uh,
just because, you know,
Kevin's love and passion
for the world of food.
Uh, he found himself
working on a lot of local
projects, uh, meeting
chefs, working with chefs
and, uh, we worked on
one with a lot of chefs.
Um, a few that were
visiting from Europe and
local chefs called, uh,
Cook It Raw and Kevin
was capturing it and
really documenting every
moment of that event.
Um, so it was the
first time for us
really to work closely
with each other.
And, uh, I can tell
you one special thing
about Kevin is Kevin
just has this ability
to put everyone at
ease around him.
And, uh, I thought,
man, this guy is, this
guy has got some chops,
but he's also just a
really great person.
So, um, we kind
of kept in contact
since that project.
And, um, Kevin and I also
did, uh, projects, just
a mini project together
where, uh, we took people
foraging in the field.
Um, Kevin captured
a promotional video.
And produced it, uh, for
the restaurant to use.
And, um.
And that was a project
spearheaded by Travel
Alberta actually.
A few years ago, there
was kind of a aggressive
movement in the culinary
tourism space in Alberta
to, um, to, to do that,
to tap into the, the
interesting kind of
forging stuff that was
happening in the province
and pairing foragers
with, uh, chefs right.
Paul, that was kind
of what that is.
Yeah.
What was prompted
since then.
That's kind of fizzled
and we've entered a
pandemic when culinary
tourism isn't a
thing at all anyway.
But yeah, that's how we
bumped into each other.
And Paul, why don't
you fly into, how
did you, how did we
get into the show?
How did we end to
start Wild Harvest?
This is a good, uh,
that this might take
a little bit of time.
Uh, I'll try to be
as brief as possible.
Uh, so a couple of years
ago I was flying in from
PEI where I was, um,
part of an event called
forage, which was a
symposium made up of a
lot of different chefs
from across the country.
And, uh, I was just
flying into Calgary.
I had done the thing
that you're not
supposed to do, but I
turned my cell phone
on before we landed.
And, uh, first message
that popped up was a
text from Les saying,
hey, I don't know what
you're doing, but I'm
in Calgary, I've got
a four-hour layover at
the airport, if you want
to come meet me for a
beer, that'd be great.
So.
Of course, I'm like,
dude, this is insane.
I I'm literally wheels
down, I'm on the tarmac.
Just let me get
my luggage and
I'll meet you.
So we, we touched base,
um, and I I've known Les
for quite a few years.
We met initially on a
project, uh, where we
were both filming down
in Mexico and, and the
idea of a television
series, um, kind of like
this one we're we're,
you know, in the air, um.
Anyways, so Les than
I had had talked about
it again, just catching
up a little bit.
Um, and then a couple of
months later, he reached
out again and said, hey,
I'm coming to Alberta.
And I said,
you know what?
If you're coming
to Alberta, there's
one person I
want you to meet.
So knowing that Kevin,
um, is very good in the
same sort of space as
Les when it comes to
bushcraft and, and, uh,
filming and producing
beautiful final products.
Plus Kevin's a musician
and Les is a musician, I
thought they should meet.
And we had a one
little, um, FaceTime
meeting where I
thought, you know,
it'd be kind of fun.
Uh, to, to get the
conversation going.
Um, initially I thought,
you know, it'd be great
if they worked on a
project together with me
not being in the project.
Um, but that augmented
in a short period of
time to what is now,
you know, a 21 episodes.
In front of 4
billion people paul.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
That's our yeah,
potential audience
right now.
So it's, it's crazy how
things unfolded and where
we're at 20, 21 episodes
in the camp currently.
Wow.
Well, have you been
in front of the
camera before Paul?
A little bit
here and there.
Nothing uh,
nothing major.
Um, my experience would
be more dealing with live
audiences, uh, taking
the stage, uh, trade
shows, that type thing,
a little bit of filming,
uh, with Michael Smith
from the Food Network.
He's, he's a close
buddy of mine.
And, uh, yeah, so
this is a new for me.
Very, very new.
So I've been able to
watch a few of the
episodes that have
come out and you're
on the beach and,
and Les is doing some
foragin' and pointing
things out to you.
Do you have a foraging
background yourself,
Paul, or is this
kind of new to you?
Uh, the answer is I I've
always been interested
in foraging, um, and I've
been basically camping
my, my entire life and
there's things that I've
noticed, you know, oh,
those are wild chives,
so I've taken wild
chives or rose hips, but
just real simple stuff.
Uh, where I am at now
is, um, really in this
steep learning curve
of what is edible, um,
beyond my imagination,
to be honest.
And to be in the field
and have this opportunity
to learn about wild
foraged ingredients,
uh, with Kevin and
Les is probably one
of the greatest things
that I have going in
my life right now.
Right.
Well, you know, I've,
I've got a background
fishing and hunting and
to me, foraging just
wasn't even on the radar.
And my wife is a
chef by trade and
she loves to garden.
She was into foraging,
I'm like that that's
her thing, fair enough.
And it wasn't until
actually going out
with Hank and he took
us on a, on a foraging
walk down in California
there and point note
the abundance of wild
edible food that's
everywhere and learning
from his approach.
I was hooked.
I love it.
And I love watching
your guys' show
because you're learning
some great stuff.
And you guys, you also
have your recipes,
you post them on the
website, so anyone
else can go out.
It's kind of like
a, it seems like a
bit of a black box
challenge for you, Paul.
Here's some surprise
edibles you can eat
it, you won't die.
Go make something.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad you picked
up on that because
it's been very much
that way for me.
Um, not only figuring
out the new ingredients,
but uh, as Kevin will
tell you, camera's
rolling, as I do it.
And, uh, th the kitchen
and changes for me
all the time as well.
So whether I'm
cooking it and, uh,
an outdoor situation
where, you know,
it's live fuel fire.
Uh, but of course,
right at the magic
moment where I need
heat, the fire dies.
Of course.
So that's one of those
things to, to work
around, but we've,
um, been able to
film in various other
kitchens as well.
And each kitchen's
a little bit unique.
So it's not just
the challenge of
the ingredients.
It's the challenge
of knowing how hot
the stove I'm working
on is, is my Coleman
filled with propane?
How hot is the fire?
Is my charcoal ready?
There, there's a lot
of these elements that,
uh, I can say kind of
add to the color and
the heat of the episode.
Man, but you're sure
up for the challenge
that's for sure.
Yeah.
And his track record
is nuts, uh, Les and
I both, you know,
thought, well, he's
going to get it wrong at
least, you know, a good
portion of the time.
And he can't knock it out
of the park all the time.
And, um, I think
his batting average
is extremely high.
I think there's been two
dishes in 20 episodes
that Les was like, hmm, I
think he maybe could have
done better on this one.
But other than that,
this has been, he's
been just killing it.
Wow.
Well, Kevin, is that
you behind the camera,
for most or all of it?
Are you doing most of
the video work there?
Uh, yeah, if it's
not Les behind the
camera, it's me.
It's fantastic.
The cinematography and
then the, the pairing
with the audio and the
sounds, I don't know
what you call it, folly
or foley or whatever.
Um, it's a really
good job um.
Thanks.
One thing that I
thought was interesting
was, um, you use the
camera and you use
your skills to not
promote the Kevin brand.
You use it to
work with others.
And I think you
actually, at one point
came out, you said
that your goal is to
foster collaboration
and innovation and
industry development.
That's pretty cool.
You don't see that a lot.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
I mean, whether I was
actually, it was a kind
of a steady conversation
real early on is do I
end up as an on-camera
character and, and it
really didn't need it.
Um, but the fun part
that I get to play, uh,
that I think is probably
really unique and no one
would really understand
is, uh, I get to go in
the field with Stroud
and, and look for things.
And he and I both forge.
So we both know a
lot about plants and
then I get to kind of
play in that space.
And then, uh, when
it's time for Paul to
jump in the kitchen and
he and I are talking
menu and ingredients
and tasting stuff and
figuring out, okay,
where do we take this?
How do we make this
fit for the show?
I guess, I mean, the
show really is, is
obviously a priority,
but really it really is,
we're trying to make,
we're trying to make a
dish that Les will enjoy
because fundamentally
that's what the camera's
being pointed at.
So it's been a
fun challenge.
I get to, I get to kind
of play in both of those
spaces without having
my face on camera, which
is just fine by me.
I've never been the
kind of obsessive about
having to be on camera.
I have to elaborate
a little bit, so I'm
very lucky that Kevin
is an accomplished
cook as well.
And, uh, his
palette is also very
similar to mine.
So where I feel for Kevin
is he has to deal with
me as I work through
dishes, creatively,
where it's like,
oh, I got this idea.
And then Kevin will
be like, okay, start
working on the camera,
angles around that.
And then I change
it 15 times.
And then at the very,
very last second,
camera's rolling.
I'm like, whoa, hang
on one last little
detail or five.
Uh, two artists
working together.
I tell ya.
Yeah.
Well the, there is a
lot of, uh, hunting
shows and foraging
shows and, and, and
cooking shows out there.
But you guys take a
perspective that is
rather unique, I think.
You've rather
than have it.
You have a very
cinematic field, how it's
filmed, which is great.
You guys aren't decked
out head to toe and
camouflage, and it's not
about the process of,
it's not about the actual
acquisition of the food.
The goal is not that
rather it's the full
process and the respect
for the food . All the
way through, which I
find very refreshing.
At the very beginning,
the work that goes into
get it, the respect
for how you care for
it and prepare it.
And then the end
result at the very end.
Um, do you see many
other shows out there
that are kind of doing
a similar thing or is
this kind of trying to
break new ground here?
That's a good question.
You're asking two
guys that don't
watch a lot of TV.
Yeah.
I hear ya.
I would say that, um, my
entire career has been
built around um, pushing
the boundaries of what
people are, are used to
seeing and, or, or, um,
kind of removing the
filters that industry
applies and brought that
broadcast industry and
the food industry apply
to how we see food.
So, uh, for, From The
Wild, that meant, uh,
yeah, we're showing
you how, uh, an animals
butchered or gutted,
which, um, that that's
changed over time, but
From The Wilds and season
eight and in season
one MeatEater wasn't
on Netflix yet, or it
was just about to be.
And there was really no
content, uh, in the, in
that space of, of, uh,
most hunting shows where
the grab the antlers
and show the rock and
roll the credits that
was hunting shows.
Um, and, and we really,
as someone who grew
up hunting wanted to
expand that into, um,
you know, all the stuff
that happens after that,
we, and in some episodes
we actually do that.
We just start rolling
and there's not an animal
on the ground already.
And what happens after
that is, is the show.
And so that's not
for everybody.
I get that because
the industry's built
this interest in, in,
in, uh, 30 bucks in 30
minutes kind of thing.
But when it comes to
Wild Harvest, it's
not much different.
It really is about
approaching an ecosystem
and half the time, and
Paul can have my back
on this one, in season
two, we went into the,
flying into shooting it
and have no idea what
we were going to do.
Like two, three
days prior.
We just didn't know.
And then you walk
into the field and
go, okay, well,
what's, what's here.
What can we do?
Um, and then it
really becomes very
ingredient centric.
And I think that's not,
when folks go looking
for stuff, wild food
things, whether you're
hunting, fishing, or
foraging, they're usually
looking for like, a
trophy, like a morale
or a white tail buck or
a trout or something.
And I think this really
embraces the trophy
is the stuff that's
on offer by nature.
And you don't, and on
your, uh, being able
to use your skillset.
And your knowledge to
just roll with whatever
happens to be on offer
and make something
delicious out of it.
And that's what Wild
Harvest is entirely about
is just wheeling into
an ecosystem and seeing
what's there and then
making is beautiful and
tasty plate as we can.
And so those two shows
are highly aligned in
that side, on that front.
What are some of the
areas that you've been
dropped into that have
been the hardest to
harvest wild food in?
Paul?
Any thoughts?
Uh.
Okay.
I'll I'll spit out one.
Think about this Paul.
One of them was actually
shooting, um, the mussels
scene in Oregon because
we were on the coast and
that's the first time in
my entire career that I
almost lost my a cam and
all of our cards in it,
falling into the ocean.
Cause the rogue
waves were coming in
and pounding us on
that, on that scene.
And so that was tough.
Uh, the desert,
maybe Paul, that was
pretty tough too.
And in some ways.
Yeah.
It's um, it's interesting
because there there's
challenges of, of course
where you're harvesting
from, but then there's
things that also come
into play, which would
be heat as an example
of it just being out and
getting beaten by the
sun we're filming in the
sun and, uh, you know,
hydration, just some
of those basic things.
I think some of the
harvest items that,
um, I have found to
be difficult would
be, uh, something like
beaked hazlenut, where
cracking and just trying
to get enough meat
out of a green nut.
Um, you know, it's
like, okay, let's
dedicate a bunch of
time to this one, the
actual harvesting of
it, wasn't so bad,
but the processing
of it definitely
took some time.
Uh, and I think.
We're kind of lucky
because a lot of the,
I'll say this from my, my
side of things, but when
it comes to difficult
harvest, Les is the guy
that actually is a, been
getting in and getting
dirty and getting cold
and, you know, trying
to dig out rhizomes with
a pickax out of gravel.
Yeah like pond lilies.
Yes!
Yeah pond lily tubers.
Pond lily tubers
out of the bottom
of like a lake.
And then, uh, another
one was actually
arrowleaf balsam root.
We did recently
in the, Okanagan.
A beautiful plant,
really hard to work
with in the kitchen.
Um, but required a
bunch of digging and
some rock and stuff
so, I don't know.
There's, it's, it's
interesting there,
uh, There's such
a wide variety.
It's kinda hard to, hard
to choose what might've
been a challenging one.
They're all kind
of challenging.
Even like maybe
making maple syrups
no easy task.
That's it takes forever.
Yeah.
Well, those, those
rhizomes, that was
from the, uh, the
cat tails, right?
Yeah.
That's right.
How were they?
I've never tasted
those before they,
how did they taste?
Not like anything,
to be honest.
Um, once they were
processed, they really
just came, uh, to light
that they were a starch
and used as a starch.
So as a, a flour
additive, or, um, a sauce
thickening engagement.
Uh, we, we had a
chance to, and this
is what I really
value about the show.
Kevin and I spend hours
in the kitchen just
learning about stuff.
It's like, okay,
experiment, number one.
I've never seen
this before.
Let's, let's see how
this, um, in the case
of the cat tail rhizome,
how it works in a slurry
environment, how does it
work once we dehydrate it
and powder it and really
play around with it.
But in that case, in
particular, it was so
neutral that you could
add it to anything
and wouldn't even know
what that it was there.
Kind of like cornstarch.
Yeah.
If you had to compare
it to something,
is that fair, Paul?
Yeah, I think.
Kinda.
Yeah.
Or rice flour maybe,
somewhere in between
the two of them.
The one thing that I
remember being one of
the surprising things
to work with was pond
lily tuber, which is
kind of pulled out the
same way that you pull
out a cat tail rhizome.
And I know Kevin referred
to it a little bit
earlier, a little hard
to harvest and oh man,
it's not tasty at all.
It's it's the opposite
of cat tail rhizome,
which is user-friendly.
This stuff tasted
like, uh, open sewer
and smelt like an open
sewer on a hot day.
I can't even describe it.
That's a good
description.
Yeah.
And, and despite that, I
think the crazy part is
despite that you figured
out a way to use it in
a dish that actually
made a lot of sense and
where it was kind of
interesting because this
is the show certainly
isn't about shock and awe
and look how disgusting
a wild ingredient we
can use, we can put
into something nice.
It's actually
quite the opposite.
We're looking for nice
stuff as often as we can.
But, uh, even that ended
up kind of taking the
place of kind of had
an MSG kind of note.
It really performed us
salinity kind of function
in a dish, which is,
was really unexpected.
So kind of like Paul
mentioned, uh, some
of the biggest rewards
on the project have
been the opportunity
to learn and take the
time and have, you know,
weeks in the field in
production to actually
learn about these things
and, and dig in in ways
that you would, never
would casually at home.
So kind of a luxury
that way being on
the, on the project.
Well, how long does it
usually take to film
a typical episode?
Two days.
Okay.
You just drop in.
What's that?
They're quick, it's
a day, we sh we
allocate a day too.
Uh, me filming
less forging for
the ingredients.
So finding the
ingredients and, and
getting them in, in hand.
And then, uh, we usually
let, at the end of that
day, let Paul know what's
up and, uh, and show
him the ingredients.
And then the next
morning it really is,
paul's getting the
kitchen, whatever is
cooking spaces ready.
And then we film kind
of like a mid day
meal and then kind
of a dinner meal.
And then that's,
and that's the show.
So it's a, it's
actually tremendously
quick to produce.
Um, one of the advantages
of actually having
three guys who are
really good at, at,
um, rolling with it and
creating on the fly.
And another advantage
of having a show that's
not highly contrived
and highly designed.
Um, it really is flexible
to whatever is happening,
including the weather,
including whatever.
That's just the
nature of, you
know, going outside
and things happen.
And yeah, so that's
really, really lucky
in that respect.
So Paul, if I wanted to
go out and do a little
foraging and I cook up
a meal, and I didn't
quite know where I was
going to go or what
I was going to find.
Uh, what sort of things,
what sort of advice
would you give me and
what sort of, uh, uh,
equipment should I be
bringing in with myself
to hopefully be as
successful as possible?
Uh, what's I think
is brilliant to me
is you don't actually
have to go far.
Uh, I, I think there,
the notion that I had
before this project was,
oh, have to get deep
into the woods and that's
not the case at all.
So you can go into
your backyard, you
can go into the alley.
If you can find a
place that, you know,
maybe a little bit
sheltered from some
debris and pesticides
and that sort of thing.
So you can really
harvest anywhere.
Uh, as far as tools
go, I think overall,
I always bring a nice
small knife with me.
So it's something
that I can cut with
a pair of scissors.
And, uh, I don't have one
yet, but Les is in the
process of developing,
it's called a hookah.
No.
A hori hori.
A hori hori.
That's it.
Yeah, a hori hori, which
is like this heavy duty,
uh, blade on one side
that that kind of is
like a cross between
a, a garden spade, like
a little garden shovel
and a knife and that.
Oh cool.
Yeah.
That thing is
unbelievable.
Uh, I can tell you if
you use it, it just,
once you're going
to want to buy one.
I can jump in here too
to say that the, uh,
the one thing that I
think we both, we lack
in the field and that,
uh, people want to
take people out into
the field to teach
them about forging.
It's simple
stuff like bags.
Like you need to put
stuff in things, in
something and, uh, in
some cases, uh, and it's,
it's difficult because
it's a moving target.
In some cases it might
be crayfish in the creek
that you found, well,
that needs something that
can handle that, that's
a bit wet and might
give him some oxygen.
And in some cases it's
like little tiny things
that you might need a
little bowl or a little
bag, and some cases
it's gigantic amounts
of you know, nettle,
or cow parsnip, or
fireweed, where you have
like bouquets of it, a
big bunches of things.
So it's a bit at that.
That moving target
makes it a bit tricky
to kind of advise
people what to bring,
but you definitely need
things to put stuff in
because when you do find
stuff, you find a lot.
Like when I go from
mushrooms, I fill my
vehicle multiple times.
So I need lots
of baskets.
not one.
Love it.
So I really liked the
episode, obviously on,
From The Wild watching
Hank Shaw, cause I
know Hank and had a
good laugh at how much
he complained about
being cold and tired.
And what I thought
was interesting.
Kevin is that you
say that you are a
preacher in defense
of uncomfortable.
Oh yeah.
That there's a value
to being uncomfortable.
Yeah.
Um.
You still feel that way?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
There's a, there's
a film called WALL-E
that I thought was
one of the most genius
films ever created.
And in this little
animated film, uh,
humans are relegated to
sitting in homeostasis
and you can watch
the movie and figure
out what that means.
But, um, I honestly feel
like you're not, I don't
live my best life, uh,
sitting on my couch.
That's not when I'm
experiencing building
memories and learning and
becoming better connected
with my planet or my
friends or whatever.
So I, I, I quite
embrace the district
of homeostasis and
reminding yourself that
you're alive and, um,
reminding yourself that
you're a hot blooded
creature that is capable
all of doing things.
I think that that feels
good basically, but it's
also good for your body.
It's good for your brain.
Uh, so yeah, it's funny.
Uh, we put Hank
in some pretty.
Um, some situations
he's not used to, let's
just put it that way.
I think, I think there's
a bit of a difference
between going to an
go go into, I guess,
guides, guided lodge
kind of scenarios, you
know, in common in the
US and then us crazy
Canadians who are like,
let's walk 10 miles into
the bush up a river.
And where there's
nobody and nothing
and sleep under a tarp
on, in a thunderstorm.
Yeah.
So that's, that's the
kind of stuff that
we put Hank through.
That is a bit bad on
me, but in some ways
I feel, I feel fine
about it because really
we all need a bit of
a kick in the butt the
odd time that we're more
capable than we think of.
And we can, we're
more resilient than
we, we feel we are.
And sometimes we're
just not as prepared
as we should be.
So that means everything
from the kinds of
things that Les Stroud
has spent a lot of his
career teaching people
about, uh, to just basics
around clothing and back
country equipment, uh,
which doesn't need to
be a lot, but it needs
to be something so that,
you know, uh, you know,
how to, how to take care
of yourself outside.
Well, Kevin, you take
a lot of people out and
teach them about foraging
and you introduce them
to living off the land.
You introduced them to
hunting and fishing.
And I think at one point
you said a few years
back, you made the very
conscious decision to
start a new hunter on
small game, like grouse,
as opposed to starting
them on big game.
And I think that's a
very wise decision.
But I'm wondering, is
there a story behind why
he say he took me that
very conscious decision?
Yeah, because
I'm an idiot.
And, um, early on,
when we were producing
From The Wild, we just,
you know, any, any
friend that expressed
interest in hunting,
we thought, oh yeah,
we'll take them out.
Like, what do you
want to go for?
And they would, um,
well, you know, kind of
natively and genuinely,
it was just one people
to have a fun time.
And what would
interest you?
The problem is, is that
optically, uh, they would
watch a series be like,
I want to go after black
bears, which was really
common and big game or
a moose, or they want
to hunt grizzly bears
and wolves or whatever.
It's just funny what
people kind of feel
like they can do
right off the get go.
So we actually introduced
a lot of first-time
hunters into, into bear
hunting in the spring.
Uh, and while it's
doable, I just don't
think it's, uh, it was
after having done it
for two, three years.
I realized, man,
this is a mistake.
Um, the skills, the
skillset that you need
to hunt a black bear
is, is in the advanced
level, uh, for a variety
of reasons, including
that they can kill you.
And, um, so there
there's that.
And then, um, you know,
have having introduced
some people to something
as benign is walking the
roads for grouse, uh,
that seemed like a lot
better place to start.
Your life's a
lot less at risk.
There's a lot less
that can go wrong.
And so, uh, I wish I had,
uh, maybe thought of that
little nugget of wisdom
sooner, but yeah, I would
advise anybody mentoring
people in the world
of hunting or fishing,
like start, start small.
Start easy, start
with easy wins so that
it's fun for people
rather than bunk.
Like don't go on a
mountain sheep hunt as
your first hunting trip
ever go for something a
little, a little easier.
Um, yeah, so I don't
know, we learned kind
of the hard way and
make some mistakes.
And one of the things
about the show though,
and I would say Wild
Harvest is the same.
Is we're not, not
afraid to make mistakes
on camera, not afraid
to have lived through
some of our learning on
camera, uh, and to be
better people and better
outdoorsmen, uh, you
know, a few shows down
the road than we started.
There's no shame in
that in my opinion.
I like that.
Now Paul, I know you've
talked about overlooked
or hated type of wild
foods that are often
treated like weeds, are
sprayed with chemicals
are destroyed because
it's interfering
with crops that are
commercially growing.
Uh, once people start
to really, they watch
Wild Harvest and they
start embracing what
they can actually find.
And like you say, you
can go in your back
alley, you can, you can
forage on the sidewalk
really, if you, if you
know what to look for.
Uh, as a chef, what
would be some of your
favorite wild foraged
foods that, uh, you
would like to cook with?
Oh, that is, um.
That's a good question.
Yeah, because there's
so many, and I think
the past, um, year of my
education when it comes
to forged ingredients.
Uh, I can say that
almost everything that,
uh, we have brought
in from, from the wild
has been delicious and
it all has a place.
Um, there's definitely
some considerations which
would be based on volume.
And some things are
definitely easier to, to
get, uh, a large volume
of products without
damaging the environment.
Uh, fireweed would
be one of those
things, uh, especially
this time of year.
Uh, and that's the big
thing you don't want to
go out and harvest and
damage the environment.
Which, uh, I think
fundamentally
changes how I think
of the ingredients.
Uh, as an example
of something like a
delicate, beautiful
little flower called
spring beauty is
delicious, I wish I had
buckets full, but that's
not the way they grow.
So it's capitalizing
on things that do have
volume attached to
them and serving them
in a way that I can
showcase the abundance.
Or um, really dialing it
down and having things
that are more dear, uh,
and the way they grow
and challenge them the
way they grow and, and
really tell that story
on a plate as well.
Uh, and aside from that,
really the, the big thing
that I've learned is a
lot of the elements, um,
when it comes to flavor,
uh, that wild ingredients
present are very similar
to what you have in
commercialized production
of, of produce.
Uh, there's some,
some ingredients
that are better.
There's some that are
sweet and, uh, it's,
it's really, as a
skillset, uh, working
with wild ingredients,
it's no different
than working with a
typical ingredients
that you could buy
in a supermarket.
One of your favorites,
Paul, I'm going
to interject.
Uh, I know is milkweed.
And that's a great
example of what you're
talking about, where
it's a plant you
have to go easy on,
uh, for a variety of
sustainability reasons
is, uh, surrounding
the Monarch butterfly
and other things.
But, uh, holy heck, is
that a delicious piece of
green vegetable, right?
But like, and again, to
your point, it tastes
a lot, like you would
expect of a delicious
green vegetable.
It's not going to
challenge people's
understanding of food.
Um, cat tail also
with it's cu, kind of
cucumbery spicy notes.
Um, really familiar.
It's not much of a
reach, for your palette.
Now I wouldn't say
many of the ingredients
we have, spring
beauty, the little,
little tubers blow.
It tastes like petite,
like shockingly,
like potatoes.
So they're not, again,
just not, not as, not
as weird as you think.
Whenever people
think, oh, wild food,
oh, that's weird.
Or, oh, forge,
that's weird.
I think, yeah,
blueberries, raspberries,
strawberries.
There's lots of things
that we know in the world
of food in agriculture
that are from the wild.
And, uh, and
they're not weird.
It's not nearly as
bizarre as you think.
Yeah.
And then there's
rock tripe.
So there's some
weird things.
Rock tripe is, uh, yeah,
that was the challenge.
Well, I really like
the fact that you
guys, I emphasize
ethical harvesting.
You're not just going
out there, wipe it out
a full patch and you're
drawing the connection to
how this is a food source
and an important part of
the biology and the, the
makeup for other animals.
Like you're just
saying there, the
Monarch butterfly.
I got to imagine that
putting a show like Wild
Harvest, is going to have
a two pronged approach
of number one, educating
people, but it's also
going to encourage
people to get out there
and start foraging.
Have, have you noticed,
and like, particularly
with COVID, I've been
finding there's more
and more interest,
people talking to
me about hunting and
foraging and fishing and
being self-sufficient.
Have you, have you
guys noticed there's
a marked increase in
the demand for this
kind of knowledge?
And also, have you
noticed that your, maybe
some of your favorite
spots are starting to get
wiped out because of new
people getting into it?
Well, I'd say last year
I noticed a big bump up.
We started seeing like
trailer, you know,
uh, campgrounds that
didn't exist before in
the, on crown land in
the middle of nowhere.
Uh, and that be
those quite common.
But, um, I would say
this year, we're finding
the complete opposite.
Why?
I don't know, it's
like people burned out
on that and I'm like,
oh, maybe this isn't
so bad and I don't
have to be so smart.
And so self-sufficient,
um, but yeah, I,
I, I have a few
opinions on this.
Um, and we've, again,
covered a lot of this
on camera, but, uh,
I'm personally of
the opinion, and I
know Les is largely
philosophically aligned
and Paul probably too.
That uh, our objective
is to introduce people
to these species so
that they actually
care about them.
And in, so doing in
caring about them and
knowing about them
might care a little
more about how we do
our forestry or how we
do some of our other
resource extraction.
Um, for example, uh,
oh boy, uh, chaga is
a perfect example.
I've been, I had my
hand slapped on social
media for pictures
of harvesting chaga,
and people like to
really talk about the
sustainability of chaga
harvest and chaga is
a fungus, uh, kind of
like a coffee tasting.
Delicious, good for you,
antioxidant fungus, it's
really, really great.
I love it, we
use it at home.
But my, my knee jerk
reaction to that is.
When you use your paper
towel today, or your
toilet paper, did you
discuss with it, the
sustainability of the
chaga harvest and the
clear cuts that generated
those paper products are
the ones that we shipped,
shipped, shipped to
China or somewhere else?
Uh, we don't, we
don't think about
sustainability.
You know, people
get pretty fussy
about sustainability
with forging.
But then we just
completely like mow the
boreal forest or, or
any other ecosystem or
completely destroy the
grasslands ecosystem
with agriculture and
fence lines and such,
and don't really think
anything of that.
So to me to get to too,
in my face about, uh,
sustainable foraging,
when we have all those
other practices as
a species is, uh, is
just a moot point.
There's just, it's,
there's so much bigger
issues to discuss.
And then did I pick
the chaga at the top
of the tree and the
bottom of the tree?
It's funny what people
get their knickers in
a twist over isn't it.
Yeah.
And how blind they are
to the fact that they
live in a wild space.
You know, I live in the
city, it's in a wild
space, it's an ecosystem.
It is.
People don't think
of that, but that's
how it works.
And, uh, yeah, and,
and the impact and the
general day-to-day impact
that they have on the
environment, people
are pretty blind to.
Which is another reason
that I think encouraging
people to get outside
and explore what's in
their back alley, like
Paul, to Paul's point.
If they find out holy
crap, I just saw someone
spray right where we
pick our dandelions
every spring that makes
you not feel happy.
And then you maybe you'll
do something about it.
Maybe you'll maybe you'll
say something, maybe
being our policy will
change so that we're not,
you know, doing, making
stupid moves uh, uh,
in, in our environment
just to suit aesthetics
or something shallow,
and maybe we'll have
a broader perspective
on how we interact
with the environment.
So that's my
take on that.
So yeah, we'll encourage
people to forge more.
Yeah, there'll,
they'll have a bigger
impact on wild things.
Cool, great.
Because then when there's
a permit to go out to a
forestry management area,
that's going to wipe out
5,000 hectares of forest.
Maybe someone will
stand up and say, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Maybe not.
It that's one thing
I find the show does
very well, is it shows
how we are all apart
of the environment and
it's not, hey, there's
nature and there's me.
Yeah.
There's nature.
And here's the plants
and there's the animals
and there's man or human.
Well I'm glad
that comes across.
Oh, yeah, no, it does.
It does.
And it's a, it's like,
um, and I mentioned it
before Shane Mahoney,
uh, back east, he's a
prolific conservationist
and a hell of an order.
And he says, you know,
I'm quite often, I'm,
I'm asked about how can
I square myself with
the fact that I love
animals and that I hunt.
And he says, it's,
it's not a question
of there being a
different set of rules
for them in a different
set of rules for me.
The question is I am one
of them, or the fact is I
am one of them and we all
work together and we have
to take a look at how
that all comes into play.
And that's, that's one
of the takeaways that I
see on, on Wild Harvest.
Yeah.
I'm glad that
comes across.
We absolutely are part
of the ecosystem that
you, that we live in and
every decision you make
every day, impacts that.
And if you don't want to
consume a living thing,
then you choose death.
Like as humans too, to
live, we're killing a
species of something.
And I'm not very
speciesist as Paul knows,
it doesn't matter to me,
whether it's a rabbit
or a deer or a bear
or a fish or a plant.
Or a fruit or something,
like something's life
is ending and it's, you
know what, to be honest,
in, in the shooting of
the show, Les and Paul
and I talk a lot more
about this thing gets
edited into the show.
Right Paul?
We talk about it a lot.
It's, it's.
Yep, daily.
It's really present in
everybody bloody episode
where we're talking about
interestingly, like just
the ethics of harvesting
a tree or the ethics of
harvesting a plant and
how we approach nature
and what we, you know,
kind of how maybe at what
we should be doing rather
than what we're doing.
And so anyway, Paul,
do you wanna speak
to that at all?
Like how has that
been important to you?
Uh, I, it's, it's great
to hear, um, that your,
your take has really
been what we've been
desiring from a project.
Uh, and I think one of
the biggest wins and
I'll, I know that when
Kevin, Les and I are
in the field, I mean,
it's, it is organic,
it's legitimate,
it's unscripted.
Um, it is just
capturing that moment.
But the way that the
story's been told
when it comes to the
edit, I think really
shows that very well.
And I also have to add,
um, the, the timeliness
of this with COVID.
We, we didn't start
this knowing that
COVID was going to be
a thing and everyone
would just was going
to be dealing with it.
But, um, what's been one
of the most satisfying
things is to read some
of the emails coming
in from, uh, people
that have been watching
the show and, and
quite a few people.
And this is what
shocks me and Kevin.
Has heard me say
this a few times.
We've we've got both
male and female people
saying your show
brought me to tears.
It's about time there's
something like this.
I felt connected, I felt
part of a bigger picture
watching your show
and really that that's
kind of the ambition.
We want people to go
outdoors and to breathe
the air, to take a
moment acknowledge where
they are in this world.
And, and who we are in
this world, what, what
we are as a species,
um, might be a little
bit further down a
rabbit hole that the
show doesn't speak of.
But we do, as Kevin was
saying, when, when we
are together and we're
talking about things
and the connectivity of
it all, um, how plants
do, you know, there's
scientific proof,
proof that plants do.
Communicate to each
other, that the forest
looks after the forest.
Um, we're, we're all
tuned into to this world.
And you know, when the,
the number one battle
right now, um, for our
species is fighting
algorithms and the
polarization of, of,
uh, politics and how
something like COVID
instead of bringing
people together, seems
that it's divided
people in many ways.
And that's, that's not.
Really the place that
we want to exist.
We want to tell a story
about togetherness
and we are a part of
a huge collective and
our energies do melt
and we do combine and
we are small pieces
in a greater sum.
And, um, yeah, with
all that being said,
uh, again, to, to hear
you say that Travis,
that, that you picked
up on that from, from
watching the show,
means a lot to, to us.
And, and just one more
thing is to, to Les
Stroud's credit, um, he
is, uh, highly attentive
to these concepts and
he knows that there's,
we have to dribble
it into the show.
We can't just hammer
this in, like be
preachy about it.
So let's, let's slide
those little lines in
there that make people
aware that this is
where our head's at.
And without, uh, making
the show, you know,
to too spiritual or
esoteric or a high
concept and let's try
and keep it like on
it's feet on the ground.
So I give him credit
for that because we
could spend a lot more
time diving into this
uh, but, uh, instead
we do it in moderation.
You know, I think there's
probably a desire out
there, in moderation.
I think there is a
desire, desire there
for people to, uh,
to hear more of that.
Maybe, maybe it's not on
the Wild Harvest show.
I mean, you got to speak
to that algorithm and you
got to speak to, if you
want to get the message
out, you want to be able
to do it in a way where
people will actually be
watching and listening.
But, uh, I wonder if a
Wild Harvest, uh, around
the campfire wild harvest
outtakes, or just those
conversations that happen
outside, I think are,
are very important.
And I think there is
a desire that people
want to hear about that
because that whole idea
of interconnectedness
and, uh, the spirituality
of all of that, the
esoteric sort of concept
behind all of that.
Is something that has
sort of been missing
from the conversation
for, for some time.
And I think when I talk
to other people, I do
get the sense that there
is a craving for that.
Yeah.
And that there's an
you talk, you don't
have to talk to money
outdoorsmen with a lot
of experience that, to,
to find that, um, that
spirituality seep in
again, that discussion.
Spirituality that would
have existed a few you
know, a few hundred
years ago by default
in any, you know, any
group of people that
live connected to the
outside and connected
to the world in a
very different way.
Um, yeah, we certainly
went through a disconnect
period, but I don't, I
don't disagree with you.
There's an
appetite for it.
I would say we dive a
little deeper into it
in From The Wild, as
far as challenging, kind
of some of the ideas.
Uh, like challenging,
lots of ideas,
everything from like
the militarization of
hunting with camouflage
and night vision and.
Drones.
Semi-automatic
weapons and drones.
Yeah.
To, um, you know, to, to
those kinds of things,
those kinds of concepts
about our connectedness
to nature and that,
uh, and the oneness
of, of the whole thing.
So, uh, we do, we do
dabble it in that series
because we have, uh,
you know, I don't know,
just kind of a broader
mandate, I suppose.
And so it, it, it does
get found there, but I
don't disagree with you.
There's probably an
entire series that
needs to be built
just around that idea.
Well, is there any,
I'm looking at the time
here and a conscious
of the listeners want
to make sure that,
uh, on their drive in
they're able to get most
of the conversation.
Uh, is there anything
else that we should
be touching on?
Oh, I don't know.
Uh, Kevin, can you
think of anything?
Uh, nope.
No, we've covered
a lot of ground.
Um, I'll leave it in
squarely in your, in your
lap Travis, as far as
what you want to cover.
Okay.
I, if people want to
watch your show, uh, how,
how can they do that?
I'll dive into that.
Um, Wild Harvest is
currently airing on
400 plus PBS stations
in the United States.
Uh, so it's being aired
by American public
television all over
the place, uh, on PBS.
And, um, so it's there,
it's about to air, um,
on National Geographic,
Pacific, Asia Pacific.
Uh, so it'll be in that
market for a while,
and these are fairly
long licensing terms.
So.
Uh, the show will get
looped by, you know,
different stations
at different times.
So the timing isn't
exactly, you know,
a specific thing.
That's hard to pin down
for folks, but they'll
have to look it up in
their, in their region.
Um, From The wild is on,
on, uh, Vimeo on demand
and always has been.
So that's, uh, eat
most easily found
at our website, uh,
FromTheWild.ca has
all the links to
all the seasons.
We've got seven of those
being, uh, kind of up
and ready to watch now.
And am I missing
anything, Paul?
Uh, YouTube.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they're just,
they're on this uh,
Survivorman, Les Stroud
Survivorman, I think
is the YouTube channel
and my right Paul?
Yep.
And then there's a
playlist, uh, there with
the wild, Wild Harvest
being aired in, or
aired, or, uh, available
online where we're not
geo blocked, uh, which
is a term that means
that if you're being
aired, for example, in
the United States, we
can't air that on YouTube
in the United States.
So that's available
in Canada, on YouTube
and other countries.
Excellent.
Well, Paul, Kevin,
thank you very much
for being on The
Silvercore Podcast.
I really enjoyed speaking
with the two of you.
Yeah.
Likewise.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, me too.
It was a pleasure.